The Friday Political Thread: You Betcha

Unconvincing Quote of the Week
"Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also."
- Sarah Palin, Republican vice presidential candidate, ostensibly talking about the powers of the office she's seeking

The Week in Brief
- The Senate, then the House, rammed through the multi-hundred-billion bailout (later reframed as a "rescue") of Wall Street.
- A guy from Scranton and a chick from Alaska won a lottery to star in their own 90-minute TV pilot.
- The McCain campaign right-sized its operations in Michigan.
- Voters started strutting their stuff.

Below the Fold
- Katie Halper gets dirty.
- Wayne Allyn Root takes on Palin and Biden.
- Declan McCullagh breaks down the bailout.
- And so does David Freddoso.
- Sean Scallon misses the old, paleocon Palin.

This week's Politics 'n' Prog is all about the bailout.

Comments

[horsewithnonick]

The Senate, then the House, rammed through the multi-hundred-trillion bailout (later reframed as a "rescue") of Wall Street.

ummm...trillion?

[Doug]

I don't know about anybody else but I have this sudden urge to change our national anthem to Sixteen Tons.

[David E. Gallaher]

Good one Doug.
Hitting bottom is hard to do, but the more government gets involved--too late now--the longer it will take to hit bottom, therefore the longer it will take to get back on the path to recovery.

Ol' pea-pickin' Ruthless

[JMR]

"Think Cheney was a power grabber? I'm gonna be explicit about it! I might run TWO intelligence agencies from my office!!"

[shecky]

via Andrew Sullivan, this insane bit from NRO's Rich Lowry:

I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.

What else can be said? Despite the result on Nov 4, McCain/Palin will always be the winners at NRO.

[Timon19]

Sweet Mary, Mother of God...that quote was utterly incomprehensible. I can't believe any of you guys sat through multiple hours of that.

[Elemenope]

Biden dicked up the "what's VPOTUS's job?" question just as badly, if more coherently, as Palin did.

It was the only point in the debate where I could see them operating at the same retarded level.

[Johnny C.]

Has Rich Lowry ever been laid? wtf

[Doug]

Incidentally, Sarah Palin's approval ratings back home have slipped into the 60s. Granted, most governors would kill for those numbers, but a 15 point drop is worth noting. From Wednesday's Anchorage Daily News:

Moore said those numbers were likely driven by the harsher tone Palin has adopted on the national campaign trail, as well as the fallout from Troopergate, which involves the firing of the state's public safety commissioner.

She hasn't lost me yet, but she will if she doesn't lose the caustic, arrogant attitude when she gets back.

[lho]

Food for thought.

[ChrisH]

I know anyone who follows a link to Allyn Root's site deserves whatever they get, but...

I have to this is causing me to reconsider whether maybe we DO need drug prohibition.

Oh. He WASN'T stoned when he wrote that?

They could actually make a good pair: Moose and Squirrel.

[Z]

elemenope : "Biden dicked up the "what's VPOTUS's job?" question just as badly, if more coherently, as Palin did."

are you a retard or what? Palin wants to expand the power of the VP past cheney's wet dreams and you think they were equally lame on this issue?

That was the single lowest point for Palin.

[ChrisH]

I have to this is causing me

I have to SAY this is causing me...

[always Preview, always Preview, always Preview...]

[mayoromalleysuxs]

The more I read Weigel's material the more I am convinced that he went to Tatnall, lived in Centerville and sneers at G.W. Bush as being born on third plate and thinking he's hit a homerun. No doubt Biden thinks that going to Archmere Academy was a typical working class thing to do as well.

Palin may not be perfect, but Biden is a gasbag and a tool. Biden is responsible for my slide away from a 17 year old anti-war, hold-hands, sing kum-bi-ya Democrat to a cynical middle of the road Republican. Christ, I am from Delaware. Biden came to speak at my school when I was in eleventh grade. I can't remember if he actually was Senator yet, but his first wife had died by then. Biden waxed on about how we needed to not be selfish, protect the environment, and conserve gasoline. After the lecture, he got into a cherry Corvette Sting Ray, blue if I remember correctly, and sped away - Asshole.

[the innominate one]

Iho: in 2004, which party ran both houses of congress and held the white house? if they knew this was coming, why didn't they do something when they held power in congress?

[John-David]

Is Barack Obama the New World Man?

[voxpo]

Most thick-headed thing I've read all day award goes to Barney Frank:

"Ever mindful of the danger that George Bush will lead us down the road to socialism, we will be monitoring this closely," Frank told the House.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/03/bail_out/

I guess he doesn't know much about paving roads or sulfur.

[Orange Line Special: Go Easy o]

1. This is a must-read post: How to Defeat Barack Obama. If someone doesn't back that plan, they either want BHO to win or they really don't care. GOP hacks should especially see the second update.

2. Here's the latest smear from the BHO campaign and here's an earlier smear.

3. Here's more on their very questionable contributions.

4. And, here's the Reason theme song.

* This is an extra special "Go Easy on Weigel Edition" because the last time I left comments on one of his posts they were deleted, and I don't want to make him crack completely or anything. MattW has not replied to my request for more information.

[ChrisH]

I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me."

Yeah! I had a similar experience! I was listening to it on the radio in my car, and I thought "now I'm jealous of that moose, because she probably was sneaking up on him, and he didn't have her voice peel the myelin off his auditory nerve. Lucky damn moose!"

Yeah, it was like that.

[mayoromalleysuxs]

Is Barack Obama the New World Man?

Nope, the effing messiah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exRH_ngVUVQ&feature=related

Change is not the same thing as progress

[David E. Gallaher]

It has just occurred to me that our economy may be a little like Wendy's after Dave Thomas died, except the key person who died was Milton Friedman. I thought central bankers had finally learned Milton's lesson that inflation is simply a function of money supply, but now I'm not so sure.

My above was inspired by Justin Raimondo's latest in Antiwar.com

Peaceful Anarchist Ruthless

[Elemenope]

are you a retard or what?

Sometimes I am slow, but I like to think it is because I am deliberate in my movements.

Palin wants to expand the power of the VP past Cheney's wet dreams and you think they were equally lame on this issue?

That's not how I read the answer. I thought that she was simply fumbling about and settled on the crap about "leeway room" and "flexibility" in the Constitution because she was floundering.

That was the single lowest point for Palin.

No way. Her "faux folksy" destroyed many other answers far more effectively by my (and several other people's) language parser in my brain shutting down from a mishmash error, thus missing whatever scraps of content that *might* have followed.

FWIW, she hit more of the technical points correctly than Biden (who misidentified what Article of the Constitution defines the Executive Branch, and also misstated the power of VPOTUS as "only tie-breaking votes" obviously neglecting the power *to preside over the Senate*.) Both gave some claptrap about an advisory role to the POTUS (and frankly, Biden's "I'll be in the room every time the president makes a decision" line was way creepier than Palin's bumbling about.)

And technically, by statute the VPOTUS does have other defined duties, such as managing NASA.

All around, a shitty clusterfuck.

[mayoromalleysuxs]

...because the last time I left comments on one of his posts they were deleted,...

Ah, he did go to Tatnall! 😉

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Change is not the same thing as progress"
Iraq.
Katrina.
Budget Deficets.
Prescription Drug Benefit.
Harriet Meyers.
Bailouts.

I think change from all that would be progress. You don't?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I forgot torture and wiretapping...

