California Assembly Wants to Outlaw Cat and Dog Miscegenation

No, not oulaw the the creation of biotech combinations of felines and canines, but crossbreeds of Siamese with Persians and Poodles with Golden Retrievers. Earlier this month, members of the California State Assembly voted 41-38 to outlaw the existence of mixed-breed dogs and cats in the Golden State.

According to a PetPac:

Assembly Bill 1634, authored by Los Angeles Assemblyman Lloyd Levine, will allow only select purebred dogs and cats to breed. Pet owners who don't sterilize their mixed breed pets by four months of age will face a $500 fine and possible criminal penalties.

The bill will now go California's Senate. PetPac info on the bill here. Whole press release here.

Kudos for long time reason reader Mark Lambert.

Addendum: AB 1634 is even more ridiculously draconian than I thought.  See the text here. 

Comments

[Lost_In_Translation]

WTF?

[John]

I wonder how much the puppy mills and the pure breed dog and cat breeders paid for this piece of inanity. It always comes down to cash for these assholes and there is always someone providing it and driving their actions.

[JLM]

What next- labradoodle concentration camps?

[Robert]

An antimiscegenation law for dogs & cats??! How'd they think those "breeds" came about to begin with?

[Toxic]

I wish this was unconstitutional.

But naw, this is just one of those laws that everyone will totally ignore.

[thoreau]

Cue Bill Murray: "Dogs and cats living together! Utter chaos!"

[crimethink]

Wow. This is ridiculous.

The Governator will veto this, right?

[crimethink]

If you outlaw labradoodles, only the outlaws will have labradoodles.

[John]

Also,

This if it were actually enforced would just ensure more inbreeding and genetic problems in pure breed dogs and cats. Is it really possible that people inside or outside of government could be this stupid? Obviously it is, but this is so dumb it even surprises me.

[JLM]

"You'll get my labradoodle from my cold, dead......" oh jesus, this is ridiculous.

[crimethink]

The only reason I could see for this would be to force non-breeders to sterilize their pets without affecting breeders. If you're not intending to breed dogs, you really should get your dog sterilized. (Though I don't think this should be required by law, of course).

[J sub D]

I am not really surprised that some lackey proposed this inane bill. I am surprised the state assembly of the formerly great state of California, passed it.
Others will point out the utter stupidity and ignorance displayed by a yes vote, I'll just express dismay at the level of intelligence displayed by 41 elected officials. We can only hope the California state senate has an average IQ above room temperature.

[MP]

Why stop with cats and dogs. Just think of what happens when different breeds of people intermix. Chaos!

[Michael Pack]

So we take Hitler's idea for humans and transfer it to pets?Got to love the irony.

[crimethink]

I can't wait for the no-knock raids at 2 AM on the word of an informant who reported a beagle-dachsund bitch in heat.

"We couldn't do this during the day, because then the suspect could have opened the back door to let the dog out. Officer safety is the first concern."

[Shirley Knott]

It is actually a much much worse bill than this.
It will destroy the hobby breeders, the small-scale breeders, most hobbiests, and ALL new/rare breeds in the state. Enforcement will land in part on vetrinarians, who must confirm the neutered status of pets as part of mandatory rabies vaccinations.
For most animals, 4months, the mandated age of neutering, is TOO YOUNG. Many dogs, at least, do not develop full coats or "healthy personalities" if neutered before puberty. (No, this is not the old canard about 'let them have a litter before neutering'.)
It will solve no problems and create a host of new ones that we can already see, let alone the effects of 'unintended consequences' we cannot yet predict.
And the AKC couldn't even be bothered to send a representative to the public hearings.
Talk to some of the small scale and 'rare breed' folks in CA to get a better picture of how bad this nightmare will be.
"Won't be enforced" is a sham -- it WILL be enforced, but selectively. Which is the worst of all possible worlds.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

[rm2muv]

I've been owned by both purebreds and strooches. Those Assemblymen must be purebreds, 'cause there is nothing quite as stupid as a purebred.

[JW]

Sweet! So, my devious plans for an army of a Persian Shepards may still commence!

[Ken Shultz]

I've volunteered in a certain capacity for dog rescue and I've worked with some fairly committed volunteers, and I know breeders are never popular with those guys...

...but mixed breeds really make sense if you don't want a lot strays and dogs put to sleep.

