Scientific Polls Finally Answers Freud's Plea: What Do Women Want?

|

According to a story in the Washington Times, it's time to dump those quiche futures. Citing a Harris Interactive poll, "manly men" are kicking ass like hardhats working over a bunch of hippie protesters on Wall Street (scroll down).

To wit:

A full 61 percent of women surveyed said they would rather see a man's hands rough and working hard than well-manicured, a slap in the face to the extreme-makeover, suave-guy crowd.

Ninety-two percent of women said dependability is a desirable characteristic in an ideal mate. Only 16 percent chose "fashionable," and 62 percent chose "strong" as a desirable characteristic.

This poll–or at least the Times' reading of it–stinks worse than a Hungry Man dinner covered in Dinty Moore Beef Stew. Note, for instance, the implied opposition between "dependability" and "fashionable," as if a metrosexual (some of my best friends are, btw) is too busy moussing his hair and watching Queer Eye for the Straight Guy to take out the trash.

Then there's the use of F. Carolyn Graglia as a definitive voice of wisdom:

"…a good husband is one who is strong, dependable, is going to accept the burdens which he is going to bear in the workplace," she says. "And he doesn't have to buy his own shampoo, because I do all the shopping. He doesn't have to do anything but go out to work and win the bread."

Wash Times story here.

And sorry boys, she's taken (by late '90s campus speech cause celebre Lino Graglia). Cathy Young reviewed Graglia's unintentionally hilarious book Domestic Tranquility, which makes June Cleaver look like Gloria Steinem, a few years back in Reason, noting:

This tome, which can be kindly described as eccentric, may not seem worth discussing–except for the glowing blurbs from William Kristol ("stunningly bold and deep") and Danielle Crittenden of The Women's Quarterly, who praises Graglia as "a courageous thinker." Well, I suppose it does take courage to argue that it's not good for women to think too much, or to suggest that female genital mutilation is just a slightly too "draconian" way to achieve the worthy goal of curbing female sexual assertiveness and affirming male mastery in sex.

That piece is here.

None of this is to suggest that some women don't want "manly men" who don't know where the shampoo aisle is in the supermarket. Or that some men don't want, what, girly girls? as spouses. But the strange emphasis on rough-hewn male paws on the part of many conservatives–who are not exactly known to exude studliness as a species–is strange, as is the conflation of "manly" with "dependable". And that's not to mention the implication that hygeine beyond the basics should call forth a Mr. Roper response.

Advertisement

NEXT: About That Fake Schiavo Memo

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Are people actually calling themselves “metrosexuals”!? I thought that was a South Park joke. Seriously, grow some goddamned testacles and quit relying on a contrived, meaningless classification to make you feel better about being a pussy.

    How about a link to the poll data or the story? I’m curious as to what else besides my wallet broads are interested in.

  2. as if a metrosexual (some of my best friends are, btw) is too busy moussing his hair and watching Queer Eye for the Straight Guy to take out the trash.

    I’ve met a few who are too busy looking at themselves in the mirror to be much good to anyone. So maybe I shouldn’t comment further, with apologies to non-narcissistic metrosexuals. But really, it does take an awful lot of time to preen oneself, whether male or female, and I think taken to extremes it is a big, self-absorbed waste of time, and pragmatically that is time wasted that could be spent retiling the roof or resurfacing the driveway.

    There is a definately certain allure to manly hands as opposed to manicured hands. I say this as a woman who thinks manicures are even usually frivolous on women, except maybe for prom. Just cut off your nazzty nails and slap on some moisturizing lotion and save yourself $40, for cryin’ out loud.

    With a few exceptions of course, If a guy’s hands are softer than mine, that implies that he doesn’t know how to work, IMHO.

  3. Sounds like the article hit a little too close to home for our boy Nick.

    Don’t worry Nick, there’s still plenty of girls who like girlie men. ๐Ÿ™‚

  4. Would those be the same 62% of women who find themselves getting a divorce or having reason to because the “strong” man either drinks himself into a stupor, gambles the house payments, bangs the girl at the coffee shop, or slaps the crap out of her when life gets rough? I get to meet women like that all the time as they file for child support mandates from the court. But he’s so damn manly, though.

  5. Lino was a professor of mine in law school, and he had some good points, if you could look past the “so what if black people can’t serve on a jury” and “who knew ‘pickaninny’ was an offensive word?” minority baiting. I was in school when Rev. Jesse came down to lead a march and sit-in protesting Lino’s comments– a bunch of goofball undergrads clogged the law school for a day demanding “concessions.” Not snacks, apparently. I had no idea Mrs. Graglia was such a loon. I don’t recall noticing Lino’s hands being particularly rough, but then he didn’t touch me all that much…which was nice.

  6. cdunlea,

    Just because a woman desires a man and not a pansy does not mean that she desires an abuser…but I see your point, even if it is a little too blunt.

    Actually, this reminds me of a skit I was watching SNL: The Best of Phil Hartman, where he played Phil Donahue, and there were all of these abused women who fell for some belligerent asshole in the studio audience…it was pretty funny..

