Voter Suppression in Virginia's 5th Congressional District

I keed! I keed! The Virginia 5th Congressional District race between Republican Virgil Goode and Democrat Tom Perriello is one of the tightest in the country.

Bleeding heart Perriello is now leading nativist crank Goode by around 600 votes. What's interesting is that some votes were temporarily "lost." As one of the local TV stations reports:

The numbers are changing in the Fifth District congressional race thanks in part to new results from Charlottesville.

The city's voter registrar says two precincts did not report complete results on election night. The oversight at both Carver Recreation and Jefferson Park Avenue skipped almost 600 votes in the tight race between Tom Perriello and Virgil Goode.

"The chief election officer did not generate a tally tape on the e-scan machine. So when they reported the numbers back to the registrar's office, they only read the numbers from the e-slate machine," explained Charlottesville Electoral Board's Rick Sincere. 

The additional votes have been reported to the state board of elections. We're told a majority of them were for Perriello.

I am particularly interested in this story because I happen to vote in the Carver precinct in Charlottesville, so one of the votes that may have gone astray was mine. Finding these misplaced votes in the People's Republic of Charlottesville has to be bad news for Goode.

Disclosure: Consistent with my stand that the Republicans have been very bad dogs and need to be rapped over their noses with a rolled up newspaper, I voted for Perriello. Besides I generally prefer bleeding hearts to nativist cranks.

Comments

[BDB]

Goode is such a piece of shit. It is a real pleasure watching that crank go down.

[Warren]

I keed! I keed!

Can we please retire this worn out catchphrase? For that matter can we please retire Triumph altogether?

[Orange Line Special]

I hate Goode! I hate Goode! I hate Goode! I hate Goode! (continues for two minutes)

BTW, everyone stay tuned to Reason later today, they're going to have a strongly worded plan against BHO's MandatoryCommunityService plans under which he'll "require" children to volunteer. Word on the street that Reason's urgent, libertarian demands of their candidate will propose that the number of hours "required" be reduced from 50 to 45.

I urge every Reason reader to stand by them as they make this brave, gutsy move. If it doesn't go well, we'll be conducting a fund-raising drive to buy them warm winter coats for their journey.

[hotsauce]

You realize there's no comment box at the polling site. Your vote for Perriello could just as well be construed as the vote of someone who agrees 100% with his platform.

[The Angry Optimist]

Ronald,

I feel your pain.

I voted Republican in that race, though, because Mary Jo Kilroy is a right-on super-beyotch and the tenor of her campaign sucked.

[BDB]

Did the DaleyMachine have its NefariousTentacles in AppomattoxCounty, OLS?

[BDB]

How many RadicalMarxist ACORNMembers are there in LunenbergMachine?

[joe]

Warren's idea is good...for me to poop on!

[joe]

That's not voter suppression; that's just a cock-up.

Cock-ups happen. I'm glad they straightened it out.

But what's up with Alaska?

[BDB]

"But what's up with Alaska?"

Seems they like up there in the Real America, also, they like to elect convicted felons and complete morons to office. Maybe having the sun up three months straight fucks with their minds.

[T.R.]

I voted Republican in that race... it was a tough one for me. Periello came to the school next to my house in Earlysville and was very impressive (Goode could not even bother to show up or even respond to the invitation). Alas, I told myself I would vote for any candidate who voted against the bailout, so I ended up pulling the proverbial lever for Goode. But, can't say I care(d) who wins/won any elections this year... we're all screwed.

Also can't say I'd be surprised if Charlottesville just made up those votes... that place is truly the People's Republic of Charlottesville - very oppressive and intolerant people. It was like working with brownshirts all through the election.

[domoarrigato]

"Alaska..."

hoo boy - here we go with the tin foil hat rap. What ever happened to being good sports in victory?

[BDB]

Here is one of Goode's greatest YouTube hits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCeC-Rx3SB0

[joe]

domo, have you bothered to read anything about the elections in Alaska, or are you just convinced that there can't possibly be anything untoward going on in the electoral process?

