"Video Shows Beheading of American in Iraq"

That's the grim headline of a new story out of Iraq. U.S. citizen Nick Berg, who went missing in Iraq on April 9.

A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq (news - web sites), and said the execution was carried out by an al-Qaida affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi ? an associated of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) ? was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

Al-Zarqawi also is said to have ties to terrorist groups ranging from Ansar al Islam in Iraq to Egyptian Islamic Jihad. He's believed to be behind many attacks in Iraq, including numerous high-profile operations.

Whole thing here. Apart from all other considerations, it seems to me that this sort of atrocity is far more likely to extend US involvement rather than speed up its end. If the Abu Ghraib abuses have made many Americans--including war supporters--question the U.S. mission there, this sort of thing, like the Daniel Pearl murder, makes Americans want to slug things out more.

Comments

[Baylen]

Here's an equally grim headline from the AP:

"Pa. Man's Beheading in Iraq Upsets Family"

Well, no shit.

Full story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/iraq_american_found

[Earl]

To be honest, I don't feel so bad about the prison abuse any more.

[Not Shannon]

But let's not forget: Saddam did much worse than beheading people! And beheading isn't really torture.

[Eazy]

We don't know what Berg was doing in Iraq, but here's a key item from this news story:

[Nick's father] Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive had he not been detained by U.S. officials in Iraq without being charged and without access to a lawyer.

http://pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-16/108430077760820.xml

[Andrew Lynch]

That's too bad, Earl. Looks like you're another ping-pong ball in this global game of emotional manipulation.

[Eazy]

Earl, I hope the guard who are watching over all of the UNINVOLVED detainees aren't feeling the same way you are.

I wonder how many people really hate Iraqis in general and justified the war simply as revenge -- and thus will not be happy with any possible outcome of this other than levelling the place.

Sounds extreme, but it's an extreme wing of the party that happens to be in charge (Rove gave a rare public speech this week...at Liberty University).

[Randy]

Eazy--what the hell difference does it make what he was doing in Iraq? He was there to get a job rebuilding it, but I'll let you make up the worst thing you can imagine and my reply will be "so what?"

[Pavel]

Those who want the war to continue will use this to justify their ends. Anti-war people will use this to lament the war further.

The great thing about the ideologies that guide both extremes is that they're already constructed to absorb every possible outcome.

To paraphrase Ghandi. A head for a head and the whole world is...uh...headless.

[Eazy]

I prefaced the clip by saying "we don't know" to point out that we don't know whether the father's claim -- that the U.S. was wrong to detain him -- was substantial.

Whatever he was doing, he didn't deserve what happened.

[xray]

"this sort of atrocity is far more likely to extend US involvement rather than speed up its end"

That's exactly the goal of the terrorists. They want GWB to win the election, and they want the US to stay in Iraq. They are likely having brainstroming sessions right now to figure out what to do to keep Rummy in his job.

[jet]

Why is the media refusing to provide information (i.e., the web address) on the "Islamic militant Web site" that broadcast the beheading?

[dhex]

three cheers for giving the barbarous nutbags an entirely new justification for their medieval fuckwittedness.

and that is a goddamn stupid AP headline. of course it upsets them!

[Hydroman]

Why would an small independent telecomunications co. owner go into a war zone to peddle his wares?
Why not go to Arkansas or Somalia ?
Maybe he was after some of that $87 billion reconstruction money.

[Gawdamman]

Hmmm.......perhaps even the democrat/commies and some of their buddies in here will find this news a bit infuriating.
And to think this atrocity was a response to pictures of women laughing at Islamo-punks peepees!
There is little doubt in my mind that his kind of horror will eventually happen in this country.

[Eazy]

Kinda like Communism, Gawdamman?

[Todd Fletcher]

Now let's wait for the deafening chorus of condemnations from the Arab world for this atrocity. Just don't hold your breath.

[madpad]

I read he owned a communications company and was there trying to secure contracts to rebuild communications anteneas and was having no luck.

I'm as appalled by this as by our own problems in Abu Ghraib...but I think a lot more Americans are going to sympathize with Earl.

[Joe L.]

"That's exactly the goal of the terrorists. They want GWB to win the election, and they want the US to stay in Iraq. They are likely having brainstroming sessions right now to figure out what to do to keep Rummy in his job."- Of COURSE, X-ray, how obtuse of me. They LIKE dying by the thousands. Yes, yes, it's obvious they want GWB relected after all, he kicked them out of their homebase in Afghanistan and is drying up the arms and money terror support network. Whereas, that dangerous Mr Kerry wants more UN involvement in Iraq and views the War on Terror as primarily a law enforcement action...
Really, I can see why they GWB reelected, IF THEY WANT TO DIE AND LOSE THEIR WAR. Come on, they are not terribly bright guys who are very angry, I think that's all the justification that they need.

[s.a.m.]

Now let's wait for the deafening chorus of condemnations from the Arab world for this atrocity. Just don't hold your breath.

Todd, come on, your posts are usually more better than this. Beheading is still an acceptable practice in the Middle East culture, prancing around naked muslims and forcing them to perform homosexual acts is culturally abhorrent. Given the choices, a muslim would prefer beheading.

[garym]

Evidently terrorists do like dying, as long as they can kill infidels and then (they believe) get a harem in Heaven. And they find it quite useful if peaceful Moslems die, if it turns the survivors into violent Moslems. Al Qaeda may or may not want Bush in office (there was Afghanistan, after all), but they certainly want the Iraq mess to continue, and they want Americans as enraged as possible, so that Moslems will in turn be as enraged as possible.

[Mo]

These guys are monsters, what more can be said? I don't know about you guys, but I don't want our morality to be measured relative to these guys. Do we want to be the top honors student and be criticized for every B+ or the special ed student that gets a sticker for just trying? I want us to be the honors student, even though the road is tougher and filled with more peril.

First things first, we gotta find the perps and string 'em up Old West style. We can send them to Riker's and show them what real prison brutality is (I'm joking, I'm joking). 🙂

Joe L. You're not serious are you. I will not degrade President Bush's will, desire or ability to get his policies through, but they are hardly effective policies. I honestly believe that changing horses would be a wash in the management of the war. Bush and Rumsfeld have had a pretty crappy plan for Iraq and were completely ill prepared for the occupation, both in equipment and manpower. They ignored senior military leadership and set up a war plan that worked famously for the "combat phase" (read: the easy part) and dropped the ball during the occupation (read: the important part).

Sorry for that aside. We need to schedule their trial to occur in Iraq, immediately after we sentence the six morons. Show the Iraqis how to clean up trash and then let them do it themselves. We don't need to turn Iraq into the Hatfield and McCoys and have escalating prisoner executions and torture between the two sides.

[xray]

Joe L. Terrorists want everyone (not just muslims, but that's a start) to hate the US. Keeping Bush in power and keeping US soldiers on the ground in every messy locale possible will further that goal. You are obtuse if you think OBL and friends give a shit abt Kerry. You are also an idiot if you think the terrorists care abt anyone's lives. They hate the US. They want everyone to hate the US. Are you that dense that you think the terrorists would suddenly change their minds if a Dem was in the WH? Do you think they only started planning 9/11 when they saw Gore was going to lose in FLA?

[Sir Real]

Joe L.-

Body counts were the metric used to gauge the success of the Vietnam war as well.

You people really DON'T ever learn, do you?

[HH]

"That's exactly the goal of the terrorists. They want GWB to win the election, and they want the US to stay in Iraq. They are likely having brainstroming sessions right now to figure out what to do to keep Rummy in his job."

Er, don't those two goals contradict each other?

[Walter Wallis]

Hey, Xray. There is no doubt that the terrorists are praying for a Kerry victory. Remember Kerry bragging about all his foreign leader support?
I understand that in medevial England it was traditional to tip the headsman so he would strike true. Democrats have just updated the practice.

[HH]

"That's exactly the goal of the terrorists. They want GWB to win the election, and they want the US to stay in Iraq. They are likely having brainstroming sessions right now to figure out what to do to keep Rummy in his job."

Er, don't those two goals contradict each other?

[Eazy]

Now before we get to far in deciding whether our torture was justifiable -- especially in light of today's murder -- keep in mind that the Red Cross estimates that 70% to 90% of the detainees were in Abu Ghraib "by mistake".

But that was published in the ultraliberal Wall Street Journal, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Joe L.]

Sir Real, the insurgents coming INTO Iraq are not supported by the Iraqi's and there is a finite supply of Jihadis. I'd rather see them in Iraq than Madrid...
X-Ray: You're not a very nice fellow in your postings with those who disagree. So your point is what? That the Al-Quaeda Crew is very very angry and dangerous and so we should what? And if this be true should we not exercise every possibility to kill them? Actually your point eluded me, I'm slow and dense today, I guess.

[W. J. Clinton]

Why not go to Arkansas or Somalia ?

Yeah right, given those options, I would opt to go to Iraq myself. At least there is some military protection to be had in Iraq. Arkansas? You better be able to play the banjo and squeel like a pig!

[meep]

--keep in mind that the Red Cross estimates that 70% to 90% of the detainees were in Abu Ghraib "by mistake"--

Since when should I care what the Red Cross thinks about military security matters? Even if they happen to be correct, they have no expertise for judging the matter. No one believes the military when they speak about humanitarian principles; but for some reason, nonprofit humanitarian groups are treated as experts on military and legal matters?

[xray]

Joe L: Quit being so touchy. My point is that terrorists do not think the way you imagine they do. Terrorists will continue to change their goals and objectives because, really, all they want is to keep being terrorists.

[xray]

HH: which two goals are contradictory?

[Eazy]

I believe Major General Charles Hines, commandant of the Army's military-police school, who said:

"Turning a dog loose in a room of people? Loosing dogs on prisoners of war? I've never heard of it, and it would never have been tolerated. I would have never authorized it for interrogating or coercing prisoners. If I had, I'd have been put in jail or kicked out of the army."

* * *

Not to imply that it was authorized.

[Saddam]

Now you understand why you must torture, humiliate, and subjugate the people of Iraq, they're barbaric.

[Saddam]

Now you understand why you must torture, humiliate, and subjugate the people of Iraq, they're barbaric.

[Eric]

I wonder if Mr. Berg died for our vaunted "right to know" and incessant demands for "transparent government."

[Don]

"but they (the terrorists) certainly want the Iraq mess to continue,"

More specifically, they don't want Iraq to turn into a democratic free market nation. That could spell the end to Islamic radicalism in the long run.

[Jesse Walker]

Since when should I care what the Red Cross thinks about military security matters? Even if they happen to be correct, they have no expertise for judging the matter. No one believes the military when they speak about humanitarian principles; but for some reason, nonprofit humanitarian groups are treated as experts on military and legal matters?

The Red Cross attributes the figure to military officials they interviewed.

[R C Dean]

When the Red Cross says "by mistake", do they mean we made a mistake in arresting them, or they made a mistake in getting caught?

[Jennifer]

Let me get this straight-SOME Iraqis are murderous fucks, therefore any random Iraqi is fair game for revenge. That's the same rationale Bin Laden and Co. use to justify attacks on any random Americans. Why is it okay for us to have that attitude, but not them?

Never mind, it was a rhetorical question.

[Eazy]

Yep, Jennifer, that's the problem...

[Walter Wallis]

There is a difference between cutting off a prisoner's priveleges and cutting off his head. Most democrats seem incapable of understanding that difference. And all the guards were democrats.

[Jennifer]

The prisoners were NOT the ones responsible for the beheading! Do you think it would be acceptable for YOU to be sodomized, in retaliation for the actions of Lynndie England and her friends? After all, you're an American, and so is she.

I am NOT justifying the beheading; I am addressing those who would use that as a justification for the torture of Iraqi prisoners.

[moonbiter]

Let me get this straight-SOME Iraqis are murderous fucks, therefore any random Iraqi is fair game for revenge.

It used to be when some fucking nutter went and shot up a McDonalds or murdered a lot of people, it was recognized that it was because he was a fucking nutter, and not because he was from a particular ethnic group. Now, it seems, we are falling into the Israeli policy of making any and all attacks by certain Muslims justification to blame all Muslims.

If that is actually the case, we are fucking doomed to become just like that we fought so hard against in the past.

[meep]

--The Red Cross attributes the figure to military officials they interviewed.--

That doesn't really change my question. If those figures are anywhere near accurate, why not report quotes from the military? Surely officers can report to journalists what they can report to the Red Cross...

Or is this a case of heavy "interpretation" on their part. Ted Rall could interview the same officers and give you his estimate, but without some more direct admissions, I'm not willing to take those numbers as legitimate, since they are given by a group that (somewhat morbidly, but honestly) has a vested interest in human suffering. I'm not saying I disbelieve the numbers on faith, but the Red Cross wouldn't be getting media time if they estimated 10%

[Matthew Cromer]

Stop talking. Watch the video.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/iraq2vediom2.wmv

Then think and reflect upon whether or not we can live in peace with the 5 men on the video, and those like them.

We either fix the spawning grounds, or we destroy it. The nuke in DC, Tel Aviv, and London will make the decision for us.

[Jennifer]

I hope no murderous Oklahomans decide to take revenge on me, because my ethnic background is similar to that of Timothy McVeigh. After all, *A* blue-eyed blonde bombed the federal building; therefore, blue-eyed blondes must be held accountable!

[Jennifer]

"think and reflect upon whether or not we can live in peace with the 5 men on the video, and those like them."

By "those like them," do you mean murderers, or Iraqis? I'm sure we could learn to live with the latter.

[Rick Barton]

Now it's WAY past time for our government to leave Iraq. What reasonably expected result could possibly justify the further anticipated (even greater in light of the growing torture scandal) loss of American life?

Contact congress and tell them:

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

[Matthew Cromer]

Jennifer,

I mean Islamic fascists, of course. Not sure if they were Iraqis anyway.

[Gawdamman]

"It should be pointed out that the prisoners at Abu Ghraib are not Boy Scouts rounded up for jaywalking. These are bad guys who either blew up or shot a coalition member; or were caught assembling an explosive device; or were caught in a place where the makings of explosive devices were found; or were caught with a cache of weapons. See the pattern here?"......Rich Galen says these guys are true punks.
The Gawdamman sez that we'd better not forget that the Islamo-fascists have vowed to kill all non-believers. This proclamation includes women, children, and Libertarians as well.

[Mona]

moonbiter opines: "It used to be when some fucking nutter went and shot up a McDonalds or murdered a lot of people, it was recognized that it was because he was a fucking nutter, and not because he was from a particular ethnic group. Now, it seems, we are falling into the Israeli policy of making any and all attacks by certain Muslims justification to blame all Muslims.

If that is actually the case, we are fucking doomed to become just like that we fought so hard against in the past."

Look, the sad reality is that recently all of the people who do things like try to blow up the WTC, attack the U.S.S. Cole, try to assissinate a former U.S. president, hijack airliners and most recently do so to crash them into buildings, behead and kidnap American civilians like Berg and Pearl, all of these are Middle Eastern Muslims. They are *organized* and driven by a version of their religion that casts Westerners, and especially Americans, as the Great Satan who must die. They believe that if they die killing us they go to heaven and given the tender ministrations of scads of nubile virgins. If they are "nutters," they are so in the same respect as were the Dominicans who carried out the witch burnings and tortures in medieval Europe -- that is, they work in concert and are bound by a common purpose.

By contrast, folks that shoot-up Mickey D's or the post office are driven by various kinds of discrete personal demons and resentments, with no common enemy or worldview tying these random murders together. Geez.

We Americans are coming down hard and to great public fanfare on those of our own who committed the abuses as Abu Ghraib. When, I wonder, will we such an analogous response from Arabs regarding events such as slicing off the screaming Mr. Berg's head and videotaping the fun for later enjoyment?

--Mona--

[Jennifer]

Mona-
All of the terrorists are Middle Eastern Muslims, but it does not follow that all Middle Eastern Muslims are terrorists. Hell, all Nazis were Caucasians with Christian backgrounds, but that doesn't make all Caucasians with Christian backgrounds Nazis!

[Matthew Cromer]

Mona,

The sad truth is at some point it won't matter. If we and they don't fix their fucked up governments and societies, and they keep hitting us and killing more and more, we will destroy them utterly. It isn't moral, but it is what will happen. I don't think the left understands the gravity of the situation.

[Lefty Guy]

If we and they don't fix their fucked up governments and societies, and they keep hitting us and killing more and more, we will destroy them utterly. It isn't moral, but it is what will happen. I don't think the left understands the gravity of the situation.

Yeah we do. For example, We have been trying to end the war on drugs for over 30 years now. That RAVE act bomb dropped by an insurgent in our own clothing set us back a little, but we will continue until we can win back your freedom to your own body. You think beheading or getting stripped naked is torture, try 99 years for a 5x5 pot grow room or life for 3 hits of LSD at a grateful dead concert.

[Gawdamman]

Lefty Guy......If you're stupid enough to get caught with drugs maybe you need a little education?

[Jennifer]

Like, if Lefty Guy's 'stupid' enough to sit in his own home when the cops break the door down?

[Pavel]

We Americans are coming down hard and to great public fanfare on those of our own who committed the abuses as Abu Ghraib. When, I wonder, will we such an analogous response from Arabs regarding events such as slicing off the screaming Mr. Berg's head and videotaping the fun for later enjoyment?

As wonderful as this game of Are-You-Appalled-Enough? has been, I fail to see the point. We're better because investigations and publicity forced our government to pretend to be sorry, whereas the Arabs are mostly under no such constraint. Is that basically the point?

The Iraqis made this statement on the video apparently:

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused."

"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."

[Jennifer]

I wonder, if the Arab press comes out against this, will American hawks finally be willing to admit that what we did in Abu Ghraib is wrong?

[stubby]

I wonder - if I won a million dollars, would handle it responsibly? Cos that's about as likely as the "Arab press" coming out against Berg's beheading; without, that is, the Big But. (Of course it was horrible...BUT.....)

And I haven't seen any hawks denying that the Abu Ghraib abuses were wrong. Even Rush Limbaugh thinks it's wrong. It's just that hawks are unwilling to concede that what the 6 or so soliders at Abu Ghraib did was in any way comparable to what happened there under the previous regime.

[Jennifer]

Rush Limbaugh thinks "blowing off steam" is wrong?

[Jason Ligon]

Matthew Cromer poses the unaskable question. How do committed anti war types respond when you have locked up every terrorist you could prosecute in a court of law and the bombs keep coming?

There is no answer, becuase as long as you stay at home, no one will ever bother you and that is the end of the story.

Moderate doves all the way to Rumsfeld will only tolerate so many bombs before proportional retribution will be required. If you think we have a civil rights problem now, just allow any terrorist who so desires to have a middle eastern government destroy all of the evidence you would need to go after them under the 'terrorists are criminals' theory. Let him bomb with impunity. The result, at the end of the day, would be a whole lot of dead muslims.

[Rick Barton]

Matthew Cromer:

"If we and they don't fix their fucked up governments and societies, and they keep hitting us and killing more and more..."

The evidence is that; if we fix our own government's hyper-interventionist foreign policy, Visa a vie the Mid-East we won't be hit near as much, if at all.

[Les]

"Before they were prisoners they were shooting at Americans with the intent to kill them."

According to some Army officers, 70%-90% of all the prisoners there were mistakenly detained.

[Douglas Fletcher]

late report

"I wonder, if the Arab press comes out against this..."

Apparently in a lot of places they haven't even mentioned it, much less condemned it.

[Douglas Fletcher]

"I wonder, if the Arab press comes out against this, will American hawks finally be willing to admit that what we did in Abu Ghraib is wrong?"

Um, does the President count?

[Rick Barton]

Here this is:

Hizbollah Slams Beheading of American as Un-Islamic

http://au.news.yahoo.com/040512/15/p/oyu8.html

[MANUEL]

WELL I KNOW ITS SAD WHAT HAPPENED TO NICK BERG BUT WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND WE ARE NOT NO ANGELS EITHER FUCK BUSH IN HIS ASS............

[KYLE WIGHAM]

I think we need to show these people a little beheading of our own, mabye drop a few naked headless muslims off on the side of the road...I almost forgot we cant do that shity.

[VoiceOfTruth]

anyone still believing the words of the Red Cross should look up what they did with all the donations from 9/11... 70% they asurped for "office expenses" it was a big scandal in late 01/early 02...

[Mona]

Pavel writes: "As wonderful as this game of Are-You-Appalled-Enough? has been, I fail to see the point. We're better because investigations and publicity forced our government to pretend to be sorry, whereas the Arabs are mostly under no such constraint. Is that basically the point?"

Oh my god no! Do you think that is what drives the American response? Our populace will not suffer what went on at Abu Ghraib, and I do not think Dubya or most in D.C. of either party suffers it either.

We in the West, including America, have been conditioned by Enlightenment values -- including a lot of Xian religionists who do not always acknowledge the debt they owe for the civilizing influence of secular values -- to reject Abu Ghraib and to punish those who committed those acts. Good!

Pressure to investigate and apologize exists only because of a culture that demands it. While many Muslims reject such as Berg beheadings, their cultures do not demand the contrition and vigilance against such behavior that ours does. We are LUCKY by accident of history that bequeathed a superior political morality.

But really, do you think George Bush does not reject Abu Ghraib? I mean, do you think he is cynical in anything he says regretting it? If so, how can we hope to elect anyone from our midst whom we can trust to genuinely share in our cultural values of rejecting that kind of behavior? Is it hopeless? To be elected is to be a psychopathic monster?

--Mona--

[Alla]

I am a god or Satan if I tell well, I Created Islam but Now I'll tell you the true, Christianity is the only way, to the true God, the God of Israel.

