Teacher Disunion

Ryan Sager writes that the more the National Education Association tightens its grasp, the more Democratic pols slip through its fingers.

Comments

[Mark S.]

No! Washington D.C. is peac... oh wait. Go ahead. In fact, can I push the button?

[JDM]

"What's going wrong for America's largest teachers union?"

Just a guess, but maybe people are starting to wake up to the fact that it's destroying American education?

[KentInDC]

Grand Moff,
I think your troops have already paid a visit - some time ago, in fact. Few survived.

[The Serpent]

The NEA is an Atheist missionary organization.

Their whole purpose is to brainwash your child into a mindless Secular zombie.

You will be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.

[NEA Press Release]

All your children are belong to us

[M1EK]

From the article:

"It's a tantalizing prospect for those who want to put children first and fix our terrible, horrible, no good, very bad public-school system."

Whenever I see hyperbole like this, I discount the author. Myself and all of my cohort went to public schools all over this country, and we're all financially successful (mostly high-tech).

If I was to anectodally extrapolate from my own experience, I'd say we need to shut down private schools, because they only produce coke-snorting trust-fund-wasting useless parasites.

[Jose Ortega y Gasset]

What a coincidence... whenever I see a public policy position based solely on personal experience, I discount the author.

[js]

Yes I'm middle class but that has everything to do with luck and a middle class upbringing and almost nothing to do with my schooling. California public schools are aweful, simply aweful. May they burn in hell for wasting 18 years of my life.

[JDM]

That's "awful." Your point is made.

[stubby]

I would sell anything I had to, short of my soul, in order to send my daughter to private school. Fortunately, it's not going to be that dramactic cos we've been saving, but the point remains, no way in hell will she go to a public school in Houston, Texas.

Don't have time to look up the exact phrase, but I'm sure ya'll have seen the bumper sticker that goes something like: It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

Hell, when I've had a couple drinks I even start thinking about home schooling.

[The Serpent]

M1EK: Whenever I see hyperbole like this, I discount the author. Myself and all of my cohort went to public schools all over this country, and we're all financially successful (mostly high-tech).

So you are asserting that when it comes to education the government provides the best bang for your buck?

No one else is capable of educating your children like the NEA?

Do you believe the government and the NEA have some ?magic? power that causes them to be the most efficient provider of ?education? for your children?

Democracy and Capitalism don?t apply where education is concerned?

[Czar]

Being old enough to be objective and young enough not to have forgotten most of the experience, I can say quite simply that anything of worth I learned during my years in public school, I learned by taking it upon myself to read, study and remember. The only class that was worth the time it took to attend was journalism, and only because it was more along the lines of a disorganized debate team than an actual attempt at creating a newspaper.

[Mark Anderson]

"It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists"

This doesn't make any sense. I mean, I went to a private school so I should know.

Just curious,
I realize that everyone here has had the experience of high school so we all consider ourselves experts, but is anyone on this list a teacher, admin., or someone actually doing something about education in this country besides blaming the NEA and public schools?

[Jose Ortega y Gasset]

To answer your question, I have never worked for a Board of Education, however, a good deal of my career I have dealt with local Boards on a professional level. I have worked directly with teachers and administrators. My criticism of particular public school systems are based on direct experience with those systems. From a public policy perspective, I rely on research to tell me that American public schools do a lousy job educating youth and a fairly good job compensating educators... a finding uncontested by my personal experiences with public school systems.

[The Norwegian Ice Weasel]

Serpent said -

?M1EK: Whenever I see hyperbole like this, I discount the author. Myself and all of my cohort went to public schools all over this country, and we're all financially successful (mostly high-tech).

So you are asserting that when it comes to education the government provides the best bang for your buck?
No one else is capable of educating your children like the NEA?
Do you believe the government and the NEA have some ?magic? power that causes them to be the most efficient provider of ?education? for your children?
Democracy and Capitalism don?t apply where education is concerned??
------------------------
So does this mean that your reading comprehension is at the level of a 9 year old?

That you?re looking to pick a verbal fight by drawing absurd conclusions far beyond what is actually warranted by the statement you?re referring to?

That, when all is said and done, you?re really not much more than a troll on these pages?

[KentInDC]

Czar,
Let me preface this by saying that I am for abolition of public schools so that no one gets the idea that I am defending them. I spent time in both public and private schools and the biggest difference I found was expectations from teachers and other students - they were higher in private school in my case. However, had I attended public school in an affluent suburb, I doubt the expectations would have been that different from those at my private school. In my experience, successful parents tend to have greater expectations of their children than less successful parents have of their children.

When people start talking about a place having "good schools" or "bad schools", I occassionally ask if they think there is much difference in the school itself or whether one school simply has better students to begin with because of the demographics of the community. Another factor in why the poor have worse schools is that the educrats and politicians don't take poor parents as seriously when they complain.

