Your Blood: Just Another Law Enforcement Tool

The Fort Worth Star Telegram reports that police in at least one Texas town are drawing blood from DWI suspects:

"Blood is more accurate than a breath test," Department of Public Safety Chief Bill Waybourn said. "This is just another tool for us."

For those who refuse, police are obtaining search warrants. The name of the anti-drunk driving campaign? "We Just Can't Take No for an Answer."

Comments

[Jennifer]

So if they turn out to be sober, can they sue for assault? (And if you don't think it's assault, what ELSE do you call being stabbed with a needle?)

[Phil]

Sgt. Mike Taylor, in charge of the department's blood-testing effort, said that the policy became necessary because many drunken driving suspects were refusing breath tests.

Those who refused breath tests can have their drivers license revoked for 180 days by the state "but DWI penalties are so stiff, people still refused," Taylor said.

State DPS spokeswoman Tela Mange said 50,679 drivers had their licenses revoked for refusing breath tests in Texas during 2004.

OK, so much for the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. Are there any important ones left that haven't been negated?

[Jennifer]

Are there any important ones left that haven't been negated?

Well, slavery's still illegal. For now.

[MP]

Phil,

There is no Due Process violation in having your license revoked.

If I was put on the spot in Texas, I would certainly refuse and get my license revoked. Having your license revoked doesn't prevent one from actually driving.

[Will Allen]

I find random traffic stops much more problematic than blood obtained through search warrants after probable cause has been established. Of course, if refusal to take a breathalyzer test is the sole basis for probable cause, then we're right back to where we started. Allowing for damages to be paid to sober drives who are forced to submit to a blood test would be a good way to keep the enthusiasm down among the MADD constituency.

Of course, the MADD constituency's successful lobbying for lower blood alcohol limits is a misallocation of resources, if the primary concern is reducing drunk-driving fatalities, but that's another topic altogether.

[Timothy]

It seems like having a license revoked for refusing a warrantless search of your person is crazy. However, being that refusing a breath test is already a crime, I can't fathom any reason to take blood.

Note to self: Stay away from Fort Worth. Oh that's right, I already do.

[Lowdog]

Can't take no for answer, huh, you authoritarian fucks?

Look, I'm not in favour of people driving drunk...take a damn taxi or sleep it off, but the authorities are beginning to think that they have a right to do whatever they want, all in the name of "helping" people.

Why don't they do us all a favour and stay out of people's business?

[Dave W.]

One time my designated driver insisted on going to the station for his Breathalyzer. When he showed up as a 0, the police debated about whether to give him a ride back to his car. Apparently the situation hadn't come up before. In the end they decided to.

Because I had had some drinks, I had to walk several miles to the home of a friend.

The police said they stopped the car because the front fender portion of his car was over the white line when my friend stopped for a stoplight. I don't think that is really why they stopped him, tho. I think it was a pretext. I understand why my friend was mistrustful of the police who made the stop, even though I had a rather unpleasant night out of the deal.

[Madd Maxx]

Comes to no surprise for the Royal Kingdom of Texarabia. I am actually surprised they haven't started mandatory hand amputations for those convicted of DWIs. I guess I better shutup now before I give MADD soldiers ideas.

[Ugh]

Anyone care to take bets on the year when the first state requires all new cars to come equipped with a breathalyzer into which you must breath before the car will start? I'm guessing early 2007.

[Adam]

MP: Having your license revoked doesn't prevent one from actually driving.

Good to see that the Michael Badnarik "Right to Drive" school has some traction.

[JSM]

While going to college in San Luis Obisbo, Ca, I was too drunk to drive home so I chose to walk. It was about 3 AM when a cop pulled by asking if I see a certain guy who looked liked blah blah blah. Then he said I appeared to be slightly intoxicated. I said I was certainly in no shape to drive, that was bad to say. I was asked for my ID and where I lived. As he ran the checks on me, he threatened to take me to the drunk tank since I am publicly intoxicated. After I checked out clean, I asked if I can walk the last couple of blocks to my home. After a lame, authortarian lecture, I was let go. When I retrieved my truck the next morning, I was cited for overnight parking and was fined $38.

It was cleary a no win situation. As the cop told me, I should be considering all the ramifications of ordering that 3rd or 4th cocktail.

Like I have said before, I feel much safer with a van full of middle eastern muslim males following me then a single cop. Even when witnessing a crime, I am very reluctant to report it, I just don't know what legal troubles I could be bringing to myself. Thats the ramifications of a police state!

[Adam]

For those who just can't wait for Congress to impose nationwide mandatory breathalyzers (it's interstate commerce, you see..), Volvo's getting out front on the self-imposed breathalyze before you drive...

And I got a kick out of this when I went to look for the Volvo thing on Google News: Troopers to give Breathalyzer tests (to bar patrons. no word on prizes for Highest BAC. and who the hell invites the cops to hang out at the bar??)

[Timothy]

I once got away with saying, "what do you think?" When cop asked me if I'd been drinking. Of course, I was on foot, almost home, and it was a college town.

