For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Occasional reason contributor Marty Beckerman (read him on Don Imus) makes the extended comparison between George W. Bush and Jean-Luc Picard over at the Huffington Post.
In the wake of 9/11 the Bush Administration detained U.S. citizens indefinitely without charges, eavesdropped on citizens' conversations without warrants, spied on domestic antiwar groups and otherwise subverted the most hallowed tents of the U.S. Constitution. Picard has infinitely more respect for the pillars of Western Civilization. In the TNG episode "The Drumhead," an alien security breach on the Enterprise unleashes a wave of xenophobia and demands for security crackdowns but Picard has none of it, cautioning that "the path between legitimate suspicion and rampant paranoia is very much shorter than we think." He proclaims, "The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." In the episode "Chain of Command," a sadistic Cardassian captures and tortures Picard, stripping and beating him for hours of interrogations; after being driven to the brink of sanity by such barbarism, it's unlikely that Picard would ever allow the same treatment of prisoners in his custody. (Stewart watched recovered interrogation tapes from Amnesty International before performing the disturbing nude scene -- disturbing for its content as well as the mental image of a nude Patrick Stewart.) It's a sad statement that a fictional space-faring atheistic Frenchman in the Twenty-Fourth Century defends the Bill of Rights more vigorously than the man who has sworn upon the Bible to do so.
Last year Tim Cavanaugh argued that the story of Trek was the story of America.
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It's a lot easier to maintain your principles in a science fiction TV series than in the real world. I'll tell you a sad statement: that the Republican Party votes en masse for every violation of the Constitution that the Bush Administration proposes, and that the Democratic Party refuses to lift a finger to stop them.
NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
but seriously fictional characters always have higher standards. it's part of the perks of traditional mainstream fiction (plus they get the girl/guy/cool car)
I got yer Fabrini lexicons RIGHT HERE.
Also: "Chain of Command" included the only worthwhile character in the "TNG" universe: Admiral Jellicoe.
Malcolm Reynolds would kick Picard's ass.
*stands back, watches nerdfight begin*
C'mon, let's have some perspective here.
I passed several editions of roadkill this morning that would be better leaders than 'ol Dubya.
Christ, Neelix would do better.
Malcolm Reynolds would kick Picard's ass.
Of course, as would Kirk. NERRRRD FIGGHHT!
Remember--Picard is a French man with an English accent.
Well, hey, at the last Republican debate, didn't Ron Paul's "love the Constitution" schtick draw chuckles from opponents and boos from the audience? I don't think it would fare all that much better in a Democratic crowd if the constitution were to challenge one of their sacred cows...
And Weigel, let's see some more Trek fan-boy accuracy from you, OK? World is Hollow has squat to do with what Beckerman is talking about. The Omega Glory would be a better choice (that's just off the top of my head, there are others).
Malcolm Reynolds would kick Picard's ass.
He'd be all like, "You wanna meet the real me now?"
And Picard would go, "What?"
And then Mal would totally punch him in the face!
"The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That quote has nothing to with eavesdropping, but does describe the politically correct movement of the left quite nicely.
For the World Is Hollow had a really lame denouement.
I want to hear Ron Paul quote Picard. That would be awesome.
Wasn't Cardassian OJ's lawyer?
"It's a lot easier to maintain your principles in a science fiction TV series than in the real world. I'll tell you a sad statement: that the Republican Party votes en masse for every violation of the Constitution that the Bush Administration proposes, and that the Democratic Party refuses to lift a finger to stop them."
Thank God the Democrats so faithfully adhere to the constitution.
Live Free and Prosper
Half Vulcan Wannabe Warren
World is Hollow has squat to do with what Beckerman is talking about.
Weigel may have been thinking about the Oracle computer on Yonada. That's what I thought about.
Warren - I thought that was the motto of New Hampshire Vulcans.
...otherwise subverted the most hallowed tents...
Hallowed... tenets?
And then Mal would totally punch him in the face!
Nah, Mal just shoots first.
What about that time he hit a man with a closed fist? It was hilarious.
My unorthodox brain processes began parsing this as German. "Halff Fuhlkan Vannabeh... oh, wait..." It took me a good second or two to actually comprehend what I was seeing.
I'm up way too early.