I grew up with a beagle. I'm what you might call a beagle supremacist. ...beagles have some of the best temperaments you can find in a dog, but they're not for everybody. They're hound dogs, so they howl a lot. Their noses are sensitive like nobody's business so they're always in the trash. So people buy 'em for the "personality" and send 'em to the pound for those traits.

Puggles don't have those issues.

If one of the basic problems that leads to so many dogs at the pound is because we're using dogs bred for hunting and working as house pets, then breeding house pets (like puggles) rather than working and hunting dogs seems like an answer.

If there's any state where animal rights people have a leg up, it's California... ...but I bet the animal rights people get caught up in a purity dilemma rather than doing the pragmatic thing.

...us libertarians, we know all about those kinds of dilemmas, right?

[John]

Does anyone remember the old Beverly Hillbillies episode where they Clampett's hound dog got busy with Mrs. Drysdale's prized poodle? Perhaps that happened to one of the Asemblymen's pure bred prompting this insanity.

[JLM]

"The Governator will veto this, right?"

That is probably not a given. I think he burned his copy of Free to Choose the day that Milton Friedman died.

[rm2muv]

Ouch! My Chesapeake just bit me. She's offended at being compared to a Califoria Assemblyman.

[Ken]

I read this, and quickly went to post WTF, but saw I was beat to it. Oh, hell, WTF!

[Alan]

Don't worry, the manbearpig lobby will fight this--TO THE DEATH.

[crimethink]

Of course, the mayor of LA will have to start suing dog owners in other states because they're breeding mongrels that wind up on the streets of his city. Then he'll station an inspector at their house to make sure that all mongrels are wearing condoms at all times.

[Bob Barker]

Help control the pet population; have your pet spayed or neutered.

[JLM]

"So we take Hitler's idea for humans and transfer it to pets?Got to love the irony."

I guess those of us who live with a superior aryan race of German Shepherd Dogs are safe?

[Pro Libertate]

My brothers and sisters in California! Don't despair! Pro Libertate's backyard, located in Sunny Florida?, a short drive away from the Gulfcoast beaches and Walt Disney World?, is available for undiscriminating and unregulated breeding! For a mere $10,000 per dog, per hour. Come one, come all. Unlike California, we do not discriminate.

[John]

Ken,

Puggles are so ugly and pathetic, I actually feel sorry for them. Why anyone would want to take a respectable hound dog and breed that monstrosity is beyond me. I agree with you, however, that people buy the wrong breeds. The problem mostly lies with mid-sized hunting and herding dogs. People don't want a rat dog and are afraid to buy a large dog so they split it down the middle and get something like an Austrailian shepherd or worse yet a beagle. Beagles are hard headed, fucking impossible to train, dig wholes like a gopher, are incredible escape artists and are capable of doing nothing besides sticking their nose to the ground and tracking a varmit of some sort. That is what they are breed for and they make terrible housepets. Same with herding dogs like Austrailians or worse yet Border Collies. They have huge amounts of energy and need a job, without a job and exercise they just get into trouble and wind up in the shelter.

The truth is that you are better off with a big dog like a lab or a German Shepherd that you can exercise once or twice a day but is otherwise a couch potatoe than you are with a most mid-sized breeds.

[jimmydageek]

Well, this will create a black market for mixed breeds in the state of California. Imagine the crime that will follow...

[Ken Shultz]

"...but I bet the animal rights people get caught up in a purity dilemma rather than doing the pragmatic thing."

Some of the volunteers I was talking about, for instance, were very much against hypoallergenic cats...

http://www.allerca.com/

...because of the presumed testing. "But guys, there's gonna be fewer abandoned cats due to allergies", I'd say. That's one of the biggest reasons people abandon cats.

[jimmydageek]

...Crips encroaching on Bloods territory, selling mix breeds across the boundaries...chaos ensues...the horror!!

[Aresen]

John | June 25, 2007, 12:18pm | #

Also,

This if it were actually enforced would just ensure more inbreeding and genetic problems in pure breed dogs and cats.

John is 100% correct.

I worked in a vet clinic in school and have been around dogs and cats all my life. The more "highly-bred" the dog or cat, the more neurotic it was. It was the unplanned mutts and tabbies that were the sanest and most pleasant to be around.

