For Once Hillary Clinton Is Right!

Andrew von Eschenbach was nominated today by President Bush to head the Food and Drug Administration. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) have vowed to block his confirmation until the FDA decides one way or the other on the over-the-counter status of the Plan B emergency contraceptive. Last year, the two removed their objections and allowed Lester Crawford to be confirmed after the Bush administration promised that a decision would be made. Instead, the administration lied and Crawford further delayed the decision.

By the way, if the FDA decides against allowing Plan B to be sold over the counter, Eschenbach's confirmation should go down in flames.

Comments

[Reason Shamrock Girl]

Plan B! That's what the nuns called the beer solution. You mean it doesn't work? Is that why they told us not to try it. I shoulda listened.

[smacky]

I agree with Ron Bailey wholeheartedly.

[Jaybird]

Over the counter?

As in guys could buy it without a prescription?

Yeah, that won't lead to issues.

[madpad]

For ONCE in the past 6 years, a democrat is actually playing politics in a way that may actually accomplish something.

I'm no big fan of Hillary, but if it takes her to get a bunch a fat, lazy old democratic men off their dumb asses...no, wait.That's expectiing way too much. Sorry for that. Carry on.

[jp]

I thought he was an orchestra conductor or something.

[linguist]

Jaybird...interesting point.

[joshua corning]

is it still ok to hate Patty Murray (D-Wash.) for everything else she does?

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

Hillary is never right. In this case she's wrong because she wants the gov't to go out its way, yet again, to provide women with more "choice" while ignoring the fact that, by law only, laws which she supports whole-heartedly, men have no such choices.

As in guys could buy it without a prescription?
Yeah, that won't lead to issues.

Interesting idea. If it becomes OTC (as all drugs should be), I bet they'll have some provision to prevent men from buying it, probably similar to the shiny new cold-medicine restrictions.

[joshua corning]

hmm i wonder when i will be able to buy anti-biotics over the counter as well as albuterol for asthma and some fat burning harmones...why do pregnent women get all the breaks?

[Jake]

>As in guys could buy it without a prescription?
>Yeah, that won't lead to issues.

Yeah, what's wrong with the old tried and true method just punching her in the stomach repeatedly?

[Jaybird]

I understand why "they" want Sudafed available only if you ask the customer service desk or the pharmacist first.

I think it's stupid, and not helpful, but I understand why they are doing that.

But when it comes to Plan B... I can certainly see reasons that people might want this to have a little more oversight than "available over the counter".

"You're what? No, no, no! That's great! Let's drink a toast!"

[smacky]

Over the counter?

As in guys could buy it without a prescription?

Yeah, that won't lead to issues.

Jaybird,

So what's your point? Keep it banned so that we can safeguard against any possible incident that might occur in the future? That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me. Poor argument on your part: "Oh, no! Issues! Even worse, the possibility of Unforseeable Issues!"

[smacky]

By the way, I should clarify: when I said "banned" I meant keep as much political red tape around it as possible so as to make it virtually unavailable, as it currently is.

[joshua corning]

By the way, I should clarify: when I said "banned" I meant keep as much political red tape around it as possible so as to make it virtually unavailable, as it currently is.

so what is the real situation? Can women get the drug through a perscription right now? Can they get it if they think they might get pregnant?

[Sandy]

I wholeheartedly agree with smacky.

[Jaybird]

I'm not saying that the alternative to having it sold over the counter is banning it, Smacky.

I don't think that it should be banned at all.

I'm not sure that it should be as available to the public as, say, Froot Loops.

Maybe it should be made as available as something between Sudafed and Antibiotics.

[James Feldman]

Jaybird: Are you planning on naming the issues, or the reason for the need for greater oversight?

[anonymous coward]

I'm pretty sure that Plan B would be ineffective at ending a pregnancy that's far enough along that a woman can test positive for being with child. So even though that objection sounds good, I don't think it has any basis in reality.

[Phil]

n this case she's wrong because she wants the gov't to go out its way, yet again, to provide women with more "choice" while ignoring the fact that, by law only, laws which she supports whole-heartedly, men have no such choices.

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to choose to buy a condom everywhere Plan B is sold, you fuckin' moron.

[fyodor]

James Feldman,

I think the point that everyone is suppposed to understand is that guys could force or trick a woman into taking the morning after pill. Of course, people could misuse all sorts of things that are a lot worse to misuse. I agree with Smacky, it's a pathetic and ridiculous argument, even if she meant "restrict" when she said "ban" (as her clarification demonstrates).

