Better Call Ditech! Obama Will Fix Your Mortgage, Garbage Disposal With $75 Billion Plan
Hot off yesterday's signing of The American Reinvestment and Recovery Act, President Barack Obama has announced his new mortgage-bailout bill:
"I also want to be very clear about what this plan will not do: It will not rescue the unscrupulous or irresponsible by throwing good taxpayer money after bad loans," Obama said. "It will prevent the worst consequences of this crisis from wreaking even greater havoc on the economy. And by bringing down the foreclosure rate, it will help to shore up housing prices for everyone."
The effort would help borrowers—both those current and delinquent—who live in their homes lower their monthly payments for five years. The servicer would reduce interest rates so that the monthly obligation is no more than 38% of a borrower's income and then the government would kick in money to bring payments down to 31% of the homeowner's income….
The Obama plan calls for legal changes to allow judges to modify mortgages during bankruptcy. Judges would be allowed to reduce the loan balance, a measure the financial industry fears because it would lower the value of the mortgage.
Despite the relatively puny ticket price ($75 billion just doesn't seem so big anymore, does it?), allowing judges to reduce loan balances is a huge departure from past practice and it's far from clear exactly how the new mortgages can or will be valued. And of course, there's a bunch of zeroes still waiting to be tacked onto the whole plan, which includes expansions of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the feds buying a bunch of new mortgage-backed securities as well. The plan, which lenders and borrowers can join voluntarily, also allows the government to set many terms, from maximum payments to mandatory credit counseling and the like.
Obama's speech was big on responsibility rhetoric. Only those deserving to be bailed out will be (and for all of us who lived within our means, well, thanks). I am genuinely puzzled by that rhetoric and the logic of the plan: Everyone agrees that housing prices were inflated but the way out of this thicket is to keep them high but have people pay less for them…until such time when everything is OK again.
I would much prefer a plan that would help people who are screwed via unemployment benefits and that sort of aid, and would allow markets to work through the pricing of assets and real estate. It's less heroic, to be sure, but it would have the benefit of actually allowing price signals to operate, which strikes me as about 10,000 times more preferable than what we're looking at here.
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So do I
1) get myself fired,
2) stop paying my mortgage or
3) run up a ton of debt
to get my piece of the bailout pie?
If my tax dollars are going to pay for a mortgage it's damn sure going to be mine!!
I continue to be amazed at the quality of the Challenged One's work.
I knew this was coming and sold my Plano house in 2007. I guess I should have kept it and stopped paying my mortgage. That would have been far more responsible in this day and age.
I was watching Rose:Rise and Fall of an Empire lat night on the History channel. It specifically mentioned that he was a populist who gained support though his message of change. I couldn't stop laughing after hearing that especially since it was produced a couple years ago.
oops forgot to mention that they were talking about Caesar.
I, for one, am through.
Bernanke on TV right now explaining what I posted three weeks ago.
Matt Welch: I want my two dollars.
Here's a question: if people are having trouble paying their mortgages now, what happens in a year when their locality cranks property taxes through the roof to cover budgetary shortfalls?
They'll be right back to not being able to pay. Another bailout, then?
I have to say that I don't know a single person who is being foreclosed on. Not one, and yet somehow this is an issue deserving national attention? To tell it like it is - this is a bailout to the states of Florida, Nevada, Arizona, parts of Texas, California, and North Carolina, at the expense of states who have been struggling this whole time that the aforementioned states have been raking it in.
I guess I'd better run out and get a mortgage so I can get some of this free money.
Seriously, what do responsible middle-class taxpayers who live in apartments because they're allergic to stupid mortgages get?
what happens in a year when their locality cranks property taxes through the roof to cover budgetary shortfalls?
Epi - already happened in my town. We are under a state fiscal monitor, and she doubled our taxes overnight. My condo is on the market now, and I expect to face a grievous loss: hopefully to avoid an even more grievous one in several years, when things are markedly worse.
Seriously, what do responsible middle-class taxpayers who live in apartments because they're allergic to stupid mortgages get?
Hi, speedwell!
