Obama's Scuzzy Math

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Apparently Barack Obama's repudiation of "politics as usual" (a claim that looks less believable by the hour) does not, alas, include eschewing one of the most irritating tics of the modern presidency: Policy analysis by individual anecdote. Here's one sliver from his contradiction-fueled press conference last night (italics mine):

The first step we took was to pass a recovery plan to jump-start job creation and put money in people's pockets. This plan's already saved the jobs of teachers and police officers. It's creating construction jobs to rebuild roads and bridges.

And yesterday, I met with a man whose company is reopening a factory outside of Pittsburgh that's rehiring workers to build some of the most energy-efficient windows in the world.

New anecdote proves it! But now look at what happens when a reporter asks him about hiking taxes on charitable giving by upper-income donors:

Weird science

QUESTION: […] Are you reconsidering your plan to cut the interest rate deduction for mortgages and for charities? And do you regret having proposed that in the first place?

OBAMA: No, I think it's—I think it's the right thing to do, where we've got to make some difficult choices. Here's what we did with respect to tax policy. What we said was that, over the last decade, the average worker, the average family have seen their wages and incomes flat. Even in times where supposedly we were in the middle of an economic boom, as a practical matter, their incomes didn't go up. And so, well, we said, "Let's give them a tax cut. Let's give them some relief, some help, 95 percent of American families."

Now, for the top 5 percent, they're the ones who typically saw huge gains in their income. I—I fall in that category. And what we've said is, for those folks, let's not renew the Bush tax cuts, so let's go back to the rates that existed back in—during the Clinton era, when wealthy people were still wealthy and doing just fine, and let's look at the—the level at which people can itemize their deductions.

And what we've said is: Let's go back to the rate that existed under Ronald Reagan. People are still going to be able to make charitable contributions. It just means, if you give $100 and you're in this tax bracket, at a certain point, instead of being able to write off 36 percent or 39 percent, you're writing off 28 percent.

Now, if it's really a charitable contribution, I'm assuming that that shouldn't be the determining factor as to whether you're giving that $100 to the homeless shelter down the street. And so this provision would affect about 1 percent of the American people. They would still get deductions. It's just that they wouldn't be able to write off 39 percent. […]

I think it is a realistic way for us to raise some revenue from people who've benefited enormously over the last several years. It's not going to cripple them. They'll still be well-to-do. And, you know, ultimately, if we're going to tackle the serious problems that we've got, then, in some cases, those who are more fortunate are going to have to pay a little bit more.

QUESTION: It's not the well-to-do people. It's the charities. Given what you've just said, are you confident the charities are wrong when they contend that this would discourage giving?

OBAMA: Yes, I am. I mean, if you look at the evidence, there's very little evidence that this has a significant impact on charitable giving. I'll tell you what has a significant impact on charitable giving, is a financial crisis and an economy that's contracting. And so the most important thing that I can do for charitable giving is to fix the economy, to get banks lending again, to get businesses opening their doors again, to get people back to work again. Then I think charities will do just fine.

See how that works? A data point sample size* of one is enough to prove that a monster spending program is working. But a data point sample size of several–that is, of all the charities that have plausibly concluded that taxing their donors more will result in lower donations (or, as economist Martin Feldstein puts it in the Washington Post today, in an effective "transfer [of] more than $7 billion a year from the nation's charitable institutions to the federal government")–well, that's not significant, because it only affects that 1 percent, and besides, we're not sure if what they're doing is really a charitable deduction.

This math ain't just fuzzy, it's bullshit on toast. In this and several other instances last night (and last week, and last month), Obama has shown he's willing, eager even, to convert measurements from apples to oranges to bicycles whenever it best suits his needs, all while casting aspersions on those who would point out his double and triple standards. And no, having the federal government slosh $100 million more to its charities of choice does not fill that $7 billion hole, let alone evince an appreciation that the font of most American charity is and should always be the private sector.

* Thanks to pedantic grad student Warty for the edit.

NEXT: Atlas, or At Least a Rightly Pissed-Off A.I.G. Employee, Shrugs

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  1. Has the media descended yet on “the man from Pittsburgh” to investigate every inch of his claim?

  2. Has the media descended yet on “the man from Pittsburgh” to investigate every inch of his claim?

    Nah, the word of the Messiah is sufficient unto itself.

  3. I am sure the state run media will be all over this guy creech. He probably has a divorce on his record. He may own a gun. He might have failed to make a tax payment at some point in his life.

  4. I met with a man whose company is reopening a factory outside of Pittsburgh that’s rehiring workers to build some of the most energy-efficient windows in the world.

    He said demand was skyrocketing in light of my stimulus plan to break all the windows in the world.

  5. I would like to enter a semantic argument with Obama here: You dont deduct your tax rate % of the donation. You deduct the entire donation.

    The deduction comes off of income.

