Quotable

"What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous . . . it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God. Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."

-- Illinois State Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) to Rob Sherman, who was testifying before a committee of the Illinois House. Davis was referring to Sherman's atheism.

Comments

[Timothy]

HOLY SHIT.

[Episiarch]

You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

Massive Chicago corruption?

[Juan]

I would like to hope that a higher power would smite Rep. Davis, but that would imply believing in a higher power, so.... any way to get out of this dilemma?

[drawnasunder]

"You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."

Yeah, so what?

[Mutts]

God, you would think he'd insulted corn or something.

[J sub D]

You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

Apparently the foundation of Illinois doesn't include the First Amendment.

Why are some atheists so radical? Hmmm.

[Jamie Kelly]

If God wanted Sherman out of that seat, he would have miracled it out by now.

[Jamie Kelly]

I would like to hope that a higher power would smite Rep. Davis, but that would imply believing in a higher power, so.... any way to get out of this dilemma?

Max Power.

[Casey Serin]

"God" is a mythological gay man... not that there's anything wrong with that!!

[ClubMedSux]

First, as a Christian I would like to note that Monique Davis does NOT speak for all of us. Hopefully that's understood, but it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots.

Second, for those who are curious, this link shows that Ms. Davis used to serve on the Board of Directors of Chicago's own Trinity United Church of Christ, the very same church once led by Rev. Jeremiah Wright (you may have heard of him) and still frequented by Barack Obama.

[Elemenope]

If God wanted Sherman out of that seat, he would have miracled it out by now.

Nicely done, sir. Or, I mean, sarge.

[javier]

was i the only one expecting there to be a (R) after the representatives name?

[ed]

It's rather ironic that Lincoln was probably an atheist. He was at minimum a skeptic.

[Jamie Kelly]

was i the only one expecting there to be a (R) after the representatives name?

Don't fuck with angry liberal fat black Christian go-gooder self-righteous women.

[Elemenope]

Second, for those who are curious, this link shows that Ms. Davis used to serve on the Board of Directors of Chicago's own Trinity United Church of Christ, the very same church once led by Rev. Jeremiah Wright (you may have heard of him) and still frequented by Barack Obama.

Somehow, I just can't picture Mr. Obama saying something remotely like this. Absent that, I have no idea how this pertains to what an asshat Monique Davis is.

It's kind of like saying "Hamburgers come from Germany. You know what else comes from Germany? Hitler. Like those burgers?"

[Paul]

You know what else comes from Germany? Hitler.

Hitler was Austrian.

[Jay D]

pwned!

[javier]

Hey here is the youtube

[Jamie Kelly]

Hitler was Austrian.

Holy shit. We firebombed the wrong country?
Sorry 'bout that, Dresden. Our bad.

[Reinmoose]

A lot of my family would probably have cheered, or at least nodded in approval.

[Reinmoose]

*sigh*

[Matthew]

Nice try LMNOP.

I don't think ClubMedSux's analogy was entirely appropriate and I don't think BO is as intolerant as this woman BUT they do choose to go to the same church. Not as ridiculous as the Hamburger/Hitler thing. Which is kind of funny.

[Episiarch]

Hitler was Austrian.

You know what else comes from Austria? Arnold. Like those Terminator movies? What about Commando?

[ClubMedSux]

Somehow, I just can't picture Mr. Obama saying something remotely like this. Absent that, I have no idea how this pertains to what an asshat Monique Davis is.

It's kind of like saying "Hamburgers come from Germany. You know what else comes from Germany? Hitler. Like those burgers?"

Geez, Elemenope. I just thought it was interesting, given the amount of press the Wright story has gotten. Defensive a little?

[Michael Pack]

If this idiot ever took time to read what Jesus he'd understand he's the sinner.Not the atheist.

[ed]

was i the only one expecting there to be a (R) after the representatives name?

I don't know, but I was certain she'd be black. It wasn't the name, or even party affiliation. It was the hysterical, ignorant, god-fearing rhetoric that gave her away. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Please note that Rep Monique is neither a Republican nor a Bible Thumping Religous Righty.

Thankee.

[Reinmoose]

Seriously though, if she'd said that garbage to me, I'd have had a hard time keeping my laughter in

[The Wine Commonsewer]

You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

Massive Chicago corruption

Nope:

I think that's how Chicago got started. A bunch of people in New York said, 'Gee, I'm enjoying the crime and the poverty, but it just isn't cold enough. Let's go west

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Oh, the attribution of the foregoing:

Richard Jeni

[John C. Randolph]

it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots.

I'm sure it is. How about dropping that stupid cow a note and explaining to her how wrong she is, from a biblical point of view? Would Jesus shun atheists?

-jcr

[Elemenope]

Geez, Elemenope. I just thought it was interesting, given the amount of press the Wright story has gotten. Defensive a little?

