Meanwhile, Joe the Plumber Is Heading off to Go Cover the Israel-Hamas War for Pajamas TV

No, really.

[Link via Wonkette]

Comments

[underzog]

Joe the Plumber would do a better job than you guys.

Why don't you misnamed Reason clowns rent yourselves out to Stormfront or Thunderbolt magazine and save the cyberspace bandwidth duplication?

"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

[The Angry Optimist]

Northwest Ohio represent!

Maybe we can get Jamie Farr to represent the Ohizzle for the Palestinian side?

[JB Stoner]

They are still publishing The Thunderbolt?

[Pac]

Maybe his talents are better suited to getting that guy his kidney back.

[underzog]

Speaking of offal type reporting, Matty works for the L.A. Times, right?

I doubt Joe the Plumber could ever reach the depths of the sewer that the L.A. Times does in its mid east reporting: At L.A. Times, obscured targets Excerpts from the link,

"In two recent articles, the Los Angeles Times' Ashraf Khalil has consistently omitted key information about Gaza Strip sites targeted by the Israeli army. His selective reporting gives the false impression that Israel makes no effort to avoid harm to civilians, and in fact targets them.

Rayan Home, Doubled as Weapons Cache

Thus, despite addressing the killing of top Hamas official Nizar Rayan and at least 13 of his family members in two separate articles, Khalil does not mention in either article that the Rayans were given warning to evacuate immediately prior to the bombing or that the home was used as a weapons depot....

(snip)
Yet, as reported by the United Nations' Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), a source hardly friendly to Israel, the death of Rayan and his many family members was completely avoidable. The January 2 report states:

The main feature of teh Israeli Air Force (IAF) attacks in the last 24 hours was the escalation in the targeting of residential houses belonging to Hamas leaders and militants. Some 25 such houses were attacked. Most of their residents received prior phone warnings by the IDF, informing them about the intention to bomb the house and advising their evacuation. In some cases the strike occurred only 5 minutes after the call. . .

Among the houses targeted yesterday was the house of Hamas leader Nizar Rayan in Jabaliya Refugee Camp, who refused to evacuate upon being warned of an imminent strike....

(snip)
Jabaliya Mosque

The Los Angeles Times' coverage of the Jan. 2 bombing of a mosque in Jabaliya is again inferior to other major papers'. In the Jan. 3 article, Khalil and abu Alouf report:

Israeli jets Friday targeted a prominent mosque in the Jabaliya refugee camp, along with several homes that the Israelis said belonged to Hamas operatives.

Once again, the Los Angeles Times ignored information provided by the Israeli army that the mosque was used as a storage site....

(snip)
The New York Times, the Independent, and the Washington Post, among others, included this information [that the mosque was used as a storage site] in their reporting...." (end of exerpts)

The sheer snobbery of these neo Communists masquerading as free enterprise types. Maybe if the L.A. times did some honest reporting -- at least to the level of the other Liberal periodicals -- they would not feel the need to smear honest people who are trying to find out what is really going on, instead of cheerleading some of the most vicious terrorists on earth!

"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here."

[KD *please stop me before I li]

An unlicensed plumber named Joe
To cover the war he did go
No license had he
'cause there's no need to be
Licensed if your merely a journo

Let's gather some info by plumber
Dick Nixon tried it one summer
The H 'n' R blog has a joe
He's liberal, but say it ain't so
That a conservative plumber is dumber.

[underzog]

Anyone want to watch me 69 with Lefiti?

"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here."

[NP]

Wrong thread, but this was so scrumptious I couldn't pass up. Check out the question for Lou Dobbs' latest poll:

"If the Vatican seriously objects to the U.S. border fence, should the Catholic church tear down the wall surrounding the Vatican?"

I dunno how to respond to such LOL-worthy demagogy. What a nutjob.

[underzog]

My my my.... Someone just stole my name. Trying to pair me with some Lefiti?

I expect dirty tricks from you guys so I just take your imitating smears in stride.

[Terry]

Matt used to work at the LA times, not anymore.

Journalists report facts. If a journalist doesn't repoort the facts he is not a good journalist.
That is it.
Joe the plumber reports the facts he is better then all the other journalists who don't.
You don't need a journalism degree. That is utter horseshit.

