Media

Worst Lede of the Decade: Finalist

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From the San Francisco Chronicle's editorial on the Virginia Tech killings:

April is, indeed, the cruelest month, the month that comes straight out of T.S. Eliot's wasteland of useless carnage and lost hope; at least for American students in this last decade. For it is the month when the shootings happen.

What are the words that clutch, what policy proposals grow out of this lettered rubbish? Find out here, if you can stand to read more.

[Via Tim Cavanaugh.]

NEXT: Assault Behind Bars

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  1. As it turns out, September gave us all the sloppy sex and free booze we could handle. That damn April just won’t get with the Zodiacal program.

  2. Funny how they point out how it’s the unarmed that are being preyed upon yet call for more gun control.

    It’ll be interesting to see what we learn from this. From Columbine, peace officers learned that they can’t sit around waiting for the SWAT team to arrive. There are some rare situations where you just have to go in there and do something before it gets worse. An example of that learning put to use was when Diamond Daryl (?) got shot in Columbus.

  3. You know what’s great about April? Warm weather without the summer mosquitos.

  4. We need more effective gun control laws in this country. If we could keep guns out of the hands of criminals this would not happen. We should start by renewing the assault weapon ban.

  5. Steve,

    You are putting the carriage before the horse. First we need to outlaw murder. If murder were outlawed, this couldn’t have happened.

  6. “There is no question that we would suffer less gun violence and fewer horrific shootings such as these if these deadly weapons were harder to obtain.”

    obtain, by whom?

    Making it harder for Barack Obama or thoreau to obtain one of these deadly weapons would do nothing to reduce gun violence.

    Making it harder for mentally disturbed college students to obtain them, on the other hand, might.

  7. Lamar–Shhhh. Logic just confuses the gun-controlling types.

    There is no question that we would suffer less gun violence and fewer horrific shootings such as these if these deadly weapons were harder to obtain.

    See?

  8. “For it is the month when the painfully strained prose happens”

  9. Oooh, ohhh, I read the first line of The Wasteland too! Can I be an editor?

  10. Diamond Daryl (?) got shot in Columbus

    I realize that not everyone is a Pantera fan, but, dude, you seriously need to get your ass for that.

  11. Whoops. The Waste Land, I meant.

  12. Do over…

    Diamond Daryl (?) got shot in Columbus

    I realize that not everyone is a Pantera fan, but, dude, you seriously need to get your ass kicked for that.

  13. Wasn’t that “Dimebag” Daryl?

  14. Can someone please tell me this about Va gun laws?
    If the young lady had filed with the cops about the stalking 2 years ago, could he have legally purchased the guns?

  15. Didn’t read the policy discussion, but I’m going to guess it has something to do with adding days to February and taking ones away from “the cruelest month”.

  16. Did we really just see someone call for an ass-kicking over a dead guitarist? Really?

  17. what policy proposals grow out of this lettered rubbish?

    Well, they did say the thing about making the guns more difficult to obtain than they are now, which is not a popular suggestion here, but it is not exactly what you would call an extreme anti-gun position. So vague, it barely even qualifies as a policy proposal.

    Then, the article said that police should not be held liable in tort, which I think we all agree with.

    Then, the article said not to demand too many metal detectors in schools, which I think we also agree with.

    Then the article said said not to have too many cops patrolling schools, which I think we also all agree with.

    The prose style is offensive but the policy prescriptions not so much.

  18. Number 6,

    Well it was teh intertube variety of asskicking I invoked . A virtual ass jihad. A faux fanny fatwa, if you will.

    Like Moose’s pebble kicking, only of the ass.

    (No actual asses were harmed during the filming of this picture.)

  19. brotherben:

    Link to the ATF Form 4473

    A conviction on a harrassment or stalking charge would have shown up in the background check, disallowing his purchase of the gun. Questions 12h and 12i would pertain here as well.

    The girl would not have even needed to file charges, simply to get a restraining order against him and the background check would have failed.

    Also, had he ever been “ajudicated mentally defective” he would not have passed the background check.

  20. destijl – the Moose kicks pebbles in intertubz homage to Smacky, as that move is of the Smacky invention! (credit where due!)

    However, I practice ten taint kicks (each leg) every day.