Not really. I personally think that the Wright story has been overplayed; it deserved about as much press as the Hagee story got (i.e. jack and shit). People are not clones of their pastors, nor to they really get much of their ideology from them; for the most part pastors can give people packaged excuses to feel good about what they already believed, but that's about it.

And in what sense is "hey, here's something nasty that is connected in a completely superficial way to a famous person in the news" interesting? I suppose it's interesting on the level that the church is big tent enough to include Obama, Davis, Wright, and Oprah fucking Winfrey.

But that's not news.

p.s. Nice shots everybody on the Hitler from Austria thing. 😉 FWIW, he may have been Austrian-born, but was a German citizen for most of his life, fought in the German army, and was the Chancellor (and later, dictator) of a country called Germany. If that's not "from Germany" I dunno what is.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots.

True enough, but I'll bet you a bottle of wine that if the governor had forked up a million bucks to Planned Parenthood Rob Sherman would have been at the beach....

[John C. Randolph]

Hitler was Austrian.

He was also vegetarian and Catholic.

-jcr

[Episiarch]

If that's not "from Germany" I dunno what is.

Yet somehow I bet the Germans wish they could dump that association.

[Jamie Kelly]

How about dropping that stupid cow a note and explaining to her how wrong she is, from a biblical point of view?

Hmmm... too Jewish.

[ed]

Well, if there is a just god (there isn't but my comment doesn't work without him) Ms. Davis's YouTube celebrity will embarrass her all the way to hell's gate.

[Jamie Kelly]

He was also vegetarian

Sure liked his meat well-done, though.

[ClubMedSux]

And in what sense is "hey, here's something nasty that is connected in a completely superficial way to a famous person in the news" interesting? I suppose it's interesting on the level that the church is big tent enough to include Obama, Davis, Wright, and Oprah fucking Winfrey.

If you'd provide your email address I'd be glad to send you any future comments I'm thinking of posting so you can let me know whether they're interesting or not. In the meantime, I think it's worth pointing out another nutjob coming from Trinity UCC. It's a fucking H&R comment, not the front page of the New York Times.

[Abdul]

So why was an atheist called into testify before the IL legislature anyway? Were they thinking of legislating the ontological proof?

[DJ Voton]

Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris better keep their sorry non-believin' asses out of Illinois, fer sure.

[Jamie Kelly]

So why was an atheist called into testify before the IL legislature anyway?

They just wanted to know why all atheists hate America, rape children and wipe their asses with the Constitution.
So you ask an atheist.

[B]

Hmm...metaGodwin?

[Episiarch]

So, LMNOP, what about this:

"His parents are Jeremiah Wright, Sr., a Baptist minister who pastored Grace Baptist Church in Germantown from 1938 to 1980"

Germantown. Like Germany. You know what was from Germany? Not Hitler, he was from Austria. But Himmler was from Germany. Like that burger now? Have some more knockwurst.

"Make joke--not head of Gestapo at all!"

[PC]

"Would Jesus shun atheists?"

Maybe, maybe not, but wouldn't you have to exist to shun? That seems to be the problem.

[Elemenope]

Were they thinking of legislating the ontological proof?

They'd love to; if anything that actually exists in reality is greater than that same thing as it exists as a conception, then why, you would have the greatest excuse to pass every law you ever wanted to pass ever, now wouldn't you? Wouldn't want to deprive those potential laws of all that greatness, would we? 😉

If you'd provide your email address I'd be glad to send you [blah, blah, blah] I think it's worth pointing out another nutjob coming from Trinity UCC. It's a fucking H&R comment, not the front page of the New York Times.

I wasn't looking to censor you, just pointing out that the thought process you expressed makes you kind of a tool. Since this is a comment board, commenting in response to other comments seems apropos. Cheers.

Germantown. Like Germany. You know what was from Germany? Not Hitler, he was from Austria. But Himmler was from Germany. Like that burger now? Have some more knockwurst.

ROFL!

"I *love* wienerschnitzel."

[ChicagoTom]

Maybe, maybe not, but wouldn't you have to exist to shun? That seems to be the problem.

I don't think it is...

Jesus's existance isn't in dispute. His being a son of God and a deity is where the dispute lies

[Other Matt]

Her Illinois Gen Assembly site if anyone's interested.

Don't fuck with angry liberal fat black Christian go-gooder self-righteous women.

No wonder joe ain't all over this one.

[ChicagoTom]

So why was an atheist called into testify before the IL legislature anyway? Were they thinking of legislating the ontological proof?

Now I am not sure (and the Tribune link doesn't state what the Committee was meeting about) but I believe it may have to do with the Mandatory Moment of Silence for Prayer or Reflection that the Il state Legislature passed last year.

