Flying the Frugal Skies, One Year Later

A year ago, I wrote about the proliferation of low-cost airlines in Europe, which is a direct result of the fact that the European Union, at this point in history, is more serious about deregulating the airline industry than the United States.

The article supposed that there might be a budget-airline contraction due to the soaring cost of fuel, but my anecdotal history of the past month suggests that the market there is still weighted heavily toward the consumer. Flying on heavy-traffic days during the high holiday season, I went from London to Prague to Geneva to Budapest back to London for around $350 total, after taxes. This included a voyage on a Swiss airline called Flybaboo, on a tiny plane which was given the personality of a German shepherd, duly named "tofu."

The airport in Prague is about 95 times larger than it was a decade ago; the government of Hungary just sold 75 percent of Budapest's Ferihegy International Airport to BAA for $2.2 billion, and easyJet terminals in Western Europe are crawling with various Slavs.

So how's deregulation coming along in the U.S.? Badly. Congress is trying to strangle Dept. of Transportation liberalization in the crib, keeping alive the Depression-era nonsense of preventing furriners from owning even 49% of an American airline … and "open skies" negotiation with the EU is at a standstill. Do a Google News search on "low-cost airlines" … not much action on this side of the pond.

But all is not lost, Europhobes! The EU Court just upheld a terrible new law doubling the Euro-penalty on airlines who bump their passengers (to 600 Euros). Still, it'd be nice to see more than two or three major low-cost airlines in America, or a single stinkin' L.A.-Portland route for under $100, before I die.

Comments

[Jennifer]

The EU Court just upheld a terrible new law doubling the Euro-penalty on airlines who bump their passengers (to 600 Euros).

I have no problem with this, and wish we'd do something similar here. We can all think of examples of emergency situations where passengers might legitimately have to be bumped to make room for some vital something else, but most such instances are cases where the airline deliberately booked more people than it had room for.

This is especially odious when you consider that in most cases a passenger who cancels at the last minute gets no refund anyway, so it's not even as though overbooking is something the airlines have to do to protect themselves from potentially making a flight at a loss.

[Eric the .5b]

I don't know the legalities or contractualities (is that a word?) of passenger-bumping, but it always struck me as screwy.

[Eric the .5b]

And don't worry, Matt. Europeans will come to their senses when they realize nasty American-style hyper-liberalism is infecting their airways. 😉

[Matt Welch]

Jennifer -- I become easily enraged at airline jerkery, but 600 Euros (*plus* hotel, *plus* other stuff) for having a 30-Euro RyanAir flight cancelled seems ridiculously high.

[Jennifer]

I become easily enraged at airline jerkery, but 600 Euros (*plus* hotel, *plus* other stuff) for having a 30-Euro RyanAir flight cancelled seems ridiculously high.

So if I lose a good chunk of my vacation, or the chance to interview for my dream job, or a funeral, or another similarly important thing that can often compel people to fly, the 30 Euros I paid is the issue?

Of course this isn't always (maybe not even usually) the case, but it happens often enough that the airlines shouldn't act under the assumption that missing a flight is simply a minor inconvenience.

Either make them find another way for me to get to my destination soon, or make them pay.

(I'd be willing to compromise a bit in legitimate emergency situations, however.)

[Jennifer]

Come to think of it--why is this not fraud? If I have 200 seats and I sell 250 tickets, why is this not considered fraudulent?

By the way, I am producing this great Broadway play, called Springtime for Hitler. If you're looking for a smart investment, I'll sell you a fifty-percent stake in it.

[Hakluyt]

Jennifer,

Well, if the contract clearly states that is what they are doing (and airline tickets do state that) then it isn't fraud.

[joe]

"Flying on heavy-traffic days during the high holiday season, I went from London to Prague to Geneva to Budapest back to London for around $350 total, after taxes."

Well, yeah, if you don't insist on a direct flight...;-)

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

...the European Union ... is more serious about deregulating the airline industry than the United States.

I wish the EU *would* deregulate the US!

