Open the Door and Let 'Em In

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The Senate's immigration bill is unpopular, sure. But an Arizona poll suggests that the provisions that get the most kicks on cable news—the paths to citizenship for illegal workers—are popular in the state where the border debate rages the loudest.

Most Arizonans are willing to let those already in the country illegally stay, if they meet certain conditions, according to a new survey.

In a statewide poll of 386 voters, conducted earlier this month, 68 percent of respondents said they would support a provision in the federal immigration bill that provides a path to citizenship for the estimated 12 million people in the country who crossed the border illegally.

Another 26 percent were opposed, with the balance undecided.

Republican state Rep. Russell Pearce responded thusly:

He said the questions are designed to help "the traitors (Sens. John) McCain and (Jon) Kyl and the rest of them so they can push what they want on the American people." Pearce said he would phrase the question another way.
"Do you believe those who have broken into our country should be given legal status to remain here?" Pearce said is how the query should be phrased. "Do you believe that people should be granted amnesty for breaking our laws?"
But pollster Bruce Merrill said he has asked this type of question many times, with different wording. In fact, Merrill said, he even pretested the latest question using the word "amnesty" in half the queries and "path to citizenship" in the other.
In both cases, Merrill said, the results were virtually identical.
"It doesn't matter in general how I've asked it," he said.

"People know what you're talking about," Merrill continued.

But do people know it's illegal? *Cough, spit, snarl* Back in February I sang hosannah for the demise of our borders, language and culture.

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  1. As the “anchor baby” of parent’s who overstayed their tourist Visas and set up shop here and got citizenship via Ronald Reagan’s amnesty program, I would like to give a hearty GO FUCK YOURSELF to Rep. Russell Pearce.

  2. I have been pleasantly surprised by how unpopular the xenophobic position is among the American people. When this debate started, I though I was part of a small minority. Turns out I’m in the silent majority – who knew?

  3. As a descendant of English settlers who’ve been in (what’s now) the U.S. since before the Revolutionary War, I would also like to join the chorus of GO FUCK YOURSELF to Rep. Russell Pearce.

  4. Again no mention of the MexicanGovernment and it’s thirst for PoliticalPower.

  5. I’m married to a legal immigrant, who opposes the Senate immigration deal.

    The real problem with the Senate immigration deal is that it actually makes it harder for many high-skilled legal immigrants to come here, even as it lets illegal aliens — including some with criminal records — get amnesty.

    That’s very dumb, economically. Why keep out people with brains while admitting low-skill people with criminal records who will receive more in government services than they will pay in taxes?

    What bothers the general public, though, is that the Senate immigration bill’s border security proposals are a sham — they promise to do only what current law already required to be done.

    The public might be willing to allow amnesty for those illegals who are already here, but not if border security is not improved.

    Senator Sessions’ web site contains a list of 20 loopholes in the bill that make it a sham (and an injustice to those immigrants who go to the trouble of coming here legally).

  6. It’s a big old pile of sausage, Hans, no question about that.

  7. I agree with MikeP.

  8. The Senate’s immigration is unpopular, sure.
    The Senate’s immigration what? Bippy? Don’t keep us in suspense, Dave.

  9. As the descendant of a British debtor who was sent to this country BECAUSE he broke the law I too would like to join the GO FUCK YOURSELF chorus.

  10. as the descendant of irish people fleeing the murderous british, german and dutch protestants looking to make a buck and a whole bunch of cherokee who had no fucking idea just how bad all these pasty shitstains were going to be, i too would like to join the GO FUCK YOURSELF chorus and line dancers.

  11. I heartily endorse MikeP’s position, but I entirely renounce thoreau’s viewpoint.

  12. Actually, I believe that the Senate’s emigration would be quite popular.

  13. Back when I was a city planner, I once had to mediate a dispute between two neighbors who each wanted to purchase a little scrap of city-owned land that lay between their properties.

    One guy was Portugeuse, and the other was some kind of Asian.

    So I’m talking to the Portugeuse guy, and he’s got a really thick accent. After several attempts and repetitions, I was finally able to make out what he was saying to me; he was complaining about the immigrants coming in and ruining the neighborhood.