Agreed...I think the most insulting thing about all of this are the homeowners who commit suicide when foreclosed on. I live in a small apartment. It is a far from glamorous lifestyle, but I wouldn't say that life is therefore worth ending because I don't (yet, though, "if ever" at this rate) own my own home...I mean sheesh...it does kinda suck to some degree, but it's not *that* bad.
This is insane. I have lived below my means for many years only to have Obama take my money and give it away to those who have lived beyond their means. It makes me sick.
What can we do? I am tired of being quiet about this. I want to take action but not sure how to get my voice out. Any ideas?
So the question now is, when and how are the unintended consequences of this going to fuck us over? (besides all the money that somebody somewhere has to pay)
Seriously, what do responsible middle-class taxpayers who live in apartments because they're allergic to stupid mortgages get?
The same thing a house-owner who bought responsibly gets: fucked in the ass.
bdcbryan,
We'll just await/incite the Revolution.
To tell it like it is - this is a bailout to the states of Florida, Nevada, Arizona, parts of Texas, California, and North Carolina
In the short term yes it is a payout of 6 billion for my state (NC) for going TeamBlue this year. I ran some numbers a week back when the local newspapers and politicians were lauding how much of Uncle Sugar's generosity we will be receiving based on corporate taxation, medium income, pop. size etc versus costs of stimulus plus CBO estimates of the interests involved, purely back of the envelope, but still rule of thumb accurate. In the long run we will be paying out 24 billion more than we will receive. So those idiots at the trough can lick my balls if they think I'm gonna stay honest in my tax statements.
My condo is on the market now, and I expect to face a grievous loss
My experiences with property taxes--and I bought and sold my house perfectly along the bubble (bought 2002, sold 2006), so that has nothing to do with it--made me completely anti-owning. If my rent is $1300/month, that's $15,600/year. I was paying $10,000/year in property taxes. Along with the insurance, the repairs, and various other costs, the house was costing me the same as renting--and that's without considering the mortgage payments!
It's insane. Let the landlord shoulder the burden. Plus it's easier to just up and move.
Who is Ragnar Danneskj?ld?
(hi, smacky!)
No! My condo! AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!
ugh
medium income
median income
Seriously, what do responsible middle-class taxpayers who live in apartments because they're allergic to stupid mortgages get?
The same thing those of us who have paid our mortgage on time every month for the past 15 years get: what SugarFree said. Bent over the barrel and drilled hard.
If Obama doesn't deliver my pizza in the next ten minutes, I am demanding I get it for free!
Texas and North Carolina? Not really. Both states, while they had strong growth, didn't have a housing bubble. Even the most bubbly areas in both states still have pretty affordable housing. Northern Virginia, yes, a terrible housing bubble.
Epi,
Just move? Like gypsies? That would be sweet! I would be a gypsie bare knuckle boxing champion like in the movie Snatch.
smacky,
That hope and change bullshit wasn't meant for capitalist fat cats such as yourself. Your probably sitting at your PC in a top hat wearing a monocle.
I live in a small apartment. It is a far from glamorous lifestyle, but I wouldn't say that life is therefore worth ending because I don't (yet, though, "if ever" at this rate) own my own home...
I really like the sob stories on TV about families losing their homes... that had pools... and were 2000K+ sq ft... to house 4 people and a dog... and they all pack up after a garage sale in their late model Chevy Suburban and second car...
Monocles are more affordable than you think.
Are there going to be any stipulations on sales? If the market suddenly bubbles again in the next several years, will these people be allowed to sell there houses at a huge profit. The purpose of this bill is to save honest/hardworking people who need a "home". If this is true, they should not be able to sell for a number of years, or any profit from a future sale should go back into the kitty for when they need it again.
John Thacker -
They did have an employment bubble, however, which will lead to many defaulted mortgages. Maybe not Texas, but how many banking jobs are disappearing in Charlotte alone?
Ok, I just thought more on it - I take that back.
If the govt forces a mortgage company to forgive $1 of a loan, isn't that an additional $1 of cost? The "low ticket price" only counts what the govt will give someone, not what the govt will force someone else to give him. An order to give someone else $1 is no different than a dollar in tax and a dollar in spending.