[jimmydageek]

...because of the presumed testing. "But guys, there's gonna be fewer abandoned cats due to allergies", I'd say. That's one of the biggest reasons people abandon cats.

Really? I thought it was because they're pesky, insufferable creatures who would rather ignore you than keep you company...

...what do I know...

[Seamus]

This is from The Onion, right?

[SPD]

Oh, my God... Rick Santorum was right!

[Ryo]

After following this thread, I had to go to the wikipedia page for puggles. The only insight I can now offer is awwwwwwwwww.

[MadBiker]

can't we just make California its own country all ready?

Damn Polk and his war to claim Cali as America's own...

[Ken Shultz]

"Really? I thought it was because they're pesky, insufferable creatures who would rather ignore you than keep you company..."

Yeah, I suspect there's a lot of guys who suddenly develop an allergy to cats when they move in with their girlfriend, and plenty of women suddenly realize they were always allergic to dogs when they move in with their boyfriend...

But there are plenty of people with legitimate allergies too, enough, at least, for there to be a market for allergen free cats. ...but then there's a market for nipple rings, so I don't know how big that market has to be.

[John]

Those are the puppies Ryo. The adults are butt ugly. It is a terrible thing to do to a good hound.

[Ken Shultz]

"I worked in a vet clinic in school and have been around dogs and cats all my life. The more "highly-bred" the dog or cat, the more neurotic it was."

Breeders inbreed.

It's how you keep the most desirable features from the last generation. I'm not sure neurosis is attributable to that, but a lot of problems are.

[John]

Ken,

My wife is alergic to cats. When she moved in with me, she had to take a clariton every day because of my cat. After a year now, she rarely takes a clariton and is basically over her allergies. I know several people who have the same story of the allergies going away after a few months of actually being around the cat.

If some woman wanted me to get rid of a cat much less a dog because of her bitching and moaning about the animal, it would be her, not the dog who would be hunting a new home. Any man who would give up his dog over the whining of a woman, truely has no balls.

[CoaC]

You spend all day feeding, grooming and cleaning up after you dog. You dog looks at you and thinks, "Wow! You must be God".

You spend all day feeding, grooming and cleaning up after you cat. You cat looks at you and thinks, "Wow! I must be God".

[carrick]

It's hard to find a dog that is stupider that a well-bred Irish Setter. But with Shelties, the better the breeding, the better the dog -- brains, temperment, etc.

The problem isn't bad dogs (or bad breeds), it's bad owners.

[John]

Irish setters and Goldens are the dumb blonds of the dog world. Beautiful delighful animals but all have the same vacant Farah Fawcitt like stare. But hey everyone loves a dumb blond.

[Twain]

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man.

[Eric Atkinson]

California ... What ain't fruits or nuts... is flakes.

[Charles]

This is actually a pretty good idea, but one put into practice with such astounding ineptness that it will make things worse than the situation it seeks to remedy.

Encouraging people to spay or neuter their pets: good. Doing so in a way that encourages puppy mills, sets a ridiculously early age for neutering, and encourages people just to avoid veterinarian care for their pets altogether: bad.

[The Korean Chef]

After following this thread, I had to go to the wikipedia page for puggles. The only insight I can now offer is awwwwwwwwww.

Well, it looks tender enough...

[Joshua corning]

Can black people still breed with white people?

[dj of raleigh]

Are they going to allow non-pure bread people to still breed?

Something has to be done about unwanted animals,
but is this the solution?

They could put a bounty on dog and cat balls,
like they did for wolf or cougar hides.
You get $50 bucks a pair for them.
That would get you some results.

[Isaac Bartram]

Of topic as usual, but:

Any man who would give up his dog over the whining of a woman, truely has no balls.

made me think of a bumper sticker I saw once:

I got a gun for my wife.

Best damn trade I ever made.

That's my favorite after:

Why do they call it TOURIST SEASON if we're not allowed to shoot them?

[Cesar]

John-

The worst two breeds I think a beginner dog owner could buy is a Siberian Husky or a Dalmatian. They are both very "cute" but they are extremely hyper. If you don't run at least three miles everyday or live in the countryside, forget ever owning a Siberian and not having it destroy your house.

I read several articles that after "101 Dalmatians" and "Snow Dogs" came out, there were a whole lot of Dalmatians and Siberians showing up at the local pound.

[Jello Biafra, not-so-proud Cal]

If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve.