[Libertymike]

Underzog-

Quick! What nation has violated more U.N. resolutions than the rest of the world combined?

[underzog]

I thought Matt was just hired there. Did he leave of his own accord? Did they fire him for non Liberal reporting?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Terry]

Matt,
It is actually "Yes, really" the response. Not, "No, really."
Think about it.

[Libertymike]

Shouldn't reporters begin every piece concerning Gaza with reminding their readers, listeners and viewers that "Israel, of course, is a nation that was birthed by terrorism as witnessed by the King David Hotel Massacre where doazens of women and children were brutally murdered by a terrorist gang headed by former Israeli Prime Minister Meachem Begin."

In the interest of being fair and balanced.

[underzog]

LMike,

Those Jewhaters?

The UN be damned. World opinion be damned too, pal.

I would hope at some point Israel and the United States would leave the U.N. and the U.S. move the U.N. to Ridyah or Geneva.

[Libertymike]

Terry-

No, think about it. Matt is right. Language is fluid. Part of that fluidity is the development of idioms. Hence, the use of "No, really" would be understood by most amercian listeners to mean "yes".

[Libertymike]

Underzog-

I'm with ya on evicting the U.N. from Hy...er, New York.

[underzog]

LMike,

This "I'm with ya on evicting the U.N. from Hy...er, New York." reminds me of something Jesse Jackson, Sr. said.

He said it at the time I was in "Jews against Jackson."

It sure brings back memories.

[I am Israel\'s Average Joe\'s]

he wants to let Israel's "'Average Joes' share their story."

[Libertymike]

Underzog-

No, really. I abhor the U.N. and its philosophical underpinnings. I cite the violations of its resolutions to underscore the fact that I am not alone in observing that Israel is a pariah state with a propensity to committ mass murder.

Earlier today, on another thread, I cited Uncle Joe to support the proposition that democracy is a fraud. It doesn't mean that I would have loved to have had the opportunity to sniff Stalin's scrotum.

[thoreau]

His 15 minutes expired A LONG TIME AGO.

Go away, already!

[Cliche]

His 15 minutes expired A LONG TIME AGO.

What an original statement.

[nobody u no and a big fan of j]

is the joe of reason the plumber joe guy.

totally wow.

no wonder so many were mocking him in the other threads.

not sure if i can still support him after he made obama look bad during that meeting on the street.

[underzog]

LMike,

A pariah state?

Big f'kn deal. The tannakh says of us Jews that we're "a people who dwell alone and are not to be reckoned with other nations."

The primal screaming against the Jewish State and the Jews today ( Hamas kristallnacht USA 2008: another synagogue attacked ) is something that we have to deal with. And it can't be dealt with by appeasement and joining our enemies in supporting Israel's destruction.

As Rabbi Meir Kahane, Zt"l said, "It is better to have an Israel that is hated than an Auschwitz that is loved."

That certainly makes sense to me.

[nobody u no and a big fan of j]

underzog, dude, you need to mellow and so do the children picking on you man.

[Joe Fattal]

The UN school in Gaza get blown up. Doesn't that remind you a same incident happened in Lebanon during the Hezbolah war, when the IDF I bet purposely hit a UN observation post and killed few of their officers. I don't believe too much in coincidence, I bet the one in Gaza was deliberatly hit. As they also told reporters to stay out of Gaza. I guess the IDF don't like too many observers, and want the UN out of Gaza. That would make the international force very hesitant to move in the area.

[Libertymike]

Thoreau-

Why are we so quick to warholize the average joe? And with such emphasis? We don't seem to apply the same standard to celebrities, be they ball players, movie stars, talk show hosts or politicians.

Please do not take offense at my queries. My post is not intended to be a swipe at you. I must confess I have used the 15 minute thing before-though I do not like it. Its just something that I have pondered, our culture's double standard with this issue. If we are so sick of Joe the Plumber, the Run-away-Bride, Lorena Bobbit, Drew Peterson, etc., then what is wrong with us if we have not died a thousand deaths already with the likes of Liz Taylor, Britney Spears, Brett Favre, Manny being Manny, Jen and Ben, Bennifer, Jen and Brad, GWB, Chucky Schumer, Teddy Kenedy, Jesse Jackson, Obama, the "war hero" McCain, etc.?

