The Friday Political Thread: Ron Paul Matchmaking Edition

The Week in Brief
- I'd missed this news until I spotted a Wall Street Journal story on campaign romances: Ron Paul 2008 Communications Director Jesse Benton is engaged to Valori Pyeatt, Ron Paul's granddaughter. Congratulations to both of them.
- Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama battled across Pennsylvania and met at the most unforgiving debate since South Carolina.
- Barney Frank introduced his medical marijuana bill.
- Vanquished Republican congressman Wayne Gilchrest's campaign manager jumped to work for the Democrat opposing the new GOP candidate, Andy Harris.
- Alan Keyes rejoined the presidential race.

Below the Fold
- Bob Bauer (Obama's legal eagle) smacks John McCain around on campaign finance law.
- Roy Edroso attacks conservative and libertarian bloggers, including a few friends of reason. But I can't say I never laughed.
- Julian Sanchez defends the Jefferson 1.
- Marc Montoni has tough questions for Bob Barr.

This week's Politics 'n' Prog medalist comes from France. Hell, why not?

Comments

[Neil]

All the Allahamba Lemmings should read this article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/132566

[joe]

So, can this douche be banned yet?

[Juan]

No way, joe. Think of the entertainment value he provides. 🙂

[Neil]

Want me to be banned Joe? Are you afraid I might be right??

[Neil]

You should at least wait until the McCain blow-out in November Joe!

[joe]

Well, I'm certainly about to be entertained.

Neil | April 16, 2008, 2:05pm | #

Well Joe, Joe Scarborough said Thursday or Friday wed see full impact. Stories that break over weekends take a while to take hold.

joe | April 16, 2008, 2:13pm | #

You're made your prediction. Here's mine.

Obama is now counter-punching on this. On Friday, April 19, he will be higher in the RCP average both in Pennsylvania vs. Clinton, nationwide vs. Clinton, nationwide vs. McCain, and in Pennsylvania vs. McCain, than he was on Friday, April 12, when the story broke.

PA Dem Primary, April 12: Clinton +6.8
PA Dem Primary, April 19: Clinton +5.6

National Dem Primary, April 12: Obama +6-7 (changed over the day)
National Dem Primary, April 19: Obama + 8.9

PA General Election, April 12: Obama +2.2
PA General Election, April 19: Obama +2.2

National General Election, April 12: Obama +0.2
National General Election, April 19: Obama +0.7

LOL joe, you're deluded joe, this is going to kill him joe.

LOL.

Lawlz.

Lol.

Squeal like a pig, boy.

[joe]

Yeah well you just wait till I get my big brudder.

[Beavis]

Heh. Neil used McCain and blow in the same sentence.

[roversaurus]

Wow, the questions for Bob Barr were really
tough.

If the accusations are true I'd have to re-think
my support for him as the Libertarian.

I'd like the LP to have the name recognition
boost but those were some pretty awful bills
he supported. I am assuming this is Bob Barr's
opposition for the nomination working hard to
destroy him. So there is probably some
dissembling going on.

I do think Bob Barr would make a far better
President than any of the other options.
Is he best for the LP? I guess it depends on
what he will say to the press about No Child Left Behind and the Prescription drug program
and others.

[Reason Foundation\'s Society]

Jesse Benton is engaged to Valori Pyeatt

A quick GIS puts these two neck and neck with Henry Hager and Jenna Bush as the whitest and doughiest political couple of the year.

Congratulations to all the happy couple on their upcoming nuptials!

[SIV]

joe | April 18, 2008, 6:44pm | #
So, can this douche be banned yet?

If they banned you joe, what would you do all day?

[Neil]

Yeah Joe so saying gun owners and God fearing people are bitter didnt hurt him in a Democrat Party primary. Im suprised, but not toooo suprised.

But wait until the general. You think he can win in places like Michigan, New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Virginia with that kind of attitude??

[lunchstealer]

Christ. I think Magma is the only live performance I've walked out on.

And I stayed all the way to the end of the film, Mission to Mars, even after it became clear that the most charismatic character in the film was the little sojourner-rover.

[Neil]

Hey Joe give me the states John Flip-Flop Waffle didnt win but Obama will.

[Sandy]

Yeah, if I'm going to do RIO prog, I do Univers Zero. Chamber music for the apocalypse.

[shrike]

Neil is great - whether he be real or just performance art.

He is a reminder of why we should despise the GOP, the Creationist, anti-Constitution, anti-privacy, big deficit, theocracy that they have become.

Granted, Goldwater would get my vote in a second now - but the GOP has berated those types into seclusion while they escalate the pro-Muslim fascists like Sean "Fucking Douchebag" Hannity. New England and the West Coast are killing off these rednecks.

The GOP needs to go back to "small government" or they have no identity other than Christian Redneck - which Neil brilliantly capsulizes.

Keep Neil around - we all look good next to a fascist theocratic douchebag.

[J sub D]

- Marc Montoni has tough questions for Bob Barr.

I think they're fair as well. Mr. Barr?

[shrike]

Remember, to the GOP, sensible people like Lincoln Chafee are "RINO's" - Republican In Name Only because they don't support continuous war and the death of civil liberties.

I know - 90% here realize that - I am just venting before happy hour drains my fighting spirit for the night.

[Mad Max]

"John Flip-Flop Waffle"

Gosh, Neil, aren't you being kind of tough on your own candidate?

[Neil]

Ok, John Flip-Flop Waffle Purple Band-Aid Kerry.