[Homer J. Simpson]

I'll deregulate YOU!

[Kwix]

Jennifer,
If the airline industry here was completely deregulated I imagine the ads would look something like this:

"Fly BounceAir. We don't guarantee that you will have a seat, but we guarantee the lowest price!"

"Fly OkayAir. We don't have the lowest prices, but we guarantee you a seat!"

Then you could pick your poision, cheap but sketchy or pricy and good. There would be a market for a foreign investor to come in with an affordable, quality airline and really clean up(economically that is).

[Lost_In_Translation]

Kwix,

Don't forget "PickaCard Air" where you pay $5 and you could win a seat, but more than not the guy that's winning all the seats is the dealer's brother.

[JD]

I don't want to sound like a huge elitist (oh, hell, yes I do), but I'm not that crazy about the whole "low-cost airfares" thing. Confucius say, "Man who care about nothing but price usually get what he pay for" and that's as true for airfares as anything else. Don't get me wrong, I definitely see the value of cheap flights, and I'm not suggesting that only the rich should ever get to see their relatives in the old country, or anything like that. But airplanes are already enough like flying cattle cars as it is. A heavy focus on price isn't likely to improve the flying experience.

I am torn between wanting to fly first-class every time I fly, even if it does cost me much more, because I hate flying so much, and hating airlines too much to want to give them any more of my money, so maybe I'm part of the problem. The price differential is just unreal, though.

[Lost_In_Translation]

JD,

Of course you get what you pay for, thats why I'd leave during off days at odd hours to fly Ryan Air when I was in Europe. Sure its like a flying greyhound bus, but a two hour flight for 60 euros roundtrip from Brussels to Glasgow is better than a 20 hour train ride (yes, that's how long the train ride was, my friend took the train, I flew). But I certainly wasn't going to pay 200 euro to go there.

[EZE]

While I clearly would not support the foreign ownership restrictions, I don't think that there is a lack of low-cost carriers in the US. Southwest invented the paradigm for pete's sake; furthermore, Independence just decided to liquidate. And oh I just found a fun-fare on Southwest for $99 from LA to Portland on March 13th. Finally, when comparing prices here to there, it is also helpful to remember that the US is bigger; LAX to PDX is almost 1,000 miles whereas PRG to AMS is about half that distance. Given that fuel is the biggest cost (I believe barely above labor), it makes sense that the LAX to PDX route might be 2x the cost of PRG to AMS or whatever. If you want to do an analysis, you should look at seat costs per mile flown - that would be a helpful statistic. I am going to venture a guess that the US Carriers are pretty close if not better than the European carriers in terms of providing low cost air service when you look at the question in the appropriate way.

[happyjuggler0]

There is a simple enough market solution (or two)for folks who simply can't be bumped. Airlines can offer a limited number of seats that are bump-free, and charge more for those seats. (The sneaky marketer in me says they should offer discounts for unguaranteed seats, which is simply another way of saying you pay more the guarantee. They can make it 100% of the seats on the flight, or 50% or whatever.

Southwest does not have assigned seats. What they do is your boarding pass is an A B or C, and the A's board first, the B's second, the C's last. Book your ticket online, and you can print out your boarding pass 24 hours ahead of time and get an A easily. Unless you think you're going to get a C then assigned seating is silly. With unassigned seating the folks who really want a certain type of seat (aisle,window, front of plane) seem to manage to get it anyway. I always manage to get an A, and I always pick an aisle seat near the back unless my connecting flight looks like a tight deadline. Why the back? You can form a line at the bathroom. 🙂 This is important if you drink on planes....

[Yakov Smirnov]

In Soviet Russia, airline deregulates you.

[Lost_In_Translation]

I don't know why, but I have a certain joy about flying Southwest. Not only can they efficiently turn around a plane (my dad believes the pilots actually taxi faster than other planes), but everyone on the plane seems pleasat about their situation. Nobody has to stop traffic just to get to their "middle" seat which they'd rather not have anyway. The stewardesses don't have to initiate the awkward conversation with someone who has taken an aisle seat they're not assigned to. Its by far the most pleasant flights I ever get on. Kudos to Southwest.