    Dey should-a go home!

  14. Following dhex’s lead, and with respect to Chicago Tom’s beginning, I, too would like to give a GO FUCK YOURSELVES to the nativists.

    And THUNDERCHICKEN shall peck Mr. Weigal (sic) on the taint for getting that Paul McCartney song in my head.

    However, after scrolling down, Mike and the Mechanics quickly replace that tune

  15. I heartily endorse MikeP’s position, but I entirely renounce thoreau’s viewpoint.

    I disagree entirely with P.L. here.

    Actually, I believe that the Senate’s emigration would be quite popular.

    Domestically, sure, but it would be one more reason for the rest of the world to hate America.

  16. I have been pleasantly surprised by how unpopular the xenophobic position is among the American people. When this debate started, I though I was part of a small minority. Turns out I’m in the silent majority – who knew?

    Well, I don’t know about the “silent” part.

  17. “Domestically, sure, but it would be one more reason for the rest of the world to hate America.”

    yes but couldn’t they emigrate to the ocean, or perhaps a volcano?

    or am i confusing “emigrate” with “human sacrifice” again?

  18. I’d like to extend a GO FUCK YOURSELF to those who think we should let everyone just illegally wander in all willy nilly. Today’s immigrants should have to go though the same grueling process my grandparents went through! That’s right, they should show up, wait in a short line to have their name written down, then legally wander in all willy nilly.

    Seriously, fuck Tom Tancredo. If he was in charge during the potato famine my ancestors would have starved to death while people jerked off over building an atlantic seawall

  19. D.A. Ridgely,

    There’s always the Moon. Yes, a satellite populated entirely by politicians. Perhaps they can legislate themselves some food, air, water, and power?

  20. So joe,
    Since we’re the silent majority, we can expect our elected representatives to represent us right? When do you expect to see that immigration bill, loaded with increased visas, coming up for final passage? Do you at least have a loving word for the President for keeping it alive?

  21. VM,
    Simply having a wonderful christmas time.

    hahahahahaha deal with that in your head for the next 8 hours.

  22. some kind of Asian

    What, they all look alike, joe?

  23. joe, you know that you deserved what R C just wrote. I mean, when you set yourself up as the guy who’s sensitive to these sorts of things…

  24. It was xenophobic, anti immigrant rhetoric that led to Arizona Rep JD Hayworth losing his House seat in the last election. Pearce is considered a fringe nutcase to most Arizona residents and this has long been his pet issue. Staking your or your party’s political future on an anti immigrant policy is incredibly stupid in a state/country with a growing latino population. This may be the issue that swings once solid red states like Arizona over to the blue side, and that is the reality that McCain and Kyl are dealing with.

  25. YOU BASTARD!!!!!!!!!

    *desperately tries to think of something else

    what does it mean to be a
    uni uni unitarian
    a uni uni unitarian
    a uni uni unitarian
    what does it tkae to be a
    uni uni unitarian…

    NOOOO SOMETHING STRONGER

    this liberal light of mine
    I’m gonna let it shine!

    this liberal light of mine
    I’m gonna let it shine!

    this liberal light of mine
    I’m gonna let it shine!

    let it shine! let it shine! let it shine!

    ARGHHHHHH!

  26. I agree with people who concur with individuals who happen to share a similar position as MikeP

  27. Let it shine
    let it shine
    let it shine…

    Ha ha! I can put on either the Staple singers or Mavis Staples and enjoy that song!

  28. I also believe I will offically join the GO FUCK YOURSELF party

    I’m surprised no one points out that there are 1000s of soldiers currently serving in the US Military who are the children of illegal immigrants. They are increasingly the steadiest source of recruits. People should be ashamed of the way they talk about ‘lawbreakers’ as though the crime were some natural law, and not some bureaucratic, mismanaged myth of control.

