I Learned It From Watching You, Dad!

According to ABC News political correspondent Brian Ross, "Senate Candidate #5," the unnamed public official who, according to wiretaps of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, would fork over a cool million dollars to be named successor to President-elect Obama in the Senate, is Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.

According to the FBI affidavit in the case, Blagojevich "stated he might be able to cut a deal with Senate Candidate 5 that provided ROD BLAGOJEVICH" with something "tangible up front."

Jackson Jr. said this morning he was contacted yesterday by federal prosecutors in Chicago who he said "asked me to come in and share with them my insights and thoughts about the selection process."

Jackson Jr. said "I don't know" when asked if he was Candidate #5, but said he was told "I am not a target of this investigation." 

[…]

"Senate Candidate #5" played a key role in the Governor's efforts to obtain something of value in exchange for the Senate appointment, according to the FBI affidavit.

According to the affidavit, Blagojevich threatened to appoint Senate Candidate #5 if President-elect Barack Obama refused to help get his wife on "paid corporate boards right now."

"If they feel like they can do this and not f***ing give me anything…then I'll f***ing go [to Senate Candidate 5]."

All the sordid details are here.

Comments

[J sub D]

Please, PLEASE tell me that sponsored links in the middle of a post is just an internet fuckup and not some sort of revenue enhancement feature at Hit & Run.

[Josh]

I thought the Jacksons only spent money on child support.

[J sub D]

A member of the Jackson family unethically or illegally cutting a self serving deal that benefits only himself?

Say it ain't so, Jesse!

[adrian]

so is it illegal to offer 500k for a senate seat?

[Naga Sadow]

What the fuck? Is that an AD in the middle of an article? Whatever bros . . .

[Naga Sadow]

Anyway . . . is JJ jr. a bizarro world cross of civil rights leader and con artist like his dad?

[PC]

And I always thought the Jackson family was only good at shakedowns. In the end I might still be right.

[J sub D]

Y'know, it would be nice if we had some sort of regular Democratic shill, a blue team spimmeister here at H&R to expolain how this is only an aberration of Dem politics. That the donkey party really cares about the little people and aren't just in it for the power and the dineros. Unlike the GOP.

[Red Stater]

Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick! We elected someone who climbed to the top of the Chicago cess poll, and the country will pay the price. Blago is a crook just like Rezko, and they both know Obama. Drip, drip, drip...

[joe]

Jackson Jr. said this morning he was contacted yesterday by federal prosecutors in Chicago who he said "asked me to come in and share with them my insights and thoughts about the selection process."

So, Congressman: do you have any thoughts on who would make a good appointment to the Senate? And also, do you mind if we check your freezer?

[sage]

Haha. I like the ad for Oprah's diet plan. Isn't she a behemoth again?

[Shannon Love]

Given the political culture of Illinois, with its corruption complex of large invasive government, a patronage system and powerful public unions, I think we will see a lot of scandals from the state dogging Obama throughout his term.

I am sure that Republicans at the national level will put money into digging up any dirt in the state they can find. Even if Obama isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought with him from Illinois is to some degree. It's simply to hard to do politics in the state without getting one's hand's dirty.

[R C Dean]

Question: why weren't the Senate candidates named in the indictment?

Question: do you suppose JJ Jr's testimony would be sufficiently valuable that it would be worth immunizing him and letting him walk?

Question: if JJ Jr is immunized and testifies that he was part of a scheme to buy the Senate seat, does that help him or hurt him in Illinois politics?

[joe]

J sub D,

Ha ha! Maybe if you didn't have such a strong narrative about the parties in your head, this wouldn't keep happening to you.

Red Stater | December 10, 2008, 12:11pm | #

Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick!

You mean the guy who Blagalphabet keeps ranting and swearing about because he won't commit corrupt acts?

You know, there's an easy way to tell the difference between people who are genuinely concerned about political corruption, and those who throw around accusations for partisan purposes. The former make a big deal of distinguishing between corrupt people and honest people, and the latter go out of their way to blur the lines between them.

[J sub D]

Oh noes! The fucking ads embedded in the post are changing. It's a revenue enhancement feature.

Nick, make the bad people with advertisements go aweay. At least move them back to the margins where I can ignore them.

I'm beggiong here.

[LGF Fan]

RezkoAyersWrightBlago. RezkoAyersWrightBlago. RezkoAyersWrightBlago....I mean it worked wonderfully as an election strategy, so let's continue it!

[Oprah]

That's a Leviathan to you mister.

[BDB]

Is this going to be Whitewater for the 2010s?

[joe]

Even if Obama isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought with him from Illinois is to some degree.

Who has he brought with him from Illinois? Something I've found odd is just how few hangers-on from his Chicago days are getting jobs in the Obama adminstration.

Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod are the only names I can think of.

[J sub D]

joe,

Whatever made you think I was referring to anybody in particular? Especially you?

[joe]

BDB | December 10, 2008, 12:16pm | #

Is this going to be Whitewater for the 2010s?

Imagine an alternate Whitewater, where the McDougals are caught on FBI tape cussing out Bill and Hillary because they wouldn't play ball..

Oh, and in this universe, Bill can keep it in his pants.

[Naga Sadow]

Shoe fits thats why.

[wayne]

The smeller's the feller...

[sage]

Who has he brought with him from Illinois?

Isn't his chief of staff from there?

[joe]

J sub D | December 10, 2008, 12:17pm | #

joe,

Whatever made you think I was referring to anybody in particular? Especially you?

Because I have an IQ that's above room temperature?

Because half your posts these days consist of whining about what a terrible partisan I am?

[BDB]

But yeah, it's pretty clear the biggest loser in this besides Blago himself is JJ Jr.

[joe]

sage,

Isn't his chief of staff from there?

Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month explaining, is a Clintonite.

Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not in the local political machine.

[David]

Oprah wins the thread!

[Episiarch]

Now if JJ Jr. would only refer to Chicago as "Polacktown", everything would be perfect.

[Naga Sadow]

On a somewhat related note: OJ's four accomplices walk away with . . . probation!

[sage]

Thanks for clearing that up joe. I didn't follow it all that closely.

[sage]

Why is that related, Naga. You saying Obama was involved with armed robbery and kidnapping?

[J sub D]

Because I have an IQ that's above room temperature?

Debatable.

Because half your posts these days consist of whining about what a terrible partisan I am?

Typical joe exagerration. I take an occasional shot at partisans wearing blinders, you included. Does it disturb your Wa?

[domoarrigato]

Bets on JJ getting indicted?