[BDB]

MNG, STILL think this election is a "toss up"? Can you say that? RLY?

[BDB]

MNG, he'll say something about Jimmy Carter and Communists. Srssly, that's what the right wing blogs have been using as a "strategy" since they were down.

I guess next they'll talk about Atari 2600s and Eight Track tapes.

[Kolohe]

are you a retard or what?

Sometimes I am slow, but I like to think it is because I am deliberate in my movements.

And to your credit, you never go full retard.

Her "faux folksy" destroyed many other answers far more effectively by my (and several other people's) language parser in my brain shutting down from a mishmash error, thus missing whatever scraps of content that *might* have followed.

Speaking of parsing... 🙂

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Let me check realclearpolitics.com. It's weeks to go still.

You don't see a Wilder effect in the polls?

[BDB]

"You don't see a Wilder effect in the polls?"

Can you give me an example of one that isn't from the 1980s?

BTW, McCain has pulled out of Michigan in case you didn't hear.

[BDB]

Check the "no toss ups" electoral map, MNG.

[David E. Gallaher]

Mr. Nice Guy,
For sure we need a little more than change.
A light-hearted atheist associate of mine performs the mystical hair-dryer ceremony to exorcise the baptismal water from the heads of recovering religionists.
Is that what you had in mind?

Nudistic, atheistic peaceful anarchist, recovering USMC, Ruthless.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Just got back from realclearpolitics and pollster.com. It does look good for him. I'll note that many of the leads are not that large. I'll also note that a stronger candidate would have bigger leads in more states.

Was there any Wilder effect for Ford in TN?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Did I read those polls right that Obama is now ahead in FL? If that holds then that is it...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Is that what you had in mind?"

Uhh, no David, not really.

[BDB]

"Was there any Wilder effect for Ford in TN?"

No. In fact, he did better than his polls, because some African Americans were afraid to tell (presumably white) pollster that they were voting for the black guy. This happens in southern states a lot (esp. VA and NC in the Democratic primaries).

"Did I read those polls right that Obama is now ahead in FL? If that holds then that is it..."

Yes. And they polled Sarasota County--one of the most conservative in the state. Bush won it by +20. McCain leads by +2.

[BDB]

Also, remember small leads mean more in October than they do in July. Peoples minds are pretty much solidified by now barring a meltdown on the level of "macaca".

[Mr. Nice Guy]

What other state-wide races featured African-Americans since the 1980's.

[BDB]

Deval Patrick in Mass. He did as expected, winning.

Lynn Swan and Michael Steele (black Republicans in PA and OH, respectively). They got shellacked but they got their asses kicked by the same amount they were losing in the polls. Nobody was lying to pollsters.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

BDB
I'm not sure that is enough data points to make me think a Wilder effectg won't be found this time. And, Presidential races may be different.

[BDB]

If there is such a Bradley Effect, why did McCain pull out of MI?

If he (and his internal pollsters) don't think he will win in MI with the Bradley Effect, where will it work? It doesn't exist. It hasn't existed since the 80s. It's like in 1960 you're afraid someone will lose because they are Catholic, citing Al Smith.

[BDB]

What do you make of Obama *overpreforming* his polls in the primaries? Especially VA and NC?

[Your Good Buddy Johnny Clarke]

I'd always thought Palin's smile was an irritating, arrogant smirk, but apparently the Republican male interprets it as some bizarre mating signal.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that when she falls back on that folksy crap, we all cringe and think "Shut the f*** up." And I'm a guy who drives an old crappy American car and drinks WAY more beer than she ever has or will, so my downwardly mobile "Joe-six pack" cred is rock solid.

[Kolohe]

What other state-wide races featured African-Americans since the 1980's.

Also, the Lt Gov of Maryland earlier this decade. (a republican; not sure if md is like va and a split ticket state)

[BDB]

Bobby Jindal in LA is a minority, and won.

Also, Richardson in New Mexico (minority).

[David E. Gallaher]

What is the name of the character on Prairie Home Companion that already has the Sara Palin accent down pat?

I know it's Sue Russell, but I can't think of her character up in Lake Woebegone.

[Elemenope]

Also, Richardson in New Mexico (minority).

Yeah, but in New Mexico, he's only just a minority by the grace of whatever. And his name sounds non-Hispanic, so on the phone polls that might wash out any Bradley Effect that might be present.

But I agree on the larger point. The Bradley Effect, the the point where it ever might have existed, it doesn't seem to exist now, at least on the national stage.

[BDB]

Speaking of names, I think the name "Hussein" has been repeated so much now that it's mainstream. Obama should really be thanking Hillary Clinton right now.

[Max]

I think change from all that would be progress. You don't?

In any case, we won't get change. Politicians may talk about "change", but you can't reach the pinnacle of power without convincing everyone important that you won't change anything.

[David E. Gallaher]

"you can't reach the pinnacle of power without convincing everyone important that you won't change anything."

To put a finer point to it, Max, don't rock the boat?
It's the essence of conservatism.

[rusty]

Can't speak for anyone else, but this election campaign has ended any illusions I had about Reason being an independent pro-libertarian magazine. Bye Bye subscription. I guess the temptations of free liquor, possible book deals, yo que se, proved too much. Reason is the official voice of libertarian leaning Democrats, pure & simple. Review the articles, blog entries, etc. The snarkiness, the need for acceptance from libs...They just don't want to be left out of the parties. Sad. Guess Welch was the first sign (more precisely, Reason's not noticing that he was a dem cheerleader in disguise from the beginning). Pathetic sellouts.

[Rusty]

and of course suddenly Michael Young is persona non grata...wouldn't want any ideological divergences to appear. Like I said, sad. I won't be voting for either main party candidate, but it's clear who Reason will be. And its staff has been well trained and/or recruited. Pathetic. Anyone know any Independent libertarian leaning magazines?

[Eric Dondero]

Sarah Palin was just interviewed by Carl Cameron on Fox News.

She just came out strongly against Kelo and Eminent Domain, and spoke passionately for private property rights.

We've got the video at Libertarian Republican blog. (click above link.)

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

rusty | October 3, 2008, 9:55pm | #

Can't speak for anyone else, but this election campaign has ended any illusions I had about Reason being an independent pro-libertarian magazine. Bye Bye subscription

*Drink*

[joe]

Drink!

[joe]

SNL needs to bring back Will Farrell to do a Sarah Palin Celebrity Jeopardy sketch.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Reason is the official voice of libertarian leaning Democrats, pure & simple. Review the articles, blog entries, etc. The snarkiness, the need for acceptance from libs...They just don't want to be left out of the parties. Sad. Guess Welch was the first sign (more precisely, Reason's not noticing that he was a dem cheerleader in disguise from the beginning)."

I wish.

Welch wrote his book about McCain BEFORE McCain was the GOP nominee. Rusty, can you not remember the passionate hate that the right, not the "libertarian leading Democrats" had for John McCain before he became the nominee? Welch is just being consistent, which is something you can't say for all the right wing types that crapped on McCain as the Devil for years and now proclaim him as the Second Coming...Welch recently made the libertarian case for McCain here on Reason if you didn't catch it...

Another factor is that libertarian or socialist it is just hard not to face the fact that the Republicans did a terrible job governing the past eight years. Terrible in the sense of starting multi-billion dollar wars and swelling government, and terrible in the sense of mismanaging every major thing they undertook to do. There is such a thing as accountability. Keep the same party in power too long and you get something quite yucky.

