Protesting Without Permission

New York City has refused applications for an anti-war protest on Central Park's lawn during the Republican National Convention from United for Peace and Justice. Now the Manhattan Libertarian Party has announced its plan for an unauthorized, unorganized, no-one's-in-charge protest at the place and time--noon on Aug. 29 on the Great Lawn in Central Park--for which United for Peace and Justice was denied its permit. So if you show up, remember, no one sent you.

Comments

[Number 6]

Be seeing you.

[dhex]

you know, that's the first halfway decent thing the nylp has come up with.

[pills]

What war will you be protesting?

[brooklyn dave]

Well, being a New Yorker myself, my immediate reaction is to be as far away from Midtown Manhattan as possible. I have read the newsletter of the Manhattan Libertarian Party and it's amusing but have not been to any of their monthly
meetings.....should check it out. A while back someone in the Manhattan LP had a brain fart to go to some public school and hand out toy guns to kids to make a point about some of the ridiculous regulations that school have instituted since Columbine. I get their point but you don't involve kids in these kinds of actions. The parents were pissed off and I don't blame them. So I hope NYLP has a fairly coherent idea of what they are going to do on Aug. 29th. Personally I believe the potential for violence will be great (and I am not talking Islamic terrorists), and it takes some know how in dealing with any kind of civil disobedience and exacerbating a situation where the cops will kick your ass.

[titus]

brooklyndave -

I remember that. It made Stewart's Daily Show. Very embarrassing.

I think I will be stuck in Brooklyn (like I usually am) for the convention. Carrying a "Capitalists Against Bush" sign might make the hippies' heads explode.

Plus cops here scare the crap out of me.

brooklyn josh

[Josh]

Carrying a "Capitalists Against Bush" sign might make the hippies' heads explode.

From what I've witnessed of hippies over the past 3 years, I really don't think they're all that picky about anyone as long as they're "against Bush."

[thoreau]

I've never spent any time in NYC beyond a couple hours in a Greyhound station waiting to change buses. Is the site of the protest anywhere in the vicinity of the convention center?

See, I can see how, for the sake of argument, one might, hypothetically use security concerns justify the near-total bans on free speech in the immediate vicinity of the convention. Mind you, this is just for the sake of argument.

But my understanding is that America has, in the past several years (possibly including the Clinton years, lest anybody think I'm being partisan here) gone way beyond crowd control in the immediate vicinity of a high-security event. If protests even a mile away from a Presidential speech can be shut down because they aren't in the designated "free speech zone", then something has gone drastically wrong.

Anyway, I'm curious whether it's even plausible to claim that this protest has to be curtailed for "security reasons." Not that "security reasons" would necessarily make it right, but the weaker the "security reasons", the more blatantly obvious the first amendment violations are.

(And now I suspect that I'll be attacked by both sides. Some will say I'm whining over a "trivial" infringement of free speech, and others will say that I was being way too sympathetic to "security concerns".)

[Kevin]

Thoreau:

Madison Square garden and the Great Lawn are at least 30 blocks apart. So, to answer your question: not so much.

[thoreau]

Kevin-

Thanks for the info. I'll be most curious to hear the government explain why people can't peaceably assemble 30 blocks away to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[brooklyn dave]

Thoreau,

There are some that probably actually savor security threats because they can use it to silence public protests. I tend to stay away from language saying that my free speech is being silenced. It's not being totally silenced, but silenced in the form of large public gatherings. I can still stand on a corner and hold a sign saying "George Bush is the Devil" or "George Bush is the Next Messiah". But that does not make the same impact as a large group of people assembling in a particular place. By the way, I can't see what the hell is the problem of protesting on the Great Lawn of Central Park. It is far away enough from Madison Square Garden to be a security threat. Now the powers that be are getting into the bullshit arena.

[db]

"'George Bush is the Devil' or 'George Bush is the Next Messiah'"

How about "George Bush is the Kwisatz Haderach?"

Now I'm just being silly.

[thoreau]

Brooklyn Dave-

I understand your reticence about using phrases like "my free speech is being silenced". But the distinction you draw between large events (which might be considered disruptive or whatever) and a single guy with a sign is not one that the government always honors. Individuals with signs that criticize the President are frequently kept away from Presidential events, while individuals with signs praising the President are allowed in.

If I ever get the chance to attend a Presidential speech I have my strategy all laid out. I'll wear a suit and a Bush-Cheney 2004 button. I'll order an official Bush-Cheney 2004 rally sign from the online store (http://www.georgewbushstore.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/scstore/600-7010.htm?L+scstore+lhbi1948+1088202954).