[P Brooks]

"Senate Candidate #5," the unnamed public official who, according to wiretaps of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, would fork over a cool million dollars to be named successor to President-elect Obama in the Senate

It's an investment which will pay a handsome return; I say "Go for it."

Being an at-large "Reverend" apparently pays better than I ever imagined.

[P Brooks]

The fucking ads embedded in the post are changing. It's a revenue enhancement feature.

AdMan smash puny pop-up blocker!

[James Ard]

Obama would have done better to say he'd discussed the senate seat with Blago, but Blago insanely wanted something for the appointment. Instead he lied about not having any contact with him, which will be proven false by the end of the day. Pretty shitty judgement by the soon to be leader of the semi-free world.

[Shannon Love]

joe,

Who has he brought with him from Illinois?

A lot of people on his campaign staff came from the state. I guess we will have to see who actually gets into his administration. Perhaps Obama will avoid appointments from his home state just a prophylactic measure. That would be smart.

The problem for Obama is that he has to appoint hundreds of people and that gives the Republicans hundreds of targets. Worse, people think that were there is smoke there is fire. Just keeping a steady stream of scandal stories coming out of the state will create the impression that Obama is dirty because he comes from a dirty political culture.

[Naga Sadow]

sage,

I said "somewhat". The relation being that JJ jr should be indicted but I don't think JJ jr will get indicted. I was just reading an article on OJ Simpson. Simpson gets 15 years, the four accomplices got . . . probation.

[BDB]

Is it just me or are Democratic scandals usually way more entertaining than Republican ones?

[sage]

Ask Larry Craig.

[Naga Sadow]

Whoops. Minimum of 9 years . . . sorry. Doing a checklist here.

[SugarFree]

BDB,

anonymous gay sex > run-of-the-mill bribery

[BDB]

"sage | December 10, 2008, 12:35pm | #
Ask Larry Craig."

Monicagate and Spizter > Larry Craig in entertainment value. Read the Starr Report again.

[BDB]

You gotta compare sex scandal to sex scandal, sage.

[sage]

Sorry.

[BDB]

And non sex scandal to non sex scandal. I mean, Ted Stevens or Blago? There's no comparison.

[Syd Henderson]

There's also speculation that #5 is Emil Jones, so don't convict JJ quite yet.

[joe]

Shannon,

A lot of people on his campaign staff came from the state. Right, of course, every candidate does. Think of Rove and Hughes.

The thing is, very few of those people seem to be getting appointments this time, compared to past presidents. Jim Baker, Old Bush's campaign manager, got Secretary of State ferchrissakes.

Of a piece with this is the relatively few positions he's giving to national political supporters. Hillary gets Secretary of State, after trashing him throughout the campaign, while John Kerry stays in the Senate. It looks like Caroline Kennedy's work for him is earning her more points with David Patterson than with Obama!

It's unusual how little he's using his position to reward people with appointments. Maybe, as you suggest, he's bending over backwards to do the opposite, and avoid the taint of cronyism, specifically because being from Chicago opens him up to such charges.

[BDB]

If it's Emil Jones that isn't good for Obama, they were old allies. He better hope its JJ Jr.

[creech]

What's the big deal about this? We already had the advance auction of stolen goods...the election.

[joe]

I mean, Ted Stevens or Blago? There's no comparison.

Duke Cunningham asking for fancy antique furniture on a bribe menu vs. Blago saying, quote, "I want money." On tape.

Now, writing up a bribe menu is a pretty sweet detail, but I've gotta go with the Chicato pol's wife saying "Don't give them shit! Fuck them!" in the thick accent in the background of an tapped phone call.

[J sub D]

Monicagate and Spizter > Larry Craig in entertainment value. Read the Starr Report again.

Agreed. Wide stances don't even compare to stained dresses and paying extra to screw sans condoms.

Even this one is better than GOP bribery scandals. Selling a senate seat outright is far jucier than the run of the mill corruption of Randy Cunningham and Ted Stevens.

[Episiarch]

Is it just me or are Democratic scandals usually way more entertaining than Republican ones?

The most entertaining ones are the ones that involve staggering hypocrisy or over-the-top brazenness. Spitzer involved both. Blago involves the latter. Craig the former.

But you remember Spitzer and Blago better because they were camera/exposure whores.

[James Ard]

Joe, it wasn't but two weeks ago that you insisted Obama would be bringing plenty of his people from Chicago. Kind of changing your tune a little, now?

[BDB]

Agreed. Wide stances don't even compare to stained dresses and paying extra to screw sans condoms.

The biggest laugh-out-loud moment of Monicagate for me was when you got to see the sitting President being asked on TV if he had phone sex with Monica by a lawyer, and responding "Well I think at least in general terms it..." and being promptly interrupted by the lawyer with a long technical definition of what constitutes phone sex.

I don't think any other scandal will have a moment quite like that.

[ChrisH]

"If they feel like they can do this and not f***ing give me anything?then I'll f***ing go [to Senate Candidate 5]."

If he said "I'll f***ing go Jackson", maybe he meant Michael Jackson. I'm not saying it's likely, but it is a far bigger threat.

[joe]

It was? I don't remember that.

I think maybe you're confusing "from Chicago" with "Chicago machine pols." If you look at people like Rahm or Jarrett or Axelrod, they're longtime Obama supporters, but they're not really Daley machine, Chicago machine people.

I remember writing that his most natural friends from back home were the people at the University of Chicago Law School, who would make the most sense as judicial nominees.

[R C Dean]

Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month explaining, is a Clintonite.

And being a Clintonite, as we all know, is a solid-gold guarantee that you are clean as a whistle. Got it, joe.

Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not in the local political machine.

And being a product of the Beltwya is a solid-gold guarantee, etc.

It's unusual how little he's using his position to reward people with appointments.

Its a little early for the cheerleading. He hasn't announced but a handful of appointments yet; we still have hundreds to go.

On the topic of appointments, BTW, I would give up next year's rather substantial raise for the privilege of reading a SCOTUS decision saying, sorry, Hillary, the Emoluments Clause means what it says, you can't be Secretary of State. Sorry you gave up your Senate seat for an unconstitutional appointment.

[domoarrigato]

I don't think any other scandal will have a moment quite like that.

See - definition of "is"

[James Ard]

Joe, you're delusional to believe anyone successful in Chicago politics is not a Daily machine type.

[BDB]

James, I thought the Clintons were behind all of this? So Clintonites are part of the Daley Machine, and the Daley Machine is Clintonian?

[James Ard]

I wouldn't doubt the Daily's and the Rodhams go way back. And there was a Daily in the Clinton administration, after all.

[joe]

RC, shifting goal posts as always:

And being a Clintonite, as we all know, is a solid-gold guarantee that you are clean as a whistle. Got it, joe...And being a product of the Beltwya is a solid-gold guarantee, etc.

