Zut Alors!

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Daniel Pipes throws a curveball today. After counting off the increasingly familiar soft-on-terrorism case against the UK (protector of killers, de facto terrorism sponsor, Star Wars bar scene, etc.), he plants two kisses on the cheeks of Britain's neighbors across the Channel:

While London hosts terrorists, Paris hosts a top-secret counterterrorism center, code-named Alliance Base, the existence of which was recently reported by the Washington Post. At Alliance Base, six major Western governments have since 2002 shared intelligence and run counterterrorism operations—the latter makes the operation unique.

More broadly, President Chirac instructed French intelligence agencies just days after September 11, 2001, to share terrorism data with their American counterparts "as if they were your own service." The cooperation is working: A former acting CIA director, John E. McLaughlin, called the bilateral intelligence tie "one of the best in the world." The British may have a "special relationship" with Washington on Iraq, but the French have one with it in the war on terror.

France accords terrorist suspects fewer rights than any other Western state, permitting interrogation without a lawyer, lengthy pre-trial incarcerations, and evidence acquired under dubious circumstances. Were he a terrorism suspect, the author of Al-Qaida's Jihad in Europe, Evan Kohlmann, says he "would least like to be held under" the French system.

Like Al Pacino, Pipes is just gettin' started, and from here the article goes into a defense of the French government's hostility toward religious expression, which hardly started with Islam and doesn't exactly follow the American model of soft secularism. Even if that gives you pause, the whole article is worth reading and puts an interesting twist on what has, I think, been a pretty underwhelming performance by the Brits in the last week.

Last year Pipes confronted Berkeley loonies with a whip and a chair, and I alone escaped to tell thee.

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  1. Pipes is right. When was the last time you heard of a terrorist act there?

    Although successful, I don’t think their methods would go over well here. ( I could be wrong though)

    Interesting article about their methods here.

  2. (Pipes’) article goes into a defense of the French government’s hostility toward religious expression

    This is not such a shock coming from Pipes. He has a history of writing against individual liberty. Pipe’s uncritical and total dismissal of conspiracy analysis in his; Conspiracy : how the paranoid style flourishes and where it comes from is anti-intellectual and in it he commits some key errors of fact and logic. As to logical error: Pipes presents some bad conspiracy theories as sufficient cause to dismiss the whole discipline.

    More to the point though is that Pipes takes great pains to try to establish and so emphatically insist on the bizare equation of conspiracy theories with pornography! But why?
    A look at his words might reveal a motivation that is frightening considering his influence:

    “Indeed, conspiracist writings constitute a quite literal form of pornography (though political rather than sexual). The two genres became popular about the same time, in the 1740’s…” (p. 49)

    And then he goes on to write:
    “The United States has far and away the most complete freedom of expression of all the countries in the world (one survey of censorship calls it “libertarian to the extreme”), so conspiracist ideas banned elsewhere for their violent and noxious qualities find American publishers.” (p. 118)

    “Lauck’s (a Nebraska neo-Nazi)stint in a German
    jail for activities perfectly legal in the United States confirmed the exceptional nature of First Amendment freedoms and pointed to the alarm in foreign states about the American role in spreading conspiracism”
    (p. 119)

    These quotes are concerning. First, he tells us that conspiracy writing is in fact real pornography and then he seems to lament the American freedom of speech as; “libertarian to the extreme”, after all it does permit conspiracist ideas to “find American publishers.” while they are banned else where and with seeming good cause, and after all, they do contain; “violent and noxious qualities”. He than tells us that our First Amendment freedoms are behind foreign states “alarm” “about the American role in spreading conspiracism”. (This “alarm” seems rather contrived considering the flimsy evidence for it that Pipes offers)

    Well now; what is another attribute of pornography? (which of course, Pipes emphatically tells us conspiracy writings are but a form.) Pornography is a form of expression in America that has a history of being made illegal. It’s reasonable, after reading his passages in Conspiracy to conclude that Pipes’ agenda is to lay the foundations for making some conspiracy writings illegal.