There had been quite a bit of debate as to whether a mandated moment of silence was tantamount to forced prayer in IL public schools. And the legislature was looking at undoing what they did last year by once again making it a voluntary moment of silence if you want one rather than mandating that all students must take 5 minutes in the morning to stay silent and reflect upon something.

[short, fat bastard]

I usually tell these types of people that protestantism is founded in heresy and that they're doing the devil's work. She needs to find a priest and confess her sins.

[MP]

Now I am not sure (and the Tribune link doesn't state what the Committee was meeting about) but I believe it may have to do with the Mandatory Moment of Silence for Prayer or Reflection that the Il state Legislature passed last year.

A blog post I Googled on the subject, which includes the language of said act and confirms that Mr. Sherman is engaged in litigation over it.

As a hard Atheist, this act, even in its original form, hardly registers on my "things to give two shits about" scale. A moment of silence. Big deal. Some Atheists (such as Mr. Sherman) clearly don't have better things to do.

[Jamie Kelly]

No wonder joe ain't all over this one.

Oh, just to be fair and multicultural:
Don't fuck with angry liberal skinny white Catholic do-gooder former-urban-planner self-righteous men named joe.

[mediageek]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?

[Jamie Kelly]

Some Atheists legislators(such as Mr. Sherman Rep. Monique Davis) clearly don't have better things to do than legislate stupid, meaningless laws like "moments of silence."

[Your Good Buddy Johnny Clarke]

I've never understood why the religious folks are so worried about atheists in public office. What are they afraid might happen...an atheist president might gut the Constitution and start wars all over the place?

[J sub D]

Chicago Tom,

Historical proof of Jesus is very much in dispute. I don't really care what the historians eventually reach consensus on, but the dispute is very real.

Herod - Yes
Pontius Pilate - Yes
Jesus of Nazareth - Undetermined

[Other Matt]

Don't fuck with angry liberal skinny white Catholic do-gooder former-urban-planner self-righteous men named joe.

Now THAT one joe would be all over.

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?

I've seen him describe himself.

[Jamie Kelly]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?
Yep.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

PC | April 7, 2008, 4:24pm | #
"Would Jesus shun atheists?"

Maybe, maybe not, but wouldn't you have to exist to shun? That seems to be the problem.

I thought Jesus was a real person?

He had me at when he turned the water into wine. Jesus is the MAN!

[JW]

Doesn't the speaker usually pass out, in spite of all the fluttering fans, and fall into the arms of fellow parishinors at this point?

And then, I believe, James Brown would sing a song.

[JW]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?

joe wears glasses?

[Other Matt]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?
Yep.

Dammit, someone owes me a replacement cup of coffee and a new monitor.

[Jamie Kelly]

And then there's gorgeous me.

[Episiarch]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?

If I recall correctly, joe has described himself as Irish-Italian, quite short (I believe he said "5 foot 6 with work boots on"), and that's it. From joe's relative cluelessness of recent pop culture I'd speculate that he is 40+ years old.

Anybody else remember anything concrete?

[I Just LOOK Like an Islamist S]

"Hopefully that's understood, but it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots."

Now you know how I feel...

[Joe\'s Wife]

"Anybody else remember anything concrete?"

Just that thing about his having only the one ball.

[Episiarch]

And then there's gorgeous me.

You're Claire the Cheerleader's dad from Heroes?

[Jamie Kelly]

Anybody else remember anything concrete?

Just that thing about his having only the one ball.

joe has a concrete ball?

[Jamie Kelly]

You're Claire the Cheerleader's dad from Heroes?

How'd ya guess.

[Episiarch]

"Save the cheerleader, save the world."

[Jamie Kelly]

Fucking my own daughter is just an added perk.

[Episiarch]

So you got my sloppy seconds, then.

[Paul]

If that's not "from Germany" I dunno what is.

Wow, dude, you're totally teh sensitive. My remark about Hitler being from Austria was an attempt to take the wind of your sails in a comical way. Nothing more. Someone needs a nap. He's still from Austria. Just like Mumia is from Africa...

[Joe\'s Wife]

"joe has a concrete ball?"

Not concrete, a high tech composit. Whenever I pleasure him, he makes me call him "Lance".

[Kwix]

First, as a Christian I would like to note that Monique Davis does NOT speak for all of us. Hopefully that's understood, but it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots.

Davis:Christianity AS Hitchens:Atheism

In other words, the loudest asshats of any group are the ones that cry foul from the podium. One would do well to remember this regardless of the group in question.

[stuck in 200]

I've never understood why the religious folks are so worried about atheists in public office. What are they afraid might happen...an atheist president might gut the Constitution and start wars all over the place?