    It is not a tax credit after taxes are calculated, it is an adjustment to taxable income.

    Every time I hear him make this argument, it just makes him sound stupid. Or devious. Or both.

    Im going with both.

  6. Dumbest President Ever.

  7. Obama talks of building community and renewing hope in America, then undercuts the very organizations who work to those ends every day — and have since long before the feds stepped in to try their hand at the task.

    Shouldn’t we have expected this?

  8. I don’t think he is devious Rob. I think he is just that dumb and doesn’t really understand how the tax system works. If he were being devious the semantic mistake would get him somewhere. But I don’t see where it gets him. I think he is just stupid.

  9. How do I use HTML to strike through the word “sound” in robc’s 10:24am post?

  10. Has the media descended yet on “the man from Pittsburgh” to investigate every inch of his claim?

    you mean Ralph the Windowmaker?

  11. Nick,

    You put an s between angle brackets at the beginning and a /s between brackets at the end.

  12. Nick, surround it with < del > and < / del > (without the spaces)

  13. I would also point out, that according to our new house liberal Tony, that if you deduct your donation, it is no longer charity.

  14. Yo, fuck charity, an understanding of statistics and the tax code, and John.

    Unintended conse-whatsits?

  15. Wisely, this post criticizing the community organizer is anonymous.

  16. My previous should read “PRIVATE charity.” Government welfare kicks ass.

  17. Every time I hear him make this argument, it just makes him sound stupid.

    Like that?

    I use strike instead of del.

    Nah, I dont buy it though, the argument doesnt make him stupid, he already is. It just makes it clear to anyone listening.

  18. I use strike instead of del.

    You do not need to spell out strike.

  19. his plan’s already saved the jobs of teachers and police officers.

    As net consumers of taxes, these, of course, are not economically productive jobs (at least in the short term; in the very long run, an economy is better off with teachers and cops than without, but stimulus it ain’t).

  20. Just when you thought it inconceivable that the American people could ever elect someone less competent than Bush…

  21. Obama meanders all over the place when talking about economic matters. If I could identify some consistent pattern in the things he says, it would help. But, one second he’s talking about helping people to keep the inflated equity in their homes, and the next he’s talking about making homes affordable for low-income people. He just spews a steady stream of feel-good buzzwords with no apparent connection to reality.

    U.S. fiscal policy has gone from “very bad” (under Bush) to “absolutely horrifically nightmarish” in the space of two months. This is the biggest. most effective power grab I’ve witnessed in my life.

    If you follow public opinion polls, there is widespread opposition to all the stimulus, bailouts, etc. But, the opposition seems to be politically diffuse, fractured and immobilized. I keep hoping there will be some “lightning rod” which could capture all of the opposition energy and channel it into political traction. But, I’m not seeing that happen.

  22. Taxes under Reagan? Hell, let’s go back to taxes under FDR, since Obama pretty much wants to emulate him anyway.

  23. I keep hoping there will be some “lightning rod” which could capture all of the opposition energy and channel it into political traction. But, I’m not seeing that happen.

    Cyborg Ron Paul.

    I know, I know, these matters are serious. I should be ashamed.

    🙁

  24. Wisely, this post criticizing the community organizer is anonymous.

    Whoops! Fixed it, thanks.

  25. And yesterday, I met with a man whose company is reopening a factory outside of Pittsburgh that’s rehiring workers to build some of the most energy-efficient windows in the world.

    Uhh… PPG is headquartered in Pittsburgh, and they are a huge glass-maker. So they opened a new plant outside of town.

    Big fucking deal.

    People also tend to replace windows in the winter to cut down on utility bills.

    Big fucking deal.

    None of these facts are relevant to any dumb fucking government program. If anything, the factory was built outside of Pittsburgh to take advantage of lower property taxes and to avoid commuter taxes or whatever else the >30 mayor/town idiot Luke Ravenstahl proposed…

  26. Matt,

    Given what you know now about Obama, do you think the Maverick would have done worse?

  27. Wisely, this post criticizing the community organizer is anonymous.

    Fortunately, there haven’t been any “ACORN’s getting its own judge” posts here. 😉

  28. I had low expectations for our latest POTUS. However, he has not only displayed less character and capability than I expected, he has also flat-out frightened me a mere 10 weeks into his term.

  29. In Britain under the cosh of Brown and Blair, we have seen a massive infiltration of the charitable sector by central govt. Many ‘charities’ depend almost entirely on govt funding – and have become reliable sources of support for govt policy. It’s a shocking state of affairs. Don’t let it happen to you in the States.