Here, let's look at my tinfoil comment again:

joe | November 7, 2008, 1:06pm | #

That's not voter suppression; that's just a cock-up.

Cock-ups happen. I'm glad they straightened it out.

But what's up with Alaska?

Yeah, quite the tinfoil comment, immediately dismissing the implication that there was anything untoward happening in the balloting in Goode's race.

[BDB]

Joe, what is so hard to believe in Alaska re-electing Ted Stevens? All they care about there is how much pork they can suck off, not if their Congressional delegation is you know, law abiding. Also.

[joe]

BDB,

It doesn't make sense to me that turnout in Alaska, with the popular governor on the presidential ticket and two genuinely competitive races (Senate and House) would be DOWN 14% from 2004.

And also too, pollsters who got every other state right all got Alaska double-digit points wrong, and all in the same direction.

That's enough to raise suspicions in my mind. It's not like Alaska's political culture is Minnesota's.

[The Angry Optimist]

BDB - please, spare me! Alaska's not alone in being overwhelmingly supportive of its crooked politicians.

Last time I checked, Bill Jefferson is going back to Congress. And the morons in the Northeastern part of my state would probably gladly elect their (now imprisoned) former congressman.

[domoarrigato]

And implying that there was in Alaska. My buddy sends me this stuff all the time - he reminds me of a right wing version of you. He was emailing and posting about the black panther guy in Philly but completely ignored the Alaska story.

I don't know if there is or isn't anything going on - I do know that winners usually write the narrative, and that there is probably enough shenanigans to go around.

[domoarrigato]

The Posts explanation that the concession speech was on the air before the polls closed seems reasonable to me, but who knows - I'm sure it will be looked into. Unlike the black panther guy with a nightstick.

[EJM]

It looks like Halifax and Campbell counties are among the jurisdictions still counting their votes.

[BDB]

TAO-

Well, you're right about Jeffeson, and Youngstown re-elected Trafficant. But statewide?

[BDB]

Would Ohio have re-elected Taft, TAO? Really?

[joe]

domo,

Throw me a bone. Give me a plausible reason why turnout out would be down 14% in Alaska, when it was up everywhere else, Sarah Palin was on the ticket, and there were highly-competitive house and senate races.

BTW, the "Black Panther" dude was a certified poll watcher, assigned to that location by the city.

[BDB]

Joe--

Was there a big snowstorm or something on election day?

[joe]

The Posts explanation that the concession speech was on the air before the polls closed seems reasonable to me

Record-setting turnout in Hawaii.

I'm not sure it will be looked into.

[domoarrigato]

the "Black Panther" dude was a certified poll watcher, assigned to that location by the city

um, was supposed to make me feel better? Did the city give him his hat and nightstick?!

[steveo]

I live in the 5th District. The night before the election I got a robocall from the DCCC telling me that Goode had been "involved" in the production of an "immoral" and "inappropriate" film. No details, of course, about what was immoral about this film, or how Goode was involved (It was evidently a reference to the story about "Eden's Curves," which featured gay themes, and was produced by a company that received a HUD grant at Goode's behest). Nice to know that the democrats are keeping things classy. Anyone in Charlottesville get that call, or did they only send them to the fundamentalist part of the state?

[Sarah Palin]

Well show those darn ol' black panthers, rearin' their heads in my poll-space!

[joe]

BTW, the "Black Panther" dude was a certified poll watcher, assigned to that location by the city.

...as confirmed by the police who went by the polling location, looked into it, confirmed that he was supposed to be there, and sent his friend home.

[Joe]

Weather, joe? Was there a blizzard? Not unheard of in Alaska in November, I'd bet.

[The Angry Optimist]

BDB - I cannot say I have a lot of data points WRT corrupt politicians per se, but I guess my general point is that year after year, criminals, cronies and total lunatics are sent back to Washington.

It's irritating, but Alaska shouldn't be singled out.

And on the "Alaska is greedy for pork" thing...wouldn't you be, if you weren't allowed to take advantage of the resources on YOUR land?