  7. Ah, smacky, but if he does these things is he in fact a strong man? Or just an overgrown maladjusted child?

    My understanding of “strong” is in terms of character: resolute, determined, focused, caring, and protective. Just because he’s forceful or has calloused hands means shit. Women do seem to appreciate some metrosexual traits in men, although grooming care is not one of them.

  8. Maybe there is something to be said for manners and a sense of … chivalry? If being a pussy means treating people with respect, including not looking or smelling like a total snob (self-respect), then count me in. In the chivalry corner is a strength for defense and utility, too. We can’t (and shouldn’t) expect (or want) big brother government doing it for us. Is self-reliance still sexy?

  9. What’s more important is what YOUR woman wants from a man and not what 62% of the chicks surveyed want.

    Secondly, people tend to make their own arrangements regardless of what the Times, Cathy Young, Graglia, or the rest of us think.

    Third, by the time you’re as old as me you learn a lot of things about chicks that sure would have been handy to know way back in those dim days when you ventured forth from the cave, club in hand, looking for love (in all the wrong places).

  10. That was supposed to be Slob, sorry.

  11. What if you’re out to court (or bed) that 62%?

  12. I know 100% of one woman who definitely wants me. Screw the polls.

  13. “The Harris survey was commissioned by Dodge Trucks.”

    Maybe they found what the sponsor wanted them to find?

  14. Polls about what women want should be taken with a massive boulder of salt. The only people who know what women want less than men are women.

  15. Is self-reliance still sexy?

    Yes, that is exactly what I was getting at. Rough hands distinctly (at least sub-consciously) imply self-reliance (unless someone just likes to drag their hands around on the ground for no reason to make them look rough).

    PintofStout,

    I liked it the way you had it with the typo:

    including not looking or smelling like a total snob (self-respect),

    While it makes sense with the correction (=slob), a huge thing that I find unattractive about metrosexuals is their all-encompassing, pervasive, snobby sense of self. (And as rst mentioned, having the audacity and cheek to categorize themselves socially).
    Trust me, I love guys who have good personal hygeine…it’s the preening and Victorian aloofness that I find unattractive in metrosexuals. That, and they make women like me look bad. I guess it’s an enmity comparable to men who feel threatened by tomboys, if that makes any sense. I don’t want anyone who is better at being a woman than I am.

  16. Does this mean Ralph Kramden was the perfect husband?

    I think most people, men and women alike, want somebody they can complain about. Let’s face it, there are only so many hours in the week to live your life. What are you gonna do with the rest of it? Complain!

  17. Rough hands could also come from furious and repetitive masturbation. Just throw on a flannel shirt when you’re done and maybe the chicks will mistake you for a lumberjack.

    guy in the back row,

    Doesn’t Dodge put out the “hemi” commercials where the manly-man truck-drivin’ husband is always afraid his girly-girl wife is steering their son towards homosexuality? Nothing like homophobic undertones to move those pickups off the lot, right?

  18. ” I’m curious as to what else besides my wallet broads are interested in.”

    I’m sure ‘not being called a broad’ ranks up in the top 10. ‘Dames’ is also probably out.

  19. Not Walker,

    Girlie Man?

    I’m not so sure about that. Nick, Reason’s resident Man-In-Black, runs with the Hessians (I think).

    Either that or maybe it’s the Corleone family.

  20. I knew a dame who liked being called a dame. In fact, she legally changed her name to Dame!

  21. PRHorse,

    Yes, but Dame Edna doesn’t count!

  22. BTW, shouldn’t it be fairly obvious that women aren’t the only ones who have unreasonable conflicting fantasies about their ideal man? I mean, c’mon fellas, what’s your chance of meeting that improbable concoction of Jaime King and June Cleaver you have boiling in your head?

  23. Actually I was thinking of the cartoonist Dame Darcy who is very much a girl.

  24. PRHorse,

    OK, I just visited Dame Darcy’s website. I see what you mean. Boy, she’s a strange one. Daddy likee!

  25. “And sorry boys, she’s taken”

    apparently you didn’t google her for a picture

  26. From the survey:

    >?90 percent of women said they prefer low-maintenance, easygoing guys.

    Here’s something men could learn from in the survey. ๐Ÿ™‚

  27. I saw part of the Jeff Foxworthy standup act and he was talking about how the #1 fantasy guy for women was “dangerous.” He said, “In their minds, a dangerous man is like James Bond, in reality being with a dangerous man is bound to have you on COPS standing outside a trailer in a tube top yelling, ‘Lock him up! Lock his ass up!'”

  28. One of the handy things about the new age of equality between the sexes is that we all get to share the household chores PLUS the guys still get to take the trash out, wash the car, and mow the lawn.

  29. Rough hands could also come from furious and repetitive masturbation.

    Nope. A trifle hairy, perhaps, but otherwise smooth as . . .

    Er, so I’m told.

  30. smacky,
    I was trying to imply some minimum level of hygene with slob. I guess snob works, too. Nobody likes a snob, with the exception of himself.

