Middlebrow Industry Circle-Jerk Ahead!

I suppose we should acknowledge the Oscar nominations. I won't reprint the whole list, but here's what's up for Best Picture:

The Aviator
Finding Neverland
Million Dollar Baby
Ray
Sideways

I've seen only two of those, Million Dollar Baby and Sideways. I liked them both, but I wouldn't say either was the best of the year.

Needless to say, that won't disqualify them from winning. Depending on how you count, 76 or 77 movies have won the Best Picture Oscar; I've seen all but two. Some are good and some are bad, but they're hardly ever the best anything of the year.

Full disclosure: I'm one of the two dozen or so Americans who really liked The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou, so my taste might be just as suspect as the Academy's.

Comments

[Brian]

I'm one of the two dozen or so Americans who really liked The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou,

...and I thought I was the only one! (snif)

That Eternal Sunshine did not get nominated is utterly unfathomable to me.

But then again, I haven't seen any of the nominees...

[Brett]

I liked Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou as well. It had some slow spots, but also some LOL spots.

I still cannot believe that Scorcese has never won best director, nor has he ever directed a movie that won best picture.

[sage]

Hey, Jennifer Connelly was brilliant in Requiem for a Dream, but she gets the Oscar for A Beautiful Mind. Go figure. Maybe they didn't like the 'Ass to Ass' scene.

[Brett]

Uh, that would be Scorsese.

[Brett]

Maybe they didn't like the 'Ass to Ass' scene.

Funny you should mention that...I made my wife watch that movie last week and she is still scarred by that scene.

Ellen Burstyn was great in that as well.

[sage]

Brett,

I bet Juanita would view that flick as a comedy. If there's any movie out there that could scare someone out of doing drugs, that's the one.

And yes, Ellen Burstyn was powerful in that role.

[Franklin Harris]

Hey, Jennifer Connelly was brilliant in Requiem for a Dream, but she gets the Oscar for A Beautiful Mind. Go figure. Maybe they didn't like the 'Ass to Ass' scene.

This is typical. Russell Crowe didn't win for "The Insider," so the Academy gives him an Oscar the following year for "Gladiator," in which he did nothing but sulk for two hours. Judi Dench didn't win for "Mrs. Brown," so the Academy tossed her a bone the next year for about three minutes of screen time in "Shakespeare in Love."

The Oscars aren't about merit. They're about relieving guilty consciences.

[kwais]

Franklin,
What are you talking about "Gladiator" was an awesome movie, and I never heard about "The Incider".

I never heard of the "Life Aquatic" movie either. Nor have I seen any of the other movies on the oscar list. The only one I even heard of was "Ray".

I might have to watch "Requiem for a Dream" so that I know what you all are talking about in the 'ass to ass' scene. I am intrigued.

My nomination would be "Team America"

[CTD]

I'd like to recommend The Aviator to folks here. Not only does it have heavy Randist overtones (which are fun to watch for no matter how you feel about her), but I think it's the creepiest, campiest movie since Showgirls.

[Bob]

Doggonit - The bezt movie I saw last year was Bubba Ho-tep (followed closely by The Life Aquatic).

The Academy is a bunch of stiffs.

[Jesse Walker]

Team America was terrific, Kwais, but I thought Gladiator was a chore to sit through.

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch The Insider. I hate virtually everything Michael Mann makes, and I don't think some trendy tobacco-bashing is likely to turn me around.

[Semolina]

I know, bitching about various Oscar omissions is sooo 1929, and '30, and '31, ad nauseam...* But "Eternal Sunshine" REALLY did get robbed.

(*Yes, I also know that saying something is "sooo" 19whatever is sooo cliched.)

[kwais]

Jesse,
Try watching the version on the Armed Forces network. They cut out all the gory parts, presumably because somebody in the military would be offended. So you end up watching some people come out waving swords, and then it goes to another scene, (maybe that English dude talking about Rome's bosom, or whatever for a half hour) and you realize that there were people waving swords and then the movie cut to another scene. You say to yourself "hey did they just fight?"