[Serafina]

I just don't see bumping as much of a problem. I've never been bumped. Granted I fly several times a month so the airlines are nicer to me than the average customer, but I've never been bumped or known anyone who has been bumped involuntarily.

[matt]

Thought this might be an appropriate thread to post this interesting article by bk marcus I saw on the Mises blog the other day about why there are no more sexy stewardesses:

http://mises.org/story/2002

[happyjuggler0]

Nice link matt. I suspect the author is right. I also think there ismore at work though.

For example, considering that unions raise the price for stewardesses (er, flight attendents) above a price that a free market would have set. This would seem to indicate that there is more wiggle room than the author thinks.

There is also the fact that tastes change. Remember (hmmm, I suppose I am dating myself here) all the beer commercials featuring scantily clad female airheads for budweiser et al.? They died with the relative success of the women's movement and the rise of pc.

There is too though, in my opinion. Women, beautiful or otherwise have more employment choices available now than 20 years ago. Many more choices. Therefore their prices are higher than they were before. This fits in well with the end of airline price ceilings.

[moonbiter]

Just a data point: Using one of these low-fare airlines, it cost me about half as much to fly from Cologne to Berlin for New Years than would have to take the train. ?43 vs. ?90.

[Dave W.]

Lack of new competitors in the industry got you down? Deregulation beginning to show dimishing returns in the post-Gipper US?

Never fear! Antitrust is here.

Antitrust law. Making capitalism competive since 1890. Its not just for widgets anymore.

[Jennifer]

Most forms of deregulation make perfect sense, but I still support stiff penalties for airlines who have to bump passengers due to overbooking. If the airlines are selling seats they don't have to sell, they should be penalized for it.

And I'm not impressed by any "oops--you might get bumped" waivers on the tickets; that to me just says "We're allowed to commit fraud and there's nothing you can do about it."

[Rhywun]

If I have 200 seats and I sell 250 tickets, why is this not considered fraudulent?

Hotels do this, too. And if you don't show up fast enough or at all, you pay anyway, *and* they sell your room to someone else too. Dealing with a dozen or so irate, late-arriving guests who had their rooms sold out from under them *every single night* was one of the many reasons I got the hell out of the hotel business at the first opportunity.

[Jennifer]

Rhywun, I'd say then that the hotels should be penalized as well. The (fictional) producers of Springtime for Hitler weren't allowed to sell more stakes in a play than actually existed; hotels and airlines shouldn't be allowed to perpetrate the same fraud without penalty.

(Actually I'd even go further--cash penalties for a certain number of offenses, then criminal penalties after that limit is reached.)

[thoreau]

Jennifer-

I agree. There are some things that are simply fraud no matter how many waivers you put on it.

"Warning: The fact that you give us money and can't get it back doesn't mean we're going to render the promised services. We might fly you there when we promised, or we might just assign you to some other flight. Oh, and items in your luggage are subject to confiscation by the TSA, so don't pack anything valuable. Basically, when you enter the airport you're in a high crime area where we and/or the TSA may rob you. Best part is, it's illegal for you to carry a weapon in this high crime neighborhood!"

"Thank you for flying our friendly skies."

[Warren]

Jennifer,
Do you think the problem could be handled by an insurance market? You could buy insurance that would pay if you are bumped or delayed.

[JMoore]

FWIW...I believe all our problems with air travel, from government regulation to security cock-ups to baggage mishandling to crappy airport design to carrier shenanigans, stem from our collective over-romanticization of air travel. Michael O'Leary (RyanAir chief) once stated, referring to an airplane, "It's a fucking bus!" Think about that for a moment.

It IS a bus, isn't it? OK, it's a very large, complex bus which requires a good deal of training to drive, but it is still just a bus. We all seem to think airplanes, even the ones that just fly from NYC to Washington, are cruise ships. We act differently when travelling by ship than we do when travelling by bus: we expect a ship to be a big deal; we expect a bus to be simple.

