The Low Cost of Eating Right

How much does it cost to comply with new government dietary guidelines?

About $5.00 a day, says Wash Post writer Sally Squires.

So what's the bottom line? A little more than $5 for a full day's worth of modestly priced nutritious food (including oatmeal, milk, fresh fruit; beans and rice; whole grain and white bread, a hearty salad and a cup of peas). That's about the cost of one average fast-food meal.

Whole thing here.

Jacob Sullum noted the low cost of healthy snacks in a great Reason story about the War of Fat. Grab a sack of chips carrot strips and read it online here.

And enjoy some fat jokes here.

Comments

[Evan Williams]

But, hey, wait a minute...I thought that the cause of the obesity "ep-i-dem-ic!" was that junk food was so cheap!

Yet another food-nanny bubble is burst. Of course, that bubble never passed muster any damn way. I get whey protein powder at the stupid-cheap rate of $3.29/lb. I get eggs at the stupid-cheap rate of $2.50 for 3 dozen (which, at that price, means you can afford to throw away some yolks).

Our food, more than any other time in history, is bountiful and cheap, all around (the "organic" trend at ripoff-joints like Whole Paycheck notwithstanding). Sooner or later, the food nannies are going to have to come to grips with the simple fact that people like food that tastes good, even if it's not that great for you, and even if they KNOW it's not great for you. The foodnannies' existence depends on keeping up the charade, though: assuming that, if they only knew "the truth", that the whole of Americans would choose to eat mung bean sprouts and carrot sticks all day. So they float these bubbles out there..."it's cuz junk food is so cheap!" "it's because McDonalds doesn't disclose their nutritional facts on a big enough billboard!" And time and time again, these bubbles are burst. The question is, will they ever concede? Or will they just keep coming up with new excuses to justify their pathetic existence?

[c]

I went looking for someone who identified themselves as a "foodnanny" to answer the question "Will you ever concede? Or will you just keep coming up with new excuses to justify your pathetic existence?" but I had no takers. I take that as a "no."

[Evan Williams]

This is completely off-topic, but I wanted to call attention to it anyway. I was at foxnews.com reading a Balko article, and I sees an ad banner at the top reading "fox news honors Black History Month". The kicker? The "Black History Month" part was written in "tagging" style, as in, graffiti-like, as in, alluding to the ghet-toe. I'm not outraged or anything, I just found it amusing that someone at Foxnews.com could be such a dumbass.

[Gary Gunnels]

Evan Williams,

Slightly off topic, but strangely enough, just the other day someone was telling me what a glorious paradise of food delights Cuba is and how many people were starving to death in the U.S. (no, not poor nutrition, that's right, starving to death - as in dying purely from lack of food).

[Twba]

What was your reaction, Gary? I would have burst into laughter.

[Nostradumbass]

Seeing as I am diabetic, that 'healthy meal' in the blurb above would kill me in the long run, and in the short term would probably make me obese.

[clarityiniowa]

An analysis of the human teeth and gut reveals that we are omnivores, similar to rats and racoons, which means we are set up to eat practicially anything. We have lots of pointy teeth, and teeth with sharp edges because we evolved as hunter-gatherers rather than gather-hunters, and in absolute terms, it's more efficient to eat meat than grains and legumes. Then we got smart and planted a garden and raised a few cattle in the back yard. Look where we are now. Proof positive: Intelligence makes you fat.

[clarityiniowa]

When I meat a vegetarian, I try to get them to smile. Kind of tough sometimes, they're such a cranky bunch. "If we were supposed to eat that way," I tell them, "we'd have a mouth like Barney the Dinosaur - all molars."

[Gary Gunnels]

Twba,

I have to admit that I was, well, speechless (as you can imagine, that's a rare quality in me). I just essentially walked away. I doubt anyone that far gone is worth me spending my time on.

[SPD]

"An analysis of the human teeth and gut reveals that we are omnivores, similar to rats and racoons, which means we are set up to eat practicially anything. We have lots of pointy teeth, and teeth with sharp edges because we evolved as hunter-gatherers rather than gather-hunters, and in absolute terms, it's more efficient to eat meat than grains and legumes."

clarityiniowa,

The crunchies say, "Nuh-UH!" 🙂

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

[Gary Gunnels]

Twba,

BTW, this comment came after a comment by me detailing some of the human rights abuses engaged in by the Cuban government and detailed in reports by the UN and Amnesty International.