  31. “Doesn’t Dodge put out the “hemi” commercials where the manly-man truck-drivin’ husband is always afraid his girly-girl wife is steering their son towards homosexuality?”

    whoa, i musta missed this one.

    does he drive over the wife? “stop emasculating him!”

    i always made sure to date women who liked to be picked up and carried around. it’s my only bar trick.

  32. I always suspected women wanted guys that tried to model their personality/behavior off of survey results.

  33. Rough hands could also come from furious and repetitive masturbation.

    Nope. A trifle hairy, perhaps, but otherwise smooth as . . .

    Does hard work give you that crazy, creepy gaze in your eyes?

  34. Rough hands could also come from furious and repetitive masturbation.
    Not true at all. Some people use lotion.

    Or so I’ve heard.

    Rough hands distinctly (at least sub-consciously) imply self-reliance
    What percentage of jobs require roughing up someone’s hands? Most people in this day and age are desk jockeys.

  35. SPD: I wouldn?t know, I guess they don?t show that commercial on the History Channel or during Survivor.

    Serfina: That goes for guys too. Nothing worse than a helpless woman after the initial infatuation has worn off.

  36. What percentage of jobs require roughing up someone’s hands? Most people in this day and age are desk jockeys.

    I figured someone would point that out. I’m not saying it’s a common feature on men anymore, or even that I would favor someone purely based on such a minimal physical distinction…all I’m saying is that it can be a very attractive feature on guys. Actually, most of the guys I’ve dated have very feminine-looking hands. Maybe that’s why I’ve never had a very long-term relationship: soft hands = totally unreliable. (Haha)

  37. The only metrosexual I know is totally UNdependable. That parts is right. (I realize I have a small sample size)

  38. Damn it! I can’t tell if my hands are rough or not. Should I not trim these hangnails?

    How official are any of these polls?

  39. I always that the most attractive trait for anyone of any persuasion was unattainabilty. You know, If a person is just “out of your league” or a bitch bastard, commitment phobe, whatever. Nothing seems to turn us on as a species more than what we can’t have.

  40. I’m sure ‘not being called a broad’ ranks up in the top 10. ‘Dames’ is also probably out.

    Perhaps. But I’ve found that buying them things works quite well in the pursuit of the primary thing we want out of them. I’ve found many women to be easily manipulated by material things, so much so that you can call them a broad or a dame and still get laid.

    That 61% is after a tactile sense, not a lasting marriage. Just because I can make her cum doesn’t make me god, it just means I’m going to get good referrals.

    And I have soft hands.

  41. Even some desk jockeys own a home or property. Some even engage in hand-roughing activities such as rock climing or backpacking/camping. How many desk jockeys also change their own oil and perform basic maintenence on their cars. One doesn’t have to live off-grid to be self-reliant.

  42. No to mention mowing the *%&^$%^$& grass!

  43. A friend of mine takes a shower and blow-dries his hair just so and spends a half hour in front of the mirror — BEFORE he goes to the gym. Does this qualify as a metro? Inquiring Eds don’t really need to know but they are bored today.

  44. Many women seem to like fixer uppers for some reason. The goal seems to be to take the manly man and convert him into something that somehow knows exactly when to be strong and exactly when to be deferential.

    My hypothesis is that starting with the manly man is better because it is easier to whip the manliness out of him when necessary than to instill manliness that isn’t there in the first place. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  45. In the 70s I worked as an engineer in the construction department* of a big steel fabricator.

    It may not be scientific but the Ironworkers were absolute pussy magnets. I don’t think they had many “erection” problems either.

    For reasons that will escape nobody the name had been changed a few years before from the “Erection Department”.

  46. Is this to say that you can enhance your MQ (manliness quotient) by going a couple of rounds of week with a 75lb heavy bag? It should be an efficient way to do things because:

    a) What is more manly than hitting inanimate objects while mentally playing the White Guy Learns to Box scenes from Rocky III?

    b) Your hands get roughed up in the process.

  47. … per week …

  48. This was in the Washington Times?

    Did they at least have the courtesy to give a shout-out to the True Parents?

    Clearly, the good Reverend Moon is the epitome of manhood.

  49. What’s more important is what YOUR woman wants from a man and not what 62% of the chicks surveyed want.

    This is the best piece of advice ever given in regard to women.

  50. I’ve met a few who are too busy looking at themselves in the mirror to be much good to anyone.

    My opinion is that people who are so inclined tend to be so self absorbed that they are more useful when absent.

  51. In the 70s I worked as an engineer in the construction department* of a big steel fabricator … For reasons that will escape nobody the name had been changed a few years before from the “Erection Department”.

    One of my first jobs was with a big architecture/engineering firm. One thing I had to do was to edit/rewrite some case studies of past projects — used in proposals and for other marketing purposes — that had originally been written by architects and engineers.

    One sentence I decided to rewrite: “The building had a steel framework because it is capable of speedy erection.” I couldn’t let that stand (so to speak).