Once you take Mr. O'Leary's words to heart, you begin rethinking everything about air travel:

Why all the fuss over baggage?
Why, exactly, do we need flight attendants, especially on short flights?
If every passenger had to walk past the driver, and check his luggage with the driver, would security be better?
Why don't people on Greyhound get bumped?
How much money do airports waste on those fancy jetways?
With so much space in the sky, why does government continue to claim that the skies are crowded?
Do we really need air traffic controllers, or will a series of "road signs" do?
Why can't I use my iPod while taxiing?

Please help me spread the crazy Irishman's wisdom. Tell everyone you know "It's a fucking bus!" And keep telling them until you see that quizzical look come into their eyes--the look that signals they are beginning to ask questions like the ones above.

[Jennifer]

Do you think the problem could be handled by an insurance market? You could buy insurance that would pay if you are bumped or delayed.

I'd oppose that, because it still puts the onus on the victim of the fraud, not the perpetrator.

If you choose to invest in my Broadway play, you can buy insurance in case the play is a failure and you lose money, but you shouldn't be expected to insure yourself against the possibility that I might sell fifty-percent stakes in the play to a hundred different people. If I do that, I've committed a crime.

[Warren]

JMoore,
A plane is not a bus. Jumbo jets falling out of the sky is not comparable to busses going into ditches.

[digamma]

Not only can [Southwest] efficiently turn around a plane (my dad believes the pilots actually taxi faster than other planes),

I don't know about taxiing, but the time from when they reach the gate to when passengers are able to get the hell off is definitely less on Southwest. I'm guessing the other airlines are bound by union rules that make it easy for the jetway workers to slack off.

Why can't I use my iPod while taxiing?

Independence Air let passengers do that. It was awesome. Other airlines say you can't do it until they're at the gate and the door is open, which is total BS. Too bad they went bankrupt.

[MP]

A plane is not a bus. Jumbo jets falling out of the sky is not comparable to busses going into ditches.

From a passenger standpoint, it is a bus. Don't conflate the complexity of the operations side with the user experience.

[downstater]

i'm agreeing with Jennifer on this one.

if i pay money and the airline offers in return that they may or may not have a seat for me - have i been offered consideration? isn't this an illusory promise?

(gearing up for law school - is it too obvious?)

[Pro Libertate]

downstater, don't do it!!!

Paid for by the American Bar Association?
We don't need no more stinkin' lawyers.

[Ed]

...the airlines shouldn't act under the assumption that missing a flight is simply a minor inconvenience.

I seriously doubt this attitude is prevalent in the industry as a whole. In fact, in my experience it's almost always the passengers who display an attitude.

[Jennifer]

I seriously doubt this attitude is prevalent in the industry as a whole. In fact, in my experience it's almost always the passengers who display an attitude.

Why shouldn't they have an "attitude," if they paid for a service and then were told at the last minute that they would not be getting what they paid for?

[matt]

Look, if you're told beforehand that you might be bumped to a later flight and you still decide to purchase the ticket then I don't see how it constitutes fraud on the part of the airline. I can understand you being pissed off about it, but as long as there was no misreprestation on the part of the airline it doesn't seem faudulant to me. (And for the record I have yet to be bumped off a flight, but that's probably b/c I fly at off-peak hours most of the time.)

happyjuggler:

"...all the beer commercials featuring scantily clad female airheads for budweiser et al.? They died with the relative success of the women's movement and the rise of pc."

What about the Coors' Twins?

[downstater]

i will do my best to use my new found powers for good. 😉

[Jennifer]

Look, if you're told beforehand that you might be bumped to a later flight and you still decide to purchase the ticket then I don't see how it constitutes fraud on the part of the airline.

I'm saying that airlines shouldn't be allowed to use that "we can be fraudulent" loophole in the first place. Especially considering that almost all bumped flights are the result of overbooking; the airline is selling something it simply does not have.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, this whole discussion illustrates the difference between legality and good business. While I tend to agree that, even with disclosure, the practice of overbooking is questionable as a legal matter, it's definitely a terrible business decision. Jennifer is absolutely correct about how irate (and rightly so) people get when they find out that they ain't going noplace. Buh-bye.

