Choose Your Own Goliath
Matthew Sheffield and Noel Sheppard respond to my explanation for Daily Kos's success and right-wing blogs' inability to clone it.
Daily Kos got its start virtually at the same time America was discussing going to war with Iraq in 2002. Irrespective of the poll numbers at the time favoring an invasion, the anti-war crowd is always active, vocal, and easily incited… On the web, Kos filled the gap.
That helps explain why dKos got so popular, but I'd argue again that Moulitsas' willingness to open up the blog and let the readers run it was crucial. He was far more interested in horse race stuff and outsourced the war writing to Steve Gilliard (R.I.P.) and to a lesser extent Billmon. And dKos's insane popularity spike came in and after 2004, by the time critical war coverage was everywhere.
[A]s presidential candidate Howard Dean's anti-war cry began to get noticed, he hired Moulitsas as a technical advisor, and started an Internet fund-raising campaign that was not only far beyond what other candidates were doing, but rather revolutionary for its time. The ancillary benefit for Kos was that it drove traffic to his website comprised largely of Dean supporters opposed to the war.
But that doesn't explain how dKos took over the world. Patrick Ruffini was a Bush '04 consultant and grabbed new and faithful readers once Bush won and he re-launched his blog. But his was an owner-driven and -written blog where the most involvement a reader could have was taking a poll. I doubt Dean fans who went to Kos would have stuck around if his site wasn't so democratized.
Sheffield and Sheppard argue that Kos grew quickly because elected Democrats, being losers for the first four years of the site's existence, also participated in the forums. That's true, but it doesn't seem like it was a huge factor. And then they argue that this is all about focus:
When you compare the main victories achieved by rightish bloggers -- the ouster of Dan Rather, the exposure and resignation of CNN's Eason Jordan, the various fauxtography-related firings, the Scott Thomas Beauchamp affair -- with those of liberal blogs -- booting Trent Lott from his Senate GOP perch, the George Allen macaca "scandal," greater online fund-raising prowess -- the pattern becomes clear: liberal bloggers attack Republicans while conservative and libertarian blogs attack the media establishment.
Kos readers are actually convinced that the media is biased towards Republicans and war, but this is right, they're more focused on electoral politics. The most successful election-focused conservative blog, Daschle v. Thune, was launched on the premise that South Dakota media was biased against Republican candidate John Thune. Most Democratic blogs are launched as a way of coordinating and stoking grassroots support, not attacking the media. This might have more to do with psychology than with the reality of media political alignment. Liberals believe they can bypass the press to elect their candidates; conservatives believe that they need to "fix" the press before their candidates will get a fair shot.
I don't think I've made this point before: the dKos style forums, which are much like the Slashdot or Plastic.com forums, are more fun than old-style threads. Anonymous commenters get to rate each other's work, get into side debates that don't derail the main thread, and if they want to they can become stars. The blog has "fellows" whose work gets to go at to the front of the main page, and they got their start just posting comments on the site. The fun factor and the possibility of fame (and internet fame is increasingly similar to real fame) are huge assets, more important to dKos's success than any external political factors.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
"Sheffield and Sheppard argue that Kos grew quickly because elected Democrats, being losers for the first four years of the site's existence, also participated in the forums."
The key word is participated. Out of work Republicans would have been hired on to serve as advisor or policy analyst or something. The Sh and Sh argument also fails because the anti-war crowd is still just as rabid, but a top-down format like Air America isn't a success. There are too many unexplained details for their arguments to be dispositive.
Liberals believe they can bypass the press to elect their candidates; conservatives believe that they need to "fix" the press before their candidates will get a fair shot.
As evidence, see Fox News, talk radio, etc...
Liberals believe they can bypass the press to elect their candidates; conservatives believe that they need to "fix" the press before their candidates will get a fair shot.
Also, I think conservatives are more interested in the culture war and loathing liberal/hippie/elitist/Anti-Christians and that Republican politics is only one part of this. Dan Rather is a much bigger scalp for them than some senator.
