What Hurricane?

The American Spectator's George Neumayr explains that it's not the homosexuals, it's the gangster rap and impolitic T-shirts:

New Orleans has been a wasteland of politically correct dysfunction for decades -- public schools so obviously decimated vouchers were proposed this year (and torpedoed by the left), barbaric gangster rap culture no one will confront lest they offend liberal pieties, multiculturalist frauds who empower no one but themselves, and cops neutered by the NAACP and ACLU.

A city which boasts as one of its businesses memorial "death t-shirts" -- clothing made popular by the frequency of gangland slayings in New Orleans that say things like, "Born a Pimp, Died a Playa" -- was headed for collapse…

The refugees Americans seeking refuge will be glad to know they need only adjust their music and fashion preferences to keep this sort of thing from recurring.

Comments

[Jeff P.]

And here I thought is was Geoffrey Holder's top-hatted, skull-faced character in Live and Let Die that was the problem.

[Jennifer]

No, it was those Anne Rice sex novels.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

See, God just needs glasses, he mistook the Mississippi for the Potomac.

[Jennifer]

No, scratch that--it was whatever the hell Anne Rice sex novel that was made into a crappy movie that forced a generation of moviegoers to see Rosie O'Fucking Donnell in goddamned S&M gear.

[Solitudinarian]

to see Rosie O'Fucking Donnell in goddamned S&M gear

Yup, that would make me wish for death.

[gaius marius]

is the entire americal political dialogue simply a fraud? does anyone say anything honest and sensible?

it seems as though the only voices truly empowered in our plebiscitarian madness are the idiotic ones, and that the death of the gatekeeper has served only to make media titans out of morons while burying any meaningful analysis in a landslide of partisan agitprop.

if this is the free market at work in information, this society should seriously reconsider the virtue of the free market for its own health and continuance.

[joe]

Given all these facts about how dreadful New Orleans and its residents are, _________________.

It's been a real race to the bottom for right wing pundits the last week.

[mediageek]

Once again gaius channels The Architect from "The Matrix" films, and joe says something that I agree with.

Seems like this happens around here at least once or twice a week.

[Yogi]

gauis-

You bet your ass its the free market of information. I'm sure as hell glad that I have the option to flip the channel and not have to listen to a government-sponsored idiot. Just like you have to do your own research to find the best price in the market place, so do you have to search for the sane voices amongst the insane.

While these idiots may think they are playing to their base, they are really just pushing themselves farther out of the mainstream.

[Jeff P.]

Of course the american political dialog is a fraud. More than that, it is about as relevant as wrestling (and shares amany of the same tactics). Both parties have managed to dumb down the argumants to get more of the vocal public behind them.
Unfortunately they also hold the reins and manage to regulate all third parties out of the fun. It cannot be a free market of information until the two parties implode, and believe me, when one goes, th other will soon follow. The left has been using celebrities to bark vulgar diatribes, and now the right sits by while neocons and seasoned pundits come out with gems like Neumyer's.
Between the left turning public ed in a brain wipe machine, and the right making shitting down people's throats an artform, there is no more political dialog. Just tribes of monkeys trying to make the most noise for the onlookers.

[Jeff Smith]

Neumayr has single handedly nearly ruined The American Spectator, turning it from a libertarian conservative publication that was on occasion provocative and interesting into a brainless batch of social conservative blather saved only by the occasional good book review.

Jeff

[Joe Bonforte]

I see Hit and Run has added another commentator who satisfies the local baying hounds by gratuitously bashing conservative commentary.

Tell me again what exactly is so wrong with what this guy said? Let's look at things in a bit more detail:

New Orleans has been a wasteland of politically correct dysfunction for decades -- public schools so obviously decimated vouchers were proposed this year (and torpedoed by the left)...

Hmm. No evidence produced against that, and I though Reason stood foursquare for alternatives to our generally-failed public school system.

...barbaric gangster rap culture no one will confront lest they offend liberal pieties...

Now, is anyone actually going to deny that a lot of rap culture is barbaric? Cop killing and rape are not exactly the subjects of high, civilized discourse.

...multiculturalist frauds who empower no one but themselves...

Yep, that seems right on target.

..., and cops neutered by the NAACP and ACLU.

Here, I might be more inclined to talk about the endemic corruption in the New Orleans police system than stuff like this, but it's certainly defensible to point out that the NAACP and ACLU's contributions to promotion of police work are not uniformly stellar.

A city which boasts as one of its businesses memorial "death t-shirts" -- clothing made popular by the frequency of gangland slayings in New Orleans that say things like, "Born a Pimp, Died a Playa" -- was headed for collapse...

These t-shirts are merely reflecting the culture, are they not? So what's wrong with using them as a visible signal of what the author thinks is wrong? I don't see anything, and the flip "gotcha" comment posted by Mr. Howley doesn't enlighten us on what he considers wrong with it.

Look, conservative writers can certainly get over the top in their moralizing. But smugness and condensension do not form a counter-argument.

I've been subscribing to Reason for fifteen years. Given the current crop of smarmy commentators, who can't seem to produce anything with enough deep thought in it to be worth reading, I'm about ready to give it up. Not because I disagree with them (I've often disagreed with articles in Reason over the years) but because they sound like teenagers trying to please a lefty teacher in an AP English class.

[Jeff P.]

I would like to add that the LP should produce an ad that features all current talking heads in the "political arena" as monkeys fling feces at each other. Start with actual clips, then slowly edit in the monkey stuff. Hell, make it a half-hour paid show. 30 minutes of two-party monkeys screaming at each other like in 2001, the the words "Paid for by the Libertarian Party."

I would like this soon, please.

[rafuzo]

it seems as though the only voices truly empowered in our plebiscitarian madness are the idiotic ones, and that the death of the gatekeeper has served only to make media titans out of morons while burying any meaningful analysis in a landslide of partisan agitprop.

if this is the free market at work in information, this society should seriously reconsider the virtue of the free market for its own health and continuance.