  29. WE BUILT THIS CITY
    WE BUILT THIS CITY
    WE BUILT THIS CITY
    ON! ROCK! N! ROLL!

  30. MOOSE, PREPARE TO FEEL THE URKOBOLD’S WRATH. THAT SONG IS VERBOTEN!

  31. Good point Gilmore. I’m also shocked that people who broke the law by speeding are allowed to keep driving – sometimes to even keep their record clean!

  32. Hey there Delilah
    What’s it like in New York City?

  33. I also believe I will offically join the GO FUCK YOURSELF party

    Saaaaaaaay We might just be onto something here. The GFY Party may just be the third party that Americans have been yearning for, and can breakthrough the third party fringe ceiling to become instantly viable. I can see it now…

    [Man in voting booth]
    Let’s see…
    President of the United states, hmmm. Republican? Democrat? Go Fuck Yourself! Yeah that’s it.

    Now Governor…
    Republican?…
    [Voice Over]
    Somebody’s got to win. Make your vote count. Make your voice heard. Go Fuck Yourself in 12

  34. “Do you believe those who have broken into our country should be given legal status to remain here?” Pearce said is how the query should be phrased. “Do you believe that people should be granted amnesty for breaking our laws?”

    I’d like to see the question phrased more like, “Do you believe the government should require discriminatory treatment against people based entirely on a condition of their birth?”

    I the answer is yes, then the poll could offer the respondent a checklist of conditions of birth to determine for which ones discrimination should be prohibited, permitted, or mandated.

  35. I GET KNOCKED DOWN
    BUT I GET UP AGAIN
    YOU’RE NEVER GONNA
    KEEP ME DOWN

    lolz all over the place

  36. The GFY Party is a joke. Unless the Fairness Doctrine is revived. Then it will happen. Oh, yes. It will.

  37. Actually, the post title put De La Soul in my head:

    Sweat, one sweat, two sweat, three
    Motions, what motions? what could it be?
    She, she (watchin’ you) who, me?
    Hon, velveeta got your cut
    (ain’t no lockin’ up now)
    Give the symmetrics to your bottom
    (ain’t no lockin’ up)

  38. No, highnumber, it’s Paul McCartney. As well as Wings.

  39. What, they all look alike, joe?

    lol

  40. I know what it is. It’s not what it put in my head, though.

    Jerk!

  41. I realize this is too much to ask, but if Weigel had a brain he would have realized a few major problems with the question.

    For instance, “for a number of years” is not what the SenateBill does: it allows anyone who’s been here before January, and just today someone was arrested who was planning to sell fake docs showing that for new arrivals.

    And, they don’t have to “learn English”, they only have to sign up.

    Does anyone think Weigel is anything other than just a shill?

    Bonus: the current bill still makes provisions for GangMembers to be legalized, as described at the link.

  42. highnumber,

    Someone’s knocking on the door. In fact, someone’s ringing the bell. Do me a favor and open the door, or I’ll sing “Coming Up. . .Like a Flower”. Or, perhaps, “Say, Say, Say”.

  43. Also made me think of Descendents:

    My world is my mind
    I’m locking myself inside
    People they can’t get in
    I have no use for them

    Not in my world!

    So stop knock knock knockin!
    Stop knock knock knockin’!
    Stop knockin’!

    Stop it!

    My favorite line from that song:
    Went to the No Nukes rally
    The Don Quixotes made me feel silly

    VM’s favorite (I don’t know why):
    Went to the toilet and sat down
    There was no one else around

  44. Very well, highnumber. Your punishment has been posted on Urkobold.

  45. Dey should-a go home!

    joe,

    One of the best arguments I have ever had the pleasure to witness was between a large Haitian woman and a Cuban guy in a Miami BBQ joint.

    CG: Go back to your island!

    LHW: No! You go back to YOUR island!

    CG: No! You go back to YOUR island!

    LHW: No! you go back to YOUR island!

    And round and round for a good five minutes until the owner of indeterminate national origin kicked them out.

    God I love Miami.

  46. As a proponent of big government I would like to give three cheers to the Senators and President Bush for trying to pass this bill which will vastly increase federal spending.

  47. What, they all look alike, joe?

    To most anglos, yes. You could just as easily say some kind of European if you’re unaware of the nationality. As surprised as I am to be defending joe – There’s nothing to get offended about here, move along folks.