The authors' quote from Glenn Reynolds is pretty revealing:
People on the right think their political machine works, but that the media is out to get them. Hence rightish blogging is more about punditry and reporting, and they've succeeded--note the paucity of lefty bloggers embedding in Iraq, while the number on the right is extensive enough that I can no longer name them all. People on the left, on the other hand, know the media is basically on their side, but feel that their political machine stinks, so they've focused on building a new one. And they've succeeded, too.
If Reynolds thinks Kos-style Netroots liberals "know" that "the media is basically on their side," he needs to spend a little more time paying attention to what actual liberals actually write, say, and think.
Kos also has the benefit of the 'rich becoming richer'. Often it is easier to go from one million visitors to two millions than it is to go from 10k to 20k...
Of course that wouldn't work without a website that people like to go to - and on those points I think that David is right.
Conservative bloggers may attack media figures more and politicians less so (though I'd say it's debatable), but conservative media (talk radio and FOX, for example) most certainly DO go after politicians, every bit as voraciously as any liberal blogger. It's conservative media's primary function, in fact.
Sheffield and Sheppard's argument is just more conservative victimhood. But I like the scare quotes around Allen's "scandal".
I guess the question is: If you like Kos' model so much, why isn't reason using a similar commenting system?
Because he's not the only person who works here?
It's always kind of tricky to figure out why a handful of things come from out of nowhere to become very popular while millions of others do not. (See Harry Potter as another example) I tend to agree with DW that the DailyKos model of allowing many bloggers a chance to contribute helped quite a bit. Some of it was just that at the time Kos was launched, liberals were looking for something to call their own when it seemed that the media, government, and popular opinion was against them.
There are a lot of rich and upper middle class aging white left overs from the 1960s and their jock sniffing young wannabes who want a voice on the internet. Kos found a niche and filled it. It is really that simple. Why isn't there a conservative KOS? Because conservative gadfly types tend to be more middle class and less internet savy and more drawn to talk radio. In that sense, there is a conservative KOS, Rush Limbaugh. Those two really are two sides of the same coin, just one uses the internet and appeals to people living in Cambridge who shop at Whole Foods and the other appeals to people living in Topeka who shop at Wall Mart. But make no mistake, they are both media entities and self promoters and intellectual lightweights. I don't quite understand why anyone finds it so remarkable that like minded people of any stripe like to sit to communicate with each other and feel like their voice is being heard.
The Sh and Sh argument also fails because the anti-war crowd is still just as rabid, but a top-down format like Air America isn't a success.
I'll go out on a limb and contend that close to all media revolutions/innovations are bottom up vice top down driven.
That helps explain why dKos got so popular, but I'd argue again that Moulitsas' willingness to open up the blog and let the readers run it was crucial.
There was a certain willingness, I agree, but also that kind of heirarchy was built-in to the Web toolkit he used for his site. It was the same software that runs kuro5hin.org, and kuro5hin's programmer, Rusty Foster, was involved with dKos from a very early point.
You mentioned Slashdot. Well, Scoop (the Web toolkit) was programmed in response to Slashcode, which Rusty felt wasn't community-oriented enough. Rather than editors as gatekeepers, the site's community acted in concert. Scoop was a proto-wiki in a sense.
I don't know what any of you are talking about.
Every explanation of the Left/Right blog disparity I've read is wrong -- including yours, Weigel.
The real answer has to do with the basic market ideology of the Right: Anything worth doing is worth doing for money, and since being a blog "diarist" pays zip (about the same pay rate as being a commenter at Hit & Run), your average Republican figures, "Why should I waste my time? I sent my check to the RNC. Why don't they hire people to do that stuff?"
Think about this: Could the Wall Street Journal convince 50,000 people to show up in LaFayette Park and protest against a minimum-wage increase? No, because WSJ readers are too busy earning a living to spend time marching around, holding posters and shouting slogans.