    The Devil’s Kitchen blog has begun to compile a database of these fake charities:

    http://fakecharities.org/

  30. Thanks to all for the HTML education.

    Abdul, that’s the problem with losers. McCain, if he had won, probably would have done some sort of stimulus of his own, probably across the aisle. Maybe it would have been smaller and maybe he doesn’t sign the spending bill until all earmarks are eliminated, but we’d all be ripping him to shreds and Obama supporters, not having evidence of their guy doing all he’s done, would be screaming and saying “see, we told you so, Obama never would have done such horrible things and prolonged the recesssion like McCain is doing!!!11!1!!111”

  31. I mean, if you look at the evidence, there’s very little evidence that this has a significant impact on charitable giving.

    There’s very little evidence because the source of the evidence, namely Obama’s own ass, does not contain much evidence that charities will be adversly affected…

  32. Just when you thought it inconceivable that the American people could ever elect someone less competent than Bush…

    Never over estimate the competence of the American voter!

  33. I had a girlfriend who relied on an extremely similar form of convoluted “logic”.

    I dropped her like a hot rock.

  34. A data point of one is enough to prove that a monster spending program is working. But a data point of several-that is, of all the charities that have plausibly concluded that taxing their donors more will result in lower donations

    I have to quibble here.

    Charitable organizations saying what they think will happen if a tax code change occurs is not a data point.

    A data point would be when the tax code changes, the charitable organizations report a drop in donations.

    Granted, I think it’s absolutely wrong headed to believe that changing the tax code to make charitable giving less deductible will in fact cause people to give less. But that still is not a “data point” in the way it is talked about in this post.

  35. Damnit!!

    Granted, I think it’s absolutely wrong headed to believe that changing the tax code to make charitable giving less deductible will in fact cause people to give less.

    should read :

    Granted, I think it’s absolutely wrong headed to believe that changing the tax code to make charitable giving less deductible will NOT cause people to give less.

  36. Many ‘charities’ depend almost entirely on govt funding – and have become reliable sources of support for govt policy.

    I foresee a huge increase in the popularity of “grant-writing” majors.

  37. Given what you know now about Obama, do you think the Maverick would have done worse?

    On the topic du jour (the economy), I think — as I said before the election — that Mavvy would have been much better on trade, much better rhetorically (though probably not in any real actionable way) on identifying entitlements as the 900-pound gorilla, and less likely to use TARP money for auto-parts suppliers. On the other hand, he supported the bailout, hatched a plan to basically buy everyone’s mortgage, loves cap and trade, railed for more than a decade against Wall Street greed, and has no real principles when it comes to Solving The Problem economically, making him pretty likely to go along with or initiate one harebrained scheme after another. I would put him on that general front as marginally-to-measurably better than Obama. With the caveat that this ain’t scientific.

    Meanwhile he would spend more on defense and war (even while perhaps working better to eliminate military waste). He would have continued the first-term Bush foreign policy approach of irritable hegemony and super-aggressive posturing vis-a-vis Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, and whoever else has recently farted in our general direction. If you believe, like I believe, that that approach was the biggest or second-biggest threat facing our security, then even Obama’s half-hearted climb-downism has got to be an improvement.

    Also, McCain would not have called the DEA off its raids of medical marijuana clubs, which may turn out to be a much bigger deal than all of us realize.

    So to answer your question: I don’t know. I wrote a book about McCain not because I loved Obama or Democrats, but because I think I had a unique insight into McCain’s governing & personal philosophies that was being otherwise unexplored before 2007. Back when, FWIW, I worked at the Los Angeles Times.

  38. I really do not see what everybody is having a problem with here. These comments are full of negitivity rather than good, healthy positivity.

  39. R C Dean-

    Upon what basis do you assert that an economy is better off with cops and teachers? I assume you meant public/government teachers.

    Cops? They are, as you acknowledge, net consumers of taxes, i.e., parasites. They do not make or produce a product, nor do they provide a service. Common sense will not suffer the foolish assertion that cops do provide a “service.” The cost of employing the cops is not limited to their salaries and benefits (including health and dental insurance, overtime, disability, early retirement, tutition reimbursement, retirement, traffic details), but also all of the costs associated with the pulling over motorists. Such costs include the opportunity costs-the motorist pulled over certainluy has better things to do with his time than wait in his car while the creep in Caesar’s costume checks his name and license. How about the costs of the tickets, fines and the like? How about the increase in insurance premiums? How about the guy who challenges the ticket/citation/charge? He must take a day off from work to go to court. How about the court’s time?

  40. Are we going to be John-free until 3?

    You know, when he is done getting his talking points from Rush Limbaugh.

  41. Not to mention the all of the costs associated with Ryan Fredercik type cases. Or the 92 year old woman murdered by those three Atlanta cops. How about the LP’s own Steve Cubby?

    Cops are an economic black hole.

  42. Matt, you’re saying “a data point of one” when you should say “a sample size of one”. By definition, a data point will always be one datum.

    /pedantic grad student

  43. Given what you know now about Obama, do you think the Maverick would have done worse?

    Don’t forget that McCain would likely have croaked in a year or so into the presidency, and we’d have had Sarah “Dipshit” Palin as president, and then Vladimir Putin as president shortly thereafter.