[mediageek]

I have a suggestion:

Can we just dispense with all the double think and just reinstate prohibition?

We may as well stop kidding ourselves.

[matt]

"Why don't they do us all a favour and stay out of people's business?"

Well, then they'd have to find a new job.

[David]

JSM,

Drive home, you're a criminal. Walk home, you're a criminal. Sleep in your car, you're a criminal.

I'm with mediageek, since the object appears to be to prevent people from drinking at all, just call it by its name, prohibition. Then we'd at least know we're lawbreakers going in.

[Rhywun]

Ugh,

I'd rather breathe into my car's breathalyzer than submit to the whims of The Man.

JSM,

That's horrible. What the hell is "public intoxication" anyway, and why on earth is it a "crime"?

[smacky]

What the hell is "public intoxication" anyway, and why on earth is it a "crime"?

Rhywun,

You should know by now that in this country it's not considered fair to have fun and enjoy yourself in the presence of other people who are not having fun and not enjoying themselves.

[Sheriff Dracula]

I vant your blood!

[Stevo Darkly]

Look, I'm not in favour of people driving drunk...take a damn taxi or sleep it off

I know of a guy who started to drive home from a bar, decided he was unable to drive safely, and pulled into a parking lot where he parked, turned off the engine, took out the keys, and went to sleep in the front seat. The police found him and gave him a DWI anyway, because he was intoxicated, in his car, and had access to his keys.

This was in St. Louis County, by the way, where there are no taxis to flag down or buses or trains to catch -- you're more likely to hitch a ride on a passing yak.

In terms of avoiding a legal penalty, I suppose he would have been better off taking a risk and driving all the way home.

[David]

Stevo,

That points to the idea that the primary goal is either to meet ticket quotas, or penalize drinkers than it is to keep the roads free of drunks. I would guess that for the police it's the former and for those who lobby for and write the statutes, the latter.

What the hell is "public intoxication" anyway, and why on earth is it a "crime"?

Rhywun, sometimes I think everything is a crime. I assume that somewhere along the way, someone concluded that drunks are more likely to be involved in other crimes(brawls, vandalism, etc) so it would be be easier to just arrest them beforehand.

What I would like to know is: Since the inside of a bar is considered a public place for the purpose of smoking laws, is everyone drinking in the bar guilty of public intoxication at a certain BAC?

[Karl]

David -
"What I would like to know is: Since the inside of a bar is considered a public place for the purpose of smoking laws, is everyone drinking in the bar guilty of public intoxication at a certain BAC?"

Yep. In the before times, the long-long-ago, when I worked in a bar in San Diego, we would occasionally have vice show up and arrest a couple of drunks for being drunk in public. And issue a warning to us as well...

[Same Story]

A friend of mine did the same thing Stevo's did, got busted the same way, etc.

He was in a specialized profession where his only possibilities for employment were seasonal (but lucrative) jobs in Canada. Now he's not allowed into the country thanks to the "D"UI. The court hassles left him penniless, eventually homeless, and with no way to stop being much more than penniless and homeless, and so he's become a drifter, probably right now on his way to push sewage remnants out of NO on the end of a broom.

Somehow his life-destroying brush with government made him a DU-style Democrat. Love to see the flowchart on that.

[JSM]

I'm with mediageek, since the object appears to be to prevent people from drinking at all, just call it by its name, prohibition.

Either that or more morality laws which in effect are prohibition. Hell, I pay my sin tax with every 6-pack purchase.

What the hell is "public intoxication" anyway, and why on earth is it a "crime"?

According the booking cop at the Butte County Drunk Tank following my arrest for public intoxication in Chico, CA, I am jeopardizing myself and the public. I was ask to consider how a driver would feel if they were to hit me if I inadvertantly walked into the street while intoxicated.

Also in Chico, I had to go before the judge after a public urination arrest that got me a night in the same drunk tank. When I answered to my crime, I told the judge that I wasn't in shape to drive and chose to walk. While walking, I had to pee or risk urinating in my pants so I chose a descreet shrub in the shadows. Little did I know, in this college town, cops are on the look out for that very behavior. Apparently in Chico, students tend to get killed on the railroad tracks that cross the back side of the campus. The judge informed me that about 95% of them were intoxicated, tripped on the tracks, and passed out right were they lay. So, I could possibly bring trauma to my family if they received a midnight call informing them that their son was grounded up by Burlington-Northern! This was in 1991 so the fine as about $25. But since I had 2 public intoxication arrests and one public urination arrest, the judge threatened me with a weekend in the can if he has to see me one more time.

All is good now, I learned my lesson. I quit drinking alcohol and switched to pot. At least with pot, I stay home and watch Cops reruns with amusing horror.

Drive home, you're a criminal. Walk home, you're a criminal. Sleep in your car, you're a criminal.

You can also add "desperately needing to urinate" makes you a criminal if you can't find a bathroom in time!