    Consider that nowhere in Conspiracy does Pipes allow how that this “libertarian to the extreme” freedom of expression we enjoy (recent Supreme Court decisions not withstanding) should not be changed. And, after all, he sees in our First Amendment freedoms, culpability for; “the American role in spreading conspiracism”.

  3. Tim, any John Clark sightings at Alliance Base?

    Rick, Pipes may have some authoritarian leanings, but that doesn’t mean that he’s wrong about how our freedoms do offer sanctuary to all kinds of conspiranoia. Methinks the poster protesteth too much.

    And, no, I wouldn’t pass any laws shutting up conspiranoids.

    Kevin

  4. France’s anti-terrorism policies, etc. have been pretty well known for a while now. Why it took Pipes so long to figure this out is beyond me.

    Anyway the DGSE and the CIA have always had a close working relationship (despite some bumps in the 1990s).

    Happy Jack,

    The last major series of bombings happened in 1995-1996 and were committed by a group of Algerian scumbags known as GIA. One happened in July and two occurred in October. By the end of 1995 they had rounded most of the terrorists up. It was during and after those attacks (and the incident in 1994 where Algerian terrorists tried to take out the Eiffel Tower with a plane) that the much of the new legal, etc. regime was put into place.

  5. a pretty underwhelming performance by the Brits in the last week.

    You what?

  6. Here in the UK we tried to deal with terrorism using internment without trial and the other methods Pipes seems to espouse. They don’t work, in reality it just turned a lot of discontented Irish Nationalists into murderous Republicans. Internment was the best recruitment tool the IRA ever had.

    With a large and fairly well integrated Muslim population in this country Pipes’ methods would be a disaster.

  7. >a pretty underwhelming performance by the Brits in the last week<<br />
    Paul, it’s next to impossible to make any sense of Mr. Cavanaugh’s musings when he is riding this his favorite hobby horse, called “ANGLO-PHOBIA”.

    However, since the “Perfid Albion” can do nothing right in the eyes of an American web-editor who not only has Irish blood (however diluted) running through his veins, but who’s also an expert on everything remotely connected to international terrorism (and a bossy know-it-all to boot) it’s probably the best thing to ignore his pontifications.

    As they say in California: “whatever, dude”

  8. France accords terrorist suspects fewer rights than any other Western state, permitting interrogation without a lawyer, lengthy pre-trial incarcerations, and evidence acquired under dubious circumstances.

    Help me out here. As a libertarian I want to conclude that the French government hates freedom when it does stuff like that. But conservatives all assure me that denying people due process is necessary to protect freedom. Does this mean that the French government loves freedom?

    Help me out here.

  9. Holy crap! Not only does Pipes applaud the cheese eating surrender monkeys, but he uses his very first paragraph to make the point that the Iraq war is not the same as the War on Terror, and that it is possible to be against the Iraq War and still be a model of toughness in fighting terrorism.

    Why does Daniel Pipes hate America?

  10. I, too, would like our illustrious host to explain the “pretty underwhelming performance” remark.

  11. thoreau,

    Well, no one is denied due process. If they choose to charge you after you’ve been detained then you are going to get your day in court. Plus, the court systems work quite differently in France (and many other civil law countries) than they do in the U.S.: there are no juries; the laws of evidence are quite different even in a regular case because fears over a jury misusing hearsay don’t exist, etc.; judges are as much investigators as they are judges; France has specialized courts for dealing with terrorism; etc.

  12. When Britain got its Gitmo prisoners back they were released fairly quickly; when France did they weren’t released at all, or rather one was just released after being in custody for two years. The rest are still being held somewhere.

  13. “would least like to be held under” the French system.

    Plus French prisons are abominable; they make Mexican prisons look like a resort. I’ve always wondered if the sordid state of French prisons deters crime.

  14. Also, Rick Barton forgot to mention–Pipes is a you-know-what. That would explain his dislike for conspiracy theory. Cockroaches don’t like cockroah traps.