The operative word in the initial paragraph is "seems". Spoken like someone too lazy or stupid to do his own shopping and comparison, yet self-righteous enough to demand someone else do something to solve his own problem.

[Jeff P.]

Joe, the fish stinks from the head.
Everything Neumyer said holds true for Washington D.C. as well, but if we (anyone other than a Republican) questioned the moral leadership of D.C. we'd be branded as treasonous.
Yes, all of that about NOLA is true, but that's about six layers deep into the problem. A tourist-centric city that taxes and regulates everything to hell while using none of the revenue to actually try to build the city up has a LOT more problems than angry youths.

Neumyer is just another mouthpiece trying to sound angry and indignant with the world's ills, all while absolving himself and his ilk of any of the blame.

[drf]

Hi Gaius!

what's the good word????

Hi Mona, welcome back. didn't recognize your pseudo.

(bash bash bash. smarm smarm smarm)

[peachy]

There's a great difference between criticising a city's morals and taste, and suggesting that they justify its destruction and the death of thousands of its citizens. If people can't draw that simple distinction, they ought to stay silent and contemplate their own sins and leave the rest of us in peace.

[Portlander, who is forever tra]

see Rosie O'Fucking Donnell in goddamned S&M gear

The horror!

Can't... Get... Visual... Out... Of... Head...

Please, gods, make it stop!

*sob*

[po'd]

Joe Bonforte, you are my hero.

Reason has fallen pretty far since Virginia Postrel left. Gillespie is one of the only adults on the ship, but he's populated the rest of the boat with comic-book-geek lefties and counter-culture posers without a serious thing to say about political philosophy, foregin policy or culture.

[a pedant]

Yes, the commentary about foregin policy here is way out of line, but the commentary about foreign policy isn't bad.

[Eric the .5b]

There's nothing heroic about being a prissy apologist for this sort of tripe.

[JMoore]

By my reading, the link does not justify the city's destruction, nor does it suggest that it was deserved, although it does imply that much of the appalling aftermath (looting, etc.) is the inevitable result.

Why is it wrong to point out that New Orleans was a festering cesspit before Katrina? It was.

[Jeff P.]

Yes, po'd, we're all hippies, here (sarcasm). Besides, anything other than intelligence-celebrating life-affirming country music must be aestetically bankrupt.
"Bashing" the right does not indicate a slippage to the left. Hell, even Ayn Rand thought the right was more immoral than the left for betraying its principles, and that was when Goldwater was still alive.
And comic books have had a LOT more of substance to say than the American Spectator in years, not since it made the editorial decision to stomp it's feet about Clinton rather than suggest any actual ideas.

[Jennifer]

I remember now--it was Exit to Eden. Starring Rosie O'Donnell and Dan Aykroyd in S&M clothes.

[zach]

neumayr's connotation is that the reason for the lawlessness is gangsta rap and the ACLU "neutering" the police. the fact that there was a fucking hurricane that wrecked the entire fucking city was only the inevitable catalyst.

this is clear because throughout history, massive natural disasters have calmed down the populace, and have inspired them to dutifully follow the law at the expense of their own survival. the fact that they are not doing so in this case is clearly the direct result of gangsta rap.

[Jennifer]

In all seriousness, I remember last year when one of those four hurricanes struck Florida that there were news photos showing people either perched inside their ruined homes or standing guard outside, holding shotguns or other weapons, and there were all these homemade signs saying You loot--we shoot, a poem which has apparently made a comeback this year.

So similar things were happening in Florida, too, though not on so large a scale. And all those Gangsta-style complaints about New Orleans, while true, didn't apply to those ruined middle-class Florida neighborhoods. I think this was all just something vile about humanity in general--not one part of it in particular--and the reason it got so bad in New Orleans was because the initial destruction was so much worse. Florida's streets, after all, weren't made impassible by several feet of contaminated water.

I'm also wondering if different gun-control laws in different places might have something small to do with it, but since I'm not familiar with the laws in the respective places I can't speculate beyond that.

[thoreau]

Between the left turning public ed in a brain wipe machine, and the right making shitting down people's throats an artform, there is no more political dialog. Just tribes of monkeys trying to make the most noise for the onlookers.

See, the problem is that you criticized both sides in the same sentence. How dare you!!! Clearly you aren't a REAL LIBERTARIAN!!!

I'm canceling my subscription!!!!!!!

OK, but to be serious, that was a brilliant comment.

[Joe Bonforte]

Reason has fallen pretty far since Virginia Postrel left.

The worst part about it is that there are so many, including the posters here, who can't tell the difference.

Jeff P. says "'Bashing' the right does not indicate a slippage to the left.", completely oblivious to the fact that "bashing" anything is lazy writing. There are indeed plenty of intelligent criticisms of the right, and Reason used to be one of the best sources of such analysis, but not any more.

[SP]

"The ... Americans seeking refuge will be glad to know they need only adjust their music and fashion preferences to keep this sort of thing from recurring."

Even accounting for the sarcasm ("will be glad"), that's a dishonest synopsis of the excerpted column. The accurate summary would be: "Here are some symbols that illuminate New Orleans' underlying problem. This imagery is emblematic of the city's dysfunction."

And it's absolutely accurate to say that "barbaric gangsta rap" and "death t-shirts" are symbols of something deeper -- whether or not one agrees that this something is "dysfunction." Even if one contends that hip-hop is simply the inner city's CNN, it's OK to be upset by the news.

At any rate: You know, it is possible to be an advocate for pop culture in general while disliking specific elements of pop culture at the same time. It's even possible to love pop culture while worrying that some pop-culture phenomena reinforce and even encourage negative behavior.

[thoreau]

When somebody tries to blame rap music for all of the world's problems, I have to ask myself, what would Slim Shady say?

Well, I don't think he's ever commented on hurricanes and rioting, but he did have this to say about Columbine:

When some dude's getting bullied and shoots up his school
And they blame it on Marilyn [Manson]
And the heroin
Where were the parents at?

