But It Doesn't Say Whether He Was Born in a Manger!*

Markos Moulitsas gets a copy (a 2007 facsimile, run off by the state of Hawaii) of Barack Obama's birth certificate, which disproves the rumors I mentioned yesterday… or does it?

Yes, it does.

Obama himself probably has a dog-eared yellowing copy in a desk drawer somewhere; this document is what he or someone authorized by him was given by the state out of its records. Barring some vast conspiracy within the Hawaii State Department of Health, there is no reason to think his birth certificate would have any different data.

So says the guy who retired Dan Rather. What say you, citizens of the comment sections at Hot Air?

Enlarge and the text looks like it has been added on top of the green and white background, rather than typed on it as it would have been in 1961.
…
I find it odd that every work is pixelated around it, yet the black box is not.
…
Fathers race "African" (I don't think they used those terms during that time… african is NOT a Legaly defined Race).
…
When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say "Copy" when scanned or copied. This one doesn't have it.
…
Looks like a photo shop. The certificate background around the font is fuzzy.

The comments in there are actually about 55/45 sane/insane, and I like Madison Conservative's admonition: "Guys, if you go down this road, it will collapse miserably. This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except you're in the position of CBS. It's low politics, and it's a powder keg." That doesn't slow down Charles Johnson at LGF (who, credit due, never believed the stupid "whitey tape" hoax), whose thought process went like this:

It looks genuine. But Moulitsas is definitely not a trustworthy source. I need details on how he got this image before I'll completely believe it.

UPDATE: The campaign did give it to Moulitsas for posting; he says so in the comments.

UPDATE: The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: (cue nutball Kos commenter's diary about Israel).

What's next week's rumor going to be? I'm guessing an audio tape will reveal that Obama shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. It will be unclear if this was before or after the Nevada caucus.

*I'm stealing one of my preferred jokes from the HotAir pages.

UPDATE: Ho-kay. Charles Johnson fires back at my "smear attack":

Dave Weigel (who fell for the "whitey tape" hoax, then furiously backpedaled)

Nope. My first (June 2) post on the "whitey" story pointed out how risible it was, and how the stories I'd heard about it made no sense.

There's always been something "off" about this rumor. In the year 2008, when videos of Jeremiah Wright sermons and Mitt Romney whoppers were uploaded to YouTube regularly, and with ease, who was still hoarding video tapes? And the rumor has been twisted and mangled as different people have spread it.

In Johnson's eyes, that means I "fell for it." So you know where he's coming from.

he insinuates I was crazy to doubt Markos Moulitsas, and ignores the updates that make it clear I accept the Obama birth certificate as real

I posted two of his updates and left out only Johnson's blockquote of an argument that convinced him, even further, that the document was real. It was clear in his first update that he thought this. I didn't mean to "insinuate he was crazy to doubt" the Kos-ter in Chief; I just found it amusing that he theorized that Moulitsas committed fraud or was getting "leaks" from Team Obama, before discovering the delivery from Team Obama was above-board and described by Moulitsas in the link. Once he verified that, he moved lickety-split to his usual "Daily Kos is a pit of snakes and bigots and anyone who communicates with Moulitsas is suspect" line.

Weigel uses commenters to bash Hot Air and LGF

I quoted no LGF commenters. In the past I've linked to LGF threads and comments, but I've never attributed them to Johnson. Johnson wants the people who link him to treat him with a different standard than he applies to the BarackObama.com webmasters, which is fine: He's not running for president. Also I credited the majority of Hot Air commenters for not going the tinfoil hat route. (The really funny thing is that the commenters at both sites refuse to believe the "no, it's a real document" explanation offered by the webmasters.)

[he] excuses the sheer insanity posted in a Daily Kos diary by discounting it as a "comment" — which it is not

He quotes me in his own post calling the nutty anti-Israel stuff "a commenter's diary." Not a "comment." Why? I don't refer to blog "diarists" on first reference, because not every blog has them. Daily Kos (unlike LGF or this site) allows members (would that have been a better word than "commenter?") to post one diary a day, and Johnson linked to this thing by "nepos libertas," which was posted one month ago. (The diarist included a poll, in which all but 4 percent of readers called him an anti-Semite or idiot.)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, as Johnson was one of the bloggers who bought the "the Terri Schiavo Senate memo is a fake!" conspiracy theory in 2005. It took him two weeks to call it "the Memogate II scandal that wasn't."

Comments

[Hot Air Moron]

Ha ha, Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961! It must be fake!

[Nigel Watt]

When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say "Copy" when scanned or copied. This one doesn't have it.

Yes, for all of those photocopiers available in Hawaii in 1961.

[No Name Guy]

They really really want another Rathergate, badly. Its kinda sad.

[joshua corning]

SO the three places i have seen this rumor are:

Reason.com

Daily Kos

and some crazy site with flashing text and written in some sort of stream of consciousness wing nut dialect that hints at apocalypse and the truth of 9/11.

When did Weigel descend so far?

[No Name Guy]

Why did you have to link to LGF?

[joe]

The blind squirrel found a nut, and now it thinks it's Super Squirrel.

This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except you're in the position of CBS. Except for there not being any other evidence for the claims made about Obama's birth, while there was a great deal of evidence supporting the claims about Bush's guard service.

When a nurse in a Kenyan hospital does what the former Speaker of the Texas House did in 2004, and states that she delivered Obama, then the situation will be like Rathergate.

[Nigel Watt]

When did Weigel descend so far?

Dude, it's funny. Calm down.

[Guy Montag]

NW,

You beat me to it:

When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say "Copy" when scanned or copied. This one doesn't have it.

I believe that is a relatively new security feature in some documents.

[Episiarch]

Why did you have to link to LGF?

Because Dave thinks it'll be funny to have this thread overrun by LGF maniacs?

[PapayaSF]

Slightly odd that the father is named "Barack Hussein Obama," and his son is "Barack Hussein Obama II". Shouldn't the kid be "Jr." instead of "II"? Not that that's evidence of anything other than odd naming. I suppose you could name your kid "Fred Smith XXII" even if nobody else in your family was ever named Fred.

[Guy Montag]

PapayaSF,

I did the same thing in naming my child because I hate that whole Junior thing.

[TallDave]

Why would anyone care what his middle name was?

What an odd non-scandal about non-damaging rumors that turned out not to be true.

I am curious if they're going to release his medical records, rather than the one-page doctor's note.

[Andrew G.]

It's also fairly obvious that it's a recent official reprint, not an exact copy of the original 1961 document. The "Rev 11/01 LASER" at the bottom sort of gives it away that it's not an original.

Not that it matters since the state says it's an official copy, except to wacky conspiracy theorists.