  15. “Well, no one is denied due process. If they choose to charge you after you’ve been detained then you are going to get your day in court.”

    And if they don’t choose to charge you?

  16. joe,

    They’ll eventually release you.

  17. Dan- jeezus krischt.

    unless you have some actual words from Rick that support your claim of antisemitism (or at least your suggestion of it), knock it off.

    you’re turning into the Stephin Fetchit.

    oh i get it. Any criticism of Sharon = anti semitism.

    what – you waiting for revelations to start?

    (oh wait, you’re an atheist)

  18. Rick Barton has shown a certain gullibility regarding anti-Israeli propaganda of the “the jooz knew about 9/11 in advance” variety peddled by Raimondo and that ilk, and right here on this board.

    Kevin

  19. You have to wonder why a certain sort of clannish, clever people are so eager to downplay conspiracies.

  20. …who not only has Irish blood (however diluted) running through his veins…

    Uh, WTF does that have to do with anything?

    First the Jooos!, now the Irrrrish! Takes all kinds, I guess.

    Oh wait, the Irish blood coursing through my veins demands that I consume a nice warm Guinness! Gotta go!

  21. Kevin,

    There is heavy evidence that the Israeli government had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. The evidence is accumulated from many main stream sources. I link to the evidence in the thread that you linked to. There is no evidence that they had any role in the planning of the attacks. The actions of the Israeli government, and any government, should be judged independent of ANY consideration of the ethnicity of the members that government.

    For the record, and I think you know this, I despise all racism for its anti-individualistic and hateful nature. Note my post at 2:06 AM in the thread you linked to.

    Let’s imagine that I’m completely wrong about the Israeli government’s prior knowledge of 9/11. It would still have nothing to do with racism.

  22. Rick,

    Did the Israeli government try to warn the U.S government about its prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks?

  23. Hillel- don’t know about Israel, but France warned us about Moussaui.

  24. Does anyone have any idea where Tim’s snipe at the British comes from? I haven’t seen anyone, anywhere say anything even slightly disparaging about the investigation and public statements until now.

  25. Jesus Christ, isn’t there a Neo-Nazi blog somewhere for Israel-di-it crowd to vent on?

  26. http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4346_13.htm

    Conspiracy Theories About Jews and 9/11 Cause Dangerous Mutations in Global Anti-Semitism

    New York, NY, September 2, 2003 ? Two years after the horrific 9/11 attacks on America, hateful conspiracy theories claiming the attacks were actually carried about by Israelis and Jews continue to gather force around the world, causing dangerous new mutations of global anti-Semitism.
    The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), concerned at how such rumors continue to find acceptance despite two years of intensive efforts by watchdog groups and democratic governments to combat them, today issued a report coinciding with the second anniversary of the attacks, documenting the continuing spread of 9/11 conspiracy theories and the potential for this “Big Lie” to rationalize and fuel global anti-Semitism.
    According to the League’s report, Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, the canard of Jewish or Israeli involvement in 9/11 has gained widespread acceptance in the Arab and Muslim world, parts of Europe and even in the United States.
    “The 9/11 attacks have fueled an entire new genre of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories leading to an environment where rumors about Jews are finding acceptance in the mainstream,” said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. “As we gather to commemorate the second anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, the Big Lie shows no signs of diminishing.

  27. joe

    I’m wondering the same thing. From the reports I’m hearing and seeing I’m seeing quite reasonable progress under the circumstances. And I’ve been impressed by the public appearances of officials. (except for Toady Bliar, who I despise so am utterly unable to give a hearing to).

    But then thorough, methodical and productive investigating is hardly thrilling spectator sport,is it?

    Do they need to be invading somewhere, perhaps?

  28. drf,

    Ask and ye shall receive! There’s Rick, on cue, telling us the Israelis knew about 9/11.

  29. “And if they don’t choose to charge you?”

    I’m not an expert, but from what I remember about French criminal law, there is no presumption of innocence, it is up the defendant to prove innocence to be released. Assuming that they can hold you for a pretty long time on that basis.