Could you please point out the part where anyone was talking about "clean as a whistle?" Here, let me help you out - it doesn't exist. This is a discussion about Obama's appointments of political backers from back home.

Its a little early for the cheerleading. He hasn't announced but a handful of appointments yet; we still have hundreds to go. Sure, but we can draw apples-to-apples comparisons based on the picks he's made so far. Look at Commerce Secretaries - traditionally a dumping ground for political cronies, he appointed Bill Richardson.

[James Ard]

My apologies to the Daleys for the misspelling.

[BDB]

Now, if we could some how combine the seediest, most entertaining elements of tawdry redneck Arkansas with big city Chicago machine politics in one package, THAT would make an entertaining scandal to remember!

Too bad the dream ticket idea never took of!

[Syd Henderson]

I still think the most entertaining recent scandal Jim McGreevey's in New Jersey. Although Spitzer's is the most satisfying.

[joe]

James Ard,

Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley Machine. He made his bones in DC, as part of the Clinton White House, THEN went back to Chicago.

Your argument is like saying that Deval Patrick is a Beacon Hill Democrat.

[James Ard]

BDB, that's what we got in 1992.

[joe]

James Ard | December 10, 2008, 12:54pm | #

I wouldn't doubt the Daily's and the Rodhams go way back. And there was a Daily in the Clinton administration, after all.

It's like the Kennedy assassination people. There's no such thing as evidence that refutes the thesis; everything either proves it, or adds a new wrinkle.

[James Ard]

Funny how you never hear about Hillary's roots in Chicago these days.

[Mike Huckabee]

Hey Oprah, did you see me on the Daily Show last night? I'm going to give you a run for your money.

[BDB]

"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 12:58pm | #
BDB, that's what we got in 1992."

Nah, we only got the tawdry redneck Arkansas part.

Think of Monicagate, except with audio tapes of Bill Clinton discussing selling cabinet positions while getting blown and dropping F-bombs every other sentence. That's what it would look like, more or less.

[Gilbert Martin]

"Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick!"

Well he IS a liberal democrat.

That automatically makes him guilty of everything until proven innocent.

That is the natural order of the universe.

[James Ard]

Fucking an A, you don't think Hillary got on that Watergate commission on looks alone.

[joe]

James,

I'm asking nicely. Pretty please, lay out your theory about Clinton/Obama/Richardson and the 2008 presidential election.

C'mon, do it for the kids.

[Syd Henderson]

Although Blagojevich can have make a 10 on a 1-10 if he has a mistress and appoints her to the Senate seat. He doesn't seem likeable enough to have a mistress for a reasonable rate.

[BDB]

Appointing his equally crazy wife would get him a 9.5.

[joe]

Good point, Syd.

He does seem stupid enough to think he could get away with cheating on a Chicago Alderman's daughter, though.

[J sub D]

From a WaPo op-ed -

Illinois holds the nation's highest gubernatorial incarceration rate. Three of the past eight governors have spent time in jail or prison. Blagojevich would bring the number to four.

[joe]

People only walk around with a toupee like that if they are seriously deluded about what other people are able to figure out.

This guy thought nobody knew he had a rug, just like he thought nobody would catch on to his crimes, just like he thought he was going to be a serious presidential candidate.

One of the features of sociopathology is an inability to imagine what's going on in other people's heads.

[James Ard]

Joe, John Edwards was Hillary's only viable rival running in the primary. By putting up candidates that would draw from him, it made Hillary's chances much better. That one of her stooges actually beat her doesn't matter, she'll get a lot richer working behind the scenes. Obama could get plenty of experienced people without tapping Bill Clinton's most loyal inner circle.

[BDB]

Hillary attacked Obama non-stop, kicked and dragged and screamed until she was forced out of the primary in June, and she was really a "stooge"?

You can say a lot of things about Hillary, but I've never heard someone suggest she never really wanted to be President or didn't have enough ambition!

[BDB]

JJ Jr. has just been officially named as "candidate # 5."

He's fucked!

[Paul]

Given the culture of corruption that seems to swirl around Ill. politics... is it at all possible that this governor actually believes that he did nothing wrong?

[Naga Sadow]

Paul,

Good question. I know what the feds think though.

"Ignorance is no excuse for the law."

[James Ard]

BDB, Hillary could have been a lot tougher on Obama than she was. Did she run any Rev. Wright ads?

[Kolohe]

Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month explaining, is a Clintonite.

Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not in the local political machine.

Emmanuel was a rep from the Ill 5th, running for the vacant seat that Blagojevich left to run for governor (who in turn got it as part of a democratic restoration from the temp Repub rep elected when Rostenkowski had to leave).

But based on the Emmanuel's wikipedia entry, in the primary he was challenged by the Daley machine and won. (at which point the machine got behind him - or at least no longer opposed him).

So, I have my own pet theory on how Emanuel is involved. Between Rosty and Blago, that seat has quite a recent history. I think when Rohm got there, he was visited by the members of 'the local neighborhood merchants association and social club'. Who Rahm in turn told to pack sand (but still with as many f*** as Blago would use). So when they said, 'hey we've always done it this way' Rahm said 'really?' and told his buddy Patrick Fitzgerald. Which is how the US attorney started the investigation a few years ago.

[James Ard]

Not to mention that she didn't drag Michigan and Florida into court, which is the usual way the Clintons do things.

[BDB]

"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:17pm | #
BDB, Hillary could have been a lot tougher on Obama than she was. Did she run any Rev. Wright ads?"

No, she's not gonna alienate THAT much of the black vote! It would screw her up big time in the general election. It's the same reason Obama didn't run any ads on Monica or Whitewater or (pick your 90s Clinton scandal), because that would be too "Republican", too much blowback from the party base.

[Number 6]

Well, Truman was a product of Kansas City machine politics.* Make of that what you will.

*For those who don't know, Kansas City's Tom Pendergast was one of the country's great bosses. His machine was, in many ways, the model for Daley's.

PS-I use AdBlock, but embedding ads is going to do nothing but piss people off.

[J sub D]

Commenters, stop accusing joe of being a partisan shill!!!

It hurts his feelings.

[joe]

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a president who had actually tried to do something about the corruption in Illinois politics, and whose efforts had actually helped clean it up?

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say...

Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly, anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been growing for some time.

So the bill passes, Blagojevich starts working overtime to get more money before the provisions kick in on January 1, the feds catch on, and...

...the government obtained court approval to intercept oral communications in certain locations in the offices of Friends of Blagojevich. In addition, as part of its investigation, the government obtained court approval to intercept wire communications on the home phone of ROD BLAGOJEVICH.

