Take My Wife, Please!
Sorry if we haven't mustered sufficient interest in the Jack and Jeri Ryan story so far: Jack comes across as a pill, and as for Jeri, well—if it hasn't got Kirk, it just ain't Star Trek.
It's an interesting story, the kind I'm always happy to see. While there is certainly something creepy in the kind of hard-sell approach Ryan allegedly put on his ex, I don't see three attempts at group sex as a disqualifier for the world's most exclusive club. I also disagree with Ol' Bill Saletan's definition of Ryan's damage control as Clintonian spin. He did make a seemingly straightforward denial of 7 of 9's charges in their divorce proceedings:
I did arrange romantic getaways for us, but that did not include the type of activities she describes. We did go to one avant garde nightclub in Paris which was more than either one of us felt comfortable with. We left and vowed never to return."
(I know it doesn't sound straightforward excerpted like that, but if you look at the original complaint, he does seem to be responding to her charge.)
You may argue that he's not telling the truth here. I've run the numbers and discovered that there is a 100 percent chance Ryan was lying in the above statement. But he did make an actual denial, so it's not really true to claim he's just weasel-wording his way out of it—pleasurable as it is seeing Republicans forced to use "Chacun ? son go?t" as a defense.
But come to think of it, baldfaced lies, and weasel words too, were part of the Clintonian spin effort. I give up. But I'm for sex. Go Ryan! Go sex! Go America!
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I think we need to give Jack Ryan a break. He saved the world several times over from nuclear war. I'm especially impressed how he helped steal a Russian supersub.
My only question is were there only girls in that sex cage? If so, what's the big deal?
Any woman who would in any way cheat on a babe like Jack Ryan ain't no kind of woman. Jack, come to me for comfort and solace. Resistance is Futile!!!!
A) the divorce papers should not have been made public
B) I know I'm being a curmudgeon and everyone just wants to have a good time talking about group sex, but why is this topic, which is essentially celebrity gossip, in H&R?
He's a weasel, due to the schoolteacher bit. A blatant resume booster, the kind of community service that a high schooler fakes his way through to get into a upper-crust college.
Come on, leaves a huge money job to teach high school to inner city black catholic school??? Please, give me a break.(I am somewhat bitter that Hales-Franciscan was the cheating/recruiting(admitted by the coach) basketball team that made my town have 2nd place two years ago)
The sex thing is just icing.
I guess hes having a conference in a few hours to announce something. Since this has been a story in IL for 3 days, I thought it was gonna blow over, but perhaps not.
He was a lost cause anyway due to the Ryan name as well as being in a Dem state.
This is too damn funny. Tough shit Jack.
You know, if all she's interested in is boring, old-fashioned, missionary type sex, . . . I could live with that.
Gee, she's kind of cute.
I don't get the hypocrisy charge either. He never cheated on her, never did anything contrary to is marriage vows. Kinky sex WITH YOUR WIFE is not "anti-family", you numb-nuts.
By declining to extend state benefits based on who you are banging this week, he has made your private life public business how, exactly?
I can remember when libertarians were all in favor of privacy, limited benefits, etc. How things have changed.
You all are missing a crucial aspect to this story, which is that Ryan said he would not release the records because they dealt directly with his mentally retarded son. He told leaders in the state GOP as well as Republican primary voters that there was not embarrassing or incriminating in the files. He blatantly lied, and used his own son as a human shield against public scrutiny. Absolutely disgraceful.
As for the notion that somehow politicians' "personal" lives (in this case, it was part of a divorce proceeding, which is usually public record) are off limits, when they start butting out of my life I'll butt out of theirs.
RC, pretty much every pol and public figure who would talk about "family values" as a good thing (rather than a magico-religious tard magnet) would most definitely include swingers clubs in the category of BADEVILNOTGOOD.
i mean, i don't give a fuck what he did, but it's telling that someone with an unorthodox private life would be so interested in fucking with the private lives of others for not fitting his whacky tobaccy box.