[Libertymike]

nobody u no-

Joe has been critical of Israel's actions. I don't have to remind you of MNG's posts over the weekend, do I? Just thought I should tell ya.

[underzog]

Hamas should not commit warcrimes by firing from schools so they can get people killed on their front.

Hamas are war criminals for firing on Israeli civilians in Sderot; etc., and also for rigging the school so there would be multiple explosions Did the United Nations set up civilians to be killed to discredit Israel? (excerpt from the link)

It is now a proven fact that Hamas terrorists were using a United Nations (UNRWA) school in the Gaza Strip as a position from which to shell Israel. When the Israeli Defense Forces returned the terrorists' fire, a shell struck the terrorists' booby traps and the resulting secondary explosions killed thirty or more civilians who had taken refuge at what they believed to be a noncombatant or neutral building.

[underzog]

MNG (Mr. Nice Guy) is misnamed -- and so is Fluffy.

[highnumber]

So is Joe the Plumber.

[Naga Sadow]

Underdogz, you fool!!! Hamas followers are heroes! Saviors of the faithful! Defenders of a humbled people! Donate now!

[Elemenope]

The tannakh says of us Jews that we're "a people who dwell alone and are not to be reckoned with other nations."

It also says that rabbits chew cud and you can sell your daughter into slavery. Appeals to dead texts are the most boring of all.

Oh, and point of reality: the Tanakh *says* nothing. It is inanimate, words on a scroll. You *read* from it and inject yourself, your fears and hopes, prejudices and appetites, into that reading. Such is unavoidable, whether or not the words themselves are inspired by God.

[underzog]

Rabbits don't have a split hoof.

[Elemenope]

Rabbits don't have a split hoof.

Brilliant non sequitor. I wasn't arguing as to the Kashrut categories, I was arguing as to the text's *obvious and stupid observation fail*. One might think if God built the fuckers, he'd know how their parts work.

[Libertymike]

underzog-

Major Anital Leibovitz? You can't be serious.

[underzog]

It has always bothered, seeing atheists as cheerleaders and defenders of Islam.

Atheists are supposed to be for reason and logic and they defend and do political analingus to an illogical death cult? Outrageous!

Judaism has Maimomodies (sp) who admired Aristotle and was a pretty good physician for his time. Christianity has Albert Magnamus and St. Thomas Acquinas (St. Thomas brought Aristotleanism to Europe), but Islam's greatest philosopher Averros left no school and was and is shunned by the majority of Muslims.

What the f... are non believers doing being cheerleaders for some deathcult and their little rock God, Allah (Jallah)?

I never expected atheists to act like this and I admit I an extremely dissapointed.

One doesn't need idiots to attack other religions only to support Islam or anti-Semitic hatred against the Jews!

[Libertymike]

underzog-

Seriously, I just don't trust anybody or anything that is in the public sector or anybody or anything that depends upon or otherwise is subsidized by the gvt. Particularly if the somebody is in the warfare part of the public sector of a nation state that is subsidized by Elemenope's, Joe's and MNG's hard earned money, forcibly taken from them, in order for that somebody to do some ethnic cleansing.

[Libertymike]

Underzog-

You are assuming facts not in evidence to the extent your 9:10 post was directed at me. First, I'm the guy that told Ron Bailey that when I see a Big Bang, I'll be a believer. Second, the world would be infiniely better without Mecca, Medina and Mohammed.

[Major Avital Leibovich]

Pic at bottom of this page.

[Elemenope]

Judaism has Maimomodies (sp) who admired Aristotle and was a pretty good physician for his time. Christianity has Albert Magnamus and St. Thomas Acquinas (St. Thomas brought Aristotleanism to Europe), but Islam's greatest philosopher Averros left no school and was and is shunned by the majority of Muslims.

While Moses ben Maimon was arguably the most important *to* Judaism (and his impact outside of Judaism was remarkably contained to theology via negativa), most philosophers consider Spinoza to be the greatest Jewish philosopher.

And, oddly enough, the Jewish community reacted to Spinoza pretty much the same way the Muslim community reacted to Averroes.

[Guy Montag]

IDF chicks are hot!