  21. Policy has nothing to do with it. The world revolves around how we “feel.” This evokes painful “feelings” in a Shakespeare style.

    Beware the ides of April. Oh, and take everyone’s guns away so we’ll “feel” safer.

  22. Virtual Ass Jihad. I like. Does it come for the PS1?

  23. That’s funny, ’cause just this morning on NPR Frank Deford said the same thing, except April was “cruel” because the weather stinks this time of year in the northeast. (It was a baseball thing.) Maybe we should just say, “April is the cruelest month for English majors.” Or should that be “engineers”? Sorry.

  24. Making it harder for Barack Obama or thoreau to obtain one of these deadly weapons would do nothing to reduce gun violence.

    Now Dick Cheney, on the other hand…

  25. “Diamond Daryl (?) got shot in Columbus”

    For some reason probably related to the ongoing war on drugs, Guitar Player’s monthly column during the 90’s was attributed to “Diamond” Darrell rather than “Dimebag Darrell”. Apparently drug use is spread by nicknames. I hope the unfortunately named (and untalented) Shooter Jennings isn’t informed of this.

  26. You know what’s great about April? Warm weather without the summer mosquitos.

    Not in Chicago….What is this “warm weather” you speak of?

  27. When you live in Fairy-Tale Land of the gun lobby and its useful idiots, any month can be the cruelest. Reading the dreck on this blog is a great way to diet.

  28. What crap.

    APRIL IS, indeed, the cruelest month, the month that comes straight out of T.S. Eliot’s wasteland of useless carnage and lost hope; at least for American students in this last decade. For it is the month when the shootings happen.

    The editorial then cites two (2) April school shootings in seven years, and three (3) that happened last October.

    The first lesson is that those who are both mentally disturbed and possessed of feelings of powerlessness have grown increasingly brazen about entering places where they can find the young and unarmed — schools — and exacting bloody revenge.

    We also have such multiple murders in night clubs, churches, courthouses, malls, and offices. Almost all of them locations where concealed carry is prohibited either by state law or venue policy. So, according to the editorial, the only recommended solution is:

    The mounting evidence will lead, we hope, to another long-overdue conversation about the senselessness of our politicians’ catering to a gun culture in this country. There is no question that we would suffer less gun violence and fewer horrific shootings such as these if these deadly weapons were harder to obtain.

    So the solution to multiple shootings is to change the law where they don’t happen to be like the law where they do happen? Right. Just like disarmed Britain where “gun crime” runs rampant. Note that school shootings happen in Canada and Europe as well.

    Meanwhile, don’t blame the schools or the police.

    Furthermore, holding police officers liable for every decision that leads to a death or injury would paralyze law enforcement.

    In the recent mall shooting, cut short when an off-duty officer carrying outside his jurisdiction* interrupted the shooter and contained him until local law could arrive and take him out, the police got all the credit. They must also take responsibility when things go wrong. If any of the rest of us make a decision that leads to death or injury, we are certainly held liable. I haven’t been “paralyzed.”

    *Note: The anti-gun folks, including much of the media, also opposed recent legislation that allows out-of-jurisdiction carrying for LEOs. I also recently read an editorial by a college student horrified that an off-duty law enforcement officer taking a class carried his gun into the classroom.

    These shootings, as horrible as they are, are still rare occurrences — and for the sake of the grieving families at Virginia Tech, we must do all we can to keep them that way.

    Hopefully by making the option available where shootings don’t occur (concealed carry) available to licensed students.

    If the young lady had filed with the cops about the stalking 2 years ago, could he have legally purchased the guns?

    No, as brotherben noted either a domestic violence misdemeanor or a restraining order would have halted the sale of both handguns. And that’s Federal not Virginia law.

  29. Virtual Ass Jihad. I like. Does it come for the PS1?

    Yeah, but I hear the Wii version is going to be way better from a spanking gameplay standpoint.

  30. I passed through the gun lobby on my way to work. It was lovely. There were bagels!

  31. “Reading the dreck on this blog is a great way to diet.”

    i like my guns coated in trans fats and then deep fried in lard made from black babies who starved to death due to a lack of universal healthcare, global warming and the iraq war.

    see also: crazy.