"So those idiots at the trough can lick my balls if they think I'm gonna stay honest in my tax statements."
My wife started selling Avon last year to make a little extra cash for our vacation. (The responsible thing to do, right?) Well, when it came time to pay our taxes she wanted to be sure to declare what she needed to declare so we wouldn't be untruthful. It turned out she didn't make enough to declare according to Turbo Tax but damned if I didn't have to talk her off the honesty ledge.
"Sheryl, they are screwing us every chance they get. What they don't know, won't hurt you. Keep your money!"
From the 9th circle of Hell, a conversation overheard:
1st guy -- so, what are you here for?
2nd guy - I spent my entire career running up the bureaucratic ladder at the department of Housing and Urban development.
1st guy -- okay, how did that get you here?
2nd guy - One day my boss had us all at a meeting. He said that the poor were starting to become apathetic in their voting patterns and not showing the Democratic party the gratitude oweded. 'They are taking all the programs we put in place for them, and not showing up at the polls to reward the politicians who we need for our own job security.' he told us. 'Hell, (shudder) some are even voting for Republicans. We need some ideas how we can turn this around.'
I snapped my fingers and blurted out, why don't we give the poor free houses, and let's spread them out among the middle class sprawl so they will enjoy the lovely scenery of a modern cul de sac instead of the Urban blight we have rewarded them with for years. Surely, they will appreciate us then, and make us more politically viable even in the suburbs.
1st guy -- wow, you pretty much singlehandedly destroyed your entire country. Hey you, listening in on us, what are you here for?
3rd guy - I was the bassist for Styx.
1st&2nd -- Son of a bitch.
" but I wouldn't say that life is therefore worth ending because I don't (yet, though, "if ever" at this rate) own my own home...I mean sheesh...it does kinda suck to some degree, but it's not *that* bad."
I own my house (it's been in my family for four generations). It has several bedrooms, lots of fruit trees, berry bushes and an herb garden. You're welcome to move in with me. 😉
"What can we do? I am tired of being quiet about this. I want to take action but not sure how to get my voice out. Any ideas?"
Contact OLS
and were 2000K+ sq ft... to house 4 people and a dog
I generally detest the crtique that american houses are 'too big'. But 2000K square feet is indeed a bit much. Their summer home must be the Mall of America. 🙂
And by bringing down the foreclosure rate, it will help to shore up housing prices for everyone.
If they want to shore up housing prices, they'll need to constrain supply. Which means they'll want to pay me to *not* build any houses where I'm already *not* planting corn.
I need to get busy drawing up a subdivision plan.
But 2000K square feet is indeed a bit much.
What?!? For four people and a dog? 2000 would be a little on the small side.
P Brooks,
That last post was full of win!
it does kinda suck to some degree, but it's not *that* bad.
I had to stomp a rat in my kitchen last week. It didn't bother me much till its death twitches splashed the puddle of blood around everywhere.
Moral: don't live in my apartment.
Your probably sitting at your PC in a top hat wearing a monocle.
Smacky's a one-eyed rabbit?
You're welcome to move in with me. 😉
That's awfully nice of you, sir (or is it ma'am?). But how will I know where to move if I don't know who you are...
Oh, it doesn't matter...Let me get my things!
Naga, those weren't gypsies, or Roma as they prefer to be called, but Travelers, Irish Fookin Travelers.
Snatch was the one with Mr. Jolie, right?
Episiarch, 2000 is a reasonable amount. But 2000K, or 2,000,000 square feet is indeed a bit much for four people and a dog.
"The plan I'm announcing focuses on rescuing families who have played by the rules and acted responsibly," Obama said.
Wouldn't it be safe to say that the people who played by the rules and acted responsibly don't need to be rescued?
Epi,
I once lived in a 2600 square foot home with my friend, his girlfriend, and his daughter. The house was so big that a lot of times I wasn't sure if anyone else was there.
I think 2 million square feet is okay for a starter home.