And watching the moodyness, and the English bosom guy, and no fighting makes the worst movie ever.

[Gary Gunnels]

Why wasn't Garden State nominated?

Gladiator sucked. Sorry, it was so historically inaccurate (STIRRUPS!?!?!?!?) that it was almost as painful to watch as The Patriot was.

[kwais]

GG,
The Romans didn't have stirrups huh? Is it true that the invention of the stirrups are what rendered roman tactics obsolete?

Also, what technical feature in "The Patriot" was innacurate? Besides maybe that the English weren't really that evil.

I enjoyed "The Patriot", but we could have done without the son dying. And without a lot of the other drama.

[Shawn Smith]

kwais,

Maybe AFN is thinking that after hosing off the blood from humvees (11:17am), soldiers don't want to think about any more violence.

[Stevo Darkly]

I have boycotted watching the Oscars ever since Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama inexplicably failed to win, or even be nominated.

That and the way they keep dissing Andy Sidaris and his oeuvre.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

How can a movie called The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou not be great?

Jesse, you're wrong about Mann. Last of the Mohicans has my favorite line in the entire history of movies: "Has the rule of English law been replaced by absolutism?!?!?"

[kwais]

Shawn,
tv violence is very different than real violence. So I really don't know that that is true. It might be for some.

If indeed it is true, they might better be advised to show a different movie. Watching "Gladiator" without the fight scenes is like watching a porn without the sex scenes (which I have also done).

[Julian Sanchez]

You know, Garden State's one of those movies that I found pretty striking, for various reasons, at the time, but seemed less well done the more I thought about it. I don't know how well it'd survive a second viewing. However... that it didn't get a cinematography nod is obscene.

[Stevo Darkly]

Watching "Gladiator" without the fight scenes is like watching a porn without the sex scenes (which I have also done).

Ah, so you too have watched USA's "Up All Night"?

[sage]

No nods for F-911? Must be some vote rigging there.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Also, what technical feature in "The Patriot" was innacurate? Besides maybe that the English weren't really that evil.

If you can pick up an old copy of Smithsonian they did a cover story on it when the movie came out. It was hilarious because some Smithsonian people had acted as consultants, so they really wanted to heap praise on the movie, but it was also clear that the producers had pretty much ignored the Smithsonian recommendations, so it's a really bipolar article. A few inaccuracies I can recall: No colony of escaped slaves ever camped on a beach, where they would have been easily spotted; such camps were always in remote swamps or backwoods. The character Mel Gibson is based on never freed his slaves, nor did Washington offer freedom to any black person who served in the army (though the British did, which the movie also omitted). The British cavalry unit in question wore green coats, not red. All the flags used by all sides are wrong; the Betsy Ross flag didn't even exist at the time, the French are shown flying the revolutionary tricolor, etc. The English never locked a bunch of people in a church and burned it down (in America anyway). And innumerable licenses taken with details about close order formations, weaponry, and tactics that would make re-enactors shit in their uncomfortable period-accurate underpants.

None of which bothers me, but since you asked...

[Rhywun]

I can't dredge up one shred of interest in seeing "The Aviator", "Finding Neverland", "Million Dollar Baby", or "Ray". Biopics blow. Watching fictionalized, second-hand accounts of people I never cared about in the first place is not my cup of tea. My roommate, however, says "Sideways" was brilliant and that Paul Giamatti wuz robbed.

[Franklin Harris]

Stevo,

Not only did I used to watch USA's "Up All Night," I once watched an "Up All Night" showing of "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama."

I have no idea why I did that.

But I don't think it was cut as badly as was the UAN showing of "Sweet Sugar," one of my three favorite women-in-prison flicks. Now THAT was a waste of time.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Paul Giamatti wuz robbed.

Giamatti should have gotten his little gold man for playing Pig Vomit. The rest of his career is a coda to that performance.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

I'll see Garden State...never! Not only does it take my state's name in vain, but every preview, commercial, and clip they show of it features these lingering half-minute closeups of the writer/director/star in a closeup, looking into the camera with this look of dazed, see-the-inner-me-and-love-me winsomeness that makes me want to punch him. What a valentine to himself.