Or this one:

But don't blame me if little Eric jumps off the terrace
You should have been watching him
Apparently you ain't parents

Or this one:

Shit half the shit I say I just make it up
To make you mad
So kiss my white naked ass

Or this one:

That's why these prosecutors wanna convict me, strictly just to get me off
of these streets quickly
But all they kids be listenin' to me religiously, so i'm signin' cd's while
police fingerprint me
They're for the judge's daughter but his grudge is against me
If i'm such a fuckin' menace, this shit doesn't make sense Pete
It's all political, if my music is literal, and i'm a criminal how the fuck
can I raise a little girl
I couldn't, I wouldn't be fit to

Anybody who thinks rappers are the problem needs to start listening to some lyrics.

[Jennifer]

I'm also thinking another reason the New Orleans lawlessness got so much worse than Florida did last year was that I don't recall the Floridians having to go for the better part of a week with absolutely zero law enforcement presence (not counting the uniformed cops who joined in the looting of jewelry stores).

There are several well-populated areas of the country where rap isn't all that popular--perhaps Neumayr could name a city where complete destruction followed by a complete lack of police presence wouldn't degenerate into several days of anarchistic hell?

[thoreau]

If we were to ask Eminem his opinion about the breakdown of law and order in NO, and how to better protect citizens from crime, my guess is he'd say this:

We as Americans
Us as the citizens
Gotta protect ourselves
Look at how shit has been
We better check ourselves
Living up in these streets
Through worse and through better health
Surviving by any means
We as Americans
Us as the Citizens
We as Samaritans
What did we get us in?
We better check ourselves
Look at how shit has been
Take a look where you live
This is America
And we are Americans!

Listen carefully and you'll realize that Eminem's lyrics are all about freedom and responsibility. Well, that and making fun of other celebrities. And how much he hates his ex. And his mother. But other than that he's all about freedom and responsibility.

[Rick H.]

It's also possible to hate pop culture while questioning the urge to cite such faith-based feelings to absolve politicians of their murderous incompetence.

[Joe Bonforte]

Listen carefully and you'll realize that Eminem's lyrics are all about freedom and responsibility.

I guess, if you say so. But my own summary of the lyrics would go something like this:

We're Americans.
Something's going on.
We ought to do something about it.
But I ain't sayin' what.

[zach]

see, was that so hard? it's a far cry from

We're Americans.
Something's going on.
If you live in New Orleans,
Wait until a hurricane, and then
Start looting places and shooting people.

[dpotts]

Reason has fallen pretty far since Virginia Postrel left.

The worst part about it is that there are so many, including the posters here, who can't tell the difference.

Personally, I think there's a huge distinction between the free-for-all here at HNR, and the well written and thoughtful analysis that continues to appear on the pages of the magazine, and a few clicks back on your browser; but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's inevitable that the more popular an open forum like this gets, the more slobbering righty and lefty yahoos it will attract.

[thoreau]

dpotts-

Exactly. We commenters don't write for Reason. Nick Gillespie doesn't hire us or publish us. We're just chatting.

And, honestly, I don't think this place is all that lefty. If we seem so harsh on the Republican party, maybe that's because they're in control and it's in the nature of libertarians to distrust the people in power. But that doesn't mean we've cut the left much slack. Quick show of hands, how many people here look to the California legislature as a model of good government? That's what I thought.

Oh, and regarding Eminem's song, I didn't post ALL of the lyrics. The song is generally about guns. He makes it clear that he thinks the right to keep and bear arms is as American as applie pie and hating your pill-popping mother.

[Joe Bonforte]

Personally, I think there's a huge distinction between the free-for-all here at HNR, and the well written and thoughtful analysis that continues to appear on the pages of the magazine...

No argument that Hit and Run exposes the worst aspects of the changes in the last few years. But I would argue that the magazine has also seriously declined in quality. In former years, I would see three or four articles in each issue that were thought-provoking and obviously well-researched. These days, I'm lucky to find one such article per issue.

The gratitous bashing seen here is only toned down a bit for the magazine. The stuff Julian Sanchez, Matt Welch, and Jesse Walker produce is more likely to contain that kind of lazy writing than otherwise. And I keep hoping Cathy Young will say something of consequence, but I've been disappointed so far.

Ronald Bailey and Jacob Sullum are still holding their own. Peter Bagge is funny, even if I only agree with his points about 3/4 of the time. But who in today's lineup can compare to Thomas Hazlitt? I'd say no one.

[crimethink]

Well, for one thing Virginia Postrel wouldn't have let the sweaty, bald carpetophile have an ad here... 😉

[thoreau]

In the good old days, Reason writers had to walk through 10 feet of snow to deliver their articles to Virginia Postrel. Uphill both ways!

[Stevo Darkly]

More political commentary:

I'm all for America -- fuck the government
Tell that C. Delores Tucker slut to suck a dick...
[Bunch of cussing -- tends to do that even more when rapping about censorship]
Take away my gun, I'm gonna tuck some other shit
Can't tell me shit about the tricks of this trade
Switchblade, with a little switch to switch blades
And switch from a six to a sixteen-inch blade
Shit's like a samurai sword, eh, sensei?

-- "The Rap Game"

Yeah, you laugh till your motherf---in' ass gets drafted
While you're at band camp, thinkin' that crap can't happen
Till you fuck around, get an anthrax napkin
Inside a package wrapped in Saran Wrap wrappin'
Open the plastic and then you stand back gaspin'
Fuckin' assassins hijackin'! Amtrack's crashin'!
All this terra'! America demands action!
Next thing you know, you've got Uncle Sam's ass askin'
To join the army or what you'll do for their Navy
You just a baby, gettin' recruited at eighteen,
You're on a plane now, eatin' their food and their baked beans
I'm twenty-eight -- they gon' take you 'fore they take me!

-- "Square Dance" (2002)

Better rhymes than Jesse Jackson, and on the right side of gun control too.