[Elemenope]

She just came out strongly against Kelo and Eminent Domain, and spoke passionately for private property rights.

Someone apparently told her about another Supreme Court case.

She's up to two, now!

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"They just don't want to be left out of the parties."

Yeah, you know, liberals run all the great parties. Hard to have a great time when Orin Hatch is supposed to bring the drinks.

[SIV]

Cindy McCain's junkie confessions are on ABCs 20/20 right now. Wished I had caught it all.

[The Orange Line Runs Silent an]

Rusty writes: And its staff has been well trained and/or recruited. Pathetic. Anyone know any Independent libertarian leaning magazines?

Don't know any. However, BHO's supporters seem to be under the mistaken impression that everyone is going to forget their advocacy for him, including repeating his lies. In case he wins, I urge everyone to never let them forget: throw it back in their faces every chance you get. If he wins, there will be plenty of opportunities to do that.

MNG writes: which is something you can't say for all the right wing types that crapped on McCain as the Devil for years and now proclaim him as the Second Coming.

Very few people are acting about McCain the way they acted about Bush. In fact, I was strongly against Bush when all the right-leaning hacks were willing to lie for him.

Now, I'm strongly in favor of McCain, but only because I realize just how bad BHO would be, especially with a Dem Congress.

I don't really understand why many others aren't the same, but I suspect one possibility might be that they want things to be bad so they can whine about it and increase their traffic. For instance, I've never been impressed by Patterico's intelligence, but you'd think that if he were as concerned about bias and BHO as he pretends to be he would have helped push my open letter (link above).

[BDB]

The Republican blogs, specifically the local ones, are going nuts now. They are ceasing to make sense.

By November they're going to be just babbling incoherently about gulags and concentration camps for Republicans, as Barack HUSSEIN Obama surrenders to the World Wide Caliphate.

[BDB]

It is really like a mirror image of the leftist blogs in 2004.

[BDB]

Oh yeah, I forgot. JIMMY CARTER!!!!!!

[bartman]

She just came out strongly against Kelo and Eminent Domain

Actually, she came out against imminent domain.

She has no clue about the content of the talking points she's parroting.

[Brandybuck]

She just came out strongly against Kelo and Eminent Domain, and spoke passionately for private property rights.

Yet she supports her running-mate's vote on the trillion+ bailout scheme. No one who voted for any of these bills this week will ever get a vote of mine.

[SIV]

Yet she supports her running-mate's vote on the trillion+ bailout scheme. No one who voted for any of these bills this week will ever get a vote of mine.

I'm not going to fault Palin for that.She is stuck with whatever position the McCain campaign takes. She didn't vote for it.
She could be completely opposed to the bailout but can't say it as the GOP VP nominee.

[Orange Line Special]

BDB writes: By November they're going to be just babbling incoherently about gulags and concentration camps for Republicans, as Barack HUSSEIN Obama surrenders to the World Wide Caliphate.

It's not that bad; clearly, Obama has been vetted by the East Coast establishment so don't look for him to start talking about land reform.

However, he clearly has issues with the First Amendment, and what's even worse are his followers. He hasn't exactly shown an interest in tamping down their facistic tendencies, among many other examples that could be provided. Note that the last was featured even at Reason; apparently there are some Potomac bridges even they aren't willing to cross.

BTW, here's what I wrote on November 1, 2004 where I suggested voting for Kerry. In retrospect, a lot of things would be better now if more people had taken my advice.

[shecky]

Actually, she came out against imminent domain.

To be fair, imminent demean can be quite cruel.

[shecky]

[Bingo]

This is the worst friday free-for-all ever.

Hey Weigel, Obama voted for FISA and now this. WTF? When are you going to start ripping into this ideological charade? You're worse than Steve Chapman if you don't.

[TrickyVic]

"""No one who voted for any of these bills this week will ever get a vote of mine."""

I thought it was worth saying twice.

[gmatts]

"Actually, she came out against imminent domain.

She has no clue about the content of the talking points she's parroting."

That was great! I guess she got Supreme COurt decisions mixed up w/ the concept of imminent threats. In fairness to her though, she was chewing gum at the time so it's reasonable that she wasn't able to do both.

I was also shocked that alot of the questions had to do with those meanies in the media. Stupid jerks.

[gmatts]

"SNL needs to bring back Will Farrell to do a Sarah Palin Celebrity Jeopardy sketch."

She'll take The Penis Mightier for $200.

[Elemenope]

I'm not going to fault Palin for that.She is stuck with whatever position the McCain campaign takes. She didn't vote for it.
She could be completely opposed to the bailout but can't say it as the GOP VP nominee.

But SIV, during the debates she said that they disagree on many things! And he respects her for it! And she doesn't have to give up her beliefs just so she can be on the ticket with him!

Unless that was bullshit (NO WAY!!), she surely can speak out. She claimed she could, at any rate, so if she doesn't she has only herself to blame. And you no longer get to say "oh, well, what she *doesn't say, that's her real opinion, because she's been muzzled by the evil presidential candidate."

[prolefeed]

I'm not going to fault Palin for that.She is stuck with whatever position the McCain campaign takes. She didn't vote for it.

I'm gonna fault her for it. She could have come out guns blazing for it, and won over fiscal conservatives all over the country. She didn't -- and I quit watching the debate right there.

All of the Presidential or VP candidates from the major parties supported the bailout, which is an epic fail for me.

Go Bob Barr! We're number 1 -- well, number 1 in the sense of getting 1% of the vote.

Sigh.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"I'm not going to fault Palin for that.She is stuck with whatever position the McCain campaign takes."

This creates kind of a Freudian non-falsifiable VP wish fulfillment. Any position Palin takes vocally you don't like? That's just her having to tow the McCain line, she doesn't REALLY believe that. Any position she takes that you do like? That's the REAL Sarah Palin shining through. That plus the fact that she simply has not been in office long enough to have taken a solid stance on any issue can give you a candidate that certain people can read all of their preferences into, a gigantic wish fulfillment President. I guess it doesn't hurt my idea that she is a hot MILF...

"Go Bob Barr! We're number 1 -- well, number 1 in the sense of getting 1% of the vote."

I think it's interesting how the major parties are so successful at casting every election as CRUCIAL and CLOSE so that you simply MUST NOT "waste" your vote on a candidate that you actually think represents your values best. They do this by demonizing their opponents, so its "McCain is not perfect but you can't waste your vote on Barr because Obama will socialize the country" or "Gore is not perfect but you can't waste your vote on Nader because Bush will create a theocracy." In actuality Bush and Gore were just not that different on many positions and McCain and his party are more than willing to socialize things and grow the government if called upon...

Well, at least both Biden and Palin, McCain and Obama are against gay marriage.

She might be an idiot, but dems are tools.

[Fluffy]

Have you seen the latest McCain ad attacking Obama for not pushing hard enough for the bailout?

McCain didn't only want the bailout bill, he is determined to OWN the bailout bill.

And the text of the ad mocks Harry Reid for saying that he didn't know what the government could do to fix the problems on Wall Street. So not only does John McCain want to OWN the bailout bill, he specifically and deliberately mocks any statement that has even the ring of Hayekian humility about it: If you don't think more spending and more regulation by the state is always the answer to economic problems, John McCain will MOCK you.