[Rhywun]

in a bar in San Diego, we would occasionally have vice show up and arrest a couple of drunks for being drunk in public

WTF?? That's just... sick. The worst I've experienced in NYC was a talking-to for drinking a beer in a paper bag on the street. I'm a pretty quiet drunk, so that might have eased things. But this was during Giuliani's crackdown on petty crimes, so I guess I got off lucky.

Somehow his life-destroying brush with government made him a DU-style Democrat. Love to see the flowchart on that.

Was it during the tenure of a Bush?

[Lowdog]

Jesus Christ...getting hassled for being drunk in a fucking bar?!?!?! I need a drink.

When I was in Minnesota last year, I got super drunk at some bar, hanging out with some new friends I had made from Jersey and a couple of NHL players. Anyway, I was so drunk, I didn't realise that I was extremely far away from my hotel, so I started to walk. Got all kinds of lost and finally found a taxi...luckily I remembered the name of the hotel, and the taxi got me there safe and sound. The point of the story? I don't have one really, but I was walking pretty much on the freeway for part of my drunken journey. Actually, staggering might be a better word. Anyway, I suppose I could have been arrested if some cop had found me, eh?

Bastards.

[Rhywun]

Lowdog,

Just walking on a freeway is suspicious enough to get "pulled over", let alone staggering.

[Monkberrymoon]

"It seems like having a license revoked for refusing a warrantless search of your person is crazy. However, being that refusing a breath test is already a crime, I can't fathom any reason to take blood."

Refusing a breath test isn't a crime in Texas (although it is in a lot of other states). Which is why they've come up with this blood-draw-search-warrant plan.

[Lowdog]

Rhywun - no doubt. My recollection of much of that journey is quite hazy, but I'm surprised no cops hassled me. It was roughly 3am, though, so many of them were probably home in bed.

[unctorious]

WTF?? That's just... sick. The worst I've experienced in NYC was a talking-to for drinking a beer in a paper bag on the street.

I got a summons for that on the boardwalk on Coney Island, while there were people 10 feet away from me legally drinking at the boardwalk food stands (you see there is this white line on the ground, and that's what sets the beer zone apart from the non beer zone) Anyway, when in Manhattan, your best bet is to get a McDonald's cup or any fast food cup and either stick the can in or pour it in, I've been doing that for a few years and have never had a problem.

[Cliff]

That's just fabulous. Once they get your blood, what's to stop them from testing it for all sorts of legal and illegal drugs? Let's get those people on very strong pain meds and anyone on cough syrup or antihistamines or anything that might affect drivers' reactions out from behind the wheel. If that were to happen, I would guess that maybe people would be mad enough to put a stop to this BS.

[poco]

Karl, can I ask which bar and how long ago?

Here in SD a few years ago I was having an angry-but-sober late-night walk in the suburbs (you know when you have to get out of the house in order not to kill its other inhabitants?). A cop car crawled alongside me for a while; I glanced at it but ignored it because I wasn't breaking any laws. Eventually they drove away (without speaking to me at all, IIRC).

[Captain Awesome]

Good old San Diego, my friend and I got pulled over once at 4:30 in the morning. Dude hassled us fro like 25 minutes, solely on the grounds that we were leaving a fraternity house at 4:30 (lights were out, no music). Thing was we had just woken up and were on our way to crew practice. Wearing shorts and Nike underarmor and all. We finally asked, "what did you pull us over for in the first place?" the response: "oh... uh, taillight out." Once we got to practice, we checked, no such bullshit.

[blog lurker]

My Florida license says at the bottom: "Operation of a motor vehicle constitutes consent to any sobriety test required by law." I signed my license, so I guess that settles it for me! I don't think they are using blood tests here yet.

[bushie]

Urinating in your pants can be a crime too. I know of a cop who will detain drunks until they wet themselves. Then he cites them for disorderly conduct and sends them on home. The asshole seems to get results.

[mediageek]

According the booking cop at the Butte County Drunk Tank following my arrest for public intoxication in Chico, CA, I am jeopardizing myself and the public.

That's funny. The one time I nearly* got busted for public intox, I was just sitting on a bench trying my best to will away the godawful, pounding drums-of-death-on-the-backs-of-my-eyeballs headache.

*It's a medium-length, and very hazy story.

That's just fabulous. Once they get your blood, what's to stop them from testing it for all sorts of legal and illegal drugs?

Or feeding it into the genetic database to see if you're a match for a previously-convicted felon.

Oh, don't worry, even if you're innocent, I'm sure they'll be happy to keep that genetic data on file. You know, just in case.

[Karl]

Poco - I don't think it exists anymore; twas "The BeachComber" on El Cajon Blvd, just outside (west) of La Mesa. I'm pretty sure the owners still have the bars in Mission and Pacific Beach, but got rid of the El Cajon one.

At another bar just down the street (The Huddle), La Mesa cops would cruise up and down the street around closing time and pull people over as they left. I got pulled over picking up a very drunk friend (me, stone sober just off of work). No traffic violations, nothing wrong with the vehicle . Once it was clear I wasn't drunk, he did cite me for an expired license I believe. When I asked why I was pulled over in the first place, I too got the famous "your tail light was out"...
-K