[Umbraged]

"not shannon" wrote.

"But let's not forget: Saddam did much worse than beheading people! And beheading isn't really torture."

NOT REALLY TORTURE !

Have you seen that video in its entirety ?... Well I have, having found it on the web after a long search. I heard this tortured man's screams, I counted at least three full breath full volume screams from that poor man.

And I saw these animals-- these sub-humans-- in their masks saw his head off. It took at least 30 seconds.

Torture ?

The video tells all, the scenes the screams...

And we need deal with these beasts, these animals, these sub humans... Kill them, every one.

Rid the earth of their bestiality.

General Sherman once said, "War is hell"

Well that is what we should give them... Hell and send them there too... And for those that live.. Make them so sick of war that they will be loath to engage in it.

[Iguana]

"Uninvolved detainees"?

Before they were prisoners they were shooting at Americans with the intent to kill them.

[Black Hat]

Still waiting for the outraged condemnation from the Islamic American community.

And if that sonofabitch Bush is handing out reparations to guys who had chicks laugh at the size of their weenies, man, I'm first in line.

[PonderingPundit]

All-righty then...

IF,'..Beheading is still an acceptable practice in the Middle East culture, prancing around naked muslims and forcing them to perform homosexual acts is culturally abhorrent. Given the choices, a muslim would prefer beheading."

THEN,forget all the giggling girls, dog leashes, fake wires, frat house antics and so on.

Just cut off all their damn heads and be done with it.

[Umbrage]

We did not declare war on Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and all the other radical Islamic hate groups--- They declared war on us.

They killed 3,000 of our people in one day on September 11, 2001.

That was their calling card to us.

They demonstrated that they are indeed enemies of Western civilization. With minds locked in the Middle ages but with modern weapons in their hands, they are still fighting the Crusades, and they hate our way of life.

This is not propaganda... It is the plain truth.

This we cannot turn away from. It does not matter who is President, or what our economic interests are in that region-- It is a matter of whether we as a society will survive-- Or will we be so spineless as to allow our world to spiral down to the likes of monsters like these Islamic fundamentalists who with their cold hearts, and cold hands saw off a young man's head? With minds spawned out of the Middle Ages they wish to rule the earth.

These are the questions that we face. We must have the spine to take up the challenge that they imposed on us with 911.

"Wearethefuture" at 18 years-- yes that you are. I am 53 and I will not live to see what you will see.

I say this-- You and all of us must not turn away, there are no more "cheeks to turn." And without commitment to victory the future that you will face will be bleak indeed.

We are at war, a 3rd World War. And this one will go on for a very long time. Many lives will be lost.. that is a given.

But what is next?

Will we lose a city in a mushroom cloud to wake us up to the fact that we are in a World War?

I read that there are bombs missing from the former Soviet Union.

Where are they?

And even should this be a groundless rumor now, the technology is rapidly spreading where Al Queda and their supporters could obtain these weapons. And they are even now striving for them which they could obtain from any rogue nation that develops nuclear technology that also hates us.

This war must be fought, and we must win it.

Otherwise we will fall to those who wish for a world plunged into another dark age.

700 AD is not my cup of tea at all.

[Umbrage]

"The jews and americans have created this. Looks like there foreign policies are starting to catch up with them. I say its about time

Posted by australian at May 13, 2004 12:53 AM "

You, sir are an idiot.

If you in "down under" think that this does not affect you and that the "jews and Amercans are to blame"... You need to do your homework. Look at what these stone heads learn in their Islamic fundamentalist seminaries.

These groups from youth have been taught to hate western civilizatoin and that includes you blokes down under.

If you do not accept their doctrines they saw your head off for being an infidel.

It is that simple.

G'day..

[Umbrage]

Ghazanfarullah... very funny...

I have great umbrage at this act. It is horriffic that anyone can do such a thing to a human being. How could one live with what they have done as shown in this video ?

This is all very disturbing to me, the whole thing, the war in Iraq, 9/11 and all of this. It is a shock to my brain and my emotional response is a reflection of that.

I question the sanity of anyone that could do such a thing to a single human being as was done to Nick Berg, or Daniel Pearl.

I question such with the "Crusades" of the Middle Ages. There were horrific things done then, and all of this, from the very moment that Cain killed Able mankind has suffered such atrocities in ever escalating numbers. The NAZI's, Cambodia, Serbian genocide murderers, the atrocities in Rawanda, Iraq and other places and many other times and places throughout the history of this world.

It shocks and boggles my mind, the history of mankind, and now this.

We are at war, there is no doubt about it, and it seems to me that it is a war of cultures, of religions. And that is sad as it was my thought that we as a species have put that behind us. Buried it in our history.

But such is not so.

And where will it end is the question ?

We can, and should look to new horizons, new frontiers, expanding the human condition to realms beyond the confines that we are now finding ourselves in.

But it seems that we as a species have turned on ourselves. And we are in the process of destroying what we have achieved.

Yes, I have unbrage, rage about this one act, the brutal slaughter of one human being-- My previous expressions of relatiation come from that-- But the issue is much broader. With war, the killing of thousands-- to what end?

On a personal level, I should step back after venting and consider the ramifications of such rage, or umbrage.

All the while I know now that not only do I need help, but that humanity needs help.

We all do.

[Oshada Wijesinghe]

Those bloody iraqi's are barbaric!
Americans are tourchering iraqi's but nothing as grousome as beheading.
those iraqis suck crap!

[Don]

"The five fat, white-skinned, alleged al-Qaeda men don't cut it."

The Arabs and Muslims I know can easily pass as Western Europeans. Certainly, in terms of skin color, and some are fat, too.

[Rod Samali]

oshada is right.
i mean...jeez, iraqi's are being torchered and abused but cutting off someone's head is a different story. far out! the americans haven't been that bad!
i h8 those gay iragis and ever1 else should too!

[wes]

pull out the troups and nuke the whole country!!!

[????]

I agree since they all believe in dyin and dat they'll go to were eva those people think there goin to after death we should do them a favor and kill the bastards!!! I just want the troops to head back here especially my cousin John whos serving duty. Well like i said kill da bastards and move on

[Mary]

All of you who are American and have posted to this forum seem to be missing the main point. Nick Berg's death ,whatever the circumstances was a act of great evil on that we must all agree. But why did Nick Berg meet his death? He met his death because he was in Iraq ,and his reason for being in Iraq was to profit.
That was his one and only reason for being there .Americans can not believe or understand why they are despised by so many (not only muslims) around the globe. The answer to this great question ,if you wish to hear it, is that the World sees Americans as being overbearing, agressive,boorish but above all greedy. They also realise that without their weapons of mass distruction they have no stomach for a fight. They command no repect because they show no respect.

I have experienced terrorism close up having lived with it for 25 years . Much if not all of this terrorism was financed by ordinary American citizens contributing their dollars in collection tins to "the cause" during a Saturday night out.
Time and again we appealed to Irish Americans to stop this flow of dollars which was making actions just every bit as horrific as Nick Berg's terrible slaying possible but did they hear , No.

I say to you who are American ,before you start to look for answers in Iraq as to why all this is happening look first at yourselves. Look at your attitudes and your behaviour and above all SHOW RESPECT.

Mary

[????/]

Time has come to act and free iraqi's.fuck bush and behead him now

[Umbrage]

I stomached again to watch that Nick Berg video in its entirety.

I heard seven loud sustained screams from him over 20 of the 30 seconds that it took the bastards to saw off his head.

These are Moslem killers are animals, worse than pigs. Sub-humans not even worthy of being included in the human race, and all the more worthy to be removed.

What should be done is to locate them, then spray then with pig fat then blast them to oblivion.

Pig fat you say ?... The British knew about that as a weapon starting back in the Crimean War when the Turks declared to Moslem troops serving in the British Army that the bullets that they were biting were covered in pig fat.

Knowing that one could not make Moslem heaven after being defiled by anything from a pig they hence refused to fight.

Then later, in WW II, in India, the Japanese promised that Moslems separatists would get support if they disrupted British transport trains. Moslems were blowing themselves up on the tracks causing a great deal of disruption to weapon and troops transports.

So, the Birtish lubed their bullets with pig fat and sprayed the same along the rails... that stopped it real fast.

No heaven with 72 virgins after getting soiled with pig fat.

No suicide bombers along the tracks either.

Use their religion against them...

Make war hell and send them to it, and those that survive soiled will hate war all the more when it is done.

[NoNe]

bahahah! who cares?- GET OVER IT!

[Finn McCool]

Mary,

Personally I would agree with you. I think the US should stop getting involved int he business of other countries.

However, if we did have that attitude, then right now the republic of ireland would be a terrirtory of the greater German Reich.

Not only that, the British shuold have realized that sending off millions of Irish from their home by governmental fiddling with the crops int he mid 1800s, plus outlawing catholicism and irish education would have an effect. if they didn't want those poor sods to prosper and send money back home, why didn't they just kill them all?

So, it's all very well to say AMERICANS are sending moeny to blow up folks in your towns, but actually it IRISH who are sending money, Irish who were denied elected representation in their homeland's affairs, and who are doing the only thing available to themselves to change their homeland. Do you truel think an American who was born in Colorado cares what happens in Down? No, but a paddy who came here in 1900 penniless but who made a ton of cash working like a slave for 50 years is certainly sending thousands "back home" to fight what he thinks in the good fight.

[observer of observer]

As I've read through this page of responses, I can't help but to feel embarassed for all that partake in the even of name calling. To the observer - white trash and yankee don't go together.

Furthermore, I feel as Americans we should pull our heads out of our asses as realize that with war, blood will be shed. Perhaps this war is wrong, but I refuse to deny that, at the least, it is an attempt to resolve a disrupted society in this world... a world in which we are part of.

To say just one person/party is responsible, in my opinion, for the recent violent acts is ludicrous. However, the fact is - finding the responsible party was, and is proving to be, a demanding and challenging course. Like war, in this process, blood will be shed.

Back to the name calling: not all Americans are stupid. Some may be irrational, but not stupid. The reality is the United States of America is a powerful country. I do agree that we have and will continue to demonstrate great restraint on our foes. We should also remember, our motions are mere reactions to our wrong-doers. For the most part,

Regardless, with this power comes authority. In this case we are in a role of the "world police." The path to peace in this world isn't always paved and smooth. We all need to realize that there will be small losses to achieve a bigger victory. Nonetheless, the job will be finished... I couldn't imagine otherwise.

Our government is, and will be again, elected by people of the United States. To say they are ignorant is to call the majority of Americans - ignorant. The underlying truth is that these paeople are (although maybe not the extreme end of) the conservatives (Republicans). In my opinion, the difference we see is that they attempt to fix the problem, not ignore it. Therefore, put Kerry in office and 4 years from now (when the next Republican is in office), we'll be facing the problems of reality in this country and world.

[DragonMaster]

Does anyone know where I can see the actual footage of Nick Berg being beheaded? I have done several web searches trying to find the Nick Berg execution video but all I get are websites for media organizations in the Western world, all of which refuse to show this video. These Western media websites contain articles that say a "radical Islamic website" is showing the Nick Berg execution video but they don't actually give the web address so we could see it for ourselves. The few radical Islamic websites I did find didn't have the video either. All I saw on these websites was anti-Israel propaganda. Does anyone know where I can find the Nick Berg video? I am not trying to see this photo because I derive some kind of enjoyment from seeing people get killed. The reason that I want to see it is because I think it is only fair that Americans get to see the video of one of our unarmed, innocent civilians being killed by a group of radical Islamic cockroaches since for the last couple weeks all we have heard about is how inhumane, barbaric, etc. our troops are. Well, guess what, Western media ? The people we are fighting are ten times more ruthless, sadistic, and bloodthirsty than we are. We should be allowed to see the Nick Berg execution video so that our citzens will be fully aware of this fact.

[Muslimeen]

hahaah
who cares THERE IS MORE COMING ANYWAY
OH YEAHH.....

ENJOY THE VIDEO

GO TO http://www.amreicansaregay.com

[EMan]

Muslimeen I really hope you dont mean that because by the looks of your name...... you and your country is going to be next.....you think this beheading is funny? Makes me wonder what the USA will do to whatever country you're from.....and trust me..... it will be far worse than what the video shows.....

[andrew]

No Burberry cap for Xmas this year.

[andrew]

No Burberry cap for Xmas this year.

[andrew]

No Burberry cap for Xmas this year.

[andrew]

No Burberry cap for Xmas this year.

[robert]

This "beheading" is fake..

Video can be seen at:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/video/berg.WMV

No blood spraying, no blood dripping from head after having been cut op and held up in the air.
Somebody is playing games with us.

The above were my own observations.

Below thoughts of other people with a theory.
------------------------------------------
Another Fraud Perpetrated by the CIA-MOSSAD Dirty Deeds Tandem?

Perhaps the most important rule to observe if one is interested in becoming an amateur muckraker is embodied in the ancient Latin question, "Cui bono?" Who benefits? It often is the first question one should ask. Immediately after 9/11, the key question was, "Who benefits from this event?" I believe that question has now been answered and more.

The very moment I heard about the theatrical execution of Nick Berg, a beheading allegedly done on film and accompanied by a dying scream, I grew suspicious. I didn't see the film, but I saw the still photos. As the following attached posts indicate, the alleged insurgents were fat. If they were Feyadeen, they had to be the fattest Feyadeen in all Iraq. They were the first guerrillas to go underground, where they've been living on the run every since the invasion. The guys in the film also have pasty white hands. How many Feyadeen Iraqi guerrillas have pasty white hands?

The Jordanian arch-villain Zaraqawi was supposedly in the group, but my understanding is that he was killed several months ago. Furthermore, he had an artificial leg that was never fitted properly, and he could neither walk nor stand normally with his crude false leg. Nobody in the film evidenced any such difficulty as they walked or stood.

The person reading a statement in the film seemed to speak a form of Arabic that has not been identified. In fact, it's possible he was not a native speaker of Arabic. No Arabic that was spoken on the film had a Jordanian accent.

The beheading was obviously faked. The lack of spurting blood indicated without a doubt that it was a fake beheading. The scream in the film has been described as that of a woman. People do not scream when being decapitated. None who has ever visited the guillotine has uttered a sound as his or her head rolled.

Berg was in an orange jumpsuit of the kind! typical ly issued to people held in custody by the US military. The last known custody of Berg was that of the US military. It appears he was released in his prison jumpsuit somewhere in Baghdad, where he then found himself immediately in custody of unknown people.

The strongest suspicion in the muckraking community at this point in time is that the US turned Berg over to the MOSSAD, who then immediately killed him, and later removed his head. To make the film, the head was later somehow stuck back on the torso and subsequently toppled during a staged beheading. A scream was dubbed in. Some say it was the scream of a woman. Or did the deceased go soprano in his last living moments?

None of the insurgent groups, be they Feyadeen or simple insurgents would have committed the alleged beheading. It clearly would have gone against their interests and would be a tremendous coup for the Bush junta. The insurgency was gleefully riding on a huge propaganda bonanza with the release of the US prison photos showing torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners. The insurgents would never dream of giving Bush such a gift as a film of them committing a barbaric atrocity that says, "See, we're far more barbaric and cruel than the Americans."

Along with the cui bono, one has to be able to make some sense out of an alleged event. The five fat, white-skinned, alleged al-Qaeda men don't cut it. Aside from the fact there is no al-Qaeda, other than a possible front group created by the CIA and MOSSAD, the whole tale of Nick Berg's execution smells to high heaven. Thus far, I don't believe a word of the promulgated story. It's hard enough to believe our government when the press releases make sense. When they make no sense whatsoever, I have to balk.

If, as I suspect, the alleged al-Qaeda has always been a fictional front group created by the CIA and MOSSAD, and if the CIA and MOSSAD say al- Qaeda did the dirty deed, they are confessing t! o the cr ime. I suppose they find that irony highly amusing.

[observer]

You mindless american losers. You love to create hatred and war in the world. You love to invade countries and kill innocent people. It didn't work in Vietnam did it? They Napalmed your white-trash asses back to trailerville =) Hey, why don't you start with North Korea? That move would definately start WWIII! Get a life you stupid Jerry Springer white trash assholes, because that is how the world sees you. Scum dirty trailer trash. Your Government is corrupt and should be charged with war crimes. Your kids love to kill each other by killing other kids at school. You have immense racial hatred amongst your own people. You are all scum shit.

[observer]

"The jews and americans have created this. Looks like there foreign policies are starting to catch up with them. I say its about time

Posted by australian at May 13, 2004 12:53 AM "

You, sir are an idiot.

If you in "down under" think that this does not affect you and that the "jews and Amercans are to blame"... You need to do your homework. Look at what these stone heads learn in their Islamic fundamentalist seminaries.

These groups from youth have been taught to hate western civilizatoin and that includes you blokes down under.

If you do not accept their doctrines they saw your head off for being an infidel.

It is that simple.

G'day..

Posted by: Umbrage on May 13, 2004 01:48 AM

You silly white trash yankee. What reason would the Iraqi people to behead you loser Americans? You are invaders in their country and they are simply retaliating by killing back. It is not the method of kill but revenge for killing their people and using your white trash methods to dehuminise them. Quite simply you mindless shit, an eye for an eye...

[Princess Leia]

Umbrage you wanker narrow-minded shit, since when did the Iraqi's instigate September 9/11?? You American's once again proove that you have no idea. It's quite amusing to the rest of the world how dumb you Americans really are, but you all think you are superior to everyone else!

I bet you're favourite saying is "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!!!!" and you shout it to the TV every day when you are eating your fat-burgers in your trailer park and getting fatter and fatter by the day and picking up your welfare check and getting more fat-burgers. Am I right?

You loser yankee hero-wanabe. Get a freekin' reality check man!!!

[thomas]

it angers me that another innocent has paid the price when it should be the bloody politicians getting beheaded. i know that's harsh but I would much rather see those who actually took the decision to go to war against Iraq pay the ultimate price. I would regard it as justice if Blair or Bush or any MP's who voted for this war assininated. Sixteen thousands innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed sinse the war started including hundreds of children' I want Bush and Blair to pay for that' it is criminal that they do not have't to answer for those deaths. In my opnion this is why we in the west are so reviled throughout the muslim world and who can blame them. Kill the politicians not the innocent American soldiers or the thousands of Iraqi's.

[eye]

Now, where's the movie!?? Give me a working link. I'd like to see that eye-for-an-eye-shit. :=0

[Anonymous]

In response to:
"Does anyone know where I can see the actual footage of Nick Berg being beheaded? I have done several web searches trying to find the Nick Berg execution video but all I get are websites for media organizations in the Western world, all of which refuse to show this video. These Western media websites contain articles that say a "radical Islamic website" is showing the Nick Berg execution video but they don't actually give the web address so we could see it for ourselves. The few radical Islamic websites I did find didn't have the video either. All I saw on these websites was anti-Israel propaganda. Does anyone know where I can find the Nick Berg video? I am not trying to see this photo because I derive some kind of enjoyment from seeing people get killed. The reason that I want to see it is because I think it is only fair that Americans get to see the video of one of our unarmed, innocent civilians being killed by a group of radical Islamic cockroaches since for the last couple weeks all we have heard about is how inhumane, barbaric, etc. our troops are. Well, guess what, Western media ? The people we are fighting are ten times more ruthless, sadistic, and bloodthirsty than we are. We should be allowed to see the Nick Berg execution video so that our citzens will be fully aware of this fact.

Posted by: DragonMaster on May 13, 2004 04:06 PM"

The website that was used to post the video is http://www.al-ansar.biz, based in Malaysia. It has since been shut down by the web host due to both high traffic and because they were unaware of its content.

If you are desperate to see the video, it can be downloaded at http://www.ogrish.com

???? ??????? ????????

[MDE]

New Place to view the whole video!
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/may2004/051104beheadsuscivilian.htm

[sarah]

they shown the video on a channel we have here, i didnt watch it i was a wuss, but just seeing them dressed like that and him sitting there. it just got to me and i dont think i could handle the rest. it was al arabiya. and i cant get the scream he made out of my head. im not arab but im not american either. all i can do is pray that his family if God forbid they had to watch it how it was, that they can find the courage and strength to deal with their loss. i mean i dont even know him personally and it got to me. so if i knew him....

[Umbrage]

Here it is. I had to do quite a bit of research to "re-find it" as our whimpy media is loath to present it to us. It is crude, and the sound is out of sync with the image. These sub-human murderers must have used a web cam without sound but taped the sound track with a recorder and then attempted to paste them together before broadcasting the video. But even without the poor video feed, the sound recording of it is horrific enough.

The video in its entirety.

http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/nickberg.wmv

The site that I had found it on last night was shut down.

Use it or lose it. DOWNLOAD IT AS I DID LAST NIGHT !

The Web Police will be sure to shut this site down, too.

[josh]

ill upload the video when i get home....

[Umbrage]

You must download this then view it from your hard drive. You can, however see it on line, but it is much more choppy than the one that I downloaded last night.

http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/nickberg.wmv

It is shocking, horrifically shocking.

And it makes me very angry, the monsters, the sub-human animals that did this.

It is what they would like to do to us all who do not believe in their fundamentalist Islamic beliefs.

[Umbrage]

The video was found at:

http://binarycircumstance.typepad.com/bc_blog/

Find the video link in the messages, LEFT click on it then scroll down the dialog box to "Save Target As" clik and save this file to your hard drive.

It is simply too choppy to view on line.

[Fake]

Can any one please let me know the URL from where i can find the Video of beheading US citizen

[Hasan Zuberi]

Its part of the WAR ... why cry when the other side strike back ... killing of THOUSAND civilians in carpet bombing is an "An act of War" .. and behading of an American is terrorism .... U americans need to change ur dual standards ... ocz its just the begining and .. the main part is yet to come.