The model for commercial passenger airlines is broken. A lot of that is due to the regulatory mess, but part of it is also due to the expense of flying a plane. Long term, the solution has got to be smaller planes and airlines with a greater regional focus. Eventually, we'll get to personal vehicles for flight (one critical condition precedent for that will be 100% automated flight), but that's a long way off.

[Jennifer]

As I think about it, saying "if you overbook a flight all you have to do is refund the money you charged those who won't fly" is a bit like saying "if you are caught stealing all you have to do is return what you stole." In both cases, the dishonest party has nothing to lose and everything to gain, so what incentive do they have to be honest in the future?

[Pro Libertate]

Check out this discussion of your legal rights when overbooked and bumped off a flight. Apparently, the DOT has a policy on it, which makes it a peachy keen practice 🙂

[thoreau]

So, let's say that in very tiny print a mall posts a small sign in a corner saying "Mall employees with ski masks and guns reserve the right to confiscate your belongings. By entering this mall you consent to these terms. If you call the cops, we'll point out that the mall employees were simply enforcing the terms of a contract. We have a kick ass legal team, and we'll totally shred you in court. Enjoy your shopping experience!"

[matt]

Jennifer:

A key part of fraud is deception. If you know that the airline is overbooking flights and tells you there is a chance you will be bumped from you scheduled flight, how are they deceiving you? I think, like Pro Libertate says, it's just a shitty business practice that they can get away with since they are operating in a quasi-cartelized industry.

[MP]

So, let's say that in very tiny print a mall posts a small sign in a corner saying

A better comparison would be to a software EULA.

[Pro Libertate]

The truth is, everyone screws everyone else. Read a credit card or loan agreement sometime. Worse yet, peruse a software license! I agreed to what?

Typical of heavily regulated industries, 75% of the regulations are in place to create barriers to entry (for new, smaller competitors) and to protect the entrenched players from lawsuits or other threats. It's one of the things that amuses me when leftists (in particular, though rightists do this, too, on occasion) say that a big government is necessary to protect the "little guy". If by "protect" they mean "crush", then I agree. A lot of the corporate authority they complain about is far worse due to all of the meddling the government does. True consumer protection is debatable, but protectionism is not.

[Jennifer]

Matt, as I've said before, my complaint isn't even so much with the bumping (since there are some legitimate emergency justifications for it), but the fact that the airlines are selling something they do not have. This is still fraud, even if the law allows them a loophole in which to do it.

It would be another matter if they sold cheap discount "just in case" tickets--"just in case someone cancels at the last minute you get first crack at their seat." But no; the airlines are selling more than they have to sell, and they get to keep any money from cancelled flights, AND they get to potentially screw over any customer who needs to make thier flight, all with no penalty. So I say hooray for the EU law, which will make overbooking too expensive for airlines to do as a matter of course.

[Dave W.]

There are some things that are simply fraud no matter how many waivers you put on it.

Close, T. Try procedural unconscionability. Or, in some cases, substantive.

[MP]

the fact that the airlines are selling something they do not have.

The are selling access rights to an available seat. The access rights are exercisable based on a combination of factors, including the arrival time of the rights holder. They are not selling guaranteed access rights.

[Pat libertarian response]If you don't like it, buy your own plane[/pat]

[nonluddite]

Hmm, I've actually never seen someone forceably bumped. From my experience, the airline "bribes" passengers with free tickets and cash to give up their seat, auction style!

[MikeP]

I don't have too much problem with airlines overbooking seats. It is, after all, a clean application of Coase.

You think you bought a property right to the seat. Well, that's not what they sold you. What they sold you, however -- even after accounting for the hassles and bribing people to take later flights -- is more economically efficient: it better allocates the limited resources to maximize the utility of the participants. The fact that they didn't sell you a property right to the seat is prima facie evidence of this.