[Randolph Carter]

The news about Jesse and Valori makes me sad.

SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MINE!!!

[J sub D]

As many of you are aware, I like slamming, arguing with, and belittling joe, our resident progressive (self described). Still, I've got to be honest.

Neil, joe makes you look like a bloomin' idiot. Granted, that is not a task that requires a whole lot of intelligence (see previous paragraph), but joe fucking owns you on these pages. When it comes to embarrassing traits, your monumental ineptness and stupidity displayed in debate is only rivaled by your emerging e-crush on Guy Montag.

Stick around Neil. It's kind of like a special olympics moment whenever you post.

[Mad Max]

Jesse Benton will be able to utter words which have probably never been uttered hitherto in the history of the human race: "I met my wife through libertarian political activism."

[Mad Max]

(No, boinking Ayn Rand doesn't count)

[Neil]

J Sub Guy Montag is one of the wittiest, most intellegent posters on this entire blog (I think one day he will have his own fair and balanced Fox News show where his razor-sharp whit and silver-encrusted keyboard confronts the top issues of our age).

[Sparky]

Alright, Guy, quit posting under the fake handle.

You do a really convincing job with the hackery and the misspellings though; you really get into character and _become_ a halfwit tool.

[Neil]

Sparky, come on, dont you think Montags journal/blog should win some kind of award at least?

Still waiting for Liberal Joe to respond LOL!

[edna]

still trying to figure out what "whit" is. (scritch, scritch)

after the yale abortion lady (alan abel reincarnated), no one should try performance art for a decent interval. it's like following hendrix at a guitar festival.

[Neil]

Come on liberal Joe! Tell me what states Obama would win that your purple band-aid flip flopper boy didnt?

[shrike]

Neil has taken up TallDave's LOL addiction.

Trend or evidence?

Hmmmmm - (need FISA bypass to look into their ISP connection)

Cheney? Hell no.

Need criminal on MY side....

[Neil]

Where do you live shrike? Los Angeles County? New York City? San Francisco? Chicago? Seattle? Washington DC?

I bet its sure as not in the heartland. Same goes double for Sparky.

[Sparky]

I live in Missouri, you dipshit. Is that heartland enough for you? Or do you also consider the Missouri River to be a "coast"?

I don't think I single prediction or guess you've made so far has been anywhere close to true. On behalf of "the heartland," please move, Neil. You're making us all look bad.

[Bingo]

Why would anyone want to live in the heartland???

[shrike]

I live in Atlanta, Neil.

I like a deep-dish dirty martini at my local steakhouse.

I own a .357 magnum S&W model 27.

I agree about the 'war of religious nutcase's".

I like betting on the NFL and chasing poon sometimes.

I am a secular humanist - all your guys hate me.

HELL JEAH!!!!

[Neil]

Yeah, what city Spark? St. Louis? LOL Chicago suburb!!

[Rick Barton]

Ron Paul 2008 Communications Director Jesse Benton is engaged to Valori Pyeatt, Ron Paul's granddaughter. Congratulations to both of them.

Cool-and when two libertarians have kids together, they're usually super geniuses. Seriously, kudos to the whole Paul clan.

[Rick Barton]

shrike:

Remember, to the GOP, sensible people like Lincoln Chafee are "RINO's" - Republican In Name Only because they don't support continuous war and the death of civil liberties.

Opposition to the war and support of civil liberties are his good side. He also supports bigger government and more spending-which is why he and Bush both deserve the RINO label.

I am just venting before happy hour drains my fighting spirit for the night.

Party on!

[Neil]

The undecidedes go for Hillary in Pennsylvania. They just dont want to look racist.

But in the end, Hillary will win in a total complete blowout!!
LOL

[Rick Barton]

But in the end, Hillary will win in a total complete blowout!! LOL

You're happy about that prospect??

[Juan]

In this other board I post on, there is another right wingnut who posts almost exactly like Neil. With all the LOLs included. Eerie....

[Neil]

Yeah rick, dont you want to see some liberal Democrat riots in Denver because the Democrat party (as Mark Steyn says) cant decide which victim/affirmative action/entitalment group to choose?

[Rick Barton]

Juan,

And which other board? Pray tell.

[joe]

J Sub Guy Montag

That would be scary.

Fucking commas, Neil!
,,,,,,

Neil | April 18, 2008, 9:11pm | #

Yeah, what city Spark? St. Louis? LOL Chicago suburb!!

Translation: yeah, well I bet it's the part with black people. LOL!

[Neil]

Joe still what states will Obama win that Kerry didnt huh? Wheres he gonna pick up?

[joe]

It's too early to tell, Neil. These two actually have to get on the court and play a game.

I have no idea if he's going to pick up one or eight states.

[Neil]

How is he differant from Dukekais Gore or Kerry?

[Rick Barton]

Neil,

Yeah, I think that having the Dems rip each other apart here in Denver might well work out to be a plus for the cause of liberty-Especially economic liberty (and thus prosperity) and some free-speech issues as well. Pelosi wants to use the club of a "fairness doctrine" to bludgeon free-speech.

[Neil]

Exactly Rick.

A Democrat Party victory means fewer free speech (fairness doctrines) less civil liberties (second amendment) and tax hikes. And socialized mediene!!

The American people wont stand for it in November, especially since they seem to be nominating the most far-left liberal Senator in America.

[joe]

How is he differant from Dukekais Gore or Kerry?

Charisma. Political instinct. Oratorical skill. Ability to connect with people he meets. He's photogenic. So, more like Bill Clinton.