That same principle is the essence of the difference between the Left and Right on the 'sphere. The best bloggers on the Right aren't stereotypical "grassroots citizen-journalist" slobs sitting around unshaven in their pajamas, they're highly-educated professionals who get paid to blog. You know, like ... Dave Weigel.
I could explain it all but, as I tried to tell Rod Dreher, I write for money.
I think one thing about the right blogosphere is that it tends to lean heavily towards over-moderation of the few participatory elements it actually introduces into its content.
I guess that speaks to the "ownership model" stuff you've been talking about. I think it also speaks to the fact that a lot of bloggers on the conventional right are chickenshit cowards.
The guys at LGF and at Freerepublic are exhibits A and B. LGF is so afraid of participation that might confront their message that they have blocked registration to their site for eons. Freerepublic periodically purges people, not even for not being on the right, but for not supporting the correct mainstream Republican candidate. This is not the way to position your blog for explosive growth. If the goal of the right blogosphere is to produce a right-wing Kos, it will never happen as long as touchy little bitches are throttling the growth of their own blogs.
Mr. McCain,
Apparently, you've never heard of Beureaucrash, which is a right leaning group of protesters. The NY Times couldn't mobilize their readers any more than the WSJ could. The whole righties work for a living and lefties are unemployed losers is false (not to mention idiotic). Hell, look at the comment section of right and libertarian blogs (those that allow it, at least). At Kos, those commenters would be more involved and determine more content. It's the whole participatory media.
if the right is so market oriented, why are they such a gang of little statist pigfuckers? maybe "money oriented" which is not the same thing.
i think that's a good explanation of the mythology of left/right separations, but when it comes down to it the lack of participation is everything. over-moderation kills any interest people have
"if the right is so market oriented, why are they such a gang of little statist pigfuckers?"
Because there is an abundant supply of pig anuses, leading to lower prices and widespread interest.
If you remove the phoney anti-elitism from John's post, he's got it about right.
Conservatives are drawn to media where the big men tell them what to think, and liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic.
Robert Stacy McCain,
All of those wankers proclaiming that their warblogs are another front in the War on Terror are doing it for money?
Are you sure about that?
Because there is an abundant supply of pig anuses, leading to lower prices and widespread interest.
hmm that's a good point.
and by fucking pigs today, conservatives preserve a future where porcine anuses are held as private property and a valuable, trade-enabled commodity.
Conservatives are drawn to media where the big men tell them what to think, and liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic.
ha! good one!
This post begs the question: why doesn't Hit and Run allow user registration and more commenting features?
Conservatives are drawn to media where the big men tell them what to think, and liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic.
TEAM RED TEAM BLUE GO TEAM GO (sorry to steal your deal dhex)
Yes, joe. The left are paragons of virtue. It's not like they are statist controlling assholes just like the right.
Um, just a head's up, fellas - noting that a statement makes one or another party look better isn't actually a refutation of that statement.
Sometimes - and I know this is difficult for people like Ralph Nader, David Broder, or your typical libertarian to hear - one party actually is superior to another on a certain question.
This post begs the question: why doesn't Hit and Run allow user registration and more commenting features?
well this thread probably answers it as well.
to be fair, as awesome as i am - and i learned from the best, THEE URKOBOLD - i wouldn't want me shitting up reason either.
besides there is a fair amount of back and forth here with writers that influences blog content as well as gives the staff here a chance to pimp them archives as much as possible.
Believe me I have no desire to get into a mind-numbing argument with joe
"Conservatives are drawn to media where the big men tell them what to think, and liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic."
But really, is it in your DNA or are you psychologically unable to stop arguing with the conservative in your head?
"This post begs the question: why doesn't Hit and Run allow user registration and more commenting features?"
No. This post raises the question. Begging the question is totally different.
User registration sucks, drives down participation and gums up the works. Unless there's a libel problem here, I don't see a need for it. People can, and do, link to their own blogs and blather sites. What are the good features at Kos that are missing here?