For a certain type of religious folk, I think they're afraid an atheist President might NOT gut the Constitution and start wars all over the place

[stuck in 200]

Herod - Yes
Pontius Pilate - Yes
Jesus of Nazareth - Undetermined

Is there any record of Pilate beyond the mentions related to Jesus? I think their physical existence is about equally well established. The stuff about dreams and divinity is a little murkier, of course.

[JLE]

Reason #42,973 why I live in an absurd world. People still believe dependency on "god(s)" is a healthy and moral thing, but dependency on booze is somehow bad? At least I can SEE my wine.

[ed]

angry liberal skinny white Catholic do-gooder former-urban-planner self-righteous men named joe.

You forgot "short."

[J sub D]

Is there any record of Pilate beyond the mentions related to Jesus? I think their physical existence is about equally well established. The stuff about dreams and divinity is a little murkier, of course.

Pilate was a Roman official. There exists corroborating evidence. Jesus was (mythically?) a minor league rabble rouser who was executed. Lots of folks executed by the Romans are not remembered by history. Jesus, if you discount the Gospels, would be one of those unrecorded executions.

I'm an atheist, but if the existence of a man named Jesus, who was executed by the authorities in Jeruselum back in the day, was historically documented, it wouldn't surprise me greatly. I'm just pointing out that presently it isn't accepted historical fact.

[JW]

You're Claire the Cheerleader's dad from Heroes?

Nah, that'd be our fearless leader, Matt Welch.

[Aresen]

We believe in something.

Kindly produce said something. I'd like to see Him. (Her? It?)

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Ahem! JW, you muscling me? Well, are you? Punk! 🙂

The Wine Commonsewer | March 18, 2008, 6:57pm | #

Has Matt Welch been moonlighting?

We Report. You Decipher.

[blogimi Dei]

To all dickfaces that need athiests to believe in someting: I belive and hope in my species.

The 1st Amendment provides free speech, religion, etc. And the 2nd the right to own some guns.

HOW FUCKING EVER: Do any of those rights insist that I SPEAK, or insist that I assemble, or insist that I own a gun.

Fuck all you lazy ignorant assholes, and yes most of your are religous.

[zoltan]

It doesn't have to do with the Moment of Silence. It has to do with this scandal. A church burned down and the Governor wanted to rebuild it by sending $1 million in taxpayer money. Since he didn't want it to seem like a religious thing, he donated it to the church's private school, which owes the state thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes.

Also "The governor gave a rare and swift pardon to the school's director, a convicted felon; the school registered as a charitable organization for the first time in its 25-year history; and the school filed three years' worth of required state tax documents in one day."

[zoltan]

To clarify, the school is renting space from the church and apparently is not religiously affiliated.

[Elemenope]

Wow, dude, you're totally teh sensitive. My remark about Hitler being from Austria was an attempt to take the wind of your sails in a comical way. Nothing more. Someone needs a nap. He's still from Austria. Just like Mumia is from Africa...

Dude, you totally missed the emoticon smiley...

For future reference -----> 🙂

...means I thought I got pwned, in a funny way. 🙂

[Stevo Darkly]

Have we ever seen a picture of joe?

Yes we have, but it's kind of an old one.

PS: They got his middle initial wrong.

[Bronwyn]

He had me at when he turned the water into wine. Jesus is the MAN!

I'm sorry to have to correct you, TWC, but I believe the correct phraseology is, "Jesus was way cool."

Here's a video to remind you.

[Mad Max]

"He was also vegetarian and Catholic."

Well, baptized in the Church and then abandoned it - persecuted the Church, closed her schools, sought to recruit Catholic boys into the anti-Christian Hitler Youth - otherwise, yes, you're right.

[Ed Elfrink]

Here's a link to the audio. Give it a listen and ask yourself which one is closer to "spewing hate?"

http://media.richarddawkins.net/audio/2008/DAVIS.mp3

[Tonio]

Well, baptized in the Church and then abandoned it - persecuted the Church, closed her schools, sought to recruit Catholic boys into the anti-Christian Hitler Youth - otherwise, yes, you're right.

So, did the Catholic church ever get around to, like, formally excommunicating him? If the answer is "no," then he still counts. Also, don't forget the vatican issued passports to high profile Nazi's to allow them to escape Allied justice. Classy.

[T]

We believe in something.

I believe I'll have another drink.

[Lefty]

"First, as a Christian I would like to note that Monique Davis does NOT speak for all of us. Hopefully that's understood, but it's frustrating when ignorant people like this make the rest of us look like intolerant bigots."

Yeah, that's what moslems say about Osama Bin Laden!

In the mean time:

Lincoln was an atheist!
Rep. Davis is an imbecile!
Christianity is a disease!
Jesus is a pagan sun god!
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com (watch it!).

[Joe\'s fan]

I think this is a current self protrait of Joe.

He's quite Obama-istic, isn't he?