    Cuase she’s a Maverick too, don’ch know…

  44. and we’d have had Sarah “Dipshit” Palin as president

    Giving everyone a snow mobile would be a fantastic stimulus plan.

  45. Damn, I’m big time now…

  46. Giving everyone a snow mobile would be a fantastic stimulus plan.

    Uhh… I live in Florida. Although it does illustrate the point…

  47. “Are we going to be John-free until 3?

    You know, when he is done getting his talking points from Rush Limbaugh.”

    Fuck off you useless cunt.

  48. Taktix?,

    Fine, Mr. Smarty Pants. I’ll just give yours to Warty. See how you like that.

  49. JiggleTits,

    Funny comment from someone with your handle!

  50. SugarFree – you missed the crucial point that would make this the best plan ever.

    You have to make everyone pay taxes on it as a gift. That way we get optimum benefit out of the stimulus.

  51. Fine, Mr. Smarty Pants. I’ll just give yours to Warty. See how you like that.

    Noooooo! I planned to retrofit it to ride on the Everglades, and mount some machine guns, so when Obama collapses the economy and we are all living Mad Max-style, I would run this fucker.

    Native American Giver!

  52. I am giving my snowmobile to the the people of Darfur.

  53. You have to make everyone pay taxes on it as a gift. That way we get optimum benefit out of the stimulus.

    Woo! Man, you filled back in that hole I dug like nobody’s business!

  54. Hey “liberaltarians”!

    Gonna apologize for voting for the dumbest, leas articulate, most clueless Presidente ver yet?

    Come on Elemenope, Max Hats, BDB, MNG, joe, where aaaaaaaaaaare youuuuuuuu?

  55. Gonna apologize for voting for the dumbest, leas articulate, most clueless Presidente ver yet?

    Fucking comedy gold.

  56. Piss off sugar free. If you didn’t vote for McCain/Palin you have zero right to complain.

    Don’t come bitching to me in a few years when you have to trade carbon credits from your state job that’s taxed at 90% to buy your 2013 Pelosimobile.

  57. He’s ‘god’ why question him….

  58. If you didn’t vote for McCain/Palin you have zero right to complain.

    Seriously, you’re on fire!

    “This flavor of ice cream tastes like dog shit. I should have got the cat shit. Oh, bitter regret!”

  59. @- You’re off you flipp’n rocker!!

    Macon and Palin? That our you are significantly High you forgot what shit head they were too!

    Piss off sugar free. If you didn’t vote for McCain/Palin you have zero right to complain.

    I voted for Ron Paul.

    So you all Can’t complain.

    Lol

    What a JA.

  60. Bull. Palin was the closest thing to a libertarian on any major party national ticket in a long, long time SF.

    If you can’t see that, you’re a Democrat shill.

  61. Oh, I see you’re joking (or perhaps have a severe head injury.)

    Run along and find some else to play with.

  62. If you didn’t vote for McCain/Palin you have zero right to complain.

    Awesome. Now tell us about McCain’s conservative record and adherence to principle. I haven’t read shit like that in a few months.

  63. Paul? Paul was a old senile racist weirdo who was bad for the LP and worse for Republicans.

    I didn’t like McCain much, but I voted for him because he was far better than BO and out of respect to Sarah.

  64. “I would like to enter a semantic argument with Obama here: You dont deduct your tax rate % of the donation. You deduct the entire donation.

    The deduction comes off of income.

    It is not a tax credit after taxes are calculated, it is an adjustment to taxable income.

    Every time I hear him make this argument, it just makes him sound stupid. Or devious. Or both.

    Im going with both.”

    I think he’s just being devious.

    He can’t really be dense enough to realize that the deduction value differential is related to the tax rate differential in the first place.

  65. someone, stupid fingers, someone!

  66. He was old and probably would have died, then we could’ve gotten a Libertarian Republican in Sarah Palin.

    Instead everyone just shilled for BO or tried to look “cool” by not voting. I guess you’re just afraid you won’t get laid or invited to parties if you have the balls to say you’re voting Republican.

    Dipshits.

  67. out of respect to Sarah.

    DONDERROOOOO

    You have to be, right?

  68. A wise man once said, “Be Afraid of a President McCain.” You know I read it in a magazeeeeeeeen…

  69. Instead everyone just shilled for BO or tried to look “cool” by not voting. I guess you’re just afraid you won’t get laid or invited to parties if you have the balls to say you’re voting Republican.

    DONDERRRRROOOOOOOOOO!

    “Did you serve in the service, faggot?? I didn’t think so, pussy faggot! I served in the service, faggot! I’m allowed to talk since I served in the service, pussy, and you’re a faggot since you didn’t serve in the service, faggot! Did you collect signatures for petitions, pussy?? I didn’t think so, faggot!”