Libertymike, so can you trust what I say because I work for a Defense Contractor rather than directly for the feds? Or am I completly untrustworthy?

[Guy Montag]

Little recognized fact: Tel Aviv is but a swallows flight from Gaza. Yes, bith African and European.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Maybe if the Europeans gave the Jews back all the property they stole, the Jews could move back to Europe and leave Israel to the Palestinians.

Oh wait, Jews don't have the Right of Return. Sorry.

[Guy Montag\'s Clever Pop Cultu]

But, was it unladen?

[The Wine Commonsewer]

IDF chicks are hot!

Doubtless!

Should I post that Rachel Papo link again?

[beavis.]

Two points:

IDF chicks= hot indeed.

I am curious to read some Joe the Plumber stuff, it will probably not be any good. But really can it be any worse?

[underzog]

Highly doubtful that the Jewish community rejected Aristotleanism as the Muslims did.

It's not an accident that the the Jews with their tiny population have so many nobel prizes in math and science while the Muslims with their enormous population have so little.

There's a saying (I'm not quite sure of the words) that while the Muslims are working on their umpteenth homicide bombing, the Jews are working on their umpteenth Nobel Prize

[Guy Montag]

But, was it unladen?

Close enough for even a laden swallow. Where do you think Hamas got the coconuts?

[Guy Montag]

underzog,

Watch out! The leftoids will label you 'eurocentric' for that Nobel Prize bit.

[underzog]

Hugo's URL hyperlinked. Demonstrators chant that Jews should go to the ovens. "You need a big oven."

[Elemenope]

Highly doubtful that the Jewish community rejected Aristotleanism as the Muslims did.

Spinoza was not an Aristotelian. But while we are on the subject, during the Rambam's lifetime, his work was extremely controversial amongst his fellow rabbis, who were not at all thrilled by his importation of Greek and Arabic principles into Jewish thought.

BTW, if you are going to make cracks about Jewish intellectual superiority, it might be wise to read more carefully and attempt to comprehend what is being asserted.

[underzog]

Elemenope:

"BTW, if you are going to make cracks about Jewish intellectual superiority, it might be wise to read more carefully and attempt to comprehend what is being asserted."

I don't get what you're saying, Elemenope.

Do you think homicide bombing is a good thing? Is it on par with Nobel Prizes in math and science?

I have to keep away from athiests now with their newfound love of Islam. The support of this murderous primitivism and bloodlust is so disgusting coming from people one expects to uphold reason and logic.

Maybe Debbie Schlussel was right when she said she wasn't suprised that so many atheists support the barbaric deathcult of Islam.

"Those two people [Adam Gahan and John Walker Lindh] are enemies of America, and many of those who think like them are of equally weak mind. If you don't believe in anything, you'll easily fall for virtual nothings."

Debbie Schlussel

[underzog]

I don't know, Guy....

Since someone on Hit & Run hijacked/imitated my nickname to claim I want sexual situations with someone whose name I never saw before this Joe the Plumber folder, I better skedaddle before some nasty Hit and Runner goes further and hacks my computer.

Shalom everybody!

[Guy Montag]

Wow, that is funny/creepy. I am listening to the first episode of Off the Hook in ages as you contemplate your computer being hacked!

[Elemenope]

Do you think homicide bombing is a good thing? Is it on par with Nobel Prizes in math and science?

Your analogy is patent idiocy. The vast majority of Muslims do not engage in acts of violence towards *anyone*. The reason why there aren't many Nobel prizes coming out of Muslim countries is that they tend to be in poverty, and so are lacking education, facilities, and other infrastructure.

[Adam]

"Homicide bombing" is an idiotic redundancy. The bombs dropped on London during the blitz were "homicide bombs." Car bombs are homicide bombs (assuming they kill anyone). For some strange reason, some people seem to think that "suicide bombing" is a nicey-nice politically correct term that's just a euphemism for something terrible. I have never quite understood why that is. Suicide bombing seems to nicely capture the concept of an individual committing a bombing that takes his or her own life. And suicide bombings are called such regardless of whether they actually kill anyone else.

Anyway, it's nice to see that Hit & Run believes in freedom of speech, even to the point that it doesn't censor loathsome racist drivel like some of what is posted above. Everyone's entitled to his or her (bigoted) opinion.