    Or you could be a celebrity scumbag murderer/mutilator like Ira Einhorn, and live in relative freedom because you are celebrated leftist. Seems to go both ways in Frogland.

  30. But, as you can see, Rick assures us that claiming the Israelis knew about 9/11 has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. Of course! Where would we get that idea–how could putting the Jews behing a massive conspiracy have anything to do with anti-Semitism!

    In Rick Barton’s partial defense, I actually think he’s ignorant as to the implications of what he’s saying. To temper that defense, I think he’s willfully ignorant. There’s no way someone who seems to know so much about Israel could really not realize that “the joos knew about 9/11” is Protocols-type stuff.

  31. I didn’t think “underwhelming” would even be controversial: Aside from the pretty serious stuff Pipes lays out, the public performance around the bombings has not been likely to knock anybody’s socks off. Despite the most famous surveillence system in the world, it was five days before any official word came on whether these were suicide attacks, and then only when they tagged one of the terrorist’s heads. (Maybe they knew ahead of time and didn’t make the info public, but I can only assess how much confidence the investigation ispired.) The bus bombing occured nearly an hour after the subway bombings, but still seemed to come as a suprise. The bombers apparently came from a city universally recognized as having a radicalized second-gen population, but there don’t seem to have been any leads until the bodies of the bombers were ID’d. Leave aside that it’s four years after 9/11: How long is it since Hanif Kureishi wrote My Son the Fanatic?

    On the other hand, the emergency services seem to have done well, and the actual body count is impressively low. I’m also glad they finally got some leads on Monday, and as I’m just another observer I’m not going to do more than register my own impression. Maybe the performance so far hasn’t underwhelming, but at best it’s been whelming.

    Speaking of hobbyhorses, “Kenneth Jordi” under several dozen aliases has called me a moron, a fucktard, unworthy of the name Reason, somebody whose ass he’d like to kick, and so on. The Anglophobia charge is new (though he’s lobbed it at others), as is the speculation on my diluted gene pool. But it’s always nice to have an obsessive fan!

  32. An obssession with Israel and Jews is at best unhealthy in a non-Jew. It can be tiresome even in a Jew.

  33. Tim- So, because they’re methodical, and they take their time to make certain that they have things right, their performance is underwhelming? I think I’d rather have a British response that seems slow than an American one that brings PATRIOT Acts.

  34. Hillel,

    There is no evidence that the Israeli government had a role in the planning or facilitation of the 9/11 attacks. There is however heavy evidence that they had prior knowledge and did not share it with us.

    Attention to the Israeli government is an important libertarian concern. The Israeli government is our easily the biggest destination of our foreign aid tax dollars. Also, our government’s tax support of the Israeli governments occupation of Palestinian land was a main motivation of 9/11. Note that the findings of the 9/11 commission reveal:

    “Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the man who conceived and directed the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, was motivated by his strong disagreement with American support for Israel, said the final report of the Sept. 11 commission.”

    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/nation/9222612.htm

    But why in the Hell are we discussing this issue on this thread? Read up the thread. I certainly didn’t start it.

  35. Steve,

    Your post is ridiculous! If we criticize the Italian government, is it indicative of anti-Italian bigotry? Or is criticism of an Arab government inductive of anti-Arab racism? Should we hold our tongues concerning the Israeli government lest we provide fodder for racists?

    Steve, if you google me up along with the word Jew, you’ll find threads on this fine blog where I argued with anti-Jewish racists.

  36. Rick:

    “There is no evidence that the Israeli government had a role in the planning or facilitation of the 9/11 attacks” is antisemitic code. The subtext is that Israel might well have had such a role, but so far, we don’t have the evidence to prove it. There is no evidence that Denmark had a role in planning the 9/11 attack either, but who on earth would think of mentioning it? You’re probably taking in fewer people than you think, at least here.

  37. Hillel,

    Statements and speculations about the actions Israeli government are not about Jews in general. Is that so hard for you to see?