[Gary Gunnels]

Tim Cavanaugh,

The movie is as extremely romanticized and P.C. version of the book.

Tim Cavanaugh professional historians were especially miffed by Gibson's protrayal of the English as 18th century Nazis. I still remember how much traffic it created on listservs for professional historians. Gibson also conveniently scrubbed the true nature of South Carolina as a slave-holding colony/state from the picture as well. Then there is Gibson's rather erroneous picture of the French effort in the war.

The plot, the acting, etc. wasn't very good either.

kwais,

The stirrup was invented in 3rd century in central asia; it didn't make it to Europe until after the fall of the western Roman Empire. Romans did not use calvary as is protrayed in the film; calvary were for mopping operations; the legions were the primary method for conducting warfare.

[Jesse Walker]

The Patriot was a modern militia fantasy posing as a historical story, complete with a thinly disguised Waco. It pissed off all the usual suspects, and I really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, politics aside, it was pretty lousy as a movie.

Garden State I liked. Don't knock it til you've tried it, brother.

I watched Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-o-Rama because I'd been assured that it was a movie so incredibly bad that it's good. To my dismay, it was merely incredibly bad.

[alkurta]

Can someone tell me what the 'ass-to-ass' scene was?

[Gary Gunnels]

Jesse Walker,

Why would want to like it?

[Gary Gunnels]

Braveheart and The Patriot were some of the worst big budget movies in the past fifteen years or so. What especially sad about the former is how much of the little that we do know about Wallace that Gibson gets wrong. I mean, its not merely issues of improper costumes and the like that are bothersome, Wallace's entire biography is fucked up. If Gibson could have at least had the decency to actually portray Wallace's true biography I would have much less issue of the film.

[Gary Gunnels]

BTW, anyone who doesn't like The Patriot is a commie according to Horowitz. 🙂

[Jesse Walker]

Why would want to like it?

Because it's a modern militia fantasy posing as a historical story, complete with a thinly disguised Waco, and because it pissed off all the usual suspects.

[Franklin Harris]

The problem with all Mel Gibson films is that they would all be half as long if not for the gratuitous s-l-o-w m-o-t-i-o-n.

[Stevo Darkly]

Not only did I used to watch USA's "Up All Night," I once watched an "Up All Night" showing of "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama."

Me too.

I have no idea why I did that.

For me, I think it was the nightie-clad-sorority-sisters paddling scene in the first 10 minutes that drew me in. Alas, the remaining 80 minutes of the film never again approached that lofty cinematic highpoint.

But I don't think it was cut as badly as was the UAN showing of "Sweet Sugar," one of my three favorite women-in-prison flicks. Now THAT was a waste of time.

I only vaguely remember that one. It probably wasn't as good as "Reform School Girls" with Wendy O. Williams.

The worst cut-up "Up All Night" flick I ever saw was the original "Heavy Metal" movie -- the very adult cartoon. That thing jumped and lurched like a plywood flipbook.

Speaking of wastes of time, Saturday night host Gilbert Gottfried once summarized the "Up All Night" series as, "Showing movies with all the nude scenes cut out, when the nude scenes were the only reason those movies were made in the first place."

Friday night host Rhonda Shear was hot, though.

[Pro Libertate]

Braveheart was an enjoyable enough movie, but it was terrible history. I think the real villian was not the Road Warrior but Randall Wallace, who also screwed up The Man in the Iron Mask (not history, but a damned good book that didn't need tarting up). I'm a Wallace through my grandmother, so I'm extra annoyed that the movie screwed up my cousin and/or ancestor's quite interesting life. As an aside, I note that pro libertate is Clan Wallace's motto. And a darned good one, I'd say 🙂

Gladiator was okay, I guess, but I'm too much a student of Roman history to watch it without getting annoyed. Stirrups were the least of the problems as far as historical issues went. I'd rather watch Spartacus, anyway, even if it was pretty much ahistorical and a little too Hollywood.