[Fluffy]

And by the way: FREE OJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OJ Simpson has been the victim of a horrible injustice.

The court and the jury in Nevada have just ruled that, if you are going to a confrontation with people you think have robbed you, if you bring a gun along you deserve to go to jail for the rest of your life.

When I was in college, some friends of mine asked me to meet them in NYC for New Year's Eve. While we were there, their car was broken into and some luggage and personal items were stolen. They ended up going to a street where junkies spread out stolen items to sell them, and actually found the needle in the haystack and found some of their stuff and got it back. According to the court in Nevada, if they had had a gun with them when they did this, they deserved to go to jail for the rest of their lives.

Fuck Nevada.

[Davebo]

Go Bob Barr! We're number 1

I will never understand that. Obama doesn't have much of a record.

Bob Barr does. And it's about as un-libertarian a record as one could imagine.

And yet, Resonoids have the courage to believe.

[ktc2]

The "folksy" bullshit really just seemed completely insincere and contrived, but apparently the fundy/redneck hordes are eating it up.

http://forums.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=184&pollShowResults=1

These people clearly live full retard.

[BDB]

"He hasn't exactly shown an interest in tamping down their facistic [sic] tendencies,"

I hate Jonah Goldberg.

P.S.--It's spelled "fascistic". Not only do you not know what the word means, you can't spell it correctly.

[J sub D]

No one who voted for any of these bills this week will ever get a vote of mine.

Bob Barr '08. Or don't vote for POTUS.

[brotherben]

J sub, I'm thinkin of writin in, "Carl Childers." I like the way he talks.

[Just Plain Brian]

I'm thinkin of writin in, "Carl Childers." I like the way he talks.

It's not just you:

"I reckon I could run the country if I don't give out"

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Have you seen the latest McCain ad attacking Obama for not pushing hard enough for the bailout?"

I saw one that attacked Obama for being FOR the bailout. Yes, the one that McCain suspended his campaign to go get passed.

I like McCain but his campaign is a trip.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Bob Barr does. And it's about as un-libertarian a record as one could imagine."

That's not true, but even to the extent it is, Barr has made a truly honest attempt over the past couple of years to explore the libertarian perspective and has seemed to have made a genuine and intellectually honest change on most issues that would be a libertarian (disclaimer: I'm not a libertarian, not that there's anything wrong with that). I mean, what do you think he's getting from all that effort if he's not a genuine convert to the ideas?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I have mixed feelings about Obama taking the lead. I prefer Obama overall, and most of all I want accountability for the GOP for their eight years of executive malfeasance.

Having said that, I think McCain has shown a lot of integrity in the past and I hate to see him pay for his rival G.W.'s sins. Also, I honestly think that many reforms I would like to see (global warming, banking & securities regulation) have a better chance of passing under a McCain presidency because the GOP senators will not filibuster. I mean, easily the greatest liberal reform in the past twenty years, the Americans With Disabilities Act, passed under a GOP President. I don't think that was a coincidence...

[BDB]

The most conservative reform (the '96 welfare act) was passed under a Democratic President. Ha!

[BDB]

The year 2000 McCain is dead, MNG.

[J sub D]

The most conservative reform (the '96 welfare act) was passed under a Democratic President. Ha!

To be fair, a GOP congress sent welfare reform up to Clinton two previous times* for a veto. He was getting his ass kicked in opinion polls over it so he did the politic thing and signed it.

Also to be fair, with a GOP congress, GWB made no serious attempts to reform any government giveaway program.

Reagan with a Dem congress - successful.
Clinton with a GOP congress - successful.
It is not always that way (Nixon, George H.W. Bush**) but it is worth pondering.

* I'm working from memory here. Maybe one, maybe three.

** Who wasn't horrible. The Desert Shield/Desert Storm thing was masterful international politics.

[BDB]

Yeah, I appreciate Desert Shield/Storm now. Too bad he is associated with his son forever now in history.

[BDB]

J sub-

He DID pledge to "End welfare as we know it" in 1992, though, and he did live up to that promise, amazingly. Since, you know, he's a Clinton, which means he's a self-serving liar.

[BDB]

Actually, Nixon was very good, too, if you look at his international politics.

Sometimes I think we should have a Prime Minister type position for domestic policy and leave the President to conduct foreign and military policy only.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

BDB | October 4, 2008, 12:48pm | #

J sub-

He DID pledge to "End welfare as we know it" in 1992, though, and he did live up to that promise, amazingly. Since, you know, he's a Clinton politician, which means he's a self-serving liar.

fixed

[JMR]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that supposedly Wachovia's situation was bad enough for a federally helped Citi bailout, but then Wells Fargo came in and ate it instead? It's almost as if insiders are getting some especially sweet deals or something, but I *know* that could never happen!!

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

I mean, seriously? Some people are a source of constant amusement for me.

We, the peeps, allow our system of government to incrementally morph from the "citizen legislator" model of the late 1700's into an Imperial Congress. A system where our Congressmen more closely resemble Don Vito Corleone:

"Bonasera, Bonasera. What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? If you'd come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And if by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you. ".

They have virtual tenure (absent the live boy-dead girl scenario) through gerrymandering, and the one-hand-washes-the-other symbiosis of crony corporatism and DC insider which creates not only political AND business corruption, but also deep pocket incumbency.

The only comparatively positive aspect of the Presidency is the planned obsolescence of the 22nd Amendment.

We (the country in general) allow them to distract us with bullshit:

Bush: Hey, you got Bread in my Circus!

Congress: You got Circus all over my Bread! (apologies to Reese's PB cups)

Then, you pick sides between Cancer and AIDS, and scream over each other about which group is the "crook".

Well. Fuck. Me.

Wow, two froth-at-the-mouth rants in two days...I think I might need to up the dosage.

[J sub D]

He DID pledge to "End welfare as we know it" in 1992, though, and he did live up to that promise,

After the electorate spanked him by giving the Newt led GOP control over congress. Think it would have happened otherwise?

I honestly think Slick Willie was a more than competent president when his worse instincts were brought under control by the opposition. You have to admire his political skill in office.

[J sub D]

Actually, Nixon was very good, too, if you look at his international politics.

I'm certain it was an oversight taht you omitted to use the qualifier "only".

War on Drugs Liberty.
Watergate and enemies list.
Wage and price controls.

But opening up to the PRC was a good geopolitical move.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

BDB | October 4, 2008, 12:54pm | #

Sometimes I think we should have a Prime Minister type position for domestic policy and leave the President to conduct foreign and military policy only.

Are you really ready for the permanent end to grid-lock? After all, in parliamentary systems the gang in power gets to appoint the PM. (for reference, see the last 8 years)

[Elemenope]

After all, in parliamentary systems the gang in power gets to appoint the PM.

And yet, most parliaments and the countries that they serve do not melt down into an amorphous puddle the way that gridlock-aficionados would have you believe.

It's almost as if they are asserting a theorem and then ignoring all data contrary to theory...

[BDB]

Yeah, I meant to say "only".

His domestic policies blew. But talking to Mao took stones.

[J sub D]

As I understand the customs at H&R, Friday Political Thread means I can bring up anything I wish if it is remotely related to politics.