  48. TLB, you will not foil us this time. Behold! Our new SecretPlan!

  49. As surprised as I am to be defending joe – There’s nothing to get offended about here, move along folks.

    Of course there is — If you really, REALLY need to get offended by something.

    What’s more offensive, referring to someone whose ethnicity you are unsure of as “Asian” (assuming they are from a nation in asia) — or taking a stab and being completety wrong?

    Personally, I like to go with “Oriental” 🙂

  50. Thanks for the link to millerchill.com. Now, for the adults:

    Miller sponsored a meeting to plan an ImmigrationMarch. One of the chief organizers of that meeting is an official with Mexico’s PRDParty.

    Once again: you can learn something here at Reason, but you won’t learn it from the paid hacks.

  51. ‘d like to extend a GO FUCK YOURSELF to those who think we should let everyone just illegally wander in all willy nilly. Today’s immigrants should have to go though the same grueling process my grandparents went through! That’s right, they should show up, wait in a short line to have their name written down, then legally wander in all willy nilly.-Jack

    My parents both came from Ireland cir 1930. My mom says they had to visit the US Embassy in Ireland and show documentation they were educated somewhat and literate. Then they had a physical, repeated every time the boat stopped to take on more immigrants. They began to wonder if there were any sick people in America.

    That was about it. No quotas on Irish like on the Jews, I think. More bureaucracy than the nineteenth century, but no visas or all the xenophobic crap today.

    A big “Fuck You” the Nativists by me, as well.

  52. 1. Far have I travelled, and much have
    I seen
    Dark distant mountains, and valleys
    of green
    Vast painted deserts, the sun sets on
    fire
    They carry me home to my Mull of
    Kintyre . . .

    2. There, now that we’ve exorcised Evil Paul with Good Paul, as the descendant of a long list of people England was really happy to see the back of, including a Puritan in 1640; a few from the ’45, a participant in the Croppie Rebellion, and a number of plain old criminals and at least one (probably, not confirmed) transported debtor, and not a bloody one of ’em since 1790, allow me to add GO FUCK YOURSELF to the Tancredo fans. Jeez, if my ancestors had there way, most of those guys wouldn’t be here, so they can bloody well learn like we did.

  53. Ooops, the Croppie rebel arrived in 1798. Sorry about that.

  54. “Miller sponsored a meeting to plan an ImmigrationMarch. One of the chief organizers of that meeting is an official with Mexico’s PRDParty.”

    Oh, My, God. Now An all-American company is sponsoring the greaser takeover.

    When will it end????

    Where can I hide from the beaner menace.

    They’ll make it so SALSA is the #ONE condiment in America before we know it.

  55. Warren,

    It’s tough to work my way up to “loving” over this p.o.s. bill, but I’ve complimented Bush before for making the effort.

    I have no idea when or if this bill is going to get to the floor.

  56. Also Warren,

    Since we’re the silent majority, we can expect our elected representatives to represent us right?

    It doesn’t always work that way. There is a loud minority that does a fairly convincing impression of a majority.

  57. RC, thoreau,

    Gimme a break – I don’t recall quizzing the gentleman on whether he was Thai or Cambodian.

    Easy on the hamstring there, RC. You’re reaching waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too hard. The only thing an idiotic cheap shot like that accomplishes is to draw attention to your inability to tell what is, and what is not, a racial slur.

  58. I agree with jf – RC’s comment is Laugh Out Loud funny.

    He can’t tell the difference between observing that you can’t identify a person’s national orgin by looking at him vs. stating that all members of a race look alike…

    which is funny enough…

    But then he trumpets his confusion as if it reflected poorly on me.

    That is funny.

  59. Not only that, SolitaryLunatic, but Miller is owned by a SouthAfricanCompany, and we all know SouthAfrica is UnAmerican and therefore very easy for us ToControl. Not only that–but it also owns PhillipMorris. Now even your MarlboroReds are owned by FelipeCalderon! MUAHAHAHA

  60. Allow me my GFY (though my quite religious parents would be horrified to hear me use that middle word).

    My ancestors were anabaptists and considered the State a necessary Evil at best and State Religion a tool of the Devil. That got them hounded throughout Europe. Only in America have they been able to settle down on their farms and live in peace.