Nah, Mal just shoots first.
A hooker for a first lady and a hot mama of a she-warrior for a veep. Jane, you can run DoD.
How can you not vote for that?
Who was the last American president that was truly loved?
I'd guess George Washington.
It's been downhill ever since.
Nothing new here.
Nah... put Zoe in the DoD, and send Jayne off to be our ambassador to the UN. It'd be like Michael Bolton, only more so.
"Jane, how many weapons are you planning on taking to the Council Chambers? You only got the 2 hands. Are those grenades?"
"That quote has nothing to with eavesdropping, but does describe the politically correct movement of the left quite nicely."
Shall we go into the Imus affair, or banning the n-word in NYC, or many other examples that reveal your full-of-shittedness this morning?
Jayne as the UN Ambassador.... nice!
The mind reels with opportunities for new episodes...
First day at Turtle Bay: "So... where are all the Thai prostitutes?"
OK, I didn't RTFA, but is it now considered useful to compare real life politicians to fictional characters? Will people be impressed if I analyze whether President Bush is as good a sailor as Queequeg, as fast a runner as Achilles, as good a pilot as Luke Skywalker, or cries as much as Aeneas?
Adam Quark kicks Picard's ass with one hand and Malcom Reynolds with the other...and that's without even calling in The Betty's.
Old man nerd fight.
"But is it now considered useful to compare real life politicians to fictional characters?"
Was there ever a time when it wasn't considered useful?
Neu Mejican-
I had to Wikipedia Adam Quark...
I was 9 at the time that came out; how the hell did I miss it?
I remember that episode well. One of my favorites, actually. Oddly, I was just thinking about this comparison the other day.
I wish my life was a non-stop hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes,
Because celluloid heroes never feel any pain
And celluloid heroes never really die.
Ray Davies
And he tossed in a Futurama reference for good measure.
Supporting what LMNOP wrote, and lest anyone question the willingness of most Republicans to support those who would give away Constitutional rights...this from Pew Research on the GOP debate...
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/588/gop-debate
Clearly Ron Paul isn't in step with most republicans on these issues...not that that matters.
tk,
how the hell did I miss it?
I am gonna guess the fact that it only ran for 8 episodes is part of it.
It was a brilliantly show.
It's a lot easier to maintain your principles in a science fiction TV series than in the real world.
That's true, but the stakes are much higher in the real world. If only the average Joe would realize that.
The repeated lesson of Star Trek is that you give your enemy a second chance, a whole bunch of your guys get killed unnecessarily, and then you have to kill the bad guy anyway.
If Roddenbury had actually watched his own product, he'd have learned that you must kill your enemy when you have the chance.
Otherwise dozens of nameless and faceless women and children die on the lower decks when you're hit by a surprise torpedo.
Neu Mejican-
Looks it. I like the Bettys.
Here's one for you: Remember... "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman"?
tk,
Ahhhh Mary.
Funny shit.
""""Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman"?""""
Didn't someone die in a bowl of soup?
"""The repeated lesson of Star Trek is that you give your enemy a second chance, a whole bunch of your guys get killed unnecessarily, and then you have to kill the bad guy anyway.""
I thought the repeated lesson was don't wear the red shirt.
disturbing for its content as well as the mental image of a nude Patrick Stewart
What a dude. Do I have to be the one to point out that Jean-Luc looked pretty rockin' sans uniform? Far better than Kirk in either of his incarnations (Fat Kirk or Less-Fat Kirk).
But is it now considered useful to compare real life politicians to fictional characters?
I've kinda been hoping that Mssrs. Bush, Cheney & Rove ARE fictional characters, that I'll wake up and find it's January 20, 1965 and Barry Goldwater is being sworn in as President.
Do I have to be the one to point out that Jean-Luc looked pretty rockin' sans uniform? Far better than Kirk in either of his incarnations (Fat Kirk or Less-Fat Kirk).
Pretty much, because you are teh gey and most nerds are straight males. However, I must point out that Kirk got far more pussy than Picard. He was the king of green poon.
How do we know that Picard was telling the truth?
Maybe he is a charlatan like all our present politicians and just says what makes him sound honorable, and does the exact opposite under the radar?
Yet...