Suspected US Missile Strike Kills 20 in Pakistan

Three facts -
1) It looks like we got what we were aiming for.
2) Neither Congress nor NATO have authorized war in Pakistan, our professed partner in the war on terror.
3) Barack Hussein Obama first publicly said we should, and he would, do this.

Three questions -
a) Should the Bush administration be following a strategy first publicly voiced by Obama?
b) Does it matter in the elction that he is?
c) Should we give a rat's ass about the forthcoming objections by the Pakistan government.

No need to phrase your answers in the form of a question.

[Bingo]

I just found out that, in 2000, Arizona passed legislation that advocates secession if martial law is declared.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/legtext/44leg/2r/bills/hcr2034p.htm

[Elemenope]

I just found out that, in 2000, Arizona passed legislation that advocates secession if martial law is declared.

That's pretty cool. I bet Texas has one lying around in a drawer somewhere, too...

[cunnivore]

The only downside to that would be that Sherriff Joe Arpaio would be freed from what little federal oversight he has to deal with now.

[Borman]

"The only downside to that would be that Sherriff Joe Arpaio would be freed from what little federal oversight he has to deal with now."

That's a feature. Not a bug.

[Elemenope]

That's a feature. Not a bug.

Indeed. In old Texas, didn't they run out on a rail the corrupt and abusive lawmen?

Nowadays, you can get in trouble for that. If Texas had its druthers, perhaps shooting a cop "who needed killing" would not be an offense so much as a public service. Much like shooting the guy you catch trying to diddle your kid.

Man, those were the days. (I'm only half-kidding).

[Elemenope]

I just finished watching Jericho, and I can't get over the deep and abiding hilarity of having the sovereign state of Texas as the decisive swing state in an east/west American Civil War (part II).

It just seems right, somehow.

[Kolohe]

a) Should the Bush administration be following a strategy first publicly voiced by Obama?

I don't know what it is, but their should be a catchy name for the opposite of argument from authority. i.e. if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude. (That said, I think a lot a people mistake the caveat of 'past performance does not *guarantee* future results' with 'past performance does not *predict* future results). All of which is an excessively longwinded roundabout way a saying , 'sure, if it's a good idea.' (this answer still begs the more important question, is it a good idea? 8 ball is on the shelf and too lazy to grab it)

b) Does it matter in the election that he is?
George Bush no longer matters in this election. That is to say, opinions about W are fixed and are already accounted for in each voter's decision. (or indecision)

c) Should we give a rat's ass about the forthcoming objections by the Pakistan government.

Yes, but only from a smallish rat. Definitely not from one of those south america capybara things. Nor from any of Mrs Frisby's associates.

[joe]

J sub D,

a) The Bush Administration has been following this strategy all along. It's certainly not unique to Obama - that we would hit al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan if the Pakistanis won't is utterly uncontroversial.

b) It could matter a bit, in that McCain decided to make it an issue, and it makes yet another of his "What you don't understand..." arguments fall flat.

c) Tough one. From a strategic point of view, it might have made sense to chill a little on this sh*t for the time being, see if Mr. Ten Percent is both willing and able to get the military solidly under control and lined up with against against the Talibs and al Qaedists. Then again, initial signs haven't been good, and I'm not inclined to second-guess them on this. It's a close call.

[Just Plain Brian]

I don't know what it is, but their should be a catchy name for the opposite of argument from authority. i.e. if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude.

Sounds like the ad hominem fallacy to me, although there might be a name that's more catchy and less latin.

[Elemenope]

Sounds like the ad hominem fallacy to me, although there might be a name that's more catchy and less latin.

He's asking about the "opposite of" the ad hominem fallacy.

"Argumentum ab homine" might be a start. It means (roughly) "argument (separated) from the person".

[Just Plain Brian]

He's asking about the "opposite of" the ad hominem fallacy.

The quote from above was, "the opposite of argument from authority", and "Appeal to authority is a type of inverse ad hominem argument"

[Enough About Palin]

Saturday Night Live once again (third week in a row) has opened with a Tina Fey Palin parody. Is Tina back in the cast? If not, how is this not an in-kind political ad?

[Elemenope]

The quote from above was, "the opposite of argument from authority", and "Appeal to authority is a type of inverse ad hominem argument"

No, actually the full quote was:

"I don't know what it is, but their should be a catchy name for the opposite of argument from authority. i.e. if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude."

Unpackaged, it says:

I don't know what it is, but their should be a catchy name for the opposite of argument from authority --

If "Argument from authority is A, and A is a binary property, we are searching for ~A"

and then

if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude

Which is asking for the inverse of an "ad hominem" (defined as an argument that proceeds to *attack* an argument based solely upon its originator). So if "ad hominem" is B, and B is a binary property, we are looking for ~B.

Personally I thought the second part was more obvious, but whatever. The point is that something can be ~A [AND] ~B so long as those states are not contradictory.

And it happens that they are not. On can make an inverse ad hominem statement without appealing to authority.

[Elemenope]

Saturday Night Live once again (third week in a row) has opened with a Tina Fey Palin parody. Is Tina back in the cast? If not, how is this not an in-kind political ad?

Seeing as how many conservatives see Sarah Palin being ridiculous as some hideously perverse feature instead of a crippling show-stopping killer poke sort of bug, I can't see how they could complain. SNL is playing *up* their favorite thing about her.

[Just Plain Brian]

if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude

Which is asking for the inverse of an "ad hominem"

Not sure where you're getting inverse from there - he was simply stating the fallacy that you can't conclude an idea is bad based on the dude who has it, as in the original question which implied that a strategy might not be advisable because it came from Obama.

Perhaps I'm misreading what Kolohe intended, but I read it as:

Argument from authority - "This is a good strategy because it came from Obama"

The Opposite - "This is a bad strategy because it came from Obama"

In all likelihood, only Kolohe can clarify what he meant, but I disagree with the way you're parsing his message.

[Elemenope]

Argument from authority - "This is a good strategy because it came from Obama"

The Opposite - "This is a bad strategy because it came from Obama"

If I'm reading him right, "it came from Obama" is the part that Kolohe wants to drop out of the discussion entirely. He wanted a term for:

"This is a good [Argument] | [regardless of the fact:[it came from X]]"

which takes the specific form in this case

"This is a good strategy regardless of the fact that it came from Obama"

hence Kolohe's post:

i.e. if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude

Which is pointedly different from if he had said:

i.e. if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad good idea based on the dude

which would be an argument from authority.

-----

It's cool to disagree and all, but I think it takes very little and fairly uncontroversial parsing to get at what he was asking.

[Kolohe]

Arggh. I knew I should have looked up inverse, reverse, and observe and then used the right one.

to be clear, was i was trying to is that the wisdom of any particular policy is of course (mostly) independent on who's saying it. (but while you should not out either dismiss or accept a policy out of hand based on who's saying it, you should take the 'who' into account)

which was pretty pointless to say anyway. J sub D (whom no one can accuse of being a partisan shill, he's pretty contemptuous of everyone) was asking a question (I think) specifically about the (US domestic) politics of the cross border raids (which joe actually answered). But my statement implied that I thought J sub D implied that the policy itself was unwise because Obama advocated it and/or Bush was executing it (got it? me neither.) And most of all it illustrated the problem that I use too many parenthetical comments when I write.*

Fwiw, i'll repeat this part to clarify where I stand on the strategy itself of cross border raids:
(this answer still begs the more important question, is it[the cross border raid]a good idea? 8 ball is on the shelf and too lazy to grab it)

*i should start using asterisks more to improve readability; they don't break up sentences and mitigate the run-ons.