  61. 2,000 miles of concertina wire can’t cost that much, probably less than the porky bribes in the senate bill right now.

  62. 2,000 miles of concertina wire can’t cost won’t do that much…

    Fixed.

  63. Hey! TLB? GO FUCK YOURSELF

  64. joe,

    You won me over.

    Even though you had me at hello 😉

  65. Staking your or your party’s political future on an anti immigrant policy is incredibly stupid in a state/country with a growing latino population.

    And why is it that the latino population is growing? Oh I forget but it seems like I heard something about that once……can anybody give me fucking clue as to why the latino segment is growing so fast?

    Blue states are so much more libertarian. Latinos are deeply libertarian too. Everybody knows that.

    Yeah let’s just get rid of borders, there’s no need for them. Tell the whole US of A: GFY!

    There, it’s done and over with now. Nothing left to debate, we’ve swept it all away.

  66. “2,000 miles of concertina wire can’t cost won’t do that much…”

    It’ll work just fine if if there are a few infantry divisions patrolling it. Bring the troops home – let Korea and Germany patrol their own borders.

  67. And why is it that the latino population is growing?

    Because Latinos are making babies? At least that’s how my niece and nephew came to be part of the growing population. And good luck kicking them out. They were born in the U.S.A.

  68. Militarized borders?

    Sweet!

    I got nothing. That’s just so, so not the kind of country I want to live in.

  69. “That’s just so, so not the kind of country I want to live in.”

    Well it won’t be like East Germany – nobody will stop you from leaving.

  70. America’s public resources are woefully underutilized.

    We need to import billions more poor people to better utilize our water resources, energy resources, and public schools, public roads, public parks, and voting booths.

    Eventually all nations and borders can be eliminated. We can have a one-world global government of super-intelligent elites decide what is best for everyone. Paradise it will be.

  71. That’s just so, so not the kind of country I want to live in.

    I have no problem with militarized borders. Hell, thats the primary purpose of the military, to keep foreign invaders out.

    Combine that with plenty of border check-in centers where simple disease/background checks can be done before allowing anyone in who wants in (who isnt a criminal or contagious) and we have a pretty good immigration policy:

    1. Virtually anyone who wants in legally gets in.
    2. Illegal aliens get shot on sight

    Im a big fence, wide gate fan.

  72. “Well it won’t be like East Germany – nobody will stop you from leaving.”

    that’s what they always say.

    somehow it always turns into a ham sandwich on rye with a side order of lies.

    funny, that.

  73. “Do you believe that people should be granted amnesty for breaking our laws?”

    Amnesty: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals. If they haven’t broken the law they don’t need amnesty. Moron.

    “Do you believe those who have broken into our country should be given legal status to remain here?”

    No. I think the law should be changed to let them in legally.

    Why keep out people with brains while admitting low-skill people with criminal records who will receive more in government services than they will pay in taxes?

    But how about “low-skill” people who will pick fruit, harvest Christmas trees, nanny kids, landscape, and do other jobs none of us want? Or the Mexican stone masons and bricklayers that are highly skilled in something that just doesn’t require a degree.

  74. “pick fruit, harvest Christmas trees … landscape, and do other jobs none of us want”

    All jobs that could/should be done by robots. And would be except for the cheap labor cost of the illegal immigrants.

  75. Landscaping robots?

    NASA is happy that it takes only a day to get a robot to go over a small rock without tipping over, and you are talking about landscaping robots?

  76. NASA is full of idiots.

    ***

    Vision Robotics, a San Diego company, is working on a pair of robots that would trundle through orchards plucking oranges, apples or other fruit from the trees. In a few years, troops of these machines could perform the tedious and labor-intensive task of fruit picking that currently employs thousands of migrant workers each season.

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/06/robo_picker

  77. Fruit picking is not landscaping.

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