[Gary Gunnels]

Jesse Walker,

Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Pro Libertate,

Well, yeah, there's also the fact that Marcus Aurelius wanted his fucked up son as his heir. 🙂

[Gary Gunnels]

Pro Libertate,

BTW, I can't think of any films based on any of Dumas' works that have been good.

[sage]

alkurta,

Watch the movie, but prepare to be disturbed. Not just by that scene, either.

[Franklin Harris]

Or just Google "ass to ass" and "Requiem for a Dream" together, both in quotes. You'll find out.

[Oscar's Grouch]

Franklin Harris, up near the top, said:
"The Oscars aren't about merit. They're about relieving guilty consciences."

As if we needed further proof of Hollywood's limousine-liberal credentials...

[Gary Gunnels]

Jesse Walker,

You got it out for professional historians or something? Because as far as I know, that was the only group of people miffed about the movie's wanton disregard for reality.

Pro Libertate,

Commodus dying quickly after becoming emporer (indeed, he reigned from 180-192 as I recall); him not being co-emporer before his father's death campaigning; Commodus dying in the arena (though he was obviously fond of "fighting" in it - if you call fighting against men with wooden swords fighting); etc.

[Franklin Harris]

The historical Commodus also dressed in bear skins in the arena like Hercules. The Commodus of "Gladiator," on the other hand, seems to be modeled mostly after Caligula, and the Bob Guccione version at that.

[Pepe]

I learned a long time ago to not get worked up about the Oscars. It started as and has always been nothing but self-promotion tool for the Mainstream Hollywood Film Industry. Are we really to believe that for the last 70+ years the "Best Picture" has always been produced by a major Hollywood studio? Even in the so-called "year of the independent" a few years back it was Disney owned Miramax that cleaned up. There is no accounting for taste and I will continue to like what I like without much concern for what the members of the academy feel.

[kwais]

"Giamatti should have gotten his little gold man for playing Pig Vomit. The rest of his career is a coda to that performance. "

Amen

[Pavel]

I'm one of the two dozen or so Americans who really liked The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou

I dunno how old you are Jesse, but in my mid-to-late 20s demographic it's hard to find someone that doesn't worship the movie.

People would drink spoiled milk out of Wes Anderson's ass (while Cat Stevens played in the background) if he chose that to be his next art project. The man can do no wrong apparently.

[too many steves]

The Oscars are to Movies as the Pro Bowl is to Football.

Oops, I forgot, the SAT doesn't do those anymore.

Life Aquatic was was great. No one else but Bill Murray could have played Steve Zissou.

The famous aquatic explorer has gotten old, he's lost his innocence and his honesty, he's become cynical and jaded, but then he realizes this and tries to recapture the energy, commitment, and love of his work that he remembers from his past.

Or, maybe it was just funny as hell and a satirical look at goofy, trumped up public figures.

God forbid the Academy reward a story like that and the performances of Bill Murray and Anjelica Huston.

Then again, I thought 'Blade Runner' and 'Glengarry Glen Ross' got screwed by the Academny.

[Brett]

Good Fellas was also robbed. Scorsese will eventually end up winning for some movie I didn't like near as much as some of his older ones. I haven't seen Aviator though.

The Commodus of "Gladiator," on the other hand, seems to be modeled mostly after Caligula, and the Bob Guccione version at that.

Ha, what a movie that Caligula was. I love Guccione's excuse for why it bombed - the men used in the movie as extras (guards, etc.) had dicks so big that word of mouth made men too insecure to see the movie. Not the highlight of Helen Mirren's career.

[jimmy]

"sideways" was the most boring movie i saw all year. in the tradition of "the station agent" (also way overrated), it's so non-formulaic it's formulaic, so ultra-realistic it's ultra-contrived. come on, that scene where they talked about their favorite wine grapes as if the type of grape symbolized their lives was one of the most ridiculously contrived movie scenes i have ever seen. the fact that paul giamatti was so good in a movie this bad shows what a great actor he is. how did he not get nominated, but this piece of crap he acted in did?

[The King]

I'll second Bubba Ho-Tep, baby.

[Gary Gunnels]

too many steves,

As I recall E.T. won best F/X over Blade Runner - which is just nuts.