[dpotts]

I definitely agree, Thoreau. I'll add that some of the previous comments are interesting considering that V-Po was at the helm during the Clinton Years (as I recall it...) and as naturally befits those of a libertarian persuasion, the mag's distrust of power was more precisely directed at the excesses of those in power at the time. Since the GOP is holding the reins at the moment, I think it only makes sense that they are the primary target for Gillespie and co. I've always thought it funny how people on the left get uncomfortable around here when economic freedom is discussed, and people on the right get their panties all wadded when someone calls BS on them when they trot out their "culture war" schtick.

[dpotts]

Not that there aren't valid criticisms of Reason, mind you.

[Jon H]

I totally want some Rip Van Winkle evangelist type to say New Orleans was wiped out because it's a hotbed of Dungeons and Dragons players.

[Jon H]

"Why is it wrong to point out that New Orleans was a festering cesspit before Katrina? It was."

I bet something similar would happen in, say, Nashville, or Phoenix. Let the meth addicts loose with guns, without an effective police presence, and see what happens.

[John]

Joe Bonforte,

You are my hero as well. You peg the writers on Reason exactly. They and many of the posters on here, all consider themselves independents with alligence to neither left nor right, yet increasingly, they seem to parrot one piece of conventional mainstream liberal wisdom after another. There is not a lot of independent thinking going on at Reason anymore. Whinny high school students trying to please a lefty prof describes things perfectly.

[Joe Bonforte]

Since the GOP is holding the reins at the moment, I think it only makes sense that they are the primary target for Gillespie and co.

When I first began reading Reason, it was towards the end of Reagan years. During that period and the administration of Bush the elder that followed, Reason did indeed come down on them pretty hard. But it was quality work, not the poseur stuff I see today.

I've got no problems at all with criticizing Republicans. I've got a nice pile of bones to pick with them myself. But it needs to be done with a bit more seriousness of thought than I see from the current Reason crew.

[thoreau]

John has it exactly right. My highest aspiration in life is to earn the praise of Noam Chomsky.

But, to be serious, what's wrong with calling bullshit on the people who currently hold all the cards?

[thoreau]

How about this: If somebody can point me to an article in the archives that exemplifies "the good old days" of Reason, I will eagerly read it.

If it isn't available online I'll have to either find a library that carries Reason or buy Choice (and hope that the editors of the compilation agreed that the article in question was indeed one of the best ever).

I have no doubt that old school Reason was good. I just don't see what's so bad about the current writing. Remember that there's a big difference between the print edition and blog comments.

[Joe Bonforte]

If somebody can point me to an article in the archives that exemplifies "the good old days" of Reason, I will eagerly read it.

Well, I don't have time for the research needed to find a bunch, but here's one from eight years ago I remember as being particularly good:

http://reason.com/9703/fe.fumento.shtml

[Swede]

I just wanted to pop in really fast to tell Jon H. that his comment made me laugh so hard that I hit my head on my desk. I think I'm bleeding a little bit. Thanks a lot, bro.
It's the Rip Wan Winkle bit that did it, by the way. Good stuff!

[Jeff P.]

Joe: You'll notice I put "bashing" in quotes.

I, for one, find a conservative columnist labeling a recently drowned city experiencing a nightmare both of natural and political causes as "due" for a collapse because of the popularity of hip hop among its citizenry to be pretty sociopathic, on par with the "little Eichmann" statement from a few months back. I suppose the women raped in the flooded ruins were asking for it because they walked around with wet clothes clinging to their bodies...

This admin has pushed safety and preparedness for four solid years, and when the need comes, the wheels seize up and the system falls apart. Yet the MOST IMPORTANT THING for Neumayr to bring up is what a barbaric culture the city had. Plus he mocks the "pieties" of others. Sorry, but the man needs the frontal lobes scraped.

There's been plenty of left "bashing" in Reason lately. BTW, when was the last issue shipped?

For the record, I'm a card carrying Clinton-hater. His needless/unjust military death toll is still higher than Bush's (but the gap is narrowing), the Chinese were balls-deep into him for 8 years (a fact that WILL bite us in the ass soon), and he is responsible for mobile execution vans trolling the Chinese countryside. However when one of his brain-addled mouthpieces became an embarrassment to him, they simply wound up dead somewhere, as opposed to published in the American Spectator.

[Rick]

Aww! All the bashing turns the stomach of such an enlightened, enlightenment gent? What's wrong with bashing?

Things needs be attacked, as viciously as possible, at all times by people to the full extent of their capacity. Or they stay stupid. The originator of the idea smiles as everyone tacitly rolls along. Meanwhile the idea is dumb.
What's so difficult to fathom? You end up like some meagerly qualified art teacher, demanding con-structiveness, not de-structivenes.

[DB]

What's wrong with bashing?

There's nothing wrong with it, it just isn't worth paying for. If you want to read someone bashing any given target of your choice, just Google the newsgroups.

[Rick Barton]

Joe Bonforte,

The problem is that Bush is no conservative-not even close. So, he divorces himself from a multitude of pro-liberty positions. This leads the Reason folks write telling critiques of Bush and his supporters. And you take umbrage at Reason instead of Bush and his supporters!!

Instead of your generalizations about how bad and off target the writing is here, and your calling the Reason writers "posers", and their writing "lazy", give us some examples Joe. I don't think that you can because it's not really the quality of the analysis one reads in Reason that you have a problem with, it's the analysis itself. I suspect that you're the one who's posing here. You're actually bothered that the commentary in Reason tends to be so well thought out, when you disagree with that commentary.

Also, to lend a little perspective on where you're coming from Joe, you were a big supporter of the Iraq war. You didn't vary that position even after the evidence mounted that the pretext for the war was neocon and government duplicity. Joe, you weren't being much of a real conservative in this matter. But what the Hell, it seems you can handle your dissonance by issuing silly smears against Reason. If I'm wrong, let's have those examples. Your generalizations aren't persuasive.

[Rick Barton]

As for some constructive criticism; there was an article in a recent print issue of Reasun about how the prescription drug laws made medicines more expensive and harder to obtain for folks who need them. I would like to see more of this type of article in Reason; pieces that make the case that government interference creates problems and makes them worse, and why a more llaissez faire approach would work better and be more equitable.

