Gov. Sarah Palin on Scitech Issues

Just a quick round up of what I could find about Gov. Sarah Palin's take on various scitech issues.

On teaching evolutionary biology in schools:

"Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information….Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. It's been a healthy foundation for me. But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides."

On man-made global warming:

Q. What is your take on global warming and how is it affecting our country?

A. A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.

On endangered species (polar bears):

I am disappointed with U.S. Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne's decision to list polar bears as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. Measures are already in place to protect the polar bear.

On abortion (and perhaps by extension human embryonic stem cell research):

I'm pro-life. I'll do all I can to see every baby is created with a future and potential. The legislature should do all it can to protect human life.

On energy policy:

Favors opening up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for oil and gas production. "I beg to disagree with any candidate who would say we can't drill our way out of our problem or that more supply won't ultimately affect prices. Of course it will affect prices."

On access to health care:

Against the Certificate of Need (CON) program which is a regulatory process that requires certain health care providers to obtain state approval before offering certain new or expanded services. "As I said recently in my State of the State Address to the Legislature, 'Under our present Certificate of Need process, costs and needs don't drive health-care choices -- bureaucracy does. Our system is broken and expensive.' Eliminating the CON program, with certain exceptions, will allow free-market competition and reduce onerous government regulation."

More later.

Comments

[Brian]

Another great reason to pick Palin?

There's a built-in Politics & Prog tie-in. Ladies and gents, Genesis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_VkwSp4dXg

(sorry, no actual concert footage AFAIK)

[David]

"Teach both...But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides."

Are there really only two sides, fundamentalist Christian v. atheistic evolution believer? No word from catholics, jews, episcopalians, hindus, muslims, agnostics, wiccans or others on the origin of life?

[Kolohe]

Global warming would be almost an unalloyed boon to Alaska, unless it changes the rainfall patterns on south east coast enough to be more like central and southern california.

But the rest of the state would see a lot more precipitation.

[Franklin Harris]

Unlike McCain, Obama, and Biden, Palin actually seems to have more pros than cons.

[galthran]

David: The two sides are magic and science. She's just speaking from the point of view of a believer in the most popular form of magic in the USA.

[MV]

teach both?

um. no.

creationism is pure woo woo.

Franklin: no she doesn't.

[John]

As the 800th flamewar today on the subject of Governor Palin starts, did anyone hear about some big speech that was given last night? I don't think I have ever seen the air sucked from one side to the other so quickly in my life. Only time will tell if she is a good pick or not, but it certainly got McCain windward of Obama.

[bill]

you can forget seals delivering their pups on ice flows anymore. The California Grey whales would likely appreciate it. The polar bears will be seriously decimated if not eradicated, unless they change their evil ways.

I have a Reuters article I cut out of a Malaysian newspaper which sited the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report (created by the US and 7 other arctic nations), which says in summary "global warming in the next 100 years will raise the ocean level 90 cm and destroy lots of natural habitat, but hey!, we'll have so much better access to Arctic Oil! If that isn't polishing the turd, I don't know what is.

[ed]

She running for vice president for Christ's sake. The last time a president died in office from natural causes was 1945. And if President McCain gets his head blown off in Dallas, would that be such a bad thing? The concept of citizen legislators may just be getting a second chance here, and Palin's "inexperience" might not be such a bad thing, at least from a libertarian perspective.

[Franklin Harris]

MV: Yes she does.

[TrickyVic]

Doesn't the bible equate life with blood? If so, no blood, no life and life would not begin at conception by there own standard.

My problem with the many pro-life politicians is they act like God should be the one to decide the end of life, yet they have little problem with governments trumping god on the issue when it's a form of punishment. If it's ok for government to trump god, why not the citizenry?

[John]

One point on the biology question. That is a quote from a debate before the election. She never pushed the idea once in office. That says to me that that is boob bait. Not that giving boob bait is admirable, but if she really were some kind of inteligent design crazy, why didn't she do something to that effect as governor?

[J sub D]

The only reason to teach creationist theory* is to debunk it. Like the geocentric universe.

*I know it isn't one. I'm being charitable today.

[TrickyVic]

Ed, when was the last time a 72 year old was elected as president?

""and Palin's "inexperience" might not be such a bad thing, at least from a libertarian perspective."""