  32. Cue house to house searches for hand guns by jack booted thugs in 3…2…1….

  33. We are the invisible men
    We are the ubiquitous men
    Typing together
    Keyboards filled with crumbs. 🙁
    Our carpel tunnel syndrome stricken fingers, when
    We blog together
    Are blurred and pointless
    As wind from a duck’s ass
    Or trolls’ bait over broken links
    In our dial-up servers.

  34. “We also have such multiple murders in night clubs, churches, courthouses, malls, and offices. Almost all of them locations where concealed carry is prohibited either by state law or venue policy.”

    I am so sick of this shoddy argument.

    Places of public assembly often ban firearms.

    Places of public assembly are…now, hold onto your hats…places where lots of people are assembled in a confined space.

    Mass killers seek out places with lot of people in a confined space.

    Therefore, mass killers are seeking out places that ban guns.

    Gee whillikers, could there possibly be another reason why people looking to commit a mass murder don’t go to sheep farms?

  35. dhex,

    Delicious. Why did I have that damn hippie burrito for lunch instead of coming over to your place?

  36. [quote]Why did I have that damn hippie burrito for lunch instead of coming over to your place?
    [/quote]

    just hop in the SUV powered by baby blood and we’ll wrap up some stem cells in pot leaves and hundred dollar bills stolen from the proletariat and, uh, shit i don’t even know what the hell i’m parodying anymore…

    joe, you have to admit, they generally don’t attack gun shows and nra meetings. or police stations, no matter how large. i don’t think it’s choice number one on the crazy fuckface checklist, but it probably plays a factor, even outside of their feelings on the matter.

    if only because such rampages would be decidedly short, due to the intersection of objective reality with their particular subjective take on it.

  37. “As wind from a duck’s ass”

    and the pulitzer goes to…

  38. joe, I think I agree with you. Mass killers are not specifically seeking places where guns are prohibited. Public places have lots of people. Mass killers look for high concentrations of people.

    To me, though, this would be more of an argument for allowing guns in public places simply because of their higher level of vulnerability to attack.

  39. dhex,

    “joe, you have to admit, they generally don’t attack gun shows and nra meetings. or police stations, no matter how large.”

    Mass murderers seem to attack places full of large numbers of people who they feel have, as a group, rejected them.

    There have been disgruntled-employee-type shootings and murder suicides in police stations.

  40. My father was a manager and at one of the office’s he managed there was a particularly problem employee. The employee was friends with the nut who shot up a post office in Oklahoma and used to tell anyone who bothered to ask him to do anything or criticize his work, “you know I could just come in here in shoot everyone like my friend if I wanted to”. It was union shop so it was nearly impossible to fire someone even an obvious nutcase like this. He made the mistake telling my father his stock line to which father without missing a beast responded that he always kept a gun in his car and that if the guy ever wanted to take a shot at him he better make it a really good one. The guy never gave my father any problems again.

    No of course that guy to my knowledge never actually shot anyone and was basically a crank. But I think there is something to the idea that these mass killings don’t occur where people are armed. The whole point is to take your revenge by shooting people who can’t fight back. Indeed, most of these guys kill themselves when the police show up or someone confronts them with a gun. I really think that if a decent percentage of the population were armed, say 10%, these kind of big killings would not occur. It doesn’t take much to stop these guys.

  41. John,

    Knowing that there are armed people in a place is quite different from knowing that the law allows people to be armed.

    Your father’s nutcase employee knew the latter when he was mouthing off.

    Having and advertising an armed response is quite a bit different than hoping the killer thinks there might be a gun somewhere.

    “The whole point is to take your revenge by shooting people who can’t fight back.” The suicide is almost always the point from the beginning, and suicide by cop is often the desired outcome. These acts are elaborate suicides, by guys looking to “take a bunch of people with me.”

  42. Crazy people attack police stations.

    here is the first example that came up on the GOOGLE search:

    http://wjz.com/topstories/local_story_128164948.html

    oh, yeah, and since I am the “bumped guns” guy, here is a story for you:

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_350823.html

  43. All your filters are belong to us.

    “Dave W. | April 18, 2007, 1:44pm | #

    Crazy people attack police stations.

    here is the first example that came up on the GOOGLE search:

    http://wjz.com/topstories/local_story_128164948.html

    oh, yeah, and since I am the “bumped guns” guy, here is a story for you:

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_350823.html

  44. I also think that story about the gun show is instructive because it demonstrates how tort liability and insurance concerns can lead to rational enhancements on gun safety.