[TallDave]

Why did you have to link to LGF?

Well, they link Glenn Greenwald here. Charles at least makes some pretense at intellectual honesty.

[Mo]

Wait, LGF is calling another site out for the stuff that it allows people to post on their site? The same LGF which has such batshit crazy commenters that they would call Neil the voice of reason?

[TallDave]

wacky conspiracy theorists.

I expect the wacky conspiracy theorists will now go one to claim there is something on the original that isn't on the reprint. After all, Dan Rather is still insisting those memos are from 1971.

[R C Dean]

Dave, give it a rest. Really. You're scaring me.

I am curious if they're going to release his medical records, rather than the one-page doctor's note.

Me, too. Makes you wonder what he's hiding, doesn't it? 😉

[TallDave]

Mo,

OTOH, LGF isn't being used as a dispersal mechanism by the McCain campaign.

[Mo]

Wait Obama's mother's name is Stanley? That's a boy's name!!!! Obama had two dads!!!

This conspiracy theorying is fun.

[No Name Guy]

Tall Dave, Daily Kos = Red State of the left.

LGF= Democratic Underground of the right.

[TallDave]

Me, too. Makes you wonder what he's hiding, doesn't it? 😉

Probably nothing, it just looks odd next to McCain's thousand-page data dump.

My guess is they just don't want his cigarette smoking being discussed.

[TallDave]

No Name Guy,

Except DKos is run by a guy who said "Screw them" when 6 veterans were burned alive on a bridge in Fallujah.

[No Name Guy]

I can find equally wacky things at Red State, but McCain still links to them (and links to DK as well, oddly).

I still say its way more mainstream than LGF.

[joe]

His middle name is HUSSEIN! His middle name is HUSSEIN!!! Did you hear me? HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!1!!

Hello? Anyone?

hrmph.

*ding*

His middle name is Mohammed! HIS MIDDLE NAME IS MOHAMMED!! HIS...

[Mo]

Except DKos is run by a guy who said "Screw them" when 6 veterans were burned alive on a bridge in Fallujah.

Nice framing. You could also frame it as he said those words regarding 6 mercenaries that left the Army and used taxpayer funded training to make triple their salary for a mercenary outfit. It's all how you frame things.

[joe]

Blackwater mercenaries are "veterans" now?

[No Name]

God, did I just inadvertently send this thread back in time to 2003?

I'd rather stick my head in hot boiling water than re-live the arguments of that era.

Hell, talking about the Clinton impeachment would be better.

[TallDave]

You could also frame it as he said those words regarding 6 mercenaries that left the Army and used taxpayer funded training to make triple their salary for a mercenary outfit. It's all how you frame things.

Oh, well in that case it's OK they died horrible deaths. Screw them!

[Guy Montag]

Mo,

You sound like you are against people using their lifelong acquired skills in persuit of their liveleyhood.

You also appear to be using the word "mercenary" as if it is bad.

Do you suggest some sort of mind erasure when people complete their term in government service and persue other things?

[Art-P.O.G.]

Rev 11/01 LASER

Revised Sep. 2001? Sep. 11 2001? Laser? like the laser that brought down the towers?

[Agent Smith]

Dude, ixnay on the indmay asereray.

[Number 6]

Joe-These Blackwater mercenaries apparently were. I'm not sure that should affect anything either way. Hell, I'm a veteran, and I promise you that has no bearing whatsoever on how valuable my life is.

[Loose Change \'08]

Hmmmm... fire doesn't melt steel... but lasers do!

We're through the looking glass here people.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Wait, I just realized the 11th month is November, not September.

[Mo]

Guy,

I was merely noting that there are many ways to frame a single statement. I simply said the exact same thing as TallDave but framed it in a less flattering light.

I don't think there's anything wrong with mercenaries. However, when you get paid to fight in Iraq and choose that, you take the risks associated with that. Your risks are going to be higher and sympathy reduced when you're not bound by the UCMJ. I do have a problem that they're not bound by the same laws as our troops, who don't have the choice of whether or not they go to Iraq.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I think the certificate was altered so it would say "11" instead of "9".

[Loose Change \'08]

Wait, I just realized the 11th month is November, not September.

That's what the gov't wants you to think.

[Isaac Bartram]

Enlarge and the text looks like it has been added on top of the green and white background, rather than typed on it as it would have been in 1961

Ummm, that's because the text has been printed on top of the green and white background. This is a certification issued in 200X of a birth that occured in 1961 not a copy of the original birth record. That's how agencies that handle these records all over the country do it now.

Around 2001 or so I couldn't find lost the two copies of my birth certificate and assumed they'd been lost.

Thinking that I might need one sometime I sent off to the State of Hawaii for two replacement copies. What I got back was a document exactly like the one in the link. All it did was type the vital information about my birth. And instead of "white" as the race of my parents (as it was on the original) it said "caucasian". So, yes, it's quite possible that they would put "african" for Obama's father's race, while it probably said "negro" on the original.

Later on, I found the "originals". They were photostatic copies of the original record of birth on file in the Territory of Hawaii Department of Vital Statistics issued and hand signed and sealed by some official of the territorial administration in 1948.

That's how things were handled in most states (and Canadian provinces) until the 70s or eighties. The original record of live birth (sometimes filled out by the parents and signed by the doctor) was kept in a filing cabinet in the records office and when someone requested a copy of their birth certificate a clerk got it out and made a photostatic copy with a white signature area which was then signed and sealed to make it "official". Since then storage space has become scarcer and technology has allowed the records to be digitized. Then when someone wanrs a copy it's simply retreived and printed out on some kind of "safety paper" to make it look official.

Honestly, this just buttresses my assertion that all conspiracy theories rely on their believers' fundamental ignorance.

[joe]

Art-P.O.G. | June 12, 2008, 2:56pm | #

Wait, I just realized the 11th month is November, not September.

That's just what they WANT you to think. You have no idea how high this thing goes.

[Guy Montag]

Okay, point taken on the framing issue.

Now, why would you expect people on a State Department contract to be under the UCMJ? Appearance?

[Colin Clout]

TallDave, Mo, etc.,

FYI: whatever one wants to call them, I think there were four of them not six.

[Mo]

That's just what they WANT you to think. You have no idea how high this thing goes.

Shhhh, you don't want to piss off Big Gregorian.

Now, why would you expect people on a State Department contract to be under the UCMJ?

Well, they're under contract to fight in a combat zone secured by the US Military, it's a supremely bad idea for them to be held to a different standard than our troops. One they're not as accountable and to the local population, the one we're trying to win over, they're our representatives. They claim they're not liable under American or Iraqi law, so at the least they should be beholden to our military law when they're doing military operations. What laws do you think they should operate under? I picked UCMJ because it's the most relevant considering the theater and the nature of the work.