[Les]

Whinny (sic) high school students trying to please a lefty prof describes things perfectly.

Perfectly? I didn't have professors in high school, so I don't know.

Are you talking about the folks who are criticising the federal government and the current administration? It seems to me that most of the people here who criticize the Bush Administration are actually conservatives.

I mean, what do you call people supportive of the Bush Administration and its policies? "Conservative" doesn't fit at all (if we define "conservative," in part, as wanting less government and valuing individual freedom over collectivist concerns).

And the only whining I've seen lately comes from Bush supporters who value loyalty over true conservatism. They're really no different than Clinton supporters who fooled themselves into thinking he was actually a liberal.

[Dynamist]

I'm over the top with your smug Yankee bullshit. It's always all about what you learned in Sociology 101 or Sensitivity 5000. Stop riding the smooth ivory phallus and look at real people.

The T-shirts reinforce an attitude that keeps the kids killing each other. They're not the problem, but also bitching about the shirts are not the way to make anything better. If y'all used your ivy-league genius to help people free their minds, their fashion sense would surely change.

RIP "Head" Smith. Stop the Killing.

[RareWindow]

SP, I agree with you that the synopsis by K Howley is inaccurate, but I am inclined to say the same for yours. The implication--assuming that the words were written after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast--is not merely that New Orleans had some serious problems, but that the hurricane is no big deal since the city was headed that way anyway. That is what strikes me as the absurd bit; after all, a city's moral decline is unlikely to lead to anything like the situation we witness down in New Orleans--the hundreds of dead, rotting bodies; the oil-sludge-filled streets; people living on rooftops and highway overpasses (incidentally, Neumayr seems to forget that New Orleans was not the only victim--was Buloxi "headed for collapse"?). This "collapse," were it to happen (which it wouldn't have--several US cities have similar T-shirt problems), would probably take decades and evolve very slowly (especially when compared to Katrina, which makes the comparison silly). Perhaps Neumayr is grateful for the hurricane: it saves him from waiting.

[Jennifer]

I'm sure Neumayr is big on talking about "personal responsibility," but in his essay he sounds like a collectivist--all residents of New Orleans bear collective guilt for what has happened to their city. The city is filled with individuals--some of whom took advantage of the chaos to commit crimes like rape and murder, others of whom were victimized. But to Neumayr, they are all guilty, and those who were raped and murdered apparently deserved it, for having the gall to live in a city where some residents listen to rap music and glamorize violence.

It's no different from those who blame the mess in Iraq not on individual, evil suicide bombers, but on Iraqis. All of them. No victims there, only criminals. And the Los Angeles riots weren't due to some wicked individuals, but were the fault of Angelenos. All of them. No victims there, only criminals.

I wonder--in what city does Neumayr live? I'd like to take a look at its police blotter--using Neumayr's logic, I could use that to prove that it's not individual residents of Neumayrville who commit crimes--it's the residents of Neumayrville. Every last one of them. So if Neumayr's own city falls apart, he can perhaps blame himself. Although I doubt he will.

[thoreau]

Joe Bonforte-

That was a good article. I don't know that it proves any larger points about the alleged decline of Reason, but it was a good article.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I don't think this blog is dominated by the left at all.

I myself was a hardcore Republican until a few years ago. I still agree with them on core conservative principles (though the party has totally wiped its ass with them at this point).

But when the Republicans veer off on collectivist moralizing, that's when I get really pissed off.

[gaius marius]

what's the good word????

the good word, mr drf, is healthy, happy, and almost 12 pounds on delivery. 🙂 she's wonderful and quite sleepy.

[gaius marius]

I'm sure as hell glad that I have the option to flip the channel and not have to listen to a government-sponsored idiot.

part of the problem, mr yogi, is that you and most others genuinely believe you can tune and are tuning in to someone who is telling you some truth -- when in reality, the masses simply flock to the agitprop they like best, as a moth to a flame.

[gaius marius]

Spoken like someone too lazy or stupid to do his own shopping and comparison, yet self-righteous enough to demand someone else do something to solve his own problem.

i'm happy with my informational content, mr rafuzo -- but i'm not so blinded by freemarket ideology to assume that people in any significant numbers are doing what you seem to think they do as a matter of course.

part of the problem is that people don't shop for truth -- they shop for likemindedness and comfort. and if you don't think that's a problem that needs fixing, i call you an agent of our decline into civilizational senility.

[gaius marius]

I don't recall the Floridians having to go for the better part of a week with absolutely zero law enforcement presence

ms jennifer, this is very charitable of you -- but in truth the devastation that wracked florida last year or after andrew was little better than this, and people were similarly deprived of services. it took just a few days for new orleans to slide into an iraq-like anarchy.

we can and should say why: those affected were this time primarily of what is unarguably america's most disaffected proletariat. they don't particularly like the west, and i can't say i blame them, considering the hand it has dealt them and their forefathers, who were stolen from their traditions and enslaved for an exercise in improved western economic efficiency.

as was illustrated similarly in the la riots in 1992 of the civil rights insurrection of 1968, the historical axioms of internal proletariats apply to the modern west in decline as they applied to all civilizations past. they are tinder to which only a match need be applied.

and, lest anyone foolishly imagine me "racist" for saying so, let me further say that the same principles apply to muslims in europe, uighurs in china, sikhs in india, kurds in arabia, and applied to my very ancestors in the roman empire.

[gaius marius]

not to mention, of course, also in america today the disinherited european peasant who was displaced by slave labor in the southern colonies, who subsequently barbarized into what we today call "white trash" -- perhaps one of the other most aggrieved american proletariats.

[thoreau]

Congratulations, gaius marius!

One quibble with your posts: You say that the Kurds in the Middle East are disaffected, yet they've built the most secure and orderly region in Iraq, probably because they were empowered to establish their own self-rule. Probably not the best analogy.

Then again, I imagine you're not getting much sleep these days. It's all good.