    I can tell this will be a long thread. (If the ratio of female-to-male posters here was more than about 1:8 it would be even longer.) More later, after my fingers have been sufficiently roughened by pounding this keyboard.

  52. Stevo

    Many were the stories of the dept secretary aswering the phone and calling out in a loud voice to the construction engineer or general superintendent “[one of the foreman] needs to talk to you, he has an erection problem”.

    Nobody wanted to be called the Erection Manager, Erection Superintendent or Erection Engineer anymore either.

  53. Should we now divert into the phenominon (sp?)of “man hands?”

  54. Doesn’t Dodge put out the “hemi” commercials where the manly-man truck-drivin’ husband is always afraid his girly-girl wife is steering their son towards homosexuality? Nothing like homophobic undertones to move those pickups off the lot, right?

    I think you’re reading way too much into those commercials–I never got a homophobic vibe from them, simply a funny commentary on the often different expectations that men and women have for both vehicles and children.

    On another subject, it’s no news to any “sensitive” guy that chicks dig assholes. I had a friend in high school who was great friends with some of the hottest chicks in the school but never got any because he bought into the “girls like a sensitive guy with a nice sense of humor” BS.

  55. …Or perhaps the ever-popular topic of “size does/doesn’t matter?”

    (This could go both ways, you know. Men aren’t the only sex with size/preferability issues.)

  56. The advice of only knowing what that ONE particular woman likes is good advice.

    But maybe for reasons of science we would like to know about the factors of attraction. I think it says something about how we think and react; sometimes without knowing it. Can’t we do it for the children?!?!?

  57. Oh, I don’t think that chicks in general dig assholes, though clearly there’s an unattractive subset of women who do. Happily, there are plenty of assholes around to keep them busy, leaving the more interesting guys to the rest of us.

  58. ThoRow & Pint,

    Many thanks.

    My hands are rough despite the keyboard…but it comes from manly-man projects like planting pansies and hacking the limbs off of offending trees and such.

  59. Just because I happened to have this handy on my hard-drive (then I have to go back to work) …

    Speaking of the parallel case of what men want, about 10 years ago I wrote a “poem” about all the things I thought desirable in a woman at the time (more or less).

    I Wanna

    I wanna sex-crazed librarian
    A Jewish-Asian libertarian
    A barbecuin’ vegetarian
    A former Catholic schoolgirl
    Who reads the Kama Sutra
    Faithful, wants to be a wife-and-mom
    The nurse/cheerleader/flight attendant/
    Masseuse-next-door
    A shy, old-fashioned woman
    With a six-figure income
    Who likes wearin’ five-inch heels and lingerie
    Curvy yet petite. Full of laughter, and so sweet
    And she fucks likes she’s in heat
    (Of course, she saved it till the day that she met me)
    A Nobel-winning chemist
    Who bakes pies, wears rubber dresses
    And can solve Fermat’s Last Theorem in her head.
    A low-cut “Do-me feminist”
    Who says, “Poor baby” when I feel depressed
    Then giggles and says, “Tie me to the bed!”
    Who loves cats and pups and buttercups
    Is impressed when I do five pushups
    Who just loves kids
    But don’t already have one.

    And I found her!!!
    — But she said no
    ‘Cause she was lookin’ for . . .
    A cowboy/poet/fighter-pilot/drummer/CEO.

  60. Serafina,

    Got any good pointers for spotting interesting, non-asshole guys? I can’t seem to shake this asshole-magnet-vibe I’ve got going for me. And I say that under the premise that I do NOT dig asshole guys.

  61. Smacky,

    Won’t do you any good to spot non-assholes if you’re attracted to/ only attract assholes. Two problems pop up right off the bat.

    1. Most people are assholes.
    2. You don’t find out until you get to know them, and then it’s too late.

  62. Wait, I’ve got a great solution to my dilemma: start a Libertarian dating service right here on H&R: I’m first in line to date Evan Williams – no – better yet, Stevo Darkly – no, wait: Evan Williams, no, kevrob, no – Douglas Fletcher. On second thought, nevermind. I guess it would be too difficult to choose. Assuming any of these guys wouldn’t be bothered by my man hands.

    …Ok, I don’t really have man hands*. I’m just not very well-rested today and consequently am in a very rambunctious mood. I should stop posting now, probably.

    *But I do have webbed feet. Haha fooled you again.

  63. How would a dating service on H&R help you screen out assholes?

  64. David,

    Good point. In defense of my illogical post, I plead my previous statement:

    I’m just not very well-rested today and consequently am in a very rambunctious mood. I should stop posting now, probably.

  65. Did you ever finish the IHS application?

  66. sausagefest (n)
    1) A party with a high percentage of men.
    2) Dating service on H&R

    David,
    It would probably help her screen out the assholes because most of them have made themselves patently obvious in their posts and as a female she’d have little to no competition. Of course, the nicest guy in H&R, thoreau, is already taken.

  67. Smacky,

    Find one of those guys db was mentioning.

  68. Well, Tim kicks out the losers, right?

    If you’re loking for guys, why not try a star trek convention? The ratio of men to woman is even worse at one of those than it is on H&R.

