Buckley on Iraq
Today's New York Times story about Bill Buckley's surrender of ownership and control at National Review notes his "retrospective doubts about the wisdom of invading Iraq." What he says is actually stronger than that:
Mr. Buckley said there was a growing debate on the right about how the war in Iraq squared with the traditional conservative conviction that American foreign policy should seek only to protect its vital interests.
"With the benefit of minute hindsight, Saddam Hussein wasn't the kind of extra-territorial menace that was assumed by the administration one year ago," Mr. Buckley said. "If I knew then what I know now about what kind of situation we would be in, I would have opposed the war."
That seems pretty significant to me, especially given NR's generally gung-ho attitude toward the war, although perhaps he's said the same thing before and I missed it.
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"...critical thinking impaired, ... dunder-headed asswhipe."
Pot, Kettle, What?
digamma - Truly, nothing can compare to the late 2002 cover "The Conquerer," with its teaser: "Kabul, Washington, and next: Baghdad."
Pretty much the magazine equivalent of that "We're Going to War" song in "Duck Soup."
I love how everyone can now act as though they knew for certain that there were no assembled WMDs. Nothing is quite so entertaining as rewriting history with yourself as the protagonist.
Jason, I wrote in an email to friend, the day after Powell's speech, that he had "hit a triple," and just needed to come home. And I waited for the admin to do so. And waited. And waited. Then, people started asking why they didn't finish proving their case, and they responded by calling the questioners nasty names, and repeating the arguments they had already made. Then, it became apparent that Powell hadn't even tagged second (unmanned Iraqi aircraft that could reach our shores, uranium from Niger, etc). It was then I realized that there was no Iraqi WMD threat to the United States.
So, no, I never claimed to be certain that there were no usable WMDs in Iraq. I was just certain the people trying to prove the opposite could not do so, and were being dishonest trying.
"I was just certain the people trying to prove the opposite could not do so, and were being dishonest trying."
Like Clinton and Kerry right?
Double-speaking hypocrite.
The best thing about libertarians is, they're never wrong about ANYTHING
I wouldn't call what Joe's saying doublespeak or hypocrisy per se, but it's certainly selective memory and/or criticism unless he thinks Clinton was lying as well? Woddya say, Joe?
"So, no, I never claimed to be certain that there were no usable WMDs in Iraq. I was just certain the people trying to prove the opposite could not do so, and were being dishonest trying."
I can accept that. A major failing of the administration was in making the leap from 'extremely high probability of WMD', which was argued well enough to 'we saw some WMDs', which was not the case. That said, I think it is fairly disingenuous to say that the failure to produce a WMD with Saddam's thumbprint and hair samples on it meant that the high probability argument evaporated too.
The man went out of his way to convince people that he had active programs. He continued to obstruct inspections. I don't know what to make of Putin's recent comments, but I do know that nary a single country went to the UN with the argument that there were none, and I also know that after a decade and a final warning, we would not know for sure without knocking on his door.
I think this is all uncontroversial, yet we have people all over this place screaming about how obvious it was that Iraq was not a threat. The unmanned aircraft bit was silly to bring up for the administration, since the alleged threat was always that Saddam might sell AQ something nasty for delivery through non ballistic methods.
The administration made the mistake of throwing out a shotgun pattern of everything remotely bad about Iraq to see if a story would emerge. As some pieces turned out not as they first appeared, the central theme of 'Iraq is a threat because we know they used to have a program, they have declared war on us and have attempted to assassinate a US president, and they continue to obscure what happened to said program,' got lost.
Many are hell bent on seeing this approach to the media as a conspiracy, and others are just naive as to what quality of evidence is reasonable to expect when the perpetrator has an entire country's recources dedicated to hiding things. What bothers me the most is the politically expedient blind eye now being turned toward the reasonable basis for an assumption that Iraq was a threat.
80's fan:
"The best thing about libertarians is, they're never wrong about ANYTHING"
Yeah that's why it's so cool to hang out here, huh? Of course your statement doesn't quite work since we disagree with each other sometimes.
Hey 80's fan, it's the Go Go's!
http://hometown.aol.com/bgrabelsky/images/new%20go-go's%20picture-charlotte%20only.jpg
"Like Clinton and Kerry right?"
Since neither of these leaders were advocating a massive expenditure of blood and treasure based on the existence of WMD's when they made their statements in the late 1990s, I didn't really pay much attention at the time.
Buy you're trying to steal bases when you claim that Clinton's and Kerry's take on the situation was the same as this current administration's. Bush was not arguing merely that Iraq had nasty weapons, but that they had nasty weapons that were a threat to us, that they were likely to transfer them to terrorists for use against American cities absent quick action on our part, that we had to pre-empt militarily, via full-scale invasion, even if it took resources away from the fight against Al Qaeda and disrupted our relations with the rest of the world, and that we could not wait for the inspections teams to finish their job and a hardier coalition to be formed.
The case presented by Bush turned out not to be true, and the adminstration's dishonest and corrupt (hell yeah I'm calling the blowing of a covert agent's cover corrupt) behavior made it clear to me that I could not take their word - and the only thing they offered to close the gap between the case Clinton made in 1998 and the case Bush made in 2002 was their word. People who can make their case cleanly don't cheat the way the Bushies did, and their need to cheat convinced me they couldn't make their case. So Jason, the cheating you allude to was not just useless to Bush's case, but actively undermined it in my eyes.
And it turns out I'm right. If the car salesman won't make eye contact when you ask him about the tranny, don't buy the car.
80s fan, I'm a liberal.
Libertoids are wrong about all kinds of things 😉
why was it unacceptable to let the inspections continue under the threat of force?
joe,
Onetime, after one of reading one your posts, I felt motivated to write: "If there must be liberals,why can't they all be like joe".... that urge has now left me 😉
Rick Barton,
We disagree with each other sometimes?? LOL!!
"The man went out of his way to convince people that he had active programs. He continued to obstruct inspections"
Bullshit. The inspectors had the run of the place before we invaded. In fact, every single accusation made about WMD was publicly debunked and proved fraudulent BEFORE we invaded.
For those who can't remember, here's an url: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm
Anyone who thinks this is a picture of a country that's a threat to the US is as stupid as Michael Moore says we are.
fyodor,
Right; it occurs to me that libertarians have their political views worked out in more detail than most folks so it gives us more items to debate about. It's one of the reason's why this place is so much fun I guess.
"why was it unacceptable to let the inspections continue under the threat of force?"
Tim - because Sad-man agreed to the terms after the gulf war
My football coach used to say "I thought I had to fart but I shit"
Tim, please don't think!
So it's not just Buchanon and Taki? 🙂 (Not sure if Justin counts...)
....one of the reasons...
Where were Buckley's doubts when HIS OWN FUCKING MAGAZINE ran the cover story Unpatriotic Conservatives: A War Against America?
Yes it is clear that Buckley also hates the jews.
Yeah, that article was ridiculous. Was Buckley still in full control of NR then? With these pronouncements, he would have been a target of that silly piece.
I remember noticing the divide between Buckley and his staff a couple years ago. He was always much more thoughtful and measured than the young punks whose columns appeared on NRO.
"If I knew then what I know now..."
Oh you didn't?! Why don't you just go get "gullible" tattooed on your fucking forehead you, critical thinking impaired, far-right minion, dunder-headed asswhipe.
Coach, that's an excuse to go to war. It's a pretext to go to war. It's a legal justification to go to war.
But as a reason to sacrifice 800 and counting Americans and who knows how many billions of tax dollars, it doesn't even come close to being adequate.
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