No, Wait, Discriminate Against Me!

A judge in New Jersey has ruled that "ladies night" promotions, wherein women get cheaper drinks or a reduced cover charge, are discriminatory against men, and therefore illegal. As Jakeneck observes, many of the male barhoppers now freed from this insidious discrimination may not appreciate it all that much.

Interesting to see the piece's account of the legal reasoning that's allowed such promotions to stand in other states, though:

Judges in Pennsylvania and Iowa have said similar events are illegal, but courts in Illinois and Washington state have said that ladies nights are permissible because they do not discriminate against men but rather encourage women to attend.

That, of course, doesn't make any sense either, since a method of encouraging women to attend can (and, insofar as its targeted at women, would almost have to) also be discriminatory.

Comments

[brooke]

Chauncey Gardener, you are my favorite. "As long as the roots are not severed, all is well." Ha.

Anyway, back on topic. Not to be crass, but don't those judges realize that the men benefit (although certainly in a different way) from Ladies Night specials too? What if men collectively decide that they appreciate the value of a bunch of drunk chicks in a bar as much as women appreciate the value of free admission and cheap drinks?

[Pedro]

These daily stories about the inconceivable stupidity in all acts of government are just flat out depressing. The fact these laws are made doesn't suprise me - I'm sure legislators have very good personal reasons for passing them (funding, favours, the thrill of stomping on someone with less power). What pisses me off is that most people hear of a story like this and think - "Gees, I never thought of it that way. I guess it makes sense..."

PS - Toronto went non-smoking yesterday. In about 6 months, I'll have to either drive to Montreal or fly to Vegas to enjoy a meal with a fucking cigarrette.

PSS - When I was about 16 yrs old, and after years of being taught about the evils of discrimination, my friend decided to have some fun with me by arguing that I was being discriminatory by not being attracted to an ugly girl - I was discriminating against ugly girls. I was firmly convinced that he didn't understand the meaning of "discrimination"...

[Mark S.]

Brooke has a point, albeit a little crass. The women benefit from the lower cost drinks. The men benefit by having a larger selection of potential sex partners available. The bars enjoy a more customers to offset the money they would loose by offering the lower priced drinks to women. Everybody wins.

Of course that doesn't matter to the believers in absolute egalitarianism. The guy who brought this suit must be a either be gay or a eunuch.

[fyodor]

I wonder who BROUGHT this suit?? (The linked article doesn't seem to say...)

[The Lone Eunuch]

I brought the suit 'cause those drunken sluts wouldn't give me their phone numbers.

[Julian Sanchez]

The article gives the guy's name as David Gillespie; no idea whether there's any relation there, though I know Nick hails from Jersey originally...

[dhex]

maybe he's an alcoholic on a budget and feels left out?

aye dunno. all this shit is a crazy waste of time, and makes lawyer eschaton 2004 seem like a better idea each passing day.

[madpad]

Eunuch,

A slut is a girl that'll sleep with anyone.

A bitch is a girl that'll sleep with anyone but you.

[Franklin Harris]

A local oil-change place has a "ladies day" to lure in female drivers. I could sue, but what would I win? Women drivers are bad enough without their being in ill-maintained vehicles.

(Puts on asbestos suit.)

[Douglas Fletcher]

I think we should make procrastination a guiding principle in civil jurisprudence. If ever there was a decision that should just be put off until another day, this is it.

[Lisa Simpson]

No flames from me, and I'm a chick. I find female drivers, on the whole, slow and/or inattentive. (Though possibly more gracious about being passed and getting out of the fast lane asap.)

[c]

speaking of female drivers, does this legal ruling pave the way for suits against car insurance carriers who use sex as a criteria for determining insurance rates? How about life insurance carriers?

[L.athrop V. Wenschbygger III]

This is just backlash to the many inane discrimination cases that have been leveled from the other direction. Refreshing in a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' way.

A few years back here in Washington State we had a woman legislator seriously pursuing legislation because she observed that womens haircuts generally cost more than mens. Naturally she viewed this as a conspiracy by businesses to gouge females, despite the fact that women's styles took a lot more time and energy to do than the buzz cuts that men put up with.

Subsidising ladies at bars? The other side of the coin.

So much of these discrimination cases are really just chauvinism-- blind promotion of ones own group against all others.

[Ben]

Isn't the fundamental point here not that this really isn't a form of discrimination or that this is a stupid lawsuit, but that the owner of a business should be allowed to offer any specials he chooses to any potential customer he chooses?

[Ayatollah Usoe]

Well, this is one of those affirmative action type problems. Good discrimination should be allowed, but evil discrimination must be stomped out. Here the judge couldn't tell good from evil, and stamped out the drunk-chick incentive. Gee, the defense should have argued this is to make up for years of oppression.

Interestingly enough, when the line out the door of the womens rest room gets too long, and a chick wanders into the mens room, suddenly we're supposed to start discriminating again.

[kevrob]

Tavern owners who want to fight this idiocy should institute "skirt night." Those receiving free admission or discounts would be:

1.) Women in skirts or dresses.

2.) Men in kilts, brats, breechclouts, togae,
cassocks, etc.

3.) Transvestites and transexuals.

They won't be able to say you aren't drawing a diverse crowd. There's no way the state should forbid an ordinary ladies' night, of course, but until such time as an appeal can be won, steps can be taken.

A special on fajitas might be appropriate, too.

Kevin

[Trey]

Ah, skirt steak.

It took me a minute, and I eat fajitas every chance I get!

Would a mu-mu count as a skirt, by the way?

[Mackey]

But I can still listen to the song "Ladies' Night," right?

[jon]

We better get those age-discrimination suits going before the Baby Boomers start to see their discounts as earned. Damnit, they take up the same amount of seat at the movies, the same amount of food at the restaurant, and the same amount of space on the bus.

[Chauncey Gardener]

I never discriminate. Everything is the same to me.

[EH]

"Gee, the defense should have argued this is to make up for years of oppression."

And if that fails, then it's to promote diversity.

[kevrob]

Trey got fajitas in uno. A mu-mu would qualify, but might I recommend the more stylish kikepa?

The Utilikilts guys have a page of links that discuss all sorts of eligible attire.

http://www.kiltmen.com/links.htm

Kevin

[poop]

The thing about this ruling is that it's necessary to maintain a consistent non-discrimination policy. That's the direction this country is moving in, and I think it's pretty much either/or. We can't have laws preventing you from saying "white's night" or "hetero night", and not have laws agains "ladies night". Now, a system that is consistent within itself can still be proven false in a larger context of course, and I hope that's what we end up seeing here - people saying "What then he** is wrong with us - we absolutely have the right to ladies' night, and so for consistence, we must refrain from immorally restricting the rights of bar owners". I hope.

[Ken Shultz]

My Mexican slang isn't all that great, but I think that "fajita" is slang for an old lady. Here in LA, showing up on fajita skirt night could be extremely disappointing.

P.S. Since when do women have to pay for drinks?

[Neil Lindsey]

So the Bozo that brought this suit couldn't even find a lady to buy reduced price drinks for him (with his money)? So he's cheap, ugly, has no manner with ladies and he's still paying full price for his drinks. Way to go, pal.

[M. Simon]

From a bar owners perspective the purpose of a ladies night is to bring more men into the bar.

Of course the law can't handle nuance.

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