But in my jack pocket I'll have some double-stick tape discretely hidden and printed pages with my preferred sign (the pages mixed in with some pages of work-related documents, so a casual perusal of my pockets would suggest I have some work with me). Once I'm past security I'll tape my sign (either "Badnarik 2004!" or "End the Drug War!") to the front of the rally sign and see how long it takes for them to ship me off to Gitmo.

[thoreau]

The first sentence of the last paragraph should be: "But in my jacket pocket..."

And as they drag me away I'll shout "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

[Mark S.]

"George Bush is the Kwisatz Haderach?"

You know, this makes more sense the more I think about it. Dubbya is the son of a disgraced leader. He was breed for politics. He has an army of religious fanatics who follow him. While claiming to be on the side of righteousness, he uses backstabbing and subterfuge to usurp power and plunge all into a chaotic war. Let's not forget the while oil-equals-melange angle.

The question now is who to join? House Harkonnen, or House Corrino?

[Mark S.]

Nah... on second thought I'm going with David Icke and his notion that the Bush family are all evil, alien, reptile men.

[Rick Barton]

Unless there is an event previously scheduled there at the same time, the city has no right to deny a "permit"! Those officials of NYC who are responsible for this might as well be spitting on the flag.

[Swamp Justice]

House Halliburton? 😉

[Jonas Cord]

I'll be most curious to hear the government explain why people can't peaceably assemble 30 blocks away to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Because, regardless of the tranquility and civility of the protesters, the Great Lawn will turn from a grassy lawn to a dust bowl if that many people trample around there.

It's not security concerns, it's the fact that we won't have grass again until next year.

[Brian]

Wow. Dune and Monty Python references in the same thread. The geekometer's really pegging here today.

I love you guys.

[db]

That would be CHOAM, I think.

Combine Halliburton Ober Advancer Mercantiles

[Ricky]

Even a Prisoner reference at the top. Crazy.

[D Anghelone]

I've never spent any time in NYC beyond a couple hours in a Greyhound station waiting to change buses. Is the site of the protest anywhere in the vicinity of the convention center?

No. And these things have little effect in Manhattan anyway. Had the Red Army marched down 5th Avenue, the people on 6th would never have known.

[TWC]

HEY RICK BARTON!

You got quoted in David Knott's most recent fund raising letter. You may already know that, but anyway, it is kind of cool.

He told your Hayek/Reagan 1976 campaign story that you posted on the blog the week RR passed.

This also proves that sometimes people read that stuff--the fund raising letters I mean.

[TWC]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPS!

That would be David NOTT, not Knott, as in Berry Farm.

My apologies David.

Musta been the dope...........

[elioza]

"It's not security concerns, it's the fact that we won't have grass again until next year. "

so we shall sacrifice our freedom for the sake of The Grass.

[Legend]

This has the potential to be one of the most important protests in New York, if not American history. We are protesting the war in Iraq, the Patriot act, and the general abscence of our constitutional rights. I definitely plan on being there, and hope to see as many freedom-loving New Yorkers, and as many non-New Yorkers, as can possibly attend. If these are NOT times that "try men's souls"(thank you, Tom Paine), I don't know what to think. Yes, there will be an element of danger. But how much more if we capitulate, giving up our constitutional rights "just this once?" One time is too many. see ya there, freeedom-lovers.

[Legend]

sorry, wrong link:

[Rick Barton]

"...the Great Lawn will turn from a grassy lawn to a dust bowl if that many people trample around there. It's not security concerns, it's the fact that we won't have grass again until next year."

Give me a break! Park lawns have huge gatherings, including rock concerts, and the grass doesn't turn "to a dust bowl."

[zorel]

thoreau,

interesting posts about 'peaceably assembling' - the problem is with the 'peace' part. most of the lefties (and the anti-abortion crowds) are not peaceful (especially in a crowd). I am not saying they lose their rights to free speech, but when you are prone to violent demonstrations, you are not exactly protected by the First.

A few weeks ago there were many kvetching on this forum (not you) about the free speech of idiots who wanted to protest the G-8 summit in Georgia. Turned out there were less than 150 protesters in all. They were outnumbered by the police and press. The only way these morons could make news is by resorting to violence (as in Seattle, Canada, etc.). Since the security was tight, they couldn't do much.

In your hypothetical scenario of the guy (or a whole bunch of them) marching silently with banners (Vote Kerry) should be allowed to go on as long as they don't obstruct traffic.