Anyway, I believe his retort was a way of undermining my statement. He was essentially saying yeah, well, that may be, but at least they are eating well! If I'd have waited around I probably would have heard a diatribe on Cuba's healthcare system as well.

Quite honestly, I do not understand the Cuba fetish that some on the left have.

[Twba]

I hope Castro assumes room temperature sooner rather than later. Freedom will shake loose many tales of woe that will be difficult for leftists to avoid.

[Isaac Bartram]

Quite honestly, I do not understand the Cuba fetish that some on the left have.

It has something to do with what a great INTELLECTUAL Fidel is. Or at least that's how I understand it from family members who are leftists.

We in the US are burdened with crass business types without the the great vision and genius of Castro.

(Having heard this rant on regular basis, I shake head, roll eyes and walk away)

[Twba]

To find out why so many poor Americans are obese, go to a grocery store on the first of the month. Look at the contents of the carts pushed by food stamp recipients.

[Gary Gunnels]

Sorry to take this off topic.

[SPD]

Do you think sensible eating is the first priority of anyone using food stamps? I doubt many of them are reading nutrition-related items in the newspaper.

[Twba]

Few read anything. They eat in front of the telly.

[SPD]

Hey! I eat in front of the... oh.

[crimethink]

I just essentially walked away. I doubt anyone that far gone is worth me spending my time on.

So I guess those of us you "spend your time on" should be flattered?

😉

[M1EK]

"But, hey, wait a minute...I thought that the cause of the obesity "ep-i-dem-ic!" was that junk food was so cheap!"

Well, duh. Fast food is cheaper than restaurant healthy food. It's cheaper than grocery store healthy food, but so is grocery store junk food.

(the "junk" frozen pizza I bought yesterday for my stepson and I cost $2.00 total - providing 4 servings of pizza at 50 cents each - I can tell you that cooking a healthy meal costs at least twice that).

[Jon]

I know, I know, I'm an utter bastard, but I used to use this same argument about the homeless back in the 90's (whatever happened to them anyway...did they all find homes?) A person could get a head of lettuce, some onions, a bag of potatoes, basically more nutritious food than a person could gag down in a week for less than $5. And Top Ramen is STILL ten cents a pack. If you ever want to slash your food budget, start eating healthful foods (organic and free-range not included).

[M1EK]

whoops, that should be:

restaurant junk food much cheaper than restaurant healthy food

grocery store junk food much cheaper than grocery store health food

MAYBE, IF YOU'RE LUCKY: fast food slightly more expensive than grocery store health food.

[ed]

It has less to do with the cost of eating healthy than it does with the time it takes to prepair healthy foods. A better comparison is fast food to restaurants.

[joe]

Most restaurant meals aren't too healthy either. I used to work in kitchens, and meals that any normal person would prepare with vegetable oil are prepared with butter of lard, to make them taste better.

Jon, "I used to use this same argument about the homeless back in the 90's (whatever happened to them anyway...did they all find homes?) A person could get a head of lettuce, some onions, a bag of potatoes, basically more nutritious food than a person could gag down in a week for less than $5." And cook them...where?

Strictly on topic, maybe comparing the scratch ingredients of one diet to fully prepared takeout meals from another diet isn't a Butterfinger-to-Butterfinger comparison?

[Jon]

Joe,
I figured someone would ask that eventually. When I was in the Infantry we routinely cooked our Top Ramen in a canteen cup (available at all fine military surplus stores nationwide) over a can of sterno (available at Wal-Mart, K-Mart and anyplace else with the word "mart" in its name) under "tactical" conditions. If I could cook a hot meal without the enemy seeing me, I'm quite sure civilians can burn a little sterno without getting busted by "the man".

[joe]

Were you addicted to drugs or mentally ill at the time?

Hold on - I just figured it out. If you agree with the Reason staff that neither of things circumstances exist, then the problem goes away.

