A Little Something to Stimulate Your Interest

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.), a stalwart friend of free markets and small government in Congress, got curious about the costs of borrowing all those hundreds of billions in stimulus bucks. Being a congressman, he's lucky enough to have the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) at his disposal to do any and all hard math he requires for his congressional duties.

And what did the CBO find?: The debt service alone from the stimulus will cost about $347 billion over the next 10 years. As the letter (read the whole thing here [PDF]) dryly notes: "Such costs are not included in CBO's cost estimates for individual pieces of legislation and are not counted for Congressional scorekeeping purposes."

Yep. That's $347 billion in interest. Stimulating indeed.

Comments

[Naga Sadow]

Can't we just tell China "No take backs!"?

[miche]

Ooooohweeee! I just love being stimulated while I eat dinner!

[Hazel Meade]

This is an angle that we should be pushing a lot more. Everyone understands how buying household goods on credit is a rip-off, because you end up paying so much in interests. Hardly anyone has been pointing out that we have to pay interest on stimulus debt though.

[A Modest Proposal]

Let's bring the free market to Reason!

A simple comment rating system would eliminate most of the trolls (or at consign them to posting below the radar of most of us) and make this a great place for libertarians to hang out again.

These kinds of rating systems are used at Slashdot, Urban Dictionary, DKos, etc and aren't hard to implement.

Bring reasoned discourse back to Reason!

[Kolohe]

And the total nominal interest on a 250K 15 year mortgage @ 5% is over 100 thousand dollars. On a thirty year it would be nearly equal to the original principal amount. And I didn't even need government accountant to tell me that.

345 billion over ten years is:
0.2% of likely GDP over that period
about 4% of our current debt load
about half of what our deficit is going to be just this year.

Numbers without context are something I expect from various nanny state scaremongers and others with similar aims.

[Mike]

Just a cursory glance at Mr. Ryan's record reveals:

YES on banning gay adoptions in DC.: Opposes topic 3

YES on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage

Supports anti-flag desecration amendment

Mighty low standards Katherine's setting for friends of liberty these days, hm?

Rated -10 by NORML, indicating a "hard-on-drugs" stance

YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent

YES on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant

[PFJ]

The post says "friend of the free market and small government" and its clearly referring to economic issues, not social ones. There are like two libertarians in Congress, when we find someone that's half there, we shouldn't scream about the other half.

[Seer]

That estimate is probably a low ball estimate too given that inflation will probably increase at a much faster rate from the current proposed program alone.

[Mike]

"The post says "friend of the free market and small government" and its clearly referring to economic issues, not social ones. There are like two libertarians in Congress, when we find someone that's half there, we shouldn't scream about the other half."

1. Drug prohibition is an economic issue. A pretty major one, at that.

2. "Small government" implies, to me, small government. Not warrentless wiretapping and PATROIT Acts.

I have no problem recognizing libertarian tendencies if and where they exist; my complaint was more with Katherine's hyperbole than anything else.

[Kolohe]

That estimate is probably a low ball estimate too given that inflation will probably increase at a much faster rate from the current proposed program alone.

The debt service is in nominal dollars; inflation actually makes the number better. (per the pdf link the bulk of the deficit spending is before FY11)

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

Mighty low standards Katherine's setting for friends of liberty these days, hm?

Not really.

You may find a real dose of fiscal responsibility on the right. You may find a real dose of civil liberties on the left.

Thou shan't find these doses well blended in The Big Two (D's and R's).

So if you want to make perfection the enemy of what little good we can find, speak for yourself.

[Elemenope]

The post says "friend of the free market and small government" and its clearly referring to economic issues, not social ones. There are like two libertarians in Congress, when we find someone that's half there, we shouldn't scream about the other half.

When someone giveth with their right hand and taketh with their left, you're still left with jack and shit, despite how the dance is entertaining to those bystanders watching.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

This is an angle that we should be pushing a lot more.

We should. But I suspect those who matter won't be listening.

Remember that Bush as a big government f*** up. And we all know Obama was the better choice.

The fact that Obama's fiscal policies don't look any different from Bush's to me, is irrelevant.

Tell me who has the resources, and the will, to rail against the crap we get from our MSM.

This story is right on the financial mark, but the MSM is never going to tell it.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

When someone giveth with their right hand and taketh with their left, you're still left with jack and shit, despite how the dance is entertaining to those bystanders watching.

Yeah. Okay. But I'll tell you a little secret to go along with this.

The US MSP (MainStream Public) has been divided, about half and half, since the day the US was born. We once fought a civil war because of it.

So what we get for choices today, ain't nothin' new.

You can say it sucks. But tell me how you're going to manage putting a better option on the table. And I don't mean Theoretical Libertopia, which doesn't exist and hasn't sold to the MSP yet.

[libertymike]

Ebeneezer-

I am embarking upon a quest to be a media giant. Thus, I am in the process of acquiring the resources to rail against the crap we get from our MSM. You know that I already have the will. Would you like an equity position?