  70. oh oh oh oh…Ja…Ja….Ja…Ja…Ja….Johhny and the Vets.

  71. Warty-

    Would you rather discuss 9/11?

  72. My identity is my own damn business. Does it make any difference whether I post under this or a dumbass name like SugarFree?

    Anyway, BO is now getting the feds to go after people who “question government” and have “Ron Paul bumperstickers” on their cars.

    Still regret not voting McCain/Palin? If you’re not a pussy dipshit you would.

  73. Oh, let’s. This thread needs more AWESOME.

  74. Holy crap. @ is my new favorite commenter. Thanks, Wednesday!

  75. The only hope for libertarians is in electing Libertarian Republicans, and the right wing is the natural home for libertarians.

    BO will make Bush’s expansion of government look tame. You pussy faggots are going to really regret not voting McCain/Palin just so you could look cool at hipster parties.

  76. DOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  77. I should add, “unless @ is just Dondero.”

    Or a spoof.

  78. Shut up! You don’t know who I am!

    Assholes.

    Why don’t we get back to talking about BO’s big government/appeasement agenda?

  79. Pussy faggot?

    A gay guy with a pussy? A gay guy who likes pussy? A gay male feline? A gay male gynecologist? An especially effete gay guy? Even his insults barely make any sense.

    Also, I’m deducting 20 points from TofuSushi for not yet lecturing him about homophobia.

  80. Upon what basis do you assert that an economy is better off with cops and teachers? I assume you meant public/government teachers.

    An uneducated work force is less productive than an educated workforce.

    Societies with the rule of law are more productive than societies without the rule of law.

    Really, nothing more sophisticated than that. Sure, we can argue about how much better educated/productive we would be without state schooling, or how little of what the current cops do really has to do with the rule of law, but in principle, giving Obama the benefit of the doubt, etc. . . .

  81. PUSSY FAGGOOOOTTTTTTT

    Eric, it’s been a while. Never stay away for so long again, OK?

  82. Does it make any difference whether I post under this or a dumbass name like SugarFree?

    It shows a total lack of creativity on your part, and indicates that you’re just a drive-by shooter.

    So, it means that your opinions are not worthy of any attention.

  83. So on what basis do you morons think that Palin was not a libertarian?

    I told you, Episiarch (what the fuck does that mean, anyway) you don’t know me.

  84. Maybe @ can be our new best friend. A little too angry for my taste, but this is the beta release. I hope they tone that down in the production model.

  85. I know you, @. I know your soul.

  86. Lil’ Angry Atsign here is a live one. Within the day i expect him/her/it to use some variation of “pwned” in a comment. Alternately, @ is an embittered Levi Johnston.

  87. So on what basis do you morons think that Palin was not a libertarian?

    exactly she was about as small government conservative as you get. wihle i wouldnt want to be associated with her i also wouldnt want to be associated with ron paul so i dont understand how libertarians can reject her but accept him unless it has something to do with her being a woman

  88. I still see this place is “Hate Republicans 24/7”.

    I thought I’d come back after the election to see if you fags wised up, but not. It’s still blame Bush, blame Republicans, blah blah.

    When will you admit that I was right?

    Later, I’m out. Say hi to your moms for me!

  89. @.

    Will you at least admit that Bush and Paulson handed Obama the presidency on a silver platter.

    I’ve said before, if McCain had opposed TARP he would have got my vote, but without that opposition, the presidency was out of McCain’s reach no matter what else happened.

    Thanks for the revisionism, though. I would love to live in a world where Palin didn’t crash and burn in the Couric and Gibson interviews, but she did.

  90. Hey @, tell us about Navy life.

  91. Oh, you are SO Dondero, @. That last little bit clinched it.

  92. Also, I’m deducting 20 points from TofuSushi for not yet lecturing him about homophobia.

    Don’t I have to notice the post first before I can lecture?

  93. Palin was the closest thing to a libertarian on any major party national ticket in a long, long time SF.

    Hee hee- good one, dude!

  94. Yeah, I was sure he was just an excellent Dondero spoofer until the last post. Come back soon, Eric!

  95. @ | March 25, 2009, 12:19pm | #

    My identity is my own damn business

    This threw me off. Maybe Eric got a few too many calls to his cell phone or something?

  96. Don’t I have to notice the post first before I can lecture?

    A proper spoof troll is omnipresent. -10 more points for not knowing that.

    Lose much more value and we are going to sell you off as a toxic asset.

  97. The new Justics Scalia of Reason spits: Palin was the closest thing to a libertarian on any major party national ticket in a long, long time SF.

    I think she was missing the jackboots.

  98. And before you ask, as bad as Palin was she did not come across as half the dumb ass/empty suit of Obama. Remember when he tried doing an improved news conference last Spring, and was so stutter-strucked that he fled after the third question? Yeap, Democrats have their very own Dan Quayle now.