[KentInDC]

Jose,
Before I moved to the DC area, my experience had been that private school tuition was roughly half the average spending in public schools in the same area, which correlates with statistics I have read. However, since moving here I have heard coworkers talk of spending $15-20,000/year on private DAY schools for their kids. Arlington, VA spends $11,000/year on public school students, which I find a little excessive. I think there is a mentality in this area that if one spends more money they will get a better product. (What is the economic term for a product the demand for which goes up with price? I am thinking of starting a school and charging $50,000/year so everyone in town will want to send their kids.) Do you think that attitude could it be a result of so many people being involved in politics?

[The Serpent]

TNIW: So does this mean that your reading comprehension is at the level of a 9 year old?

Are you assuming that I went to public school or that I have completed the 9th grade already?

TNIW: That you?re looking to pick a verbal fight ?

Hmmm, so apparently you have fallen for my ?trap??

[Mo]

Kent,
I agree wholeheartedly. I went to a public school in CA (gasp) and learned a TON. I did well on all my APs and I did a lot of independent reading. I actually paid attention and tried to learn the material. All because I was expected to by my parents and the teachers helped encourage it.

I was hanging out w/ some old high school friends a few weeks back and I made a comment on some obscure historical fact. They all turned to me and one asked me where I learned that. I smiled and said, "11th grade AP US History, you sat right next to me back then." Kids get taught more in school than they learn.

FYI, I'm not a big fan of public schools. I'd prefer a voucher system any day of the week.

[Jose Ortega y Gasset]

Kent,

The term you are searching for escapes me, but I would describe as something of a luxury effect. In rare instances, I suppose it is possible that increase of price in a good fosters the perception that the good is more desirable. Terms with which I am more familiar are conspicious consumption and pecuniary emulation a la Thorstein Veblen.

In Washington, D.C., I suspect that private schools are something of a prestige item. Veblen would suggest it is not only important for the sake of the child's education, but for the sake of parents telling friends and neighbors, "My child is attending the XYZ Academy." Veblen might also suggest some send children to private schools because it is "what people do in DC."

I think the issue may be simpler. The public schools in DC are some of the worst in the nation, therefore, there is a strong incentive to seek alternatives. The area (at least outside the City itself) is quite affluent... witness the demographics of Montgomery County. I don't think the issue is politics as much as it is affluence and incentive. I am not certain the higher prices are actually inducing the choice to send a child to private rather than public schools, but it is an interesting microeconomic question.

[Jennifer]

I was a high-school English teacher for three years, and recently ran screaming back to the arms of the private sector. I personally had no bad experiences with the NEA, but I'll say this: thinking that the NEA is the only thing wrong with American education is like thinking Bin Laden is the only thing wrong with Islamic extremism. Teachers are expected to "open kids' minds" and "teach them to think for themselves," yet at the same time we don't dare say or do anything that might possibly offend the parents. Kids with criminal records have a "right" to an education, but teachers don't have the right to know that their students are dangerous. Special-ed kids cannot be disciplined at all. Failures cannot be held accountable for their failure, because that might damage the kids' self-esteem.

True anecdote, before I make my dinner: I taught "Merchant of Venice" to seniors one year; in it there's a line where one character is insulting another, by saying something along the lines of "He damns the ears of all who hear him, by calling him 'fool.'" One of the kids asked me what that meant, so I explained that one of the lesser-known verses of the Book of Matthew has Jesus saying that anyone who calls another a fool will be damned. (I recited chapter and verse, though I can't remember it now.) I went on to talk about the very funny use Voltaire made of that in his essay "The Jesuit Berthier" (an angel tells a priest to stop giving his stupid, boring sermons, because instead of winning souls for God he's endangering the souls of all who hear him, because they all call him a fool), and explained also that this is why cartoony villians in movies developed the habit of using "Fool!" as their default insult; for people familiar with the Bible, the fact that the villian always says "Fool!" is just one more proof that this is an evil, evil dude.

"So anyway," I said to the class, "back in Shakespeare's day, when people were far more familiar with the Bible than they are now, instead of insulting someone by saying 'You are a fool,' you'd say 'You are a--well, I can't SAY what you are because then I'd go to hell.' That's what he's doing in the play."

Next day I get called into the principal's office; some parents were FURIOUS that I had told their kids that Jesus said anyone who says 'fool,' will go to Hell.

"But he did," I pointed out.

"It doesn't matter, Jennifer. You can't insult kids' religions."

"Well, the kid asked me what that line from the play meant! What was I supposed to do?"

"Just tell him you don't know."

[Jennifer]

Found it:

(Matthew 5:22) - "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

[KentInDC]

Sad to think that Mr. T is hell-bound.

[Captain Spaulding]

I think the Mr. T's willingness to pity fools will count in his favor.

[kevrob]

"...terrible, horrible, no good, very bad public-school system."

What, are some unfamiliar with Judith Viorst's Alexander?

Kevin

[Grand Moff NEA]

In a way, Sanchez, you have determined the choice of the school system that will be destroyed first. Since you are reluctant to provide us with the location of the Reason base, I have chosen to test this union's destructive power on your school district in Washington, DC.