Except, unlike Bill Clinton, he's running in a climate that is much more favorable to Democrats. Registration, identification, donations, and activism within his party are way up, while the Republican Party's are way down. The Democrats own virtually every issue on the board, including taxes, foreign policy, Iraq, the economy, social security, housing, energy, and the environment - the preceding items, in addition to being separated by commas, are known as "things people give a shit about." You might not recognize them.

And, the one I keep telling you, that keeps going over your head: no Shrums.

A better politician, running in a more favorable climate.

[joe]

Oh, and Neil: on the issue thing-

That's a colon. Stay focused.

-here's a link, because I know you like to research the matter before mouthing off about the opinions of the American public, and not just consulting your unerring gut.

http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm

[Random Member of the Goyim]

socialized mediene!!

In their day, they probably would be considered socialist by todays standards. Although this was more being 'insular' than economically socialist.

It's pretty much not an issue anymore.

[Kolohe]

what states will Obama win that Kerry didnt huh? Wheres he gonna pick up?

Projections from two different sides of the aisle, left and right have give early switches to NV, NM, IA.

As caveated by others, the battle has not been joined as of yet.

[Neu Mejican]

socialized mediene

That's spelled "Medell?n" and the last thing we want is the government in charge of your cocaine supply.

[joe]

socialized mediene!!

In a small, insular community like that, social forms would certainly be emphasized in the upbringing of children.

Wait, what?

[SIV]

Holy Shit!

I agree with Neu about something other than music. I agree that the government should have no role in cocaine markets

[Nephilium]

Neil:

I'll make a prediction. The Democratic nominee will win Ohio. Which Bush won in 2004. The ineptitude and corruption of the Republican party in the state will turn the state.

Oh, and before the questions about where I live. It's in Ohio. I'm pretty sure that it qualifies as the Heartland.

Nephilium, ordained Apathetic Agnostic.

[Neil]

"The Democratic nominee will win Ohio.

Maybe if it was Hillary. Maybe. But Obama cant even win that in a primary, in an general election it would be plain pathetiec!

[Neil]

LOL New Mexico? A state that borders Arizona (McCain's home state?) Yeah sure and I have a bridge Ill sell you in Brooklyn.

Obama cant win New Mexio cause hispanics dont like him.

[Kolohe]

So by you logic there, nat'l geography bee champion, CA should also go for McCain?

[Kolohe]

jesus h christ my typing is getting as bad as yours.

What was that in the drug warrior thread about contagion?

Neil, you don't have tb do you?

[Neil]

The Left Coast vote for McCain?? No way!

But MAYBE Oregon could join the United States and turn red this year. Its a real possibility since the Democrat Party is nominating the most liberal, far-left liberal Senator.

[Neil]

The Electoral Map, after Election Night 2008:

McCain, all the Bush states in 2004 PLUS:!

New Hampshire
Wisconsin
Pennsylvania
Michigan

And MAYBE even Oregon!!

Neil 4/18/2008

[Urkobold™]

Neil:
STILL WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU.
WE NEED TO DISCUSS STRATEGY.
YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED MUCH, BUT I THINK IT'S TIME TO SET SOME NEW GOALS.

[Neil]

Where do you live, Urkobold?

What kind of alcohol do you drink? What care do you drive? Do you believe in the American Flag?

Answer that then Ill think about an email.

[dr_dog]

Pure wankery. But amazingly, the rest of "Udu Wudu" is pretty good.

[BakedPenguin]

dr_dog - I couldn't make it past one minute of that, and hence found your statement hard to believe. But I have to admit, this is not a bad song.

[Urkobold?]

Where do you live, Urkobold?

TAINTSVILLE, FL

What kind of alcohol do you drink?

LYSOL, AEROSOL PREFERABLY.

What care do you drive?

I DRIVE IMMEDIATE YET SUPERFLUOUS CARES, SOMETIMES SPORTS-RELATED, BUT NOT OFTEN.

Do you believe in the American Flag?

I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THE AMERICAN FLAG (IN PERSON!), SO, YES, I BELIEVE IN IT.

[alan]

Do you believe in the American Flag? >/i>

God or flag, Neil? Your choice, and you can't answer both without pissing off the latter (a little thing called idolatry).

[alan]

er, that would be the former not the latter; however, the latter, the Nationalist, do get pissed when
others are not willing to blasphemy in order to show support for the Nationalist misbegotten, Satanic and false concept of 'Patriotism'.

[Prolefeed]

Neil,

Here's some commas, since you appear to have a shortage of them in your (red)neck of the woods:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Use lots of them, in the places Strunk & White would recommend. If you run out, I'll send you some more.

[Prolefeed]

Interesting projected electoral map

New York mariginally for McCain? Texas in play for Obama? WTF?
And the whole Rust Belt up for grabs?

Is this for real? Or is this about as reliable as the clowns who called it HRC vs. Giuliani?

[Bingo]

This election is going to be fun! Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth no matter who wins, and libertarians get to bask in the glow of cynicism.

[P Brooks]

Has Bill called Robert Reich a "Judas" yet?

[E. Debs]

NO Sweatshops!
NO Union busting!

About 10 students from UNC Chapel Hill's SAW - (Student Action with Workers) - which includes several members of Raleigh FIST - as well as members of UNC SDS, SPEAC (Solidarity with Palestine through Education and Action), and USAS - have been occupying the Chancellor's office for 24 hours now - demanding that the University sign on to the DSP - Designated Supplier Program - that would ensure that apparral made with the UNC logo is made by workers free from anti-union intimidation and full rights to organize - - demanding "Stop Union Busting" and "UNC Sweatfree" - the students have committed to staying as long as it takes - and are prepared to continue the occupation through the weekend.