  99. The Special Olympics president in action.

    I would be surprised if he could add 2+2.

    So when is the bright and articulate one going to release his test scores?

  100. A proper spoof troll is omnipresent. -10 more points for not knowing that.

    Now you are just making up Fascist rules.

  101. A proper spoof troll is omnipresent. -10 more points for not knowing that.

    Lose much more value and we are going to sell you off as a toxic asset.

    I would like to chastise him for overposting. Per-comment trolling quality has declined since his debut, and it’s leading to consumer fatigue.

  102. I would like to chastise him for overposting. Per-comment trolling quality has declined since his debut, and it’s leading to consumer fatigue.

    I hardly post at all any more, but can go back to responding to every single comment on the thread if you like.

  103. SAT and GRE records are erased after five years.

  104. Not defending anybody. I just know this from personal experience. I had to re-take GREs because I waited a few years to get my Masters.

    So if a pol tells you his test scores, chances are he’s making shit up because there’s no way to verify it.

  105. Obama is actually right on this issue. Charitable giving would probably fall, but only some small amount of it would be due to changes in tax treatment. It would be very difficult to prove exactly how much that amount would be — it’s inexact guesswork.

    Obama’s reasoning, his whole ‘one anecdote makes it A-OK’ stance is troubling, but he’s absolutely right on this issue.

    Obama is using inductive reasoning here, just like his detractors are. He reasons that fixing the economy will best benefit charities, and his opponents think that maintaining tax treatment would best benefit charities. It’s a matter of opinion — it’s not black and white. Nobody is right or wrong.

  106. You have to give Palin some credit: she pissed off the right people including the Obamacons here are Reason in addition to the brain-dead democrats and their buddies in the media.

    She was vastly preferable to Obama and McCain, and she was hardcore libertarian on my most important issue: guns.

    Her religious views are a lot less whacky than the religious views of most democrats (‘government is my god, government can do no wrong, government in every orifice all the time’).

  107. Now you are just making up Fascist rules.

    Maybe he works at Treasury.

  108. ed,

    I’m fairly sure colleges have that data on file.

  109. Now you are just making up Fascist rules.

    -5 for whining.

  110. R C Dean-

    Yes, in principle, I agree that a better educated workforce is better than an uneducated workforce. Ditto for the rule of law for the economy.

    Its just that, IMHO, it does not do us any good to conflate our present realities with the aforesaid principles. Our workforce is not any near as well educated as it could and should be. In fact, public education impairs optimal learning and application. As for the police, they subvert the rule of law necessitating all sorts of horrendous misallocation of resources.

  111. Finally, someone on here gets it so I guess I can stick around.

    Any of you other Democrat apologists have the balls to man up and say Sarah as a Libertarian Republican?

  112. -5 for whining.

    Damn it TreasuryBoy! That is all that contrarians do! If you want whine free go to your Rainbow Doberman Puppy Island and sit under a Swastika tree.

  113. THE URKOBOLD KEEPS LOOKING FOR BRISTOL-ON-SARAH ACTION ON THE INTERNET, TO NO AVAIL. HOW DISAPPOINTING IN THIS AGE OF HIGH TECHNOLOGY!

  114. Whatever happened to LurkerBold? He was here for about 10 days at the start of the year-then vanished. Did he take Joe with him?

  115. -5 for failure to use a space bar properly.

  116. Any of you other Democrat apologists have the balls to man up and say Sarah as a Libertarian Republican?

    Not a Democratic apologist, you homophobic closet drag queen, but just a Democrat.

    Yes, she is a Fascist Republican Genocidal Libertarian from one of the whitest states in America.

    There you go Adolph.

  117. Wherein we get to see what happens when two tar babies fight…

  118. So Episiarch pansy boy, why wasn’t Sarah a Libertarian?

    On what issues was she not?

    Man up and debate, fag.

  119. SF,

    I used the spacebar for your new nickname the same way you use it for your handle when you type it yourself. 2,000,000 carbon credits from you.

    Libertymike,

    Whatever happened to LurkerBold? He was here for about 10 days at the start of the year-then vanished.

    That was my old handle and I changed it.

  120. Eric, I don’t want to talk about Palin. I want to talk about your obsession with homosexuality. Why do think you have that? Is it that you want me to be a “fag”? So that it’s ok, that others are that way too?

    It’s always ok to be gay, Eric. Don’t hate yourself for it.

  121. IS BRISTOL PALIN A LIBERTARIAN? THE URKOBOLD HOPES SO, BECAUSE HE WOULD LIKE HER TO FREE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

    BOUNCY, BOUNCY!

  122. Epi,

    Right on brotherly brother!

  123. Ok, Fu. I accept that and give back those points. I thought you were attempting a Lonewackoism at my expense.

  124. Fags are little hipster boys like you that won’t serve their country in a time of war abroad and enable Democrat government at home.