It's going to be nice having a president who's honest.

For

A

CHANGE.

[Paul]

It's going to be nice having a president who's honest.

For

A

CHANGE.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The nice young man from Illinois hasn't been inaugurated, yet.

[BDB]

Link, joe?

[joe]

J sub D | December 10, 2008, 1:18pm | #

Commenters, stop accusing joe of being a partisan shill!!!

It hurts his feelings.

Dude. Move on. Everyone else has.

You've beeing stewing for an hour over this? We're all talking about Blagojevich and Jesse Jr.

Uh, yeah, my feelings. Huh?

[joe]

BDB,

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10chicago.html?pagewanted=2&ref=politics

[Kolohe]

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr.,

There are other reports (i.e. speculation) that Jones is Candidate #5. (liberal) source.

[BDB]

Kolohe--

No, it's Jesse Jackson Jr. It's official now.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/10/1709126.aspx

Emil Jones is clean.

[adrian]

obama=political jesus

[joe]

obama=political jesus

After the last eight years, heck the last 16, anyone who can find his ass with both hands and doesn't steal silverware looks an awful lot like Jesus.

[BDB]

Heh, the funny thing is Bill Clinton did actually steal literal White House silverware during the transition in 2001.

[Russ 2000]

Blago's been corrupt for years but the fed prosecutors take no action "to build a case" (yeah, right) until he starts horse trading for the appointment of the replacement horse trader - then they move in ASAP.

[Russ 2000]

Even if Obama isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought with him from Illinois is to some degree.

His chief of staff, for example.

[Kolohe]

BDB-
thx for the link

[prolefeed]

J sub D | December 10, 2008, 12:09pm | #
Y'know, it would be nice if we had some sort of regular Democratic shill, a blue team spimmeister here at H&R to expolain how this is only an aberration of Dem politics. That the donkey party really cares about the little people and aren't just in it for the power and the dineros. Unlike the GOP.

Damn shame we don't have anyone fitting that description here.

[Russ 2000]

Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley Machine.

Not true. He ran campaigns for Daley.

[phalkor]

the dirty politician is dirty
the shilling poster is a shill
the adjective/gerund noun is adjective/a noun

[Paul]

Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley Machine

I thought if you were from Illinois, and involved in politics, you were part of the Daley machine. Or paid protection to it...

[John C. Randolph]

As a fan of political farce, I've got to say I'm loving this Illinois vaudeville show.

-jcr

[joe]

Russ 2000 | December 10, 2008, 1:32pm | #

Blago's been corrupt for years but the fed prosecutors take no action "to build a case" (yeah, right) until he starts horse trading for the appointment of the replacement horse trader - then they move in ASAP.

The corrupt appointment of a United States Senator was imminent, and if you'd bothered to read the story, you'd find out that they just recently got wiretaps on him.

His chief of staff, for example. Uh, yeah, Barack Obama brought Rahm Emmanuel to DC. Huh? Oh, and he's totally corrupt. You know, like that time...uh...

[John C. Randolph]

It's going to be nice having a president who's honest.

When do you see that happening, Joe?

2012 will be our first opportunity, but given the sorry state of the Ruling Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to see an honest president for another 20 years or more.

-jcr

[joe]

Not true. He ran campaigns for Daley.

Checked on this - he was a staffer on Daley's 1988 campaign, before going national.

[BDB]

I see it always comes back to TheMedia some way, somehow. TheMedia is at fault!

[joe]

When do you see that happening, Joe?

When the guy who pushed through the campaign finance bill that ended up getting Blago wiretapped, and who Blago was caught on FBI tape cursing about because he wouldn't commit a corrupt act, is sworn in on January 20th.

Do you ever bother to familiarize yourself with facts, Mr. Randolph, or are you still one of those "gut-check" people?

[TheMedia]

leave me outta this!

[joe]

BDB | December 10, 2008, 1:31pm | #

Heh, the funny thing is Bill Clinton did actually steal literal White House silverware during the transition in 2001.

I though the GSA report refuted thos stories.

[James Ard]

Joe, do you take Obama at his word that he had no contact with Blagojevich?

[joe]

2012 will be our first opportunity, but given the sorry state of the Ruling Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to see an honest president for another 20 years or more.

Oh, I see. "Honest President" = "Republican"

I trust the regulars will be along to beat their breasts over your awful partisanship.

Yep, any minute now.

Any minute now.

[John C. Randolph]

Joe,

You're not only deluded, you're really easy to bait.

I'm going to greatly enjoy watching you try to defend Obama's failures.

Do you ever bother to familiarize yourself with facts, Mr. Randolph,

I do, and you don't. That's why you support the Ruling Party.

-jcr

[John C. Randolph]

Oh, I see. "Honest President" = "Republican"

Not everyone fits in one of your little boxes, Joe. Feel free to try again, though.

-jcr

[Bluto]

"You mean the guy who Blagalphabet keeps ranting and swearing about because he won't commit corrupt acts?"

Makes sense to me. As Chicago's affirmative action pol, Obama didn't have to meet the corruption reqirements in order to advance.

[joe]

James,

I find it pretty unlikely that a state senator, then US Senator, from Illinois never had any contact with the Governor of Illinois.

But given how widely known it was that Blago was being investigated, it would be pretty unlikely that Obama himself would be talking to him.

Fitz has the tapes. I haven't heard Obama's voice on there yet, and Fitzgerald says Obama knew nothing about Blagojevich's efforts to sell the Senate seat.

[The Angry Optimist]

I assumed when he said "2012 is the first opportunity", he meant Obama is dishonest and there will be no opportunity to replace him until that year.

If you read "Republican" in to that, joe, reeding lesssons R N ordor.

[James Ard]

Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the one rival that doesn't make the team?

[Michael Sembello]

Just a beantown boy on a Saturday night, lookin' for the fight of his life
In the real-time world no one sees him at all, they all say he's crazy

Locking rhythms to the beat of his heart, changing a man into life
He has spun into the danger zone, when a spinner becomes the spin

It can cut you like a knife, if the gift becomes the fire
On a wire between what is and what he says

He's a shill-iac, shill-iac on the board
And he's spinning like he's never spinned before
He's a shill-iac, shill-iac on the board
And he's spinning like he's never spinned before

[joe]

Not everyone fits in one of your little boxes, Joe.

Let's go to the tape: 2012 will be our first opportunity, but given the sorry state of the Ruling Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to see an honest president for another 20 years or more.

[The Angry Optimist]

nah. I don't see Wes Clark going anywhere. (Was he technically a rival? I forget.)