[domoarrigato]

I listed one plausible reason above (you were probably typing) but I don't hang my hat on it. I have no idea what the weather was - maybe Alaskans aren't any more enthused with Palin than we are given the recent press. Who knows - all my point was that you are biased to believe conspiracy theories against your candidate, and prone to dismiss those against. Not really a shocking conclusion given you are a human, and a partisan.

[BDB]

Trafficant was "fun" though.

BEAM ME UP!

[joe]

Big-J Joe,

I haven't heard anything about a big blizzard, and 14% statewide?

domo,

Who knows - all my point was that you are biased to believe conspiracy theories against your candidate, and prone to dismiss those against. So biased that I immediately dismissed the idea that there was anything untoward in Goode's district. You know, assuming anything I write that favors the Democrats must be wrong is a form of bias, too.

Did you see me whining about Ohio on these threads in 2004? No, you did not. Did you see me engaging in dark speculation prior to the election this time? Again, no.

There's something screwy about this year's vote in Alaska, though.

[domoarrigato]

as confirmed by the police who went by the polling location, looked into it, confirmed that he was supposed to be there, and sent his friend home.

ie. they didn't send the guy with a nightstick home or tell the guy to remove his BP beret - despite the obvious potential for intimidation. The cops. I want to be totally clear - I doubt this influenced anyone, and certainly didn't impact the election. But can you seriously say that a skinhead with nazi tats standing outside a polling place in NC carrying a baseball bat would be handled this way in the press or by you?

[capelza]

TAO...

Poor, poor Alaska, the lower 48 is sooooo mean to them.

That's why they have no income tax or state sales tax and they give each and every citizen from newborn to those on death's bed around 2000.00 a year, with an extra 1200 this year.

And the porkaroo on top of that...

I used to get all the nice bennies when I lived there. I never lied to myself about it though.

[joe]

domo,

The guy with the nightstick was the friend, who was sent home. The cops sent the guy with the nightstick home.

Now you're talking about a guy's hat. An unarmed guy, who was supposed to be at the polling location. Wearing a hat.

And no, a black guy with a beret is not the equivalent of a skinhead with Nazi tattoos.

[domoarrigato]

I barely remember where I was in 2004, let alone what you were posting. I do remember you though. I stopped posting for a long time - and posted then under some other handle I can't remember.

My point about bias was illustrated by your dismissal of the BP thing vs. the Alaska thing - not Goode's race.

[domoarrigato]

a black guy with a beret is not the equivalent of a skinhead with Nazi tattoos.

Of course not - 'cause black panthers vote democrat...

[The Angry Optimist]

capelza - "give" everyone $2,000? Where's that coming from?

Look, Alaska would probably look a hell of a lot like Kuwait if you cut it loose, but that's no reasons to restrain that state's authority to dispense with its property.

[domoarrigato]

White guy - short hair - no tats - baseball bat. Does he get sent home, or arrested?

[The Angry Optimist]

BDB - do you know what it's like being the home of people like Traficant and Kucinich? I'm surprised that Ohio isn't half of Letterman's routine three nights a week.

[BDB]

Taft, Kucinich, Traficant, Blackwell...yeah, it sure is a real Rogue's Gallery you got up there.

[joe]

He probably gets arrested, because, once again, a black guy with a beret is not the equivalent of a skinhead with a Nazi tattoos and a baseball bat.

This is not a debateable proposition. It's really, really obvious.

[BDB]

The closest thing we have to a real a-hole Congressman now that Goode is gone is Jim Moran.

[Kolohe]

Record-setting turnout in Hawaii.

The Honolulu Advertiser said that turnout was down from 2004.

[The Angry Optimist]

BDB - we only need Alan Keyes to complete the set.

[joe]

My point about bias was illustrated by your dismissal of the BP thing vs. the Alaska thing - not Goode's race.

I'm biased, because of what I wrote about the Alaska race, and what I wrote about the Alaska race is wrong, because I'm biased.

Imaginary weather systems are the only explanation anyone can come up with, but I must be wrong to find the situation suspicious.

[domoarrigato]

This is not a debateable proposition. It's really, really obvious.