[ssamjenk]

and they wonder why we are over there THIS IS WHY THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN DOGS!

[ssamjenk]

and they wonder why we are over there THIS IS WHY THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN DOGS!

[umbrage]

Robert, what you posted below shows to all how much of on idiot you are.

Talk to the family of Nick Berg...

Ask them if the body that they have is or is not their son.

You are not only an idiot you are down wright stupid.

And as for all of you who think that we "Americans" havce no resolve... You had better think twice before you open your mouths.

Look how WW II ended...

It started for us with a surprise attack and ended with an atomic bomb.

If that is where we are headed... Fine... That is the way it will be.

These Islamic fundamentalist bastards need to be dealt with.

And we will deal with them.

Another Fraud Perpetrated by the CIA-MOSSAD Dirty Deeds Tandem?

Perhaps the most important rule to observe if one is interested in becoming an amateur muckraker is embodied in the ancient Latin question, "Cui bono?" Who benefits? It often is the first question one should ask. Immediately after 9/11, the key question was, "Who benefits from this event?" I believe that question has now been answered and more.

The very moment I heard about the theatrical execution of Nick Berg, a beheading allegedly done on film and accompanied by a dying scream, I grew suspicious. I didn't see the film, but I saw the still photos. As the following attached posts indicate, the alleged insurgents were fat. If they were Feyadeen, they had to be the fattest Feyadeen in all Iraq. They were the first guerrillas to go underground, where they've been living on the run every since the invasion. The guys in the film also have pasty white hands. How many Feyadeen Iraqi guerrillas have pasty white hands?

The Jordanian arch-villain Zaraqawi was supposedly in the group, but my understanding is that he was killed several months ago. Furthermore, he had an artificial leg that was never fitted properly, and he could neither walk nor stand normally with his crude false leg. Nobody in the film evidenced any such difficulty as they walked or stood.

The person reading a statement in the film seemed to speak a form of Arabic that has not been identified. In fact, it's possible he was not a native speaker of Arabic. No Arabic that was spoken on the film had a Jordanian accent.

The beheading was obviously faked. The lack of spurting blood indicated without a doubt that it was a fake beheading. The scream in the film has been described as that of a woman. People do not scream when being decapitated. None who has ever visited the guillotine has uttered a sound as his or her head rolled.

Berg was in an orange jumpsuit of the kind! typical ly issued to people held in custody by the US military. The last known custody of Berg was that of the US military. It appears he was released in his prison jumpsuit somewhere in Baghdad, where he then found himself immediately in custody of unknown people.

The strongest suspicion in the muckraking community at this point in time is that the US turned Berg over to the MOSSAD, who then immediately killed him, and later removed his head. To make the film, the head was later somehow stuck back on the torso and subsequently toppled during a staged beheading. A scream was dubbed in. Some say it was the scream of a woman. Or did the deceased go soprano in his last living moments?

None of the insurgent groups, be they Feyadeen or simple insurgents would have committed the alleged beheading. It clearly would have gone against their interests and would be a tremendous coup for the Bush junta. The insurgency was gleefully riding on a huge propaganda bonanza with the release of the US prison photos showing torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners. The insurgents would never dream of giving Bush such a gift as a film of them committing a barbaric atrocity that says, "See, we're far more barbaric and cruel than the Americans."

Along with the cui bono, one has to be able to make some sense out of an alleged event. The five fat, white-skinned, alleged al-Qaeda men don't cut it. Aside from the fact there is no al-Qaeda, other than a possible front group created by the CIA and MOSSAD, the whole tale of Nick Berg's execution smells to high heaven. Thus far, I don't believe a word of the promulgated story. It's hard enough to believe our government when the press releases make sense. When they make no sense whatsoever, I have to balk.

If, as I suspect, the alleged al-Qaeda has always been a fictional front group created by the CIA and MOSSAD, and if the CIA and MOSSAD say al- Qaeda did the dirty deed, they are confessing t! o the cr ime. I suppose they find that irony highly amusing.

Posted by: robert on May 13, 2004 06:15 AM
You mindless american losers. You love to create hatred and war in the world. You love to invade countries and kill innocent people. It didn't work in Vietnam did it? They Napalmed your white-trash asses back to trailerville =) Hey, why don't you start with North Korea? That move would definately start WWIII! Get a life you stupid Jerry Springer white trash assholes, because that is how the world sees you. Scum dirty trailer trash. Your Government is corrupt and should be charged with war crimes. Your kids love to kill each other by killing other kids at school. You have immense racial hatred amongst your own people. You are all scum shit.

Posted by: observer on May 13, 2004 06:58 AM

[umbrage]

It was Al-Qaeda that sawed off Nick Berg's head. It was Al-Qaeda that did 911 to us. And it is Iraq and Iran along with Syria that is under the board supporting Al-Qaeda. And they are residing and protected in those nations. After 911 there was an interesting article in one of the major news magazines where these terrorists with their own agenda's can wage war for nations by being their mercenaries, all the while the nation that sponsors them looks the other way seeming to be out of the picture.

That is what Bush was talking about when he said:

"You are either with us or with the terrorists..."

And I am FIRMLY behind what he has said and now.

And I don't care one way or another who is President after this next election. I think that this war is going to get much worse.

There can be no surrender, there will be victory one way or another.

God help us if these Islamic bastards get what they want.

And you who think that you are free and safe, might just very well see a "Taliban" in your neighborhood. Who will be the "wanker narro-minded shit" then ?

Umbrage you wanker narrow-minded shit, since when did the Iraqi's instigate September 9/11?? You American's once again proove that you have no idea. It's quite amusing to the rest of the world how dumb you Americans really are, but you all think you are superior to everyone else!

I bet you're favourite saying is "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!!!!" and you shout it to the TV every day when you are eating your fat-burgers in your trailer park and getting fatter and fatter by the day and picking up your welfare check and getting more fat-burgers. Am I right?

You loser yankee hero-wanabe. Get a freekin' reality check man!!!

Posted by: Princess Leia on May 13, 2004 07:28 AM

[Arjun]

From the beheading of the nick berg death I am coming to know that, in the future the people are going to change so cruel as they were in the starting of the human life!!
I don't know why the people are doing this? If they do this will the fight between these US and Iraq will come to an end? The people are doing this kindless jobs for what? Are they doing this for money / patriotism / self-proclaimation / publicity or for what??
Whatever there may be, will Michael Berg get back his son nick berg? No-never!!!!
We have to wait and see that will this all end or not?..................

[Umbrage]

Its part of the WAR ... why cry when the other side strike back ... killing of THOUSAND civilians in carpet bombing is an "An act of War" .. and behading of an American is terrorism .... U americans need to change ur dual standards ... ocz its just the begining and .. the main part is yet to come.

Posted by: Hasan Zuberi on May 13, 2004 09:48 AM
----
And that you will certainly get, "Mr. Hasan Zuberi"

You wished it on us and you will reap the winds that you have spawned.

We are acting with great restraint. We could wipe out Iraq or any other rogue nation that supports terrorists with in one stroke, in one day if we were imposed upon to do so.

Oblige us and see what you get.

You might not like what you will see.

[Umbrage]

Robert wrote:

"The beheading was obviously faked. The lack of spurting blood indicated without a doubt that it was a fake beheading. The scream in the film has been described as that of a woman. People do not scream when being decapitated. None who has ever visited the guillotine has uttered a sound as his or her head rolled.

Berg was in an orange jumpsuit of the kind! typical ly issued to people held in custody by the US military. The last known custody of Berg was that of the US military. It appears he was released in his prison jumpsuit somewhere in Baghdad, where he then found himself immediately in custody of unknown people.

The strongest suspicion in the muckraking community at this point in time is that the US turned Berg over to the MOSSAD, who then immediately killed him, and later removed his head. To make the film, the head was later somehow stuck back on the torso and subsequently toppled during a staged beheading. A scream was dubbed in. Some say it was the scream of a woman. Or did the deceased go soprano in his last living moments?"

That was no "staged beheading" idiot Robert. You need to have lived on a farm and watched some throat sliting. If it is fast there is no sounds or screams heard-- because the windpipe is cut in one stroke. If not, you will hear screams. And I saw a program recently on the History Channel that dealt with methods of execution. And death by guillotine is not as swift as it may seem... The head lives for 15 to 20 seconds afterwards.

And the head does not bleed either, it is the body that continues to pump blood. And if you look closely at that video, from the neck you can see blood moving out onto that blanket that Nick Berg was laying on.

Nick Berg's neck was sawed from the left side... slowly, and until the corotids and windpipe cut the voice will go soprano in a blood curdling scream. He and he screamed till his windpipe was cut, and afterwards you can hear gurgling.

I have watched that thing 3 times and listened to the sound track without watching the video.

This is an act of barbarity, perpetrated by heartless beings with no regards for human life.

This is just one example of what we are fighting.

[Ghazanfarullah]

Mr "Umbrage" I think u need some medical checkup n u must take some bedrest immidiatly,other wise any muslim will repair ur brain ,i visit this page unexpectedly n i saw all of ur messages,u r contenously talking nonsense i guess u need 2 repair ur brain immidiatly,
Ghazanfarullah

[Jace]

Honestly, most people get what they deserve in life.
Nick knew there was a risk in even going to Iraq. He took the risk and died.

Furthermore, why was the FBI even questioning him? After all, he had been caputred by Iraqi Police before and then handed over to the FBI, was he not? Sounds fishy.

[Jace]

Honestly, most people get what they deserve in life.
Nick knew there was a risk in even going to Iraq. He took the risk and died.

Furthermore, why was the FBI even questioning him? After all, he had been caputred by Iraqi Police before and then handed over to the FBI, was he not? Sounds fishy.

[tiredoftheworldsuffering]

Me and my fellow classmates were curious, we dont believe what the government nor Bush in what they are doing.... However, me and friends did an internet search and came across the FULL-LENGTH video.....we watched it, and now I am proud that I have a life, a home, a family to have when I come home from school, and a freedom here in the U.S. - I felt sick, we all did - I felt like I wanted to puke and passout - I'm 18 yrs old....not old enough to understand what hell is like but old enough to say "Get the Hell out of there!" - Iraq was chosen to be invaded mainly to take over the Oil that the U.S. so despertaly needs and now I'm hoping the Americans vote for a dumb azz like Bush as President again....I have realized that not everything needs to be shown entirely to the public, but I really hate when the government sits and tells us that everythings ok and not to worry when our own citizens are being killed like that - what is worse is that his head was cut off SLOWLY - I am lucky and I believe that more people SHOULD see it, then maybe the idiots who talk a bunch a crap would realize whats happening!! -

Thanks a bunch....I care for our country...I am the future

[tiredoftheworldsuffering]

Me and my fellow classmates were curious, we dont believe what the government nor Bush in what they are doing.... However, me and friends did an internet search and came across the FULL-LENGTH video.....we watched it, and now I am proud that I have a life, a home, a family to have when I come home from school, and a freedom here in the U.S. - I felt sick, we all did - I felt like I wanted to puke and passout - I'm 18 yrs old....not old enough to understand what hell is like but old enough to say "Get the Hell out of there!" - Iraq was chosen to be invaded mainly to take over the Oil that the U.S. so despertaly needs and now I'm hoping the Americans vote for a dumb azz like Bush as President again....I have realized that not everything needs to be shown entirely to the public, but I really hate when the government sits and tells us that everythings ok and not to worry when our own citizens are being killed like that - what is worse is that his head was cut off SLOWLY - I am lucky and I believe that more people SHOULD see it, then maybe the idiots who talk a bunch a crap would realize whats happening!! -

Thanks a bunch....I care for our country...I am the future

[tiredoftheworldsuffering]

CORRECTION on my post: I stated that "I'm hoping the Americans vote for a dumb azz like Bush as President again"

PLEASE make that changed to that I HATE Bush and that I DON'T want a president like him to be voted EVER AGAIN!!

[australian]

The jews and americans have created this. Looks like there foreign policies are starting to catch up with them. I say its about time

[Alex]

war is war you cant do anything about it some times and theses things are gonna happen

[Hasan Zuberi]

The video is very much fake ... I wonder why the cameraman who was covering the show very professionally suddenly got bizzark and blurred the image at the right moment ...

Also for all u American suckers ... this is not the way we muslims do the slaughter the KAFFIRS (non-believers in one God)

And as for my friend "Umbrage" ... we are not the one who are afraid of death, its you the non-believers ... and lets see how long u suckers can survive 😉

It is the begining of "The End". And we muslims are ready for the judgement day ... what about u ? 😉

[ucme]

If this doesn't change what is happening over there, what will it take? It's time to quit fulling around and take some action. Nude pics maybe be embarrassing but harmless, beheading someone is so freaken permanent. Alls this did was show the how really crazy the Iraq's are. I'm also wanted to send my prayers and thoughts to the Berg family. He didn't deserve this regardless of why he was over there.

[ucme]

I don't know if this is still active but here is the link that I was able to view it from. Has anyone found the translation of what they hell them Iraq's were saying.

[ucme]

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/decapitation_video.htm

[kim]

You can't tell me you belive this bullshit. Clear your liberal minds and take a real close look at the video. PROPAGANDA my friends. As for all of you USA bashing retards...stop taking your holidays here and milking our economy with your green card applications and taking money to start your gas stations in our country. I am born bread and raised here. A real American! I know what it is to be patriotic. Not to my government but to what America is truley built on. My ancestors came here and helped to build this country. Enough already, close the borders and you can all stay in your caves and stay defacating in your streets.

[Umbrage]

Mabye Mr. "Zuberi" or "Ghazanfarullah" both of which seem to be supporters of Al-Qaeda and their cohorts could provide us a translation.

Let me guess...

"We hate Jews... We hate Zionists... We hate Americans because they support Jews... Also we hate them because they support Israel. We hate Americans because they are the "Great Satan, and they support the Jewish state. We hate Americans because they are infidels..."

The only thing that holds their statement together is "hate"

That is it plain and simple.

But you know what ? ... I know what these fanatics think. I know that they fear defilement before they die. And it is amazing how simple that defilement is in the Islamic religion, and the fear of it.

I have seen it in history where Islamic extremeists refused to fight if they were defiled with anything that would prevent them from going to their Islamic heaven where they would have 72 virgins to do what they please with...

And I remember once, when in college I had met an a Islamic exchange student, a friend of my best friend . We went out to see some sights and on the way, my other friend stopped to get some food.

Hot dogs.

This fundamentalist Islamic student was eating the hot dog definitely enjoying it. He had never has such a tasty thing. And he said, "This is good." He then asked "what kind of meat is this?"

My other friend then said, "Oh, it is really a combination of meats, beef, pork, sometimes turkey... just depends."

I watched this Islamic guy blanch... I actually saw the color drain from his face.

He said "Please stop... I must get out."

We wondered what was wrong as he looked very ill. Having gotten out of the car, he then forced himself to throw up buy putting his finger into his mouth.

We wondered what was wrong... Why he did that. And when we asked he told us bluntly "It is an unclean meat... pork... We must not eat that as we will not go to heaven so defiled."

The rest of what could have been a very nice trip was a bust, and we felt badly for this person who had the look of one on the edge of death fearing that he would die before he could be "cleansed" of having eaten "pork"... even though there was no certainty that pork was in the hot dog that he had eaten...

So... Pork, or bacon fat is perfect "terrorist repellent."

And there is a precident for its use in history..

Laugh though you may, the British found out about it in 1855 during the Crimean War, when their Islamic troops refused to fight just on the suspicion that the bullets that they were biting might have been lubed with pig lard. And rembering that during WW II the British applied it in Northern India when Islamic extreamists were blowing up trains and themselves to gain a separate Islamic state promised by Japan and also their Islamic heaven with their promised 72 virgins if they died in the attempts.

Well, the British announced that they would lube their the train guard's bullets with pig lard and spray the train tracks with the same.

That put an end to the problem of trains being blown up.

I think I will send to a friend of mine that is there in Afganistan some bacon fat with the instructions that he lube his bullets with the same.

That is from me to those Islamic Al-Qaeda extremists, delivered by a trooper friend.

Everyone that knows someone over there should have some bacon this weekend, keep the grease and send it to their trooper friends serving over there.

Make these Al Qaeda fanatics think twice before they shoot at our troops lest the bullets that come their way be defiled with something that could keep them from their heaven.

[Umbrage]

What's the matter Mr. "Hasan Zuberi" you and your cohorts ashamed of your dirty work ?

Or are you guys so stupid that you cannot even take let alone transmit a clear video?

Or maybe it is because you are under pressure from our armed forces, and are hiding ?

All of this aside.

Nick Berg's body sent to his parents and family speaks of the veracity of the atrocious video that you people presented to the world.

Since you see to be an "Arab" perhaps you can provide to this group a "translation" that the murderers gave before they hacked off this poor man's head.

Let me guess. "We hate Jews"-- We hate Israel We hate America-- We hate the coalition forces-- We hate infidels-- We hate Christians-- " on and on and on.

It is you people that are sick.

You want Armageddon-- Try for it-- Go for it--

AND YOU WILL GET IT.

Push our nation too far and it will be the END FOR YOU AND YOUR ILK.

For now we act with great restraint, and that is a hint for your people to do the same.

[Umbrage]

Mr Zuberi wrote :

"The video is very much fake ... I wonder why the cameraman who was covering the show very professionally suddenly got bizzark and blurred the image at the right moment ..."

Thought about this and my conclusion is that these sub-humans were using a web cam, probably an integral one on a notebook computer. These are very compact, but also very difficult to focus. They are designed for stationary views, not for movement. The images was not recorded but transmitted to another location.

Like the Daniel Pearl beheading video, which was also of poor quality.

But all of this does not matter.

The bodies sent to their famlies speak of the atrocity even more than the actual poor quality video of their murders provided by these sub-human barbarians.

[Jimbo]

Level the place and re-populate it with humans.

[M. Simon]

Rick Barton,

What about the mass murder that will follow our premature exit?

Who should be held accountable for that?

You?

Guys like you got what you wanted in Vietnam and I now have 2 million dead on my concience for supporting your solution to the Vietnam War.

Never again.

[M. Simon]

Umbrage,

It is the alpha male problem. Writ large.

In civilized countries the tests of power are done by votes. Among the less civilized it is done by armed might.

The countries that solve the alpha male problem by vote tend to do better economically because security is available at lower cost. Over time the advantage will be huge. i.e. islam vs the West.

[ganxta]

people die everyday.
you might die tomarrow.
you never know.

[Umbrage]

Here is how we must deal with those sub-humans that killed Nick Berg, a Jew who's only wish was to do good for the Iraqi people. Here is how we must deal with all of those Al Qaeda sub-human war criminals, and their supporters.

Westerners have a long history of having to deal with such.

We give war criminals, and those who commit crimes against humanity, an open and fair trial, a sentence, then what they deserve.

Over four thousand met their fate shown here:

http://www.geocities.com/epjacobs4/biskupiae.htm

History will speak the same of Al Qaeda and all those that support them.

[May]

Hello. I've been surfing the net trying to find the actual footage of the beheading. It's tragic what the extremist Muslims did to Nick. Hope his soul rests in peace, but I'm a Muslim too and I would just like to let you all know that these are not actual Muslims. Those who did this horrible, brutal act are just Muslims by name, but they don?t practice the religion. Islam is not about killing other people or even hurting them. As its said in the Koran "To me my religion and to them theirs". If they were true Muslims, they wouldn?t do anything like that. They're just extremists the same way there are extremists in Christianity like the kkk and Judaism= orthodox. I bet all of you think that ALL Muslims are like that, but you're wrong. These are the minority that are ruining the name of Islam and that are interpreting the teachings of the Prophet PBUH inaccurately. I am terribly sorry about what happened, but you all have to know that these are no Muslims and coming from a Muslim I would tell you that this is no what we learnt. Also for that guy who said something about a Muslim throwing up the hot dog he ate, well just to let you know in the 7th day advents church= Christian. They don?t eat pork as well or drink alcohol. What does that mean? You don?t know much about your Christianity yet you can come and criticize mine? Doesn?t work that way brother. First learn what there is to learn about your religion, then come and talk about mine. Also, what?s even better is you not saying anything about it if you DON?T hear it from a true Muslim because what the rest are saying is simply bullshit

[stilla7thgrader]

as horrible as it may sound these people do not think and act the way we do. they only understand the reality of torture and death and we don't...why do we keep trying to impose our values and way of life on the world...the majority of it does not think and do like we do...level this place and get us the hell out

[russ]

as horrible as it may sound these people do not think and act the way we do. they only understand the reality of torture and death and we don't...why do we keep trying to impose our values and way of life on the world...the majority of it does not think and do like we do...level this place and get us the hell out

[Umbrage]

May,

You make execellent points in the above.

There are extreamists in both religions. They are called FUNDAMENTALISTS. The U.S. has many fundamentalist Christian groups that have radical ideas that are not the norm. I am quite aware of it.

And I am also very much aware of the islamic fundamentalists, who blow themselves up, and kill innocents. Killers motivated by their misguided teachings so much so that they would kill themselves and any others in their way so that they can have 72 virgins in heaven with special blessings from Allah. These are the teachings that they recieve in their Madrasses (seminaries)

See: http://southasia.oneworld.net/article/view/73066/1

They do not represent the majority in your faith any more than the KKK, or Christian Identity, or Christian Snake Handlers do in my faith.