[Gary Gunnels]

crimethink,

Damn right.

[speedwell]

I'm a vegetarian--my food bills are extremely low--my health is better--my tongue is out...

No, seriously, I love it when some self-identified libertarian pothead busies himself with the gripping, threatening question of what groceries I choose to buy and eat. I don't care what HE eats, and I don't particularly even care IF he eats.

[Dynamist]

joe: Switch the homeless to apples, carrots, and peanuts. No cooking required.

Drug addiction and mental illness are not food-supply or nutrition problems. By forcing "society" to support people in their poor choices, we create problems for the fully functional and avoid putting responsibility on the bad actors.

You must have read "Nickel and Dimed", in which Ehrenreich demonstrates that you must make stupid choices in order to be miserable.

[Evan Williams]

M1EK says,

"Fast food is cheaper than restaurant healthy food. It's cheaper than grocery store healthy food, but so is grocery store junk food.

(the "junk" frozen pizza I bought yesterday for my stepson and I cost $2.00 total - providing 4 servings of pizza at 50 cents each - I can tell you that cooking a healthy meal costs at least twice that)."

Your anecdote regarding a frozen pizza notwithstanding, the only fact that might have any bearing on this is the amount of preservatives and processed ingredients in junk food. But as Squires points out, you CAN eat healthy for cheap. I do it. It's not that hard. The obesity "epidemic" isn't caused by cheap junk food, it's caused by personal choices. Lardasses would rather eat doritos than carrot sticks, because they taste better. I can get some carrot sticks for the price of doritos, but they don't taste as good. It's all about choice.

As for the whole "healthy restaurant menu items cost more than unhealthy items" meme, ahem, um, what the FUCK might you be talking about? If anything, vegetarian dishes are typically cheaper at restaurants. Not that vegetarian=healthy, but, I would LOVE to see you show me some sort of evidence proving that there is a correlation between price and healthiness on restaurant menus. Hmmm...methinks you're just pullin' that one out yer ass.

Yes, there is a premium price for "health foods", but it's that way for any specialty foods. One doesn't need to walk down the healthfood aisle or spend $300 at Whole Paycheck to eat healthy, however. Boneless skinless chicken breasts cost like $13 for about 10 breasts at Sam's Club. Eggs cost, as I said, $2.50 for 3 dozen. Green peppers and onions and lettuce are all cheap as hell. On the other hand, packaged forzen Mexican dinners from Trader Joe's cost about $3, and with some cottage cheese and salsa, they're a meal for 2, and a fuck of alot more healthy than your bargain basement nasty ass tony's frozen grease pie that you were talking about.

So, just give it up...if one cares about one's health, it is easy to eat healthy on a budget. This is all about if one cares...not about food prices. But, then again, in the grand tradition of the United States of America over the last 50 years, it's always someone else's fault, isn't it? "Responsibility? Huh? What's that? I'm fat cuz fast food is cheap and healthy food is expensive. Yup." No, pal, you're fat because you don't take care of yourself...which is fine, but just admit it already, and stop trying to place the blame on some spooky external conspiracy.

[joe]

"The obesity "epidemic" isn't caused by cheap junk food, it's caused by personal choices."

Choices made based on incentives.

The most important being the greater convenience, not price, of junk. Go find the vending machines in your workplace, and let me know what you discover.

[SPD]

...or the $1 menu at Mickey D's.

[SPD]

Seriously, though, there are plenty of alternatives out there now which are both inexpensive and healthier. Just drive a few hundred feet further past the golden arches and you'll find a Boston Market. Or perhaps have a nice Subway sandwich?

I still can't deny myself the occasional Big Mac, even if I do get a nasty case of the poops an hour later.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Choices, period.

[crimethink]

joe,

But why do the vending machines carry Doritos and Snickers instead of carrot sticks and soy nuts?

[SPD]

I think it's because the half-life of an undisturbed bag of Doritos is approximately 7,000 years, or about as long as they stay on your breath after eating them.

[Ironchef]

Hmm,

The vending machines at my place of work (a government agency) sell (in addition to the usual junk food): bottled water, fruit juices (low suger too), some sort of rice cake snacks (ew), sugar free gum, etc. . .