Right. We want an outsider that doesn't play politics as usual, yet we want them to have experience with politics as usual. I'm not suprised, both teams pick their prez candidate from the body of government with the lowest approval rating of all time. Neither has executive experience, but they do know how to rub elbows with lobbyist.

[Zeb]

Global warming would be almost an unalloyed boon to Alaska

I dont' know. Most of the state would be one big mosquito filled swamp without permafrost.

[the innominate one]

"The only reason to teach creationist theory is to debunk it. Like the geocentric universe."

agreed, but the Biblical literalists would kick up a shitstorm like you've never seen.

Jesus is just all right with me, but to take Genesis 1-2 literally and at face value is foolish.

[Elemenope]

I don't see how "Abortion" is a scitech issue so much as a moral issue. And health care access is really a fiscal/economic issue.

On the rest she, unfortunately, sounds a lot stupider than her Wikipedia article indicated. Though, to be fair, no stupider than her running-mate.

How unfortunate.

[Elemenope]

I dont' know. Most of the state would be one big mosquito filled swamp without permafrost.

"It's not weather, it's Malaria!"

[joe]

As the 800th flamewar today on the subject of Governor Palin starts, did anyone hear about some big speech that was given last night?

You mean the story that took up the top half of the front page of every morning newspaper in the country?

[bill]

How I wish an Atheist would run for president...

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

[Richard]

It dismays me how bigoted and intolerant atheist are,in an academic environment both should be presented with both presenting their arguments, for it part of a well rounded education. It not the job of the academics (in a secular environment) to prove one way or the other but to present to the the student knowledge that there different views in American Culture.

[MlR]

That says to me that that is boob bait. Not that giving boob bait is admirable, but if she really were some kind of inteligent design crazy, why didn't she do something to that effect as governor?

She did say "legislatures."

Which I have no problem with on such a contentious and ambiguous issue. Unclear if she'd go the Federalist route like I would, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[MlR]

"That says to me that that is boob bait. Not that giving boob bait is admirable, but if she really were some kind of inteligent design crazy, why didn't she do something to that effect as governor?"

She did say "legislature."

Which I have no problem with on such a contentious and ambiguous issue. Unclear if she'd go the Federalist route like I would, but it wouldn't surprise me.

"The concept of citizen legislators may just be getting a second chance here, and Palin's "inexperience" might not be such a bad thing, at least from a libertarian perspective."

No idea at this point if that's what Palin herself represents, but "from your mouth to God's ears..."

---

Sorry for the double.

[kevin]

As the 800th flamewar today on the subject of Governor Palin starts, did anyone hear about some big speech that was given last night?

You mean the story that took up the top half of the front page of every morning newspaper in the country?

First of all, no one reads newspapers anymore. Second, the papers were printed before McCain announced. This was probably a huge coup for McCain, stepping on Obama's toes li

[MlR]

Oops, you weren't talking about the pro-life quote.

Yeah, I'm an idiot.

[kevin]

should be "stepping on Obama's toes like that."

[kevin]

Creationism is obviously retarded, but I sympathize with parents who are pissed at having their kids taught in school that their parents are retards.

The solution is to let school vouchers solve the problem for us. The market would provide for creationist classes at some schools, everyone else could have their kids taught real science.

[Elemenope]

It not the job of the academics (in a secular environment) to prove one way or the other but to present to the the student knowledge that there different views in American Culture.

Sure, in an "American Culture" class.

Science, on the other hand, really isn't one of those things that lends itself to "ideological balance".

We wouldn't teach *in a science class* that the world has four corners (such as a stupidly literal reading of the Bible would indicate), would we?

[Davebo]

What about federal welfare?

She's the governor of the number 1 recipient of it in the country by far. And that doesn't even include Alaska's sweetheart deal on royalties from oil and mineral rights from federal land.

And she's already hinting she'll use the position to garner even more wilderness welfare for Alaska.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. "

HAHAHAHAHAHA, that shit is FUNNY!

Oh, she's being serious? Holy shit...

[Brandybuck]

The problem is not creationism being taught in schools, but outright and unabashed socialism. The statists WANT you to be debating creationism versus evolution, because that keeps the public's attention off of the real indoctrination going on.