(I'm a Lutheran)

Till recently I have admired the beauty of Islam. Its very pure and non-obective art. Its enchanginly fine music, the du and Egyptian dancing. The vocal music. The enchanting stories. And lets not forget the wonderful mathematics that most simply take for granted. Arabic numbers, the "0" and such. (It would be hell if we did our math in Roman numerals, anyone ever try that?) And without the Arabic numerals theoretical mathematics would not be possible. So there is a great Islamic cultural heratiage that civilization, east and west can appreciate.

But there must be a separation here between the good that is in your faith and that which is a threat to it and civilization in general.

The inhuman fundamentalist Islamic bastard that sawed off Nick Berg's head is one of your faith's radicals... these are the people that ruin your faith in the eyes of westerners.

And I know what they believe, what their fundamentalist ideology leads them, to.

I will never forget that exchange student from the Middle East. He is my age now. I wonder what his ideology has lead him to. I hope not the Islamic fundamentalism of these murdering bastards who blow them selves up, and murder "infidels" Christians, Jews, and all westerners in general.

Bacon fat slathered on our weapons of war...YES... for anyone of your faith with radical fundamentalist ideology spawned in the madrasdes that dare to shoot at us, or blow us up.

No 72 virgins for them.

No heaven.

And may they turn and burn in Hell where they belong along with the KKK members, Christian Identity members, and other radicals of other faiths too.

[callforjustice911]

You, Mr. Hassan Zuberi, are very deceived- Deceived by your the racist teachings that fill your head.

I've read your posts and it is obvious that that you hate Jews.

Daniel Pearl was a reporter with CNN covering the war in Pakistan. He was not on any military mission, a reporter was all that he was.

Nick Berg, he was a free lance worker. A kind soul out to do good in a hostile land. He was the best friend that Iraq could have. An American out on his own in a mission of good will.

Both of these men fell to Islamic subhumans... Persons with no heart or sense of humanity. Entities that look like humans, but act otherwise.

And yes "supporting Al Qaeda" makes you a terrorist. You can say what you want, write what you want, but you affiliation is what speaks as to what you are.

Al Qaeda = terroist = supporters of Al Qaeda = terrorists.

Free speach has nothing to do with it. If you support their aims then you are a terroist.

What part of the english language or logic do you not understand?

Now, was it you that wrote that you look forward to "Armageddon, the end of the world" and that you questioned the resolve of those that resist your uncivilized aims?

Humm... Accoriding to my book, at the end Israel God's chosen people stand and it is you losers that will fall.

In every war you have launched against Israel you have lost. Every time.

Try it again and see what you will lose. (BTW: they have nukes)

In my book there is only one God. "Allah," that thing, that entity that you people praise as you fly planes into buildings, blow up buses packed with innocents, hack off two inocent men's heads is not God. There is only one God and His name is NOT "allah"

My God does hear prayers.

And justice will be served upon those that do these inhuman deeds in His name. There is only one God and He is not on your side.

And with the Trade Center there are nearly 3000 more innocents, that call out for justice.

And believe this- God hears them.

There is a new group at Yahoo

"Call For Justice 911"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/callforjustice911

Join it and be enlightened.

Lastly, I like that "Death on the Gallows" page as it very much expreses what will happen to war criminals when they stand in the docks for the crimes they commit today; haters of Jews and haters of western civilization, that is what al Qaeda, Hamas, PLO and other terrorist organizations are, and their reward will be the same.

[Hasan Zuberi]

If this Jew of urs was so eager to help Iraqis (muslims) he should have stayed back in his country and had fought against his imperialistic government.

Same goes for Daniel Pearl .. why these jews were at our land the first place ... yeah wishing to help us ... 🙂 .. u make me laugh !

And supporting Al-Qaeda will make me a terrorist .. ?? but dont u ppl calim for FREEDOM OF SPEECH ... ?? The initial claim of Al-Qaeda was "All non-muslim "armed-forces" should leave our holy lands" and this is the point from where the war started ... and as yet they have only targetted the military personnal ... Naval ship COLE & Baraks in Saudi Arabia ...

Time will tell my friend ... time will tell ... All we should do is pray to our God (whoever u have faith in) for guidance and truth to be unfold.

May Allah help & guide us all.

---------------------------Posted by: Umbrage on May 15:
Here is how we must deal with those sub-humans that killed Nick Berg, a Jew who's only wish was to do good for the Iraqi people.

[May]

Umbrage,

Thanks for replying. I do agree with you on your last statement. No one accepts anyone accusing or harming their country. That's just the nationalist part of us as human beings. The need and desire to belong. You think, us Muslims are happy about what?s happening? And what I mean by, "US" is the true Muslims, none of these fakers + fundamentalists. We're actually really sorry about what's happening around us. These poor Iraq?s who are dying everyday. The Americans that are far from their home and being sent back in coffins. Its all heart breaking if you ask me, but what really hurts the most is people who treat you badly just after knowing you're a Muslim. What I want to make clear (thought i know you know what you're saying since you explained your point clearly) is that not all Muslims are bad people. The majority are very nice, but its the minority=extremists who are the mislead, crazy ones out there. Anyway, god is great and whatever happens just happens. Lets just try and embrace the fact that we're all human beings and what we should do is treat people the way we want to be treated and THAT GOES FOR YOU HASSAN!! How can you say such a thing? you're a disgrace to Muslims!!

Now, let's move the other person: calls for justice.

Listen, I know how hard this is to you, but you should know that it is for us as well. What happened to the late Mr. Berg is very sad. But, have you not noticed what the American soldiers have been doing to other Iraq?s? explain the rape to me? explain them urinating on an innocent human being? is that fair? If you say so, then you're being unfair and biased as well. I look at it from all aspects. But, with you raising your finger and pointing at my religion and saying that there is "no Allah". Well, that I cannot accept. Sorry. Allah, btw, is the translation of God but in Arabic. So therefore: there is a god! 🙂 and he's watching. These acts that you've been doing as not just sinful, but they're a disgrace to humanity. Since I'm not saying anything about your religion, all I need you to do is respect mine. If you have things you're unsure about you can always ask, but not insult. Can you explain one thing to me. when there was an earthquake in turkey, how come everything felt into pieces except for the mosque? ha? How come a lot of people embraced Islam in America after 911? How come the population of Muslims is growing everyday? Do you think god sleeps? Not in this world, or the next. Plus, you said that my religion does not exist or that my people are falling. Well, let me just verify something..my religon isn't telling you to have faith in it or else we're gonna kill you. Here's a verse from the holy Koran. " Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine." Now read it again without that hesitance and without having this hatred in your heart. Forget everything thats in your mind and just read it. So, all that its saying is for you your religion and for me mine so let me practice mine without saying anything bad about mine. The final thing I wanna say to you is that true Muslims don?t hate Jews or Christians. These people are the people of the book. Above all, true Muslims don?t hate anyone so instead of being a narrow minded person, learn to accept that there are good people out there who are Muslims and this stereotype in your head about Muslims is biased and unfair.

Anyway, I have talked too much. Peace be with everyone. Take care.

May

[May]

Call for justice,

I highly respect your view and would have to say that I do believe that what you're saying is making sense and true. I know these conflicts of religion is hard to bear, but hey I guess even if we don?t believe in the same "god", we can still learn to treat each other as human beings and not as members of a different faith.

America, is a unique country and not only that, but its also can be quite just in regards to taking actions if anything goes wrong in the system. There's this documentary ..hmm I think its called Iraq uncovered, I suppose. Which I would like you to view if you get a hold of it somehow. Quite interesting if you ask me.

Anyway, back to the topic of discussion. I've never had any problems with people from any faith as I look at people the way you do, as humans but it does hurt if you know what I'm saying. I don?t think you've ever been in situation where you're being treated unequally because of your faith. Though my country is never mentioned (I bet no one really knows it) at all as we are independent and not really interested in these political quarrels-we stand clear. But when I'm not home as I am just a student studying abroad I think that it?s unfair. Well, I would just like to thank you for that interesting response. It has enlightened me. Plus, knowing someone somewhere is answering you and speaking freely about his/her ideas is overwhelming. Thanks again call for justice.

May

[Abdule-hater]

We need to find them, disgrace them and then BEHEAD THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

[callforjustice911]

May,

I have no problem with moderates. None at all.

As long as they do EXACTLY what you say, and not impose their beliefs on on others, fine.

But that is not the case with these Ismamic ultra-fundamentalists that kill themselves with the intent that they will achieve their aims on earth and for their heaven or "god."

"allah" is not the name of my God. Sorry.

There is only one God and that is the the one who said "I AM" to Moses.

You as a Muslim will never see eye to eye with me when it comes to religion-- so it is best not to divulge into it. There is no resolution in doing so.

But there is due justice for war criminals. And we are exposing our own in Iraq. It is terrible what those individuals did there. A travesty against not only Muslims but humanity. When I saw those photos of naked men, hoods over their heads, I did not see Muslims. I saw human beings. When a man or woman is stripped of clothes, they look just like we do. Their humanity is exposed, and it reflects on all of humanity when they are abused as these men and women were. And if I had my way, they should not only stand in trial in Iraq, but be tried by the people of Iraq. This suggestion will not endear me to my countrymen for sure, but it would be just.

For lesser crimes committed by our solders in other countries, they were turned over to the local jurisdiction for trial. I think that happened recently in Japan involving one of our troops for his rape of a Japanese national. I think he is spending 8 years in a Japanese prison.

For the crimes committed against prisoners at Abu Gharib prison... war crimes... It is my opinion that those that did this should stand trial by the people of Iraq.

It is only just.

But we have exposed them, and will try and convict them of these crimes. And it should not only involve them, but those that ordered them to do these things.

It is a disgrace to America. It has gravely tarnished our reputation in the eyes of the world and in the Muslim world at large.

But only thing good that comes out of it is that WE HAVE EXPOSED IT. It was not the press, or any other country. It was our military that found out about what was going on there, under the guidence of twisted officers, soldiers, and guards. And there are not any regimes that I can think of that have occupied another country and have brought their own to a courts martial for war crimes.

Name one.

In this we as a nation are unique.

[callforjustice911]

Click on my call name for a quick link to my URL

[callforjustice911]

May,

What is "overwhelming" are the attitudes of Mr. Zuberi, Musimeen, and those radical Islamic supporters here on this list. They do not see that they too are war criminals by association, in a war that THEY have declared-- Not only against the United States, but Israel and Western Civilization in general.

In the recent past, even to the end, as NAZI war criminals were being tried they laughed at their crimes against humanity. They could not see it, even when the regime that supported them in their crimes had fallen. And nearly all of them stood steadfast in their perverted beliefs that led to their criminal acts as they were executed for these crimes.

And now we are facing a force that could be as worse if not more so than the force that drove previous NAZI war criminals to crimes against humanity.

These modern war criminals wish to "Talibanize" the world, where horrendous deeds such as was done to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl and countless others in their own Talliban Afghanistan become the order of the day. Have you seen what the Mullah Omar did in Afghanistan-- in the sports stadium before thousands at "half time" ?

He had women executed with a shot to the head, men hanged from the goal posts, people getting their hands cut off-- That is what Al Qaeda wants for the world. (Thank God we threw the Taliban out of power )

We are at war. A war that these Islamic radicals have declared on us.

And Mr. Zuberi and his ilk want Armageddon, the end of the world.

This is the aim of Al Qaeda, and persons like this. They are enemies not only to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all faiths other than their own, but civilization as a whole.

They must be rooted out, and judged for the crimes of the genocidal terrorist organizations that they support.

That is the only why, the only choice that they have given us.

It is either them or us. "Armageddon" the "end of the world... We are ready" Zubari proclaims. And if anything that Zubari and other terrorist organization supporters say-- he is right on this.

I would rather it be that we come out of it on the top-- No matter what it takes.

Anyone that doubts that we should and must win the war on terror should see the Nick Berg video or just hear the entire sound track.

Here is a link to the sound track:

http://www.geocities.com/callforjustice911/BERG51104.mpg

After hearing this poor man's screams that last for nearly 20 seconds as his head was hacked off, any "thinking" human being will see that these criminals, enemies of civilization need to be sought out and destroyed.

And that was just one human being. Three thousand others were lost on 911. And more will be lost in the War on Terror.

I have set up a site:

http://www.geocities.com/callforjustice911

And as of yesterday I set up a group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/callforjustice911/

All are invited, Al Qaeda terrorist supporters and those opposed.

Ho holds will be barred.

Let' have it out.

[Nonya]

I think that the beheading is "torture", and that is to be said to NOT SHANON. Ok, Not shanon if somebody cut your head off it wouldn't be torture? Not only did they beheaded him they tied him up, he couldn't even move, THAT IS TORTURE! So Not Shanon you need to just think about what your saying. Has anybody seen anything of it? (Pictures, or the Video?) I have seen some pictures and they hold his head in their hands once they cut it off! I am still looking for the video, when I find it I will post the link on here, especially so "not shanon" can watch it and then tell me if she thinks Nick, the man who was beheaded, was not tortured!!! Write back everybody!

[callforjustice911]

This is in response to Nonya who responded to "Not Shanon"

You are right Nonya what these sadistic animals did to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl IS torture.

Here is a link I found that has the videos of both "executions" (they are not "executions" they were done to with sadistc aims from dememted less than human individuals)

http://www.fobiopatel.com/dongles/archives/000751.php

Cut and paste it to the browser line and take a look if you can stomach it.

To see another beheading that is even more gruesome take a look at the beheading done by sadistic Islamic animals of a Russian civilian in this series. And they mock the dignity of this poor civilian when they play the Islamic music and then have a line that is some kind of plea for fathers.

All three beheadings, Nick Berg, The Unknown Russian soldier, and the Russian civilian had that awful sound of the wind coming out of the severed windpipe. All three screamed in agony, for whatever time it took to hack off their heads. And all three had blood pouring out of the severed neck. (You can see it with a high resolution video card in the Nick Berg video)

Awful.

And the last one is the method in which these sadistic Moslims kill their own. I saw something that was so awful that I had to turn it off. I saw the same in a movie called "Chaka Zulu" on the History channel, and that was an act. I thought that only Vlad the Impailer or the natives of lower Africa did this kind of thing in the distant past. Impale one through the anus and then lift them up on the shaft.

But Moslems do it to their own TODAY and take pleasure in it.

Beheadings with dull knives, and impalings...

SICK, SICK, SICK...

These "people" (if one can even use the term) are not even worthy to be considered "human"

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT !

First off, right off the bat, the human head does NOT contain 1.5 gallons of blood. (Unless you are VERY Fat with a commensurately FAT HEAD)

The human body contains 6 quarts (or 5.6 liters) of blood. That is 1.5 gallons. So at the very most the head has something on the order of a couple of pints or so at most.

And as for a geyser of blood. Not so, more like a spurting stream from the body, not the head.

See the actual beheading videos at:

http://www.fobiopatel.com/dongles/archives/000751.php

Cut and paste to the browser subject line, and view it if you have the stomach for it.

Now as for your other statements regarding the veracity of the arguments that you present.

THE BODY THAT NICK BERG'S PARENTS BURIED (SANS HEAD) SPEAKS VOLUMES.

The person that did this is the one that US has identified by voice recordings.

And just because Nick Berg was dressed in red and seating in a plastic chair does not put him in US custody at the time. Those jump suits are readily available EVERYWHERE, and they are not "regulation"... And those white plasitic chairs, made in China are also found EVERYWHERE... Including Iraq. (I have two of the exact same chairs in my yard here in the US).

So, all this stated, your objections to the beheading of Nick Berg have no merit.

[SIkandere]

Be advised not to give in to the patriotic blindness brought on by the emotional charge this video packs. CIA claims it has examined the video and concluded that the hooded figure is Zaqrawi, a high level al-Qaeda operative. However, anyone who has seen the video will attest to the fact that there is no way to identify anyone from it, including the victim. Second, according to an US military report in April "03, Zaqrawi was killed in the bombing of Falluja. CIA does not elaborate whether Zaqrawi has magically sprung back to life or whether the April report was wrong. The US media claimed that Zaqrawi lost a leg in 2001. Now, it says that he did not lose his leg after all. The US does not elaborate on which intelligence is wrong. The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse. It moved straight to using it in making a comparison between prison "humiliation" and a "beastly killing" saying to the shocked public "Look, we only humiliated them in the prison and look at what the animals do to us." First, there have been numerous reported deaths in the US prisons caused by severe beatings so comparing "humiliation" to a death is the wrong comparison. Second, the tortures and abuses have gone on for over a year. If al-Qaeda were in the business of avenging prison abuse, it would have already done it and probably on several occasions. Otherwise, it means that al-Qaeda gets their information from CNN or that it just happened to be a coincidence matching Abu Ghraib prison pictures with this video. It?s very unlikely that al-Qaeda would and could engage in this synchronized US media play. The victim in the video is wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, the kind seen in pictures of Guantanamo inmates. It?s hard to believe that al-Qaeda terrorists would be supplying their victims a regulation outfit. A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood yet the freshly decapitated head shown in the video is leaking none. Neck artery would squirt a foot long geyser of blood. There is no evidence of that either. Possibility of the victim being already dead is a question no one can answer now. The victim never resisted the killing. Even when on the ground, only one person sufficed to completely subdue N. Berg. Amazing, chairs at Abu Ghraib prison and the 'stage' of Nick Berg's execution are exactly the same. Berg worked at the Abu Ghraib shortly before his 'disappearance'.
The point is to provoke doubt and hopefully stave off a few readers from becoming an easy emotional target and a news puppet.

[sikandere]

Callforjustice911,
My point was never to prove that what happened to the US civilian was right, human,doctored or fake. The point is that today you n i are pretty much into the hands of the media where we are only being fed with what they (govts) want us know. only that much.
Sitting in our backyard or living room we can only form that much opinion which might be a few creative paras for a chat like this one. Media puppets thats what we are. Since 9/11 and before what do we know which is as clear as the video? NOTHING!!
Where is Osama?...why is he not being talked about like before attacking Afghanistan...
Where is Saddam?...He's caught, NOW WHAT?
All terrorists shown responsible for 9/11 were Saudi nationals. Then why attack Afghanistan? A country which anyway was struck by hunger and poverty gets bombed back to stone age for WHAT? Becuase a bunch of people have got refuge there.
Oh thats not enough...lets attack IRAQ...WMD cause. well where are the weapons of mass destruction? people of Iraq were being tortured by Saddam. Then whats happening in Aby Gharib prison? Atleast the poeple of Iraq then had electricity, jobs, schools, water. Now they dont even have a decent home. No one like strangers walking into one's backyard. This is still a country you are talking about here. Tell me, i dont remember to see or hear about any official or non official document being issued by Afghanistan or Iraq to the US asking for help...then why be the intruder...Self defence my left foot...US had credible info of the 9/11 attacks and there is documentation on it when the CIA was being blamed for not taking neccesary action to avoid such a disaster...Such cheap media wars create monsters like the ones in video...the hatred factor is born and such barbaric acts are commited...
Whether its Berg or Pearl, 9/11 or Iraq or Afghanistan...non justify any cause which the culprits desparetly try to prove...
Berg and his video is just another govt stunt using media to provoke and divert the prison abuse pressure on the Pentagon...YOU KNOW IT...NOW ITS TIME TO ACCEPT IT...before u and i are used as bait too...
Make no mistake...quit becoming an easy emotional target and a news puppet.

[sikandere]

callforjustice911
You seem have the stomach for all this and plus added knowledge as to where i can find execution videos...
Show me the link to the video of the 3 yrs old girl shot in the leg and forehead by the occupied forces in Rafah yesterday...
Her death was just not potrayed that way by the media like in Berg's case...
The point is as simple as it is.....

[callforjustice911]

sikandere,

THEY STARTED IT WITH 911-- 2,998 OF OUR CITIZENS WERE LOST ON THAT DAY !

And it was a dastardly attack by Talibanized individuals used by Osama and his boys from Saudi Arabia to do the dirty deed.

It is the ultra-fundamentalists that did this, not the moderate Saudis

Radical Islamic fundamentalists...

THEY DECLARED WAR ON US !

And now we are paying them back-- with interest I might add.

War is hell, no doubt about it. And if they doubt it, we will inflict war on these people, driving it home to the hilt.

War is hell... General Sherman said as he marched into Georgia in 1865, and he burned everything on the way. War is hell, and it is true today.

2,998 innocent civilians died on 9/11/2001 in a dastardly attack. Iraq and Afganistan-- especially Afganistan were targets in this war on terror BECAUSE they harbor terrorists. And yes, it is sad when civilians get killed in this...

BUT WAR IS HELL !

That is the way it is, so live with it till it is done.

Media puppets... Bull Shit !

Believe what you like but the truth of the matter will be settled on the battlefield.

911-- there is a call for justice.

This is war. A war that the Islamic bastards declared on us. And war is hell, we as a nation will bring that point home very well.

And when it is over, then maybe our current enemy will abhor war as much as Japan and Germany do today.

We brought them to their knees in WW II

Call For Justice 911 !

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of muslims, christians, hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...

tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they manged to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harbouring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battle field...What war is? Against a country or againt some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur american, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US atacks these countries saying this is self defence...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...siut your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do nt represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
nobody settles NOTHING here
From one victim to another

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of muslims, christians, hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...

tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they manged to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harbouring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battle field...What war is? Against a country or againt some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur american, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US atacks these countries saying this is self defence...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...siut your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do nt represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
nobody settles NOTHING here
From one victim to another

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of muslims, christians, hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...

tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they manged to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harbouring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battle field...What war is? Against a country or againt some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur american, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US atacks these countries saying this is self defence...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...siut your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do nt represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
nobody settles NOTHING here
From one victim to another

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of muslims, christians, hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...

tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they manged to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harbouring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battle field...What war is? Against a country or againt some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur american, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US atacks these countries saying this is self defence...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...siut your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do nt represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
nobody settles NOTHING here
From one victim to another

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...

tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they managed to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harbouring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battle field...What war is? Against a country or againt some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur american, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US atacks these countries saying this is self defence...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...siut your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do nt represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
nobody settles NOTHING here
From one victim to another

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911

To begin with it never started from 9/11...only this is true that you got exposed to it through media on that date...a number of Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc etc were in the 6000 plus figure that perished on 9/11 horrific attacks...