[joe]

Makes sense to me. As Chicago's affirmative action pol, Obama didn't have to meet the corruption reqirements in order to advance.

Uh, yeah, black politicians from Chicago can't be corrupt.

What?

[BDB]

"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:57pm | #
Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the one rival that doesn't make the team?"

He won't, but not for the reason you think. It's because he's disgraced.

[The Angry Optimist]

2012 will be our first opportunity

Our = America's, joe. Come now.

[Jesse Jackson, Jr.]

"Uh, yeah, black politicians from Chicago can't be corrupt.
"

I'll give you a cool million for the seat! You're not wired, are you?

[joe]

I assumed when he said "2012 is the first opportunity", he meant Obama is dishonest and there will be no opportunity to replace him until that year.

...and when he talked about the Ruling Party's grip on the media, you just pretended to have no idea who that meant.

What a hack!

[James Ard]

Strange that the genius Axelrod thought he had spoken with him. And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement.

[I take quotes out of context]

joe said:

"Honest President" = "Republican"

Now joe, I understand you're a Republican shill, but you can't seriously beleive that!?

[ed]

Just hearing about it, and HOLY SHIT!
If it's true, it's too good to be true.
Another nail in the civil "rights" shakedown racket?
Christmas may indeed come early.
You're a mean one, Mr. Fitzgerald!

[joe]

James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:57pm | #

Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the one rival that doesn't make the team?

I'll take that bet. If Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel don't get appointed to Barack Obama's administration, you stop posting for a month.

If they do, I will.

[joe]

Oh, and Chris Dodd.

[The Angry Optimist]

and when he talked about the Ruling Party's grip on the media, you just pretended to have no idea who that meant.

Honestly, because I don't know what he meant by that, and neither do you.

Are you always spoiling for a threadjack fight? Isn't that the first sign you're a troll?

[John C. Randolph]

If you read "Republican" in to that, joe, reeding lesssons R N ordor.

Joe apparently suffers from a severe case of Ruling Party Propaganda Inhalation.

-jcr

[joe]

Honestly, because I don't know what he meant by that, and neither do you.

If I hadn't read enough of your comments, I'd accuse you of playing dumb.

But no, you probably have no idea.

[R C Dean]

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a president who had actually tried to do something about the corruption in Illinois politics, and whose efforts had actually helped clean it up?

Really? Illinois politics is cleaner now than it was before Obama graced it with his presence (as demonstrated by his voting record)? You just stick with that one, joe.

If Obama really had any interest in exerting himself to clean up Illinois, he would have been on board with one of the few genuine reformers in Illinois politics - the current Lt. Gov. However, I'm not aware that Obama ever found the time or the energy to work with anyone outside the Illinois machine.

I stick by my previous take on Obama. A go-along-to-get-along Illinois pol. Ethically inert.

[Grant]

"I remember writing that his most natural friends from back home were the people at the University of Chicago Law School, who would make the most sense as judicial nominees."

I find the term "natural friends" to be racist.

[The Angry Optimist]

Forget it. I'm not getting drawn into more of your trolling, joe.

Jesus, you just WANT every thread to focus on you, don't you?

Attention. Whore.

[joe]

You know what?

Since you've all decided this thread is going to be all about me, I'm gonna repost that report from the Times.

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say...

Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly, anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been growing for some time.

So the bill passes, Blagojevich starts working overtime to get more money before the provisions kick in on January 1, the feds catch on, and...

...the government obtained court approval to intercept oral communications in certain locations in the offices of Friends of Blagojevich. In addition, as part of its investigation, the government obtained court approval to intercept wire communications on the home phone of ROD BLAGOJEVICH.

Shill: someone who provides objective information that is inconvenient for Republicans.

Partisan: someone who acknowledges when the objective facts refute Republican spin.

[John C. Randolph]

Joe,

Let me give you a little hint about what the Ruling Party is, and how it deludes suckers like you.

Did you notice that both of the "opponents" in the last electoral farce voted for the bailout? Doesn't it seem strange to you that on the issue of whether to throw our whole freaking economy under the bus to keep a bunch of corrupt bankers afloat, they were on the same side?

-jcr

[.]

Joe becomes an honorary Chicagoan when the shit hits the fan. Too funny.

[joe]

Really? Illinois politics is cleaner now than it was before Obama graced it with his presence (as demonstrated by his voting record)?

Yup. You might have seen the story, the corrupt governor just got arrested. Something about wiretaps. Something about campaign finance reform. Something about cursing out "that President-Elect motherfucker" for not being extorted to get his candidate appointed to a Senate seat. I understand you can find the story if you google hard enough.

If Obama really had any interest in exerting himself to clean up Illinois, he would have been on board with one of the few genuine reformers in Illinois politics...I stick by my previous take on Obama. A go-along-to-get-along Illinois pol. Ethically inert.

From the story:

Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly, anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois

Lemme guess - the Lt. Governor hated that bill, right?

[James Ard]

Joe the "rivals" you mention got about 2% of the vote combined. Your bet is total nonsense.

[joe]

Jesus, you just WANT every thread to focus on you, don't you?

Actually, I want the thread to focus on Barack Obama, Rod Blagojevich, and Illinois politics.

I can't help it if people respond to facts that harsh their buzz by writing about me.

So, can we get back to Barack Obama, Rod Blagojevich, and Illinois politics? Or will be seeing more people rewriting 80s pop songs in my honor?

[The Angry Optimist]

So, as I thought, when JCR said "Ruling Party", he meant "Republicrats".

Which, given how much joe has hung around here, you think he would have known. But joe is too much of an attention whore not to start a partisan polemic predicated on pedantry.

[BDB]

"partisan polemic predicated on pedantry."

Spiro Agnew, is that you?

[joe]

James Ard | December 10, 2008, 2:11pm | #

Joe the "rivals" you mention got about 2% of the vote combined. Your bet is total nonsense.

Your bet. Your term.

BTW, Richardson and Biden got about 2%, too, but you count them as part of your grand conspiracy theory.

[Craig]

It's nothing but good news for freedom lovers whenever the curtain is pulled back and people see politics for what it really is -- a sordid auction of stolen goods, pursued by people with a generally low level of ethical inhibitions.

Either someone had a personal reason for exposing Blago, or he wasn't as smooth as more sophisticated political operatives who manage to cut deals with implied paybacks and a wink and a nod, rather than demanding cash and jobs up front.

[The Angry Optimist]

I can't help it if people respond to facts that harsh their buzz by writing about me.

Dear Attention Whore,

The "Facts" you laid out was to read JCR's mind and state that he must be a Republican shill, even though he just clarified for you that he thinks the "Ruling Party" = both parties, because there is no substantive difference.