There's nothing wrong with quoting disgusting people (like Stalin, mentioned above). But when you do it in a way that suggests that you think they're great, there's something horribly wrong with you. Meir Kahane was a despicable blot on the human race. Kind of like a demented, racist version of Stalin, actually (I won't invoke the obvious Germanic name, lest I infringe on Godwin's law).

I think there really are some people out there who think that every single Arab (or indeed, Muslim) on Earth owes everybody else an apology for having had to temerity to have been born. Although I suppose if you think such people are "lice" (to quote the late Israeli minister of tourism), then I suppose such a belief comes quite naturally.

[Rick H.]

Thread so far: 44 percent pro-Israel-status quo rantings by one troll.

Jesus Christ, at least the Ultimate Anonymity creep keeps it down to a handful of five-word posts. This one throws out assfuls of secondhand, unsupported spatter like "...so many atheists support the barbaric deathcult of Islam."

Also, anyone who posts on HnR with a self-promoting sig line needs to take a long vacation in Gaza.

[Elemenope]

Also, anyone who posts on HnR with a self-promoting sig line needs to take a long vacation in Gaza.

"Without me, the alphabet has no soul!"

😉

[madmikefisk]

Why not? If he's able to milk his fifteen minutes of fame into a job opportunity, then God bless him. That, after all, is America.

[Elemenope]

Why not? If he's able to milk his fifteen minutes of fame into a job opportunity, then God bless him. That, after all, is America.

At first I was confused as to whom you were referring, as I was distracted by the thread-consuming rants of Underzog. But then I realized, well fuck! He's talking about the article! 😉

And yeah, if someone wants his opinions and/or latent reporting skillz badly enough to pay him, more power to him.

[Terry]

I got it. Who would you pick for Senator:
Joe the plumber or Caroline Kennedy.
Didn't Caroline do some interviews? I know both John F Kennedy and Jackie O were both newspaper reporters and John John founded George magazine.
Who is the better reporter: Joe the plumber or Caroline?
Actually they would make a great interview team.
the possibilities.

[Bill Ayers]

"'Homicide bombing' is an idiotic redundancy."

Not according to me.

[Not a contributer to the site]

And yeah, if someone wants his opinions and/or latent reporting skillz badly enough to pay him, more power to him.

Heck, it worked for Megan McArdle.

[I spel gud really]

"contributor"

(though Yglesias proved you don't need accuracy in your English to write for the Atlantic)

[kanabiis]

Maybe I am stoned, but does anyone else find the irony in the fact that an alleged Jew is heralding the superiority of the Jewish people above all others?

A master race if you will......

While this may only be anecdotal evidence, but 12 days of reading discussion forums like H&R, Fark, Digg, Slashdot etc, there seems to be quite a bit of this Jewish Pride type trolling, well at least I hope its trolling.

Would be a shame that even after 5-6 million or so Jews slaughtered in the name of a Master Race that only a few generations later, the same sick cancer would begin to spread among the Jewish youth.

Avi Shlaim has a very interesting piece in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

[Blah]

Thanks for adding a lot to the conversation, Rick H.

[alan]

Ghaad, I've successfully avoided the Israelis-Palestinian threads until now, as I assumed this one would be humorously inclined given the subject of J the P, but damn, this primitivist tribal shit spouted by the underzogs of the world always makes me feel a little bit more bitter about the human race.

As every day of turmoil passes, and every year of violence that sustains the existence of the state of Israel is marked, you know who starts looking much better through the dim eye of history? The Romans.

[Elemenope]

As every day of turmoil passes, and every year of violence that sustains the existence of the state of Israel is marked, you know who starts looking much better through the dim eye of history? The Romans.

Yuck. When the Romans start looking good, it's time to face the fact that you have an alcohol problem. 😉

[alan]

Yuck. When the Romans start looking good, it's time to face the fact that you have an alcohol problem. 😉

LOL! Hey, does Sophia Loren count? I have no idea what part of Italy she is from though?

[alan]

then again, even if she is Roman, if the first star I can think of career began fifty years ago is from that region, maybe they don't look so good.

[Elemenope]

Hey, does Sophia Loren count? I have no idea what part of Italy she is from though?