[Brandybuck]

This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except you're in the position of CBS.

No they're not. The Bush "memo" was exactly reproducible in 30 seconds using a MS Word with the default settings. On the other hand, some of the claims being made on the conspiracy side would embarass 9/11 Truthers.

[Guy Montag]

Mo,

They were under a State Department contract to provide security for State Department assets.

Granted, the State Department does not handle their contractors as well as the DoD, but you are really mixing things up here. Probably not your fault from the way so much faulty mungled up reporting that has been done in this area.

[Taktix®]

Walker
Jefferson
Herbert Walker
Wilson
Earl
Rudolph
Milhous
Baines
Fitzgerald
David
S.
Delano
Clark
Calvin
Gamaliel
Woodrow
Howard
...
...
Grover
...
Alan
Abram
Birchard
Ulysses
...
...
...
...
...
...
Knox
...
Henry
Van
...
Quincy
...
...
...
...
...

Ok, now every president's middle name is no longer a secret.

Can we stop giving a shit and discuss policy?

Please?

[Bob\'s Your Uncle]

MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO!AAAAAAAHAHHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DannyK]

Kos didn't exactly apologize, but he did later say that "nobody deserves to die" and that he was pissed off about these guys getting so much attention when the soldiers and civilians that died that day were pretty much ignored by the trad media.

[Macker]

Hot Air Moron, indeed. Hawaii was admitted into the Union in 1959.

[Nigel Watt]

I was suspicious, but Harry Truman's middle name really was "S".

[joe]

DannyK,

He also discussed his own experience growing up in El Salvador, and seeing what mercenaries were up to down there in the 70s and 80s.

So, I can cut the guy some slack for going off irresponsibly.

I wonder, how many American soldiers ended up dying in the revenge attacks we launched?

[affenkopf]

"Another Smear Attack at Reason Online"
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30315_Another_Smear_Attack_at_Reason_Online

There's even a variant of "for a magazin called reason" in this lgf post. Great fun.

[Brendan]

> Ok, now every president's middle name is no longer a secret.

Very good.

Tiny quibble: Harry Truman's middle name was simply "S" with no period.

[Fluffy]

Charles Johnson is a fucking pussy who won't open registration to his site because he knows the world would subscribe to tell him that he's a worthless pussy coward.

And the suggestion that Johnson is somehow more credible than Greenwald is an absolute absurdity.

[MattGrudge]

There is a rumor of an intimate tape of Michelle and Obama lying under the covers in bed. She lets out a horrendous fart, and giggles, he giggles, and then she pulls the covers over his head, and he starts to scream,

"Stop it, Michelle, that one was really bad."

She answers back,

"Make me, you little bitch, make me."

[rumormonger]

My cousin's sister's ex-boyfriend's sister says she was an intern in Chicago about 10 years ago and knew Obama. According to those in the know, he's hung like a horse, a good 10 inches at least.

[Fluffy]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30315_Another_Smear_Attack_at_Reason_Online

Wow, this is a very short post to have two blatant lies in it.

First, the liar says that Weigel "fell for the Whitey Tape hoax", when Weigel covered the Whitey Tape hoax to make fun of morons like the average LGF visitor who desperately wanted the hoax to be true.

Then it asserts that somehow a diary at Kos is qualitatively different than a comment at Kos, even though any commenting member who wishes can start a diary at any time, and the distinction between a "comment" and a "diary" is therefore merely one of site layout and not posting authority or "officialness".

I'd say these things at LGF, but because they're fucking pussy cowards, you can't register at their site to comment.

[No Name Guy]

Charles Johnson is indeed a bed wetting shithead.

[Taktix®]

My cousin's sister's ex-boyfriend's...

Wouldn't you're cousin's sister also be your cousin?

Just sayin'

Brendan,

Nice catch. I had assumed it was a conspiracy by the letter "S" to take over control of the country. It sponsors children's programs too...

[Taktix®]

Duh-o!

Your! Not You're!

[Isaac Bartram]

I just went over to look at some of that comment section at Hot Air.

Wow, I guess I've lived a sheltered life. I've never seen that much batshit insanity and ignorance per square inch of written space.

[J. G. Cole]

God, but don't you just love all that good anti-Semitic ranting that you can find over at Kos. Some of those writers over there can really put the folks in Hamas and al Qaeda to shame.

[Kool]

I think you are misinterpreting part of the birth certificate
.
Rev 11/01 LASER is the name of his new pastor/priest/padre/Reverend.

I think he was an American Gladiator. So, you know, its all cool.

Lastly, "zmdavid" over at LGF asks if ...'we now call them "Double Standard Online" instead of "Reason Online"?'

ooooooh, buuuurrrrn! I'm totally hurt, now.

It that comment close enough to one of the Rules of the drinking game? 'cause I need a drink after reading so much idiocy today.

[Jen06]

Hey Fluffy, Considering that there are probably between 25,000 and 30,000 registered commenters on LGF, you must be able to register once in awhile. And for the record, I am not a "fucking pussy coward".

[No Name Guy]

Here we go, the psychos have come out of their echo chamber.

"Thanks", Dave.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Rev 11/01 LASER is the name of his new pastor/priest/padre/Reverend.

And I thought Harry "S" Truman was a crazy name.

[Fluffy]

Jen,

Go to the home page of LGF.

Look in the login section.

Look at the little word next to "Register".

What does it say?

It should just say, "Fucking Pussy Cowards" instead.

If you don't run the site and don't control the registration policy, you may not personally be a fucking pussy coward. It's likely that you are a dumbass, but that's a different subject. If you are involved in running the site and its registration policy, then yes, you are indeed an FPC. Sorry, those are the breaks.

[Warren]

Dave,
Look I don't need to know about every Obama bashing rumor you can find somewhere on the internet. How about you only tell us about the rumors you find credible from here on out?

Thanks
Warren

[Number 6]

Hey,LGFers! Look over there, it's an interracial Muslim Gay Couple burning the flag while standing on the bible and urinating on a picture of Jesus! Go get 'em, folks!

[Jen06]

Hey Fluff! Obviously it says "open" once in awhile or there wouldn't be ANY commentors. I am also not a "dumbass". From what you have written here, I don't think you'd have much to offer the discussion anyway.

[No Name Guy]

Why don't they just leave it open all the time?

[Andrew]

Quick! They've opened registration!

Registration is now open for a limited time; please read all the fine print before commenting, so that Stinky Beaumont doesn't have to just take your account away immediately.

[Fluffy]

Hey Fluff! Obviously it says "open" once in awhile or there wouldn't be ANY commentors.