[Jesse Walker]

You got it out for professional historians or something? Because as far as I know, that was the only group of people miffed about the movie's wanton disregard for reality.

As it happens, I was attacked by a gang of professional historians when I was a boy.

But they weren't the only ones upset about the movie. A lot of people didn't like the implicit politics either. Google a while and you'll see what I mean.

[Gary Gunnels]

Jesse Walker,

I see, more of the "culture war" that I've ignored.

It was a terrible, terrible film from a historian's perspective.

[Jesse Walker]

Most historical movies are.

[Semolina]

"The Patriot" gets props for at least giving dues to the Carolinas' crucial role in the Revolutionary War, which is often ofterlooked.

Google "Kings Mountain" if you want to learn how the war was truly won.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

"The Patriot" gets props for at least giving dues to the Carolinas' crucial role in the Revolutionary War, which is often ofterlooked.

Cry me a river, a Raritan river. New Jersey was the most important state by far in the revolution, and all you ever hear about are New York, Boston, Philly and Virginia.

[ed]

"Middlebrow Industry Circle-Jerk"

Ha ha ha ha.
Yep, 'tis.
Good one.

[dhex]

wes anderson made bottle rocket, one of the worst films ever crafted, so i've banned him from my short list forever.

"Not only does it take my state's name in vain..."

what part of jersey tim?

garden state's another movie about how hard it is to be a boy who likes a girl, right? with standard [suburb] implants and telling dad to go to hell and all that.

[Randolph Carter]

As Pavel said, if you go to college in the north east, it's impossible to escape Wes Anderson's movies. Bottlerocket was sweet, Rushmore was sweet, the Royal Tenenbaums kind of sucked, and Life Aquatic was, once again, sweet. The worst part of seeing movies like Life Aquatic and Napoleon Dynamite is the audience, trying to react "properly" to the movie, showing their friends just how hip and ironic they are. To quote from Futurama, "it screams at me like the forced laughter of a thousand art-house movie patrons"

[Jesse Walker]

To quote from Futurama, "it screams at me like the forced laughter of a thousand art-house movie patrons"

Heh. What's even worse are the middle-aged men who feel the need to vocalize a "hmm" every time something "significant" happens.

[kwais]

Rushmore kicked ass.

The Patriot was a good movie to take a date to. So what if the English weren't really that bad, they are movie bad guys, they have to be evil. And really so what if they were supposed to wear green jackets instead of red ones, and if they invented a church burning.

GG more than what color they really wore, or that we were as mean as them, I am more interested in; say for example if you were to tell me that the tactics wouldn't have worked, or if you said they are using the wrong guns.

The historical movie that I get worked up about was Samurai with Tom Cruise.

Now tell me what was so wrong with the costumes in Braveheart? I loved that movie, even though I am told that the battles don't resemble the real ones not the personalitys resemble the real ones, so why do you pick the costumes? Waht was so wrong about the costumes?

[Semolina]

"New Jersey was the most important state by far in the revolution"

guffaw*

The northern theater had turned into a stalemate. Washington, God bless him, was basically stuck in some limbo between a defensive position and occasional limp offensive forays.

Down south, meanwhile, those rugged Scots-Irish were busy screwing up Cornwallis' whole gameplan, ultimately forcing him to run for Virginia and get trapped at Yorktown ... upon which Washington swooped down and took all the glory. Gen. Nathanael Greene was the real hero of those final campaigns.

(* Does anyone know what a "guffaw" actually sounds like? I have long wondered.)

[smacky]

"As Pavel said, if you go to college in the north east, it's impossible to escape Wes Anderson's movies. Bottlerocket was sweet, Rushmore was sweet, the Royal Tenenbaums kind of sucked, and Life Aquatic was, once again, sweet. The worst part of seeing movies like Life Aquatic and Napoleon Dynamite is the audience, trying to react "properly" to the movie, showing their friends just how hip and ironic they are. To quote from Futurama, "it screams at me like the forced laughter of a thousand art-house movie patrons"

It's also true for the Midwest. You can't escape these aging-hipster 20-somethings. What I don't understand, as a 20-something myself, is how these contemporaries of mine don't seem to understand or care that this sort of forced irony is, in fact, corny and uncool all unto itself. Sometimes I think I am the only person alive in my age group who thinks that Napoleon Dynamite wasn't all that funny. And yes, I do remember the 80's quite clearly, so don't defend Napoleon Dynamite by saying it's funny because it spoofs 80's culture. Gosh.