Yes, and, believe it or not, Rome.

[alan]

for some reason I almost assumed it.

I can vouch for the beauty of Milanese women. I had a study partner in college from there. Interestingly, her dad was the cities communist party boss at that very time they dropped communism from their name. She gave me some of the new stickers her dad sent her with the new party name, quite spiffy looking.

[crimpy]

Maybe I am stoned, but does anyone else find the irony in the fact that an alleged Jew is heralding the superiority of the Jewish people above all others?

Maybe you're stoned but certainly you're an idiot. We're not supposed to notice differences in achievement between different groups because to do so promotes a "master race" theory which leads to Auschwitz? Pure idiocy.

[crapula]

Next: Joe the Plumber is appointed imperial governor of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Elemenope]

We're not supposed to notice differences in achievement between different groups because to do so promotes a "master race" theory which leads to Auschwitz?

No. What you're not supposed to do is come up with cockamamie post hoc "explanations" for why one group outperforms another, as Underzog did to which kanabiis was responding. Empirically, it is simply far more likely that prevailing economic conditions in the relevant parts of the world better account for differences in achievement than some half-baked notion of racial superiority. kanabiis noted the *crushing irony* of certain people coming to embrace the same *type* of ideology that led to that group's near-extinction.

And, yes, once an ideology of natural superiority takes hold, it leads to nowhere pretty. You don't have to open ovens to be a complete dick, you know.

[Right Wing Realist]

Joe the Plumber is more qualified to be President than Barack Obama. At least Joe has built an actual, honest, profitable business while Barack has been sucking at the state's teat.

[Right Wing Realist]

No. What you're not supposed to do is come up with cockamamie post hoc "explanations" for why one group outperforms another, as Underzog did to which kanabiis was responding. Empirically, it is simply far more likely that prevailing economic conditions in the relevant parts of the world better account for differences in achievement than some half-baked notion of racial superiority.

Disease succeptability, body type, and other things can be correlated to race. But IQ? NO NO NO NO LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU WITH THIS WESTERN LIBERAL SECULARISM FIRMLY OVER MY EARS!!!!

[Right Wing Realist]

I need to quit my job and go work in a DC agency so I can keep even posting with all you guys.

[Right Wing Realist]

Maybe I am stoned, but does anyone else find the irony in the fact that an alleged Jew is heralding the superiority of the Jewish people above all others?

Whether it be culture or genetics, they are clearly doing something right.

[jtuf]

I think the over achievement of Jews can be explained by the ban on Jewish farmers. Outside the US, before the Enlightenmen, most nations banned Jews from owning land or working on farms. Since farming took up arround 95% of the labor supply, that meant Jews were 20 times over represented in the non-farm sector. There they developed non-farm skills that they passed on from generation to generation, because for most of history, people ended up with the same careers as their parents. When the agricultural revolution automated farming and made non-farming skills more valuable, Jews were already trained in those fields. Southern US Jews also benefited from being in non-farm careers. When the Civil War loss collapsed the farm economy, they still had a livelihood. It just goes to show, developing marketable skills is a much better strategy than fighting over natural resources.

[jtuf]

While Jewish over achievement is real, I think a sampling bias tends to exaggerate it. Einstine and Sandler make the news. My brother, the starving artist, doesn't. Someone who never met a Jew in person might think they are all in Hollywood, when in reality El Paso and New Orleans have Jewish congregations as well. If I only knew Catholics from the news, I would think the Kennedies were a representative family.

[jtuf]

kanabiis | January 8, 2009, 1:29am | #

Maybe I am stoned, but does anyone else find the irony in the fact that an alleged Jew is heralding the superiority of the Jewish people above all others?

I hope you bought that pot from a medical marijuana dispensary. Support the cause:

Buy only legal pot

[jtuf]

The Wine Commonsewer | January 7, 2009, 9:56pm | #

Maybe if the Europeans gave the Jews back all the property they stole, the Jews could move back to Europe and leave Israel to the Palestinians.

Oh wait, Jews don't have the Right of Return. Sorry.

Half of Israelis are Sephardic, so the Arabs would also have to return the land and property stolen from those Sephardim. Arab states would then have to grant religious freedom and equality to all their citizens so Sephardim could live there with their full rights.