[gaius marius]

There is not a lot of independent thinking going on at Reason anymore.

to the contrary, if their opinions are moving in response to the times, that is an indication of far more independent thinking than simply mimicking for yourself some iteration of the stardard conservative line without respect to reality.

[gaius marius]

i'm not, it's true, but it's no crutch. 🙂

Probably not the best analogy.

i think instead, mr thoreau, that arabia is simply further from the height of its civilization -- which was followed by a slide into troubles, the universal state of the ottomans, and then chaos. if you wait some centuries, i bet you'll find the west subsequently carved into post-imperial barbaric successor states very similar to a kurdistan.

[Jennifer]

Gaius--

Where's the address for me to mail a baby present? Right now I'm debating between The Berenstein Bears Learn that Individualism is Bullshit, or The Little Engine who thought he could, because he didn't realize that no individual can possibly accomplish a damned thing without the assistance of a strong society governed by a secure aristocracy.

[gaius marius]

ms jennifer, we've decided not to condescend to her with children's books. i began by reading her longus' "daphnis and chloe", and have on deck "the iliad" and cicero's philippics. 🙂

[wayaway]

Hello Gaius on a totally unrelated matter I was wondering if you had read Colleen McCulloch's novels on the downfall of the Roman Republic - the first book is largely involved with your good self and your influence permeates all 5. If you haven't then they may well do you for a spot of 'light' reading...

[wayaway]

I was also wondering if Virginia Postrel was available to interview Eminem??

[thoreau]

Jennifer, that wasn't very nice.

Every kid should be read Beatrix Potter.

[Jennifer]

Thoreau--

You mean books like Peter Rabbit's Father Gets Turned into Hasenpfeffer, Which Is Exactly What He Deserves, After Stealing the Carrots of the Hard-Working Farmer?

[Jennifer]

Courtesy of Cooks.com:

HASENPFEFFER ?

1 dressed rabbit
2 c. water
2 c. vinegar
1 onion, sliced
2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. pepper
1 tsp. cloves
1 tbsp. bay leaves

Place rabbit, cut into serving pieces, in a jar with all ingredients. Let stand in cool place 2 days. Remove meat and brown in hot butter. Turn often. Gradually add 1 cup of pickling solution; cover and simmer for 1 hour or until meat is tender. Thicken the remaining liquid for gravy. Yield: 4 servings.

[dhex]

gaius: congratulations on the babius maximus!

there is definitely a tendency to shop for comfort when it comes to info; even if the line between comfort and "agreement on core principles and premises" is somewhat murky. it's why reading opposing viewpoints is good, or better yet, reading a number of sources on the same topic and measuring where the faultlines occur in the handling of certain core facts.

though at this point, i would say the future 100 years from now is about as unimaginable as the year 2001 was from 1901. i cannot quite barzun-icize myself to your degree.

jennifer: that was mean and very funny.

[dhex]

gaius: you joke, but i know someone whose mother read the illiad and the odessey to him from infancy to age five or so. he has lead a somewhat normal life as an anthropologist of sorts, outside of a spate of *tremendous* drug use in college. i don't really think they're connected, though.

beatrix potter was one evil lady.

[Jennifer]

Dhex--

On an unrelated note, a few days ago I sent out the mass e-mail about our meeting in NYC. The one I sent to you got bounced back. E-mail me with your current address if you still want to go.

[mediageek]

Jeff P. says "'Bashing' the right does not indicate a slippage to the left.", completely oblivious to the fact that "bashing" anything is lazy writing. There are indeed plenty of intelligent criticisms of the right, and Reason used to be one of the best sources of such analysis, but not any more.

Which is nothing at all like what you're doing right now with your erudite analysis of the failings of Reason magazine.

[dhex]

jen, yeah, i've been having gmail issues lately. i don't know why.

anyway... dhex AT sluntrec DOT com should work. i'll flip you an email from there in a moment.

[Eric II]

they don't particularly like the west, and i can't say i blame them, considering the hand it has dealt them and their forefathers

The legacy of slavery definitely has had a collective impact on American blacks, but it's worth comparing their socioeconomic status, as well as the status of black-white race relations, to those of black communities in Canada, the UK, France, or even Brazil. These countries are far from perfect on such matters, but their situations aren't quite as bad as America's. Whether you want to blame this on the culture of many American blacks, the historical racism of many American whites, or both, there is a difference.

and, lest anyone foolishly imagine me "racist" for saying so, let me further say that the same principles apply to muslims in europe, uighurs in china, sikhs in india, kurds in arabia

There might be some comparisons to be made with European Muslims, but I don't see how the other analogies hold.

To a large degree, the Uighurs up in arms because their traditional homeland is being demographically upended by the migration of millions of Han Chinese. Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, is already on the verge of becoming majority-Han.

Indian Sikhs, far from being an underclass, have an above-average per capita income. The state that most of them call home, Punjab, is one of the wealthiest in the country. As with the Uighurs, the rise of seperatist tendencies among them had a lot to do with demography - namely, the migration of millions of Hindus - on average, poorer than the Sikhs - into Punjab.

As for the Kurds, the reports coming out of Erbil and Sulemaniyah regarding construction booms, massive foreign investment, and the arrival of Arab men looking for work suggest that their part of Iraq is on its way to becoming (if it isn't already) the wealthiest in the country. Regardless, Iraqi Kurds have enjoyed autonomy for the last 14 years, during which they've created the most developed civil society of any of Iraq's major ethnic-religious groupings, and also the only genuine committment to secular, liberal politics. Their push for a formally independent homeland mostly has to do with basic ethnic nationalism, perhaps accentuated in recent times by a desire to steer clear of the madness and mayhem going on to their south.

[mediageek]

Gaius, congrats on the kiddo. The teenage rebellious years are going to give you a mighty case of heartburn, I can see that right now.