    There is no subtext. The there is no evidence that the Danish government had prior knowledge of the attacks but there is evidence the Israeli government did, so the observation that there is not evidence that the Israeli government had a role in the planning or facilitation of the 9/11 attacks is natural. And certainly not “code”.

    I’m starting to think that your silly posts on this matter are owing to an obsession that you have with anti-Semitism. But don’t you see that when you posit that criticism of the Israeli government is the same as anti-Semitism, you play right into the hands of anti-Jewish racists?

    And what is really bizarre about this is that while you’re trying to make the ridiculous insinuation that I’m a racist, Sharon, the head of the Israeli government that you are so intolerant regarding criticism of, is manifestly a racist!

  38. Rick:

    Criticism of specific Israeli policies is certainly legitimate. If Sharon thought such criticism constituted antisemitism, he would have to concede that half of Israel is antisemitic. You do something quite different, and you know it. You imply that Israel is so evil and so powerful that it would not hesitate to murder or abet the murder of thousands of Americans (American Jews, of course, were forewarned) in order to advance its own conspiratorial agenda. This is classic antisemitism. I’m sure you didn’t dream it up on your own and that you’re drawing on standard works. Quit pretending.

  39. Hillel,

    As much as you’d like me to be, I’m not a racist. Wouldn’t it be easier for you if most of the opponents of the Israeli governmet were?
    I certainly did not say that” Israel is so evil and so powerful that it would not hesitate to murder or abet the murder of thousands of Americans “. I said that there is heavy evidence that the Israeli government had prior knowledge.
    Also, governments do terrible things, is the Israeli government an exception? Do you deny that the Israeli government is powerful? That the supporters of the Israeli government heavily influence US foreign policy?

    BTW, political conspiracies are a reality and you especially shouldn’t eschew the concept since Jews have been prominent among the victims of political conspiracies.

    I’m getting emails that I should ignore you for insinuating that I’m a racist, but I’m trying to be understanding because I’m guessing from your name that you’re Jewish and perhaps more sensitive to bigotry. And I can understand that. But Hillel, you are so wrong about me. Just google me up and you can see where I’ve argued with anti-Jewish racists on this blog. I despise ALL racism. If you see your mission as to confront anti-Semites, you’re wasting your time with me.

    A libertarian blog is a good place to find plenty of critics of the Israeli government and our government’s support of it, but a bad place to find anti-Semites.

  40. Also, when you falsely say that I maintain that Israel “would not hesitate to murder or abet the murder of thousands of Americans,” you give that idea currency. I said that there is no evidence that the Israeli government participated in the attacks but that they did have prior knoledge. And it’s ridiculous to say that Israel or any entire country is guilty of evil. It’s governments that we’re talking about and they have lots of blood on their hands. The Israeli government, with it’s occupation, is quite wicked. Is our government that gives the Israeli government our money any less culpable for the sins of the Israeli government?

  41. as someone who lived amongst the danes for more than 20% of my life (and i have a graduate degree from a danish university), i hereby take great offense to the notion that the danes would have prior knowledge of 9/11.

    that’s absurd. unless it involved giving nato info to the DDR, their intelligence service is useless!

    To Rick’s point:
    the Mossad is the most sophisticated (ruthless?), advanced, and savvy intelligence force the world has known. It has to be. Israel is surrounded by a bunch of enemies. It is plausible that they had some advanced knowledge of some sort of attack, maybe not the extent to what it was, but of an attack. A minor attack (say, a hijacking) would have been good for their purposes in keeping their big brother close. Hell, a good friend and fraternity brother is in Iraq now, and his common saying is “you ask if i’m for the war??? hell, I’m Jewish!!”, the implication from him is that being Jewish would increase the likelihood of being for Iraq. Why would he say that?

    Those (Rick’s and Jeff’s (my friend’s) are legit questions. They don’t smack of anything other than political affiliation. We can figure out the increased probability of a self-identified “conservative fundamentalist southern christian”‘s politics, too. And being aginst those politics or wary of that individual’s motives should be okay, too.