[Jeff]

Sterilize the legislators. That will improve the gene pool a lot more.

[Aresen]

Ken

I realize breeders inbreed to select for "desirable" characteristics. The problem is they breed for those characteristics at the expense of basic survival characteristics. The most commonly neglected characteristics are the mental/psychological ones, because they are harder to describe and measure. Breed standards are almost all in terms of "conformation".

[Isaac Bartram]

If this law is intended to encourage spaying and neutering of pets it's an awfully ham-handed way to go about it.

Not uniquely ham-handed mind you.

The Borough of Etobicoke (once part of the Municipality of Metropolitan Toronto but now absorbed into the new City of Toronto* I believe) once had an ordinace that it was illegal to take a bath in water below some temperature (95F or thereabouts).

The law was not meant to prohibit people taking cold baths but rather was to ensure that landlords provided sufficient hot water to their tenants. Still it conjured up visions of officious by-law enforcers barging in on unsuspecting bathers with thermometers in hand.

*That's the Toronto in Canada, by the way. I need to point this out since their is a tiny railroad junction in northwest Orange County, Florida with the same name. Not likely to be confused, but still, for the sake of clarity and all.

[Pirate Jo]

"It is a terrible thing to do to a good hound."

Are you insinuating there is something wrong with pugs??? Pugs rule, John drools!

That said, lots of those puggles don't look like the one in the Wikipedia picture, and they get dumped in shelters by the litter.

[highnumber]

They can outlaw border collies as far as I'm concerned. Frickin' sons-of-bitches treat me like a goddamn sheep. Herding me into the corner, nipping at me, staring me down. I don't fear the monkeys or the dolphins. I fear the border collies.

And the geese. Hate the geese.

[John]

Cesar,

Huskies are also terrible with cats. If you look at any husky rescue site and every available dog says "no cats". People buy them because they are cute, then they grow up and kill the family cat and get dumped. I so wish people would think more before getting a dog.

[Rhywun]

[Beagles] make terrible housepets

That explains a LOT. My mom got three beagles after I left for school; I can't stand the damn things when I go back to visit. I was raised on cats--I expect my pets to by and large take care of themselves. These beagles, each one is the equivalent of raising 3 or 4 toddlers.

[Ken Shultz]

I remain a steadfast beagle supremacist.

[VM]

Highnumber is obviously a Man of the Dogs...

[highnumber]

I was raised on cats [...]

Really? I've heard they're too stringy and kind of gamey.

[Kap]

John,

I have an Aussie shepherd and he's the laziest bastard I have ever known.

As always, it's the owner, not the dog, they just take after their owner's behavior.

Whoops.

[Kap]

Of course an ex-neighbor of mine also had one who was just like your stereotype. His favorite thing to do was deliberately pee on the head of my wife's chihuahua.

I miss that dog.

[Pro Libertate]

This reminds of the Cats are Stupid thread for some reason.

Beagles are not untrainable, they're just difficult to train.

[John]

Kap,

We had a German Shepherd who used to like to pee on the head of this especially unhealthy and nasty pug of my sisters. God I loved that Dog. Maybe I am wrong about Aussies. I always assumed that they were hyper and too smart for their own good.

[John]

"Beagles are not untrainable, they're just difficult to train."

I had a beagle as a small child. He was cute as anything and a loving wonderful dog. We just never could get him to stay in the yard and not roam and my family always had dogs and were pretty good dog trainers. There was just not stopping the beagle. He ended up getting hit in the road much to everyone's heartbreak. We never had another beagle.

[Triumph]

I *poop* on this stupid legislators.

[Ken Shultz]

Beagles are not untrainable, they're just difficult to train.

They'll never be 100% 'cause their sense of hearing and overwhelming sense of smell is such a distraction.

...which is why their relative the fox hound is used in large packs. They can't all get distracted, can they?

Mine was really well trained, but I often had to call twice. The second time was like a reminder. She'd just plain forget I called.

[highnumber]

Fowl are a far bigger problem than slugs.

I hate geese especially. Hateful, hateful creatures. That's why I try to eat foie gras from only ducks.

[John]

"Mine was really well trained, but I often had to call twice. The second time was like a reminder. She'd just plain forget I called."

Once the nose goes down and the tail goes up, there is really no stopping a beagle. I have found foxhounds and coonhounds to be less bull headed and easier to deal with than beagles. Beagles are just single minded.