The core problem isn't what's being taught in public schools, the core problem is that the vast majority have no choice but to send their children to the weekday gulags.

[Anthony Gregory]

Great point, Brandybuck.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"The core problem isn't what's being taught in public schools, the core problem is that the vast majority have no choice but to send their children to the weekday gulags."

First of all who is making anyone go to public schools? They have these things called private schools near where I live, you should check in your local area for them. Kids are allowed to go to them all the time where I live...

Second, public schools are a public good enriching us all. You know how some states will spend less money on their school systems and they have a crappy school system and so, well, businesses don't locate there and their economy sucks? Without public education this nation would be like those states.

Public education provides many people with an education that they would not otherwise get. As an education is the kind of thing that can determine everything else about a person it can be rightly said that if they did not get such educations they would have their life choices severly limited. Therefore they would have less liberty. More choices for more people. If that's statism then give me some statism!

[Siggy]

It dismays me how bigoted and intolerant atheist are,in an academic environment both should be presented with both presenting their arguments, for it part of a well rounded education. It not the job of the academics (in a secular environment) to prove one way or the other but to present to the the student knowledge that there different views in American Culture.

It's not science. Therefore, it should not be taught in science class.

[Francisco Torres]

First of all who is making anyone go to public schools? They have these things called private schools near where I live, you should check in your local area for them. Kids are allowed to go to them all the time where I live...

That's not the problem - the problem is mandatory schooling. Also, regulations and zoning laws make private schools expensive enterprises, instead of cheaper alternatives to those white elephants that we call, with a sick sense of humor, "Public Schools". Besides there is the fact that people are made to pay for the public schools anyway, through private property confiscation, or "property taxes", as we choose to euphemistically call it.

And, many private schools receive State funding, making their choice of subjects suspicious, to boot.

Second, public schools are a public good enriching us all.

Is this a statement of faith? Because you cannot possibly know what does "enrich us all", without surveying everybody, an expensive undertaking to say the least.

Public education provides many people with an education that they would not otherwise get.

This statement begs the question - you already assume people do not have choices, or assume what you want to prove. People can get education by other means, like, for starters, homeschooling. And no, it is NOT more expensive to home school than relying on public schools.

[the innominate one]

"It dismays me how bigoted and intolerant atheist are...[sic]"

Richard, I bet everyone who disagrees with your religious beliefs is a bigoted and intolerant atheist.

[Francisco Torres]

You know how some states will spend less money on their school systems and they have a crappy school system and so, well, businesses don't locate there and their economy sucks?

Really? Because many businesses are relocating to Asian countries that do not waste... pardon me, "spend" as much money on education as the US. The US is actually losing its manufacturing base, despite a seemingly better educated labor force.

Economics 101: It's the COST of labor that makes capitals move, and not necessarily how much a State decides to spend on education. By the way, education is a personal choice, it does not come magically just because a government decides to throw money at schools and teachers.

Without public education this nation would be like those states.

You cannot know that for a fact.

[Xboy]

Finally, a real Libertarian is posting on this site.

You go, Francisco!

Now, be sure to explain how the Federal income tax is unconstitutional despite the constitutional amendment that permits it.

Let everybody know that traffic rules and regulations are an intolerable abridgement of our God-given liberties ("Drive on the right? Stop on red? Not until they pull the steering wheel from my cold, dead hands!")

And it's about time somebody exploded once and for all the statist tyranny of what we call, with a sick sense of humor, "Standard Time Zones." Francisco, you're just the one to do it!

We'e all counting on you, buddy. Please don't let us down.

[ed]

Ed, when was the last time a 72 year old was elected as president?

72 is the new 62. Besides, I have a feeling this is one VP who won't face-shoot her hunting mates. That's good enough for me.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Because you cannot possibly know what does "enrich us all", without surveying everybody, an expensive undertaking to say the least."

Oh yes I can, we do it all the time. We call them elections and no one who wants to end public schools ever wins them.

"People can get education by other means, like, for starters, homeschooling."

For a large swath of the US population this is simply not an option. As I said, without public schools a great many people who know get an education would not. They would suffer and so would the public.