[jtuf]

I think underdog's comment on noble prizes highlighted a difference in values. There was nothing racist about it. Jews could have reacted to the farming ban by burning down European villiages. Instead, they foccused on their own survival and on making the world better. They're more likely to move and rebuild than to resort to violence. During the Spanish Inquisition, the US and the Ottoman Empire welcomed Jewish refuges, and Jews moved there. German Jews moved to the US in the 19th century to escape turmoil and economic discrimination. Russian Jews moved to the US and Israel in the late 19th century/early 20th century to escape the pograms. Sephardic Jews moved to Israel in the 1940's and 1950's from Arab lands to escape persecution. Jews would much rather build up the societies that accept them than to tear down societies that dislike them.

[jtuf]

Underzog,
There are different camps among Atheists, just like there are different camps among Muslims. Objectivists tend to stand up to Muslim dictators, while Communists tend to appease them. The peaceful Muslims of Albania and Kosovo are a sharp contrast to Hamas. Albania was a refuge to Jews during the Holocaust, and the Albanian Jewish community was the only community in Europe that grew during WWII. The new Muslim country of Kosovo respects all religions and is pro-America and pro-Israel.

[Guy Montag]

Matt,

Matt, Matt, Matt, who is Reason sending to Gaza to report the other side?

[Yeshiva Bocher]

Not to mention that we're bred for our brains: It's an honor for a Yiddishe Maidel/Mamma to support my studies her whole life and bear more like me and her! So what's not to like?

[Elemenope]

Sephardic Jews moved to Israel in the 1940's and 1950's from Arab lands to escape persecution. Jews would much rather build up the societies that accept them than to tear down societies that dislike them.

These two sentences, juxtaposed, yield a startling contradiction.

Disease succeptability, body type, and other things can be correlated to race. But IQ? NO NO NO NO LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU WITH THIS WESTERN LIBERAL SECULARISM FIRMLY OVER MY EARS!!!!

Moving past the part where that was childish, you are shifting the entirety of the argument to suit your snark. Neither of us said anything about IQ. The argument was about the (IMO false) dichotomy between "murderers" (who Underzog correlated with Muslims) and "Nobel Prize winners" (who Underzog correlated with Jews). Beyond the fact that the dichotomy is absurd on its face, one can reasonably react to the fact that it was set up along strictly racial/cultural lines.

Also, as a supposed "realist", you should be whining a great deal about the *disproportionality* of the Israeli response in Gaza.

If you were a realist.

[Mo]

1300s underzog:

It is apparent that Europeans are an inferior race capable only of violence, invasion and tearing down societies more technologically and socially advanced than their own. It is obvious that Muslims and Arabs are the superior race and culture.

[Mr. Godwin]

Joe the Plumber's real name is Samuel Wurzelbacher.

Ya know WHO ELSE had guys named Wurzelbacher on his payroll?

Adolph Hitler.

Makes ya think...

[R C Dean]

Why not? If he's able to milk his fifteen minutes of fame into a job opportunity, then God bless him.

His fifteen minutes, after all, is entirely the creation of frothing Obamanauts trying to tear him down. If they hadn't broken the law and tried to smear him, he would be a footnote to a footnote. Instead, they gave him a nice high media profile. Exactly like what happens when the hated fundies rant against a movie.

I say go for it. He's as qualified as most journalists. If he doesn't have a knack for it, then nothing will come of it.

[Mo]

RC,
His 15 minutes was due to McCain mentioning him about 200 times in a single debate. It was only after that, when the media started asking his opinion, did people try to tear him down. I wish they had succeeded.

[joe]

I think the over achievement of Jews can be explained by the ban on Jewish farmers.

I think there's something to this. However, there's a reason why European Jews were able to succeed in the effort to establish themselves so strongly in the merchant and professional economies: because Judaism, even in the ancient world, made literacy a religious obligation.

[joe]

His fifteen minutes, after all, is entirely the creation of frothing Obamanauts trying to tear him down.

Right, remember when they made John McCain mention him 27 times in a nationally televised debate and take him on the road as a spokes-mascot?>

Mean, mean Obamanauts! All the guy wanted to do was live a private life, away from celebrity and politics.

[Elemenope]

I wish they had succeeded.