[Elemenope]

Kolohe, it was pretty clear the first time.

Asterisks are the bomb, though. They improve any text.*

*Batteries not included, some restrictions may apply.

[Addie Valorum]

Has no one remarked on Biden's repeated referral to the U.S. citizenry as an engine/machine, like we are there to power the politicos' dreams,lifestyles,retirements?

While I have long recognized this attitude, I found it blatant, and did not see any mention in any of the comments that I read recently. WTF?

[P Brooks]

if some dude has an idea, you can not make an a priori assertion that it's a bad idea based on the dude

My version of this is, "You can't be wrong all the time, either."

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Barack Hussein Obama first publicly said we should, and he would, do this."

At the debate Obama was criticized for criticizing these strikes, remember? It was labeled "un-American" in the simplistic GOP sense of that term (America never, ever does anything that might be unwise).

I think antagonizing Pakistan is a bad idea for what its worth. We want them to get Osama for us, but turning that whole state against us is going to help that how?

"Saturday Night Live once again (third week in a row) has opened with a Tina Fey Palin parody. Is Tina back in the cast? If not, how is this not an in-kind political ad?"

CLARIFICATION FOR STUPID PARANOID CONSERVATIVES: SNL (AND OTHERS) MAKE FUN OF SARAH PALIN BECAUSE SARAH PALIN COMES OFF AS A MORON.

There, Jesus. I mean, they were'nt running parody after parody aimed at McCain before Palin's pick. They "pick on" Sarah because she's laughable and their business is getting laughs. If conservatives don't want their nominees laughed at then they can not pick laughable candidates...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

As Obama takes the lead we should get ready to be reintroduced to Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright a lot. That'll be the McCain approach if he continues to slide. Obama will attack less and try to act all high minded (I call this the McDonalds Law, notice that McDonalds, which is above and beyond the most successful fast food joint, never mentions their competition in their ads while the competetion often takes a slug at them).

[Enough About Palin]

"CLARIFICATION FOR STUPID PARANOID CONSERVATIVES: SNL (AND OTHERS) MAKE FUN OF SARAH PALIN BECAUSE SARAH PALIN COMES OFF AS A MORON."

I'm not a Conservative, so there's no need to shout. But of course if it makes you feel better?

But I wonder, if a black man who spoke Mississippi mush-mouth where running for President, would a parody of that regional dialect be considered acceptable?

My former in-laws were from North Dakota. They sounded like the Sheriff in the film "Fargo". It didn't make them stupid, they just kind of sounded that way.

I also remember that while working at a multi-national corporation (controls, 96 countries),someone being passed over for a promotion to senior management because his southern accent, coupled with his regional grammar, made him sound rather ignorant, which they felt would cast the company in a negative light. They regretted not promoting him as he was great at his job, but they felt they had no other choice.

The whole gist of Tina Fey's parody is Palin's regional dialect, and really nothing more.

[Bill Randolph 650]

"As Obama takes the lead we should get ready to be reintroduced to Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright a lot."

And that would be bad how? Do you really buy Obama's hollow rationalizations with regard to these two men?

[J sub D]

I thought J sub D implied that the policy itself was unwise because Obama advocated it and/or Bush was executing it (got it? me neither.)

Actually I wasn't meaning to imply anything about the practicality or morality of ignoring Pakistan's sovreignity by killing enemies that we've essentially declared war on. The "legality" is obviously questionable. This is certainly somewhat different than Nixon bombing Cambodia.

The Bush Administration has been following this strategy all along. It's certainly not unique to Obama - that we would hit al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan if the Pakistanis won't is utterly uncontroversial.

August 1, 2007.

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

Got any links to Bush (or McCain) talking specifically about attacks in Pakistan publicly prior to that? Got any links to actual deliberate attacks in Pakistani territory prior to that?

[the innominate one]

Enough About Palin | October 5, 2008, 9:45am | #

...But I wonder, if a black man who spoke Mississippi mush-mouth where running for President, would a parody of that regional dialect be considered acceptable?...

Yes, if he were playing up his subcultural speech and behavioral markers as a vote-garnering strategy.

...The whole gist of Tina Fey's parody is Palin's regional dialect, and really nothing more.

It's not Tina Fey's fault that Bush, Cheney and McCain have acted so absurdly that they have destroyed satire.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Enough about Palin
It's the goofy cluelessness of her answers and the perceived contrivance of her "aw shucks, doggonit" stuff that is at the center of Fey's parody. Have you seen it?

[Kolohe]

Got any links to Bush (or McCain) talking specifically about attacks in Pakistan publicly prior to that? Got any links to actual deliberate attacks in Pakistani territory prior to that?

2nd quest first: Here's something from Feb '08.

As to the first question: I would say that it is well within the parameters of the 'bush doctrine' as most people would define it. (which, by my definition, is the unilateral* use of military force or other means to combat enemies** in the global war on terror***) It is also pretty much within the parameters of the 'clinton doctrine' as is evidenced by similar air strikes**** on afghanistan and sudan.

*unilateral is normally in the context of 'US only' - it has been flexed to mean 'executive decision only', but people like Gates have scaled that back

**feel free to use scare quotes.

***maybe deserving of scare quotes, but it's an actual term d'art.

****these air strikes were unilateral both in the sense of 'US only' and 'Executive Decision only'

[Enough About Palin]

"Yes, if he were playing up his subcultural speech and behavioral markers as a vote-garnering strategy."

You cannot say definitively that is what she is doing. You can only speculate. Having been in a road band in my youth that traveled the nation, I learned that some people just speak differently from me in sentence structure, colloquialisms and pronunciation. If you can produce old footage of Palin speaking differently, I will reconsider my assessment.

"It's the goofy cluelessness of her answers and the perceived contrivance of her "aw shucks, doggonit" stuff that is at the center of Fey's parody. Have you seen it?"

Yes, I have (see directly above).

What I find startling is how an Ivy League, Harvard Law Review Editor (great periodical BTW) has recently adopted a subtle afro-preacher way of speaking and yet no one asks why that is.

Look, I do not have a dog in this hunt. Obama/Biden sucks. Big time. I would not vote for that ticket. McCain Palin sucks. Big time. I would not vote for that ticket. All I ask is that when people compare and contrast, they do so objectively.

I spoke with my Lesbian feminist sister yesterday. She told me she could not stand Palin. Just hated her. I asked her why that is and she told me because she is offended that just by shaking her cute little ass, Palin can get rise to the level of VP candidate. She said it was the exact opposite of what true feminism was all about. I did not call her on it, but I could not help thinking, I have never seen Palin shake her ass. Moreover, I am certain that were there footage of this alleged ass shaking, it would be all over the net.

And just to avoid further confusion, my handle was not chosen because I am a Palin apologist, it's because after her speech at the RNC, for days all that Reason posted on Hit & Run were Palin items. Scores of them at a time when there was so much else going on in the world (e.g. Russian bombers and nuclear armed warships in the Caribbean at the behest of Chaves). This knee-jerk hatred fascinates me.

[Enough About Palin]

"This knee-jerk hatred fascinates me."

I should add that it is no really no different than the outlandish Obama love fest captured in the Obama as Dear Leaderesque children singing YouTube clip.