  69. I wasn’t able to read the poll, but does it mention, of the 61% of women that prefer manly men, what percentage are over 5’8″ and under 140lbs, and at least moderately attactive? You know, the kind of women that “metrosexuals” like myself actually date?

    J1

  70. Why not email BillyRay?

  71. Did you ever finish the IHS application?

    Actually, yes. I don’t know if they received my college transcript in time, though. I tried to get my school to fax it the day it was due. I think they notify people if they’ve been invited sometime in May.

  72. smacky, it’s an honor just to be nominated!

    I can’t seem to shake this asshole-magnet-vibe I’ve got going for me.

    I’m afraid it’s called “being a female.”

    David: How would a dating service on H&R help you screen out assholes?

    She may have been thinking that the asshole quotient on H&R is lower than among the general population. Yes, she definitely needs some rest.

    Off to pay bills now.

  73. Why not email BillyRay?

    Now there’s a heartthrob…I can just envision him driving down a dirt road in his Ford F150 pickup truck, all sweaty from wrestling cows all day on the prairie….(sigh)

  74. …his one remaining tooth polished sparkling white, mullet ponytail tied back neatly…(sigh)

  75. A manly man indeed!

  76. smacky

    One suggestion, if you are working on the 25th story of an office building, do not, I repeat, do not flash your phone number written in large letters to that rugged looking guy walking on the 6-inch wide I-beam on that building under construction across the street.

  77. This thread is looking like it’ll be the first to hit century mark in the post-Gunnels era. Astounding considering that no one is posting in response to themselves.

  78. Post-Gunnels era? Did one of the inmates escape?

  79. He got himself barred.

  80. Yo, if a bunch of right wing chicks get moist playing “lifestyle submissive,” then have at it.

    But there’s nothing sadder than a fetishist with a psychological need to believe her shtick is vanilla.

  81. Barred? Are you kidding? When and which thread was this? What did he do/say to get barred? Where was I for all this? Geez…

    I’ve got bets that it was on a Pope-related topic. Am I right?

  82. Smacky and other fellow-females of mine:

    I have discovered, quite by accident, that if you’re female, below the age of eighty and at a sci-fi convention, you attain automatic goddess status. You don’t even have to brush your hair or anything. Bunch of socially inept dweebs there to be sure, but not too many assholes; mostly the guys the assholes pick on.

    Just don’t go there with the intention of actually listening to the discussions or anything, because it will be impossible due to the hordes of desperate men awkwardly trying to start conversations about Babylon 5 and the new Battlestar Galactica. Which are both damned good shows, but still.

  83. Smacky

    Barred? Are you kidding? When and which thread was this?

    Here, Scroll down.

    https://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2005/04/one_bill_of_rig.shtml

  84. Joe nailed it:

    Yo, if a bunch of right wing chicks get moist playing “lifestyle submissive,” then have at it.

    But there’s nothing sadder than a fetishist with a psychological need to believe her shtick is vanilla.

  85. That whole last comment was supposed to be italicized. Oops.

  86. smacky,
    The thread where the Gunnels ban was announced/discussed is here.

  87. Smacky,

    I think GG really got himself into trouble>here, when he called Tim a fucking scumbag.

  88. ….awww…no more Gary Glitter?….

    …He was the only one on H&R who had a name that reminded me of that infamous 70’s rocker pedophile’s that I so dearly liked to tease him with.

    I echo many of the sentiments on that thread, but mostly the pro-Gary ones. And I’m really pissed that I missed that thread, too! What a good one. I would’ve had a lot to contribute on there, but alas, that thread is all but expired…..

    I guess I agree that TC has the right to ban whomever for whatever reason, even if it is personal…but I guess I just didn’t ever perceive Gary as a threat, since the format of these discussions allows an individual to skip over any comments and posters he/she chooses. (That, and I don’t get on people’s bad sides too easily, unless you’re offended by idotic humor….so I never really had a confrontation with him…) But moreover, I think he really did contribute a lot to H&R, if you could get past some of the occasional (or frequent) rudeness….

    So I guess that places me in the Bring-Gary-Back camp. Gary filled many a niche on Hit and Run, and he will be missed.

    So ends my eulogy.

  89. See? I guess I do fall for assholes…..

    (it’s a weakness of mine, I guess.)

  90. Uh, oh. I just broke Hit and Run Rule number XXX.IV.I Title III under the Posting Code: posting twice (consecutively) without a response from a second party.

    (pulls pants down and bends over for spanking/ass kicking from Tim Cavanaugh)

  91. Geez, smacky, sounds like Ms. Graglia’sot the only one with submissive fantasies around here. Is it Cavanaugh or Gillespie who supposedly wears lots of leather?

  92. I hope talking about the editors like that doesn’t get me banned for sexual harassment. And this might be a double post, too.

  93. Um, Tim’s busy. But I’m here!

    (Actually, that rule only applied to GG, not everyone at H&R. But I’m withholding that information until later.)