Why?

[R C Dean]

Check your timelines, folks. Joe asked his question of Obama, and within a day Obamanauts in state government were breaking the law to look at his records, and hit pieces were breaking out all over the blogosphere, setting up the chain reaction.

Sure, McCain used him. Would he have mentioned him so much if there wasn't already a big media foofaraw? Dunno. But I do know the attack dogs were loosed immediately, before McCain wrote him into his spiel.

[joe]

Check your timelines, folks. Joe asked his question of Obama...and then he became a hero on right-wing blogs, and then the McCain campaign itself picked up on him.

Would he have mentioned him so much if there wasn't already a big media foofaraw? Of course not. That's why they created one.

[Wait, what?]

During the Spanish Inquisition, the US and the Ottoman Empire welcomed Jewish refuges

The Spanish Inquisition didn't expect the United States.

[LurkerBold]

joe is right. It was the Republican War Machine that blew the Plumber up into a media frenzy. They were probably assisted by their wealthy allies in mainstream media.

Check your timelines and country club connections.

[realist]

Empirically, it is simply far more likely that prevailing economic conditions in the relevant parts of the world better account for differences in achievement than some half-baked notion of racial superiority.

No. Empirically, it is far more likely that the prevailing economic conditions in the relevant parts of the world are correlated to the abilities and mindset of the inhabitants of those parts of the world.

[joshua corning]

Is it wrong of me to not care a bit about Israel and Palestine and the whole fucking mess any longer?

Judaism, even in the ancient world, made literacy a religious obligation.

Bingo

2 points for the hack named joe for getting something right.

[kanabiis]

Realist, do you even think about what you type before you type it, or is your general understanding of the history of human civilization so lacking that you actually believe what you typed.

Large civilizations have been built by every culture and every race of humans. While the Muslims may not be the beacon of civilization in 2009, at one time in history the region of the world now occupied by Iran/Iraq/Eqypt etc. was the cradle of economic, scientific and social civilization while Europe wallowed in what we now call the Dark Ages. But I guess those dumb Europeans at the time were just not as smart as those Muslims in Jerusalem.

You laud the nobel prizes awarded to Jewish people, and completely disregard the fact that Islamic mathematicians gave us algebra, calculus, geometry, advanced breakthroughs in astronomy the very foundations of modern science. Are you going to argue that these contributions are somehow insignificant?

I suppose you are going to argue that North Korea is not an economic powerhouse in the world because the North Korean people are just stupid, it has nothing to do with the social and political circumstances. Certainly if those North Koreans were just a little smarter, they would be able to compete.. too bad they are too dumb right??

[jtuf]

kanabiis,

The contributions Muslims made to mathematics and the sciences centuries ago are amazing. They prove that Islam is compatible with rational thought and advancement. However, most of today's Muslim majority countries are not living up to that heritage. It's a matter of priorities, not IQ. The Muslim empires that made those historic advances focused more on development than on conquest. Groups like Hamas focus so much energy on trying to destroy Israel, they don't take care of building their country. Hamas is still fueling dozens of rocket launches into Israel each day, even though doing so means diverting fuel from hospital electricity generators and causing energy shortages there. That is Hama's priorities, and until it changes, I won't expect any new discoveries from Gaza.

[jtuf]

Wait, what? | January 8, 2009, 1:22pm | #

During the Spanish Inquisition, the US and the Ottoman Empire welcomed Jewish refuges

The Spanish Inquisition didn't expect the United States.

LOL

Funny story, when New Orleans was still in Spanish hands, the Inquisition sent a priest there to spread the persecution. The party loving New Orleanians mellowed him out so much he never started the process.

[jtuf]

It's worth noting that the current leaders in technology among Muslim majority countries are Malaysia (home of the Petronas Towers) and United Arab Emirates (home of Dubai). Both have taken a more tolerant approach towards non-Muslims. When they live and let live, Muslims achive technological wonders.

[steve the home improver]

Meanwhile, Joe the Plumber Is Heading off to Go Cover the Israel-Hamas War for Pajamas TV

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Is he the first? I could swear I heard of a Calgary plumber doing something like this. Maybe there's something about the war reporter field that's inherently fascinating to plumbers. Best of luck Joe, I admire your moxie.