[Scott]

Jaybird is using the same logic that gun control advocates have used to have "common sense" gun control laws passed to make it difficult for law abiding citizens to buy or carry firearms. If a legal product can be dangerous if used by a criminal in an improper manner, then it is just too dangerous for the average citizen to have access to. A committed scumbag would just find another way to obtain the drugs. This is the same twisted logic that lets people really believe that a murderous criminal will be unwilling or unable to obtain a firearm if there were only tougher gun laws.

[mac]

It's not that religious and social conservatives are against Plan B, it's that the Republicans are caving in to the herbal medicine lobby, who want to shore up pennyroyal sales.

[Kwix]

It's not that religious and social conservatives are against Plan B, it's that the Republicans are caving in to the herbal medicine lobby, who want to shore up pennyroyal sales.

And the quote of the day is....

[James Feldman]

fyodor:

I suppose that it would be just as easy for a man to poke holes in a condom and trick a woman into getting pregnant. Of course, tricking a woman into pregnancy is less bad than tricking a woman out of one, I suppose.

[dagny]

when I said "banned" I meant keep as much political red tape around it as possible so as to make it virtually unavailable, as it currently is.

I'm all for having Plan B OTC, but I hardly think it's "virtually unavailable" now. You can walk into any Planned Parenthood now, give them about thirty bucks, and get your Plan B.

[Eddy]

Just more proof that the only Dems currently in office with balls are women. Which, coincidently explains the whole Monica dustup.

Go Hilla..urp! Whew, don't want to say that so soon after dinner.

[Tanya]

If Plan B is the same thing as the morning after pill, you have only 72 hours to take it for it to be effective. Plus, the side effects are pretty nasty ... you get sick, tired and endure a premature, long period. If boyfriends decide to slip their girlfriend Plan B, she'll probably know it.

[burty man]

This is great news if you have not seen it

Coalition forces launched the largest air assault in Iraq since U.S. forces invaded that country in 2003

[me]

I can't believe people are arguing against OTC status because somebody could slip it into somebody's drink. There are and always will be lots of harmful things you can slip into somebody's drink. Hell, you could slip peanut dust into somebody's drink who is allergic to peanuts. I'm pretty sure the criminal justice system is equipped to deal with this scenario. And of course men should be able to buy it; and women should be able to buy condoms and men should be able to buy tampons...

[fyodor]

I couldn't have said it better than "me"!! 🙂

James Feldman, yeah, one on hand that could be seen as a matter of perspective, but on the other, if the guy doesn't want the kid and the woman does, that doesn't quite seem like a good situation for the kid to be born into, anyway.

[dhex]

"men have no such choices."

&&multiple choice test&&

a) DON'T JIZZ IN FERTILE WOMAN
b) JIZZ IN FERTILE WOMAN

choice a - the primest of beefy cuts - is a far better choice than b.

[jb]

Now what will they do if people figure out how to make crystal meth out of Plan B?

[Jaybird]

If it's true that Plan B won't work if the female is far enough along to be able to tell whether she's pregnant, hey, that's great. I withdraw my objection.

However, I tend to think that there will be a lot of Unintended Consequences for making this drug OTC.

A while back they did a thing on the whole "parental notification laws" thing wrt abortion and found that a surprising chunk of the parents notified were, in fact, the ones pushing their daughters to get an abortion in the first place. Hey, who can blame them? The Boomers don't want to be parents to their whore of a daughter's offspring. Abortion isn't a big deal, get one, we can all get back to normal!

The woman's "authentic yes" won't be made any easier to differentiate from the "yes" imposed upon her by the Patriarchy by making this drug available OTC, you know.

Sure, make it legal. Make it available in vending machines at the local Wal-Mart.

And then be surprised when it's men who benefit from this far more than women do.

But I ramble.

[dbcooper]

>And then be surprised when it's men who benefit from this far more than women do.

Err, what?

>But I ramble.

Indeed you do.

[Jersey McJones]

The sleazy cons are against Plan B OTC because it muzzles the abortion debate and makes it more private - as it always should have been. Plan B will reduce abortions in general (unless of course you think that keeping a zygote from attaching to the uterus is "abortion") and will obfusgate the actual (or see above) "abortion" numbers, further reducing reported numbers. This will essentially kill the abortion debate. Abortion, along with homosexuality, gun "control," and religion, is a prime motivator of the common rabble of the American Right. By stifling the abortion debate, the GOP would lose a fat juicy carrot with which to lead the jackasses that are their constituency.

Plan B should be OTC and available to all. Period. Anything less is child abuse and Taliban-esque tyranny over women.

JMJ

[R C Dean]

Sorry, I blacked out when I saw the headline. What is this all about?

[Jaybird]

Dbcooper, who do you think benefitted the most from abortion becoming legal?

Women?