A next-door neighbor abandoned their house, and there's a house across the street that's in foreclosure. My wife and I were wondering if the Obamanator's plan to reward the criminally foolish would mean that our neighbors would be moving back in. We, of course, should subsidize the move, having been responsible and otherwise unmutual.
The unemployment rate isn't great in the Carolinas right now, sure, but there are plenty of comparable states. OR, RI, MI, etc. are all significantly higher, for that matter.
But unemployment does not necessarily lead to as many defaulted mortgages in the absence of a housing bubble, housing crash, and plenty of people with mortgages that they could never afford intending to flip. And that's why you can't fairly put those states with the others.
Warty | February 18, 2009, 2:20pm | #
it does kinda suck to some degree, but it's not *that* bad.
I had to stomp a rat in my kitchen last week. It didn't bother me much till its death twitches splashed the puddle of blood around everywhere.
Moral: don't live in my apartment.
You want to solve your rat problem? Go to the local shelter, get about a half dozen feral cats, and release them at strategic points around the complex. Don't let your neighbors see you do this, however, as many people think of cats as pests, but you would really be doing exactly what our wiser ancestors did to tame similar problems. That is what the cat was bred to do.
"Oh, it doesn't matter...Let me get my things!"
Heaven, I'm in Heaven,
And my heart beats so that I can hardly speak;
And I seem to find the happiness I seek
When we're out together dancing, cheek to cheek.
Heaven, I'm in Heaven,
And the cares that hang around me thro' the week
Seem to vanish like a gambler's lucky streak
When we're out together dancing, cheek to cheek.
Naga is allowed near children?
If the govt forces a mortgage company to forgive $1 of a loan, isn't that an additional $1 of cost?
Yes, and since the banks are/will be all government owned, it is government spending - once the government recapitalizes/nationalizes banks.
An order to give someone else $1 is no different than a dollar in tax and a dollar in spending.
better yet? If the government forgives/subsidizes your mortgage, that's taxable income, baby! Thats right, the government is forceing private lenders to take losses, which will lead/contribute to the nationalization of the banks - then they are taxing those same payments as they are distributed to individuals. Govt takes X from banks, forceing insolvency, then takes over company. Govt gives X to homeonwers, keeping 30% as a tip.
Overkiller,
Damn you! You are correct. I was watching that the movie on my iTouch in class yesterday.
P Brooks,
A one eyed rabbit? What rabbit do you know that wears a top hat, eh?
Wow, you poor people all live in tiny houses. I pity you.
You want to solve your rat problem? Go to the local shelter, get about a half dozen feral cats, and release them at strategic points around the complex.
Charlie: There's some sort of weird chemical reaction that happens when you combine cat food, beer, and glue. It makes you feel, like, extremely sick and tired, and you're able to fall asleep!
Dee: Why would I wanna make myself extremely sick and tired?
Charlie: 'Cause there's gonna be about fifty cats howling outside that window all night long, and you have no idea how loud fifty cats can be.
Dee: OK, maybe there wouldn't be cats surrounding your building if you didn't have open cans of cat food everywhere.
Charlie: I have fifty cats howling outside my window because I have ten thousand rats running around my building, Dee! OK?
Dee: All right, stop yelling. You're spitting cat food on me.
Warty,
I find "500 feet at all times" to be fairly subjective. What am I? Some sorta eagle eye carpenter?
A next-door neighbor abandoned their house
Anschluss!
Warty,
Sith lords make excellent nannies. You'd be amazed what a little Force lightning can do for children with chronic discipline problems. Darth Mary Poppins is one such example, but there are many more.
"You want to solve your rat problem? Go to the local shelter, get about a half dozen feral cats, and release them at strategic points around the complex."
LMAO!!!
A one eyed rabbit? What rabbit do you know that wears a top hat, eh?
I do, bitch.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.frostbit.com/NeighborNet/David_Pederson/large/FEAST.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.frostbit.com/NeighborNet/David_Pederson/anne.html&usg=__RWACOSfP_KetuPb_AC6E3Ewky8U=&h=598&w=490&sz=434&hl=en&start=4&sig2=DiESy_NR7byy9DBmMybaiw&tbnid=zqN2aCjkLwm-JM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=111&ei=BGKcSZOnN9KwmQeDmfnuBA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DUncle%2BWiggly%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX
The beauty is that Obama is authorizing someone else to force someone else to give you a dollar, thus insulating him from accusations that he spent that dollar.