[Ed]

If I see Jennifer in my line I'm hoping I get bumped.
But then again, if we got hijacked I'd kinda like to see what she would do.
I'm thinking it would take more than a box cutter and a crazy religion to bring her down.

[zardoz]

Lots to chew on here.

The are selling access rights to an available seat. The access rights are exercisable based on a combination of factors, including the arrival time of the rights holder. They are not selling guaranteed access rights.

Then there should be no non-refundability policy if you try to cancel your reservation or return your ticket. Again, why is the contract a warranty on the part of the consumer but simply a "good faith" statement on the part of the airline? How is that equitable consideration?

In regards to fraud, I'll put it this way: I'm in the mortgage business. If I give a Good Faith to a homebuying customer with fees of $2000, I'm in essence telling them that my fees should be about $2000. If, however, at the closing, my fees are, say, $6,000, without written agreement from the customer, I've committed fraud as defined by every attorney general in the states I'm licensed in. And the buyer may very well have no choice but to close the deal anyway with me or he loses the house (he has a contract with the seller to close escrow by a specific date). That, my friend, will get me an audit from the local AG, a fine, probably at least a suspension of license, and litigation from the consumer. It's bad business, and bad legally.

So, again, why are the airlines allowed to intentionally overpromise and underdeliver, but I am not? They are far more in control of their process and end product than I am.

Hmm, I've actually never seen someone forceably bumped. From my experience, the airline "bribes" passengers with free tickets and cash to give up their seat, auction style!

I had a friend get bumped off a flight at Christmas to see Mom and Dad. Air miles aren't much of a bribe. And my wife used to get bumped off until she racked up enough Diamond Ambassador Executive Gold points to where they address her as "Ma'am".

[JD]

Some good points raised here.

Lost in Translation: At least on the bus or train they don't shoot you in the head for standing up at the wrong time. (Slight exaggeration, but unfortunately only slight.) And yes, Southwest is one of the more tolerable airlines out there.

I'm with Jennifer on the overbooking issue. Selling something you do not have and cannot honor is fraud, IMO. They're not even selling an "access right", since when push comes to shove it turns out to mean diddly-squat, not a right at all, and a right that is not a guaranteed right is just a lottery ticket. Although I have to say, it does mean college students are good for something. Last time my flight was overbooked, there turned out to be a bunch of college students on it, and college students are always happy to be put through the wringer for free stuff, so I got my seat.

JMoore: Interesting thought experiment. The problem, as I see it, is that there are some things which are different between a bus and a place, and these differences often cascade. For example, planes are more expensive to purchase and operate than buses, and airports are a bigger infrastructure investment than a bus stop, so it's mostly going to be larger, richer entities who get into the business. But yes, a lot of the peculiarities of air travel do seem to be due to "it's always been this way".

[Lost_In_Translation]

JMoore,

I think you hit the nail on the head. Planes are no longer a stylish way to travel, they're merely quicker bus systems. That's why I want to pay bus prices and if I get a water in the air, I'm perfectly happy. Most people nowadays know the routine so well, stewards and stewardesses are unneccessary except for beverage dispensing, but I flew Ryan Air and could not care less about not getting a drink for a 2 hour flight. I listened to my music, read my magazine and was quite content despite sitting in an unmovable, vinyl seat that was bright yellow. I think airline that aren't going to allow the seat to adjust more than 5 degrees need to just go with fix seats. It'll save them money and nobody has to worry about getting slightly compressed by the person in front.

[MP]

How is that equitable consideration?

Ahh...the fairness spectre. Whoever said life was fair? Besides, as MikeP pointed out, there are good economic reasons to do this, which thus increase Airline profits and lower consumer costs.

[EZE]

The ticket represents not a promise to deliver a seat at the specified time but rather the airlines option to seat you at that time. It's not fraud if they bump you because they delivered exactly what they promised. It's not fine print. It's stated clearly by most airlines and the practice is common knowledge. It's therefore not equivalent to the good faith mortgage example or any of the other ones. The market has a good solution to this: you can buy a ticket on an airline that does not tend to overbook by as much or you can pay more for a ticket to reduce your odds of being denied boarding. Moreover, frequent travellers are never bumped unless they are a late check-in. You get what you pay for!