[Kap]

My mistake: mine is actually an Australian Cattle Dog, which Wikipedia informs me is entirely different from an Australian Shepherd (which is in fact not from Australia). ACDs are a cross-breed of border collie brought by the Australian settlers and the local dingos, for heat resistance. Accordingly, they are smart like a BC and wildish like a dingo. ACD is the "blue heeler" or "Road Warrior" dog, AS is more like a conventional shepherd.

Mine is not nearly as stocky as an ACD should be, and as my vet informs me, has "an unusually small head". He is a profoundly weird dog in many respects and often acts like he has Asperger's Syndrome. I'm guessing he's the runt of the litter and might be a little slow. He's a great dog though, and very good at catching flies.

[Pro Libertate]

John,

Aha! Like cats! Stupid!

[smacky]

My cousin just got a puggle for her birthday this year. His name is Poncho.

He is really cute. But let's face it, puppies in general are damn cute.

Ken Schultz,

I once had to get rid of a kitten because of allergies. I felt awful, but he was killing me. I really wanted to keep him but had to surrender him back to the owners. I don't know what they did with him.

[John]

KAP,

ACDs are actually pretty cool. I have only been around them on farms where they had a job so I don't know what kind of housepets they make but are definitely tough, smart dogs.

Smacky,

When puggles grow up they look like something you would see if Tim Burton decided to make a horror flick out of a Dr. Seuse book. They are also unhealthy because beagles are supposed to have long snouts. The short snout makes them very succeptible to heat stroke.

[cs]

I have an Australian shepherd, adopted as an adult at around 2 years of age.

The great thing about my dog is that she can be a couch potato when you're a potato, and can be super hyperactive when you want to do something. I take her on a 3 mile hike on the mountain every day and she goes nuts chasing quail and rabbits, and then comes home and can instantly calm down and cuddle next to the girlfriend while she's watching one of those damned dancing shows.

She's never tried to herd us. She has this amazingly cute habit of greeting us with a stuffed toy in her mouth and her tailess bottom wiggling like mad. Leaves the cats alone. She can grab an object by name, even if she's only heard the name once or twice.

And she's apparently tri-lingual. Not only does she understand Canine and English, she also knows Italian. When she was playing with the family next door, their Italian grandmother told her, in Italian, to sit and then to lie down, and the dog did so.

Best dog I've ever had. Her life would probably be perfect if she didn't have to deal with the other dog in the house: an amazingly stupid but sweet Labrador - Golden Retriever mix who is an oversized clumsy thing who acts like a puppy. That is the only thing she ever herds and, with the huge intelligence gap, she can play her much bigger companion like a fiddle.

[John]

The great thing about my dog is that she can be a couch potato when you're a potato, and can be super hyperactive when you want to do something. I take her on a 3 mile hike on the mountain every day and she goes nuts chasing quail and rabbits, and then comes home and can instantly calm down and cuddle next to the girlfriend while she's watching one of those damned dancing shows."

I am sure she is a wonderful dog because you have the time and energy to give her the exercise she needs. If you lived in a one bedroom appartment and left her in a crate every day, I bet she would find ways to get into trouble. As someone said above, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

[smacky]

John,

The puggle was purchased for her by someone else.

Personally, I would never want someone to buy a dog for me. That's just too personal a decision to let someone else make for me, even if it is a kind gesture. I want the cutest of the cute and the fuzziest of the fuzzy. I will accept nothing less.

[David]

Levine also proposed a bill mandating how zoos handle their elephants, going so far (IIRC) to place a precise limit on how far those elephants must walk each day. Here's hoping he gets trampled by a roaming elephant.

[Pro Libertate]

smacky,

No dogs. Right. You scared me there for a minute. I guess I might as well confess: All the Urkobold guys pitched in, and we've bought you a pet anaconda. They're really easy to care for.

[Seitz]

They can outlaw border collies as far as I'm concerned. Frickin' sons-of-bitches treat me like a goddamn sheep.

We had a border collie that died a month before her 17th birthday. She may have been mixed with something else (we bought her for $5 in front of an Alberston's). Really great dog. Terrific personality. Instinctually, she was incredibly smart, and after learning to walk properly on a leash as a puppy, she never forgot. But she was also stupid in the sort of comical ways that you'd like a dog to be stupid.