Of course these machines reside in a staffed canteen, where there are plenty of healthy and non-healthy (overpriced) snacks. But the staff leaves at 4:00! The horror!! For those few people who don't leave here at 4:00 to go home after a tough 7.5 hour day (easily less than half of the workforce), they must get all their fat from those unhealthy "incentives" of the vending machines.

And boy, are there many many fatasses around here. (I said this was government work)

Oops. It's 4:13 EST - time to go home.

[SPD]

I just paid $1.40 for two vending-machine candy bars. I just thought you'd all like to know that for some reason.

Ironchef -- love the name, love the show. My favorite is the Japanese chef who resembles Charles Bronson. Sakai, I think.

[smacky]

And Top Ramen is STILL ten cents a pack.

Jon,

Are you suggesting that Top Ramen is a healthy choice? (or ramen soups in general)? That shit is *awful* for you. Loaded with sodium and MSG, deep-fried in fat, high in calories. The fact that that crap is sold as food is probably one of the largest (pun intended) reasons for college weight gain in the U.S.

[smacky]

sorry, didn't close off my bold HTML correctly.

[Jennifer]

Ramen isn't too bad if you focus on the noodles, throw away the MSG flavor packet, and add a little olive oil, some pepper and some grated parmesan-romano cheese. Not something you'd want to eat every day, and not likely to win any health-food awards, I'll admit, but that plus a Flintstone's vitamin makes a good, quick breakfast once in awhile when you're too tired to fix anything else.

[Big G]

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Now you're really throwing me off. I thought 1 in 5 children went to bed hungry. Someone needs to get their facts straight. Or maybe they all just need to go to hell.

[Phil]

Just for the record, it's entirely possible -- and not even unusual -- to eat nothing but healthy, fresh food and end up several dozen pounds overweight, and to eat nothing but shitty snack and junk foods and be thin as a rail. There's a lot more than goes into these things than simply diet. And I, for one, get tired of seeing fat people stereotyped as Twinkie-mainlining, Oreo-hoovering couch potatoes when the truth is generally a lot more complicated.

[Ammonium]

How can we call ourselves a democracy when it costs $5 a day to eat healthy? $5 a day for a mother and her three kids takes all the money she is making at Walmart. Add to that the cost of her car to get to Walmart as well as her cell phone and cable television bill, and you've got somebody who is drowning in credit card debt, not even able pay the monthly interest!

When will our country see that we can no longer let Big Food bankrupt our families just so their executives can have their $100 steaks at dinner every night?

The only solution to make healthy food affordable for working people and their children is greater limits on the unhealthy food being sent in from abroad as well as more agricultural subsidies for American companies like ADM. Oh, and an elimination of all non-union supermarkets.

[Twba]

Evan,

I finally checked out the foxnews site. I don't think the font is tagger style, it is chalk on blackboard style.

[Evan Williams]

Joe says,

"Choices made based on incentives.

The most important being the greater convenience, not price, of junk. Go find the vending machines in your workplace, and let me know what you discover."

Incentivized choices? The convenience of junk food is an incentive to buy it, but the healthiness of whole fruits & vegetables is an incentive to buy them. Junk food has no more "incentives" than healthy food; those incentives just differ: Convenience incentives vs. health incentives. The convenience of junk food, and the "incentive" to consume it due to said convenience, are, like anything else, matters of preference and prioritization. Of course, I could go down to the basement of my office and snag a sack of Doritos for $1.75, and the whole trip would take me about 3 minutes. On the other hand, I could (and do) go down to my car, drive about 1/2 mile to the local produce market, buy a sack of apples (@ $.69/lb) and sweet potatoes (@ $.39/lb), and then drive back. The whole trip takes me about 10 minutes, if there's not a big line. See, I make the choice to trade those measly 7 minutes or so for healthy food. Even with incentives of convenience, it's still all a matter of prioritization, which is still a matter of personal choice.