BTW, Pavel, if Wes Anderson does ever decide to make drinking spoiled milk out of his ass his next art project, please let me know. I know a large demographic of people who would be more than happy to participate.

Also, I third Paul Giamatti's nomination for his portrayal of Pig Vomit.

Also, the "ass-to-ass" scene refers to two ladies sharing, ahem, a male prosthetic appendage whilst on all fours. See the movie, it's good. (the movie, not the ass-to-ass scene...)

[smacky]

One more thing: I saw Ray and it was really, really good. (Except for one cheezy scene near the end, but it only takes up about a minute of the whole film). I would actually consider buying this movie, and I don't do that with a lot of movies.
Biopics might not always be the best, but you have to give any movie about a heroin addiction a fair chance. Come on, now. That's good cinema. It might not have an ass-to-ass scene in it, but it still has its moments.

[hunting girl]

I have boycotted watching the Oscars ever since Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama inexplicably failed to win, or even be nominated.

One worthwhile segment is always the technical achievement awards. These guys develop the technology that makes producing movies possible. And if i may brag for a second, my thesis advisor is receiving an Academy Award this year for his pioneering work in motion capture technology.

[Gary Gunnels]

Semolina,

My suggestion is that you actually read some books on the matter.

Probably the best is John Buchanan's The Road to Guilford Courthouse: The American Revolution in the Carolinas.

BTW, let's note that the Revolutionary War modern American society is rarely given any sort of acknowledgement in the popular media, so complaining about the Carolinas getting short shrift is a bit silly, since the entire war gets that treatment generally!

kwais,

Costume problems? Well, for one thing, MODERN KILTS!!! They show folks with uniform tartans, etc. The kilt as we know it today was largely developed after the "rising" of 1715 by English and Scottish noblemen.

There's also the fact that Wallace fought in plate armor!!! He was a fucking nobleman after all.

In The Patriot (as I recall) they tended to show troops advancing under the fire of their own cannons (this might have been how Cowpens was protrayed - its been a while since I saw it). That's not how 18th century tactics worked. Artillery was meant to knock out the other sides artillery and was used in the main at the start of a battle. Once that happened forces advanced, but without the artillery firing over them (it was just too dangerous for one's own troops to use artillery while they advanced).

Samurai was loosely based on the experiences of a French officer in Japan.

You also see seige artillery (of all things) being used to fire on the American forces at Cowpens - that wouldn't have happened; you would use much smaller canon against advancing lines of troops.

[Gary Gunnels]

Semolina,

Note that George Washington had to be cajoled and prodded into going to Virginia that summer by Rochambeau. Washington wanted to erase the humiliation of his retreat from NYC by attacking and taking it that summer. Their presence there was critical though in ending the war.

[Semolina]

Gary wrote: "Semolina, My suggestion is that you actually read some books on the matter."

My girlfriend would laugh uproariously at this comment (perhaps she'd even guffaw, as well). She finds it quite amusing that there's never anything next to my nighstand but a continuously rotating series of American Revolution books. Among them has been Buchanan's book, which as you note is excellent.

You are right, of course, about the Revolutionary War getting short shrift in general. Seems that after the Bicentennial, Americans just kind of got tired of the whole thing or something.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

BTW, let's note that the Revolutionary War modern American society is rarely given any sort of acknowledgement in the popular media, so complaining about the Carolinas getting short shrift is a bit silly, since the entire war gets that treatment generally!

You're forgetting all those John Jakes miniseries from the seventies, where Andrew Stevens is finds sex, intrigue and action while rubbing elbows with Ben Franklin, George Washington, and the gang: The Bastard, The Rebels, The Jerkoff, The Wanker, and so on. They made a bunch of those, as I recall.