It obviously said "open" at one time. It hasn't said "open" on any of the intermittent occasions where the site came to my notice for years.

I am also not a "dumbass".

If you approve of any of the content at LGF, you sure are.

Let me guess: you're a lifelong Republican, who strongly supports the President, even though he has betrayed every principle the party ever stood for. Am I close? You're either a dumbass, or you're scum.

From what you have written here, I don't think you'd have much to offer the discussion anyway.

You, on the other hand, have plenty to offer the discussion here. Please stay and be a pinata. Thanks.

[Gadfly]

I am also not a "dumbass".
Prove it.

[Gadfly]

And this time, don't split the infinitive.

[Fluffy]

Wow, they really opened registration.

Damn, that's some pretty good service right there.

[No Name Guy]

30,000 registered commentors, all with the same ridiculous bed-wetter opinions.

[PC]

"No Name Guy | June 12, 2008, 3:59pm | #

Why don't they just leave it open all the time?"

Because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the comments. Keep in mind these are the same kind that believe in the "fight em there and they won't come here" BS.

[No Name Guy]

"because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the comments."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[Fluffy]

OK, I have now registered.

Now I will lay in wait, ready to strike.

Who wants to have a pool on how many posts it takes me to get banned?

[No Name Guy]

I'm going with 1-2 posts. After 3,000 robotic bed-wetters swarm you.

[ChicagoTom]

I am also not a "dumbass". From what you have written here, I don't think you'd have much to offer the discussion anyway.

This is true...
they have no use for your biased "facts" at LGF, Fluffy.

Unless you are gonna offer some unsubstanciated rumor or gin up conspiracy theories, you have nothing to offer their discussions

[Gandalf]

"because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the comments."

It does its job. People who are not on message will find it harder to register. Echo Chamber enhanced.

[PC]

Fluffy | June 12, 2008, 4:12pm | #

As long as you don't go around cursing you can actually stick around for a while. There are a handful of dissenters and you can get away with quite a bit. The way registration policy is designed it keeps dissenters from registering because they don't view it everyday. The inside jokes and groupthink may drive you to curse though.

Redstate has the more draconian banning policy, or at least it had. Does anyone even go there anymore?

[BC]

an audio tape will reveal that Obama shot a man in Reno just to watch him die

...and his real name is Sue.

[Fluffy]

Wow, Charles Johnson himself showed up in that thread to denounce me.

He took time from his busy day of hating Muslims to single me out.

Charles is one of those nancy boys who doesn't just wet the bed when he thinks about Muslims - he also shits his pants and faints on to a couch whenever anyone curses.

[R C Dean]

The inside jokes and groupthink may drive you to curse though.

No shit!

Oh, you meant over at LGF. Never mind.

[Seitz]

Prove it.

Just the facts. The confidential.

[No Name Guy]

I wonder if Chuckie J. lives inside some kind of sealed led bunker with air filtration device and a water purifier, just in case those scary scary Muslims try to kill him.

[Orange Line Special]

Regarding Kos as a CredibleSource, over five years ago he posted a PropagandaPicture from a fringe U.S. website, claiming that it was from "the" AlJazeera. When pointed that out, I was banned by Kos. If he told me the sky was blue, I'd double-check first to see if it's changed.

[Bill]

I'll admit that it's mainly Radley B that I read here but I'm no doubt a loyal Reason reader. Heated comments are nothing new but WTF is up with some of these? Then again, I guess I better shut up, having a differing opinion makes some people apoplectic... by Fluff's standards apparently, since I don't think flagrant flame throwing is beneficial, I'm a f-p-c.

[PC]

"Oh, you meant over at LGF. Never mind."

Actually I was talking about Hotair, I skipped over most of this thread to keep from cursing. LGF, just from intuition is probably much worse.

[Richard M. Johnson]

The 8th President of the US was Van Buren, Martin. There is no record in New York or Hawaii that he was born Martin Van Van Buren.

[TallDave]

LGF is anti-jihadist, NOT anti-Muslim. You'll find more posts supportive of liberal/moderate Muslims there than any other site with anything near its traffic.

Charles is one of few people willing to openly confront radical Muslims, and he's not afraid to be called a racist for it unlike most people who run fleeing from anything that could be deemed "insensitive".

Here's a typical offering:

Textbooks at a private Islamic school in northern Virginia teach students that it is permissible for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts from Islam, according to a federal investigation released Wednesday.

Other passages in the school's textbooks state that "the Jews conspired against Islam and its people" and that Muslims are permitted to take the lives and property of those deemed "polytheists."

[PC]

I was too late to game, looks like they closed registration again.

But back to the Birth Certificate thing, if some of them question the scanned image of Obama's certificate just wait until they see McCain's...papyrus doesn't scan anywhere near as well.

[Seitz]

When pointed that out, I was banned by Kos.

Are you sure it's because you pointed that out, and not because you're simply a gigantic douche? Because I suspect it's the latter.

[Bill]

"Wow, Charles Johnson himself showed up in that thread to denounce me.

He took time from his busy day of hating Muslims to single me out.

Charles is one of those nancy boys who doesn't just wet the bed when he thinks about Muslims - he also shits his pants and faints on to a couch whenever anyone curses."

I don't know Charles from the man on the moon, but if he's such a terrible guy, you ought to be able to point out tons of terrible things he does, as opposed to just ranting. If you have any solid evidence at all that he hates all muslims or that he wets his bed etc etc, I'd love to see it. Somehow I think that probably isn't going to happen though.

[Seitz]

But back to the Birth Certificate thing, if some of them question the scanned image of Obama's certificate just wait until they see McCain's...papyrus doesn't scan anywhere near as well.

It's almost impossible to run a stone tablet through a photocopier.

[No Name Guy]

Sure Dave, and David Duke isn't anti-Jew, hes just anti-Zionist.

[Fluffy]

Oh, poor Bill!

Quick, get him some smelling salts!

Look, Charles Johnson is disturbed because he thinks it's not "classy" to accuse him of being a fucking pussy coward.

But running a site dedicated to hatred of Muslims apparently makes him one of the boni.

And Bill agrees, whimpering a bit over in the corner.

[TallDave]

I don't know Charles from the man on the moon, but if he's such a terrible guy, you ought to be able to point out tons of terrible things he does, as opposed to just ranting. If you have any solid evidence at all that he hates all muslims or that he wets his bed etc etc, I'd love to see it. Somehow I think that probably isn't going to happen though.

Exactly.

[TI]

I've already seen copies floating around that show that the middle names were "Muhammad Hussein" with a religion of Muslim. So believe whatever you will. The copies were in perfect condition as well....didn't look like they were messed with either.