Hey there, group sex with several strangers in a cage is a beautiful, sacred communion that should only be entered into by loving, committed adults (ideally in possession of nipple clamps and testicle straps). Anything less would be a dereliction of God's divine plan. (For further information, see Mr. Ryan's proclamations regarding family values, etc.)
The justification of attacking Ryan on the grounds of his private sexual behavior sounds a bit like "but, mom, he hit me first." The dissolution of a marriage on whatever grounds should remain private. I fail to understand how the need for petty revenge on an allegedly failed moralist is more important than principle of personal privacy... but I'm not from "around here."
so it's not even slightly amusing?
Wasn't he worried that either of them might be recognized? Or did they wear leather hoods?
thoreau, Monica put on the weight after the scandal broke. She was a hottie during the affair.
And people, when your sexual escapades occur in a room full of people, they cease to be private. Duh.
Would I vote based on somebody's sex life? No.
Is a politician's sex life any of my business? No.
But if info on a politician's sex life comes out will I enjoy a good laugh at his hypocrisy? HELL YEAH!!!!
One assumes that the kinds of clubs where patrons might have sex in front of other people, or group adventures, or what have you, are also the kinds of clubs where the patrons are expected to exercise discretion outside the club and not blabber about who they saw there and who put what in whom. One assumes. So to that degree, they are still "private."
I never got the Monica=ugly thing, either, though. I guess in a country where the standard of beauty is Paris fuckin' Hilton, maybe, but she's a reasonably attractive young woman.
You may wish to use the word "alleged," Joe, unless you consider every word written in a divorce petition automatically true. To my knowledge, the purported sex scandal is nothing more or less than the allegation of Ryan's ex-wife in a divorce proceeding. In my experience divorce petitions are not usually exercises in calm, objective analysis of marital shortcomings.
Once again, I make my point. If one is willing to sacrifice the principle of personal privacy for the petty induldgence of gloating over a moralists failing... how can one can defend privacy when the motives are far less base?
It is easy enough to twist Niemoeller to fit the circumstance... "First they invaded the privacy of right wing politicians and I did not speak out because I thought it was funny and they got what they deserved."
Enjoy the joke until it is played upon you.
Could somebody explain how what Ryan proposed doing with either illegal or immoral?
I don't think there's anything illegal happening. And any immorality argument is going to be based on the "yuck" factor.
joe,
Granted, Monica put on the weight after the scandal, but to call her a "hottie".... Chewing on the son of a goat, indeed.
"group sex with several strangers in a cage is a beautiful, sacred communion that should only be entered into by loving, committed adults (ideally in possession of nipple clamps and testicle straps)."
Reading the Da Vinci code again, huh?
So THIS is what they mean by a TROPHY WIFE
Have you heard about the Trekkie stalker in California which led to the divorce papers being 'sealed' in the first place.
When is Gerry Springer going to have all THREE on his show
From Jack's webpage:
"I believe that marriage can only be defined as that union between one man and one woman. I am opposed to same-sex marriages, civil unions, and registries."
He deserves the hell he's in now.
Prediction: He's outa the race *today*.
The proper response is that Mr. Ryan's sexual behavior is a private matter... period. Perhaps espousing "family" values while allegedly swinging is hypocritical. What then is espousing libertarian values while making a public issue out of one's private sexual behavior?
Tim,
In case you haven't noticed, Jean Bart has left us (though he may be using an assumed name). So please speak English like the rest of the world!
What the hell is she complaining about? For the Borg, all sex is group sex!
Oh, yeah, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated, blah blah.
I'm just pissed they didn't cast her as the Borg Queen. >:-(
From Ryan't campaign web site:
"I believe that marriage can only be defined as that union between one man and one woman...(homosexuals) should not be entitled to special rights based on their sexual behavior."
So, apparently, HIS "union" with his wife is about things much deeper than just their sexual behavior, but homosexual people's unions are not.
When the fryer beeps, take out the onion rings, fucko.
I think if Jackie was doing the swing clubs and not throwing stones at gay couples (*any* recognition of gay couples) then sure...let 'em show off his hot wife. Whatever!