I agree - but to me it's obvious that any identifiable member of a hate group standing outside of a polling place with a weapon ought to be arrested.

I think of you as a pretty intellectually honest debator - which is why I cannot understand why you would apologize for violent extremist hate group.

[joe]

Kolohe,

In all, 455,653 people voted in Tuesday's elections in Hawaii, an increase from the 431,662 voters who cast ballots in 2004, according to the Office of Elections. About 58 percent voted in 2000.

Turnout was down 1 point as a % of registered voters, but increased 5.6% in actual votes.

[Kwix]

joe | November 7, 2008, 1:23pm | #
BDB,

It doesn't make sense to me that turnout in Alaska, with the popular governor on the presidential ticket and two genuinely competitive races (Senate and House) would be DOWN 14% from 2004.

Joe,
Hate to burst your bubble here, but it's not down 14%.

From the State of Alaska Division of Elections
Historic Election Turnout(1958-2006)
2008 General Election Results

You will note (in the upper left corner) that turnout was 224057 or 45.20% of the registered population. I don't believe this includes absentee ballots as we have another couple of weeks to count them. It is down, but only by 6% and that difference will decrease as the overseas ballots are counted. In a state with only 470k registered voters, it doesn't take a whole lot of people to swing those percentages.

As for the "contested races" Don Young's seat was hardly in doubt(regrettably) and Ted Stevens' campaign did a mighty fine job of convincing residents that he "didn't receive a fair trial". I say, don't underestimate the value of the stupid voter.

[joe]

The black panthers are not a hate group. They are not a "violent extremist hate group."

You are drawing a false comparison. They are in no way comparable to Nazi skinheads.

The assumption that two distinct things are equivalent is a form of bias.

[The Angry Optimist]

The constant re-election of a certifiable elf is what finally convinced me that there are no conspiracies or shenanigans involved with the Congress's re-election rate. People really don't give a shit who is there.

[joe]

Kwix,

If a lot more absentee ballots come in, then that explains it.

[The Angry Optimist]

The black panthers are not a hate group.

Whaaaaat...? Did you really just say that, joe?

[EJM]

The WDBJ story that I linked to above has added this...

1:40 p.m. Friday

Congressman Virgil Goode issued a statement saying that voting irregularities in his district cast doubt on the reported vote totals. He cites misplaced paper ballots and tape recordings from electronic machines and [miscalculations] in vote tallies as evidence of irregularities.

The latest results from the State Board of Elections [show] Goode's opponent, Tom Perriello with a 648 vote lead.

Goode says his campaign will continue to fight to make sure every vote is accurately counted.

Statement from Rep. Virgil Goode for Congress

Rocky Mount, VA - Rep. Virgil Goode issued the following statement today in regards to the ongoing vote count process in the 5th Congressional District of Virginia:

"With the vote counting process almost complete, it has become clear that there have been a number of reporting irregularities - including the misplacement of paper ballets and tape records from electronic machines and miscalculations in vote tallies. In fact, almost 20% of all the voting precincts in the district had reporting errors.

While current unofficial tallies have me trailing my opponent, these irregularities have cast doubt on the reported totals. It is essential that we get to the bottom of these problems and insist on a thorough and proper vote counting process. We will continue to fight to make sure that every single legitimate vote in the 5th District is accurately counted and reported."

[bendover]

"Give me a plausible reason why turnout out would be down 14% in Alaska, when it was up everywhere else, Sarah Palin was on the ticket, and there were highly-competitive house and senate races." - from joe

joe - it wasn't "up everywhere else" - per the front page of the Columbus Dispatch - "Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is reporting a 67% turnout, compared with a 72% turnout in 2004. She had been predicting a 80% turnout this time."

[Kwix]

The Angry Optimist | November 7, 2008, 2:06pm | #
The black panthers are not a hate group.

Whaaaaat...? Did you really just say that, joe?

Technically he is correct TAO. The "new" Black Panthers are the equivalent of a neighborhood watch/get out the vote organization. They haven't threatened to string whitey up in a while tha I am aware of.