[Just Plain Brian]

I have never seen Palin shake her ass. Moreover, I am certain that were there footage of this alleged ass shaking, it would be all over the net.

It is all over the net, unless you want to get into a semantic discussion of what precisely constitutes "ass shaking"

[J sub D]

2nd quest first: Here's something from Feb '08.

My Obama link was from August '07. So that doesn't quite cover it. I concede that the Bush administration made general statements about attacking terrorists anywhere prior to that. Hell, Clinton probably said something similar. The Bush administration may have warned the Musharaff regime "you do it or we will.* Assuming honorable diplomats on both sides, we'll never know.

* I've also heard grumbles that Pakistani intelligence can't be trusted with information about the Taliban and fellow travellers.

[Kolohe]

I spoke with my Lesbian feminist sister yesterday

I was at my 'stay-at-home mom' sister's house in exurbs of Jacksonville during the Republican convention. She is the exact demographic that Palin was picked to connect. My sister, however, doesn't care for her because she doesn't think that a woman with a baby - esp a 'special needs' baby - should be going back to work so quickly, and particularly at a job that requires as much time commitment as running for nationwide office.

[Enough About Palin]

"It is all over the net"

It's nearly a quarter century old. Is it your position that being in a beauty pageant disqualifies a woman from holding public office? What about dance line or cheerleading? Some women's gymnastics floor exercise routines contain dance moves that actually do a bit of ass shaking. Are former female gymnasts disqualified in your little world too? Or are you saying that Palin entered a beauty pageant twenty-four years ago in order to eventually secure a spot on the Republican ticket? If so, that is very forward looking on her part.

But the greater point is that you seem to be unable to address Obama's recent adaptation of an Afro-preacha speaking style. Care to give it a shot or is your obsession with Palin just too much for you to over-come-ah.

BTW "Chavez"

[Enough About Palin]

"My sister, however, doesn't care for her because she doesn't think that a woman with a baby - esp a 'special needs' baby - should be going back to work so quickly, and particularly at a job that requires as much time commitment as running for nationwide office."

I can understand her position / concern. It has merit because it is reasoned as opposed to Pavlovian.

[Just Plain Brian]

"It is all over the net"

It's nearly a quarter century old. Is it your position that being in a beauty pageant disqualifies a woman from holding public office...

I didn't say any of those things you're alleging, so I'm not sure which "you" you are talking to, I merely pointed you in the right direction to see Palin shaking her ass, since that video seems to have completely passed you by.

But feel free to keep beating all those strawmen, and maybe someone will come along to actually argue those positions.

[Kolohe]

My Obama link was from August '07
ah, didn't catch the 7, thought we were talking this year.

Here is a Feb '07 article with Cheney 'warning' Musharraf to act against terrorists(presumably with the subtext 'or else we'll do it for you.' To which Pakistan said 'sod off'.)

There are probably very few non-laudatory public statements regarding Pakistan. For most of this decade, the US was very circumspect in consideration of Musarraff's tenuous position. (whether this was a good idea or not is another begged question)

Looking at some google news archives, it looks like the following happened around the time Obama made his statement. Bhutto came back from exile shortly thereafter, was engaged in a competitive parliamentary contest, but was then assassinated. Which was followed by the subsequent series of events that has now lead to Musharaff's resignation.

Now, I'm not trying to be too conspiratorial here; most of the events in Pakistan have been the result of various people and factions in Pakistan. But, what it looks like to me is that the Bush Administration cut bait with Musharaff sometime in summer '07 (which was either the cause of Bhutto's return or the result of her imminent return). And the larger 'foreign policy establishment' as well. Some of which were advising Obama. So Obama was able to come out in Aug '07 with his 'bold statement' which was held quietly by Bush administration and other people. But couldn't be held publicly by Bush because it would an irresponsible and counterproductive kick in the nuts to Musarraff. And the 'foreign policy establishment' was split among a half dozen candidates on both sides of the aisle. So they had to either say 'we disagree w/ senator obama' or keep quiet.

[Enough About Palin]

"I didn't say any of those things you're alleging, so I'm not sure which "you" you are talking to"

My mistake. My humble and sincere apology.

[the innominate one]

What I find startling is how an Ivy League, Harvard Law Review Editor (great periodical BTW) has recently adopted a subtle afro-preacher way of speaking and yet no one asks why that is.

Camille Paglia (a liberal) on salon.com (a liberal website):

" A major gaffe this summer has been that, in trying to act more casual and folksy to appeal to working-class white voters, Obama has resorted to a cringe-making use of inner-city black intonations and jokey phrasings -- exactly the wrong tactic. "

[Kolohe]

But the greater point is that you seem to be unable to address Obama's recent adaptation of an Afro-preacha speaking style.

To be fair, to my ear he doesn't sound all that different now than when he did his audio books, which is before he got famous.

And I have a habit of slipping into a slight southern dialect just from living a brief time in sw va, middle ga and north fl, even though I was raised in northern virginia by new yorkers and have spent the majority of my adult life in hawaii.

[Kolohe]

Obama has resorted to a cringe-making use of inner-city black intonations and jokey phrasings -- exactly the wrong tactic. "

You gotta admit, *nothing* was more cringe inducing this election cycle than when Hillary Clinton tried to do something like this at an MLK day thing (I think that's when it was)

[Kolohe]

Correction, it wasn't 'street,' it was just a straight out southern drawl in a speech in march at an predominately african american church. Link.

[Enough About Palin]

"Camille Paglia (a liberal) on salon.com (a liberal website):

" A major gaffe this summer has been that, in trying to act more casual and folksy to appeal to working-class white voters, Obama has resorted to a cringe-making use of inner-city black intonations and jokey phrasings -- exactly the wrong tactic.""

Smart and well-reasoned woman. My sister had me read "Sexual Personae" and "Vamps & Tramps" in the mid-nineties. Enjoyed both. But what transgendered person wouldn't? One of the things about Paglia that really struck me as honest was her writing that as a bisexual woman, her sexual attraction to males and/or females closely correlated to her menstrual cycle. I also recall reading the Salon article you reference and she also said the level Palin has advanced feminism is on par with Madonna in the 1980's. But I could be melding her last two columns into one.

[Enough About Palin]

""Camille Paglia (a liberal)" Areyou sure she's not more of a Libertarian?

[Kolohe]

It's not Tina Fey's fault that Bush, Cheney and McCain have acted so absurdly that they have destroyed satire.

Just saw a commercial on TV related to this. SNL used to have that cartoon 'the Ex-Presidents'. What's funny is that now it seems that everytime there's a disaster, Clinton and Bush 1 do team up to 'save the world'; I just saw an ad of them together for Ike hurricane relief.

[Kolohe]

Note: I think that's great, but it is funny

[the innominate one]

I believe Paglia describes herself as a liberal with libertarian leanings. She is a registered Democrat.

[Enough About Palin]

"I believe Paglia describes herself as a liberal with libertarian leanings. She is a registered Democrat."

"I myself am a libertarian and registered Democrat who voted for Bill Clinton (once gladly, once not) and for Ralph Nader in 2000."

- Camille Paglia

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=6E3E7427-0F4A-4BF3-B903-DCBA502D8D73

[prolefeed]

McCain fucking deserves to lose this election. If he had come out strongly against the bailout, that would have endeared him with the majority of the populace, on both the left and right, and I think would have closed the gap with Obama considerably.