    I guess you were just too scared to admit you could vote for a Republican, huh?

    Of course you don’t want to talk about Palin. JB and I would tag-team and beat your ass in that debate and you know it.

  125. Looks like @ is looking for a bath house and all he found was this ‘blog.

  126. JB and I would tag-team and beat your ass

    Remember, it’s not gay as long as your balls don’t touch, dude.

  127. JB and I would tag-team and beat your ass in that debate and you know it.

    See what I mean, Eric? These gay domination fantasies of yours are bubbling up from your subconscious. Why do you suppress it? Why not embrace who you are, go down to the local gay bar, and enjoy yourself? You’ll feel so much better.

    Isn’t it better than watching some gay porn to get your hate back?

  128. Epi,

    He’s not gay. He’s not anything. Mommy left the clothes pin on too long that time he was being punished for touching himself while watching the dog lick its nuts.

  129. I don’t know about libertarian but anyone who believes in witches ain’t getting my vote.

    BO got a bunch of flak because his preacher used some over the top rhetoric about the well documented mistreatment of members of his race but noone seems to care that Sara Palin associates with a preacher who exhorted his parishioners to drive an old old lady out of town because HE SAID SHE WAS A WITCH.

    Sorry for shouting, but holy hockey sticks, Sara Palin believes in fucking witchcraft. And not in some metaphorical way but a burning-at the-stake-way.

    I wanted to like her but truly anyone who is that fucking ignorant just doesn’t deserve any respect.

  130. Epi,

    Is he from the DC area? They just re-opened Zigfeld’s and it is right next door to The Crucible too!

  131. Could you ever see Obama or Biden doing this?

    That’s why Palin is libertarian.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Sarah_Palin_Kuwait_14.jpg

    Or this:

    http://imgsrv.kmbz.com/image/kmbz/UserFiles/Image/Brian%5C%27s%20Pics/palin-gun.jpg

    You morons lost the chance to elect that woman so you could look cool at your cocktail parties.

  132. SugarFree,

    He did what? Sexually abusing and dehumanizing dogs like that is so wrong!

  133. It’s a form of eye-rape.

  134. Tofu, I think he’d be more of a Manhole or White Swallow customer.

  135. @,

    WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON SARAH AND BRISTOL PALIN? DO YOU PREFER ONE TO THE OTHER, OR WOULD YOU RATHER BANG BOTH AT ONCE?

  136. Were you ever in the military, “Episiarch?”

    No? Then shut the fuck up.

  137. You morons lost the chance to elect that woman so you could look cool at your cocktail parties.

    Do you really think your “crush” on Palin is fooling anyone, including yourself?

  138. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A TURKISH PRISON, EPISIARCH?

  139. Ah, I think someone has outed @! @, are you a Navy type Republidroid Fascist?

  140. I’ve fucked more women in my life than you ever will, Episiarch. Of course that’s easy to do when I’m not living in my mom’s basement and eating ramen all day like you, you loser fuck.

    You probably don’t even know what a pussy looks like.

  141. Were you ever in the military, “Episiarch?”

    No? Then shut the fuck up.

    OK, whoever is doing “@” as a Dondero spoof, you have earned your praise. Come forward and take your bow.

    If that is really you, Eric, why would you ever think we couldn’t tell?

    And, for your information, I have served in the Panty Raid Militia and the Muff Diver Brigades, so fuck you.

  142. Oh, I forgot, you probably do know what a pussy looks like since you can look in the mirror!

  143. You probably don’t even know what a pussy looks like.

    They look like lolcats, right?

  144. I was wrong. @ is SugarFree. He reveald it @1:37pm.

  145. I’ve done more for the LP than any of you shitbags ever will. I’m out.

  146. I’ve fucked more women in my life than you ever will, Episiarch.

    The more chicks you bang, the more frustrated you become, because it’s just not satisfying you. Accept the truth, Eric.

  147. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

  148. Palin demonstrated some rare true belief in the Bill of Rights (guns and jury of peers), but she, like Obama, was not ready for national and internation politics. Somehow the media saw it as their job to expose all her shortcomings, but did not seem interested in doing the same for Black Obama. There was no “how much does a gallon milk cost” or “who is the president of Palau”

  149. bravo, @, bravo.

  150. It has to be SugarFree.

  151. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

    YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

  152. “I would be surprised if he could add 2+2.”

    That’s easy. 2+2=4 for me and 0 for you.

  153. “It’s always ok to be gay, Eric. Don’t hate yourself for it.”

    Just because I suck a little dick sometimes doesn’t make me gay.

  154. It’s not me. I’m too lazy to keep switching my handle back and forth like that.

  155. That was fun. We need more threads like this.

  156. “You probably don’t even know what a pussy looks like.”