  94. Jennifer,
    That would be Nick “Fonzie” Gillespie.

    Damn, Stevo beat me to it.

  95. My last post was supposed to come right after smacky’s. Probably would have made more sense and been funnier.

    But then Jennifer jumped in with two posts.

    I can’t keep up with all this naughtiness.

  96. Oh, lordy: A Hit and Run Orgy. This is another reason why we need Gary here. He could at least bring levity to a discussion, even if it was Vitriolic, Spiteful levity…..I am outta here! (Thanks for the spankings, Stevo.)

  97. (pulls up pants)

  98. Stevo, that misplaced comment proves you’re a MISERABLE WORM! Get on your knees and crawl to your keyboard and BEG my forgiveness!

    (I’m not really like that, but with all this submissive-female talk I felt a need to stick up for the Home Team. I hope my boyfriend’s not reading this thread.)

  99. Smacky-
    Don’t go! I want to talk to you! I just figured out a way the two of us could make a SHITLOAD of money!

  100. The pleasure was all mine!

    (pulls up pants also)

  101. Dammit! My post of April 7, 2005 07:05 PM was supposed to be in response to smacky’s comments of April 7, 2005 07:01 PM and 07:02 PM.

    I’m afraid I don’t switch, Jennifer. ๐Ÿ™‚

  102. Stevo, that misplaced comment proves you’re a MISERABLE WORM! Get on your knees and crawl to your keyboard and BEG my forgiveness!

    What’s funny is that if Jennifer just changed the tone ever so slightly she would sound like Gary Gunnels post rather than a dominatrix.

    Which raises a number of issues that I’d rather not ponder.

  103. Stevo-
    I’ll bet a new poll would show that women want a guy with a much better sense of timing than you have. It’s not the size of the locomotive, it’s whether the trains are running on time.

    Thoreau-
    Damn. Now I KNOW I’ll be banned.

  104. Jennifer — Personal preferences aside, I have to admit, your delivery is pretty good. You could probably turn pro.

    As for timing — I thought women wanted a slow hand?

  105. Sorry — I meant to post that at 7:21 PM.

  106. That’s MISTRESS Jennifer to you, scumbag. Don’t tell ME what women want.

  107. Don’t feel bad, Jennifer, being banned can happen to the best of us. Just look at me. I was confused for Gary when, in the thread announcing his departure, I had some fun. I started posting messages as “Jean Bart”, “The Merovingian”, “Croesus” (really old alias of his), and “Jason Bourne” all saying something to the effect of “You mean all of us are banned? ;)”

    FWIW, mostly I just post as thoreau. But if you see a message from an obviously joking handle (e.g. my message earlier today as Bill Clinton, where I denied having sexual relations with participants in a clinical trial of Plan B), it could very well be me. I don’t post serious messages under other aliases, just jokes.

    I think the Puppy Pope is Stevo Darkly, but I’m not sure.

  108. It’s been a long time since I had continuous fits of laughter from one thread.

    Many thanks. Who needs cable when you have H&R?

  109. Oops, forgot to remove the “darkly” from my handle. I needed it in another thread as part of a joke.

  110. 7:25 PM at the latest.

  111. Shit!

  112. Thoreau-
    Actually, after reading a few threads today, it sounds like I’m the only regular poster who HASN’T been banned at some point or other. I feel like such a goody two-shoes. Goddammit, who do I have to blow to get banned around here?

    Never mind. Forget the question. Nothing to see here.

  113. I must admit, being mentioned on smacky’s list made my day. I think I’ll start working on developing an aura of unattainability. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Kevin

  114. Soooooo, Gary Gunnels and Pete Rose, banned for life.

  115. Thoreau —

    I usually post as “Stevo Darkly” only, with very infrequent joke aliases.

    Jennifer —

    Goddammit, who do I have to blow to get banned around here?

    Like I said earlier, Tim is busy, but … oh, better not. You’d hurt me. I’m not so sure you’re “really not like that.”

    BTW, I’ve never been one to brag about my locomotive. It’ll get me to Oslo, that’s just about it. I’ve had to find other ways to compensate.

    Gotta go. Dinnertime, then knot-tying practice, then tongue exercises.

  116. Kevin — ditto. You asshole! ๐Ÿ™‚

    P.S. I meant to post this at 7:42 PM.

  117. I’m not shaking hands with any of your guys.

  118. I MEAN,

    I’m not shaking hands with any of YOU guys.

  119. TWC,

    Was that a Freudian slip?

  120. “I have discovered, quite by accident, that if you’re female, below the age of eighty and at a sci-fi convention, you attain automatic goddess status.”

    As a veteran game convention attendee (No, I don’t wear a costume, I might be a geek but I have SOME dignity) I can tell you from sad experience that picking up chicks at a con is a not as easy as you think. I’ve found that the attractive females who attend cons are with their boyfriends/husbands. The rest? Well, lets just say that 40-year-old, 400 lbs women SHOULDN’t be allowed to wear chainmail bikinis in public.

    I’m desperate, but not THAT desperate.