My next dog will be a greyhound. Primarily because they're easy to come by at rescues. But I did some reading and learned that they'd like nothing more than to lie in bed and sleep all day. Me Too!! It's a perfect fit.

[carrick]

My next dog will be a greyhound. Primarily because they're easy to come by at rescues. But I did some reading and learned that they'd like nothing more than to lie in bed and sleep all day. Me Too!!

Greyhounds, like all sight hounds, need to run. They may sleep 20 hours a day, but they need to run, really run, for that other 4.

[Ken Shultz]

"I once had to get rid of a kitten because of allergies. I felt awful, but he was killing me. I really wanted to keep him but had to surrender him back to the owners. I don't know what they did with him."

Like I said, I know there are a lot of people out there with very real allergies to cats...

...but even if you were just makin' it up, smacky, I'd trade a kitty in for you on your worst day ever.

[Seitz]

They may sleep 20 hours a day, but they need to run, really run, for that other 4.

All the books I've read on greyhounds (all 2 of them), say they need to walk for maybe an hour a day, or run for about 15 minutes, and that's it.

[Kap]

A good friend of my wife's has two greyhounds. My wife was her roommate briefly about 10 years ago, and during that time one of them had a leg injury. My wife babied her with (in a really pathetically sympathetic voice) "poor poor Foxie" while she was convalescing. Now 10 years later whenever my wife sees her she goes, "poor poor Foxie" and the dog gets this really pathetically hurt look on her face, holds her paw in the air, and limps up to my wife to be cared for. This annoys the crap out of her owner.

[carrick]

All the books I've read on greyhounds (all 2 of them), say they need to walk for maybe an hour a day, or run for about 15 minutes, and that's it.

I could be in error. I don't have personal experience with them, but friends of friends (you know the drill) have suggested that they need more exercise than adopting families realize.

Good luck, they are a sight to behold.

[beachbum]

Don't know about Beagles, but if my otherwise obediant Cairn Terrier gets outside the fence, it's as if I no longer exist. She goes into varmint-hunting mode and bolts. Fortunately, my Border Collie will herd her back. The Cairn barks and snaps at her the whole way, but she gets her back every time. It's pretty cool to watch.

[Seitz]

Fortunately, my Border Collie will herd her back.

Our border collie was the typical "toughest dog in the world".....on her side of the fence. We had a cockapoo that used to nudge our back gate open occasionally, for no other reason than to wander a couple of houses down, and it took her a while to do that. The border collie used to go the gate, but never through the opening, and bark at the cockapoo.

Like I said, she was great on a leash. She never even looked at other dogs or cats if we were on a walk. But inside her property, where there was no imminent danger, she was fierce. In her world, she dominated the mailman. He'd come up on the porch, she'd bark, and he'd leave every single time. She was undefeated for her career.

[Rhywun]

Nuts... I meant my mom has three basset hounds, not beagles. Regardless, they are quite a handful.

And as a cat lover, I will be the first person to admit they are indeed dumb as bricks.

[lunchstealer]

Any man who would give up his dog over the whining of a woman, truely has no balls.

Of course, if you had no balls, it would certainly make it easier to give up the woman.

[Single Issue Voter]

Progressives love their eugenics.

[Matthew Brown]

We have an Aussie Cattle Dog - a runty one, like the one described above - and five cats. The ACD is convinced that we must have acquired him because our herd of cats needed to be managed. Since herding cats is nigh-on impossible, he's kept very busy.

He's a good dog, albeit easily over-excited.

As to the intelligence of cats, I leave you with this: Dogs are trained by their owners. People are trained by their cats.

[Mark Lambert]

Omigosh, the California Assembly wants to allow ONLY the genetically-modified animals (purebreds) to reproduce and ban the dogs/cats they way nature intended them (mutts)!

[huh]

No domestic animals are as nature "intended" them.

Of course, nature doesn't have intentions, only outcomes.

Yeah, the point of this bill is to reduce pet overpopulation. Unfortunately, it will increase the incentive for lazy & careless people to abandon their animals. After all, who can they fine for failing to neuter a feral?

[Pro Libertate]

Somebody probably already said this upthread, but, um, what happens if two dogs of different breeds just happen to mate? You know, without human intervention? Dog-on-dog crime?

