What Hasn't Changed in Air Defense Since 9/11

Flight attendents are still trained to submit to hijackers, says a Washington Times story, reporting on testimony by the president of the Association of Flight Attendents to the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee.

Comments

[libertarians4kerry]

Wow brian, what are you suggesting? that they fight back? real original neocon. meanwhile some of us real libertarians know that the key is NON-AGRESSSION. you warmongers make me sick. go see Moore's 911 and understand what a right-wing dittohead caveman you are.

think for yourself!

[Lisa Simpson]

Everybody thinks they think for themselves, and that people with whom they disagree do not.

[Ruthless]

The role of flight attendants has evolved over the years from stewardesses to bouncers.
Bouncers should not be trained to submit. Makes no sense.

[Call me snake]

The flight attendant's submission might turn out to be a good distraction as it may take me 3-5 seconds to aim the scalding coffee, several 12 oz. can missiles and finally the beverage cart itself.

[Todd Fletcher]

Is it just me or are we getting more trolls here lately?

["Todd Fletcher"]

Is every satirical comment a troll?

[thoreau]

Ok, I'll call you snake.

I completely agree that it can make sense to appear to submit while waiting for the most advantageous moment to strike back. But from what I saw in the article there was no implication that flight attendants were being trained to appear to submit while waiting for the right moment to hurl hot coffee.

Fortunately, I doubt that passengers will be so submissive if a plane is hijacked. The choice is between fighting back and possibly dying, or not fighting back and definitely dying in a crash that also takes out a large building full of people. And I suspect that flight attendants will put aside their training and fight back as well.

So I think that common sense and survival instinct will be sufficient to impede hijackings in the future. That said, since when has the federal government ever left a situation alone and trusted We the People to use our own good sense? No doubt they'll find a way to screw this up.

[John Doe]

Airlines may be afraid of liability issues if employees use force against non-hijackers. Perhaps laws need to protect airlines and their employees given the need to maintain safety. Then they could be given non-lethal weapons and trained in their use. We need to accept however that allowing self defense means that a few innocent people will be injured or killed from time to time. The country needs to decide if it is willing to kill a few in order to prevent many more from being killed. Europeans have decided that they are not willing to do that, which is why self defense is not recognized under European law.

[joe]

Well put, Ruthless.

thoreau, I'm not so sure. Old fashioned hijackings are still at least in the realm of the possible. If three hairy Marxists order the pilot to fly to Cuba, they're probably not going to crash into a highrise.

Do you think old school hijackers are pissed at Al Qaeda for ruining their gig?

[thoreau]

Joe-

I suspect that most passengers would "err" on the side of caution and beat the crap out of 3 hairy Marxist hijackers.

I can just see the talk at a meeting of old school terrorists: "Those darn kids these days are so hot-headed! They've ruined it for the rest of us!"

[R C Dean]

meanwhile some of us real libertarians know that the key is NON-AGRESSSION.

Non-aggression has nothing to do with submitting to an assault. Non-aggression means that a libertarian will not commence aggressive actions. Non-aggression does not rule out the use of violence, even terminal violence, in self-defense.

Few libertarians are pacifists (passivists, whatever). Indeed, the libertarian spirit of self-reliance calls on the individual to see to their own security, and calls for a willingness to defend yourself and others. Much as the passengers on Flight 91 did.

[thoreau]

R C Dean-

Don't feed the trolls.

[joe]

"I suspect that most passengers would "err" on the side of caution and beat the crap out of 3 hairy Marxist hijackers."{

You're probably right. But if they were holding hand grenades and allowing the pilots to stay at teh controls, would it really be caution?

[brooklyn dave]

I say make the hijackers submit to that shitty airplane food and cheap ass booze. Silly comments aside, I really wonder how aware both staff and passengers were that the 9/11 hijackers were only armed with box cutters? A more plausible argument would be assess the situation, but in our litigious society the first thing that comes to mind is law-suit.

[Jason Ligon]

They can submit if they want, that doesn't mean everyone else will.

[Ruthless]

How many here can boast of almost being apprehended by a Sky Marshall?
Happened going on an old propeller job from Cincinnati to Milwaukee. (For the Marshall, this route must have been the equivalent of being banished to the Aleutian Islands.)
I had made the mistake of trying to amuse my fellow passengers with the "Hi, Jack!" routine.
This was back when hijacking to Cuba was all the rage.
The Marshall had his impressive badge buried in a cut-out of a paperback book. He let me off with a warning.

[JD]

brooklyn dave - Are we sure that it was only boxcutters? From the radio transcripts, it appears that some kind of chemical was used and the hijackers may have claimed to have bombs on the planes.

Of course, the whole thing was excellent tactics but crappy strategy. As has already been commented, they queered the whole traditional hijacking pitch. Previously, if the guy said he had a bomb, the smart thing was to take him at his word. Now, since it looks like you'll probably die anyway, the smart thing is to call his bluff.

[joe]

As a government employee, let me just say...

You rule Ruthless!

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Flight attendants on commercial airlines are still being trained to cooperate with hijackers and be victims rather than fight back, despite the attcks of September 11."

A typo in first sentence of the article.. typical moonie journalism.

I like it that they're proposing giving flight attendants "martial arts training". I would love to watch some of that sexy Charlie-Angels-esqe action.