Yes! We! Can!
Warty, this was the child that made it so that Naga is no longer allowed around children.
Naga-
"Sitting *in* a top hat..."
nyuk
nyuk
nyuk
Pro Liberate,
Darth Mary Poppins? I may have missed that title in the movie.
Naga,
It's an implied thing. Surely you noted her use of Force powers!
When I'm at work, sometimes people will try to sit at my bar and eat . . . with their fucking kids!!! No fucktard! You can't have anyone under 21 even at the bar. Let alone eat at the fucking bar!
The idiotic part of all this is that propping up the housing market is supposed to help stabilize MBSes, so the banking system can stabilize. Because its "the root of the current financial crisis".
But rewriting mortgages and reducing interest payments does nothing to resolve those issues.
It just kicks the can a few years down the road to the next time these people can't make their payments.
If the goal is to resolve the issue of bad loans, I can't see how extending the term of those loans helps. And reducing the principle just creates more uncertainty.
I can tell you one thing for sure. No bank is going to TOUCH subprime mortgages for decades after this, if they know that when someone defaults the court will fuck them over by reducing the principle.
And we can predict the response, eh? The banks aren't lending! the government must force the banks to lend!
Well, duh. Would you loan money to people with bad credit if you knew that the courts could arbitrarily reduce the princple of the loan?
I did but I just thought English women rolled that way. That and I was constantly wondering what an naughty girl she must be in the bedroom.
They are only really loud when they are in heat. I have a white noise generator that blocks off all excessive noise and gives any potential burglars a fair chance.
Also, the key is not to get attached. When the rats are killed off, the cats either die off or scurry off else where, unless some old retarded lady in the complex starts to feed them.
For the record, I have a few domesticated cats and another that is feral that I can't catch to whack off his balls. I live in a rural area, and my house and my lots are beside a large corn field. Hence the need for rodent control.
Run, poor feral kitty! Alan wants yer balls!
Snakes are good, too. For rats, I mean. I have no idea if they keep down monocled rabbits.
On second thought, they must keep down monocled rabbits, cause I haven't seen any around here.
The non-nested nature of the threads here occasionally makes for some interesting juxtapostions.
Pardon me for raising annoyances like the constitution, but doesn't a mandatory mortgage cramdown raise Contract Clause issues?
One other point: this means that in the future, lenders are going to factor the risk of cramdowns into the cost of lending, meaning higher interest rates for those who borrow. Yet another hidden cost of rescue.
since the banks are/will be all government owned, it is government spending - once the government recapitalizes/nationalizes banks.
But they're not going to ALL be government owned, just the ones that take bailout money, right? I'm only asking because, let's say for instance, I invesed some money in a new community bank that was coming on line. The big selling point is that they'd have no baggage from this whole mess. Nationalized banks wipe out all shareholder equity, I believe.
On second thought, they must keep down monocled rabbits, cause I haven't seen any around here.
We've had a resurgence of fisher cats here. They don't just keep down monocled rabbits, but also small dogs and cats. Don't let Fluffy out at night any more.
If I recall a childhood friends problem correctly then yes. Baked Penguin would be correct that they keep down monocled rabbits.
Alan,
Leave the cats balls alone and maybe you could catch him.
Epi is right, the one thing I've learned from all of this is to never ever own a house.
Epi,
A fucking bobcat? Do you have any idea how fucking mean those fuckers are? Dude, watch your back. They may mistake a newly lasered man as a potential mate.
SugarFree | February 18, 2009, 2:48pm | #
Run, poor feral kitty! Alan wants yer balls!
🙂
He is a large, smart fellow, and if you imagine a Bond villain feline except with smokey gray fur instead of white, you would get a good picture.
If I can neuter him, he'll be much more tamable.