How to Support the Students:

CALL CHANCELLOR MOESER at 919-962-1365 and tell him you support the students who are sitting in at his office and demand that he immediately adopt the DSP!

Hello, my name is ________ and I am a ________ from ______. I was shocked to discover that North Carolina clothes are produced in sweatshops. I urge you to listen to your students, adopt the DSP, and refrain from any kind of disciplinary action. Thank you.

Press Release

[Elemenope]

...libertarians get to bask in the glow of cynicism.

We need an excuse to do that?

[johncjackson 3rd]

Uh, so maybe that explains how Jesse Benton kept his job even though 99.44% of Ron Paul supporters agree he was incompetent?

He can look forward to a lifetime of employment with the various Ron Paul companies. It's probably a sweet gig- the honeypot of Ron Paul's newsletter and perpetual campaign ventures combined with the honeypot of his granddaughter.

[Mad Max]

E. Debs,

How about this version of the message, which (I think) is more likely to speak to the real issues:

Hello, Chancellor Moeser, my name is Mad Max, one of your alumni. I was shocked to read in an article from the student newspaper,

http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2008/04/18/University/Students.Protest.For.Labor-3334635.shtml

about a student "anti-sweatshop" demonstration in the administration building. According to the article,

"Armed with sleeping bags and pizza, the students - and the police officers watching them - were allowed to stay past the building's close."

The article declares that the demonstrators plan to occupy the building until their demands are met - or, as one of the demonstrators put it, "we're going to put our lives on hold until the lives of these workers are respected." (Let's generously assume that they actually *have* lives to put on hold.)

You are quoted in the article as saying: "Those students are probably not going to be arrested. We respect that culture. It's part of our tradition of free speech."

Were you quoted correctly? Did the reporter leave something out? If not, it seems that you are linking the occupation of a University building, after closing hours, as an exercise in free expression.

If this is so, then what are the limits of the principle you are articulating? Would *I* get to spend the night, or several months' worth of nights, sleeping on University property? It would certainly same me some lodging costs. What about the local vagrants? Are they, too, entitled to use University property as lodging? What about students who live in the dorms but who haven't paid their rent? Should they declare themselves to be free-speech champions, and assert the right to sleep in their dorms every night without being arrested or challenged for skipping their rent?

Or is your principle limited to those who trespass on University property as part of some political protest? In that case, all the local vagrants would have to do would be to proclaim that they are "protesting homelessness," and they're fixed up.

I would love to see how this plays out.

[J sub D]

Is this for real? Or is this about as reliable as the clowns who called it HRC vs. Giuliani?

[Neil]

New York for McCain LOL maybe you should add NY to my McCain blowout list.

[J sub D]

If at first you don't succeed ...

Is this for real? Or is this about as reliable as the clowns who called it HRC vs. Giuliani?

Clowns? Dammit, those were seasoned, respected, knowledgeable, inside the beltway, non-partisan, expert observers of the political scene.

They all said so.

[Neil]

Thank God it wasnt that pro-choice gun grabbing Rudy who got the nomination.

[Neil]

J Sub how do you think folks in rural Michigan would respond to a gun-grabber like Obama?

[Mad Max]

"Thank God it wasnt that pro-choice gun grabbing Rudy who got the nomination."

If he had, you'd be posting comments about how Rudy Giuliani is a "tough-on-crime conservative." You'd add that sure, he isn't perfect, but he's better than Abdul Abulbul Amir Husayn al-Mahdi Obamallah.

[Neil]

Mad Max no way if it was Rudy Id be pushing for the Constitution Party. The two in the contest I couldnt vote for under any circumstances were firstly Rudy and secondly Paul.

[Mad Max]

Neil, you're giving moral equivalence a bad name.

[Kolohe]

"Is this for real? Or is this about as reliable as the clowns who called it HRC vs. Giuliani?"

It's for real. electoral-vote.com (left leaning) and electionprojection.com (right-leaning) were the two best sites (IMO) of providing comprehensive tracking to the ebb & flow of the electoral college picture in the 2004 election. Since the right-leaning candidate won, the right leaning site wound up being more 'correct' in his predictions. The left-leaning guy though, gave a pretty honest post game critique of what he got wrong. (IIRC, late breaking polls were just not representative for some reason, and the left leaning guy gave more weight to them than the right leaning guy did - or maybe I have that completely backward.)

The current results, are of course based on a McCain vs Obama / McCain vs Clinton matchup that hasn't actually started yet. It's like trying to pick the Stanley Cup winner, when they're only in the second round of the playoffs.

But, they are a good indication of where the candidates are starting from, plus, both sites have started to converge in their 'pre-season' maps over the last few weeks - so it is not a matter of partisan bias.

[J sub D]

J Sub how do you think folks in rural Michigan would respond to a gun-grabber like Obama?

I hope you aren't under the impression that Michigan is a rural state. It isn't. The last time a Republican presidential candidate took Michigan, the Dems ran Dukakis. Barack Obama is no Michael Dukakis.

[J sub D]

If Hillary steals the Dem nomination, Michigan would be a tossup. With Obama the nominee, the Democrats can spend their money in more competitive states like Ohio. Michigan is a no brainer.