    They look like this:

    http://www.bookconnector.com/images/EricDondero.JPG

  157. I’m sure that wasn’t Eric posting, but I’m not sure who it was. Reinmoose?

  158. Goddamn, that is one puffy motherfucker. “My eyes! Ze goggles do nothink!”

  159. Tofusushi-

    Okay, but did you kidnap Joe?

  160. There was no “how much does a gallon milk cost” or “who is the president of Palau”

    They didn’t ask her these questions. They ask her what she reads. Any toddler can answer that question.

  161. You know, if you just wanted to get laid with young liberal chicks or look cool at parties, you could just lie about who you voted for.

  162. Libertymike,

    LOL, no I did not kidnap joe. He did leave not really long after I arrived. I suspect some sort of care facility without internetz. No matter how much I agreed with him he just got angrier and angrier.

    I have no idea, but if I were the wagering sort, I would bet that he likes to be the lone contrarian in a group.

  163. @, please leave me out of your gay/beatdown/whatever fantasies those are.

    I don’t disagree with a few of your points about Palin, but let’s leave it at that.

    She was much more libertarian on my central issue (guns) than Obama or McCain. She also pissed off so many different groups of people that I hate so I gave her credit there as well. She also took on the established party in her state and worked her way up without digging into sealed divorce records on her opponents. She also went after a cop who tortured children and was attacked by all sorts of democrats who claim they are against ‘torture’ and showed what giant hypocrites they are.

    I learned two things from the democrats in the 2008 election:
    1. Women should not be taken seriously.
    2. It’s ok to torture children.

    I have filed those away for future reference.

  164. I’m honored, Pro L, that you would think of me, but I’m not that good.

  165. Careful, Welch, with the criticism of Obama: If it resonates at all, you’re liable to be labeled a closet-Republican, and therefore racist, and then be cast into opinion-leader perdition.

  166. Well, then, it must be. . .gaius marius!

  167. Or it could be Biggus Dickus

  168. I like to think that one of the growing number of fake trolls around here is one of the former Hit & Run commenters. Like gaius, or linguist, or even a totally insane joe.

  169. Like gaius, or linguist, or even a totally insane joe.

    or DAN T!!!

  170. Totally insane Joe. That sounds like a comic book character. I would like to think Joe would have come up with a more entertaining character than TufoSushi or whatever his name is.

  171. You know, if you just wanted to get laid with young liberal chicks or look cool at parties, you could just lie about who you voted for.

    Or you could just vote for the least-bad option on the ballot (whoever is running as the LP candidate), and tell the truth. Liberal chicks are OK with voting libertarian, and explaining what libertarian even MEANS gives you a great conversation starter.

    But I suppose lying about a choice you’re starting to massively regret is a reasonable alternative.

  172. Or Dave W. or Jason Bourne?

  173. explaining what libertarian even MEANS gives you a great conversation starter.

    Lol

  174. “Libertarian” means. . .never having to say you’re sorry.

  175. It can’t be one of the former liberals. It’s a long form lampooning of liberal thought and ideas. None of them have the sense of humor to make fun of what they believe for that long.

  176. “Yeah- I’m one of those guys who, you know, wants to see your grandmother sleeping in a cardboard box, under a bridge, living on dog food and the congealed grease at the bottom of the dumpster behind Arby’s. And I want to buy Laudanum over the counter, at 7-eleven. That’s right, a libertarian.”

  177. And I want to buy Laudanum over the counter, at 7-eleven.

    Wait… is that supposed to be a parody, because, you know, I sort of want that…

  178. Laudanum Fun Fact: My wife’s great-great grandfather was a pharmacist and we inherited some of the bric-a-brac. There’s an empty bottle of Laudanum with dosing instructions for children down to the age of 3.

  179. And so the most important thing that I can do for charitable giving is to fix the economy

    And given that no president can “fix the economy”, charitable giving is doomed.

  180. With two fuckwit presidents back to back, surely people will start to realize the cult of the presidency is a farce? Or am I being hopelessly naive again?

  181. Brandybuck,

    We’re not going to learn until it’s too damned late, apparently.

  182. We all want Laudanum.

  183. Uh, Eric Dondero supported Barr (to the point of doing ballot access petition drives for him). He also hated McCain with a passion. @ is just someone attempting to spoof him without knowing the details.

  184. Well, actually, crimethink, Dumderoooooooooooo was telling folks to vote for palin on the strength of the Sara presence on the ticket.

    So I have to ask, do Catholics still support burning witches at the stake? Sara Palin does, or at least she has no problem with people driving some old lady that her African pastor thinks is witch out of town.

  185. …to vote for palinMcCain on the…

  186. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Sarah_Palin_Kuwait_14.jpg

    Holy fuck, it’s called trigger discipline or the most important rule of gun safety. Dondero spoofer picked a poor picture to prove that she is anything more than just a politician posing for publicity.

    Also fuck me for alliteration.

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