[No Name Guy]

BREAKING! John Quincy Adams used gambling devices in the White House basement! He may have also given a pure American virgin to be one of the Czar's mistresses when he was ambassador to Russia!

Developing...

[Gadfly]

Actually, I hear McCain's birth certificate is signed by God. At that point in creation, there was no one else around to do it.

[TallDave]

But running a site dedicated to hatred of Muslims apparently makes him one of the boni.

Yeah, here he is pouring on the hate.

The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism

These are the fellow human beings we need to support, as they battle the forces of darkness within their own communities: Sign Petition to Punish Religious Leaders who Preach Violence and Justify Terrorism: Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism.

What a jerk.

[No Name Guy]

Hey Dave, David Duke (and the President of Iran) both have held conferences with ultra-Orthodox Jews.

Must not be such a bad guy, right? Certainly not anti-Semitic! Just anti-Zionist! /snark

[capelza]

LGF, the site that if you linked from a site he didn't like, you'd be graced with a screen full of some little animated something or other and "You are an Idiot" repeated over and over in the most annoying sound possible?

Childish to the nth degree. But this thread is a great one to come back to the webs for. I left because I was sick of politics, I see nothing has changed. The bedwetters are still out in force.

[TallDave]

Here's another of many posts defending moderate Muslims:

Why We Rarely Hear from Moderate Muslims

Because this is what happens when they try to do the right thing: Britain's first Muslim MP to stand down after death threats.

"A Labour MP is stepping down after receiving death threats over his role in bringing three racist killers to justice.

Mohammad Sarwar, who became Britain's first Muslim MP in 1997, said he feared the lives of his family were also in jeopardy."

Sounds like Sarwar is just another bedwetter. He should "man up" and ignore all these death threats against his family.

[Fluffy]

You'll find more posts supportive of liberal/moderate Muslims there than any other site with anything near its traffic.

Johnson considers every Muslim association in the United States of any size to be a jihadist group or front group.

He must be using a funny definition of "moderate".

If you have any solid evidence at all that he hates all muslims or that he wets his bed etc etc, I'd love to see it.

http:\\www.littlegreenfootballs.com

[Bill]

*Sigh* Fluff, looks like a serious case of projection from over here - *I'm* not the one who comes unglued because someone dare disagree with me. So I'll take your non-response to indicate that you don't have any evidence whatsoever of anything you accuse the LGF guy of right? But hey, if getting slightly annoyed by some child smacking his plastic spoon off of his high chair is all that it takes for me to 'agree', so be it. Hopefully mommy will hear the noise and tuck you in bed early tonight.

[TallDave]

No Name,

Saying LGF is anti-Muslim is like saying a site dedicated to criticizing the KKK is anti-white.

[Bill]

Wow fluff- that's compelling... a link to his site?

[No Name Guy]

No, its like saying David Duke isn't anti-Jew. Hes just anti-Zionist.

Also, it would be like saying Jared Taylor isn't a racist. Just a race realist.

[Seitz]

I've already seen copies floating around that show that the middle names were "Muhammad Hussein" with a religion of Muslim. So believe whatever you will. The copies were in perfect condition as well....didn't look like they were messed with either.

Right, because birth certificates typically list "religion".

[No Name Guy]

Well, mine doesn't list "Episcopalian" so I would suppose not.

[TallDave]

No Name,

No, that's a terrible analogy. David Duke belonged to the KKK, a white supremacist group.

[No Name Guy]

Dave they're not white supremacists, just white separatists. /snark

You can frame it any way you like.

[TallDave]

Johnson considers every Muslim association in the United States of any size to be a jihadist group or front group.

Well, let's see some examples of instances where he's unfairly called a group extremist.

[TallDave]

Dave they're not white supremacists, just white separatists. /snark

And Johnson is neither.

[No Name Guy]

Actually, I heard Charles Johnson attended a cross burning once.

Prove me wrong!

[TallDave]

Probably the main reason you don't hear a lot of criticism of Johnson himself is that he doesn't do much opinionating; he mostly just collates a lot of reports of Islamic extremism.

I don't read regularly, but today's offering is probably typical. We have a piece critical of white supremacists (ironically David Duke is mentioned), a link to an investigation that tied a U.S. group to the Muslim Brotherhood, some stuff about Obama, a piece critical of a CAIR spokesperson who appears to be trying to restrict criticism like is happening in Canada, another piece on efforts to limit free speech here in the U.S., and a piece critical of Pat Buchanan's magazine for suggesting an Israeli connection to 9/11.

Oh, and this:

GAZA (Reuters) - Abu Hafss is not happy.

A year after Hamas Islamists seized control of the Gaza Strip, Abu Hafss is waiting impatiently to see a sword remove the hand of a thief or a woman stoned to death for adultery.

I think Charles is more libertarian thana lot of people here.

[brotherben]

I'm starting to think the good Reverend Wright is onto something. God damn America. Can any of you athiest bible scholars tell me if our collective desire for bad shit to happen to others is a sin? JFC!

[Fluffy]

Bill,

If I ran a site where I obsessively-compulsively posted about every crime committed by a black person anywhere in the world, and where I had claimed that every major African-American organization was secretly a terrorist group because some member of each group once had lunch with somebody who went to school with a childhood friend of Huey Newton, people might start to think I had some sort of "problem".

I posted a link to his homepage half as a joke, and half to encourage you to get off your ass and browse the site.

*Sigh* Fluff, looks like a serious case of projection from over here - *I'm* not the one who comes unglued because someone dare disagree with me.

What are you talking about? You show up and start whining that the posts are too mean, so I accused you of being a wimp. It's precisely the fact that your poor dear heart can't take a little "apoplexy" that I'm making fun of. I'm not "unglued" by the fact that you disagree with me in the least. I'm just annoyed by the whiny way you showed up to whine about "flaming". Show up in some of the religion threads if you want to see flaming, noob.

And BTW, TallDave, one of the many reasons I think that the folks at LGF are douchebags is the fact that in the space of a couple of hours they can have a post complaining about the erosion of free speech rights, and another post demanding that a private school be shut down for its content.

[Fluffy]

Well, let's see some examples of instances where he's unfairly called a group extremist.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchString=cair

There's his obsession with CAIR for starters.

[joshua corning]

Oh, well in that case it's OK they died horrible deaths. Screw them!

You have to remember people who are contracted to do a job for the US are less then human, while union workers working for the government are special citizens entitled to special rights.

This is how ppl like Kos and Joe think.

[Fluffy]

This is how ppl like Kos and Joe think.

The contractors can quit and go home any time they want.

Our troops have been ordered to be there.