[alan]

Hello, Chancellor Moeser, my name is Mad Max, one of your alumni. I was shocked to read in an article from the student newspaper,

Add me to your letter. In addition to your remarks, it is most likely that political protest of only the leftward bent would be so recognized by Chancellor Moeser as being copacetic with his concept of the freedom of assembly. If you were having a sit-in demanding a salary cap for university officers and also an across the board reduction in public employee jobs what level of tolerance from the Moeser and those cops give your protest?

[Neil]

'Barack Obama is no Michael Dukakis."

A lot of people disagree with you on that.

He will be by the end of this race. Like Dukakis hes got a lot of problems with patriotism.

[alan]

strike out, 'from the' and replace with 'would.'

[Neu Mejican]

Since this week's music sucked soooo badly, I'll take this opportunity to promote my favorite recent music find...

A NM native son...cool shit.

http://cdbaby.com/all/thornema

[J sub D]

Neil there are uncounted thousands ofg people from across the demographic spectrum that are excited about Barack Obama's candidacy. Ther were sixteen excited about the Dukakis bid. Twelve of those were his blood relatives. You may have been too young to remember the Dukakis candidacy. Talk to people who do.

[Neil]

Alot of people were excited about Barry Goldwater and George McGovern howd that turn out?

[J sub D]

NM -

Space-Age Bachelor Pad Music???

Didn't "bachelor pad" die a merciful death in the late '60s?

[J sub D]

Alot of people were excited about Reagan and Clinton. How'd that work out? The difference between these cases is the breadth of the support. I may or may not vote for Obama, but I'd lay money on his beimg the nest POTUS. McCains straight shooting maverick reputation will be a smoking ruin by November.

[Neu Mejican]

JsubD,

Take a listen.

The "Bachelor Pad" is clearly tongue in cheek...the kids in the 90's would have called this "chill" or some shit.

[Neil]

Maybe he can win J sub if he gets enough blacks in Detroit to turn out. Blacks are his strenth but he cant win in the southwest because hispanics dislike him, New Mexico Colorado and Nevada all go for McCain.

[J sub D]

JsubD,

Take a listen.

I will. It has seemed for a long time that the radio is the worst way to find good music. Non music critic recommendations have worked best for me for a long time.

Age and experience? Lack of concern about popularity? Who knows? It just is.

[Neu Mejican]

New Mexico Colorado and Nevada all go for McCain.

Colorado, maybe.
Nevada, don't know.

New Mexico...close split with Obama edging McCain out due to the hard-core Democratic vote and Richardson's campaigning.

McCain will lose in November...

[joe]

Neil stumbles into an interesting point: McCain's credibility with Hispanics, based on his Democratic-ish immigration plan.

The question is, will he be able to keep pushing such a stance, and keep them on board, without alienating the xenophobic wing - probably a near-majority - of his party? Would he be able to keep those people happy and still command a large segment of Hispanics?

The press is certainly going to help him - look at how they soft-pedaled his Confederate flag pander in 2000 - but this isn't some dumbass kulturkampf issue that doesn't mean anything to anyone's lives. At least, not among Hispanics.

What's more, every time Hillary Clinton scores well among a demographic group, it's spun as that group disliking Obama, rather than liking Hillary. I haven't seen anything, other than the fact that Hillary Clinton does well among them, to suggest that Hispanics dislike Barack Obama.

[J sub D]

What's more, every time Hillary Clinton scores well among a demographic group, it's spun as that group disliking Obama, rather than liking Hillary.

joe, does anybody like Hillary?
Support her, admire her, fear her, yes.
But like her?

[Prolefeed]

I think confident predictions that the GOP or Dem candidate will surely win are all wet. Both Obama and McCain have the ability to attract crossover voters, and the electoral map hasn't changed that much from the last two squeaky close elections. It looks like it's going to come down to a dozen or so swing states, mostly in the Rust Belt or Rocky Mountains -- Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire, etc.

Unless HRC comehow steals the nomination with a last minute slur of Obama that swings her a bunch of superdelegates, in which case the Democrats will, once again, have managed to snatch (pun intended) defeat from the jaws of victory.

J sub D -- really, no rural parts of Michigan? Or did you mean that most of the population is packed in the cities, and so the rural parts won't matter much?

[joe]

J sub D,

As it turns out, yes. I'm as shocked as you are, but there is an enormous amount of affection for Hillary Clinton among older women Democrats (like my auties), certain blue-collar women, certain younger women (ie, those who grew up under Clinton and saw her as the most prominent woman political figure in the land, always getting the sharp end of the misogynist stick) and certain Latino communities.

I totally mis-underestimated that, but there are millions and millions of howling, enthusiastic Hillary Clinton lovers in this country.

[J sub D]

Open thread clain!

I found this article in yesterdays NYT intersting.

[J sub D]

J sub D -- really, no rural parts of Michigan? Or did you mean that most of the population is packed in the cities, and so the rural parts won't matter much?

The latter. The numbers are in the cities. The forests up north are spectacular though. Excellent hunting, camping, swimming, etc.

[jacksmith]

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE 🙂

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. 🙁

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. 🙂

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class 🙂

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. 🙂

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

[J sub D]

joe, I've seen the support for Clinton among middle aged women as well. Even some in the black community. I can't fathom it, but it exists.

[J sub D]

jacksmith,

That's a lot of typing to claim that being a wife of somebody equals experience in your spouse's endeavors. The plumber's wife does not have experience in brazing pipes though. Hillary is a 1.x term senator. That is her elected political experience. Argue that experience isn't that important to the presidency and we might have a discussion, but if it's experience in politics you want, John S. McCain is ready to supply it.