  121. ..picking up chicks at a con is a not as easy as you think. – Akira M.

    C’mon, Mac. Lift with your legs.

    Kevin
    (been to occasional SF & comics cons, myself.)

  122. I got banned once, but I wasn’t sure what did it exactly… I mean, it could’ve been one of a couple of things. I was kinda buckin’ a certain theme of successive posts by a single poster, day after day, in a rather rambunctious manner…

    …but then, on the same day I was banned, I was entirely curt and confrontational with this dude–I think I even called him a “dolt”, but I don’t think that’s what did it… It’s hard to switch gears sometimes, especially right after you’ve been sparring with torture apologists or some other species of droog…

    …at least it is for me.

    Then again, maybe I was banned for the excessive and incorrect use of ellipses… …But, hey, that goes all the way back to my impressionable years in high school! I read Death on the Installment Plan, and it’s been ellipses all over the place ever since…

    It’s nice to know I can still get banned from something… …in a way.

  123. Late to the party, but couldn’t resist putting this bit from The Onion up:

    Woman At Farscape Convention Has Dangerously Inflated Self-Image
    BURBANK, CA?Paulette Osley, 24, a moderately attractive fan of the Sci-Fi Channel series Farscape, had her self-image inflated to dangerous levels during the three-day ScaperCon 2004,…

  124. Rob-

    This one’s good too:

    Plan To Get Laid At DragonCon 2001 Fails
    CALHOUN FALLS, SC?Garry Melcher’s plans to have sexual intercourse at last weekend’s DragonCon 2001 were unsuccessful, the 27-year-old comic-book collector and science-fiction fan conceded Tuesday.

  125. Ken.. do you still have my copy of “Death on the Installment Plan.”

  126. Yeesh. After making that comment last night about “who do I have to blow” I didn’t just get banned from Hit and Run; my whole goddamn Internet connection went down!

    I fear the power of the Libertarian Editors in Leather. I really do.

  127. Ken – that one’s funny! I actually went to plenty of cons when I was young. The closest thing to hooking up for me was the creepy guy who kept trying to get me to come up to his hotel room when I was about 15.

    Luckily for me, my aunt was there and explained to the guy that if he didn’t piss off she was going to paralyze for life from the waist down.
    She could’ve done it too, she was an extremely proficient judoka from her years in Japan.

    She was a big influence in my life – from studying martial arts to introducing me to great science fiction. She was ALWAYS the coolest chick at the Con.

  128. TWC: I’m not shaking hands with any of you guys.

    Hey, will you lend me your handkerchief? Quick!

  129. After making that comment last night about “who do I have to blow” I didn’t just get banned from Hit and Run; my whole goddamn Internet connection went down!

    No commment.

  130. Thoreau-
    Well, I hope Gillespie and Co. enjoyed it, ’cause God knows I didn’t.

    I totally didn’t catch the double-entendre in that comment, but in my defense I’ll point out that it WAS six-ten in the morning.

  131. Well, I’m also in a rather silly mood. I worked on my thesis until 3:30 am (6:30 your time) and just woke up a half hour ago (12:30 your time).

  132. …so did I hear something about a money-making scheme? If so, that would be great, since life on my own already has me by the proverbial ‘balls’ financially.

  133. Smacky-
    I can’t go into too many details here at work, but here are some hints: role-playing. You’re good cop, I’m bad cop. (We can switch from time to time so we don’t get bored.) Lonely Libertarian guys on Hit and Run. We’re basically the only two females who post on a regular basis.

    Now do you see where I’m coming from?

  134. Ahhh…..I see, I see.

    (an evil peal of glee breaks across my face)

    I must let this capital-creating idea fester in my brain awhile, so that I can try to find a way to market this…but it’s looking brilliant, Jennifer.

    [Lightbulb]

    How about we rent out the Ultimate Fitness Plan ad space? We’d have prime advertising real estate there.

  135. Ultimate Fitness Program , sorry.

  136. Hot Libertarian Chicks–ah yes, this could work. I’ll teach you a few stunts I learned in college, whilst working as an exotic dancer.

  137. Tho-Row and Jennifer,

    that brings to mind a question that has bothered me forever. Just exactly what does it mean when someone says the computer went down on them?

  138. TWC-
    It depends on whether the speaker is male or female.

  139. We’re basically the only two females who post on a regular basis.

    The sad thing is, I’m beginning to realize that that is more true than I previously thought. I used to think that was an exaggeration, mostly because I mistook some male posters for female posters (e.g. clarityiniowa, cdunlea, etc…). I slowly found out, as I hung around here, that one by one I had been mistaking them for women when in fact, by and large, we are amidst a sausage party. I’ll bring the noisemakers.

  140. You say sausage party, I say easy pickings. It’s all the same.

  141. RE: mistaking them for women. Yeah, I just learned that Akira is a guy.

  142. Smacky, there are no female libertarians. Here or anywhere else. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Okay, there’s Virginia & Cathy Young & Lisa the Education chick at Reason.