But when Jack "defense of marriage" Ryan doesn't even want domestic partner benefits and my private life is his campaign fodder, then his private life is certainly fair game. Nothing anti-libertarian about that.
One can be libertine if one is truly libertarian.
It seems the Republicans have more problems with Ryan's scandal than the Democrats. Ryan was already well on his way to losing.
I'm disappointed that this has become the issue. There were plenty of other reasons not to vote for Ryan.
One reason not to vote for Ryan is his love for moralist and professional gambler William Bennett, who Ryan's campaign called ''one of America's most important, influential and respected voices on cultural, political, and education issues"; ''one of the nation's most prominent political figures,'' and an ''extraordinary influence on America's political and social landscape.''
Another reason: It's just not a good idea to run for office in Illinois these days with a last name of Ryan.
I know it sounds childish, but "he was a hypocrite first" really does seem like it carries some weight here. I mean, if it were up to us, the whole sexual propriety thing would have never come up in the first place.
Personally, I think if I were having sex with Jeri Ryan I'd want as many people as possible to know too.
The bigger story here is Ryan's opponent - Barack Obama. Obama has taken the high road in this whole thing saying pretty much zip about it. Classy guy given that Ryan basically had an investigator stalking him around the clock with a camera and tape recorder, drawing tons of ire from the press, public and politicos in Springfield.
Anyway, it's obvious to most of us that Ryan is a grade-a asshole... so I don't feel bad seeing him go down in flames over something that is essentially a personal matter.
Mostly I'm just happy that Obama is going to be able to glide into the senate come November... he's going to be awesome.
I really don't know much about Jack Ryan althoughI am a fan of his formerly Borg wife. I am a Trekkie (should I admit that publicly?) Whatever his or her sexual predilictions are is their business, but I can understand where folks would want to jump all over a story like this given the Republicans are great ones for touting family values (and are probably as kinky as hell in secret). Someone fill me in a bit on Ryan's record. Has he been one for making alot of rabid statements?
"So please speak English like the rest of the world!"
If you need a translation, my rudimentary French tells me that "Chacun ? son go?t" means "chewing on the son of a goat."
"Ryan basically had an investigator stalking him around the clock with a camera and tape recorder"
This is a widespread campaign tactic in the US, Ryan's not doing anything creepily original here; Obama actually did make an issue of it which is why the press reported it. Obama has kept his mouth shut about the other Ryan "scandal", probably because it wouldn't do him any good if he didn't.
Obama isn't a "classy guy" for not commenting on the divorce proceedings that have torn down his two strongest opponents. I won't even say he's a smart guy for his non reply. I'll grant that he is not a stupid politician for to attempt to capitalize on the family issues of an opponent would be like trying to loosen a noose by jerking your body up and down.
Obama isn't going to win the race. All his opponents are losing the race. Could they make it any easier for Obama?
Brennan,
"Obama isn't going to win the race. All his opponents are losing the race. Could they make it any easier for Obama?"
God, tell me about it. It's too bad Fitzgerald isn't running again. However Obama turns out, I'm willing to bet Dick Durbin will still be the worst excuse for a senator we sent to DC in my lifetime.
George Will wrote a fawning, look-how-he-gives-back-to-the-little-people column a while back about Ryan's transition from millionaire banker (or whatever) to schoolteacher. I can't wait for the followup.
The reason the Republican leadership in Illinois and beyond is really pissed at Ryan is that he apparently assured them that there was nothing embarassing in the divorce papers. And now they feel lied to, which they pretty much were.
So let me get this straight. Alabama plays the name game and gets elected in Illinois because the cold-war secret agent wanted witnesses to his borg assimilation?
And if you'd like a slightly more accurate translation..
"Chacun ? son go?t" = "Everybody has their own taste". It's the french idiomatic equivalent of "To each, his own"
For everyone out there like me who doesn't know what "Chacun ? son go?t" means off-hand, I prayed at the alter of Google and now offer to save you the trouble:
"Each to his taste."
I don't see the conflict with his family values views. Were there children at the clubs with him? How is he a hypocrite?
"I mean, if it were up to us, the whole sexual propriety thing would have never come up in the first place."