    In the story, the government isn’t banning the gun show. Rather, the real estate marketplace is punishing them and sending a strong message out to all the other gun shows that meet at nice buildings.

    HnR is very much into the “hey look at the gun banners” mentality, but there are other , more productive avenues for reform — some even involving “free markets.”

  45. time for metal school.

    DIAMOND darrell was his original nickname. (it fit better when pantera was in their glam phase) and he was still credited as Diamond Darrell on cowboys from hell.

    the end.

  46. I just wanted the links he provided to be visible, thoreau.

  47. A quick IP address check shows that our alleged “Gun Widow” usually posts her trollings under male names — “Edward,” “Alan,” “Dan,” “Brady,” etc. I guess the loss of her husband must have driven her to transsexuality.

  48. And here in Waco, tomorrow is the 14th anniversary of the tragic fiery end of the Branch Davidians, they whose right to keep and bear firearms drew the outsize attention of BATF and Ms. Reno. The April killing road runs both ways I guess.

  49. The American Civil War (625,000 dead) started – and finished – in April.

  50. Jesse Walker: 1
    Troll: Zuh-eeeroh.

  51. April has been a pretty good month to me. It seems every time I get a new job or great income opportunity, it’s right around this time of year.

    I love Spring…time for growth…both in nature and in my bank account!! 🙂

  52. Dave W., you’re awesome.

    Can I have your baby?

  53. joe-

    In regard to the gun show article, I want to know what idiot brought it in loaded for exhibit, and what idiot put his finger on the trigger without first verifying that it is unloaded (but you still treat it as loaded anyway, of course) and pointing it in a safe direction. There’s nothing wrong with testing the trigger after verifying that it’s unloaded and pointing it in a safe direction.

    Not sure what that article proves.

  54. “Mass murderers seem to attack places full of large numbers of people who they feel have, as a group, rejected them.”

    and from reading a lot of these stories, they often seem to tell friends all kinds of shit beforehand.

    maybe that’s the key? if your friend is a little weird and keeps talking about revenge…

    then again, that indicts every goth from here to santa fe.

  55. Damn, that’s some bad writing. If Seung Cho hadn’t gone ape shit, he would have had a good chance to write for the Chronicle.

  56. time for metal school.

    DIAMOND darrell was his original nickname.

    I hereby revoke my ill conceived virtual ass jihad / faux fanny fatwa on Allen.

    No one shall despoil Allen’s virtual tush under penalty of virtual death!

    Praise be to Abba.

  57. The article reminds me of the time Lisa was over at Nelson’s house, and in his room, he had a poster that said “Nuke the Whales”. When asked by Lisa what that was about, he said “Gotta nuke somethin’!”

    To paraphrase, I can see the Chronicle’s editors sitting around, laying this pointless tripe to paper…and when some clerical intern reads it and asks what the hell the point of it is, they all say, “Gotta write somethin’!”

    If you have nothing to add (and they obviously don’t), just shut the fuck up and let people grieve without your BS further infecting the already horrid cesspool of media commentary and second-guessing.

  58. Then, the article said that police should not be held liable in tort, which I think we all agree with.

    Not in this forum, bub.

    Making it harder for mentally disturbed college students to obtain them, on the other hand, might.

    So, joe, are you proposing a national database of mental health records, which can be checked by retailers, law enforcement, and others with an interest in this issue?

  59. In regard to the gun show article, I want to know what idiot brought it in loaded for exhibit

    The article doesn’t say that he touched the trigger, but you may well be correct about that.

    The idiot who brought it it was the idiot who wanted to come into the show to set up his display and looked for the guy at the gate who checks that all the guns truly are unloaded before the displays are set up. You know, the guy who makes sure that you are not bringing in ammo for the guns, so you don’t load up at the show.

    After looking around a bit, the idiot noticed that nobody was at the gate checking for this. So he walked right in and set up his display.

    What I would like to know is what idiot it was that thought they didn’t need somebody at the gate, inspecting the exhibitors as they were coming in to set up their displays. That is the idiot whose fault it is that they don’t get to meet at the expo mart anymore.

    the silver lining is that other idiots in charge of other gun shows are now less likely to repeat that idiots mistake. And all without any gov’t intervention!