The fact that Doritos and Snickers are filled with preservatives that allow them to stay fresh for much longer than apples & yams, means that their price and convenience are relatively favorable to driving to the store to buy healthy food. Actually, scratch that. Given the prices I listed above for apples & yams, Doritos are much more expensive per calorie. Anyway, the point is, life is about prioritization and valuation...trade-offs abound. For some people, those 7 minutes that I spend driving to the market are not worth the benefits of healthy food. Their priorities are different than mine. It's not about incentives, it's about priorities. If health is a priority, you will gladly trade 7 minutes for good food. If convenience is a priority, then you would rather save 7 minutes and eat the nasty doritos.

That processed, preserved foods keep longer than fresh, whole foods, is a fact of life. It cannot be "blamed" for our problems, it just is. The blame lies in our priorities, which we are all personally responsible for.

[Twba]

Did you see 28 Days Later? The irradiated fruit was still looking good.

[Twba]

You drive a half-mile to get food? You lazy American. You should walk briskly to the market and to maximize your fitness, drop and do a set of hindu pushups every 100 meters.

[M1EK]

Evan,

Your ill-mannered rant doesn't deserve a response longer than this one:

If you haven't observed the simple fact that you can eat restaurant fast food far cheaper than you can eat restaurant health food, you're an ignorant jackass.

[Twba]

I don't know where to get restaurant health food, so I am in no position to judge M1EK's assertion. I do know that good food is cheap at the grocery store near my house. Many people are just too lazy to cook the good food. They choose to eat crap and pay extra to avoid cooking. Obesity is here to stay.

[mojoe]

Evan,
But think of the tons of pollution your car is expelling into the environment as you drive 7 minutes to the grocery store.
The way I see it we either destroy the environment, or ourselves. And I think it was the great Mr. Spock that said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
Pass the gravy, please.

[dhex]

"If you haven't observed the simple fact that you can eat restaurant fast food far cheaper than you can eat restaurant health food, you're an ignorant jackass."

steamed veggies and salads (plus water, which if tap is always free) and maybe a nice side of tea is more expensive than cheeseburgers, et al?

[Phil]

I can almost guarantee that at, say, Wendy's, a side salad, baked potato and calorie-free diet soda is not significantly different in price from a single cheesburger, fries and a soda, M1EK.

[B.P.]

Maybe I'm ignorant too, M1EK, but it seems to me there are more dining choices than eating at restaurants alone.

And the salad at my favorite restaurant is much cheaper than the steak and mashed potatoes.

[zeroentitlement]

Joe, the incentives are the health hazards themselves. The reason junk food is cheap is because they've stretched the ingredients by adding hydrogenated oils and high-fructose corn syrup to avoid putting in the really good stuff. And these things are even worse for you than the originals they're meant to simulate.

Most of the po' folks carts are full of prepared/overprocessed food because they're not the best cooks. When they do try to make healthy food, their kids won't eat it. So they get the cheap, greasy, salty stuff that they know the kids will eat. The gub'mint's got this all bass-ackwards as usual. They don't need warning labels, they need to know how to cook without ruining food, and they missed their chance (they were too busy getting knocked up and high during Home Ec class back in school, which is why they're po' now). They need a ghetto cooking show on PBS, where instead of using Zabar's sh*t like hand-stomped organic paprika and hand-pressed extra-virgin olive oil, you've got recipes with (1) cheap ground meat, (2) cheap vegetables that kids will eat, (3) vegetable oil, and (4) a can of cream of mushroom soup.

This whole obesity hysteria thing is a crock of crap. I'm a fatass, and my rock-climbing superjock co-worker has been to the doctor more times in the past year (for various stupid things she does on rocks/ledges) than I've been in the last ten years. Come to think of it, all my sports-obsessed friends and co-workers are always in physical therapy, or getting X-rays, or at the podiatrist, or you name it. Just leave us the f--- alone and let us eat what we want. F'in lifestyle cops, I can't stand 'em.

[Vince Daliessio]

I don't think anybody has commented on the malevolent contributions government meddling has added to this area. Take just one program - federal tarriffs and supports for US sugar plantation owners, which results in sugar prices 300-500% above the world market price, which results in the use of cheaper substitutes such as what, class? High-fructose corn syrup you say? Very good! And why is HFCS so cheap? Price supports for corn growers? Very good! You are getting the hang of this...