"Conservatives are drawn to media where the big men tell them what to think, and liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic."
I, for one, wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I wouldn't have phrased it in such an incendiary manner, and I would have perhaps noted that liberal "back and forth" can be just as obnoxious as AM radio hosts. I would also note that there is much more dissent amongst liberals than there is for conservatives.
bendover,
Like Rush Limbaugh or a political blog without a comments section, I don't have to answer you.
Like Rush Limbaugh or a political blog without a comments section, I don't have to answer you.
But on DKos you do? Come on, joe, you usually make more sense than this. The endless partisanship is damned tiring.
Thank you joe.....thank you.
liberals are liberals are drawn to media where there is a back and forth dynamic.
I don't know. You seem like a liberal and yet you also seem pretty picky about when you will do back and forth. On the left versus right partisan stuff you will (but then so will John). On disputes that do not map well to that familiar spectrum you always seem to get real quiet, joe.
Dave W. - sometimes the "back and forth" of these debates are simply the choir singing the same tune in round.
row, row, row your boat....
Episiarch,
Yes, your partisanship is tiring.
Have you ever bothered to, you know, go to DailyKos, see how it works, and how it is different from conservative web sites?
Or is the fact that they are liberals all you need to know?
Dave W,
Discussions that generate conflict are always going to create more interest. That's hardly something that's unique to me. Look at the teevee news.
Let me translate Joe into something less inflammatory:
Liberals REALLY like to argue. Sites like Dkos allow the arguments to happen, but with just enough community moderation to prevent FreeRepublic/DU cesspits (and community prevents it from feeling authoritarian. The number of out-right bannings on Dkos are suprisingly low).
Liberals are famous for liking to argue amongst themselves. There's jokes going back 50 years about it..."I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat" and "circular firing squad" and all that.
DKos is a very, very, very large and well-populated site that has attracted a lot of people who like to argue. And it's big enough that there's generally someone just as knowledgeable, if not more so, on whatever topic you want to argue about that you can get a good discussion/argument going.
Conservatives, on the other hand, don't seem to be as predisposed to massive, freewheeling argumentation. I suppose mostly because they tend to value party discipline a bit more, and that filters down to their supporters.
Another blogger noted that Democrats tend to nominate and elect wonks of one type or another, and Republicans don't. They seem more apt to vote for people that "reflect their values" or "are the right sort of people". A different filter for what makes a good leader.
Yeah, Joe there is so much dissent going on at KOS. Why don't you go over there and argue for the war or say that perhaps impeachment is a bad idea or that perhaps socialized medicine isn't such a good thing. I am sure you are going to get lots of support over there. What will happen is that your account and IP address will be banned and that will be the end of that. KOS is extremely insular compared to say Hit and Run or Ann Althouse where pretty much anyone can post a comment at any time. To say that group of moonbats is somehow open to dissent is beyond credulity.
Further, Rush Limbaugh never drove public opinion in his life. You have it backwards. He is popular because he tells people things they agree with and what they want to hear, just like KOS is popular because he reaffirms liberals' prejudices. It is not like no one had ever thought of or supported the things Limbaugh says and he all of the sudden through magic I guess started getting people to think things they wouldn't have otherwise thought. It is that people who held a certain set of beliefs finally found someone in Limbaugh with whom they agreed. Look at it this way, if Rush Limbaugh all of the sudden morphed into Michael Moore and spouted spouting communist nonsense, according to your theory all of his listeners would agree with him since conservatives in your world are apparently so easily lead. Of course, in the real world, if Limbaugh started doing that his listenership would fall to nothing and he would be off the air within a month.
Conservatives just aren't smart enough to figure out a computer. A radio is easier.
Morat,
I think white liberals like to hear themselves talk. So do white conservatives for that matter. The interesting question is why is there not a black or an hispanic KOS? Why is KOS as lilly white as the country club in Caddyshack? Black people certainly know how to and do use the internet and are about 90% or more Democratic in their politics, yet KOS can't seem to appeal to them.