You, on the other hand, just wanted to threadjack and project partisanship onto someone else so you could take an ill-founded cheap shot at the integrity of the posters on the board.

You knew that snidely implying that we're only tough on YOUR partisan hackery would piss everyone off and make the thread all about you.

Yours truly,

Your Exhausted Trollbait

[joe]

Oh, look, TAO is writing about me again.

me

me
me
me

me

me

me?

ME!

More about me, please. Certainly, don't write anything about the events taking place in Illinois.

[adrian]

just helping things along. (i don't think anything will come of it)

Nov 5th article

[John C. Randolph]

You might have seen the story, the corrupt governor just got arrested

Oh, so because one of them gets busted, that makes the system cleaner?

I wonder if there was someone like you saying the same thing when Ryan or Trafficant got sent to the hoosegow. Hope spring eternal, I guess.

-jcr

[joe]

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[James Ard]

I'd never make a non-posting bet with joe. I would hate to be responsible for taking away all the fun he brings to the table.

[The Angry Optimist]

we know, joe, you're an attention-whoring troll. We got it.

[NY Governor Patterson]

How much should I charge the Kennedy family for our open senate seat?

[joe]

Oh, so because one of them gets busted, that makes the system cleaner?

Oh, c'mon! Blago was above and beyond, even by Chicago standards. Have you heard those tapes? This guy was like Duke Cunningham.

But why did you cut out the rest of my comment - the part about the campaign finance law passing, and it posing enough of a threat to the pay-to-play system that Blagojevich decided he needed to scramble around to rake in money before it took effect?

[Craig]

Didn't Iceland have a similar system back in the day? Seats in their parliament were auctioned off to the highest bidder, cutting out the middlemen in our system who raise cash for the candidates who can put the best public face on their power grab.

[joe]

NY Governor Patterson | December 10, 2008, 2:19pm | #

How much should I charge the Kennedy family for our open senate seat?

I can't freaking believe that guy. This is such an obvious suck-up to the national party.

As far as I can tell, you can "charge" some dinner invitations and photo ops.

[The Great State of Louisiana]

I'd just like to thank the Illinois Machine for making us look good by comparison.

[The Democratic Republican]

People, people..."joe" likes attention because he spends all his time coming here and provoking all of you to respond to his airheaded liberal group think. The only way to make it go away is to ignore it.

[John C. Randolph]

But why did you cut out the rest of my comment

Because it wasn't relevant. Illinois politicos get busted on a regular basis, and the details of what causes any particular one of them to trip up and get busted has no effect on the pervasive culture of corruption.

-jcr

[Zeb]

"partisan polemic predicated on pedantry."

Spiro Agnew, is that you?"

No, Bill Sapphire.

[we_love_joe_p_boyle]

Guys, please keep up the ad hominem attacks on joe, we need more material to draw more members for our fan club. joe, don't stop being awesome. You keep this forum rockin' and rollin' with your mix of self-righteousness and maximial correctitude.

joe isn't a troll, he's a hero. Whatever your political bias, you must admit, people like joe make political blogs political.

long live joe, let us all sing his praises!

[joe]

Because it wasn't relevant...

Actually, it was the central part of my point - not only did he get arrested, he got arrested because of changes to the law that Barack Obama helped push through.

BTW, they're backing off the story that Rahm-bo tipped off the police.

[ed]

we know, joe, you're an attention-whoring troll. We got it.

But he's nothing if not dedicated.

Attempts: 11,462
Minds changed: 0

[joe]

Why would I want to change your minds?

Who would I argue with?

[we_love_joe_p_boyle]

joe, you're the best!

[PM770]

Regarding joe's post @ 2:06:

Try replacing "Mr. Obama" with "Mr. Clinton" and image that story taking place. I couldn't either.

My point is shouldn't serious conservatives at least be happy that someone (Obama) who has done nothing to date that can be construed as corrupt is going to be president as opposed to more of the Clinton years.

Shouldn't we maybe wait to see if Obama ever does anything corrupt before we all go haywire here?

This story should give us confidence that Obama won't play these games and that maybe we at least have someone uncorruptable as president.

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

[R C Dean]

joe conveniently overlooks the fact that, post-The Great Obama Reform, federal prosecutors were monitoring what they termed an ongoing criminal enterprise in the governor's office.

I really don't think that means that Obama's reform bill succeeded in cleaning up Illinois; I rather think that means it failed, at least so far.

And the Great Obama Reform rather obscures Obama's, the Great Reformer's, rather puzzling reluctance to join forces with someone who actually was pushing major, systematic reforms.

Go along to get along. Ethically inert.

[Seward]

There is very little if any difference between the Republican and Democratic parties. I mean, this decade ought to have taught us that. On the most significant pieces of legislation this decade the majority of members of both parties voted pretty much together. PATRIOT ACT? Check. Iraq War Authorization? Check. Sarbanes-Oxley? Check. All these bailouts? Check.

[Dan Rostenkowski]

Blago was above and beyond, even by Chicago standards.

How soon we forget.

[James Ard]

Refusing to pay to keep your seat in the family is one thing. Abusing your power to bring down a former buddy practicing standard Chicago politics is a little less honorable.

[John C. Randolph]

Actually, it was the central part of my point

That doesn't make it relevant.

-jcr

[John C. Randolph]

There is very little if any difference between the Republican and Democratic parties. I mean, this decade ought to have taught us that.

Heh. The Nixon administration should have taught us that.

-jcr

[Hubert]

"Oh, look, TAO is writing about me again.

me, me, me, me, me, me, me?

ME!

More about me, please. Certainly, don't write anything about the events taking place in Illinois."

I think this would be a good time to take a shit.

[joe]

joe conveniently overlooks the fact that, post-The Great Obama Reform, federal prosecutors were monitoring what they termed an ongoing criminal enterprise in the governor's office.

Ignore? The fact that the guy got busted by that monitoring - the wiretapping part of which was initiated because of his efforts to vacuum up money before the law kicked in - was my point.

I just got accused of putting too much emphasis on the fact the the governor got busted, and then accused of ignoring the fact that the governor got busted.

I really don't think that means that Obama's reform bill succeeded in cleaning up Illinois; I rather think that means it failed, at least so far. Um, what? That doesn't make any sense. BECAUSE the governor's corruption was uncovered and he was arrested because of this reform, it shows the reform hasn't done anything to clean up state politics? You stick with that argument, RC. It's convincing!

Go along to get along. Let's go to the tape. I'll bold the parts that refute you.

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say...

Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly, anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been growing for some time.