🙂

As to this bit:

we can and should say why: those affected were this time primarily of what is unarguably america's most disaffected proletariat. they don't particularly like the west, and i can't say i blame them, considering the hand it has dealt them and their forefathers, who were stolen from their traditions and enslaved for an exercise in improved western economic efficiency.

as was illustrated similarly in the la riots in 1992 of the civil rights insurrection of 1968, the historical axioms of internal proletariats apply to the modern west in decline as they applied to all civilizations past. they are tinder to which only a match need be applied.

and, lest anyone foolishly imagine me "racist" for saying so, let me further say that the same principles apply to muslims in europe, uighurs in china, sikhs in india, kurds in arabia, and applied to my very ancestors in the roman empire.
---

not to mention, of course, also in america today the disinherited european peasant who was displaced by slave labor in the southern colonies, who subsequently barbarized into what we today call "white trash" -- perhaps one of the other most aggrieved american proletariats.

I have but one question: At what point does one stop being a victim because their ancestors were oppressed by a power structure of one flavor or another?

Hell, by my reading, you see even yourself as some sort of victim because your long-dead relatives were oppressed by the Romans.

"Help! Help! I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system."

[mediageek]

There might be some comparisons to be made with European Muslims, but I don't see how the other analogies hold.

I thought that the immigration of Muslims into European cultures was a relatively (mid-late 20th Cent.) phenomenon?

Evidently I'm missing out on some history here. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Jennifer]

At what point does one stop being a victim because their ancestors were oppressed by a power structure of one flavor or another?

When victimhood status ceases to be profitable.

[smacky]

ms jennifer, we've decided not to condescend to her with children's books. i began by reading her longus' "daphnis and chloe", and have on deck "the iliad" and cicero's philippics. 🙂

Wow! What a cool dad you'll be. I wish my parents had read those to me. Are you going to name the baby Maximus? (or Maxima?) Congratulations, mr gaius.

Mmmm....Hasenpfeffer.

[Eric II]

I thought that the immigration of Muslims into European cultures was a relatively (mid-late 20th Cent.) phenomenon?

It is, mostly, but I was thinking more about issues such as their present socioeconomic status in European countries, crime rates, discrimination, racial tensions, the creation of a "ghetto mindset", etc.

[wellfellow]

Congrats Gaius!

As soon as I'm done with Dawn to Decadence (your suggestion), maybe I'll send it to Gaius Minimus!

[mediageek]

When victimhood status ceases to be profitable.

Oh, right. *smacks forehead*

[gaius marius]

At what point does one stop being a victim because their ancestors were oppressed by a power structure of one flavor or another?

in this context, mr mediageek, when they decide to assimilate themselves into the society and stop emphasizing their ostracism. until then, i think it fairly obvious that such a proletariat sees itself, in toynbee's phrase, as "in but not of" our civilization. such alienation is self-determined and self-perpetuating -- and it's probably never entirely going away.

[gaius marius]

maybe I'll send it to Gaius Minimus!

lol -- thanks, mr wellfellow -- but she's already inheriting my dogeared copy.

[joe]

Why would someone write a column about how depraved and worthless the people of New Orleans are while they are still pulling those people's body's out of their attics?

Why would someone write a column about how depraved and worthless the people of New Orleans are, just as George Bush is suffering huge political damage, even among his "Southern Base," over the perception that he didn't do enough to save New Orleans?

You're right, peachy, this had probably been sitting in the NRO inbox for months, and the editors just now got around to publishing it.

Hey, Rich, we've got some inches to fill. Is there anything New Orleans themed in that pile of old columns?

That must be it.

[joe]

"Why is it wrong to point out that New Orleans was a festering cesspit before Katrina? It was."

Why is it wrong to discuss a man's drinking, womanizing, and debt at his wake?

Perhaps a better question would be, what would motivate someone who chose to do so?

[Dynamist]

Because, joe, the drinking and womanizing are part of who he was, and we loved him for it. We wished he would have mended his ways, but we loved him with all his flaws.

[gaius marius]

As with the Uighurs, the rise of seperatist tendencies among them had a lot to do with demography - namely, the migration of millions of Hindus - on average, poorer than the Sikhs - into Punjab.

mr eric, i would say that uighurs and sikhs have both, in the historical perspective, been effectively conquered by the chinese and hindu societies and are now part of their internal populus. however, neither would consider themselves chinese or indian -- much as many african slave descendents in america consider the west to be against them and not for them, so do uighurs and sikhs consider their social hierarchies. the same can be said of the kurds.

this is the definition of a disaffected internal proletariat.

the difference isn't so much in the proletariats themselves as in the societies that they are alienated from. hindu, chinese and islamic societies are in a far more advanced state of dessication and collapse than the west, which still is able to effectively repress its proletariats (which include but are not limited to muslims and africans). as collapse progresses, these proletariats seek and get greater autonomy and authority -- some even rising to power within the universal state of the society that once repressed them, as did the north african severans in the late roman empire.

[mediageek]

in this context, mr mediageek, when they decide to assimilate themselves into the society and stop emphasizing their ostracism. until then, i think it fairly obvious that such a proletariat sees itself, in toynbee's phrase, as "in but not of" our civilization. such alienation is self-determined and self-perpetuating -- and it's probably never entirely going away.

Hmph.

[mediageek]

Incidentally, gaius, what are the moral and ethical implications with regard to bringing a child into the world, and hence a society, that is utterly doomed?

[Stevo Darkly]

Congratulations! to Mr. Marius and Mrs. Marius on the birth of their little, um, Marietta.

Actually, I guess she'd be called Maria. If she has a sister, she'll probably be called Maria Two (or the Latin equivalent).

(Interesting tidbit about Roman conventions for naming daughters here.)

[mk]

Let me add to the congratulations Gaius. Daughters are a wonderful thing.

and have on deck "the iliad" and cicero's philippics. 🙂
are you saving Gibbon for the preschool years?

I immediately imagined this scenario upon reading that:

Babius: Daddy, that Achilles sure does like his friend Patroclus, doesn't he?
Gaius: Ahem, yes honey, they were, uh, very close. Bedtime!

[drf]

CONGRATS GAIUS on the coming of MINIMUS!

All the best to you and Yours.