So I would say that I feel bad for our troops, but not particularly bad for the mercenaries, and if the propaganda machine whirls into operation to try to gin up sympathy for dead mercenaries as part of the general campaign to maintain support for the war, I'm not going to play. I find it very easy in such an instance to harden my heart like Pharaoh, because I refuse to be manipulated.

[Fluffy]

And, and BTW TallDave -

If Johnson is only "anti-jihadist", can I assume that means he doesn't have a problem with Fatah? Are they OK in his book?

[joshua corning]

Nigel Watt | June 12, 2008, 2:28pm | #

When did Weigel descend so far?

Dude, it's funny. Calm down.

Weigel going off the reservation is serious business.

[joshua corning]

So I would say that I feel bad for our troops, but not particularly bad for the mercenaries, and if the propaganda machine whirls into operation to try to gin up sympathy for dead mercenaries as part of the general campaign to maintain support for the war, I'm not going to play.

You are a fucking asshole.

and a stupid one at that.

I think this is where libertarians are missing the boat. Ron Paul's message is so different then this it is earth shattering. But here let me put this pile of shit in your face so you can smell it.

Why is your message "fuck them" and not "our government took our money to put them there to be killed"?

[Fluffy]

Hold on a second - are people actually saying that Weigel shouldn't be paying attention to debunking this rumor, because it's been limited only to a few fringe sites? Because that's definitely not true. That hypocritical bastard Jay Severin stroked himself talking about the rumor for about an hour on the radio yesterday. This rumor was all over the place.

Or are you guys criticizing Weigel because he doesn't believe the rumor is true, and has "sunk" to the level of the people who are also debunking the rumor? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Happy Jack]

Quick! They've opened registration!

Where the hell is Mo and Ali when you need them.

I was too late to game, looks like they closed registration again.

Ya snooze, ya looze.

[Fluffy]

Why is your message "fuck them" and not "our government took our money to put them there to be killed"?

Oh, I'm just about as pissed off about the money as anyone could want me to be, Mr. Corning. Believe me. I am more pissed every day about it. Trust me.

But the context in which this question arose was one of media coverage. Kos became annoyed at the huge amount of media coverage the contractor issue generated, and resented the fact that this coverage assumed that all viewers would feel natural sympathy for the noble contractors, and hatred for the Evil Barbaric enemy. He also resented the way casualty math works in the media: 6 dead contractors is a much bigger story than 600 dead Iraqis.

And I have to say I agree. 6 dead US soldiers is rightfully a much bigger story than 600 dead Iraqis. 6 dead contractors is not. Those 6 dead contractors get a share of the general sympathy I have for all the non-US-soldier victims of the war, and since there are about 600,000 dead Iraqis right now that gives them 1/100,000th of the sympathy I have for the other war dead.

[joshua corning]

Or are you guys criticizing Weigel because he doesn't believe the rumor is true, and has "sunk" to the level of the people who are also debunking the rumor? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

The rumor is untrue and the publicity around it is as far as i can tell is generated by Weigel and most importantly does not reflect the heart and soul of the Republican party.

Maybe he is looking for a book deal so he can misinform dems about Republican a'la "Whats wrong with Kansas."

[No Name Guy]

You really think theres nothing wrong with Republicans right now Joshua?

[joshua corning]

Kos became annoyed at the huge amount of media coverage the contractor issue generated,

6 Americans killed working for the US government in a war zone and he is pissed about the coverage?? and his response is "fuck them"??

Yeah Kos is an idiot who does not deserve the time of day.

[Kolohe]

Hold on a second - are people actually saying that Weigel shouldn't be paying attention to debunking this rumor

I have said that if I werre in Weigel's place, I wouldn't be doing it, because, even though it's fun, it would be beneath my and my magazine's dignity.

[joshua corning]

You really think theres nothing wrong with Republicans right now Joshua?

Only just about fucking everything...

But weird rumors dug up from Truther sites?

No.

[No Name Guy]

Alright, we're on the same page then.

Something wrong with them, I think, is that their entire Presidential campaign is beginning to revolve around tearing down their opponent.

Now, every campaign goes negative to some degree, but it seems like thatsxs ALL Republicans are doing this year. Whens the last time Red State (is that mainstream enough?) gave a good reason to elect McCain. Count the number of times they do that vs. posts on Wright, Ayers, his middle name, his wife, Rezko etc etc.

[Sura 109]

TallDave | June 12, 2008, 4:27pm | #
LGF is anti-jihadist, NOT anti-Muslim.

Yeah, and all Muslims are jihadists, isn't that right? You're not fooling anybody.

You'll find more posts supportive of liberal/moderate Muslims there than any other site with anything near its traffic.

Then I'm sure you can quote us some examples.

Charles is one of few people willing to openly confront radical Muslims,

His rank and serial number are? With what unit is he serving? Iraq or Afghanistan?

and he's not afraid to be called a racist for it unlike most people who run fleeing from anything that could be deemed "insensitive".

Yeah, Chucky is a brave, brave man, hiding behind a blog with closed registration and banning people who disagree with him.

[capelza]

It was FOUR Blackwater employees killed at Fallujah.

This is driving nuts. Apparently the crime was horrific enough to use it to blast Kos with, but not serious enough to actually know what happened. Everytime someone says six, it reminds me they really don't now what happened there. Which is kind of disrespectful to the FOUR guys whose dead bodies you are beating Kos over the head with in the first place.

Not that I'm a huge Kos fan, but seriously, at least get it straight.

[joshua corning]

Something wrong with them, I think, is that their entire Presidential campaign is beginning to revolve around tearing down their opponent.

I see nothing wrong with going negative in the slightest.

I have the sinking suspicion that many libertarians feel the same way. If i can't get less government then at least I can get some blood sport. Hell with all this heated debate flying around someone might actually say something crazy like "cut spending".

At the very least we might get a divided get-nothing-done government.

[Fluffy]

6 Americans killed working for the US government in a war zone and he is pissed about the coverage?? and his response is "fuck them"??

Well, as I recall an American girl got killed by a bulldozer protesting in the Occupied Territories, and the LGFers of the world said, "Fuck her, she shouldn't have been there!" The contractors shouldn't have been there.

[Mo]

Quick! They've opened registration!

Where the hell is Mo and Ali when you need them.

Dude, I wouldn't post there if my life depended on it. I'd probably tear out my eyes to end the pain after a week.

FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18. Not because they're evil or anything, but because organized religion isn't my thing.

I see nothing wrong with going negative in the slightest.

There's a difference between going negative and pointless and silly speculation. There's a difference between, "He took bribes and here's the evidence" and "His wife may have said 'whitey' 4 years ago, my friend's cousin's uncle's college roommate has the tape" or "His middle name isn't 'Hussein' it's the more offensive 'Beezulbub'".