The Prime Directive was the most hallowed document of Picard's day, and while he attempted to respect it to the best his morality would allow, he wasn't afraid to crap all over it every once in a while.
Still, it puts him ahead of Bush. Complying with the constitution occasionally would be a big improvement for the latter.
There are four lights, Gonzales. FOUR!!!
Actually the "sad statement" is that Dubya's behavior comes as any surprise to anyone.
Anyone who has been actually reading Irving Kristol and the neo-cons for the past twenty years, as well as watched Bush declare his "kinship" with Putin would know right where his philosophy (and Cheney and crew) lays.
Bush has more in common with Mussolini or Franco, or the House of Saud, than he does with your average American.
Turning away from Bin Laden to pursue a doctrine of endless war ala Orwell, is exactly what I expected. And anyone who studies history should have expected the same.
Lord Acton was not a fool when he made his comments about power in reference to Papal infallibility, and infallibility I assert that Neo-cons have long attempted to claim for their candidates.
But what about the most important question, which is being ignored by not only both the left-wing media and the vast right-wing conspiracy, but also libertarian media like Hit & Run?
Which candidate is the most like Hypnotoad?
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
In fairness to Bush, I have seen him tug on the bottom of his jacket when he rises from a chair. So he's trying, folks, he's trying.
Which candidate is the most like Hypnotoad?
ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD
There were Cardassians on Deep Space Nine, where you could also find Quark, who was played by Armin Shimerman, who also appeared in an episode of Seinfeld as a legal "consultant" to Kramer in a case that parodied the "if the glove don't fit, you must acquit" line, which is orginally from the O.J. Simpson trial...
...um...
...who was in Firepower with Eli Wallach, who was in Mystic River with Kevin Bacon.
The Brits think Stewart is a hot geezer - he came in second to Connery in a poll of 'sexiest pensioners' just last year.
Pretty much, because you are teh gey and most nerds are straight males.
They just haven't proven it yet.
Christ, Neelix would do better [than GWB as leader].
Wow. That's hittin' pretty low.
Ah ... a planet of Star Trek nerds. I really must get around to repairing the TARDIS's navigation circuits.
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
That show went downhill after season three.
The Doctor
Any "sf" series that can get run on the CBC is not worth watching.
"Remember--Picard is a French man with an English accent."
what, like some sort of Newfie?
Malcolm Reynolds would kick Picard's ass.
True. But Mal would also agree with Picard about the whole freedom thing.
So, after an initial scuffle, Mal, Picard, and Kirk all team up to defeat...?
😀
They just haven't proven it yet.
Or, "gay until proven straight"--the unwritten male law. Which is why I laugh when I hear one say "I'm comfortable with my sexuality."
The Collective, brought to you by Blue Sun.
""He was the king of green poon.""
Going where no (hu)man has gone before!!
"""Turning away from Bin Laden to pursue a doctrine of endless war ala Orwell, is exactly what I expected. And anyone who studies history should have expected the same.""
I dare add that the re-election of Bush is testimonal to our level of commitment to freedom and liberty, well the lack of.
Er, I think a better comparison would be Bush vs. Captain Peter Taggart of the NSEA Protector.
So, after an initial scuffle, Mal, Picard, and Kirk all team up to defeat...?
I just can't see the three wanting to hang out together. Mal wouldn't take to the Federation's bland, quasi-socialist, we-no-longer-have-use-for-money culture. Kirk would be off to hang out in the space jacuzzi with green-skinned space babes. And Picard would be left standing there alone, being all Shakespearean about it.
From The Last Outpost:
Cap't Mal is Han Solo's juvie delinquent second nephew.
I was thinking more along the lines of uncle's cousin's ex-husband's stepsister's roommate. Which makes them absolutely nothing, just like YOU are about to be.
He was the king of green poon.
yes, but picard was banging a pale redhead and a black woman with no eyebrows at the same time. that takes ambition.
Turning away from Bin Laden to pursue a doctrine of endless war ala Orwell, is exactly what I expected. And anyone who studies history should have expected the same.
Wow, Johnny! You knew Bush was going to plunge us into an immoral war before he actually did it? Why didn't you realize that none of us here have studied history, we are mostly Americans after all, and just tell us BEFORE we went to war? Oh well, better late than never to say, "I knew it all along".