  60. Places of public assembly often ban firearms. Places of public assembly are…now, hold onto your hats…places where lots of people are assembled in a confined space. Mass killers seek out places with lot of people in a confined space. Therefore, mass killers are seeking out places that ban guns.

    Excellent point to explain part of the trend. Except that where there is a choice the trend still holds. The recent mall and church shootings were both in the minority of states (10) where carry is illegal or restricted.

    Carrying in a mall or church in Texas is legal, as in many states. Few incidents. The man who shot up the Jewish day care center didn’t pick one where he lived, in Washington (shall-issue), he went to California (restricted carry). The Luby’s shooting in Texas was before concealed carry passed.

    There are numerous places of public assembly where concealed carry is not restricted, and they are seldom the venue selected for a multiple murder.

  61. “joe, you have to admit, they generally don’t attack gun shows and nra meetings. or police stations, no matter how large.”

    Mass murderers seem to attack places full of large numbers of people who they feel have, as a group, rejected them.

    The conclusion is clear: People must rarely feel rejected at NRA conventions and gun shows. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!

    There have been disgruntled-employee-type shootings and murder suicides in police stations.

    It seems to me that they are relatively rare, though. I can’t remember the last time a shooting in a police station dominated the news and sparked calls for more gun control.

    Maybe people don’t shoot up police stations very often because, as a rule, they feel welcome and accepted there.

    Finally, I do vaguely recall (circa 1995-2000) reading in my local paper about a guy who went on a shooting rampage in a firing range.

    Apparently the shooter followed the gun-controllers’ logic that (1) a place where a lot of people have guns would be a great place to have a shooting massacre (i.e., he tried to turn a shooting gallery into the oft-said “literal shooting gallery”), and that (2) intended victims would not be able to defend themselves effectively against a mad shooter by using their own guns.

    Pertinent point 1: The types of shooting rampages don’t occur in firing ranges very often.

    Pertinent point 2: It was a very, very short rampage.

    I’m afraid I’m foggy on details after all this time. I believe the shooter was taken alive. Unfortunately, so far I have had no luck finding an account of this incident on the Intertubes. (Googling +shooting +”firing range” turns up an awful lot of irrelevant results. It’s especially hard to find online references to a little-reported incident that occured during the infancy of the ‘tubes. And the incident did indeed receive very little coverage — one small p. 3 article in my local paper is all that I can recall.)

  62. Should have put a question mark after this:

    “Maybe people don’t shoot up police stations very often because, as a rule, they feel welcome and accepted there?”

  63. This one was last week Stevo. Lasted a lot longer than I would have imagined.

  64. “The conclusion is clear: People must rarely feel rejected at NRA conventions and gun shows. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!”

    Given the bagfulls of shwag I got at the NRA convention in St. Louis last week, I have to agree.

  65. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!

    I’ve never seen anyone made to feel unwelcome at a gun show.

    The fact that ‘out’ gay Pink Pistols activists spend their day at a gun show chatting with blue-collar and redneck types not generally known for being accepting of teh gay should tell you something.

  66. I even got some stickers for joe.

    One of them says “Eley”
    Another says “SureFire”
    Yet another is emblazoned with the Steyr logo.
    HK was passing out lapel pin thingies.

  67. Stevo, there’s also this one.

  68. The conclusion is clear: People must rarely feel rejected at NRA conventions and gun shows. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!

    Not for this cowpoke:

    https://www.reason.com/blog/show/119708.html#682869

  69. Making it harder for mentally disturbed college students to obtain them, on the other hand, might.

    I’m all with ya, joe. But my definition of a mentally disturbed college student might differ from yours.

    *ducks*

    Oh, no need to respond. I’m just trying to lighten the mood. Now back to our regularly scheduled frownfest.

  70. dammit, Paul. Typical of you. Always casting the wide net.

    /kicks self in taint

  71. RC

    It’s been days now, and you keep doing the same stupid trick. I’m going to tell you this one. More. Time.

    If you have to ask me what I’m proposing, it’s because I’m NOT PROPOSING ANYTHING. If I am proposing something, don’t worry, I’ll make it nice and clear for you. Until then, stop asking me for proposals.