I don't really think so. It's another burden that they get to carry that men don't. (Note: This is not me saying that abortion should be made illegal. Hell, I think it should be legal up until the moment of crowning for reasons up to and including "I suspect I won't like the kid's eye color".)

I don't pretend that it's an unalloyed win for women, though. It's something that really sucks and it's legalization has resulted in more crap being dumped on women and less on men than before.

Case in point: The whole stupid "men's right to choose" movement.

[Jaybird]

"Plan B should be OTC and available to all. Period. Anything less is child abuse and Taliban-esque tyranny over women."

It must be nice to finally have found a position where no other possible viewpoint has any reasonable footing whatsoever.

[Mike]

It's something that really sucks and it's legalization has resulted in more crap being dumped on women and less on men than before.

It what way does having another choice in a shitty situation make things *worse*? Your "abortion is bad for women" claim makes no sense to me.

[dbcooper]

Umm, I think you're going to have to explain what this "dumping of crap on women" is MacDworkin, then explain why whether "women have benefitted the most" has any relevance what so ever.

In the meantime I'll keep working on away to carry children in my abdomen.

[Jersey McJones]

Jaybird, well... make an argument.

JMJ

[Jaybird]

One of the current "feminism" theories is not that they are "pro-abortion" or "anti-life" or what have you. They are for the Woman's "Authentic Yes or No".

If a woman wants to spend her days with a good man, cleaning house, raising babies, and watching her stories, then that's perfectly fine! So long as that's what the woman authentically wants to do.

If a woman wants to become a Captain of Industry and run a company and break through the glass ceiling and put in 65 hours a week, then that's perfectly fine! So long as that's what the woman authentically wants to do.

The problem comes up when the argument is made that the only women who would want to be homemakers suffer from The Patriarchy's Imposed False Consciousness And Real Women Want To Be Captains Of Industry, then that pretty much shuts out a whole bunch of Authentic Yeses when it comes to the Homemaker Question.

We also see this with Abortion. People who want to, say, restrict partial birth abortions except in cases where the Mother's life is in danger are obviously just trying to get the camel's nose in the tent and they want to take us back to the 1950's!!! FATHER DOES NOT KNOW BEST WHEN HE'S MOLESTING HIS DAUGHTERS WHO SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE OPTION OF ABORTION!!!!

And we see it above. I have a handful of qualms about selling Plan B over the counter. Apparently, I qualify as a practitioner of "child abuse and Taliban-esque tyranny over women".

Much like was found with parental notification (namely that it was the parents pushing for the abortion in a disproportionate number of cases), I suspect that making Plan B as readily available as Pop-Tarts will not result in more "Authentic" yeses or nos.

Again: I am pro-choice up until the moment of crowning for stupid and trivial reasons. I believe that Plan B should be made available to the public.

I just have qualms and I wonder if maybe it should be made as available as, say, Sudafed (rather than as available as Skittles).

[Jersey McJones]

Jaybird,

I hear you, but I don't quite follow. Sudafed went behind the counter in order to stymie illegal meth production. What exactly is your qualm with OTC Plan B? And why would you assert that Parental Notification laws are redundant because it turns out most parents want the abortions? Are rights only for large groups of people? And what is more "yes" or "no" than determining whether to be pregnant?

I'm a little lost here...

JMJ

[The Real Bill]

Note: This is not me saying that abortion should be made illegal. Hell, I think it should be legal up until the moment of crowning for reasons up to and including "I suspect I won't like the kid's eye color

Always nice to know who's in favor of infanticide.

Plan B is nothing but an extra strong birth control pill.

[Jaybird]

I know why Sudafed went behind the counter. It's still available for anyone who wants it. They just have to walk up to the counter and ask for it (My wife (PBUH) did this just the other day).

I'm not asserting that Parental Notification Laws are redundant. I'm asserting that they had massively incorrect assumptions behind them. (They assumed, for example, that the parents would be strong parental units to help the poor girl through this troubled time and not the ones saying "get that fetus outta here!")

Are rights only for large groups of people? Of course not. I wonder if making Plan B OTC will result in more rights for individuals. I'm more wary of the Unintended Consequences.

What exactly is my qualm with Plan B OTC?
The first thing I thought of was "Roofies Cocktail Mit Plan B". I suppose I've got to have more faith in my fellow man than that...

[Adriana]

Available, yes. Over the counter... I understand that the side effects can be quite severe. A woman buying it for herself can understand the risks, and in any case it is her choice.

A guy giving it to a woman unawares can be liable if she gets a bad reaction. Same thing as if he gave her an aspirin without her knowledge, and she had a bleeding ulcer that he knew nothing about... I think that the term would be poisoning...