🙂

yeaaaaaaaa

wait a sec - 12 lbs??????? woah! i was 4 lbs 2 oz. ...

YEAAAAAAA!

[David Rollins]

How about "Born a Lootah, Died a Floatah"?

{crickets...}

OK, anyone else?

[David Rollins]

How about "Born a Lootah, Died a Floatah"?

{crickets...}

OK, anyone else?

[gaius marius]

moral and ethical implications

call it an offering to hope, mr mediageek. 🙂

I guess she'd be called Maria

had a hard time convincing my wife that my internet pseudonym was a good basis for naming her. (some people!) but we can use maria here, if you like, mr darkly.

Daughters are a wonderful thing.

yes they are, mr mk. and thanks very much, everyone, from the growing marii clan.

[smacky]

Stevo,

I remember those sexist Latin naming conventions from my years of high school Latin. Does gaius marius have a praenomen? It's possible that she might be called "Gaia" (feminine of Gaius and incindentally the Roman earth goddess), if "gaius" is indeed the nomen, and not "marius", which I presume to be the cognomen. Example: Gaius Julius Caesar's daughter was named Julia, not Caesara, because the middle name, or nomen, of the father is what determined the daughters name. If gaius has another daugther, she would be "Gaia Secunda".

[smacky]

Stevo,

I remember those sexist Latin naming conventions from my years of high school Latin. Does gaius marius have a praenomen? It's possible that she might be called "Gaia" (feminine of Gaius and incindentally the Roman earth goddess), if "gaius" is indeed the nomen, and not "marius", which I presume to be the cognomen. Example: Gaius Julius Caesar's daughter was named Julia, not Caesara, because the middle name, or nomen, of the father is what determined the daughters name. If gaius has another daugther, she would be "Gaia Secunda".

[Eric II]

however, neither would consider themselves chinese or indian -- much as many african slave descendents in america consider the west to be against them and not for them

I'm probably not knowledgable enough to speak about the Uighurs in this context, but with the Sikhs, it's not as simple as you put it. There's undoubtedly a lot of bitterness among them over what happened 20 years ago, but a lot of them still have strong ties to India. It wasn't without reason that following partition, most Sikhs living in the parts of historical Punjab that went to Pakistan fled to India. Likewise, even today, Sikhs make up about 10% of the Indian military, as compared with about 2.5% of the country's population.

Getting back to the main point, there's a considerable difference between the seperatist tendencies of groups such as the Uighurs and Sikhs, which primarily have to do with ethnic and/or religious differences, and demographic fears, and the discontent that exists among many American blacks, which stems from seeing oneself as part of a neglected and historically oppressed underclass. If you were to use India as an example, a better analogue for black discontent would be the alienation of Indian Muslims; who, unlike the Sikhs, are poorer than Hindus on average, deeply underrepresented in the Indian military, and demand their own set of civil laws.

hindu, chinese and islamic societies are in a far more advanced state of dessication and collapse than the west

I'd say that India and China are both waking up after long periods of economic and cultural stagnation and decay, though they're each doing so in haphazard ways that threaten to bring trouble down the road. As for the Islamic world, I think it's too diverse and geographically disparate to be referred to as a single civilization. Though if you're talking about the Arab world and Iran, I'd say that they're at the embryonic stage of rebirth, albeit with a long, difficult path ahead.

Belated congradulations on the baby. If you decide to offer her the proletarian indulgence of popular children's television, I strongly recommend Sesame Street - even in its current, decayed, Elmo-ridden form - over Barney :-).

[gaius marius]

there's a considerable difference between the seperatist tendencies of groups such as the Uighurs and Sikhs, which primarily have to do with ethnic and/or religious differences, and demographic fears, and the discontent that exists among many American blacks, which stems from seeing oneself as part of a neglected and historically oppressed underclass.

there are several paths to proleship, mr eric. the net effect, however, is the same -- an entire subset of the society that does not believe that the society truly includes it or works in its interests.

I'd say that India and China are both waking up after long periods of economic and cultural stagnation and decay, though they're each doing so in haphazard ways that threaten to bring trouble down the road

my own view is that these societies have been subjected to an incursion of western influence which constitutes the first global radiation of the ideas of any one soceity. the effect is identical to the hellenization of a dessicated egyptian culture under the ptolemies and romans -- china, after all, has done nothing but mimic western ideas since the end of the 19th c, whereas india was in fact a conquest of the british empire and retains the british system of administration and wetern ideas and language to this day. both function as mere cultural satellites at the moment. you see "waking" because they've adopted entirely western views that you agree with, just as the british saw the promise of an anglicized india or the spanish of a catholic new world. neither one is demonstrating anything like a continuance or a reanimation of their indigenous sinic and hindi cultures -- cultures which lie dormant, not defeated or forgotten, waiting to rise in rebellion against this western incursion in a century yet to come.

this rebellion is, in fact, what we're witnessing in the islamic world today, where what remains of the collapsed civilization of the prophet fights to preserve its independent identity in a process that reminds me of nothing so much as the struggle of charles martel meeting the moors at poitiers. they needn't succeed, of course, as martel did -- they may knuckle under (for a time) as china did after the boxer rebellion or as india did following the british upending of the mughal raj.

[Stevo Darkly]

smacky:

Does gaius marius have a praenomen?

That sounds like a deeply personal question, best left between gaius and his personal doctor or praenomenologist.

Your knowledge of Latin far outstrips mine, since I took Spanish in high school, and only remember a few useful phrases such as, "Donde esta al ban~o?" and "Yo no hablo espan~ol -- un poco solamente" and "Tu madre es una chingada."

Do you know any Greek as well? Someday I'd like to discover a really cool animal, and I'll need someone knowledgeable in Greek and Latin to help me name it scientifically. Like, is "Draculodon nyctopteryx" grammatically correct?

[David Rollins]

"Born a 'Yat, Died Eaten by Rats"

[mediageek]

call it an offering to hope, mr mediageek. 🙂

Awwwww...Gaius, you big ol' softie, you!