    Some of us actually try to figure out a problem without a solution in mind.

    Christ. How about asking “Is that true?” instead of “Could that lead someone to draw a conclusion contrary to my political beliefs?”

  72. “Carrying in a mall or church in Texas is legal, as in many states. Few incidents.”

    There are few incidents, period, LarryA.

  73. Stevo,

    “It seems to me that they are relatively rare, though. I can’t remember the last time a shooting in a police station dominated the news and sparked calls for more gun control.”

    Feelings, nothing more than feelings. It feels to me that most of these mass murders occur in states with high levels of gun ownership. At least the ones that stick in my mind.

    “The conclusion is clear: People must rarely feel rejected at NRA conventions and gun shows. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!”

    People with an attachment to firearms, anyway.

  74. “/kicks self in taint”

    ouch!

  75. Don’t worry, mediageek, it’s a virtual self-taint kick, not a meatspace self-taint kick.

    (Whatever happened to “meatspace?”)

    (Special to Mr. Show geeks:

    It’s insane, this guy’s taint!)

  76. “Diamond Daryl (?) got shot in Columbus”

    I clicked on this story because I was upset that the San Fran fishwrap had so clumsily appropriated the great TS Eliot, but now I’m more pissed off about the legendary “Dimebag” Darryl Abbott being misidentified. At least the poster threw in the question mark…

  77. mediageek | April 18, 2007, 3:41pm | #

    Stevo, there’s also this one.

    Interesting. In Florida it’s illegal to bring a loaded gun into a gun store.

  78. If you have to ask me what I’m proposing, it’s because I’m NOT PROPOSING ANYTHING. If I am proposing something, don’t worry, I’ll make it nice and clear for you. Until then, stop asking me for proposals.

    Whatever you say, joe.

    I have to say, though, that its a real fine line between saying (as you did)that “Making it harder for mentally disturbed college students to obtain [guns] . . . might reduce [gun violence]” and proposing (as you clearly did not) that we make it harder for mentally disturbed college students to obtain guns in order reduce gun violence.

    The nuance escaped me first time through, but I see it now. My apologies.

    In the future, I’ll keep in mind that you are just tossing off pointless observations with no intention of pursuing their logical implications.

  79. IB: still, that’s a terrific story MG linked to!

    re: Stevo’s “they’re a welcoming bunch” – I ran into a group in airport that was off to a gun convention – we had a terrific conversation. Very friendly (and apolitical (!) bunch!).

  80. Yes, a national mental health registry is such a logical – no, I’d say “unavoidable” – conclusion to the thought that it would make sense to reduce the availability of guns to crazy people.

    If you’re, you know, more interested in shutting down politically dangerous discussion than mulling over ideas and trying to figure out the truth.

    Anyway, I think the Federal Mental Health Registry should be staffed by shark/human chimeras, authorized to eat suspicious looking gun owners on sight. Why? Because it sounds pretty scary, doesn’t it?

  81. “Anyway, I think the Federal Mental Health Registry should be staffed by shark/human chimeras,”

    with laser beams on their heads????

    please? pretty please?????

  82. This is the second thread today with the word “chimera” making an appearance.

  83. The conclusion is clear: People must rarely feel rejected at NRA conventions and gun shows. Not only is “an armed society a polite society,” it’s a friendly, welcoming society!

    Not for this cowpoke:

    https://www.reason.com/blog/show/119708.html#682869

    Dave, you must have been wearing your “I Am a Lawyer” T-shirt.

    joe, it’s not my fault the MSM is suppressing and downplaying these stories of police-station shootings.

    Even Google is in on it:

    +shooting +”police station” = 1 million hits.

    +shooting +school = 25.9 million hits.

  84. What will be done about this epidemic of police station shootings?!

    Won’t someone think of the little police children?!

  85. The shark/human chimeras with laser beams on their heads must also have invisible yellow force fields.

    Kevin
    Sector 2814

  86. Yes, a national mental health registry is such a logical – no, I’d say “unavoidable” – conclusion to the thought that it would make sense to reduce the availability of guns to crazy people.

    Well, how exactly do you think one can achieve the latter without the former?

  87. dhex
    while smoking a Lucky, and drinking shine at the cock fight…

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