[J sub D]

I stop in at LGF almost daily hoping to register. I'm persistent. I have a new identity with E-mail address ready. It'll happen.

[bigbigslacker]

Actually, the American girl (Rachel Cory?) died in a bulldozer accident. Make that "accident". If you lie down in front of a bulldozer, and are stupid enough to not get up when the operator does not see you...that's only sort of an accident.

As I recall, the girl was protesting the destruction of houses that concealed tunnels that were being used to import bombs that would be used to blow up innocent people. And didn't her family try to sue Caterpillar? It may not be right to dance about on her grave, but her actions come pretty close to deserving a Darwin Award.

I recall seeing pictures of her where her outrage is a match for the famous professional angry Muslim. Here it is:
http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/rachel-corrie-2.jpg
I like the expression on some of the kid's faces - like "WTF is with this white broad"

[bigbigslacker]

Damn, I forgot the part about having a point...

[Roger Maltz]

Pathetic political blogger sniping. YAWN. Thanks for all the sweet UPDATEs, Dave.

[Happy Jack]

Dude, I wouldn't post there if my life depended on it. I'd probably tear out my eyes to end the pain after a week.

The pleasure of watching heads explode over there would be worth it to me though.

FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18.

Edward Luttwak says, "Once a Muslim, always a Muslim." There's no quitting, kinda like the Mafia.

[Over50 no alias]

The image has obviously manipulated but that does not imply that the document is not genuine.

In most jurisdictions of which I am aware, when you order a copy of a birth certificate for someone born relatively recently (say after 1900) you do not get a photocopy of the original piece of paper. What you get is a computer generated image printed on a current document form based on information held in a computer database.

The text is not "pixelated" it is antialiased. If an image of a diagonal line is printed on a raster device (such as a laser printer or computer monitor) the finite resolution of the device will cause the line to look jagged. To ameliorate this effect (to some extent) the color or grayscale value in an image can be manipulated to soften the "jaggies". This is called antialiasing.

If you look closely at an enlarged image you see that the letters and black bar are both antialiased. What you don't see is an antialiased background (just as you'd expect). The software that prints the image has prettied up the image by using an antialias process to make the image clearer and easier to read. The pattern on the form is not antialiased since it is printed on some high resolution commmercial device rather than a laser printer. If it looks like the iimage has been overlain on the form, that's because it has been.

You might also notice that 314 pixels from the top of the form, running through the state seal of Hawaii, is a crease. The crease has disrupted the image of the seal (as you can see at high magnificate).

So, to summarize, here's the process: take a modern form from the stack in the Hawaii dept of vital statistics, print the certificate from stored data (antialiasing so it looks good), send it to the requestor, requestor scans it and sends the jpeg off to the web. No fraud just modern info technology process.

[mcgurk]

Reason magazine... don't waste too much bandwidth defending Obama.

It's Obama's job to provide proof of his American citizenship. That's the deal; its been that way for presiential candidates for a little while at least.

And providing Kos a bitmap isn't quite proof. We need an official birth certificate. What the campaign has done is worthless.

Focus on that, fucknut.

[john]

you folks need to differentiate the difference between mercenary and contractor, for real! I know it rings better in the ear but it simply is not accurate. Those contractors were killed pulling security for a convoy delivering goods. They weren't seeking out and engaging the enemy which is something Mercenaries do.

I know it will fall on deaf ears but I had to say it. If your going to hate this war do so but be honest about it. Otherwise your just as bad as those you accuse.

[No Name Guy]

McGurk, I believe in order to file a candidacy for the U.S. Senate (let alone the Presidency) one is required to present proof of U.S. citizenship. So hes done that already. Are you from Little Green Bedwetters?

[Terry Johnson]

"FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18. Not because they're evil or anything, but because organized religion isn't my thing."

Bullshit. If you left islam you're now an apostate which means the death penalty for you in several muslim countries.Still, it's good they're not "evil or anything".

[Terry Johnson]

"McGurk, I believe in order to file a candidacy for the U.S. Senate (let alone the Presidency) one is required to present proof of U.S. citizenship. So hes done that already. Are you from Little Green Bedwetters?"

So had McCain but it didn't stop the New York Slimes from making his citizenship a major news story..one that had to go all the way to the Senate to be resolved. Funny how Democrats always get a pass from the MSM while Republicans are fair game.

[joshua corning]

Well, as I recall an American girl got killed by a bulldozer protesting in the Occupied Territories, and the LGFers of the world said, "Fuck her, she shouldn't have been there!" The contractors shouldn't have been there.

Hey look conservatives are fucked....lets try to be more fucked then they are!!!

[joshua corning]

Hey I should work for the daily Kos as their ad guy.

here is my first attempt at copy:

"The progressive blog working hard to be more fucked then Little Green Footballs."

"Ya we suck, but look how much more LGF sucks."

"Weigel came to our convention and we got him laid."

"Finding weird far right strawmen to tear down for you"

[Mo]

Bullshit. If you left islam you're now an apostate which means the death penalty for you in several muslim countries.

Yeah and my friend that cheated on her husband is supposed to be stoned, according to the Bible, what's your point? Apparently, my apostasy has never been an issue the dozens of times I've traveled to Arab countries before, but I'll watch my back in the future.

[Mo]

So had McCain but it didn't stop the New York Slimes from making his citizenship a major news story..one that had to go all the way to the Senate to be resolved. Funny how Democrats always get a pass from the MSM while Republicans are fair game.

Obama - born in Hawaii
McCain - born in Panama

One of those two places is not a state. I'll give you a hint, the state doesn't have a big ass canal.

[SuprKufr]

If Islam is a religion that:

A) supports slavery
B) supports f*cking 9 year old little girls
C) supports killing non-muslims or forcing non-muslims to accept muslim law
D) supports dismemberment
E) supports freaking the f*ck out when anyone does anything that it's most conservative and fundamentalist preachers dislike the tiniest bit

Then I would say that LGF is anti-Islam. If those things are NOT part of Islam, then LGF is NOT anti-Islam. But it's a big "if", right?

I think A-E (above) suck. Are they part of Islam or are they not? I think that's a valuable discussion to have. To say "LGF says that ALL Muslims are jihadists!" is a tired attempt to avoid that valuable discussion.

Question for joe: confirm the following:

1. the Muslim prophet Muhammad had slaves
2. the Muslim prophet Muhammad is a "perfect model of conduct"

Are either of those untrue? Discuss the ramifications. (Prediction: joe will be a liberal pussy through-and-through. Second prediction: joe will be a liberal pussy by mocking my use of the phrase "liberal pussy" and *still* dodging the question.)

[joe]

Whatever, pinhead. I'm not interested in your threadjack.