[joe]

Whaaaaat...? Did you really just say that, joe?

Yup. I really just said that. The modern "black panthers" are about as violent as the Chamber of Commerce.

bendover,

Once again, look at actual vote totals, not turnout %s. The actual number of votes cast went up just about everywhere - except in Alaska, apparently, although perhaps there will be more coming in up there.

[domoarrigato]

The black panthers are not a hate group. They are not a "violent extremist hate group."

They are demonstrably violent and have been involved in violent incidents - read up on it.

They are extremist and endorse extreme political views (far left of course). Perhaps not extreme for you - but never-the-less... They use violence and intimidation as a political tactic - by any sane definition extreme.

They, like, hate white people! Or maybe they just love their own race (like skinheads always put it).

They are a group (duh).

I do not claim that they are equivilent: ie as prominent, as bonkers, as skinheads. I did make a comparison, and I stand by it. They are certainly a violent extremist hate group - denying it is willful ignorance.

[joe]

But Kxix: SCARY BLACK HAT! SCARY BLACK HAT!

[EJM]

Also, there are new figures for Albemarle County...

Meanwhile, Albemarle County numbers were reported a few minutes ago, boosting Perriello's lead by another 100 votes to 747. He is now winning by a margin of 0.24 percent of the vote.

(Since Charlottesville is an independent city, I assume that its figures are not included in the county's.)

[joe]

Actually, Ohio is one of the few states that saw a decline in votes compared to 2004.

[domoarrigato]

ROTFLMAO - I am imagining my grandmother (former chamber of commerce chairwoman in my hometown) taking her nightstick to the streets in support of the revolution!

[joe]

They are certainly a violent extremist hate group - denying it is willful ignorance.

Then you should certainly have no trouble finding examples from the past decade or two of violent black panthers.

Good luck!

[domoarrigato]

Technically he is correct TAO. The "new" Black Panthers are the equivalent of a neighborhood watch/get out the vote organization.

with nightsticks...

[The Angry Optimist]

But Kxix: SCARY BLACK HAT! SCARY BLACK HAT!

Dude, would you cram it already? How obnoxious.

So, let's see: a member of what was formerly a violent hate group has a weapon and it's all cheery-deary with you?

Most people still know the Black Panthers for what they were, and bringing weapons to polling places doesn't exactly assuage those conceptions.

[joe]

Oh, look, he typed one of those laughing thingies.

I guess there really are all sorts of stories about black panthers acting like Nazi skinheads.

[joe]

So, let's see: a member of what was formerly a violent hate group has a weapon and it's all cheery-deary with you?

No, I'm glad the police sent him home.

I'm not sure exactly what part of "the police sent him home" translates into "cherry-deary," but I don't really care all that much, either.

[domoarrigato]

Carrying a nightstick in a threatening manner is "violent". Unless you think the citizenry should be allowed to carry weapons around all the time - cuz I'd be ok with that...

I don't think thats the road you want to take the argument down.

[The Angry Optimist]

Section 11(b) of the Voting Rights Act states that "no person [?] shall intimidate, threaten, or coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any person for voting or attempting to vote."

It should have been more than "run along home, you little scamp".

[joe]

domo,

Carrying a weapon is or is not "violent" depending on my feelings? Really?

I'm flattered.

Personally, I think violence involves harming or at least threatening someone. And I don't go back and forth on that position depending on how I'm doing in a debate on a blog thread.

[joe]

TAO,

What evidence is there that the guy with the night stick did any of that?

I don't think he should have brought the nightstick, either - people could get the wrong idea - but the Panthers have this idea that they are like the sherrifs of their neighborhoods, protecting people's rights and keeping the peace. They provide security.

"Run along home, now" was exactly the right response to said meathead.

[Hogan]

Huey Newton on the New Black Panther Party

As guardian of the true history of the Black Panther Party, the [Dr. Huey P. Newton] Foundation, which includes former leading members of the Party, denounces this group's exploitation of the Party's name and history. Failing to find its own legitimacy in the black community, this band would graft the Party's name upon itself, which we condemn... [T]hey denigrate the Party's name by promoting concepts absolutely counter to the revolutionary principles on which the Party was founded... The Black Panthers were never a group of angry young militants full of fury toward the "white establishment." The Party operated on love for black people, not hatred of white people.

if anyone posting here thinks the new black panthers are not a hate group, some googling around would educate them

[domoarrigato]

I'm not really sure what you are talking about your feelings for.