"At Kos, those commenters would be more involved and determine more content. It's the whole participatory media."
Of course it is a lot easier to have participatory media when you don't actually believe in anything in particular beyond the odd slogan. Seriously, what the hell does KOS stand for beyond meaningless slogans like "free healthcare" and "restoring Democracy"? The answer is really nothing. It is like the anti-globalization rally where radical feminists march hand and hand with fundamentalist Islamist. There is no coherent ideology to the left anymore other than that they have common enemies. Love it or hate it, conservatives have a much more concrete ideology. That makes participatory media a bit more difficult since there are parameters to what it means to be conservative. Other than a general love of government largess and a hatred of Republicans, I am frankly not really sure that the people at KOS could really agree on anything concrete.
Looked at in that light, it makes sense that such an intellectual light weight like KOS could start the site. If you listen to the guy, he really doesn't know what he thinks either. He knows he doesn't like the war and doesn't like the current Democratic Party but he also does things like claim to be a libertarian but admit he has never read Hyak and isn't that familiar with the base tenants of it. I think he just likes the word. I guess in short, the Right, since the fall of Communism is in many ways are more dogmatic than the left, but that is probably not a bad thing for the Right.
The Lamont victory over Lieberman is a shining example of KOS success.
I believe it is the only victory they have had so far.
They certainly didn't help elect the Blue Dogs who are the Ds margin in Congress.
If you look at actual political positions vs. party affiliation you would find that the right won the election of 2006.
Of course Simon, Liberman is still in office. All they did was win a primary which was dominated by the radical fringe. Had they manage to get Lamont elected to something, that would have been notable.
John,
I was being sarcastic.
I never use sarc tags. I like to keep people guessing.
It is a personality defect.
Simon
If the goal of the right blogosphere is to produce a right-wing Kos, it will never happen as long as touchy little bitches are throttling the growth of their own blogs.
I'd say that this is right. Trevino wanted to model Redstate on Kos. His old site Tacitus started to develop in that direction, with diaries and all, but he wanted more activism on the right. Too many lefties on Tac.
Redstate seems to enjoy "blamming" anyone they don't like. I have a hard time seeing someone go at their editors like some of the DK crowd goes after Kos.
OMG! The blue statists have a community blog and the red statists don't! But wait! The red statists have lotsa call-in radio shows and the blue statists don't!
We have to do something to correct this horrible inequity, or the [fill in the blank] statists will win!
Seriously, wake me up when we get a really good libertarian talk show or community blog. And no, Neal Borscht doesn't count...
As I always wonder when I see people talk about the press - what political stripe are the folks who don't think the media supports their political enemies?
MSimon,
I am just dense sometimes. It is a personality defect.
John,
LOL. Thanks!
==
OK. Who gets more traffic? Free Republic or DailyKos?
Hint: the winner does not have Kos in the name.
Morat20,
I like "a liberal is a person so broadminded that he won't take his own side in an argument."
The point about the difference between left and right sites isn't just allowing argumentation over what THE HOST writes, but allowing "diarists" and whatnot to put content on the site. They don't just allow more responses, but more voices to put forward ideas from different viewpoints.
If you look at actual political positions vs. party affiliation you would find that the right won the election of 2006.
This is a popular position among conservatives in denial that their policies and behavior are not popular. Are you saying the Democrats were to the left of the Republicans that they beat? Conservative politicians and policies lost. Yes, the Dems elected in rural districts were more conservative than average Dems. But that's because people in rural areas are generally more conservative. Last time I checked Arnold was still counted as a Republican victory, even though he's pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-ESCR. Not exactly three conservative planks. Didn't Arnold speak at the National Convention too? I didn't realize that Republicans would celebrate liberal victories.
I'm sorry, but ultra-liberal blogs like Dkos, Huffington Post, and Pandagon are just as intolerant and insular as the right-wing quasi-fascist sewers of LGF and Free Republic. The thought that liberals are some how more open with their blogs than conservatives is a huge myth.