2998 is a figure for press and media so that the govt can avoid regional chaos and fear in the nation...thats the official figure for the media...
Tell me how different is the US from those involved in 9/11 or other attacks? The US attacks the terrorists in Afghanistan and kill innocent people in the bargain...they caught nothing but dust...they managed to move them out of Afghanistan thats all...
OSAMA is still at large... reminds me of the poem that All the Kings Horses and All the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty in capture AGAIN...
Let me remind you...if the US wanted to catch him they would have by now...but that does not support there agenda and cause...
Everyday innocent poeple are dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, and all you can say is 'ITS SAD'!!
You need to get out MORE
Wasnt USA harboring those 18 terrorists of 9/11 within the US...they trained and learnt to fly there...Ur telling me that the US intelligence didnt know or had no info on this...You buy this bunch of crap...rest of the world has a wider and broader opinion...coz we are not blind folded by the US foreign Policy...which more than half of the US doesnt even know what it is.
US Military Intelligence are two words combined that cant make sense...
The super power is doing lap dance into the hands of ONE MAN and a group of his cause supporters...
You talked about settling scores on Battlefield...What war is? Against a country or against some people in it? You wanna settle a score then fight someone your size or even half with Fighter Jets and tanks and all that those modern gadgets...This is no war...this is tanks against stones...Military vs a bunch of angry civilians...You call this a fight...even they are giving a hard time...imagine a WAR...toppling weak nations for personal liking is not what US is upto...i am sorry to say but your opinion is not yours...its just of another angry civilian...in your case ur American, whereas they are Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghanis etc etc.
In recent past what US has made outta this hell is nothing but MORE ENEMIES!! Which is why innocent people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg suffer...and all you know there are many more who were never shot on video, coz of which you and i are not aware of...
US attacks these countries saying this is self defense...despite of the fact that UN stopped them...suit your cause baby...exactly what others are doing...people who kill the innocent do not represent Muslims or any other religion...they represent their own LOST CAUSE...which includes USA...
And YES WAR IS HELL!! Some you dont know orders you to kill some one you dont know...and HEY
Only the DEAD have seen the END of WAR!!
Nobody settles ANYTHING here
From one victim to another

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

Guess I got your attention. How many times can you post your bull shit to make a point? Six times in a row ?

Innocents die in war, just as innocents died in 911.

Total war is total. Your darling terrorists brought it on themselves. Like "Hassan" here on this list. He wants "Armageddoon" and that he and his ilk will get.

Terrorists will get terror in return. They picked a fight with a superpower, and they will find out what happens. They will not like the result. But when it is over, they will hate war- A war that they declared and brought upon themselves.

That is the way it is in Total War.

As for Saddam, Osama and other terrorists, they deserve public hanging, like those war criminals at the end of WW II. And I think that is exactly what will happen to Saddam very soon.

And Total War does settle things. Look at WW II for a case in point. 50 million died in that war. And history shows that "things" were settled. Germany, Japan, and Italy hate war, and are loath to engage in it today.

War is part of this world, and that is just the way it is with man.

And there are certain individuals, sub-humans such as Osama, Saddam, and others that want war. They want "Armageddon."

We have it forced on us by them. And it is our aim to rid humanity of their ilk, lest they poop on the progression of Mankind's higher aim in history-- infinitely higher then the cesspool aims that Talibanized terrorists have. Those less than human "persons" that singled out innocent persons and hacked off their heads are criminals... plain and simple. There is no "reason" in the crimes that they committed.

And it is their lack of "reason" that is the reason for this War on Terror.

If humanity is to progress we must eliminate their ilk from the earth.

And that is what we intend to do in a "Total War" that the terrorists declared.

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

The figure for the 911 is 2998 dead-- not 6,000 plus. And in that 2998 dead there were people from many nations-- including Arabs, and moslems.

Talibanized killers made no distinction in that. But in their twisted thinking "western" Moslems are not true members of Islam anyway-- just as much infidels and those outside of their faith.

6,000+ you don't know what you are talking about.

Reading conspiracy books?

How about the National Inquirer ? Or some other tabloid?

Bad place to get your of "ideals" of things that you admit that you don't know about......

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

You just don't get it do you?

This is World War (3) and we are in the midst of it.

And the issues are very clear. Islamic Fundamentalists hate Jews, hate Israel, hate the United States, and they have declared war on us and Western Civilizaiton.

You can bury your bone head all you want, you can sit in that "grey area" till one day when that big flash in the sky burns your butt to ashes.

That is what they want to do, get their hands on an atomic bomb and use it against the enemies that they have made (any infidel outside of their religion).

Or, maybe a dirty bomb so that you can waste away, in your "grey area" or maybe some biologic agent that will cause a slow agonizing death as you sit in your "grey area" sandbox.

Which way do you want to die?

(Or maybe they would get you and hack your "grey area" head off, like they did to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl)

These Islamic bastards will be more than able and willing to oblige you.

War criminals, that is what they are, in a war that they declared.

And they will be defeated. And hopefully hanged in public the way war criminals were at the end of the last World War.

It does not matter who the president is, or his agents-- Eventually it will be "we the people" who are sick and tired of these less than human individuals that are motivated by their hate filled fundamentalist Islamic beliefs.

They want to live in the seventh century, and they want us (infidels) to do the same.

Well, sorry pal, I don't care for their "vision" of the world, nor do any thinking people either.

Bury your head in the sand, sit in your "grey area" and your butt will get blown away.

As for me, I know the enemy, and keep my eyes open and my guns locked and loaded-- ready to fire.

And I look forward to that day when this war will end and humanity can continue in peace, having rid the world of these people that want war and the end of civilization as we know it, replacing it with Talibanization. Hitler had the same notion, to end civilizaton and replace it with Mien Kamph, after he exterminated all of the Jews and anti-NAZI people.

This war will continue till the enemy of the United States is defeated-- soundly. Just as Hitler and his minions were defeated in WWII

I was not a war like person.

And that was the way it was for me up till 911. But after-- I am for the war, because there is no other choice. Our enemy gives us no other choice.

Any more than than our advisaries did when they engaged us in WW II.

Americans, when their backs are to the wall, will fight.

Another attack like 911, we may lose our restraint and all hell will break lose.

And war is hell---

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911
I am from France/Netherlands/Europe/or the places you suspect...hahaha...i dont wanna shock you from my identity as internet could make me Ms. Monika or the one you are neighbours with...i can be anyone for all you care, right!!!...thats not the point...the point is that you say "AFTER 911 WE ARE PISSED OFF!"
you sound like a nagging wife
i dont wish to continue this mindless chat with you, where u consider yourself and people like you YAHOO...
Goodluck with your 60 second TV...
i wish you fulfill your fantasy pretty soon and get it done with...
Life is too short today Mr. CallforJustice911...keep calling for it...u r too scared even to mention your name...
Chill dude...
GOD bless America.....

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice,
I fail to understand why anyone not having an opinion same as yours is not valid in his or her point!!
The language you have chosedn to use in your last reply makes me feel you are getting desperate now in trying to prove a point that you are working hard to write all this...which anyhow sounds like comments from a man who has never flown out of US...i bet you havent...
try making conversations instead of screaming your thoughts...

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

I nailed you as to what your country is... France, Netherlands... Which is a better "guess" than the bet that you made that I have not left my country (which I have).

(Spineless wonders the French are, makes wonder why we even liberated you guys from the NAZI's. It is something that you should consider when you see the 9,000 plus American Soldiers still buried at Normandy. You should thank them and 387,000+ other AMEREICANS that gave their lives to liberate you blokes.)

It is you that is the fool, the idiot, as you vegetate in your "grey area."

The words you use prove how ignorant you are.

As for me, I keep my identity very secret. I am more important than you think. And I will let you guess all you want. (Thank God for Yahoo, where one can state points and positions without ever revealing an identity) But we are at war, and I would not want a letter bomb in my box endangering my life or my family by those terrorist associates that you seem to be supporting and shouldering with.

Now; when you wrote after quoting me,

"...the point is that you say "AFTER 911 WE ARE PISSED OFF!"
you sound like a nagging wife"

You must have had some experience in this; your wife, she must be a real nag... You should end it with her and get a real life, and a non-nagging wife, where the reality of 911 will become more apparent to you.

Well, as for my wife, she agrees with me and does not nag as I suppose that your wife (if you have one) does, and my wife is "pissed off" just as much as me about the bastards that attacked us on 911.

So we agree.

But you could do your mind well by getting out of that "grey area" sandbox that you have your head buried in and see the light of day. This War on Terror will affect you whether YOU like it or not. How would you like to live under the Taliban-- Bet you would like that very much ?

And who will you call upon to be liberated, since it seems to me that you don't have the guts to lift a weapon to defend your rights?

But the the only thing that you wrote in all of your posts that is true-- "GOD bless America."

That God Almighty will do.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911
To begin with, i was not trying to prove anything by sending the mail 6 times...i had a network problem due to which i clicked 'post' several times...i am sorry if i hurt your fragile ego...
As for your reply, Total War and giving examples of WWII do not make any sense with 911 or any other terrorist attacks...
The reason why WWII began and why the whole world went to guns was TOTALLY a different cause, not sure if you know that anyway, and there s NO comparison what so ever with present day mindless incidences...
I feel sorry for you and others like you who depend on Tabloids and other special evening bulletins to form an opinion on the current affairs...
Who is a true Muslim or Christian is NOT for you or America to decide...
You wish to get rid of the ugly ducklings of humanity?
Who gave America that right?
Are you GOD?
If yes then GOD doesnt make mistakes!!
Or maybe according to you America is appointed by GOD through some dream that came into top dog's mind, oh lets do the Operation clean up...
France Russia Germany and many other European states opposed this mindless 'War on Terror' but Mr America here feels we are still in WWII...
All what America earned in this chaos was another puppet named Tony Blair who himself hasnt earned much. Infact his own people like Bush dont wish to re elect him...
Recent letter from one of the US soldiers to his family mentions that being in Iraq is NOT WAR...we dont evben know our enemy...Who they are and non of the rules of war apply here...we are in a frying pan where one of us burns everyday...
All your arguments are very emotional and good for a Miss America Contest...I LOVE HUMANITY!!!...
Please come into the grey area...there is plenty of space for you...
WAR for Peace is like Sex for Virginity...
You still cannot justify innocent deaths from 911 to Afghanistan to Iraq to Palentine to where ever there be people like Osama Saddam and Bush administration.....
All three try to justify innocent Deaths with there lost causes...
And you and I suffer through such conversations and more trying to produce justifications.....

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

You are such an ignorant idiot.

I have been out of my country in places that you cannot concieve of. It is YOU that need to think before you shoot off your mouth, "betting" that I never left my country. You lost the bet "world traveler" that knows nothing except the "grey area" where your mind is stagnating in.

And I am quite aware of the situation here and there in those "other countries" that you alude to.

There is no "grey area" in war pal. In war liberals get clobbered and become conservatives.

It is "black and white" that makes or breaks the day in war. And that is where the world is headed-- like it or not.

Where are you from, "grey area" mind (If you have a mind to think)? Let me guess France or the Netherlands. If so, those people and you would now have a NAZI flag flying over them if it were not for the UNITED STATES !

And I am quite aware of the situation here and there in those "other countries" that you alude to.

So don't make assumptions about people you don't know. I have been around enough in my 50 plus years. And I have learned not to "bet" on anything, though from your writing I think that you are somewhere in Europe or one of those countries that I suspect.

Bottom line with me, and many Americans.

AFTER 911 WE ARE PISSED OFF !

We are acting with restraint, but be warned, another attack on our country like 911 and all hell will break out.

We will be even more relentless in persuing these bastards and bring them to justice at the end of a rope or with a lethal injection like putting a dog to sleep.

Our world must be free from these terrorists and those that wish to bring western civilization down. If you think that the Islam that these Talibanized persons think is so great-- Then go there and live in that Dark Ages that they envision for the world.

Not for me.

If they want to live that way; fine, keep it to themselves. But when the go out of their way and into my territory and blow up our buildings killing 2998 or my people to start--

THEY HAVE GONE TOO FAR !

Japan's Admiral Yamamoto at the start of WW II with the United States after the surprise attack said, "I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant..."

And he was right. They lost cities by the end of the war that they started with the UNITED STATES.

These Islamic bastards will come to know the truth of Admiral Yamamoto's statement when the end of the end of the War on Terroism comes.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911
Your crap about how you rescued a bung of French or Dutch poeple doesnt mean a thing to me...which i suppose would now remove your doubts of me being any of the above...
I strongly oppose acts like 9/11...but not the way you potray them by using it as an excuse to become just like one of them...i would still like to walk with my head high and being able to look into everyones eyes as a nation rather than being pushed around as an American or its Ally...
I still believe that their is a BIG difference between us and them...but someone out there wantsto finish this thin line between us...
Such attitude create monsters and i see one in the making...Hatred and strong individual opinions wont get anyone anywhere...
i would appreciate if you could keep this discussion between us rather than taking it to your or my wife...
And yes GOD Bless America...when u learn to appreciate others, you shall get the same someday...

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere

It is you "Sikandere" that brought up "nagging wives"-- so I simply carried that on as it was YOU that brought it up.

Yes there are monsters in this world and the sad fact is that one must become harsh to deal with them.

We have no other option. They offer no other compromise. They are sadistic ilk that hide under Islam, hate America, hate Israel, and also hate Europe-- it is just that Europe does not realize it yet.

Europe will. After they get their own "911" experience and get their heads our of the "grey area" where your head is now at.

And yes, I do HATE these bastards-- and that is what TOTAL WAR is all about. It takes things like what is going on now to motivate one to such. There are others, many others that feel exactly as I do, and those numbers will increase with each and every attack that al-Qaeda launches against us.

And I take exception to this that you wrote:

"Such attitude create monsters and i see one in the making...Hatred and strong individual opinions wont get anyone anywhere..."

I take execption to this in so far as "hatred and strong individual opinions" DO get "anyone anywhere" (a settlement of dispute).

What do you think war is pal ?

A tea party?

Show me a war that was fought without hate behind it.

I too see a lot of "monsters in the making" and the ones I see are over there in the Middle East. Sadistic individuals that hack off innocent men's heads.

And now there is war, a war of their own declaration and making.

There are bullets flying, and there is hatred that started it. Fundamentalist Islamic hate directed toward us, and our response to it.

These individuals declared a war on the United States, they have threatened to kill millions of our people, yes millions-- that is what Osama said would bring victory over the United States.

It is our right and obligation to defend ourselves and respond accordingly.

War is spawned out of hate, and that is a reality now. And there will be resolution and we will all get somewhere at the end of it.

So-- that said, war does solve problems. Read Hagel, you might learn something about "reason in history."

At least Libya's leader saw the "handwriting on the wall" when Iraq and Afganistan fell and saw some reason to disarm. He abandonded his aims to gain atomic weapons, lest he wind up really living out in the middle of nowhere in a tent-- not because he wants to, but because he would have to.

Things are going to get a lot worse. We are at war and will be for a number of years.

And there will be victory over those that stand in the way of the progress of Mankind and civilization.

So, all that I can say to you is get your head out of that "grey area" that you speak of and get some spine and be ready for it.

The ride is goin to get a lot rougher.

[sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
True there is hatred behind war...a strong reason...
There is OIL too...another strong reason...
There is 9/11 behind hatred, innocent killed...strong reason...
There is 3/19 behind hatred, the day Iraq was attacked, innocent lives lost...another strong reason...
You asked me to check my knowledge in history...Please refer to past fact n figures where you may learn that:
Iraq never grew these weapons at home...they were provided those, by people who had political interests in the region, need i mention OIL again?
Ans. America!
How did Afghanistan get all that ammunition?
Who aided them to get rid of the Russian rule?
Who wanted to bring the former Super Power down?
Ans. Oops America again!!
Who led USA into Iraq the first time they attacked them under Bush's father?
Ans. Osama Bin Laden!!
Who created this monster for their own cause and purpose?
Ans. America
Who created devils like Aamil Kansi, and Yosuf Ramzi?
Ans. America - ex CIA personal.
America begins such projects and then find themselves in deep shit...Imagine the hatred they have created for themselves that 9/11 was created...you said it right...there is always a reason and hatred behind WAR...imagine how far were these people pushed that they turned into animals...i dont advocate for those who under this limelight of opposition try to get their personal agendas infront...such as Nick Berg and Daniel Pearls killers...
Such people make the whole nation look bad...
Similarly how the Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse soldiers put Americans feel like one of THEM!!
Court Marshall of a soldier does not help! You think the world is silly...what a fool he is who thinks everyone bought this beurocratic BULLSHIT...NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Even the soldier screams that it was all order to them by superiors
they are replacing Sanchez the man who led the battle into Afghanistan for the US...oh and its not for the prison abuse...your own people want Mr.Rumsfeld to resign...he wont...the man loves his power...go ahead, flaunt it...
Read this:
That's too bad, Earl. Looks like you're another ping-pong ball in this global game of emotional manipulation.
Posted by: Andrew Lynch on May 11, 2004 03:13 PM
Read this:
You're not serious are you. I will not degrade President Bush's will, desire or ability to get his policies through, but they are hardly effective policies. I honestly believe that changing horses would be a wash in the management of the war. Bush and Rumsfeld have had a pretty crappy plan for Iraq and were completely ill prepared for the occupation, both in equipment and manpower. They ignored senior military leadership and set up a war plan that worked famously for the "combat phase" and dropped the ball during the occupation.
What happened to the Inspection agents for WMD in Iraq? One quit and the other suddenly COMMITED SUICIDE!!
There is alot more that is going down...
AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY only suits AMERICA not even the Americans in it...

[callforjustice911]

So " sikandere " I have finally exposed your rabid Anti-Americanism. That is the vogue in the world now... Hate Americans.

Well chew on this with regards to what you wrote:

"True there is hatred behind war...a strong reason...
There is OIL too...another strong reason...
There is 9/11 behind hatred, innocent killed...strong reason...
There is 3/19 behind hatred, the day Iraq was attacked, innocent lives lost...another strong reason...
You asked me to check my knowledge in history...Please refer to past fact n figures where you may learn that:
Iraq never grew these weapons at home...they were provided those, by people who had political interests in the region, need i mention OIL again?
Ans. America!
How did Afghanistan get all that ammunition?
Who aided them to get rid of the Russian rule?
Who wanted to bring the former Super Power down?
Ans. Oops America again!!
Who led USA into Iraq the first time they attacked them under Bush's father?
Ans. Osama Bin Laden!!
Who created this monster for their own cause and purpose?
Ans. America
Who created devils like Aamil Kansi, and Yosuf Ramzi?
Ans. America - ex CIA personal.
America begins such projects and then find themselves in deep shit...Imagine the hatred they have created for themselves that 9/11 was created...you said it right...there is always a reason and hatred behind WAR...imagine how far were these people pushed that they turned into animals..."

You overlook the forces that were in your recount of history. The Soviet Union was, or had taken Afganistan. And we supplied Osama and his ilk with the weapons to drag that war out for 10 years.

But that did not endear us with Osama, who then as now considered us as much a "great satan" as Russia. There is a power play going on in the world at all times. We chose our allies depending on who it is that represents the greatest threat. In this it is just too bad that humanity cannot conduct the affairs of nations in a more humane way. But that is the way it is. And EVERY nation does it. Europe had their fill of alliances over their long bloody history.

And now they hate war. (Let's see what happens when they are again under threat-- and they will be.)

But with regards to your rabid anti-Americanism:

Balance it with this, who do you think supplies most of the food for starving nations?

We supply all of our excess food to starving nations-- many of these in the Islamic world-- and the hate us ?

Talk about "cutting off the hand that feeds you" ?

These people are stupid, and nations that hate us after we lend aid are stupid as well.

If they want to beat us, do as China is doing-- Economics-- that is what drives the world-- not brute force of arms, as these Islamic bastards are attempting to do to gain their aims of "7th century vision for the world."

Now chew on this:

Who do you think supplies medicine and foreign aid when another nation's chips come down ?

Who supplies the education that is needed for foreign students that need that education to take their nations into the 21st century ?

And who is it that supplies the forces to rid a nation under the shackles of a home grown despot ?

AMERICA !

Who supplies the expertise in agriculture ?

I could go on and an on with many examples, with one answer...

AMERICA !

Just an aside here, with regards to the recent Serbian Genocide in Yugoslavia where countless Moslems were singled out for extermination, 200,000, -- WHERE WERE THE RADICAL ISLAMIC FIGHTERS THEN ?

Where were those "outraged" Islamic fighters then when members of their own faith were being eliminated in mass genocide, mirroring the way that the NAZIs exterminated people ?

And even Europe sort of turned a blind eye to it.

One would think that being that members of their own Islamic religion were being exterminated that other Islamics would come to their aid....

DID THEY ?

AMERICA DID ! WHEN NO ONE ELSE, ESPECIALLY THOSE FROM THE "ISLAMIC WORLD" LOOKED THE OTHER WAY!

We flew bombers all the way from Kansas and Nebraska to bomb the Serbians into surrender.

And now that bastard Milosovich is sitting in the docks as a war criminal. He should have been tried by those that he attempted to exterminate and let them get Islamic justice.