[thoreau]

Zorel-

Good, we agree so far about what should happen in a hypothetical scenario where we know that the person involved will be peaceful.

What about the real world, where breach of peace is always a possibility? Should we pre-emptively deny them their right to peaceably assemble since that right might be abused, or should we wait for them to abuse that right? Before you answer, let me ask another question: Should we pre-emptively deny people their right to keep and bear arms since that right might be abused, or should we wait for them to abuse that right?

[Legend]

Hey, when they start with the state of the "grass", it's obviously only an excuse. Look, in the most repressive societies, the press (and free speech) have been treated pretty liberally: they could post ads about concerts, dances,announce births, weddings and obituaries, print gossip about entertainment figures, even (sometimes) political figures. But then, there's always that "one little thing"-anything against the standing government must go.

It's the same with the use of the Great Lawn: for Concerts, plays, charity "walks" and "runs" are usually fine: have a good time, hope you raise a lot for your cause. But bring politics in, and, suddenly, the public park becomes a private preserve! Now, I'm all for warning the people to be careful, but do you think the parks Commission has any intention of passing out little flyers, carefully explaining the ecology of the Lawn, and the care it needs? I think not. They'd rather send out burly, well-armed cops, positions on ecology unknown, to ADD to the ecological damage! Please: don't let THIS intimidate you (the idea that you're damaging a great piece of land). There are preserves for that. This protest has the potential of being the greatest human rights, pro-constitutional event of this century! If damage to the park is all that's keeping you away, don't let it!!!

[James]

"If you show up, rmember, no one sent you." It's a shame it's come to that, but leaderless organizing is one of the weapons repressed societies have. Another is for the leaders to assume "noms du guerre" or aliases and keep themselves hidden, with their declarations and manifestos printed in hidden facilities and disseminated by expendable volunteers.

When pirates were negotiating their surrender or amnesty with government forces, they would sign their names at the bottom of their messages in a circle, so that no man could be identified as a leader and hung. This is the origin of the term "round robin." Or so I've read.

[Shem]

"The only way these morons could make news is by resorting to violence (as in Seattle, Canada, etc.)."

Y'know, I was in Seattle and if it were even a quarter as violent as it was made out to be there then the city would have burned down. Most of the problems involved police overreaction that was in turn played up by reporters looking for a good story. It has made me very suspiscious when the media claims that violence has errupted in the streets.

[kevrob]

Somehow, I am having a hard time envisioning Barbara Bush as the Lady Jessica, though the prospect of George W. undergoing the gom jabbar ritual is an amusing thought.

Does this make Cheney a ghola? He has been brought back to life by the docs.

Kevin

[dhex]

grass, smass. ok, that doeszn't sound as good as i thought it would, but summerstage does three months of free concerts with thousands of fucks trampling the grass all of the time. and it's 35 blocks away. so like, it's pretty fucked.

[Rick Barton]

TWC,

Thank you, I knew that I might be quoted, but I didn't know that I actually had been. I hope I'll be able to get a copy of the fund raising letter.

[Native NYer]

Some of the reluctance to issue protest permits for Central Park is due to the cabal of society biddies who now think THEY own the park:

http://www.centralparknyc.org/thenandnow/cpc-history/ataglance

Used to be you could wander off the paths for a doobie or something, but now ALL grassy areas have been fenced in. Can't spoil the green lawns for the ladies who lunch!

[MJ]

If Bush/GOP=Atreides, then the Dems must the Harkonnens? Perhaps Ted Kennedy as Baron Vladimir, and John Kerry as Feyd, and Al Gore as "Beast" Rabban?

[zorel]

thoreau,

where did you get the idea that I am AGAINST the first and FOR the second. the whole point of the Second is so "people" can protect the First and other Bill of Rights from the imperial federal govt.

I am all for letting people march to the convention in a large group. If they turn violent, the police can deal with it and let you folks cry out against the police brutality - that will give the ACLU something to do too 🙂

Even at the G-8 summit, I was siding with the local city govt that wanted to protect its property from the goons (based on past experience) You do agree that your right to protest something shouldn't top my property rights, don't you?

I am for pre-emtion when it comes to dealing with the Osamas and Saddams of this world, though. If you have a problem with that, we can certainly discuss.

[thoreau]

I think Bush Sr. was the Kwisatz Haderach, with his relatively short reign, and Bush Jr. will be the God Emperor and reign for thousands of years.