Or, how about this - the USDA "Food Pyramid". Virtually any independent source of nutritional information makes mincemeat out of the USDA's overemphasis on eating carbs. So why does the USDA persist in pushing carbs on us? To create more demand for corn, wheat, and other grains they subsidize? Very good again class!

I'm telling ya, I have a class full of geniuses...

[M1EK]

Those "salad choices" pretty much make the point that you guys aren't remotely serious here.

A full healthy meal isn't a side salad and a baked potato. If that's all you ate, you'd be almost as bad off as you would with the hamburger and fries.

The cheapest vegetarian restaurants around here (Austin) run around $5/meal; I can eat a full meal at McDonald's down the street for $2 plus tax.

[Phil]

A Wendy's spring mix salad w/fat free ranch dressing is 260 calories, with 11g of fat, 30g of carbs, and 11g of protein. A baked potato is 270 calories, 0g of fat, 61 g of carbs, 7g of protein. A diet soda is 0 calories, resulting in a total meal of 530 calories. For a normal adult male eating around 2,000 calories a day, 500-600 calories at lunch is just about right. (And only about 20% of those calories are from fat.)

A Wendy's single with everything on it is 430 calories, 20g of fat, 37g of carbs, 35g of protein. Fries are 490 calories, 24g of fat, 69g of carbs, 5g of protein. A regular soda is 120 calories. That's 1,040 calories, or a little more than half of one's daily intake, in a single meal, including 390 fat calories (37.8%).

Those two meals are about the same price. If you are honestly contending that they have roughly the same nutritional value, then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Not even a little bit.

[Evan Williams]

M1EK says,

"Your ill-mannered rant doesn't deserve a response longer than this one:

If you haven't observed the simple fact that you can eat restaurant fast food far cheaper than you can eat restaurant health food, you're an ignorant jackass.

It seems that, judging by the numerous smackdowns of your assertion by other posters, the jackass is ye.

You're grasping frantically, M1EK, and it's a little sad. Here's the fact of the matter: I can get the Subway sub-o-the-month for $1.99. Yes, $1.99. I can get salads with grilled chicken at most fast food joints (and yes, I am "serious", a salad with some grilled chicken IS a meal!) I can get sliced turkey @ Boston Market. Of course, McDonalds, on the whole, costs less than a full-service restaurant like Chili's, but, then, that's not got much to do with health, but instead, quality & service. Not to mention that one can go into any chain restaurant and spend a great deal of money on stuff that is NOT good for you.

Your argument makes no logical sense. All you say is "fast food is cheaper than restaurant food". But that proves nothing other than "full service costs more than fast food service". Big fucking revelation!

On the other hand, I will offer myself up as an example as to why you are very wrong. I am a bodybuilder, and I prepare most of my meals. I eat much more than the average potbellied joe sixpack...yet, if I relied on restaurant food, even McDonalds junk, to feed myself, I would be spending rediculous amounts of money every day. The simple fact is that you can actually save money by preparing meals yourself, and in addition, can control the nutrient makeup of those meals more closely. Thus, it is actually cheaper to eat at home, which gives you full control over how healthy your meal is. However, if you must eat out, then that too can be done healthily on the cheap.

Sorry, pal, but making the "surprising" observation that fast food is cheaper than full-service food h'aint gonna cut it. There's cheap food everywhere, good and bad---what I don't understand is why it's so hard for people like you to come to grips with the fact that this isn't about money or convenience, it's about personal priorities.

[M1EK]

Evan,

The length and ferocity of your responses is showing everybody else here the bankruptcy of your position.

The fact is that "healthy food" simply isn't available as "fast food". A subway sub isn't what people are talking about when they want you to eat healthy. It's healthIER, but nowhere near where we're supposedly supposed to be.

[M1EK]

Phil,

The point is what you're NOT getting from the Wendy's salad -- the truly healthy meal provides a lot more vitamins than the mainly iceberg-lettuce salads at Wendy's (which I like, by the way).

Eating to the federal guidelines simply isn't possible at fast food restaurants, unless you generously stretch the definitions of fruit and vegetables.

[Evan Williams]

m1ek says, "The length and ferocity of your responses is showing everybody else here the bankruptcy of your position."