Go along to get along. You know, like crossing your mentor, pushing him to do something he didn't want to do, pissing off the governor...THAT kind of go along to get along.

What?

[joe]

Dan Rostenkowski was convicted of selling stamps he got for free from the government.

The enterprise netted him a few thousand dollars.

Blagojevich was going to sell a Unites States Senate seat for a million bucks, and that's only one of the charges.

Order of magnitude difference.

[J sub D]

Here's my honest take on it. Obama wanted Jesse jr., his campaign co-chair, appointed to his senate seat. Cronyism is not corruption in many's eyes. Blagowhatever, sleazy politician that he is, wanted a quid pro quo that Obama was too smart to provide. Jesse jr., having grown up in privilege, thought he was smart enough to buy the seat on his own without getting caught. IOW, the apple fell adjacent to the trunk.

Other scenarios can be devised that cast more or less blame on the president-elect and his campaign co-chair (ooh, that does not look good at all).

[joe]

Abusing your power to bring down a former buddy practicing standard Chicago politics is a little less honorable.

Bullshit "Sopranos" morality. Turning in a crook is bad, all of a sudden.

And let's just forget the fact that, whether they standard Chicago politics or not, Blagojevich was moved to profanity-laden tirades at Obama because he refused to play them.

[joe]

Obama wanted Jesse jr., his campaign co-chair, appointed to his senate seat.

Refuted by the tapes. Obama wanted "Senate Candidate #1," who most people think was Valerie Jarrett, for the seat.

Blago goes into a rant that he's going to "go with Jackson" over Senate Candidate #1 because Obama won't give him anything for the seat.

[James Ard]

Joe, I suspect the hammer fell as soon as Obama heard the tapes. Thin skin, you know.

[Seward]

I have no idea what the Blago deal means for the incoming Obama administration. And neither does anyone else. It likely isn't that important.

[James Ard]

Joe, it's hard to have a Sopranos mentality when I've never seen the program. Why just Blagojevich? let the investigation proceed and Obama really could have cleaned the place up.

[Voros McCracken]

"If you look at people like Rahm or Jarrett or Axelrod, they're longtime Obama supporters, but they're not really Daley machine, Chicago machine people."

Axelrod's been working for Daley pretty much since the day Harold Washington died. If that doesn't make him a "Daley machine" person, what does?

[PM770]

I think Obama difinitively did NOT want Jesse Jr. getting his senate seat.

Thats why Blago essentially said "F him, if they don't give me anything, I'll give the seat to Jesse Jr."

[R C Dean]

joe logic at work:

A massively corrupt governor is conducting an auction for a Senate seat - no evidence whatsoever that Illinois politics is corrupt.

A massively corrupt governor gets busted for conducting an auction for a Senate seat - proof positive that Illinois politics is cleaner than its ever been.

Wait, there's more:

Obama twists arms on one bill reforming pay-for-play" Illinois politics - hosannas and hallelujahs for the Greatest Reformer Evah!

Obama studiously avoids the Democratic Lt. Governor as he proposes more systematic reforms against the opposition of the Illinois Democratic machine - how dare you say Obama's just a go-along-toget-along guy?

[joe]

Joe, it's hard to have a Sopranos mentality when I've never seen the program.

No, not really. The idea behind your remark, that "rats" who turn in criminals are less honorable than the people who keep their secrets, is hardly unique to that one show.

Why just Blagojevich? It's not. It looks like Jesee Junior is in the soup, too.

let the investigation proceed and Obama really could have cleaned the place up. I think Fitzgerald decided he had to get Blagojevich now in order to prevent a corrupt Senate appointment.

[ed]

joe | December 10, 2008, 2:32pm | #

Why would I want to change your minds?

I can't come up with any other explanation for your psychosis, joe.

[ed]

Ding, dong, the bitch is dead.

Which ole bitch?

The Jackson bitch!*

*If he's guilty. Every bitch** deserves his/her day in court.

**Perhaps "pimp" would be more appropriate.

[James Ard]

It is clear now that Jesse Sr's hatred of Obama is less personall professional jealousy and more disgust that it isn't his son that is president-elect.

[joe]

Voros,

That's not so. Axelrod has been working as a political consultant for campaigns all over the country. Daley was one campaign that hired him, but he was working in Detroit, Washington, and plenty of other campaigns. You might as well say he's part of the Anthony Williams machine.

RC,

WTF are you talking about? A massively corrupt governor is conducting an auction for a Senate seat - no evidence whatsoever that Illinois politics is corrupt. Where in the hell did you get THAT piece of crap from? I've never written anything that comes within a thousand miles of that. I wrote exactly the opposite - that the fact that the governor got busted for it shows that things are getting better.

A massively corrupt governor gets busted for conducting an auction for a Senate seat - proof positive that Illinois politics is cleaner than its ever been. Funny what you can do when you add phrases like "than it's ever been" to other people's arguments, isn't it? What's the matter, my actual argument - that arresting Blagojevich is part of cleaning up Illinois politics - doesn't make your point? Aw, poor baby. Have you considerd the possibility that your point is nonsensical?

Seriously, you want to sit here and argue that it doesn't help to clean up politics to arrest massively corrupt politicians? You go on with your bad. Don't worry, it doesn't look like desperate partisan hackery. At all.

Obama twists arms on one bill reforming pay-for-play" Illinois politics - hosannas and hallelujahs for the Greatest Reformer Evah! Oh, look, you're using hyperbole to make a completely uncontroversial observation look absurd. Again. Truly, you must be arguing from a solid position.

Obama studiously avoids the Democratic Lt. Governor... Ah, so now he "studiously avoids" him, eh? Right. Sure he did.

Tell me, when I google "Obama Illinois Lt. Governor" to find out what half-baked wingnut you're parroting, which web site am I going to end up at?

[joe]

Whoa, lookie what I found:

Despite campaigning with Blagojevich in 2006, Quinn became an outspoken critic of the governor and said at the news conference that the two had not spoken since 2007.

So let me get this straight - during the period that Barack Obama was active in Illinois politics, Pat Quinn was a Blagojevich loyalist. Because Obama wasn't working with a Blagojevich loyalist, this shows he wasn't interested in reform.

Then, while Barack Obama was a Senator and presidential candidate, his reform efforts were limited to lobbying the people he had pre-existing relationships with to reform the law, rather than vaguely "working with" a guy who, when he last held Illinois office, was a Blagojevich loyalist.

The conclusion we're supposed to draw here is that Obama didn't really work for reform, because he didn't quit his day job to go work with a guy who only became a reformer when Obama had left state government.

Sure, that makes sense.

[joe]

I know this game:

Why don't Muslims denounce terrorism?