Abominable behavior by Johnson. Weigel actually singles him out for taking a reasonable position on this and trying to lead his commenters out of their conspiratorial lunacy, but that's not good enough, because Weigel didn't engage in enough Rah Rah Team Red Kos-bashing. Pathetic - just as pathetic as the wingnut "guests" flooding the comments here.

[Bill]

@Fluff:

'If I ran a site where I obsessively-compulsively posted about every crime committed by a black person anywhere in the world, and where I had claimed that every major African-American organization was secretly a terrorist group because some member of each group once had lunch with somebody who went to school with a childhood friend of Huey Newton, people might start to think I had some sort of "problem".'

So your implication is that LGF does all of that, according to you? Most of the stuff I've ever seen there in the way of 'crimes' almost always involve people getting killed or maimed and it's usually pretty horrendous stuff. Sorry Fluff, that's a lot different than posting 'every crime committed' by...

'I posted a link to his homepage half as a joke, and half to encourage you to get off your ass and browse the site.'

I got it, I just think it was a pathetic response. As with the previous post, every single response you've given me makes tons of accusatory remarks that are nothing more than your opinion stated as though they are facts.

'What are you talking about? You show up and start whining that the posts are too mean, so I accused you of being a wimp.'

-I didn't show up anywhere, I read Reason daily and have for quite a while. You accuse me of being a wimp, which makes sense in a way. From what I've seen in your responses, you have no problem making accusations and negative characterizations of people you know little about. Notice Fluff - I didn't say a single word about any other negative comments in here. I wasn't whining about anything. I just happen to like this site and got annoyed that *your* childish trolling and name calling was lame. And WIMP? I love Internet Tough Guys. Your not a wimp b/c you post anonymously and run your big mouth like your hard - I spoke my mind as I normally do, with full links to who I am and where to find me. Then again, most internet tough guys are punks so it's part for the course.

'It's precisely the fact that your poor dear heart can't take a little "apoplexy" that I'm making fun of.'

My dear heart can take it. This whole thing occupied about 5 minutes of my time yesterday and that was pretty much it for me. Again, it's just sad you can't take people disagreeing with you without getting unglued.

'I'm not "unglued" by the fact that you disagree with me in the least. I'm just annoyed by the whiny way you showed up to whine about "flaming".'

Not unglued? Looks at when you started posting and all the time you spent afterward. But I guess if I was all big and tough like you, and started name calling like a tough guy, I wouldn't be whiny huh? Face it Fluffy, it had nothing to do with the way I said anything, it's what I said. And you sat there jamming your fingers into your keyboard getting all worked up as you did it, because I dared to disagree with the Brave and Intelligent Fluffy. WTF ever

'Show up in some of the religion threads if you want to see flaming, noob.'

--Ouch, oh that hurt. Anonymous internet toughguy called me a noob, what am I to do. And just to be clear, I could give a rats a55 about flames, I just don't like stupid ones. However after reading more of your stuff, i've started to appreciate them - I'll make sure I look for your replies when I'm want someone to laugh at.

[Fluffy]

Bill,

I would take your complaints about my posting style more seriously if you actually contributed around here. But I frankly have no idea who you are, and I know who everybody around here is, because I post a lot.

You can make fun of that if you like, and talk about how I waste time here if you want to. I really don't care. As far as I am concerned, you're just some asshole who wandered here to defend the neocon psychopaths at LGF, and your concern trolling and "I read Reason all the time" posts are really weak.

And by the way, SuprKufr, the Patriarch Abraham also owned slaves. And he raped at least one that we know of. Actually, the Bible indicates that God ordered him to rape his slave. Additionally, when this slave ran away, God sent an angel to be a sort of fugitive slave catcher. So I guess it's hard to know if God would have gotten all busted up about Muhammad owning slaves or not.

[an onni mus]

Its a certification of live birth. Not a birth certificate. It isn't contemporaneous but after the fact. It is a certification that he was born in Hawaii. The actual birth certificate would include more info. THe hospital, doctors name, RELGIOUS PREFERENCE etc.

[joshua corning]

Apparently, my apostasy has never been an issue the dozens of times I've traveled to Arab countries before, but I'll watch my back in the future.

What?!?!

Muslims can be secular and liberals?!?!

Shit man you need to inform the Democrat party cuz they really think that is an impossibility.

[joshua corning]

Whatever, pinhead. I'm not interested in your threadjack.

Abominable behavior by Johnson. Weigel actually singles him out for taking a reasonable position on this and trying to lead his commenters out of their conspiratorial lunacy, but that's not good enough, because Weigel didn't engage in enough Rah Rah Team Red Kos-bashing. Pathetic - just as pathetic as the wingnut "guests" flooding the comments here.

First the thread is dead, so it can't be a threadjack.

Second Weigel is not fucked because he does not bash Kos on this...he is fucked because this is a non-story and anyone with a brain knows that the rumors are bullshit....republicans included.

Third Kos bashing is welcome on any thread.

[Terry Johnson]

"Yeah and my friend that cheated on her husband is supposed to be stoned, according to the Bible, what's your point? "

Yeah....the difference is when was the last time the Christian Church advocated "stoning" ? Cool for you to flit in and out of those Arab countries without watching your back but what if you lived there ? You don't even know what islam is do you ? Hey I tell you what, I'll openly carry a Koran into any US airport and you brandish a Bible in Saudi Arabia....then come back and tell us islam "is not evil or anything".

[Butthead]

This thread sucks. islam sucks. joe sucks. talldave sucks.

[Beavis]

Um, yeah, it sucks. Dammit.

[Butthead]

huh huh: you said "stone"

[Mr. Van Driessen]

Guys, did you hear a word Terry said?

[Butthead]

Uh, yeah, "stone"

[Beavis]

Uh yeah he did.thatwas cool.

[Butthead]

thissucks. im going to a porno site

[Beavis]

yeah, this is goint to be cool. Boingoingoingoingoing!

[Butthead]

hey Beavis, this guy said we could score with, like, a million virgins if we blow some stuff up.

[Beavis]

Whoa, cool! FIRE! Heh heh!FIREFIREFIREIFIRE!
Heh heh, virgins, FIRE, boingoingoingoing!

[Butthead]

Huh huh, I set Anderson's car on fire. It was cool.

[Butthead]

But what sucked was, like, I didn't score

[Thomas E. Anderson II]

Beavis and Butthead,
Hain't yew them two kids that have been..hwhackin' off in my toolshed?

[JAMES]

I could not leave the country with out a official hospital birth Certificate.

Obama is running for the president.

where is his original hospital birth
certificate ????

[Art-P.O.G.]

where is his original hospital birth
certificate ????

[shakes head slowly]