I am sick and tired as an American listening to the reasons that the world gives as to why we are hated-- it is-- CRAP. We pour out our food, we give our lives in YOUR wars, and we get hatred in return.

We are on the top of the heap, and the rest of the world hates because of it. But unfortunately being on the top of the heap requires a greater responsibility. We are the world's police.

And we are hated for it because those that hate us will not take up the responsibility to harness the evil forces such as radical Islamic beliefs that wish to take EVERYONE DOWN to their level.

That radical Islamic bastard in England that was arrested today was setting up al-Qaeda camps here in the US and England with the explicit aim of taking both countries down. And was his ultimate aim for England to be ISLAMIC like the Taliban version. And he said "free speech" Now he knows that there is a limit to "free speech" when it is a cry to encourage for the destruction of the nation that supports "free speech." We have a solid case against this bastard and will put him in prison issue a death sentence for what he has done.

These stinking Islamic fanatics have declared war on us wishing to take everone down.

And as a result, being that we are by default the world's police--

IT IS AMERICA'S AND ENGLAND'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THEM FAIL. CIVILIZATION DEPENDS ON IT !

And who is up to THE challenge--

AMERICA-- LAND OF THE FREE ! and ENGLAND and every nation that has the spine, the backbone to stand against terror.

Then you wrote:

"i dont advocate for those who under this limelight of opposition try to get their personal agendas infront...such as Nick Berg and Daniel Pearls killers...
Such people make the whole nation look bad...
Similarly how the Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse soldiers put Americans feel like one of THEM!!
Court Marshall of a soldier does not help! You think the world is silly...what a fool he is who thinks everyone bought this beurocratic BULLSHIT...NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Even the soldier screams that it was all order to them by superiors
they are replacing Sanchez the man who led the battle into Afghanistan for the US...oh and its not for the prison abuse...your own people want Mr.Rumsfeld to resign...he wont...the man loves his power...go ahead, flaunt it..."

You overlook, "sikandere" one major point in this-- "WE EXPOSED IT ! "

I want you to consider this-- name for me one nation in any part of human history that has occupied another nation and exposed themselves this way ?

NAME ONE PLEASE !

We are bringing this issue to fore, and we are prosecuting for the crimes committed. And as I wrote previously to "May"

But we have exposed them, and will try and convict them of these crimes. And it should not only involve them, but those that ordered them to do these things.

It is a disgrace to America. It has gravely tarnished our reputation in the eyes of the world and in the Muslim world at large.

But only thing good that comes out of it is that WE HAVE EXPOSED IT. It was not the press, or any other country. It was our military that found out about what was going on there, under the guidence of twisted officers, soldiers, and guards. And there are not any regimes that I can think of that have occupied another country and have brought their own to a courts martial for war crimes.

Name one.

In this we as a nation are unique.

So, Mr. "sikandere" NAME ONE nation that has exposed their crimes in the country that they have occupied ? Despots do not reveal themselves this way. It takes others to do it AFTER A WAR.

I have no beef with you regarding Bush, he has screwed up this war very badly. It is my opinion that his father screwed up too. We should have marched all the way to Bagdad in '91 and rid the world of Saddam then. And in so doing we would have made friends with the Shites who were hoping that we would do that.

We with restraint we held back and as I predicted then, along with others that this would be Bush 1's gravest mistake, as we would eventually have a much broader war to de with, where the stakes will be higher, and we would not have the Shites support. Instead now, we have them as adversaries. And Osama as a result would not be the "power" that he currently "enjoys"

And now, this is where we are at. But that does not minimize our responsibility to deal with it. And now as I and others predicted in '91-- we have a broaders war.

And lastly you wrote "oil" is the reason.

I don't think so, as I understand that the US is only 10% dependent on "Islamic" oil.

But they are dependent on us for, as I noted earlier --- FOOD !

The United States exports more food than any other nation on the face of the earth. And in many cases we send it out FREE in aid.

That said, what I think is going to happen is that we will find a way of developing fuel cells that use methanol for a fuel source. (Methanol comes from the grain that we grow) And then we can keep that food that we send to our enemies and say to them "screw you ! " Eat your oil; grow your own food out in your deserts-- you won't be getting anymore from us."

BTW: Platinum is going up in price because of the demand for fuel cell development. (It' $833 per/oz)

Give it 10 years and we AMERICA "land of the free" will be free from dependency on foreign oil.

Let the starving nations grow their own food, and in that task maybe they will not have the time or effort to wage war on other nations. They will be too busy trying to feed themselves.

[callforjustice911]

I was mistaken about the figures of how much "oil" dependency that the US imports It is 52 % and that is from all exporting nations, not just "Islamic" nations.

See:

80?291PDF
2002
OIL DIPLOMACY: FACTS AND MYTHS BEHIND FOREIGN OIL DEPENDENCY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

JUNE 20, 2002

Serial No. 107?97

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa80291.000/hfa80291_0.htm

The above report, which is very lenghy, presents the problem and the possible solutions very well.

Also, this is ONLY oil and does not represent our total energy requirements as most of our electric power is provided by coal resources.

From a brief overview of it, the U.S. is embarking on a path to minimize dependency on "Islamic" oil sources.

Fuel cell technology is playing a big part in this process. (hence the increase in platinum prices as this metal is essential in the development of fuel cells)

In summary the U.S. will not be held hostage to oil suppliers who use oil as a weapon.

And Russia is a huge supplier of old with very large untapped oil reserves. Cash strapped, dealing with them as a free market partner will be to their and our advantage.

Mid-East oil will mean less and less to us, as it is our intention as a nation to reduce our dependency on Mid-East oil. New technology (which Americans excel at) will set us free from them.

Bottom line, we will not be held held over the "oil barrel" and be hostage to the likes of Islamic bastards that blow up buildings killing innocent civilians, let alone hack off innocent men's heads in their aims to control the industrialized world.

That is the bottom line and our aim.

They can eat their oil then.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Thanks for all the info on Oil Conspiracy and other facts n figures...
I'm sorry but they only seem to impress a group of people who live under a shadow of the Fatherhood 'Bush Administration'...
Lets begin with your comment as you call these terrorists 'Islamic Bastards'...
Attacking Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and the Jewish religion is what the terrorists do...they feed on the fact that one's belief in their own religion is so damn weak that they feel to defend themselves by provoking others with such Harsh statements as Islamic Bastards or Islamic Oil...
As i mentioned earlier in my replies to you...these people (terrorists and other administrations against humanity) rely on RELIGION using it as an emotional weapon to support their LOST CAUSE against other weak emotional targets...
Now to your Hollywood approach to this whole matter...'World Police'!!! Are you kidding me!!!Never heard of such mindless reasoning to ones point of view pal...i think you are running out of meat in your arguments here over American foreign policies or maybe the attack on Islam i may say...Your view point now clearly reflects the hatred towards the religion itself of which i know you know nothing about...
As for your helping the World claim...i repeat again...now one on record or otherwise asked for help in IRAQ...
NAME ONE!!
And if it was a move towards the policy 'War against Terror' to get rid of the Weapons of Mass Destruction then, WHERE THE HELL ARE THEYYYYYYY!!!!!
Supplying food and aid to other nations in need is the job of the UN to do not America...if America has done it on their part then it was clearly in their own interest...
Oil is a big reserve that America already has...they DO NOT depend on foreign oil completely...it is there wish to buy foreign oil which you in a racist manner refer to as Islamic Oil...Unless there is a new component in oil known as Islam...
This tells me your level of education or perhaps your limitations in grasping THE TRUTH over political LIES!!
Look at he BIGGER PICTURE...People in Iraq who have slogans against America do not say we hate the American people and if they do then how different are you? (Islamic Bastards and Islamic Fanatics and Hate Moslems)?
No where in America or Iraq or otherwise i see the civilian fighting the civilian...unless you talk of a country's internal political issues between to parties...
Now in reference to the prison abuse and your claim that 'WE Exposed It)...whose WE? Bush? Rumsfeld? Powell? Sanchez? Blair?
THE MEDIA EXPOSED DID!!!!!
You think the pictures were clicked and then distributed by the army itself?? The fact that the issue took them by surprise pushed the government to order forces to a Court Marshal to kick ONE, JUST ONE guy out of the army...This was to avoid the back fire against sympathy over the prisoners in Abu Ghraib...Bush's anger was not WHY it happened...he clearly mentions WHY was I NOT informed about it...Should have right!! could have planned better measures to avoid it...I have two page interview of two Americans in Fridays newspaper who clearly mention that the same Guards and many others doing the same in Afghan prisons while they themselves were there...its just that this time the media got hold of the pics somehow...so please 'WE EXPOSED IT' sounds like someone wants to take undue credit...
So my friend Mr. CallforJustice911 it is entirely upto you if you wish to argue over matters or be like a hollow head by attacking other religions with harsh statements like (Islamic Oil or Islam Oil)...
STUDY more is my advice to you...Islam just like any other religion does not teach to hate Americans or any faith...its just an emotional weapon used against Moslems to provoke them and in the bargain people like you become targets of it...
Does America or American teach people to hate other faiths???
I DONT THINK SO!!!

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

You?re ignorance of facts astonishes me.

We, the UNITED STATES are the "world's police" and that can be backed up not by me but by our role in foreign policy.

And our administrations from President Bush all the way back to those at the end of WW II have said this, and I invite you to go back are read policy statements by ALL of our administrations to see the truth of it.

Why are we the "world's police" the answer is by default.

No one else, especially the Europeans are willing to act in it.

So, in your ignorance of facts you stand with hour head not in the "grey area" but in the darkness of your a**.

And if you want to get down to religion, those that trace their line to "Hagar" the servant of Abraham are "bastards." And ever since that day, they have tried and failed to take the place of the chosen, the people of Israel.

Anyone that traces their line to Ishmael the son of Hagar and Abraham of the Bible is the illegitimate child, one not born of his wife. ( Strictly defined = A bastard ) Ishmael was the child born not in the faith of God but out of desperation in Abraham and Sarah?s unbelief. In old age, Abraham sired a child with a servant, Hagar rather than his wife Sarah. And when the promise of God was shortly fulfilled through Sarah, with the birth of Isaac, Hagar and her son Ishmael were sent away, with the warning from God that there would be strife between Isaac and Ishmael and their descendants which would be nations. Isaac was the father of the nation of Israel-- the chosen of God. And Ishmael was the father of the nations that now bear Islam as their faith.

So there is the "religion" of it.

Now for your "points"

You wrote:

"As for your helping the World claim...i repeat again...now one on record or otherwise asked for help in IRAQ...
NAME ONE!!
And if it was a move towards the policy 'War against Terror' to get rid of the Weapons of Mass Destruction then, WHERE THE HELL ARE THEYYYYYYY!!!!!"

100,000 Kurds that died before '91 war.

Gassed in a genocide.

Guess Saddam used "fake gas"

And I think that we will find stocks of such gas, and other weapons. It is interesting what we are finding in Libya where things needed to make atomic bombs were ordered but not delivered. Iraq, Pakistan, and other "Islamic" nations were involved.

As for "help"

And you are right, no one especially French asked for help in Iraq. But Saddam was one that needed to be eliminated. He was a threat to world peace and a threat to his own people. And he was a threat to the people of the United States. Our biggest error was that we should have finished him off in '91-- And we could have. The Shiites at that time were pleading for us to go in, and we did not. And with 12 years since, their attitudes changed, and now they are oppose us.

Then you wrote:

"Supplying food and aid to other nations in need is the job of the UN to do not America...if America has done it on their part then it was clearly in their own interest..."

You are really showing how uniformed you are. We, the United States of America pride ourselves with the claim of being the "bread basket of the world" With less than 3% or our population in agriculture we grow far more than we can consume. And this we send out ALL over the world, to nations where most of the population must grow and produce their own food, and still cannot do it. We, the people of the UNITED STATES, the BREAD BASKET OF THE WORLD, do so under the direction of the UN (which we also established after WW II)

Very few nations on this planet are self sufficient when it comes to food production. And when it comes to feeding those nations that cannot feed their own, the BULK of the food comes from us.

You look into it, and you will see that it is true.

Then you wrote:

"Oil is a big reserve that America already has...they DO NOT depend on foreign oil completely..."

You need to read that report to dispel your ignorance on the matter here it is:

See:

80?291PDF
2002
OIL DIPLOMACY: FACTS AND MYTHS BEHIND FOREIGN OIL DEPENDENCY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

JUNE 20, 2002

Serial No. 107?97

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa80291.000/hfa80291_0.htm

(cut and paste it and READ it before you put your fingers to the keyboard)

In it you will find the US depends of 52% of its oil from foreign sources. That includes Norway, Russian and yes "Islamic" oil."

Then you wrote:

"It is there wish to buy foreign oil which you in a racist manner refer to as Islamic Oil...Unless there is a new component in oil known as Islam...
This tells me your level of education or perhaps your limitations in grasping THE TRUTH over political LIES!!"

Let me tell you this, radical Islam has not endeared itself to me after 911.

And the ?new component in oil known as Islam? is the power that they think they have in changing American foreign policy by using it as a weapon to gain their aims. And Islamic nations are using their oil to hold us hostage to their aims. We the People will not be held hostage to any nation. They had better learn that now. And I do hate those that wish to take my home, my country down, as radical Islamic persons, (sub-humans that cut off men?s heads for pleasure and blow up buildings) wish to do.

Political lies. Bull Shit !

Political lies are and must be exposed in war.

We are right and they (radical Islamics) are wrong. And if need be we will prove it in battle.

There are two ideologies here, one of the free and one the opposite of.

That is what is at stake.

Then you wrote:

"Look at he BIGGER PICTURE...People in Iraq who have slogans against America do not say we hate the American people and if they do then how different are you? (Islamic Bastards and Islamic Fanatics and Hate Moslems)?"

No matter what the small pieces are in the overall picture, the BIG PICTURE is:

THEY DO !

They march through the streets, shouting their slogans of hate against America, Israel, Infidels, and what is not "Islam" (not all followers of Islam, but the radicals in support of radical mullahs).

And after 911, I DO HATE THEM. I make no bones about it. And that is what it takes to fight a war. One more attack like 911 and all hell will break out.

No matter what the small pieces are in the overall picture, the BIG PICTURE is that.

I for one will not live under Islamic Talibanism, and I would bear arms to prevent such.

That is the BIG PICTURE for me and should another 911 type attack occur -- Expect worse.

Then you wrote:

"Now in reference to the prison abuse and your claim that 'WE Exposed It)...whose WE? Bush? Rumsfeld? Powell? Sanchez? Blair?
THE MEDIA EXPOSED DID!!!!!"

YOU ARE SO UNINFORMED !

Which "Media" was it ?
"Islamic" media ?

French Media ?

Any foreign media ?

NO !

It was AMERICAN MEDIA !

And how did the story break ?

The military was doing an investigation of the abuse months before, and under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (an American law) the AMERICAN MEDIA FOUND revealed it.

The military did not stop it, and they had no right to do so under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT, passed by the Congress of the United States.

And it would have come out anyway as Congress had already been looking into it, and the American Media follows the actions of our government.

So your "argument" has no merit. AND my statement stands "WE EXPOSED IT"

The only qualifier is "WE THE PEOPLE EXPOSED IT" And as a free society we brought it to the world?s attention.

And those "people" do not include the French, Islamic, or foreign media-- it was our military that brought to fore, in their own open investigation and it was our media that brought it to the public attention

Then you wrote:

"So my friend Mr. CallforJustice911 it is entirely upto you if you wish to argue over matters or be like a hollow head by attacking other religions with harsh statements like (Islamic Oil or Islam Oil)..."

How about this harsh statement to add to "Islamic Oil or Islam Oil"

They can turn that oil into food, most of which they get from the US.

I said it earlier and I say it now.

The day will come when we will not buy that oil from them. Read that Congressional report that I submitted for your perusal We are exploring fuel cells, and one of the first things that we will do is first eliminate our dependency on ?Islamic Oil.? We will buy from nations that will not exert influence over us. That day will come and they can sit and swelter in their barren deserts, knowing that they cannot exert influence over us by holding us over their ?Islamic oil barrel.?.

We should have taken over that entire region after WW I after we defeated the Ottoman Empire.

Things would have been a lot different had we done so.

Then you wrote:

"STUDY more is my advice to you...Islam just like any other religion does not teach to hate Americans or any faith...its just an emotional weapon used against Moslems to provoke them and in the bargain people like you become targets of it...
Does America or American teach people to hate other faiths???
I DONT THINK SO!!!"

Study, ha ! I have been around for a while, and I am college educated.

But one thing I do know about Islam. It is a bloody religion. It does teach hate, against "Infidels" and it is racist as well.

Racism is the reason that those "Islamics" of the Middle East would not lend help to the Moslems of Yugoslavia when Milosovich and his Serbian troops were embarked on genocide to eliminate Moslems from the landscape-- and why did the Mid Eastern Moslems look the other way ? Because they were EUROPEAN MOSLEMS and not of Mid Eastern origin.

And the Europeans sat there for years looking the other way while a genocide was occurring in their own back yards. (Guess they forgot the NAZI genocide)

It took the UNITED STATES to intervene and stop that genocide of Moslems.

So don't tell me about how that Islamic religion is not racist.

It is.

And what is being taught in the Massdras'es (Islamic Seminaries) is racist.

And they are the fomenters of radical Islam, one that is still fighting the Crusades that we are now at war with.

And yes, because of 911, the murders caused by murder bombers, and other atrocities, such as sawing off Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl's heads that they have committed...

I HATE THEM.

All radical Islamics that are bent on taking my home, my nation down in THEIR RACIST AMIMS OF HATE.

[callforjustice911]

To Sikandere and all,

This is today's al Queda terror attack in Saudi Arabia in which 16 people of many nationalities have died thus far.

I would like you to see the terms that these al Qaeda bastards use in the execution of their murders.

Among other things these sub humans said:

"They (terroists under al Qaeda) have so far managed to kill or wound a number of crusaders, God's enemies... competing to meet martyrdom, eager to fight God's enemies -- the Jews, the crusaders and their stooges among the apostate rulers -- as their hearts grieve for what has befallen their Muslim brethren in Palestine, Afghanistan (news - web sites), Iraq (news - web sites) and everywhere,"

They have declared a religious war on everyone outside of their twisted beliefs-- INCLUDING MODERATE ISLAMIC BELIEVERS.

This is a test for the Saudi's, and every moderate member of the Islamic faith to make a stand... Capture these people and quickly execute ALL OF THEM. And I hope that the Saudis do just that, swiftly cut their heads off which is the method of execution in Saudi Arabia, not like the hack job that these bastards did to Nick Berg or Daniel Pearl (though they deserve the same hack job) These murders with brains in the Middle Ages, killers of innocent people need to exterminated. Maybe now the Saudis will get on the point for the War on Terror when President Bush said, as black and white as it can get. "You are either with us or with the terroists."

These al-Qaeda scum, enemies of civilzation, need to be removed from the good graces of humanity.

Need any more proof be supplied to warrant full total war on these individuals ?

Here is relevant parts of the AP article as it appeard today at Yahoo:

----

Saudi forces poised to storm hostage-takers after attacks in oil city

2 hours, 35 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AFP to My Yahoo!

AL-KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia (AFP) - Saudi security forces were poised to
storm a building in the oil city of Al-Khobar, where suspected
Islamist extremists were holding hostages after a series of
spectacular attacks that left around a dozen people dead.

AFP Photo

AFP
Slideshow: Al-Qaeda Militants Storm Saudi Oil Complex

"Security forces are preparing to storm the building where gunmen are
holding the hostages" at The Oasis compound, a security man at the
site told AFP as residents were evacuated from the facility.

Gunfire and a blast were heard several hours after security forces
besieged a building in the compound where the gunmen were holding an
undetermined number of captives following a shooting spree in the
complex and two oil-related facilities.

One American was among the dead in the carnage, prompting the US
embassy to renew a call it made in mid-April for US citizens to leave
Saudi Arabia, where a series of terror attacks have killed around 65
people and wounded hundreds in the past year.

The wave of terror has been blamed on sympathizers of the Al-Qaeda
network.

An e-mail statement purportedly from the group claimed responsibility
for Saturday's assaults, but it its authenticity could not be
independently verified.

Saudi crown prince and de facto ruler Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz said
around 10 Saudis and foreigners were killed in the attacks by members
of a "deviant group."

But it was feared that the toll, which various sources said stood at
around a dozen, could rise if security forces storm the six-storey
building where the hostages are being held.

The Dutch foreign ministry said three Dutch nationals had been freed
after being taken hostage.

In Stockholm, the Swedish foreign ministry said it could not confirm
reports by an employee at the compound that a Swede was among the
fatalities.

Three Western nationals said they escaped from the complex and had
seen the body of a woman drenched in blood.

The US embassy in Riyadh said one American was among the dead.

Western diplomatic sources said a Briton was also slain, but British
diplomats had yet to confirm it.

An official at the Arab Petroleum Investment Corp. (Apicorp), one of
the targeted facilities, said two Saudi guards were killed, in
addition to a Pakistani and a Filipino.

Apicorp, an arm of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting
Countries, later said three of its employees were killed but did not
give their nationalities.

A nearby "Petroleum Center" where oil firms have offices, also came
under attack.

An Egyptian boy was killed when he was caught in the crossfire. An
Egyptian diplomatic source named the 10-year-old as Rami Samir al-
Ghunaimi.

Witnesses said four Saudi security men were also killed in a shootout
with the gunmen Saturday morning at The Oasis.

The interior ministry said "a number of citizens and (foreign)
residents were killed or wounded" after four gunmen "shot
indiscriminately at the premises of a company and a residential
compound in Al-Khobar" at 7:30 am (0430 GMT).