[Bingo]

Someone with a nice S2000 had a Hillary sticker. I figured it was a younger professional woman with good taste in autos and bad taste in politicians. As it turns out, it was some crazy old dude with a beard.

Maybe he's a Republican plant?

[Sparky]

jacksmith is basically spamming for Hillary; this exact same post has popped up on more than one thread since Obama's "bitter" comment, and he's multi-posted long, pre-written screeds against Obama before.

He's essentially an auto-poster of Clinton campaign ads. It would be kind of nice to have him banned since he doesn't really participate in discussion, he just copies and pastes ads.

Also, he appears to Be An Idiot! 🙂

[Neil]

McCain will win. Just wait until the Republicans get done with Obama, its going to be brutal what they do to him and hell be crying come November LOL.

Maybe Clinton held back, but the GOP wont.

[Bingo]

Yeah Neil! Go Team Red! Policies be damned, Team Red is winning woooo! Suck on it Blue Team!

[Neil]

"What they (Republicans) will tell you privately is they believe that if Hillary were the Democratic nominee, she could be confident of holding all the states that Kerry won in 2004, and she'd be well positioned to carry Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Nevada, and Arkansas as well. Obama, by contrast, in their judgment, would find it impossible to win either Florida or Ohio. Because of his difficulties with blue-collar whites, he would also be hard-pressed to hold Michigan-turning Virginia, Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico into must-have states. Could Obama carry all four versus McCain, a western senator with environmental cred and an aversion to federal spending? Not bloody likely.

from here http://nymag.com/news/politics/45997/index4.html

[Sparky]

"Maybe Clinton held back...."

Yeah, Hillary, Bill, and their flacks have been models of restraint and even-handedness. From the Jesse Jackson comparison to Robert Johnson's druggie implication comments and Hillary's defense of them to Bill's hissyfit over the Richardson endorsement - nothing but restraint all the way.

Kudos, Neil - another insightful post on your part. And the fact that you can do all this typing while jerking off to your favorite John McCain magazine spread is all the more impressive.

[SxCx]

Magma?! Your cred is skyrocketing, Weigel.

The Flying Luttenbachers do a great cover of this on Infection and Decline.

[joe]

Because of his difficulties with blue-collar whites, he would also be hard-pressed to hold Michigan

Easily carried by both Gore and Kerry, in years less favorable to the Democrats.

[Mad Max]

"Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!"

Are you thinking of Serbia, where Bill C. drove the Serbs out of Kosovo so that the Albanian population can get busy screwing with the Serb minority and driving them into exile? At least Bill promised the Serbs that he wouldn't make Kosovo an independent country. Ha ha, Bill is such a kidder!

". . . Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton."

Being Bill Clinton's right hand is a full-time job, if you know what I mean and I think you do. So Hillary shared the work with other - eg, Monica.

[J sub D]

Being Bill Clinton's right hand is a full-time job, if you know what I mean and I think you do. So Hillary shared the work with other - eg, Monica.

Have y'all noticed that referring to Bill's less flattering traits is derided by Hillary supporters as unfair and sexist? Have you also noticed that any successes from Bill's terms in office are jubilantly pounced on by those same supporters who claim she shares in them by virtue of being first lady or "co-president"? Is it possible my visceral dislike of this woman is clouding my normally keen hypocrisy detector and this is not happening on a regular basis?

[Neil]

Hey Joe in the same article they said John McCain wins HANDILY among both white males and indpendent voters over Obama.

What do you think of that??

Karl Rove also said that twice as many Democrats support McCain as Republicans support Obama.

Still feelin smug liberal?

[Neil]

Lets also not forget: B. Hussein Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate. Hes far, far, far left liberal Democrat.

[Neu Mejican]

Ulan Bator

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3P-GJQZBo6w

Better French prog?

I liked their album Ego: Echo

[Qbryzan]

Since this week's music sucked soooo badly, I'll take this opportunity to promote my favorite recent music find...

A NM native son...cool shit.

http://cdbaby.com/all/thornema

Neu Mejican, thanks for the recommendation - I like their sound!

[Neu Mejican]

French Punk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJx80Q6FZaE

[Neu Mejican]

Qbryzan,

Glad you liked it.

Pass it along.

[Neu Mejican]

Metal Urbain when before they were fat old men..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_HMXbk3g08

[Neu Mejican]

The not safe for work version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJx80Q6FZaE

[Neil]

This is my music video for the week

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tSU-ZUGZ520

[Neil]

Go watch that, elites.

[Neil]

You should watch this too

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VpoudLoc8sY

[joe]

A poll is a snapshot in time, Neil.

Mike Dukakis was up 15 points over George Bush, later than this. Against an opponent that had left his primary fight behind months earlier.

It hasn't even occurred to you that the Republicans' campaign strategy isn't the only thing that's going to happen in election, has it?

Oh, and since you asked, yes, that nice warm feeling of demonstrating beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't know what you're talking about when you hold forth on the state of the presidential race is still with me. Thanks so much for asking.

[joe]

Nice video, Neil. That reminds me - where's bin Laden?

They smuggle him across the border to Syria when the invasion began?