Also, since my occupation is Super Villain, I need a proper cat.
...since my occupation is Super Villain, I need a proper cat.
There! Now poor Flopsy's dead, and never called me mother!
If I can neuter him, he'll be much more tamable.
Mr. Bigglesworth! NOOOOOO
Alan,
Leave the cats balls alone and maybe you could catch him.
Oh, Naga! Reminds me, my brother in law botched the neutering of one of his pygmy goats (cute bastards), so it still has one ball. As a result, it has a weird, ethereal, castati like voice that sounds like it is crawling at you from the depths of the eternal abyss.
I get chills every time I hear it. I will never get use to it.
Sheep go to Heaven, goats go to Hell.
Alan, I saw a "dirty jobs" once where they castrated sheep with their teeth. Please tell me that was a cruel joke they played on Mike Rowe...
Everyone agrees that housing prices were inflated but the way out of this thicket is to keep them high but have people pay less for them...until such time when everything is OK again.
When these clowns are done with the dollar, a 1500 sq ft house will be selling for 6.2 million bucks. Problem solved.
Of course the prime rate will be 36%, and you'll have to put half down to actually get a loan...
Goats are delicious!
Pgymy goats? Does your brother in law have a secret underground lab where he attempts to genetically engineer the "perfect" weapon for the military?
Kolohe, I know a lot of british girls, I didn't find the juxtaposition odd at all...
I had a pet pygmy goat. A neighbor's dog bit out its throat and left it floating in our pond. My dad and a shotgun had a talk with the dog.
Naga Sadow | February 18, 2009, 3:53pm | #
Pgymy goats? Does your brother in law have a secret underground lab where he attempts to genetically engineer the "perfect" weapon for the military?
'fraid not, but he does make a sour mesh whiskey that is better than the licensed brands.
domoarrigato | February 18, 2009, 3:42pm | #
Alan, I saw a "dirty jobs" once where they castrated sheep with their teeth. Please tell me that was a cruel joke they played on Mike Rowe...
Ouch, what did MR ever do to deserve that.
alan,
Better than Jack? They've been needing a comeuppance lately. Bourbon prices have gone up roughly 10 bucks lately and I have a feeling they are involved.
sage--
The thing is, a few of the larger banks were forced to take bailout money regardless of whether they wanted it. (Including some like BB&T that didn't need it.)
The theory was apparently that consumers and investors would lose confidence in banks that had to actually ask for the money, so the government just forced everybody to take the money.
We've had a resurgence of fisher cats here.
I ran into one of those deer hunting years ago. No fear at all. Eyeballed me, thought a minute, and strolled away. Kind of chilling. I seriously thought I was going to have to slug him.
They are part of the family Mustelidae, the drunken Irish of the animal kingdom. Considering they are closely related to wolverine, who at 50ish pounds kill moose and steal from bears, it was probably waiting for you to insult its mother before proceeding to give you the beat-down of a lifetime.
RC Dean,
It's a good thing you didn't shoot it. You would have just pissed it off.
Naga Sadow | February 18, 2009, 4:58pm | #
alan,
Better than Jack? They've been needing a comeuppance lately. Bourbon prices have gone up roughly 10 bucks lately and I have a feeling they are involved.
My first reaction when trying it was, 'this is better than Jack.' Though it has a hell of a kick, you can taste a strong amount of sour mesh, it is almost cider like.
If they want to shore up housing prices, they'll need to constrain supply
That's being worked on. I've heard plenty of Democrats proclaim "the era of the suburb is over" while pushing legislation for mandatory "smart growth" development rules. Don't worry, comrade, your party-approved sardine-can sized abode will be available soon.
I wish they would come out and tell us what this means in plain english. But I guess that would ruin The Plan.
I have been saving for about a year, with plans on buying a house this year (in October). I have a great job, know exactly how much I can afford, and won't go over that. Plus I live near Houston, where there wasn't a housing bubble (although house prices have dropped some).
So like, Kilroy...I want this bullshit to at least benefit me in someway...especially since I'll be paying for it for the rest of my life regardless.
Is this a good year to be a first time home owner?