    For many people, being against the war in Iraq is the same as being anti-American. That’s absurd. Being skeptical and questioning of the Sharon government is not anti semetic, either. That’s absurd, too.

    Should those of us who don’t support the goals of AIPAC be bannished to the klan or some neonazi bullshit group? no way. but it often feels that way if you dare criticize the Likud gov’t.

    When I lived in Austria (about 1.5 years), I lived in the 2nd district. Across the canal, exactly, from where the Hotel Metropol once was. That was GESTAPO HQ. there’s a memorial there. To catch the 1 or 2 trams or the U2 or to go to Schwedenplatz, I walked by it every day.

    My place was next to a building that used to be a Synogogue. Until Krystallnacht. It was razed that night. But – the good guys triumphed and won. Today the buliding is being restored and is an active place of worship.

    “We are each other’s only friends in Europe” said Zev, a younger Orthodox, to me one day. He is right. That cultural fact doesn’t change. Nor does that cultural fact get affected by politics. It wouldn’t in a Hillary gov’t. It doesn’t in a Sharon gov’t. It doesn’t now. That cultural/personal tie won’t get broken by questioning political motives. Even political motives gone horribly wrong.

    For many the political state is different from the ethnic/religious state. Ask people who identify Irish if they approved of terror acts against the UK. Ask ethnic Germans how they feel about a few years ago. There is a difference.

    Rick posts discussion points about a political decision in this huge game called international power politics. We all can consider than accept or reject those points based on the evidence we deem most important. Or on the scale of relevance and importance of evidence. Just because some point makes us uncomfortable (think: religious right), doesn’t mean the thought or motive is anti the culture. It could just be critical of the politics.

    Rick has been very clear in his honor of the individual, and individual liberty. He has spoken out in favor of religious freedom and governmental favor to none: very libertarian positions. To accuse him of something as awful as antisemitism, which, indeed, is the right wing equivalent to the accusation of “racism” or “elitism”, without specific reason is mean spirited and deflects the point of his debate.

    His debate separates the culture and the individuals from specific political practice. He equates governmental action with negative consequences. He has not once equated personal belief or personal religious practice with anything other than positive individual behavior. He has never blanket judged a culture. He has made statements about government practice. There is a difference.

    Damn. I wish you could have been in some of my grad school classes where people wanted me to “apologize” for slavery (my family came to america in the early 1890s), and held those views or held christian conservative views as “american” (culturally held beliefs and practices). You’d see how bad that is…

  42. Really, I never care which direction the discussion threads go in, but I gotta know: How did a post about France end up as the umpteenth tired discussion of Israel, with both sides quoting talking points so dusty they make my allergies act up?

  43. Kevin,

    Tha fault lies with any who would call me a racist after I attack the Israeli government because they can’t mount an honest intellectual defense. Not with me when I defend myself against that absurd contention.

    Here’s what bugs me…whenever Israel is dragged into the conversation.

    And that would be you who did the dragging in this thread, Kevin.

    In your history, you should have included the most important point; 750,000 Palestinians were forced out of their homes and off their land in a savage ethnic cleansing.

    The Palestinians have been victimized at least as much by the leaders of Egypt and Jordan…

    I hate that we are FORCED to give our money to those thug regimes, just as I hate that we are FORCED to give our money to the Israeli government. But you obviously can’t fault them for the past and certainly not the current treatmet of the Palestinians in the occupied lands any where near as much as the Israeli government.

    …especially back when they were urged to abandon their land

    This is largely a myth. See: Image and Reality of the Israeli-Palestine Conflict by Norman Finkelstein. Finkelstine covers the Israeli government myth of a large exodus at the behest of leaders in other Arab nations. The Israeli government and its supporters even created stories of radio broadcasts urging the Palestinians to leave their homes emanating from other Arab nations. In fact, there were no such broadcasts.