What's a "mixed breed", anyway? Forced sterilization starts sounding like a taking if you're already breeding. Hmmm. Any rational basis at all for this legislation?

[Xanthippas]

It appears that nobody on this thread, from Mr. Bailey himself to "Pro Libertate", actually did any reading as to what this bill is about. I'd type it all out here, but I have my own blog for that sort of thing and you're all welcome to read my "analysis" there:

http://threewisemen.blogspot.com/2007/06/pet-miscegenation-illegal.html

I will say I'm extremely disappointed that Bailey could not see fit to do a better job of informing his readers what this bill is all about. Or even why he's opposed to it for that matter. I was unaware that general libertarian principles provide that people may allow their dogs to breed as irresponsibly as they see fit, with neither care nor concern for the animals euthanized as a result and the cost to the taxpayer.

Also, PetPac is a highly dubious source for anything related to this bill, as one look at their website made quite clear to me ("AB 1634 Kills Pets!" Really?)

Anyway, knee-jerk opponents of this bill, including some readers of this thread, would do well to do the research that Bailey did not do for you.

[mike]

"Greyhounds, like all sight hounds, need to run. They may sleep 20 hours a day, but they need to run, really run, for that other 4."

NOT TRUE! Remember, they are sprinters, not runners. I've owned 5 of them. They're hyper for about 15 minutes at a time, love walks, love the dog park, and in general are low maintenance and usually good with kids. Not always with cats, though, some of them think they make a good lunch. And yes, they do spend most of their time imitating space rugs and sofa cushions.

But AB 1634 is a bad idea for all involved, and PETA is behind it. Some of us in CA are working hard to defeat this idea, and the Libertarian Party of CA is officially against it as well...

[mike]

Xanthippas, I have researched the bill and have been tracking this since day one. Your statements on "general libertarian principles provide that people may allow their dogs to breed as irresponsibly as they see fit, with neither care nor concern for the animals euthanized as a result and the cost to the taxpayer" is completely false and not in any sense representative of libertarian values; rather they represent the illegal puppy mill breeders. Anyone who knows anything about libertarian thought *knows* that we also adovcate the responsibility that comes with freedom, and in this case that means being responsible for the animals bred and the litters they produce. Plus, as any repsonsible pet owner or vet will tell you, pediatric spay/neuter is unhealthy for the pet. I suggest you actually do some *real* research on this.

[Xanthippas]

Mike,

I made such a statement because Mr. Bailey offered no rationale for why a libertarian would be either for or against this bill except the implication of a knee-jerk "well government wants it, so I'll oppose it." Thus, this post is not a good defense of the libertarian take on this bill.

You on the other hand at least explain your position on the bill. I do think you're wrong: advocating responsibility is not as effective as requiring it (or punishing the lack thereof). Perhaps if more pet owners adopted a libertarian sentiment (a sentiment I agree with incidentially) then we wouldn't be talking about the hundreds of thousands of pets put down every year in California. They do not, and thus regulation and punishment must be used as a deterrant to their irresponsibility.

As a responsible pet owner, I'm aware that some think that spaying/neutering is not good for your pet. I will say no study suggests that definitely, and there are just as many ways in which spaying/neutering is good for your pet. But what's best for the pet population as a whole is that they not be permitted to breed indiscriminately, and left on the street to suffer and die or put down by inconvenienced owners. Someone who is concerned about their pet specifically would probably also care about that as well.

If PETA is behind the bill, so is the Humane Society of the United States, the Animal Legal Defense Fund, various vetiranary associations, and various animal advocacy groups. Perhaps you can argue against something because PETA supports it, but know that most major organizations that are at all concerned with the interests of taxpayers and animals support this bill.

I did do "real" research on this issue, which is why I invite you to follow the link to my blog and read what I found.

Lastly, if the Libertarian Party of CA is against this bill, then they have allied themselves with dog breeders and puppy mills that are out to make a buck. Your principled defense of libertarianism suffers as a result.

[M]

I try to eat foie gras from only ducks.

As opposed to ducks with siblings? Which, we learned, are probably too smart or too social to get caught anyway.

[Mark H.]

Xanthippas, regardless of the intent of the bill or who supports/doesn't support it, the unintended consequences are what Mr. Bailey and others are referring to.

I have just read your blog entry. You, sir, are guilty of that which you accuse others! "Real" research on this or any issue also involves considering the consequences.