The gunmen "then entered a residential compound, where they were
besieged by security forces in a building. They are being dealt with
in accordance with the requirements of the situation," the brief
statement said.

A Lebanese man reported to have been taken hostage said he and his
family were locked in their home several hours after the attacks
began.

"At 9:00 am (0600 GMT), a gunman knocked at the door of our villa,
checked whether we were foreigners (Westerners), and ordered us to
stay at home, saying he and his comrades were outside," Abdel Salam
Hakawati told AFP by telephone.

Hakawati, his wife and son, in addition to two other Lebanese
nationals, were earlier reported by diplomats to have been taken
hostage and later released.

"The heroic mujahedeen in the Jerusalem Squad were able, by the grace
of God, to raid the locations of American companies ... specializing
in oil and exploration activities and which are plundering the
Muslims' resources, on Saturday morning," said a statement signed by
the "Al-Qaeda Organization in the Arabian Peninsula."

"They have so far managed to kill or wound a number of crusaders,
God's enemies," it said.

The e-mail said the assault targeted the facilities "affiliated to
the US occupation company Halliburton" and praised the attackers
as "an honorable example of Muslim youth in the Arabian Peninsula."

There are many like them, "competing to meet martyrdom, eager to
fight God's enemies -- the Jews, the crusaders and their stooges
among the apostate rulers -- as their hearts grieve for what has
befallen their Muslim brethren in Palestine, Afghanistan (news - web
sites), Iraq (news - web sites) and everywhere," it said.

Al-Qaeda and affiliates have often claimed responsibility in similar
statements for the past year's campaign of terror.

A statement purported to be from the network's chief in Saudi Arabia,
Abdul Aziz al-Muqrin, said an Al-Qaeda cell carried out the May 1
shooting rampage at a petrochemical plant in the port of Yanbu that
left six Westerners dead.

As in the aftermath of the Yanbu carnage, Saturday's bloodshed seemed
likely to provoke a new surge in oil prices that had already closed
higher Friday amid fears of unwelcome developments over the weekend.

It followed a statement purportedly from Muqrin and posted on an
Islamist website Thursday that urged followers to wage an urban
guerrilla war of assassinations, kidnappings and bombings.

The authenticity of the statement, which appeared to be several
months old, could not be confirmed...

(See the entire AP article at the Yahoo home page)

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
After a week of on going view point from both of us...i would like to sum it up here, that i believe i am fully entitled to my opinion as you are - EQUALLY...
I never in any of my conversations would ever support what people who believe in TERROR do...this includes both sides...
My only argument is that, whatever people who believe in TERROR do are the ones who DO NOT i repeat DO NOT represent ISLAM...neither do they reflect CHRISTIANITY or HINDUISM...
No religion gives an individual any right to harm or kill another for his or her personal liking...
To generalize and believe that the whole community believes in bloodshed and war is obscene...
This is a MEDIA WAR...
I am sure that you and your family too might come have come across people of different faiths and would never judged them from the 9:00PM news bulletins...We are much bigger than that and thats one of the reasons that separates us from the scum...
Kill One youre a murderer / Kill a THOUSAND and youre a conqueror...
THIS IS 2004 for you and me...
Hope i have not offended you and anyone else in the bargain...
I wish to have another word with you on another day as more matters unfold...next time we shall talk as people who support freedom and humanity NOT religion or nationality...
Goodluck
Sikandere.....

[calforjustice911]

Sikandere,

No beef with your argument regarding "religion."

The problem with this war on terrorism is that it is not a "media war." It is a war of religion that these Islamic persons "bastards" have declared on us, civilization and the world at large.

It is however a "media war" in so far as it is the first war of the 21st century where it is covered by the media in ways that no other war has ever been covered. And in this even the media becomes an element in this war of religion. (Which it is, though our leaders have said repeatedly that we are not at war with Islam).

Case in point-- Look at some of the radical Islmaic media reports and see the religious terms so freely used against us.

It is a war of religion with the radical Islamics who have declared "holy war" against anyone not of their brand of Islam.

They are bastards of their religion. And the Islamic nations that have harbored them need to divorce them from the faith. These "people" (bastards) have declared "Holy War" against "Jews, Christians, Crusaders, apostate Islamic rulers, Infidels, those not of Islam (anyone not of their version of it)." On and on they go with their rants, all the while killing thousands of people in their acts of terror. (911 being the worst) And this recent attack in Saudi Arabia should drive the point further home.

These terrorists need to be stopped, that is eliminated from the likes of humanity. Their doctrines of hate have no compromise built into them. They firmly believe and it is their choice that to die is martyrdom in their misguided cause with heaven and rewards following.

Well, with that "choice" that they give us, it is the obligation of civilized society to oblige, and eliminate them.

War is tragic-- no doubt about it. It is a sad thing when humanity is faced with it.

But in this case, civilization is confronted with no other choice, for these enemies of civilization offer no other choice.

I hope that this war can be minimized by moderate Islamic countries taking a strong stand against these terrorists, who wish for Armageddon. Moderate Islamic leaders must shut down their radical ultra fundamentalist Islamic seminaries, arrest and disband these groups before they further plunge the world to a deeper catastrophe.

[Sikandere]

Callforjustice911,
i agree with last para of your comment, which is exactly what i meant in different words...
With reference to the word 'Bastards' so frequently used word in your comments:
Its the job of a person to understand and identify the cause before the culprit...
Please read this as an idividual not as a person with XYZ nationality:
When a group of students in a university start a gang and disturb the discipline, the faculty either suspends or throws them out of the institution...
Nobody shuts the university down...
Neither any ABCD has a right to say that this institution is the cause of GANG WAR in the city or it only gives admissions (harbors) disturbing individuals...
I hope you understand too.....

[Sikandere]

Callforjustice911,
i agree with last para of your comment, which is exactly what i meant in different words...
With reference to the word 'Bastards' so frequently used word in your comments:
Its the job of a person to understand and identify the cause before the culprit...
Please read this as an idividual not as a person with XYZ nationality:
When a group of students in a university start a gang and disturb the discipline, the faculty either suspends or throws them out of the institution...
Nobody shuts the university down...
Neither any ABCD has a right to say that this institution is the cause of GANG WAR in the city or it only gives admissions (harbors) disturbing individuals...
I hope you understand too.....

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

Just when I thought that I was dealing with one that was rational, you wrote this:

"With your last comment i feel every second person in this world believes in guns except America ofcourse...
Mr. Bush said, "EITHER UR WITH US OR UR ONE OF THEM (TERRORISTS)"...thats what he exactly said...
Wow 'Mr.CallforJustice911'...I have never heard of a better option given to a nation...
What if a nation cannot afford to go to WAR? Could be for its economic or political scenario in their respective countries, then what..does this mean they are with the terrorists?"

CANNOT "AFFORD" TO GO TO WAR ?

On our Memorial Day we Americans think about that. NO NATION WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT CAN "AFFORD" TO GO TO WAR.

We could not "afford" it on December 7th 1941 when we were attacked, nor could we "afford" it when we were attacked on 9/11/2001.

War is often caused when another nation thinks this way, thinking that THEY can "afford" to go to war. (Ask the Japanese about whether it was "affordable" for them to have waged war against the United States) AND DAMNIT-- WE WERE ATTACKED ON 9/11/2001 !

Can't you get that through your thick skull ?

We cannot afford war, and it was thrust on us, by these Islmaic bastards bent on their religious war of destruction against not only us but the west, and western civilzation in general.

We have no other choice but to fight back.

There is no other "cheek to turn" in this small world, friend. You can turn your cheeks all you want, but in the end you and your kind will get your butts pounded into the dirt.

We are ar war, and this war will expand in scope until that day when these Islmaic bastards are eliminated from the graces of mankind.

That is where it is at, just as it was in some of the more recent wars that our world was involved in. (Thank God, and the 20 millions of Russians, and 400,000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Brits that lost their lives to rid the world of the NAZI's).

IT TAKES WAR TO DO THAT.

History shows, turn the other cheek in a situation where war is declared against your nation, and you will be buried.

Your statement is so profoundly stupid it boggles my mind. "if a nation cannot afford to go to WAR"
you wrote.

This ranks as one of the most idiotic statements that I have seen in print-- And you are the author of it.

And yes, any nation that harbors terrorists bent on global destruction, enemies of civilzation that commit acts like 911 or worse are our enemies. And we the people of the UNITED STATES will in our defense take action against those nations. And believe me, we are watching Saudi Arabia right now. We are looking to see what they will to to round up their own home-grown terrorists spawned in their radical Islamic seminaries.

We can fight a war with arms, but we can also exert a tremendous amount of economic power against such states that choose to harbor terroists. And if that fails, then arms is the only option.

The rest of what you wrote is a mish-mash of your stupid opinions that do not even warrant a response. In them your ignorance is revealed with no remarks from me.

[callforjustice911]

Sikendere,

I strongly disagree with your last statement made in your last sentences.

"When a group of students in a university start a gang and disturb the discipline, the faculty either suspends or throws them out of the institution...
Nobody shuts the university down...
Neither any ABCD has a right to say that this institution is the cause of GANG WAR in the city or it only gives admissions (harbors) disturbing individuals...
I hope you understand too....."

We are talking about nations here, not a small group of individuals, or even cities and certainly not a faculty of a university. This is about nations being put to task regarding foreign policy.

Remember President Bush gave a warning after 911 ?

He was adamant that nations that harbor terrorists, and do nothing to rid them are with the terrorists. And they will be dealt with accordingly.

Saudi Arabia has been confronted with these terrorist bastards, and that is what they are, bastards-- of their own faith. I can use even more powerful words to demean them more, and if I were young enough I would be on a battlefield fighing them with arms. But I think bastards suits them well.

(Remember this is a religious war that these radicals have created and declared, and as descendants of Hagar, the illigitmate relation to Abraham these Islamic descendants are "bastards" as seen by one that has now not been endeared to their form of "Islam")

It is the obligation that the Saudis rid their nation of these people otherwise--- we know what will happen.

Are the Saudis with the terrorists or not ?

That is the question for any nation that harbors terrorists.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
With your last comment i feel every second person in this world believes in guns except America ofcourse...
Mr. Bush said, "EITHER UR WITH US OR UR ONE OF THEM (TERRORISTS)"...thats what he exactly said...
Wow 'Mr.CallforJustice911'...I have never heard of a better option given to a nation...
What if a nation cannot afford to go to WAR? Could be for its economic or political scenario in their respective countries, then what..does this mean they are with the terrorists?
On the other hand if a country is against terror and their causes...then WHAT?
Oh lemme think!! Lets go to WAR together...ATTACK a WEAKER opponent and have a 'Feel Good Factor' in our own country...
Example: Pakistan
Never heard of such manipulation...
Create domestic violence and chaos in smaller countries / Exploit internal sensitive issues such as religion vs. religion / get them to destroy their own economy and send them back to stone age...and if they still have some firepower left then diffuse that by an attack after forming global coalition and say that 'People we are going to WAR'...after you have had semi control over a country's weaker links then lets put our own puppet (Hamid Karzai) in place so that we can run it the way it suits the cause...
The sad part is that the third world countries buy this BULLSHIT everytime...and some others are given the weird option such as:
EITHER UR WITH US OR UR ONE OF THEM".
If you refuse you get bombed and are called the scum...If you go with a yes you face civil war (e.g. Pakistan: P.Musharraf)...
So dude this is exactly what THEY refer to as HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD". Booom weaker goes weakest Stronger goes Strongest...But what the hell we are after all the World Police and whateva...

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
I dont know if you really do not wish to reply to the 'mish mash' or maybe you dont seem to have an answer for the political manipulation that you refer to as WAR in self defense...
Mish Mash is what people of Iraq, coalition troops and the almost 1000 US soldiers who have already lost their lives have faced and will continue to do so till terrorists end their WAR on TERROR.....
Fighting back when attacked is fair enough...BUT PLEASE...retaliation should be focused at the attacker...
Dont use this as an excuse to get your hands on every possible chance of greed to rule...
You are right...NO NATION can afford war...but i didnt know you too have the habit of reading between the lines...i was referring to economic issues rather than moral that you have highlighted with your creativity...Only the Americans have the right to defend when attacked?????
The people of Iraq who are fighting the troops did not travel to US or plan for the 9/11 attacks!!
Identify your enemy and crush them...Dont think the world is at your disposal...as only a small group of angry people seem to be giving sleepless nights to you already...
US and their Blair Bitch project is a failure have NO RIGHT abslutely NO RIGHT to disturb a civilian and his family just because he or she hapens to live in IRAQ or AFGHANISTAN...
Create a difference between yourself and those who put 9/11 as a day that no one wishes ever happened...
Dont end up with another Vietnam fight back at your hands!!
You may still not reply if you feel youre out of words which you refer to as LOGIC!!

[callforjustice911]

You wrote:

"I dont know if you really do not wish to reply to the 'mish mash' or maybe you dont seem to have an answer for the political manipulation that you refer to as WAR in self defense...
Mish Mash is what people of Iraq, coalition troops and the almost 1000 US soldiers who have already lost their lives have faced and will continue to do so till terrorists end their WAR on TERROR.....
Fighting back when attacked is fair enough...BUT PLEASE...retaliation should be focused at the attacker..."

My reply to the above. In the War on Terror the "attacker" (Islamic radical bastards) are not defined because they are hidden and supported by Islamic nations. And Iraq was one of the supporters of terrorists-- they still are and such are the ones giving us problems there. For many years Iraq was supplying murder bombers against Israel. We cannot, nor will the people of the United States wait for another attack from a state that harbors terrorists. Afghanistan and Iraq were the first two we decided to deal with, and after we are finished there, we can and probably will advance and deal with some of the others that need to be dealt with.

As for your statement where you said, "almost 1000 US soldiers who have already lost their lives have faced and will continue to do so till terrorists end their WAR on TERROR....."

Terrorists end their War on Terror.... ?

ANOTHER STUPID STATEMENT !

We are not terrorists, the People of the US are not in league with the Islamic bastards that ARE TERRORISTS. And we will not stop the War on Terror until these Islamic bastards quit blowing up buildings, killing innocents in murder bombings, expand their capacity to wage murder on a massive scale. And since they refuse to back away from their policies, the War on Terror, which is a result of THEIR policies will continue-- till they are eliminated as a threat to the world.

"Political manipulation" Ha another stupid statement. Tell that to the dead of 911, and their families. Tell that to the victims of murder bombings. Tell that to the families of those victims...

You will get your "answer" there.

This war will cost more than what we have lost thus far. We lost 400,000 in WW II, and that took a surprise attack to get our outrage up and our isolationism out. Vietnam is no comparison to the "War on Terror." I am sick of hearing uninformed and outsiders who have not had their country attacked making that comparison. It has no merit when the justification for response is an outrageous act of terror. Vietnam was a "political manipulation" and the people of the US protested and did not buy it, even though we lost 58,000 men in it. (Incidentally, it was the FRENCH that started that war, fought it for 10 years themselves and we took over after they left).

But this War on Terror is very different. The "political manipulation" is not there and any such notion is overshadowed by 911.

Then you wrote:

"Dont use this as an excuse to get your hands on every possible chance of greed to rule...
You are right...NO NATION can afford war...but i didnt know you too have the habit of reading between the lines...i was referring to economic issues rather than moral that you have highlighted with your creativity...Only the Americans have the right to defend when attacked?????
The people of Iraq who are fighting the troops did not travel to US or plan for the 9/11 attacks!!"

All nations that are attacked have the right to respond and defend themselves. Iraq was a major supporter of Islamic terrorist bastards. (Ask Israelis about that) They surreptitiously supported terrorists with funds and the means to carry out their attacks. And there is evidence that Iraqi agents met with 911 planners in Hungary before the attacks of that date.

Terrorists supported by rogue nations, like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and others will be dealt with. Their actions will be exposed and if they refuse to eliminate these Islamic terrorists from their ranks they will be dealt with. That is the policy of the United States now, and it will continue as such till the War on Terror ends. And I have addressed several times that there are ways of dealing with these nations before hand with economics. But the choice to fight with arms is the last resort.

Iraq had 12 years to comply with UN obligations, and they refused. The UN ("Axis of Weasels" (cowards)) would not do what was required and thus the US took the responsibility that the spineless Europeans would not.

And we will finish it. And if Iraq spirals down into civil war-- Good. Let them destroy themselves rather than us. We should pick a side that represents the least threat to us and let them fight it out. (that is not US policy, but it is my opinion).

Then you wrote:

"Identify your enemy and crush them...Dont think the world is at your disposal...as only a small group of angry people seem to be giving sleepless nights to you already...
US and their Blair Bitch project is a failure have NO RIGHT abslutely NO RIGHT to disturb a civilian and his family just because he or she hapens to live in IRAQ or AFGHANISTAN...
Create a difference between yourself and those who put 9/11 as a day that no one wishes ever happened..."

As to identifying those responsible-- we have-- rogue nations that support terrorism. Iraq being one of them. We are now looking hard at Saudi Arabia as to whether they are serious about eliminating their home grown al Qaeda terrorists.

As for disturbing civilians in what you called the "US and their Blair Bitch project"...

What do you think WAR IS ? A party? A polite invitation by a nation to come on in and arrest or kill ONLY those that ARE responsible for crimes against your country?

You are an idiot... War steps on everyone, innocent or not. War is against nations and between nations, and the tragic thing about war is that civilians who are innocent are often in the way.

That is just the way it is.

As for 911, you can wish that it never happened, and so can we-- but it DID happen-- for the reasons that these Islamic terrorist bastards are bent on bringing the United States down. And they are bent on destroying civilization as we know it.

They have made their aims clear, and so have we.

The War on Terror will end when there are no more terrorists of the 911 type.

Then you lastly wrote:

"Dont end up with another Vietnam fight back at your hands!!
You may still not reply if you feel youre out of words which you refer to as LOGIC!!"

You don't have to worry about this being another "Vietnam. As I previously noted, that was a war that the FRENCH started and we got involved for political reasons during the Cold War. But 911 is the HOT reason for this War on Terror.

As for me being out of words, forget that, you don't know me that well. My sharp "Logic" has no limits, when it comes to arguing with fools.

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

You wrote:

"Calling me an Idiot or a Fool does not help your point which to me and many others is just another desperate person trying to make himself believe that Islam is a religion of MILITANCY..."

Your stupid words prove it.

And as for Islam, that religion has done NOTHING to endear itself to me. The fact of the matter is that it is a religion of militancy. That is what we are facing right now-- as in 911, and every murder bombing that goes on. All of these are the extreme radical Islamics that have taken the Koran to heart. They look at everyone outside of their beliefs as "infidels" "apostates" and so on and so on...

Pretty militant if you ask me, and that is backed up not by what I say BUT BY THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE THAT THEY ARE DOING !

Then you wrote:

"Having read all your arguments i have noticed you enjoy copying what i write and then answering to each para...i like the detail of breakdown...but to be honest you only answer to what you want to or maybe answer those lines only which suit your limited know how...
Read my previous msgs to you...i like your over looking habit...
Lets have the answers to these, which i already have asked earlier, (please refer above if you wish to):"

I will "hit" all of your stupid words in total then. (I am arguing with a nutcase.)

You wrote:

"Who led America to Iraq in 1991?"

The United Nations and a colalition of many nations including AMERICA.

"Who created Osama Bin Laden?"

God did, but the devil has his soul

"Who is Aamil Kansi? (Scotland Yard killings)"

Another Islamic bastard that is in bondage to the devil, like Osama Bin Laden.

"Who is Yosuf Ramzi? (Oklahoma Bombing)"

Dito, same as Osama and Kansi

"Who was the blind 75 yr old man captured in Pakistan 1997 by FBI (US Embassy Karachi killings)?"

Same Islamic bastard as is Osama, Kanzi, and Ramzi.

"Why did the weapons inspector 1 in Iraq commit suicide?"

Humm... Don't know... But being that this is a "leading" question, then maybe you should provide the answer.

"Why did the weapons inspector 2 resign from office?"

Because he knew the chips were going to come down. It is wise for one to get out of the way when war is coming.

"Name one major issue that UN has ever solved?"

ONE-- Till now it has intervened to prevent a nuclear war. I don't know how old you are but I lived through the entire Cold War. And in the brinkmanship of our relations with the Soviet Union we nearly came to nuclear exchages several times. Believe me the UN was involved in averting a world disaster during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and in I think the 1973 Arab Israeli War. Also the UN does oversee relief for nations that have endured natura disasters. Also in cases where UN troops are needed such as the very recent Serbian conflicts in the former Yugoslavia (where European moslems were being slaughered by Serbians and your native Middle East Muslims looked the other way {talk about racist-- they take the cake] )

But, let me guess, before you put your fingers to the keyboard, as you know the answer already...

AMERICA !

It is all America's fault. We are the "bad guys" in YOUR'RE estimation, right ?

But the fact of the matter is you are wrong. Your knowledge of the facts is lacking.

Then you wrote:

"I an sure that the above qs would be fine for now...I am looking for answers and i hope you have them for me and for fools like me..."

You already know the answer to your leading quesiton... AMERICA is behind it. That is what your media warped "grey area" mind is at.

Then you wrote:

"Please do not refer again and again to your WWII passion coz it has nothing to do with this..."

Oh, but it certainly does. War Criminals that is what these Islamic BASTARDS are. And they should be hanged in public like the war ciminals of the last world war when the likes of Hitler wished to control the world.

And these Islamic BASTARDS-- the ilk of which saw off mens heads, blow up buildings with hundreds to many thousands of innocents within, blow up buses with innocent women, men and children, so on and so forth all the while declaring that all infidels are to be killed. They declare Jihad (Holy War) on what they say are "Crusaders"...