[Neu Mejican]

A song for Neil

I'm just an American boy raised on MTV
And I've seen all those kids in the soda pop ads
But none of 'em looked like me
So I started lookin' around for a light out of the dim
And the first thing I heard that made sense was the word
Of Mohammed, peace be upon him

chorus:
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah
There is no God but God

If my daddy could see me now -- chains around my feet
He don't understand that sometimes a man
Has got to fight for what he believes
And I believe God is great, all praise due to him
And if I should die, I'll rise up to the sky
Just like Jesus, peace be upon him

chorus

We came to fight the Jihad and our hearts were pure and strong
As death filled the air, we all offered up prayers
And prepared for our martyrdom
But Allah had some other plan, some secret not revealed
Now they're draggin' me back with my head in a sack
To the land of the infidel

A shadu la ilaha illa Allah
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah

[Neu Mejican]

Steve Earle, John Walker's Blues, btw.

[Neil]

Nice video, Neil. That reminds me - where's bin Laden?"

II think hes dead personally.

[Neil]

BTW, the lefetist extremists at Moveon.org were OPPOSED to the Afgahnistan War!!

[joe]

Well, no.

But a whole lot of Democrats who supported that war, and took grief from pinheads like yourself in the run-up and aftermath of the Iraq invasion, and pissed off at Hillary Clinton for making that false accusation.

[joe]

II think hes dead personally.

That what your gut tells you?

America needs to know!

[ed]

Yikes.
What a crappy video.
Was that supposed to be a joke?
It's so hard to tell these days.

[Neil]

"
That what your gut tells you?

America needs to know!"

The videos seem fake, I mean if he was alive wouldnt he just like hold up a copy of the latest New York Times to give the finger to the Great Satan?

Yeah Im very happy your pissed off at Clinton because she wouldve been a strong nominee, couldve won in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessseee and Arkansas. you know places Obama has no chance in hell.

[Mad Max]

LOL, what the liberal elitists won't tell you is that President Bush killed Bin Laden with his bare hands but is too modest to claim the credit. But see if the liberal New York Times acknowledges this - they're just too liberal, LOL.

[Neil]

Come on mad max you really dont think Barack Obama who has ties to 60s radicals is a better candidate for them than Hillary Clinton, the only family that was able to defeat Republicans since 1980??

[Neil]

Clinton up +1 nationally Joe in the new Gallup tracking poll.

Obama only up +2 in the Rasumussen tracking poll.

Before he was up much more than that.

And Mark Steyn says theres an "implosion" among white working class voters because of Reverend Wright and "bittergate" in places like Kentucy and West Virginia both in the primary and general election polls LOL.

Still feel smug? Why?

[Kneel]

A conservative commentator makes a claim about recent events favoring Republicans and I lap it up because I'm a brainless partisan hack LOL.

My head's too far up my ass to have any independent thoughts if Mark Steyn says it it must be fact LOL.

Obama was a 60s radical when he was 8 years old and is the most liberal congressman ever and hates America cuz he won't wear a lapel pin I heard it all on Rush Limbaugh so it must be true LOL!

I'm too stupid to have any awareness of the fact that I'm a complete laughingstock LOL!!

[Neil]

Whatever, Mark Steyn (along with Steve Sailer) is one of the most brilliant commnetatars on race and/or politics of our time!

[Neil]

And he does have ties to 60s comsymp radicals the the terrorist Bill Ayers who said on 9/11/01 that he didnt regret setting off bombs on the capitol and pentagon and wish he did more.

Ayers raised money for his state senate race and lives in his neighborhood and is in fact friends with him.

[Guy Montag]

highnumber changes his handle to Neil and the result is you guys talking about me for half the day?

You guys are strange.

[Neil]

< 3 Guy Montag.

Ill take your electoral projections ANY day!

[Neil]

Guy Montag your the most brilliant political/Constitutional mind since James Madison.

[Ayn_Randian]

so Neil is officially a fake?

The scary part is that it wasn't all that obvious.

[Ayn_Randian]

Interestingly, it appears that the possibility of an Obama Presidency is all a Borg plot.

Who knew?

[Neil]

Whatever Any Randian who will you vote for the far far left-liberal Democrat Obama?

[Neil is an inside job?!]

uh, yeah, I knew that all the time. Yep. Can't get anything past me.

[Bingo]

Lol?

[Neil]

Yeah, LOL at his Black Supremacist preacher, how he never explained why he didnt leave the church etc and how it will hurt in in the general.
LOL indeed!!

[TomHynes]

Is "coupling" the word they really wanted to use?

Most campaigns have written rules that prohibit sexual relations between senior staffers and subordinates, and between staffers and members of the traveling press corps, a coupling that could raise questions about objectivity.

[Chris Potter]

If Neil is fake, someone really needs to get a life. His average time between posts is like 5 minutes.

I'll admit that I've trolled under fictitious names before (and I reserve the right to do so in the future), but not with that kind of frequency.

[Chris Potter]

So, any comments on the Chinese govt broadcasting denunciations of Western media "bias" on their state-run TV, saying that the West is just trying to humiliate China again...and then getting a pat on the head from same Western media when their English-language propaganda rag -- which is circulated primarily to Westerners in Chinese hotels -- urges Chinese to stop protesting and boycotting Western businesses in China?

[Guy Montag]

CP,

Maybe not right away. Guessing that the Leftists are still trying to figure out a way to blame the whole thing on the USA, while the Buchananites are trying to tie it to the Saudis and Jews.

[P Brooks]

Have I said, "fuck the pope" yet, today?

[highnumber]

highnumber changes his handle to Neil...

Juh? How did I get pulled into this?

[joe]

Don't worry, highnumber.

It's just Montag.

You know how every Western had the broken down rummy with the beard, who said crazy shit you could half make out?