    Today there is much greater parity in libertarian leadership positions but it hasn’t been very long since the days when CATO Institute had exactly zero women working there. Gossip at the time was that CATO was sexist and/or the gay guys working there hated women.

    Reason, OTOH, has never had the glass ceiling and has always had a goodly share of women on its staff and not just for making coffee. ๐Ÿ™‚

    But for all intents and purposes, rank and file libertarian guys outnumber women something like 90 to 1.

    The Good News?

    It used to be worse.

  143. TWC,
    Ditto on Akira.

    smaky and Jennifer,
    All good performers need a pim…um…business manager. You know, a manly man with rough hands for rough work (and some accounting knowledge).

  144. Jennifer: Wait, there’s one more we’re forgetting: Serafina. She can hold the bull whip (she’d be the ringmaster, if she’s willing). Unless you’d rather keep it a two-woman act (less profit-splitting that way…)

    Sorry, PintofStout. We’re libertarian chicks, and we can take care of our own financial matters. Besides, I bet Jennifer would be a pretty rough cop herself. (pun intended)

    TWC: you forgot Kerry Howley. Or is that a guy, too?

    Now the one question I have still is: exactly where and how do we turn the profits on this scheme? Shall it be a PPV website?

  145. Other libertarian chicks:

    I happened to click on Kerry Howley’s bio recently and she is not only a female, but a rather babely one.

    I think Angela Keaton of liberatedspace.com lurks here because she occasionally posts.

    Just exactly what does it mean when someone says the computer went down on them?

    I just want to know, when the server goes down on me, how come this always happens at the office, and never at Hooters?

  146. We’re basically the only two females who post on a regular basis.

    Quality, not quantity.

  147. I just want to know, when the server goes down on me, how come this always happens at the office, and never at Hooters?-Stevo Darkly

    You must have soft feminine hands.

  148. I like big, hairy, CLEAN, manly men because 1) I am not comfortable getting friendly with men whom I might conceivably be able to beat up, and 2) big hairy manly men, in the main, can fix stuff and kill bugs. Fixing stuff and killing bugs is important to me, and I don’t like to do either. I think it’s an evolution thing, at least the fixing stuff and killing bugs part – those guys, it seems to me, would be the better protectors and therefore better mates.

    Anyone ever see the Sex and the City episode where Charlotte is dating the straight-but-acts-gay guy, and they’re all thinking the metrosexual thing is great, till one morning there’s a mouse in Metrosexual Man’s kitchen and he freaks twice as hard as Charlotte does? He’s useless. And Charlotte thinks – hmm, icky. Back to the manly men.

  149. There’s nothing more womanly than those frantic shrieks of, “KILL IT! KILL IT!

  150. Stevo, LOL at Hooters, although if you were at the Norco Ca Hooters you wouldn’t care–they could use those chicks as a defense against the ongoing allegations of you-know-what

    Did forget about Kerry Howley because she is pretty new.

  151. stubby,
    The one thing I learned living with two women is that a man needs to do certain things to be useful enough to be kept around:
    1) Fix things that are broken
    2) Kill/scare off animals shorter than 3 inches tall
    3) Serve as an enforcer to ward off sketchy men at bars and to scare off crazy ex-boyfriends (one advantage of being brown with a fro, no one knows what to expect from you, it’s the equivalent of 4 extra inches of height and 30 lbs of muscle)
    4) Brute force

    Pretty much everything else can be outsourced to other women, machines and day laborers.

  152. Brute force is defined as strength to open jars and move heavy objects.

    Oh and stubby makes yet another female commenter.

  153. Bullwhip, riding crop, stiletto…I’m comfortable wielding any of them.

  154. I like big, hairy, CLEAN, manly men because 1) I am not comfortable getting friendly with men whom I might conceivably be able to beat up, and 2) big hairy manly men, in the main, can fix stuff and kill bugs. Fixing stuff and killing bugs is important to me, and I don’t like to do either. I think it’s an evolution thing, at least the fixing stuff and killing bugs part – those guys, it seems to me, would be the better protectors and therefore better mates.

    When my wife and I moved into the country (i.e., my parent’s ranch), my status went way up.

    She previously couldn’t understand how anyone could kill a cute rabbit. After rabbits tore up her garden, her response to rabbits was “kill it! kill it!”. Of course, my grandma was just fine killing her own rabbits, and my greatgrandma faced off Indians with a rifle.

  155. stubby,
    What’s with the female attraction to the hair? It’s not necessary for ass kicking, jar opening or bug killing. Not that I’m complaining, I have the requisite Arab body hair quotient so it serves me well, but I always wondered about that.

  156. Mo: on the off chance that anyone is still checking in on this thread: I don’t know why women go for the hairy guys. Maybe it’s another evolutionary leftover? Note, however, that there are limits to a hairy man’s attractiveness. A normal amount of body hair = good. A grizzly bear = not good. Anyway, there seems to be something vaguely effiminate about a guy with no body hair (unless he’s of an ethnic persuasion that has little of it, like Native Americans).

    You’re right – killing the little things and fixing the broken things is still something most of us think is best left to men.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.