Threatening is exactly what we are talking about - brandishing a weapon is clearly threatening by any legal standard.

I haven't gone back or forth on any position that I'm aware of - and I'm quite sure I'm doing fine in this debate.

[Hogan]

The New Black Panther Party provoked a melee outside of Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney's campaign headquarters after she had lost a Democratic primary to her opponent, Hank Johnson. The NBPP's Chief of Staff, Hashim Nzinga, had been acting as security detail for the Congresswoman when, in a volatile confrontation, he physically attacked reporters, derogatorily calling them "Jews" and insisting that they must focus on Hank Johnson rather than on McKinney, since Johnson, he alleged, was a "Tom".

is this kinda like something a nazi skinhead would do? kinda a little bit?

[The Angry Optimist]

in fairness, there is a difference between the NBPP and the National Black Panther Alliance. The former is definitely a radical hate group and the latter is closer to the "socialist neighborhood watch" joe is talking about.

[Hogan]

my understanding is that it was supposedly one of the former at the polling place. wikipedia thinks so too, though obviously both could be wrong

[The Angry Optimist]

if it's one of the former, I'm hoping joe is going to admit how very, very wrong he is.

[joe]

brandishing a weapon is clearly threatening by any legal standard.

Posessing is not brandishing, or every policeman in America would be threatening people all day.

TAO,

Good point. Some people don't want to make suc distinctions. It's all about SCARY BLACK HAT!

Some Black Panther groups have some screwy ideas about race, but they're not going around beating up white people. Not every self-proclaimed militant is the Klan or the Nazis.

[joe]

And AFAIK, even the NBPP hasn't been involved in any actual violence, just the usual talk talk talk of self-proclaimed "militant" groups.

[joe]

There seems to be some googling around going on, to try to show how very, very wrong I am.

Because that matters a great deal to people.

Still not seeing those Black Panther bashing stories, though.

They're about as dangerous as the Salvation Army.

[BDB]

I didn't even know the Black Panthers even existed anymore until now.

[Crow Eating Dumbass]

"You realize there's no comment box at the polling site. Your vote for Perriello could just as well be construed as the vote of someone who agrees 100% with his platform."

I keep hearing this bull. In a district that safely goes GOP year in and year out, when that guy is voted out it certainly sends a message to the party he belonged to: don't do what he did! C'mon, pols are sleazy but not that stupid...

[Steven]

The Panthers, dressed in fatigues, combat boots and flak jackets -- some sporting knives on their belts -- delivered a list of demands that included the conviction of Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty.

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/434671.html

I'll look around in a few weeks, but I don't remember Salvation Army Santas with knives.

[BDB]

They voted Goode out because he has become a national punchline, and Perriello was acceptable for the Piedmont area of Virginia (unlike the serial loser they ran before, Al Weed).

[joe]

Well, BDB, that's because you're not old enough to buy beer, and nobody calling themselves "Black Panthers" have done anything noteworthy in about 30 years.

Until Tuesday, when some meathead thought it would be a good idea to stand around with one of the poll watchers while carrying a nightstick.

[CED]

I can't stand the BPP.

However: they delivered demands with knives ON THEIR BELTS!

Oh noes!

[joe]

Knives! On their belts!

Shit, I've got a knife in my pocket right now. My keys are on it.

Send the libertarian militia! I'm threatening people!

[BDB]

Unless someone raised the drinking age to 24+, I am old enough to by beer.

But you're right about the second part.

[Hogan]

there's plenty of info about them, and especially their shabazz fellow, and how objectionable they are. i'm not going to do any research for you, but you really should try to find out more about the hate groups you want to defend. i have a feeling you wouldn't be so defensive of a right leaning hate group, even if it hadn't gotten itself into any killings.