"The US is actually losing its manufacturing base, despite a seemingly better educated labor force." This demonstrates some of your problems. Yes better education is not tied so much to manufacturing, nor textile work I suppose. But it is tied to attracting the kind of work that needs an educated workforce.

btw-when countries modernize, i.e. go from 3rd world to developed nations, they often dump quite a bit of money into educating their populations.

"It's the COST of labor that makes capitals move, and not necessarily how much a State decides to spend on education."
Really? It's just the cost? So that's why the much more costly environment of Manhattan, NY is an economic dynamo while Topeka Kansas with all of it's low costs is such an economic backwater? Costs are not the only factor in capital movement and the "costs" that provide incentives for capital investors can be more than wages/benefits of labor (for example not living in, or putting your company HW in, a backwards shithole is something many people will "pay" a lot for). Some ECON 101 for you my friend.

[no thanks]

It's official: the Neocons have taken over McCain. Palin is woefully under qualified and untested to be in the second chair and a faint, irregular heartbeat away from being President. Supporting Creationism was the icing on the cake. I don't think she even partly believes in evolution.

What a truly crappy choice in a sea of similar but well qualified (Sen. Coburn*?) candidates, McCain picks "Monica Goodling 'light'." No. thank. you.

BTW, Technology Review has an interesting article about Obama's economic advisor (including the whole NAFTA "leak"). http://bit.ly/Obamas-Geek-Economist

* Seriously, I believe if Sen. Coburn was "let loose" he could draw more votes than Palin.

Sigh.

[TJIT]

Economic junk science is far more damaging than creation junk science. I wish there was the same amount of concern regarding economic junk science as there was creation junk science.

Advice for the "Reality-Based" Community

So here is this week's message for the Left: Economics is a science. Willful ignorance or emotional rejection of the well-known precepts of this science is at least as bad as a fundamentalist Christian's willful ignorance of evolution science (for which the Left so often criticizes their opposition).

In fact, economic ignorance is much worse, since most people can come to perfectly valid conclusions about most public policy issues with a flawed knowledge of the origin of the species but no one can with a flawed understanding of economics.

Postscript: In fact, the more I think about it, the more economics and evolution are very similar. Both are sciences that are trying to describe the operation of very complex, bottom-up, self-organizing systems. And, in both cases, there exist many people who refuse to believe such complex and beautiful systems can really operate without top-down control.

[Greekpunk]

Siggy, are you in any way related to the band that dons that moniker?

[Seward]

When it comes to the creationism* v. evolution in the science classroom (vs. say the philosophy classroom) there seem to be at least two issues at play in this conversation:

(1) Should we have public schools at all?

(2) Is juxtaposing these two visions an appropriate way to teach science?

Now, does Palin oppose public schools? I have no idea.

Is juxtaposing these two visions a good way to teach science whether in a public or a private setting? For various reasons I would argue that it isn't.

*I would note that she apparently volunteered the term creationism, so we aren't even using terminology like "intelligent design" here.

[Corey Cagle]

Does it really matter whether Sarah Palin believes in young-earth creationism? She isn't running for Vice Pope, nor is she publishing a paper in a scientific journal.

With one exception, all members of Congress have publicly proclaimed belief in some religion; the cast majority are some denomination of Christianity. If we're going to dismiss every politician who believes in talking snakes, virgin births and zombie messiahs, I think we'll never be satisfied.

Besides, as an atheist, it seems wrong to judge a politician on a non-political issue which I'd much prefer voters not judge me on, were I running for office.

[Corey Cagle]

*cast = vast. Stupid fingers...

[Seward]

Corey Cagle,

Yes, it seems like an appropriate measure of a candidate to know whether they believe in YEC or anything else they happen believe in.

Besides, as an atheist, it seems wrong to judge a politician on a non-political issue...

Religion has never been a non-political issue in this country and never will be.

[Palin is not a creationist]

A Taxachussets website didn't quote her full remarks. Go figure!

Here's what she said:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

Hmm... she doesn't think that the politicians should be the ones making the call about what schools should teach or not? What the heck is she thinking?

The more I know about her, the more I like.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Does it really matter whether Sarah Palin believes in young-earth creationism?"

I would say yes. If a person can be that fucking misinformed on such an issue for ideological reasons, then one should shudder at other areas where this could pop up its head. Young earth creationism goes against not only modern biology, but modern geology as well. A person who claims to know something about a geological issue like oil and also claims to be a young earth creationist is a scary person if you ask me.