  44. How did a post about France end up as the umpteenth tired discussion of Israel?

    Kevin did it, Tim! Kevin did it! (read in a slightly frantic and pleading voice)

  45. Oh, c’mon, Rick. You tried to slime Pipes because he’s a critic of conspiracy theory, which you have indulged in. The fact is that the conspiracy you seem to obsess over the most happens to touch on the government of the state that matches his ethnic ancestry.

    Maybe Finkelstein is right about any calls for voluntary exile prior to the Arabs’ attack on Israel. That isn’t the only thing the Arab states ever did to the Palestinians. Keeping them unassimilated in refugee camps for so long was pretty bad. Their own leaders, from Grand Mufti el-Husseini, who played footsie with the 3rd Reich, to Soviet stooge Arafat were bad enough.

    I will stipulate that one does not have to be anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel. After all, certain Orthodox Jews are against setting up a state, at least before the Messiah comes. But if one drew a Venn diagram of the two positions, there would be a large intersection.

    drf:

    You should hear me berate my fellow Irish-Americans when they spend good money buying Noraid junk at Irish Fest.

    Kevin

  46. Kevin:

    You tried to slime Pipes because he’s a critic of conspiracy theory, which you have indulged in.

    No, I attacked Pipes because of his veiled attack on free speech. I did so by quoting him. Now I did also note that his critique of conspiracy analysis is anti-intellectual and in it he commits some key errors of fact and logic. As to logical error: Pipes presents some bad conspiracy theories as sufficient cause to dismiss the whole discipline. I do think that conspiracy analysis i essential to understanding real politic. See Rothbard on this.

    The fact is that the conspiracy you seem to obsess over the most…

    I don’t obsess over any conspiracy, certainly not the evidence of 9/11 prior knowledge on the part of the Israeli government. And it was YOU who brought it up, not me!

    Keeping them unassimilated in refugee camps for so long was pretty bad.

    I absolutely agree. The Jordanian government, that gets .5 billion dollars of our money annually, continues to this day to treat the Palestinian refugees badly.

    I will stipulate that one does not have to be anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel.

    I’m not anti-Israel, I’m anti-Israeli government. And as Jesse Walker said in the very interesting “The Third Intifada” thread, I’m pro civilian!

    Now Kevin, please excuse me, I’m going to relax and maybe solve some chess problems while listening to some New Wave music or the Ramones. 🙂

  47. Happy Bastille Day, everybody!

    Kevin

  48. kevrob,

    Alright damnit, you are prompting me to sing La Marseillaise:

    Allons enfants de la Patrie,
    Le jour de gloire est arriv?!
    Contre nous de la tyrannie,
    L’?tendard sanglant est lev?,
    Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
    Mugir ces f?roces soldats?
    Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras
    Egorger vos fils et vos compagnes!

    Anyway, its not called Bastille Day in France; its generally called F?te nationale (though there are some other names for it as well). The military parade down the Champs-?lys?es is always very cool, especially as the Mirage fighters streak over the skies of Paris with their exhaust bearing the colors of the French flag. Here’s hoping that Christophe Moreau can win today’s Tour de France stage for France. If anyone is interested, see if an Alliance Fran?aise is near you if you want to celebrate Bastille Day: http://gofrance.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=gofrance&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afusa.org%2F

  49. Hakluyt:

    As I live in a town where the first white men to show up were Marquette and Joliet, and where we will use any excuse to throw a party, we throw a 3-day bash.

    They don’t want to use my slogan, though: Surrender yourself to the FUN!

    Kevin

  50. (passing Tim the Allegra): sorry about that.

    Kevrob:

    love it! grin.
    I avoid all german-style fests here in chicago. I cannot stand to listen to these idiots, many of whom have no friggin clue about 1) where in germany they’re originally from, and 2) how to find said village on the map. and the fake accents – almost as bad as some of your Irish parades. oh well.