John-
Judging from the times I've read liberal blogs and the posts left by their commentors, the only things they seem to agree on are--
1)Bush is evil
2) The war is bad
3)Abortion (Pro-Choice)
3) Anyone who is poor, female, a minority, or queer is good
4) Conversely, anyone who is white, not poor, a male, or heterosexual is bad (or at least suspect)
5) Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the "Wealthy" solves everything.
John,
Why don't you go over there and argue for the war or say that perhaps impeachment is a bad idea or that perhaps socialized medicine isn't such a good thing. I am sure you are going to get lots of support over there. What will happen is that your account and IP address will be banned and that will be the end of that.
Clearly doesn't know anything about DailyKos. What will happen is that your diaries won't get read. You know, those diaries that ordinary people who sign up for accounts are allowed to post all by themselves. You wouldn't know about that, because you don't have any idea what you're talking about. That happens when you consider it virtue not to know things.
Further, Rush Limbaugh never drove public opinion in his life. You have it backwards. He is popular because he tells people things they agree with and what they want to hear, just like KOS is popular because he reaffirms liberals' prejudices. Then why, immediately after the 2006 elections, did he talk about how "liberating" (his word) he was because he no longer had to "carry water" (his words) for the Bush administration?
Do you ever, ever, bother to check anything but your gut before you make pronouncements? It might be a good idea.
Hey, John.
Markos, the "KOS" from Daily Kos, is a Salvadoran.
Christ, you are one ignorant summbitch.
You can always tell when Joe looses an argument he starts swearing. Kos maybe a Salvadoran with a Greek name but the fact is his movement is completly and totally white and upper middle class. Not that that is a bad thing, rich aging liberals have 1st Amendment Rights to, but it is still a fact no matter how uncomfortable and mad it makes you.
"Then why, immediately after the 2006 elections, did he talk about how "liberating" (his word) he was because he no longer had to "carry water" (his words) for the Bush administration?"
Of course he carried water for Bush because his listeners were Bush supporters. You prove my point. If Rush could do anything but react to his listeners views, he would never have had to carry water for Bush. He could have come out against Bush and not worried. He couldn't come out against Bush because he listeners would have abandoned him. Who do think his listeners are? I know it shocks you since you don't get out much, but there are millions of people out there who think Bush is the greatest thing since canned bear and those people tend to make up the bulk of who listen to Rush Limbaugh.
Yeah, you really got me there with your, um, false and immediately discredited statement. Wow, what a pummeling I'm taking.
Backpedal harder, John! Harder!
Joe, don't forget that Steve Gilliard, most prominently of the Kos alumni was Black. There are indeed black participants at Kos.
They sure do argue with each A LOT over there, but I'm a gun owning/hunting/military family liberal and was, in the past (as my comp didn't support the new Kos system updates for the past year or so ago), very open about this there.
I wasn't purged, or even troll rated for my stance there, in fact, I got points on a number of my posts. I now can, with a new comp, go back. The radical fringe elements post and then the comments rage about whatever the radical posted. It's interesting to watch.
It's a huge "room" with a bunch of people shouting all the time, with the front pagers and Kos basically doing their own thing, often with a billion diaries following telling them why they are WRONG.
Too noisy for me.
Of course he carried water for Bush because his listeners were Bush supporters. If Rush could do anything but react to his listeners views, he would never have had to carry water for Bush.
John he was talking about "carrying water" for the administration's immigration policy! You know, the one his listeners despised?
Your gut is a moron, John. Stop listening to it, and try, for once, to actually relate the things you write to objective reality.
capelza,
Good point about Gillard.
And, oh yeah, Kos is also a big supporter of gun ownership.
Hey, John, are there a lot of gun controllers posting at NRO?
And I will have you know that I often swear in my posts, regardless of how the debate is going, because I am a crotchety old cuss, thank you very much.