[Bruce Bartlett]

I'm surprised that someone who taught English would misspell the word "villain" not once, but twice (as villian).

[KentInDC]

Steven Crane,
That is it. Thanks. I am told that some foreign carmakers, at least at one time, refused to allow their US dealers to sell cars at below set prices because they believed the demand would go down if the cars lost the snob appeal of the high prices. The example Giffen himself gave was bread prices going up resulting in increased demand because the poor couldn't afford as much meat, but could still afford to replace some of their meat consumption with more bread. That is just the opposite of the imported car example I just gave. There is always SOME explanation for any demand/supply relationship - even if we can't figure it out.

[KentInDC]

Steven Crane,
I did a little searching and I think my example is more properly called a "Veblen good." Giffen goods are inferior goods the demand for which increases with price, while Veblen goods are luxury items the demand for which increases with price. The actual existence of both is doubted by many economists.

I read "Engineers and the Price System" by Veblen many years ago - what nonsense. He kept referring to "Vested Interests" as some refer to the Illuminati. I don't think the U of Chicago brags about his association with the school. To the university's credit, they fired him.

[Jennifer]

Bruce-
That's why checking your rough drafts is always important.

[Roger Sweeny]

Wikipedia has a fairly comprehensive article on Giffen goods and Veblen goods. Depending on how strictly you define them, they either don't exist or are very rare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_goods

[Joe Middelkoop]

You might find this interesting, Jennifer. I'm on my second degree in Theology and Religious Studies. Just to explain to everybody what that section of the Bible is talking about. . . If you look at the entire context from the Bible regarding Matthew 5:21-22, you'll see that what Jesus is saying is that language is not supposed to be Politically Correct.

The city council would bring charges against certain people for using curses against each other, because -- similar to today's society-- it would be considered offensive and potentially volitile, particularly given the various social and ethnic rivalries in Israel at the time of the Roman occupation.

But even if you use less-offensive words, if you hate someone enough to kill them, then your words would endanger you to eternal condemnation because they reflect the hypocrisy of your true intentions and your raw desire for hate. Thus, you would be doubly wrong: filled with hatred, but escaping the intention of the law by choosing your words to conform within the bounds of censored speech.

Ironically, the parents who expressed fury at the fact that these words are attributed to Jesus, are the same type of people that Jesus would condemn for their hypocrisy for using "fairness" as an excuse for intolerance.

The Biblical concept of "Law" is that it is something which is carried within people, and should be kept not due to external conformity, but an internal desire for justice that is best understood in relation to God. (Matthew 5:17-20)

Jesus condemned the Jewish Pharisees (theocratic legal experts) of the time for their hyper-legalism and called them "blind fools," as well as some other pretty severe language, demonstrating that language itself is secondary to the results of one's intentions. (Matthew 23)

Moral outrage as a disguise for manipulating the intersection of religious history with other historical knowledge-- whether one agrees with certain beliefs or not-- is an attempt to conveniently suppress the need for intelligent debate.

[John Hensley]

Wishful thinking and anecdotal evidence. The NEA's primary function is defending the federal education grant system. Anyone who thinks there is broad opposition to that system missed the 2001 education act vote.

[dhex]

jen: we're waiting on that book. no one would believe it.

too bad you never tape recorded that stuff. it's got SHINY BLACKMAIL written all over it.

[Steven Crane]

KentinDC, I believe the term you are looking for is a "Giffen good". It's a funny little phenomena that can usually be explained away.

[Steve M]

I'm a relatively new teacher (in my 3rd year) at a small rural school in central Florida. I have a BA in History and my MED in Social Studies. In an effort to broaden the learning and educational opportunities of my students, I inquired as to how I would go about establishing an Advanced Placement program in the history department. I was told to forget it. The school board had no interest in spending the funds to send me to the training classes or buying the texts. More importantly, I was told that the school board had no interest in establishing a program that MIGHT have a high rate of failure.
As a side note, the valedictorian of my school chose to attend community college because she did not want to write the essay for a four year school. I have been shocked and discouraged by how horrible the student skills are in writing, and how little effort they wish to put in their work. I had students in my honors class complain because they had to read and write alot and the class WASN'T honors ENGLISH after all!
These kids don't want to learn. They want everything handed to them pre-packaged. I am seriously reconsidering my career choice.

[Daniel Kravetz]

Jennifer has stated that she lost a public school teaching job because she gave a correct explanation of a line in THE MERCHANT OF VENICE. How about naming the school where this happened, the city where it took place, and the appointed or elected official who made the decision to end her employment? Anyone on the public payroll who would deprive a teacher of her job for this reason, and would deprive pupils of the services of a gifted teacher deserves some public attention.

[rmc]

"Jennifer has stated that she lost a public school teaching job because she gave a correct explanation of a line in THE MERCHANT OF VENICE."

I read and reread her posts, and I don't see where she said she lost her job over that incident. She "ran screaming back to the arms of the private sector" but this could just be because she was sick of all the BS. Maybe Jennifer can clarify? This has been picked up in a number of other blogs and has got some people worked up in a lather.