[BPC]

"a stalwart friend of free markets and small government in Congress"

Who voted for the TARP on the second vote. Real stalwart.

[Invisible Finger]

So what? They'll refinance in a couple years and then sell before it resets. Or something like that.

[Invisible Finger]

The debt service is in nominal dollars; inflation actually makes the number better.

Yeah. And we ALWAYS have inflation. Except when we don't. Like now, for example.

[GILMORE]

Where's Warren?

doom

Doom

DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think i got it wrong

[Fuck this isn\'t right either]

doom

DooM

DOOOM

and if Paul Ryan voted for TARP he is socialist scum

[libertarian Getting Fucking Ti]

The perfect libertarian final solution: let folks live who currently and always have agreed with me on 100.1% of all issues.

Shoot anyone who has ever, or ever will, deviate from any of my beliefs.

Fuck everyone who says we should keep our guns pointed outwards.

[Mike]

"The perfect libertarian final solution: let folks live who currently and always have agreed with me on 100.1% of all issues.

Shoot anyone who has ever, or ever will, deviate from any of my beliefs.

Fuck everyone who says we should keep our guns pointed outwards."

Ok, fine, I understand. Perfect is the enemy of good. But isn't bad also the enemy of good? Is "slightly lower income taxes" really how low the bar has been set to qualify for "stalwart friend of free markets and small government"?

[Mike]

"Yeah. And we ALWAYS have inflation. Except when we don't. Like now, for example."

Don't confuse falling prices with deflation. You can definitely have one without the other.

[Nick]

The only problem, he has not been a defender of free markets during this economic crisis.

He fought for the $700 billion bailout.

He fought for the auto bailout!

[Michael Ejercito]

More has been spent on the bailout than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Nigel Watt]

Yeah, fuck this dude.

[bromo98]

That's it? Not even 500 billion? Over 10 years?
Wake me up when it reaches a trillion. Nothing under 12 zero's even registers anymore.

[Nicolas Martin]

He isn't so stalwart that he voted against CPSIA. Only Ron Paul did that.

[JLM]

It appears that this "stalwart friend of free markets and small government" fits that description only when there is a Democratic prez.

[christopher colbert]

Who cares! Let's all buy scratch-off lottery tickets and let the brainy types worry about the "long term cost" and whatnot.

I was promised $1,000 to myself, plus $500 for each of my kids for my vote. I aim to collect. If you don't want your payment, I'll take it...more lottery tickets for me.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

libertymike, you got an IPO in the offing?

If all the libertarians pooled all their resources, would it be enough to make a difference?

Assuming, of course, we don't figure that we all just need to shoot each other first.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

But isn't bad also the enemy of good?

Pick your poison boy.

It's been that way for 233 years and counting.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

Maybe we should all shoot each other and leave all our money to libertymike. Then he can fix everything.

[Paul]

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.), a stalwart friend of free markets and small government in Congress,

He must be a lonely, lonely man.

Remember when I said that the media will find some obscure sitting GOP congressman to blame everything on during the Obama administration? I'm wondering if this is our man?

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

Well then. Do let us shoot him first!

[James Ard]

The problem is not enough people have children these days. There's too many selfish fucks that just don't give a damn if my kids have to work as slaves for China in twenty years. If you are childless and support the stimulus, FUCK YOU.

[Xeones]

If you are childless and support the stimulus, FUCK YOU.

Better.

[R C Dean]

I wonder if, deep down, the Hope for Change in the Obama administration isn't for a nice stout rate of inflation for awhile as a way to reduce the debt burden they are piling up on their non-stimulus wish list.

Of course, if they finance with short-term notes, as I suspect they will, given the current rates, then even inflation won't "help."

[Billy!]

Well I've been hypnotized. $34.7 Billion a year doesn't even sound like all that much to me.

[Turtles]

Some of densetards are missing the point.

CBO provided the numbers, not Ryan.

[Tbone]

The problem is not enough people have children these days. There's too many selfish fucks that just don't give a damn if my kids have to work as slaves for China in twenty years.

Viva la immigracion.

[You should have Voted RP]

"And we all know Obama was the better choice"-

No Ron Paul was the best choice. But sense everyone spent so much time sniffing the piss in their pants after being beaten into picking from douche bags; we got stuck with a Socialist.

See, now if we only had RON PAUL.

[jb]

I know it is a day old, but I would just like to echo Kolohe's point way above. My first thought on reading this post was "That's it? That's a pretty good number!" -- like Kolohe, I was thinking in terms of mortgages. Katherine presents absolutely no contextual argument for why the number should be a source of concern (unless she somehow believes all money spent on debt servicing is somehow suspect). Seriously, that's just ridiculous. And, if Katherine has ever crunched the numbers for a mortgage, it is also disingenuous.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

No Ron Paul was the best choice.

I was being sarcastic.

I also agree with you. But a) Ron Paul shot his own feet by going with the anti-war plank at the RNC, and b) the libertarians found reasons to decide he wasn't good enough.

He wasn't a perfect libertarian, you know, and in the Liber-verse nothing less will ever do.