Hold it Joe,
I thought all of Rush's listeners thought whatever he told them? You mean they disagree with him? Think about what you are saying. If Rush Limbaugh was catching flack from his listeners for toeing the line on immigration, again you prove my point. Why on earth was glad not to have to carry water for Bush after the election? Because his listeners disagreed with Bush about immigration and Rush was apparently taking it on the chin from them for doing so. I would also imagine he was worried about his ratings, which again proves my point. Rush is popular because he agrees with his listeners not because he leads them. If he lead them, putting out he unpopular line about immigration would not have been such a problem.
Joe, you are not a stupid person. But you are so prejudiced and insecure that you constitutionally incapable of admitting any flaw in anyone you agree with or any virtue in anyone with whom you disagree. It totally clouds your judgment. Why is it so hard to admit that reasonable people can think differently than you? Why does disagreement with you always have to come from some sinister force like Rush Limbaugh leading people astray?
"I'm sorry, but ultra-liberal blogs like Dkos, Huffington Post, and Pandagon are just as intolerant and insular as the right-wing quasi-fascist sewers of LGF and Free Republic. The thought that liberals are some how more open with their blogs than conservatives is a huge myth."
I can post whatever I want on DKos. Maybe if I posted StormFront links or something I'd get banned, but that's about it.
I can't join LGF even to comment. I can't comment on the Hannity boards about a REPUBLICAN Presidential candidate. I may be able to sneak a few posts in on FreeRepublic, but I'm sure another mass purge will come along any day now.
There's no comparison, man. Come on.
Pick a political topic and Technorati search it. I can almost guarantee you that a huge percentage of the blogs that take the "conservative" side will either not allow comments or will require author approval of comments. That percentage will almost certainly be higher than that of "liberal" blogs, with the possible exception of some Femiblogs.
I'll leave you to your straw men. Like the one where I made comments about Rush's listeners, rather than his political/media model.
The blatherings of an idiot about my character and intellect don't matter to me, so save your typing fingers.
Why is it so hard to admit that reasonable people can think differently than you?
Please, joe, please please please say I'm not wrong please please please please please.
John - a word of advice:
bendover | September 7, 2007, 12:48pm | #
Believe me I have no desire to get into a mind-numbing argument with joe
nuff said
There are many people who disagree with me from principle, John. I debate with them every day on this site.
You, on the other hand, are just a shill for the Republicans, and write whatever you think will make them look good, no matter how far removed your arguments are from the facts, or even from your own principles.
Fluffy-
So I could go onto DKos, say Bush i right about the war, that I'm a registered Republican, and pro-life? And I wouldn't get banned? I doubt it.
How about if I do that on Democratic Underground?
I think we both can agree about the Femiblogs though. Pandagon is almost as insular and self-congratulatory as LGF.
Cesar,
Give it a shot, and tell us what happens.
DU, you would probably get banned.
Joe,
Where in this entire thread have I ever shilled for Republicans? My point was that people like to talk to other people who agree with them and that is why people who provide such a forum like Kos and Limbaugh do so well. I made no comment on which was better only that I think both of them are intellectual lightweights who are good at putting their fingers to the wind. The only real difference between the two is that Limbaugh has for better or worse a pretty dogmatic view of the world and KOS like the rest of the hard left really has no idea what he beleives in or wants other than ending the war and knowing that Republicans and anyone who disagrees with him is evil. Who is better or worse? Since I don't take either one of them seriously, I really can't say.
John. first of all, bendover is right: you are wasting your time.
Secondly, what you don't seem to get is that to joe, if you criticize the left (or Democrats) you are automatically for the right and Republicans. He is completely incapable of seeing non-partisan criticism of the left, mostly because he is so partisan himself.
I frequently argue with him, and he constantly accuses me of being a shill for the right/Republicans (as he did to you). I despise the right and Republicans as much as the left and Democrats, but joe cannot understand that.
You're beating your head against a brick wall. If it entertains you, have at it.
"Rush is popular because he agrees with his listeners not because he leads them."
You sure? I thought he was more popular among those who disagree with him.