[BDB]

Besides I believe in concealed carry, so baseball bat? Yawn.

[domoarrigato]

It doesn't really matter to me that I "prove" you wrong with google. I know you are wrong on this issue - because voter intimidation is wrong and bad. It's obvious that thats what was going on and that the police chose the easy route to avoid conflict in an unsympathetic neighborhood on election day.

i have a feeling you wouldn't be so defensive of a right leaning hate group, even if it hadn't gotten itself into any killings.

Exactly my point in full.

[joe]

Unless someone raised the drinking age to 24+, I am old enough to by beer.

Sure you are..uh..."Ahmed Lichtenstein."

Hmmm...you don't look 63.

😉

[Steven]

Here's some info from the right-wing stooges at the Southern Poverty Law Center:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?s=%22new+black+panther%22&submit=

[joe]

Hogan,

i'm not going to do any research for you

Gee, how many Google searches did you go through before you decided that?

Personally, I couldn't find anything under "Black Panthers attack" that wasn't about large cats, the Philly polling place, or 1971. But they're just like Nazi skinheads, and I'm a hypocrite. Right.

[Hogan]

Gee, how many Google searches did you go through before you decided that?

none, joe.

Personally, I couldn't find anything under "Black Panthers attack" that wasn't about large cats, the Philly polling place, or 1971. But they're just like Nazi skinheads, and I'm a hypocrite. Right.

keep playing stupid, you do it very convincingly. think what you like, but if a fred phelps like group (pretty good new panther equivalent, since it's mostly about hateful grandstanding) makes an appearance at an election place (during, say, a gay marriage initiative), i look forward to hear your defense of their "poll watching."

and i'm out. i try not to get sucked into the threads you kill.

[joe]

Here's some info from the right-wing stooges at the Southern Poverty Law Center:

Guy says stuff. News at 11.

Come on, can't any of you find somebody who got a black eye? Scary graffitti? A flaming bag of poop on David Duke's front porch?

I'll tell you, the next time I need to hire some violent thugs, I know who WON'T be pillaging my enemies' headquarters.

[joe]

If Fred Phelps is appointed a poll watcher by the local government and proceeds to watch the polls, I will call him a poll watcher.

C'mon, a purple nurple. Somebody's car getting keyed. Throw me a frikkin' bone here - these guys are supposed to be like Nazi skinheads with baseball bats.

[joe]

I try not to get sucked into the threads you kill.

I didn't even bring up the frikkin issue! I wrote that something was screwey with the balloting in Alaska, and a bunch of other people decided to attack me for not freaking out about a black panther dude being a poll watcher in Philadelphia, so they could accuse me of being biased.

[domoarrigato]

But they're just like Nazi skinheads, and I'm a hypocrite. Right.

no joe - they are just like the grandmothers at the chamber of commerce. The night and day comparison is a false dichotomy and completely dishonest - we have given your position a pretty wide and fair berth - and it hasn't faired too well. Your continued support for it is more about stubborness than any hope for vindication.

[R C Dean]

It doesn't make sense to me that turnout in Alaska, with the popular governor on the presidential ticket and two genuinely competitive races (Senate and House) would be DOWN 14% from 2004.

I agree, that's odd, and a reason to ask if anything looks funny on the ground.

So, does it?

Seriously, though, the Black Panthers brandishing weapons outside polling places were violating the law. There is no conceivable reason for them to be visibly armed outside of a polling place except voter intimidation. But its cool with joe.

I suspect his response to skinheads outside a polling place with baseball bats would be a little different. Mine wouldn't. They should all be arrested and charged.

[joe]

Actually, what I wrote is that they're about as violent as the grandmothers at the Chamber of Commerce.

And for all the furious googling and posted links, nobody can find the slightest evidence of them behaving otherwise.

[joe]

R C Dean,

So, does it? I don't know. I'm about 4000 miles away from that ground. It might be nothing, it might just be there are more uncounted absentee ballots.