Also, I should point out that if a plane is cancelled for a mechanical reason, the airlines generally put you up in hotels and find a way to ultimately get you to your destination. They never promise to deliver you at a certain time.

[EZE]

Some airlines are buses - some try to differentiate based on service. While most people are content to ride a bus if the flight is under 2 hours, look at all the people who pay several thousand clams to fly business class over the pond. Why do they pay? Because the service makes it seem like they are on anything but a bus. Venison and tomato bisque served on china, sleeper suites with dovet covers and privacy screens, attentive service, scalp massages - I don't recall these services on my last ride on the Metro.

[zardoz]

Also, I should point out that if a plane is cancelled for a mechanical reason, the airlines generally put you up in hotels and find a way to ultimately get you to your destination.

Yes, but airlines do not, statistically, cancel due to mechanical reasons; they do it for weather reasons, because FAA guidelines get them off the hook financially. They routinely claim that a weather delay over O'Hare will cause all sorts of problems getting you to Atlanta from Boston, even if you're going there via Charlotte. I learned this the hard way once.

Ahh...the fairness spectre. Whoever said life was fair? Besides, as MikeP pointed out, there are good economic reasons to do this, which thus increase Airline profits and lower consumer costs.

I never asked whether it was fair, which is an ethical question; I asked whether it was equitable, which is a legal consideration. The courts may not decide is much in life is fair, but they see it as they job to decide what is equitable.

[taiko]

My fiancee and I were bumped off a flight leaving from National to Las Vegas 4 years ago due to overbooking. What made it worse was that we were told we were bumped by stand-by passengers because we got there past the cut-off time. We made a stink, but we were basically told about the little writing on the ticket and we had no recourse. The traffic on GW Parkway was horrible due to an accident (we only lived 1/2 an hour away in McLean) and we admittedly got to the terminal with little time to spare (took a cab). They were able to get us to Phoenix on a later flight but as the flight was some 6 hours later, we decided to take a cab back to the house and then back to the airport to catch the later flight. When we got to Phoenix, they told us all the rest of their flights to Vegas were full that day and they couldn't get us there until the next day. We then decided to rent a car and drive to Vegas from Phoenix. Needless to say we were pretty pissed off at the airline and have not used them since (not that they give a shit). We ended up spending money on the rental car and gas (not including the taxi to home and back although I don't really count that as we could have waited at the airport for the 6 hours--but what a pain in the ass!) and did not even get a refund for the Phoenix to Vegas portion of our flight we did not use. Sure, we could've stayed in Phoenix overnight, but then we would have paid for a night in a Vegas hotel that we did not use (the hotel part was a package deal which was pre-paid). All this because they overbooked a flight. Little writing on the ticket or not, this is bullshit. If they want to overbook, they must be clearer on who IS gonna get a seat and who may be bumped. How about selling regular tickets until all seats have been sold and then all other tickets beyond that are stand-by? At least then, you know with a certainty that there is a chance you could get bumped and can take appropriate measures to find a substitute or back-up plan.

[EZE]

Taiko,
You arrived at the airport late. You broke the contract, not the airline. While it stinks that the cause was the traffic, it is not the airline's fault.

zardoz,
Are you implying that airlines fake weather issues to mask maintenance problems? If so, that might be grounds for a legal claim, but I don't think this happens. I've personally been on a flight that was "delayed" for 15 hours; they gave us hotel coupons and meal coupons and eventually delivered us home.

All,
I also think that the difference in costs per seat mile are decreasing between between the "traditional" carriers and the "low-fare" carriers" -- especially with some of the carriers like United and USAirways "selling" their pension liability to the taxpayers (and premium payers). I don't see any readibly available recent statistics, although it appears as though DOT might maintain this somewhere in some hidden database.