Heh... good luck. This nation's government may have been founded by free-thinkers, deists, atheists, and plantation owners who slept with their slaves, but America was initially colonized by bible-beaters, puritans, and other religious nuts. Two hundred plus years of prudishness is evidently hard to erase.
"I don't see the conflict with his family values views. Were there children at the clubs with him? How is he a hypocrite?"
You're joking. Please say you're joking.
Bill Clinton has oral sex with an ugly intern in his office.
Jack Ryan has sex with a really hot actress in a club full of swingers.
Republicans definitely have more fun!!!!
Any man who would in any way cheat on a babe like Jeri Ryan ain't no kind of man. Jeri, come to me for comfort and solace. Resistance is Futile!!!!
BTW, while some may see loose sexual practices by ostensible family values mongers as a problem for the GOP, I see it as a recruiting tool:
Vote Republican! We know how to have fun!
Does it involve buggery?
No? Then what's the issue.
Jack Ryan didn't cheat on Jeri Ryan. Jeri cheated on him. That's why they got divorced.
I think the guy's definitely creepy. But my biggest issue is that I don't feel the divorce records should have been released.
Actually, it was Jeri Ryan who cheated on him (with her current husband, Brannon Braga, I think) - he's denied having any affairs of his own, and she says she has no evidence or reason to believe he did.
If I were in Illinois, I'd almost certainly have voted 3rd party, but it seems really below the belt to go after someone's divorce papers. It would be one thing if Jack Ryan were pushing for, say, more restrictive divorce laws, or laws against the kind of clubs he (allegedly) visited. Some politicians do - I recall a few noises in that direction from politicians in Louisiana and Alabama, but not going anywhere. I don't think he's gone there. And unlike Clinton, he's shown no indication that he supports the sexual harrassment laws that allow investigation of the accused sexual history.
It also says a lot that even though Jeri Ryan sticks by her accusations, she also says that he's a good man, wonderful father, and would make a great Senator. Viewed in that light, he sounds more kinky than scummy.
Oh - to clarify - he was still an ass for trying to pressure his wife into doing that kind of thing. But that doesn't make him a scummy hypocrite - just an ass.
If you want to challenge Ryan's stand on a public policy issue like marriage, Joe, bring forward something more substantive than an ad homimen attack based on an unsubstantiated allegation in a private divorce proceeding. Otherwise, you fall neatly in step with those who evaluate the Clinton presidency based on the oral favors of an intern.
Once again, I think libertarians should seize the opportunity to take up the banner of getting government entirely out of the "marriage" business. And I find something vaguely compelling about M. Simon's post. Perhaps the time has come for a candidate who runs on the platform of "booze and broads."
M. Simon says, "Thank you Jack Ryan. Democracy, whiskey, sexy. What America is all about."
Jose Ortega y Gasset says, "Perhaps the time has come for a candidate who runs on the platform of 'booze and broads.'"
Bill Clinton says, "Whoa! Elvis is back in the building! Hey Hillary, pack up! We're goin' home to DC!"
Ryan alas has dropped out.
Further mention of sex clubs in a political context at work are forbidden. (Monday will be a one day exception to allow for discussion of his resignation).
Talk of Monica and the place of the BJ in history is OK for about another week. Until the Clinton book tour "news" barrage dies down.
Monica is a hottie.
A constant reminder of why lipstick was invented.
Think of what she has done for the sex life of the American man. "Democracy, whiskey, sexy."
The reason we will win this war is because in America it is not necessary to go to heaven to get your 72 virgins. Well not exactly virgin. And certainly not all of a stellar quality. Still, the advantage that death is not a prerequisite has a lot to be said for it.
Thank you Jack Ryan. Democracy, whiskey, sexy. What America is all about.
Drudge is making noises about someone (Drudge himself?), perhaps a Tribune owned TV station in MA, going after the KERRY sealed divorce records.
This is a bad thing. It was wrong when it was done to the Ryans, and it will stink if the first Mrs. Kerry has to get dragged into her ex's campaign.
Kevin
It makes sense