    The best one, therefore, is Arbor day. We usually go to this cute, out-of-the-way restaurant that serves excellent Viking food. Kinda like the Red Inn on County road K in dodge county (off of 176).

    still. Milwaukee has great summer activities. and Sprecher is really tasty. Cheezland is really cool. Packers notwithstanding. 🙂

    Rick:

    good call on the music. Might I recommend Generation X’s “Promises Promises” or “King Rocker” or “Triumph”? For newer stuff, of course, Rollins and Black Flag are also good stuff. (oh – i’ve always liked both the Bears (long before 1985) and the Browns)

    GG:

    joyeux fete! i’ll raise my glass to you today! have a lot of fun. May Robbespierre’s judgement be swift and fair, grin.

    the Alliance Francaise in chicago has lots of really cool people in it. if you can, check them out today!
    amicalment,
    drf

  51. drf,

    Well, the good news is no attacks in Paris during the celebrations and David Moncoutie has broken away from the lead group of poursuivants with about a 25 second lead; I hope he has the stamina to make his attack stick.

  52. Hi Hakluyt! (spelled it right, ‘n’ everything!)

    that is excellent news about no attacks. phew. somehow, considering france’s record with dealing with such things, i’d bet the terrorist pig fuckers would think twice ere they attack there.

    as for the biking, allez-y! (since it’s not something i follow, i’ll defer to you)

    and remember: if you’re a poursuivant, your view never changes!

    amicalment,
    drf

  53. drf,

    Thanks for the music hints!

    Kevin,

    Happy Bastille Day!

  54. Surrender yourself to the FUN!

    Sounds like a line from Rocky Horror…

  55. Rick Barton can relax about the Jews. This just in.

    Top Stories
    Gibson?s Father Convinces Jews To Give Up World Control
    By Dan Barash
    Mar 25, 2004, 08:30

    Bowing to intense pressure from Mel Gibson?s father, Jews announced today that they would no longer control the world. In a press release, Jews stated, ?Although we have thoroughly enjoyed the challenges of world domination for the last 300 years, we feel it’s time for gentiles to take control of their own affairs. We plan to spend more time with our families and pursue other interests.?

    Without Jews in the film industry, expect more Passion films, such as The Passion of the Bad Boyz, The Passion of the 007, and Batman 12: The Passion of the Latex-Fetish Bat-Freak.
    Hutton Gibson stated he was pleased with the announcement, but expressed concern he was losing a scapegoat for all of his problems. He said he would be launching a search for a new minority group to demonize.

    Many Jews expressed relief that they could give up burdensome responsibilities. Retired accountant Jerry Friedman, who controls all media in Montana, said, ?I would just as well let the citizens of Montana manage their own TV and newspapers. Don?t get me wrong, Montana is a fine state. But it gets awfully cold, and there?s nowhere to get a good bagel.?

    Attorney Allen Franks said he’s glad he no longer has to manage Bulgarian monetary policy. ?It was getting to be quite a hassle,? he said. ?I already have a full time job and can?t even balance my own checkbook, let alone control the finances of an
    entire nation.?

    Homemaker Judith Levine said she would ?…miss the hustle and bustle of setting the international price for magnesium every day. But my son is about to be Bar Mitzvah’d, and oy! Such a party we’re gonna have you wouldn’t believe!?

    Is the future of comedy as we know it in his hands?
    Hollywood producer Sidney Greenbaum was pessimistic about the announcement. ?Do you really think goyim know how to make movies?? he asked. ?They’ll all end up being high budget, technicolor snuff flicks if you leave things up to Mel and his kind.?

    Comedy experts expressed concern that the business would suffer if Jews suddenly withdrew. According to one insider, ?Take away all the Jewish comics and writers, and all you have left is Carrot Top. That?s not a world I want to live in.?

    A potluck dinner in honor of Jews contributions to mankind will be held at the Hoboken Holiday Inn on April 3. All gentiles are welcome to attend. Participants will be encouraged to share an an offensive Jewish joke.

  56. Dan,

    Ahh!! It’s not “the Jews” that are my concern here but rather, the actions of the Israeli government, and even more so, our own government’s foreign policy. But that was pretty funny anyway.

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