[Gary Gunnels]

Semolina,

I don't believe modern Americans understand how different 18th century America was. That's one of the reasons why political speeches about "constant threads" in American history make me guffaw.

A guffaw is a deep belly laugh.

[Fabius]

It was a French fleet under the comte de Grasse that won the war for us by blockading the Chesapeake. Fancy having to thank the navy of a monarchy for your independence.

Fortunes of war - even the French navy wins a few battles. One of the losers, Hood, had a battlecruiser named after him, that was also unlucky. Hood and then Rodney later beat de Grasse leading to his retirement, court-martial (he was acquitted) and now hardly anyone remembers him, unlike Lafayette who is distinguished by his presence more than by his actions.

QFMC cos. V

[Gary Gunnels]

Tim Cavanaugh,

Sadly, I don't believe I remember any of those.

A&E did a horrible biopic of Benedict Arnold a few years ago that I watched some of.

[Jesse Walker]

When I was a kid, one of the networks did a miniseries on the life of George Washington.

It provoked a strong reaction from a girl I knew, who refused to believe that America was once run by England.

[Semolina]

"Innate differences."

[kwais]

GG,
"Artillery was meant to knock out the other sides artillery and was used in the main at the start of a battle."

What good is artillery if it is only used to take out the enemy artillery? Why do you need to take out the enemy's atillery if it serves them no purpose but to take out yours?

BTW, watching 'The Patriot' with a bunch of Brittish soldiers is fun. Apparently the Brits on average know a lot more about our history than we do. Except one of our dudes who brags about being from the state that continued to fight the Brits even though the war of 1812 was over.

So was Napoleon the guy that figured out how to fire arty over your troops onto the enemy?

[kwais]

GG,
Also, what was the innovation that rendered the Roman legion tactics obsolete?

[Gary Gunnels]

kwais,

Well if you knock out their artillery they can't use it to mow down your troops. 🙂 Anyway, you have to look at from a combined arms vantage point.

As to Napoleon, he viewed the primary role of artillery as the means to blow the holy shit out of enemy armies. He would concentrate his artillery on particular points and lay waste to that are of an army. It was the role of the infantry and calvary to rush into the gap he created. Notably his artillery tactics would scare the beejeezus out of opposing militaries and they would be running away as his calvary and infantry rushed in. To Napoleon you only fired upon opposing batteries as a means to draw their fire, and you would only commit a fraction of your artillery for such.

Napoleon especially like to race his guns within 500-750 yards of enemy formations, drop them off, and as a mass fire cannister shot into the enemy's columns. Done in a disciplined way, this tactic could break armies in a hurry and was not something one would want to be on the receiving end of.

[Gary Gunnels]

kwais,

As I understand it, the downfall of the legion was due less to it becoming obsolete and more to the political/economic turmoil that afflicted the western Empire. Roman armies - though highly effective - required a heck of a lot of administrative, etc., support that a declining empire could not give them.

[Pro Libertate]

Gary Gunnels,

I recall having a whole list (in my head--I don't take my movies that seriously) of historical errors when watching Gladiator. Hollywood has some really serious issues with ever portraying classical society even remotely correctly. Similar to my inability to spell "villain" correctly in a first draft.

As for Dumas, you are correct. I did rather like the French miniseries version of The Count of Monte Cristo, but I watched that back when I was taking the bar exam, and everything nonlegal seemed happy and joyous. There are some aspects of the Michael York Musketeer movies that I liked (Oliver Reed fits my vision of Athos for some reason), but I can't say that they are particularly good movies. Of course, Dumas never wrote a book under a thousand pages, so it's hard to stay completely true to any of his books.

I've never had a huge problem with the need to "translate" novels into movies, so long as the alterations are necessary to fit the film format. What I hate is when changes are made to somehow "improve" on the original, especially when the original is decades or centuries old. As for movies based on historical events, I'm never very satisfied when significant alterations to accepted facts are thrown in, usually for no good reason. From what I've seen, the narrative is often weakened by such changes, anyway.