They do - here and here and here and here and here.

OK, but why don't they do it MORE?

[Jon H]

"And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement."

There's nothing inherently wrong with discussing his replacement. Obama can legally whinge, cajole, lobby, persuade and otherwise verbally try to get a favored person appointed.

What is illegal and unethical is the offer or demand of money or other item of value in exchange for the appointment.

Given Blago's cursing of Obama, it seems Obama wasn't playing that game.

[James Ard]

That's what Obama should have said, but instead, he said he'd had no contact with him.

[Jon H]

James wrote: "Joe, I suspect the hammer fell as soon as Obama heard the tapes. Thin skin, you know."

Right, because Patrick Fitzgerald is Obama's puppet. Sure.

[Voros McCracken]

Axelrod may have been consulting for lots of people, he's been _working_ for Daley. The best defense for Obama with regards to Axelrod is that he's not as close to Axelrod as Daley is. The latter is indisputable.

Obama simply could not have gotten to where he did without extensive ties to the Daley Machine. Now that doesn't necessarily make him corrupt (other than maybe having passing knowledge of the corruption of others), but arguing he's not closely tied is ludicrous on its face. You can be clean and run with Daley and company, all you have to be is clean and useful.

[James Ard]

Funny how Fitzgerald keeps an investigation going even after discovering the leaker in the Plame case. But here, after admitting there was a crime spree going on, he rushes to court. Most US attorneys would let things play out a little to ensnare the most crooks.

[Grandpa Withers]

"I wrote exactly the opposite - that the fact that the governor got busted for it shows that things are getting better."

Given that the governor before him is in jail simply means the next governor will be corrupt as well.

Taking out Gambino didn't make the Gotti era Mafia honest.

[Grandpa Withers]

"That's what Obama should have said, but instead, he said he'd had no contact with him."

As someone who has worked with several governors, I can tell you first hand that it is entirely possible that after the statement was made that Obama was going to meet with the governor, something came up that pushed it off of the calendar. It happens all of the time.

[James Ard]

Not waiting for the money to change hands is either the dumbest prosecutorial move ever, or an attempt to cover for someone.

[James Ard]

Gramps, even if that meeting didn't happen, the video of Axelrod is very convincing. He even describes the conversation, detailing how Obama liked some of the names.

[James Ard]

Whatever Hillary found in Fitzgerald's FBI file must have been none too flattering.

[joe]

"And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement."

I keep seeing this in the future tense, and from that one reporter. I haven't seen any reports saying they met. Why is that?

Funny how Fitzgerald keeps an investigation going even after discovering the leaker in the Plame case. There were multiple leakers in the Plame case. This has been known for years, and was in his report.

But here, after admitting there was a crime spree going on, he rushes to court. Yeah, why arrest Blagojevich before he appointed a United States Senator? Why would he possibly do that?

Whatever Hillary found in Fitzgerald's FBI file must have been none too flattering.

Maybe he should have wrapped it in tin foil.

[ed]

J.J. Jr.'s press conference will soon become a parser's dream.

No admission of guilt, but a hint of wistfullness. He used the past tense, as if his days were numbered. I wish him well if he's innocent of Illinois politics, if that's possible. Is it? Obama's presidency is dependent upon it. Look out.

[John C. Randolph]

J.J. Jr.'s press conference will soon become a parser's dream.

The guy sure knows how to squirm, doesn't he?

-jcr

[Syd Henderson]

Syd Henderson | December 10, 2008, 12:39pm | #
There's also speculation that #5 is Emil Jones, so don't convict JJ quite yet.

Okay, I guess we can now.

[rob]

There are 4 things seem to be true on this thread...

1) There's nothing that would link the President-elect to this, completely the contrary in fact. If anything, this makes Obama look like the single uncorrupted politician from Illinois.

2) joe is still a blindly partisan blowhard. But he's right about #1.

3) It may be that something will come to light later, but you may also already be a millionaire. Not something you should count on in trying to crystal ball the political future, even though Chicago could probably have sucked the integrity out of Mother Teresa.

4) A President from Chicago is elected and no media outlet has even broached the possiblity that Obama might have some Chicago Machine political dirt under his fingernails? Not even from the sort of reckless media outlets willing to go all out with baseless claims about an incumbent wartime President going AWOL during his National Guard Service? I think it's safe to say that those guys are on Team Blue with joe.

Make that 5 things...

ed wins the thread:

"[joe]'s nothing if not dedicated.

Attempts: 11,462
Minds changed: 0"

Because you can't buy that kind of devotion, it's got to come from the heart.

[Elemenope]

I was somehow transfixed by this nauseating thread in which pretty much everyone's thought process is:

1. Here is Evidence A.
2. Evidence A clearly affirms my world-view.
3. Idiot [person who doesn't think like me] introduces Evidence B, which because he is obviously an idiot doesn't realize actually clearly affirms my world-view and not their's.
4. What a schmuck.
5. I shall now type my mocking but obviously brilliant [barely coherent and internally contradictory or poorly sourced] response.

Rinse and repeat for all statements and evidence introduced by anyone.

Most of the threads are not like this. Come on, guys, get your shit wired straight.

[James Ard]

Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job would ever be seated? If there is no payment then Fitz has nothing.

[wayne]

The IL governor reminds me of Tony Montana from the movie, "Scarface":

"First you get the moanie, then you get the power, then you get the woahmen..."

[Elemenope]

Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job would ever be seated? If there is no payment then Fitz has nothing.

Promising or suggesting to do something illegal or advertising an illegal service can itself be illegal, and often is.

[J sub D]

Promising or suggesting to do something illegal or advertising an illegal service can itself be illegal, and often is.

Otherwise cops would have to screw crack whores before busting them.

[highnumber]

Most of the threads are not like this. Come on, guys, get your shit wired straight.

Please direct me to this website that you frequent.

[VM]

hier.

but these non Chicagoians are sher quick with their google fu. haven't seen this speed since the FontGate and Dan rather!

[joe]

James Ard | December 10, 2008, 5:43pm | #

Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job would ever be seated?

He would, if it didn't come out that process was dirty, ie, if Fitz had sat on this like you seem to think he should have.

If there is no payment then Fitz has nothing. Oh, there's plenty of conspiracy, and solicitation on those tapes.

[Scion of Satan]

Voros McCraken
"Obama simply could not have gotten to where he did without extensive ties to the Daley Machine."

Obama ran for congress against Bobby Rush in 2000. Obama lost to Rush. Rush is a big time ally of Daley's and Daley supported Rush's campaign. Obama and Daley have a cordial relationship at best. There are no extensive ties to Daley.