"brandishing" I keep seeing this word "brandishing." From gun nut libertarians, the fact that he had a stick is "brandishing," and "brandishing" gets conflated up to "threatening," which gets conflated up to "violence."

But its cool with joe.

Uh, yeah, that's why the police made the guy leave, and why I'm glad they did. Because of how cool I am with that.

I know Republicans are supposed to like "bootstraps," but this is getting ridiculous. A guy dressed like someone in a group that isn't violent, but took the name of an old group that was violent, brings a stick because he thinks it's his job to keep order at a polling place. The police are called, and make him leave. I say they did the right thing, but really, what I'm saying is how cool I am with black panthers threatening people with weapons at polling places.

That B you made out of straw is backwards, RC.

[joe]

I suspect his response to skinheads outside a polling place with baseball bats would be a little different.

Skinheads kill people. It's really not hard to find stories about violent skinheads attacking people.

That you can't distinguish between violent people and nonviolent people, when it suits you, doesn't reflect badly on me, RC. It just shows that for SOME reason, you imagine violent threats where none exist. Gee, I wonder what it could be.

[joe]

Tell you what, RC.

Google "Black Panter attack."

Then google "Skinhead attack."

Then tell me again what a hypocrite I am for treating them differently, and how much better you are for considering them indistinguishable.

[Big Plucky]

On the one hand, some folks in this thread are comparing a very specific subset of a very specific group (y'know... not the neighborhood watch ones... the OTHER ones...) with a large amorphous boogeyman (nazi skinheads)

so we're not exactly comparing apples to apples, are we?

Sure, it is possible that no black panther has done any political violence in 30 years or so. Does that mean that fear of SCARY HAT BLACK GUY is totally ridiculous? I suspect not.

Sure, white supremacist groups all over the globe have done violence much much more recently than NBPP, etc. Much much bigger sample size, however.

I, personally, am not scared of black men with berets on. But to imply that anyone who is scared of them is silly or stupid is disingenuous. There IS a history of violence by black men in berets, just as there IS a history of violence by white men with no hair.

[GILMORE]

You people know nothing about black panthers and Hate Groups and the significance of dressing scary.

THESE guys know all

http://www.thenarrative.net/archive/blackisraelites.jpg

[joe]

What, did they lose a bet?

[capelza]

Cheeerist...I come to this thread to read about possible voter supression and find a wankathon on two numbnuts dressed up like BP of old. In a black voting district! OMFG!

They wouldn't scare...certainly not anymore than the cops around here that shave their heads and point their long weighted "flashlights" in my eyes when they are supposedly just asking "friendly" questions about someone I know , after I have invited them into my house. Skinhead paramilitary wankers in a town with less than 10K people in it, hours from any metropolis.

Though I do have to give the one cop credit, when his skinhead pal kept flashing the damn thing in my eyes I finally reached over and pushed it down...the other cop laughed.

Anyhoo...the only people who felt threatened, apparently, by the "thug" "weilding" the nightstick was the GOP poll worker who called Fox news...something like that anyway.

[R C Dean]

The modern "black panthers" are about as violent as the Chamber of Commerce.

Which explains the weapons, I suppose.

joe, it doesn't really matter what color they were, or how they cut their hair, or any of that (which was my point all along, if you put your Reading Comprehension Pants on and reread my post).

What matters is that they were carrying weapons at the entrance to a polling place. Which is illegal.

I've seen the video. I know an intent to intimidate when I see it. So lets hear it: what was their benign purpose in doing that?

[Rick Sincere]

There were no votes "lost" in Carver or any other precinct in Charlottesville. The votes were recorded in the precinct and delivered to the Office of Voter Registration on the night of the election.

What happened is that an incomplete result was reported by telephone from the precinct to the Registrar's Office on election night. The votes were tallied later that night according to proper procedures, and confirmed at the canvass on Wednesday and Thursday. There were lawyers for both the Republican and Democratic parties observing the canvass and they can confirm that no votes were ever "lost," even temporarily.

A simple telephone call asking for clarification would have been appropriate before suggesting that something untoward had occurred in Charlottesville.

There is a reason that the results reported on election night are called "unofficial."

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