A) Post length has no inherent bearing on the content therein. Though, I would surmise that the bankruptcy of one's position is evident when that person resorts to attacking said length of his critics. Is this the best you can do? "Your post is long, so you must be wrong". Nice.

B) One who first throws stones should not complain of "ferocious" return fire. It was you who first asserted that if I did not agree with you, I was an "ignorant jackass". Anyhow, you take me much too seriously, as most of that post was tongue-in-cheek to begin with.

The fact is that "healthy food" simply isn't available as "fast food""

Again, you are simply wrong, on many levels. First, the health of one's diet is dependent on the whole of that person's lifestyle. For example, if you eat healthy food 9 out of 10 meals, then you are still doing pretty good. Regardless of that, however, the fact is that, yes, one can find healthy food at fast food restaurants. No, I would not suggest eating 3 meals a day at McDonalds, but, then, anyone who is that much of a fool deserves to be in poor health.

Furthermore, you have no reasonable expectation to find a "complete healthy diet" at fast food restaurants. If all they served was whoppers, then, oh well. You act as if, since the convenient food industry doesn't cater to complete healthy diets, that it is for some reason to blame for health problems. This is absurd. It is up to you, and you only, to prioritize your diet-and, as I have shown, this can be done without spending a fortune at Whole Foods. You continually bunny-hop between peripheral issues, while never addressing the real one. I wonder why that is... ;->

"A subway sub isn't what people are talking about when they want you to eat healthy. It's healthIER, but nowhere near where we're supposedly supposed to be"

"Supposedly supposed to be"? "what people are talking about"? Given how I have sculpted my diet to fit my lifestyle, I quite frankly don't give a shit what "people are talking about". Everyone is different, and while subway may not be a complete meal 3 times a day, it is a healthier option. But then, nobody is advocating subway subs 3 times a day. You keep acting as if there is some sort of "bottom line" when it comes to diets, and this is simply not true. This is about overall lifestyle, the collective sum total of your everyday nutrition & activity...the offerings on a Burger King menu are simply details. But, you seem to suppose that everyone in this country is incapable of sculpting a diet of their own, and the cheapness and convenience of junk food is the culprit.

Again, it's sad how people like you refuse to face the real issue, which is personal nutritional and lifestyle prioritization. You blame the choices...when it is the choosers who are to blame for their poor prioritization. But, then, these are their choices to make, no one else's.

[M1EK]

Evan,

Type less, read more. Summarizing, again, since you still don't get it:

1. Junk food at restaurant is cheaper than healthy food at restaurant. Period.

2. Junk food at grocery store is cheaper then healthy food at grocery store. Period.

You keep mixing up the two, by claiming that I'm full of crap for saying that fast food is cheaper than cooking a healthy meal, for instance.

Get it straight. Again, talking less and listening more would help you (a lot).

[Evan Williams]

1. Junk food at restaurant is cheaper than healthy food at restaurant. Period.

Your attempt to "put your foot down" and end all debate by supplementing your declaration with "period!", is a cute, but transparent, tactic; nonetheless, this is, as I and many others have pointed out, simply not some "universal truth" as you would have us believe. A grilled chicken salad is not more expensive than a big mac meal at McD's. The grilled chicken salad at a place like Chili's is not more expensive than the big fatty sirloin or the "big mouth burger".

Time and time again, I point this out, and time and time again, you tell me that "I don't get it". Oh, I get it, you just refuse to acknowledge my (and others') repeated evidence of your errors.

2. Junk food at grocery store is cheaper then healthy food at grocery store. Period.

Ah, again with the "period". You don't get the final word just because you add that to your assertions. Sorry. Again, you are wrong, and I have pointed this out before. It may be true in certain instances, but it is not universally true. As I have said, I get chicken breasts for $2.75/lb. I get sweet potatos for $.39/lb. I get apples for $.69/lb. All healthy food, all cheap. So, m1ek, why don't you give me the per pound price of doritos and chips ahoy? Let's see how they compare.

Your assertions are not universally false, but they are not universally true either (as you would have us believe, given the whole "I'm right, PERIOD!" schtick.) Some junk food is cheaper, but this is not always the case.