My take on evolution as well as global warming is grounded in humility. I don't have a PhD in biology or climatology or what have you and thus I will defer to the consensus of experts on that subject. A contrary general rule would be batshit crazy. Imagine that in medecine or law or geology or economics if you just thought that without years of study and experience you suddenly could see that the consensus arrived at by thousands of practicioners in a given field were "really" wrong or the workings of some "hoax." Expert consensus will be wrong here or there but the arrogance of a non-expert declaring this or that expert consensus wrong (and how nice to suddenly discern the falsity of ones that have implications that bother you ideologically!) is way out there. I mean, do the math, what's more likely, that a diverse group of thousands of highly trained experts in a field are wrong or conspiring to mislead the world or that your untrained and highly ideologically committed self is wrong?

TJIT-I grant that economics is, like biology or geology, a field of its own with its own experts and findings. I would qualify that the social sciences don't seem to have or even usually claim the same amount of reliable findings and generalizations as the hard sciences do. But more to the point, if you actually take a look at economics as a field you will find that the view of classical economics most spouted by libertarians is in fact not the consensus in the field anymore.

[AuH2Oreloaded]

"Mr. Nice Guy | August 30, 2008, 9:07am | #
"Does it really matter whether Sarah Palin believes in young-earth creationism?"

I would say yes. If a person can be that fucking misinformed on such an issue for ideological reasons, then one should shudder at other areas where this could pop up its head. Young earth creationism goes against not only modern biology, but modern geology as well. A person who claims to know something about a geological issue like oil and also claims to be a young earth creationist is a scary person if you ask me."

Err... have you read the comment before yours? She never claimed to be a creationist.

[Anti-Globalism]

"Pro-life" is inherently dysgenic.

[Joachim Arnerholm]

Is "Rev" Jeremiah Wright a creationist?

Ask Barak Milhouse Obama cause I want to know!!

[bigbigslacker]

You can't trust experts. Well, sometimes you can, but you have to find out if they are religious first.

Mr. Nice Guy, and AuHlkjhaldskf, as a heathen I see what yous guys are saying, but...have you ever had surgery? Pretty good odds that guy cutting you apart and playing with yer guts while your napping believes in angels, Jebus, Mohamsandwich, maybe even alien UFOs, slot machine/gambling myths, Feng Shui-type crap, race memory, ghosts. In general, I don't want to know these things - "just wake me up when its over". But, when I meet a science teacher who talks about what he did after church last Sunday, its one of those things that does make me go hmmm.

Bill Clinton believes in Jesus Christ. He believes in a being more powerful than superman. Should that man have had his finger on "the button"?

This thread is over anyway. It was pwned at 8:07 with the link (worth reposting for anyone who missed it):

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"The education section of the Republican Party of Alaska's platform states "We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory." Do you support this position? Why?

A: I support this plank in the Republican Party's platform. I believe society can have healthy debates on scientific theories, so equal representation of creation and evolution shouldn't be an offense."

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/aug/29/palin-issues-2002-alaska-gubernatorial-race/

[Jordan]

First of all who is making anyone go to public schools? They have these things called private schools near where I live, you should check in your local area for them. Kids are allowed to go to them all the time where I live...

Well, the kids who can afford to after having already paid for public schooling.

Oh yes I can, we do it all the time. We call them elections and no one who wants to end public schools ever wins them.

By that token, slavery and segregation enriched us all for quite a long time. So has the War On Drugs.

Second, public schools are a public good enriching us all. You know how some states will spend less money on their school systems and they have a crappy school system and so, well, businesses don't locate there and their economy sucks? Without public education this nation would be like those states.

It's not funding that's the problem. We spend more per-pupil than any other nation on Earth and our schools are absolute shit. Even China has better schools.

Public education provides many people with an education that they would not otherwise get. As an education is the kind of thing that can determine everything else about a person it can be rightly said that if they did not get such educations they would have their life choices severly limited. Therefore they would have less liberty. More choices for more people. If that's statism then give me some statism!

And school choice would still allow these kids to receive an education, without going to schools who cater to the lowest common denominator and who group the A.P. kids with the gangbangers and drug dealers.

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