Now imagine a western with one little kid who thinks that the rummy is a genius.

[Cesar]

I'm I still allowed to say "lol" to joes summation even though that word has been raped around here?

[J sub D]

Instead of lol, an acronym seemingly loved by the mentally deficient, I'm going to start using AEM (Audibly Expressed Mirth).

[Prolefeed]

Alternatively, instead of the now-ruined LOL, how about LATTE (Laugh At Troll Tainting thrEad)

Help me out with the final E, mmm-kay?

[Cesar]

(Laugh At Troll Tainting thrEad)

You said "Taint".

[Bingo]

Laugh At The Troll Everybody!

[Rick Barton]

Neil:

Exactly Rick.

A Democrat Party victory means fewer free speech (fairness doctrines) less civil liberties (second amendment) and tax hikes. And socialized mediene!!

Health care is already artificially more expensive and less accessible cuz of government intervention, including regulation, much of it meant to benefit medical care providers, and some of it meant to benefit medical insurance providers.

What's needed is more free enterprise. What the Dems offer is a mega-dose of the poison! (Hillary's plan is even more coercive than Obama's)

The American people wont stand for it in November, especially since they seem to be nominating the most far-left liberal Senator in America.

Obama's approach to the economy is more government across the board. It's like he thinks that big government has worked in the past. I doubt the inherent unfairness of big government has even dawned on him.

Here are his NTU ratings:

http://tinyurl.com/43s3us

Note that in 2007, only 12 senators voted to spend more money than Obama. It's really freighting to think about Obama being president with the Dems maintaining their present numerical advantages in congress.

But we must also give Obama credit where it's due. He voted against the Iraq war. Had he had his way, we would have avoided one of the worst, if not the worst, tragedies that our government has ever perpetrated. Obama also wisely favors a withdrawal from Iraq. McCain seems to want to maintain the tragic and terribly expensive status quo until "victory" is achieved, whatever that is.

I think that Obama also opposes some of the more obnoxious provisions of the "Patriot" Act

[Cesar]

Rick-

For me the issue this year is the war, the war, the war. I think the most important thing to do is to rebuke the neoconservative foreign policy and its disastrous consequences. I'm still pissed about 2003, about the fact there was never a grown-up conversation about the potential consequences of invading Iraq.

Thats why I'll vote for Obama if where I live becomes a swing state, if not, I'll cast a protest vote for Barr.

I think if Obama moves too far to the left he'll be rebuked in the 2010 midterm elections, similar to what happened to Clinton in 1994.

[Jim Bob]

Curse you, Dave Weigel, for exposing me to Magma.

I can't stop listening to it. I don't think that's good.

Christian Vander can play the hell out of some drums, though, and so can that guy who looks like Travis Junior from Reno 911.

/cry

Oh, and this whole Neil thing is like performance art. I don't believe he's saying things he actually means; it's a Juanita-esque troll.

[Jim Bob]

/fails thread for stating the obvious.

[Rick Barton]

Cesar,

I agree with you. The war must be stopped and the neocon foreign policy must be rejected. But I won't ever vote for Obama and help the Democrat's attack on economic liberty and thus prosperity. I'll vote for Bob Barr and Republicans for state office (Here in Colorado, they tend to be pro-liberty). I'll also work for the election of local GOP candidates for congress if they're sufficiently libertarian which includes being a lot more reasonable about getting out of Iraq than McCain.

Two possible relatively happy endings to this mess might be: 1) McCain wins the election but the Dems in Congress do their constitutional duty and finally force an end to the war by not voting to fund it. 2) Obama wins but the GOP takes back at least one house of congress and stops the socialism and Obama pulls out of Iraq.

[kwais]

So have we figured out who 'Neil' is? Is it a regular being funny?

Is is joe? He does seem to make Joe seem smarter. Honestly if it is joe, I am mildly impressed.

So, yeah, I am in NV, and I think I will be voting for Mr Barr.

I might change my mind depending on who Obama or McCain pick as VP.

Also if Mr. Barr somehow proves not to be truly opposed to the drug war.

Despite my conservative origins, I am still not sure Obama is to be more feared that McCain. Even though Obamas comments on taxes are a little chilling.

[joe]

Rick,

Policies come and go.

The shape of our Republic, whether we remain a Republic, and whether our neo-colonial project hardens into the model for our future foreign policy - those are forever.

I'm not, like Cesar, just about "the war the war the war." I put executive authority, the rule of law, and respect for the Constitution as THE supreme law of the land (even if this respect comes from someone whose interpretation of it differs from mine) right up there as well.

That's why I backed the Dodd early, and that's why I'm backing Obama late.

[joe]

No, kwais, not me.

[Cesar]

Rick--

McCain will give us big government good and hard, plus war. I think we get big government with any of the big three. Probably, McCain will pursue a Democratic domestic agenda (socialized healthcare, higher taxes, more regulation, protectionism) in exchange for a blank check on his foreign policy.

[Rick Barton]

...respect for the Constitution as THE supreme law of the land (even if this respect comes from someone whose interpretation of it differs from mine)

Nicely formulated, joe. I think that if fealty to the intent of the framers is the goal, we're on the right track.

[Rick Barton]

Cesar,

Geez! That's a real nightmare-worst case scenario. Do you ghostwrite for Steven King? But it does seem possible.

Perhaps a way to make it less likely to transpire is to pressure Republicans to separate themselves from McCain on Iraq (The war is an electoral loser.) And also elect more conservative Republicans to congress to fight big government.

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