Taking the "I'm almost exactly like my opponent, except possibly even more socialist" is SO not a winning strategy when you're a Republican and trailing in the polls.

I was talking with a hardcore right wing Republican from Florida a few days ago -- you know, one of those voters in a state that matters -- and he is incredibly pissed off at the McCain bailout thing, ready to not vote because of that for the first time ever. He can't be the only one thinking this right now.

[prolefeed]

Seeing as how many conservatives see Sarah Palin being ridiculous as some hideously perverse feature instead of a crippling show-stopping killer poke sort of bug, I can't see how they could complain.

I think most guys, when thinking about Palin and "killer pokes", don't think about software bugs, LMNOP. The non-gay response is to think about penetrating a hottie MILF during fucking.

NTTAWWT :o)

[J sub D]

Re: J sub D | October 4, 2008, 2:57pm

From today's newspaper, Turkey slams Iraqi Kurds after rebel attack kills 15 soldiers

ANKARA (AFP) - The Turkish military Sunday accused Iraqi Kurds of aiding Turkish Kurdish rebels holed up in their autonomous enclave in northern Iraq after the militants killed at least 15 soldiers in a daytime attack near the border.

If what the US did in Pakistan last week is justifiable (and I believe it was), it follows that Turkey striking Kurdish terrorists based in the Kurd controlled areas of northern Iraq (which they have done in the recent past) is equally justifiable.

After all, if the Iraqis/Iraqi Kurds are "unable or unwilling" to take control of the region ...

'Tis a fucked up world in which we live.

[Muhammad]

"'Tis a fucked up world in which we live."

Thanks you. Wouldn't want it any other way. For now.

[It Took Two Months???]

Man freed after powder found not to be cocaine
Associated Press:

A Shakopee man who spent two months in jail after being found with white powder was cleared this week after tests showed the powder was deodorant, not cocaine.

Thirty-one-year-old Cornelius F. Salonis was arrested Aug. 3 for allegedly driving drunk. He was jailed after police said they found cocaine in his car.

Salonis' attorney blames a faulty field test for the false result. Richard Hillesheim says a state crime lab concluded the powder was deodorant.

Prosecutors dismissed the felony drug charges Wednesday and allowed Salonis to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of drunken driving.
He was sentenced to a year in jail. But the judge stayed nine months of the sentence and removed another month for good behavior. So with the two months he already served, Salonis was freed.

http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_10640322?source=rss

[joe]

It's interesting that "Enough About Palin" manages to imagine both that Tina Fey's spot-on impersonation of Palin is supposed to be a derogatory reference to her accent AND find Obama's use of his own accept - instead of generic unaccented American English - is somehow disconcerting as well.

The discomfort with the - what was it again, Negro preacher? - accent suggests to me that maybe EAP is reading hostility and insult into Fey's adoption of the accent where none is intended. Sometime an accent just characterizes someone, and shouldn't be read as derogatory. You might has well say that Fey' wearing of rimless glasses is meant to be derogate Palin's eyesight.

[joe]

To answer your first question, if someone did a spot-on impersonation of your theoretical Mississippi candidate which included a pitch-perfect accent, it would be hilarious. This is what Fey does with her Palin impersonation.

If he did an exaggerated accent to mock the guy's speech patterns, that would be offensive.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"If not, how is this not an in-kind political ad?"

This was Enough About Palin's initial complaint, that SNL was somehow providing an Obama ad by focusing so much satire on Palin. I noted that they focus so much satire on Palin because she strikes many folks as moronic. As evidence I once again submit the following: there was not skit after skit parodying McCain. If there were some attempt to support Obama or hurt McCain we should have seen that.

But it does make sense if you accept that many people find Palin to be especially limited as a thinker but don't think that about McCain, whatever else they may feel about him.

Now we can talk about why people think Palin is stupid, a different question. Enough About Palin argues that it is some irrational thing aimed at her regional style of speech. Maybe that is some part of it, and to that extent that's not fair.

However I would bet it has far more to do with Palin giving the impression from WHAT she says and does (rather than how) that she is clueless, like the goofy "Putin rearing his head, you can see Russia from Alaska", the "I know more about energy than anyone in the world", the non-answers to questions (i.e., asked about carbon caps, talks about off shore drilling), not seeming to know what the Bush doctrine or an Achilles heel is, etc. (by the way, the above quotes are paraphrases so let's spare everyone any nitpicking about this or that word).

And if you watch Tina Fey's parodies that kind of stuff is all in there.

BTW-Tina Fey is not a regular cast member of SNL, but she still works for Lorne Micheals and as her gimmick includes wearing glasses like Palin it's natural she keeps being called on to do her.

[joe]

I've been watching people do characters with exaggerated Massachusetts accents my whole life.

It never occurred to me I should be offended. And some of them were ridiculously exaggerated, plainly intended to make fun of the accent itself, and not done as an impersonation of any particular individual, which means they were meant to impersonate New Englanders as a whole.

[Sambo]

"I noted that they focus so much satire on Palin because she strikes many folks as moronic. As evidence I once again submit the following: there was not skit after skit parodying McCain."

Are you certain? Because it was Palin that energized the slumping McCain campaign, so it would make sense strategically to diminish Palin as quickly and effectively as possible.

McCain parodies would likely be less effective.

[Sambo]

For someone who "strikes many folks as moronic" she's playing very well in Silicon Valley.

Joe Malchow writes:

"The original notion for northern California was to have an intimate event in the Woodside, Calif., backyard of a certain technology titan. But in the event, far, far too many Silicon Valley Republicans wanted to pay $1,000 a plate to hear from Sarah Palin. I received a call last week letting me know that the high-priced event would now be held in a ballroom. And it was going to remain high-priced.

http://www.dartblog.com/data/2008/10/008230.php

[Elemenope]

it's natural she keeps being called on to do her.

got video?

[Sambo]

"got video?"

Deep.

[the innominate one]

Enough About Palin:

Like Paglia, Bill Maher has also described himself as a libertarian. That doesn't make it so.

My point in bringing up Paglia was to give an example of someone who had criticized Obama's speech patterns, since you seemed to think that that had not happened. Congratulations to you on not acknowledging that while throwing out a lot of red herrings.

[R C Dean]

"Change is not the same thing as progress"
Iraq.
Katrina.
Budget Deficets.
Prescription Drug Benefit.
Harriet Meyers.
Bailouts.

I think change from all that would be progress. You don't?

I would, but Obama ain't bringing that change. He backed the bailout, has promised to expand government health care, and will grow the deficit. He seems to have a tin ear for who he hangs out with, so I think we'll see more Harriet Meyers/Alberta Gonzales in his administration. Whatever he says, I don't believe he can heal the planet and prevent more hurricanes.

That pretty much leaves Iraq, and at this point I don't see him doing anything different there than Bush would.

[Enough About Palin]

"My point in bringing up Paglia was to give an example of someone who had criticized Obama's speech patterns, since you seemed to think that that had not happened. Congratulations to you on not acknowledging that while throwing out a lot of red herrings."

Not to split hairs, but when I said "What I find startling is how an Ivy League, Harvard Law Review Editor (great periodical BTW) has recently adopted a subtle afro-preacher way of speaking and yet no one asks why that is." by no one, I meant no one on this blog. No one can know what everyone everywhere is saying or writing.