These sick individuals have minds spawned back in the dark ages. And that is what we are fighting here. The war is a world war. WW III, and the stakes are just as high or even higher than they were in WW II.

Then it was a fight against sadistic NAZI racists that wished to exterminate Jews, and delegate untermenchen (anyone less than German) to slavery. Then there was Japan cutting up all of Asia in there notion of the "Greater Co-prosperity Sphere" and there was Italy that had dibs on all of Africa and parts of the Middle East.

Thank the True God, that we the saviours of civilization as we know it stood in the way of those aims. 20 million Russians, 400,000 Americans, hundreds of thousands of Brits, and multudes of others from many nations gave their lives to stop the aims of the Axis Powers.

50 million died to prevent Hitler and his two allies from taking over the world.

And now, we are fighing again. A new war over the same thing. That is a radical racist group that is threatening civilization as we know it. And they are being protected by terrorist sponsoring nations, such as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, and other Islamic nations.

We are watching.

And we will act to rid the world of these people that represent a threat not only to us but every freedom loving person in the world.

So, the stakes in this war are just as high and profound as they were in WW II.

Then you wrote:

"As for asking the victims of 911...you have no idea who i am and from where i belong...Rather i would like you to come out of your hole (US) and visit Palestine and ask there families...they have a fresh 911 everyday..."

You actually would invite me to that SHIT HOLE in your Palestine. I would go to Israel first, and leave the Palestinians to the hogs-- Killers-- Hamas, and the murder bombers that the Palistinians harbor. Israel has every right to protect itself agaist that ilk. And they should certainly build that wall to wall them out of Israel. The racist Palastinins want the destruction of Israel, and the elimination of Jews.

And you wonder WHY Israeli's feel the way they do ?

DUH !

Then you wrote this:

"DO NOT change channels when you see an individual with a gun in civilian clothes on the news...Ask yourself!! WHY WHY did he pick that gun up?????"

Huh ? What in the hell are you writing about ?

Then you wrote:

"Calling me an idiot and a fool tells me how angry you are with yourself with not being able to do anything about things your way..."

HA HAAAA Heee heee...

You ever read Mark Twain ?

He said someting about a fool proving that he is a fool buy opening his mouth and removing all doubt.

Well, you have done the same, not by talking but by typing on a keyboard.

Get a grip.

Then you wrote:

"Please Do NOT hesitate in answering those questions in detail...to remind you they are 8 in number..."

I did, go to the above.

So... I answered EVERY ONE of your stupid leading questions.

But again, YOUR answer is America is behind it all.

So, tuche'-- you need not say that.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Its so funny how its so easy to piss you off with just a few questions...
Your answers do not make any sense...
As for my answer to every thing is not America nor do i hate American people...
Your age through witnessing the Cold War does reflect your state of mind, and may i add that your answers SHOUT OUT LOUD that all you know is NOTHINGGGG!!!!!
And now for your attitude and language that you use in desperation...
Stating that someones religion (ISLAM) teaches militancy or bloodshed is nothing but a racist comment and it just goes to show how FULL OF SHIT YOU ARE...
Oh wait a minute!!!now you might call me a Moslem after the French and Palestinian nationalities awarded to me by you!!
Keep guessing BoneHead
A person who is so fond of WAR and feels its cool to step on the weaker and frequently calls it rules of war...CAN GO TO HELL!!
You will be the first one running for your life when it comes to your doorstep...All your love for humanity and country would be wiped out, all you would care is what to do with your own life...
People like you are such bad examples for Americans in and around the world...
WHAT A SHAME YOU ARE FOR US!!!

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

It is I who "nailed you"

Did not like my anwsers to your eight stupid leading questions--

Ha Ha haaa...

Got you.

Islam is a religion of militancy. And unless the Islamic "moderates" who have brains take control of the radicals that have none taking the Koran literally, the world will plunge into a broader war than it is in now.

As for your statements that your are French, Palestinian, whatever, those were AWARDED BY YOURSELF in response to my questions. Look back at your responses and you will find your "affirmations"

You can play your "guess where I am" game all you want, but the fact is that your stupid questions and ridiculous ideas betray where you mind is in that "grey area" that your head is in.

(I never considered that light could penetrate beyond an asshole)

You are a very foolish man...

And then you write:

"A person who is so fond of WAR and feels its cool to step on the weaker and frequently calls it rules of war...CAN GO TO HELL!!
You will be the first one running for your life when it comes to your doorstep...All your love for humanity and country would be wiped out, all you would care is what to do with your own life...
"

If so, you and your Islamic ilk will find out how deep my love of humanity and country is...

Now come on Islamic bastards, find me, and you will find one with arms waiting to send your Islamic bastards to hell where they belong. You assume too much about my intentions. You think I am fond of war? The fact is I am not. But understand this... I will defend my life, my home, my country. I will not run, but fully intend to fight if your bastards come to my door, or attempt to take my country down in their twisted religious war that they declared on us."

Then you wrote:

"People like you are such bad examples for Americans in and around the world...
WHAT A SHAME YOU ARE FOR US!!!"

And from what you wrote in the avove, so now am I to "assume" that you are an American?

The fact is that your statements posted here are a shame to all Americans if in fact you ARE an American.

If so, I would call you a traitor in this War on Terror, for you are in league with the terrorists, the Islamic bastards that saw off infidel heads, blow up buildings with inncocent men, women and children within, on and on in their murders all in the name and glory of Allah...

What a vicious satanic god this is.

Such a god is not my God the God who goes by the name "I AM"

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Calling me an Idiot or a Fool does not help your point which to me and many others is just another desperate person trying to make himself believe that Islam is a religion of MILITANCY...
Having read all your arguments i have noticed you enjoy copying what i write and then answering to each para...i like the detail of breakdown...but to be honest you only answer to what you want to or maybe answer those lines only which suit your limited know how...
Read my previous msgs to you...i like your over looking habit...
Lets have the answers to these, which i already have asked earlier, (please refer above if you wish to):
Who led America to Iraq in 1991?
Who created Osama Bin Laden?
Who is Aamil Kansi? (Scotland Yard killings)
Who is Yosuf Ramzi? (Oklahoma Bombing)
Who was the blind 75 yr old man captured in Pakistan 1997 by FBI (US Embassy Karachi killings)?
Why did the weapons inspector 1 in Iraq commit suicide?
Why did the weapons inspector 2 resign from office?
Name one major issue that UN has ever solved?
I an sure that the above qs would be fine for now...I am looking for answers and i hope you have them for me and for fools like me...
Please do not refer again and again to your WWII passion coz it has nothing to do with this...
As for asking the victims of 911...you have no idea who i am and from where i belong...Rather i would like you to come out of your hole (US) and visit Palestine and ask there families...they have a fresh 911 everyday...
As for Saudi Arabia...i wouldnt worry about them, as it doesnt suit the US agenda at the moment...
DO NOT change channels when you see an individual with a gun in civilian clothes on the news...Ask yourself!! WHY WHY did he pick that gun up?????
Calling me an idiot and a fool tells me how angry you are with yourself with not being able to do anything about things your way...
Please Do NOT hesitate in answering those questions in detail...to remind you they are 8 in number...
Thanks

[callforjustice911]

Mr "Sikandere,"

Re-read all of your posts. In them you equivocate about the Islamic bastards that did 911.

Then you also posted things like "Go to Palestine... they have 911's every day" THAT leads me to consider that you FAVOR retaliatory 911 attacks against the US by that.

So who is "retarded" here ?

You go back and forth with regards to acts of terror.

On one hand you write that you are against it, but then the big "BUT" comes in.... Such as the "go to Palestine where 911's happen every day..."

"WAR FOR PEACE" What a stupid "chiche," a 1960's Anti-War Movement statement... No basis in the realm of reality.

The fact of the matter is that there is no 'peace' unless there are no aggressors. WAR is the result of agressive action taken by States, and in this case States that support terror-- Afganistan and Iraq. The Taliban under Omar supported Osama Bin Laden, and that was the reason that we "carpet bombed" Afganistan. And now we are in Iraq, and will go from there-- TILL ALL OF THE STINKING ISLAMC BASTARDS THAT DID, OR ARE RELATED TO 911 ARE ROOTED OUT AND DESTROYED !

You wrote:
"All i stand by is that 911 and other bombings around the world are NO DIFFERENT than the carpet bombings in Afghanistan and Iraq...In all occasions civilians have heavily suffered..."

There is the "but" again.

There is a difference, but it seems that you are just too dense or dumb to see it.

1) 911 was an unprovoked attack

2) Bombing Afganistan, and Iraq are a direct and deliberate result of the 911 attack.

The logic here is that if 911 never happened, then the US response against Afrganistan and Iraq would not have happened.

So the bottom line is that the ISLAMIC BASTARDS that did this have brought this upon themselves and the civilians of the countries that support their actions.

That is the Logic of this war.

As for the validity of "War for Peace" you ask it as question, as if the two are opposing one another.

In this case, the case of war sparked by cowardly attacks. The option of this war was inflicted on us, thE epeople of the United States, by those Islamic bastards that you seem to be so fond of.

We were and are given no other option than war.

And "War for Peace" will happen.

War first.

Peace after--

When everyone, especially those that stared it are sick of war and sue for peace.

And as for the "religious" element of it, that is the very reason submitted to us for this war by your Islamic bastards.

They, if you are not able to read their statements, write, that their aim is to destroy the West, the "crusaders" "infidels" "Jews"... on and on in THEIR "Holy War" against anyone outside fo their faith.

That is where the "religion" of it comes in. And that is, besides the 911 attack, and other attacks, WHY I distain their religion so much.

Their religion stinks-- it advocates violence against innocents, and anyone outside of their twisted beliefs. And what makes it worse is that they are going out of their shit hole countries and are inflicting their autocratic aims on those that are not members of their stinking "faith."

They have made it clear that their aim is to take control of the world, converting it to their twisted notions of Islam.

In this their aims of controlling the world are no different than those aims of Axis Powers in WW II. The only difference is the means of accomplishing that aim, terror and the "religion" of it. The end result though is controlling the world in their self proclaimed "crusade."

And that is a cause for war.

And when the war is done, and these Islamic bastards are defeated, peace will come.

Plain and simple.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Are you retarded Mr?????
How many times have i written to you that I DO NOT support the acts of TERROR...may that be by any twisted head Iraqi or American etc etc...
All i stand by is that 911 and other bombings around the world are NO DIFFERENT than the carpet bombings in Afghanistan and Iraq...In all occasions civilians have heavily suffered...
Only the Time, Place, and the form of attacks seem different to people...
I have repeatedly mentioned people by names who are the problem creators unlike your continous attack on a community or religion as a whole...
WAR FOR PEACE...
Never heard of such twisted agenda.....

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

You wrote:

"Wish it were that plain and simple..."

It is. It is just that you are too stupid to see it.

You wrote:

"Let see what you have to say this time...
Trust me I dont even have to go through all what you write coz honestly its the same DAMN thing in different words...
To begin with your comments as to Afghanistan and Iraq both were and are a reply to 911 as a US retaliation and 911 itself was an unprovoked attack...I would again suggest PLEASE refer to what i have been saying earlier...
This issue of US foreign policy and the 1991 attacks on Iraq plus the habit of poking their noses in outside matters every time by the US have resulted in such horrific retaliations. Many died in 1991 in IRAQ which comes much before 2001 Sept 11..."

GAWD-- you are so dense. 1991 war on Iraq was BECAUSE OF IRAQ'S INVASION OF KUWAIT. Saddam was told by the free nations of the world to get his troops out of that country. The UN issued a mandate to Iraq. The bottom line was get out of Kuwait or it is war. He refused and a international coalition of forces were assembled and he was by the force of arms kicked out. (We should have gone all the way to Bagdad and finished him off then). Then the UN imposed sanctions because of his threat to the region with his weapons programs.

That is the reason for the first Iraq war in 1991.

Now, Osama and his band of bastards took offense that we the one of the coalition LIBERATORS of Kuwait were in Saudi Arabia with bases to protect the region. Bin Ladan and his brotherhood of bastards wanted the US (infidels) out of his "Holy Land"-- hence one of Bin Laden and his murdering bastards attacks of 2001.

Plain and simple history... THAT YOU CANNOT SEE.

Then you wrote:

"Before you copy and paste this let me tell you that i am stating facts and NOT supporting any extreme factors of survival taken up by terrorists..."

The "facts" you have not stated in ANY of your posts. And your stand on terroism and been ambiguous at best. Now that you are unequivocal on it fine... But I wonder what your "but" will be.

"As for you going to Palestine...PLEASE again refer to the previous comments which i have typed...
I NEVER mentioned that I support Hisbulallah or any other martyr brigades...I only spoke and mentioned about a common incident in Plaestine TODAY where a 3 yr old girl was shot by Israeli forces and I asked for a justification to that...To which you term as Collateral damage..."

THERE IS THE "BUT"

Tit for tat in your eyes. That is not what war is. Civilians die in war. It is a fact. There is no way that armies in conflict can selectively fight only soldiers of the opposing sides. War does not work that way.

And that is the horrific tragedy of war. Our advisaries DO NOT CARE WHO THE KILL. They make it very clear in their "holy war crusade" that they intend to kill as many American "infidels" as they can. Four million or more is what Bin Laden and his murdering bastards intend-- And that includes civilians. So..

There you have it. The reason that we are engaged with them. It is their choice not ours.

And as for the Israeli's they have EVERY RIGHT to engage their enemy in war as their enemy has no compulsion in sending their murder bombers into their cities and blowing themselves up killing any and all civilians around them. Women, children and men.

"Innocent people get crushed in WAR??!!??This is a daily issue where innocent die which is why i said 911 EVERYDAY..."

??? A daily issue you said in Palestine, remember. Well those Islamic murder bomber bastards are the cause of thier "innocent" civilians being the targes in the war against Israel that THEY have started.

Simple as that.

"Go ahead feel free to take revenge from those who are responsible for any attack on America...But Sir make sure you dont inflict personal liking disliking on those who dont even know where America exists on the WORLD MAP..."

Then they are very stupid-- to support a group like Bin Laden and his murdering band of bastards who do know where America is and have the means of taking down buildings with thousands of innocent people within.

Now "those who don't even know where America exits on the WORLD MAP..."-- they now know now where we are, and why we have come to their nation with armies. We are giving them an education in the geography of the world.

They brought it on themselves.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Wish it were that plain and simple...
Let see what you have to say this time...
Trust me I dont even have to go through all what you write coz honestly its the same DAMN thing in different words...
To begin with your comments as to Afghanistan and Iraq both were and are a reply to 911 as a US retaliation and 911 itself was an unprovoked attack...I would again suggest PLEASE refer to what i have been saying earlier...
This issue of US foreign policy and the 1991 attacks on Iraq plus the habit of poking their noses in outside matters every time by the US have resulted in such horrific retaliations. Many died in 1991 in IRAQ which comes much before 2001 Sept 11...
Before you copy and paste this let me tell you that i am stating facts and NOT supporting any extreme factors of survival taken up by terrorists...
As for you going to Palestine...PLEASE again refer to the previous comments which i have typed...
I NEVER mentioned that I support Hisbulallah or any other martyr brigades...I only spoke and mentioned about a common incident in Plaestine TODAY where a 3 yr old girl was shot by Israeli forces and I asked for a justification to that...To which you term as Collateral damage...Innocent people get crushed in WAR??!!??This is a daily issue where innocent die which is why i said 911 EVERYDAY...
Go ahead feel free to take revenge from those who are responsible for any attack on America...But Sir make sure you dont inflict personal liking disliking on those who dont even know where America exists on the WORLD MAP...

[callforjustice911]

Sikandere,

YOU, SIR, ARE THE STUPIDIST PERSON I HAVE EVER COMMUNICATED WITH ! (and I have been on the internet for over 20 years communicating with persons from many cultures all over the world)

You just cannot get your head out of that "grey area" (your ass) at all.

You wrote:

"Everyone knows whats happened on 9/11 was VERY WRONG, and other such horrific attacks...
But PLEASE you cannot and should not ignore innocent human lives lost in this bargain...
Look at the two side at WAR...
One: The terrorists
Two: The Coalition Forces
They both are doing the same...One without and one in uniform..."

Yes, 911 was very wrong, and on that you are right.

But...

The Terrorists and the Coalition Forces are not the same.

Your terroists were the ones that started it in the 911 attacks. They out of the blue ATTACKED the United States without warning. THEN afterwards they announced that this would be the beginning of the end for the United States, and Western Civilization.

The Coalition Forces responded to their call for "holy war"

There is no "bargain" in this. That term that you used implies a choice.

We were never offered a bargain or a choice.

So... WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT !

One attacked does have the RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES ! AND IN THAT "BARGAIN" PEOPLE, (soldiers and civilians) ARE GOING TO DIE.

THAT IS WHAT WAR IS ALL ABOUT DUMMY !

And this you wrote :

"They both are doing the same...One without and one in uniform..."

They are NOT "doing the same" as one is attacked another in their self proclaimed "holy war" and the other a coalition of superpowers is responding in defense. Therein is the "difference."

And as for "uniforms" we wear a legitmate one, and so do your terrorist bastards-- masks over their faces, with bombs strapped to their chests, and weapons in hand, out to kill anyone not members of their Islamic faith.

Then you wrote:

"When you are representing a coalition you tend to carry various sentiments and interests involved and cannot use them to your own liking...
God damnit there has to be difference between us and them and as of now i do not see any...sorry but i dont..."

AND THAT IS WHY YOU ARE STUPID. You cannot see the difference. It is plainly obvious to anyone with a brain.

But not you with your head in your "grey area."

The difference is this: One is terrorist-- a person(s) that go out of their way in stealth to kill anyone outside of their belief system.

The other are those that terrorists are attacking, members of western civilization, western governments, or members of other faiths. Currently the United States is the one that is the object of these Islamic terrorist bastards.

Now, one is attacking in stealth, and the other acting in defense.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

And this is war, a justified war... PEOPLE DIE IN WAR.

It is either them or us in the "bargain" that the Islamic terrorists have put on the table for us.

And it is my aim and the aim of all who cherish freedom in this "bargain" to defeat the Islamic murdering bastards that are attacking us and western civilization in their aims to "Talibanize" the world.

That is the the bottom line.

Then you wrote:

"This aint WAR...at least not America's WAR for sure which is why this is a coalition against terror..."

??? Another ignorant statement... THIS IS WAR, STUPID. And it is a coalition response against terror, the only thing that you wrote that is right.

Then you wrote:

"I dont hope or wish to change your view point, faith or observations...i am sure you have your very good reasons to believe what you believe in..."

You bet I do-- Just read everything I have posted here at this site. I will never change my view on this until this war is over and those that stand against Islamic terrorism are victorious. I have make it very clear as to why I think the way I do regarding this issue.

"Issue is not American people...Its the people who run them and there policies..."

Tell that to 2,998 victims of 911 (American people) and their surving families. Tell them that it is not their "issue."

And the policy of war is being imposed by the People of the United States in response to that attack. Understand this, if you can-- We will defeat the terrorists even if it means that we must kill every one of them going to the ends of the earth to do so. And granted, in this alot of innocent people are going to die, and that is something that the murdering Islamic bastards did not consider very well in their "bargain" to the west when they launced their "holy war."

But then again, maybe they did, as they do not value human life so well as to charish it. Instead they value martyrdom, and they care less for those (including thier own people) that they take with them.

We will oblige them, and send them to hell where they belong.

And lastly when you wrote:

"And by the way to teach geography and to get attention, there are many better ways instead of............!!!"

Unfortunately for these stupid Islamics in nations where the people are so uninformed as to where the United States is on the map, yet support groups, such as the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden that do know and hate us to blow up buildings on our land... When 911 attacks are unleased, we will respond and let them know where we are on the map.

That is the choice that they have given us.

And we will respond accordingly.

Do yourself a favor-- Get your head out of that "grey area", see the light of day for what it is.

And once you get a breath of fresh air, you will then have a nice Day.....

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Dont YOU understand??
WHAT THE HELL is wrong with you???
Everyone knows whats happened on 9/11 was VERY WRONG, and other such horrific attacks...
But PLEASE you cannot and should not ignore innocent human lives lost in this bargain...
Look at the two side at WAR...
One: The terrorists
Two: The Coalition Forces
They both are doing the same...One without and one in uniform...
When you are representing a coalition you tend to carry various sentiments and interests involved and cannot use them to your own liking...
God damnit there has to be difference between us and them and as of now i do not see any...sorry but i dont...
This aint WAR...atleast not America's WAR for sure which is why this is a coalition against terror...
I dont hope or wish to change your view point, faith or observations...i am sure you have your very good reasons to believe what you believe in...
Issue is not American people...Its the people who run them and there policies...
And by the way to teach geography and to get attention, there are many better ways instead of............!!!

Have a Nice Day.....

[callforjustice911]

Sikendare, you wrote:

"Have you noticed how you get too excited in replying to me...Using words such as 'MY ASS' in the 'Grey Area' and bla bla bla..."

BECAUSE YOU ARE SOOOOO STUUUUUPID !

Then you wrote after me:

"Tell that to 2,998 victims of 911 (American people) and their surving families. Tell them that it is not their "issue."
Well Mr. RIGHT how about you justifying your cause to the Afghani and Iraqi families and children to whom i said dont even know where America is on the world map...Blow up their homes...oh wait!! this is WAR right...BULLSHIT!!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHAT SO EVER...
How many did you lose in 9/11?????"

We lost 2,998 on 911. That surprise attack was and is a CAUSE FOR WAR.

Now look at other causes and effects.

Japan attacked the United States on December 7th 1941, about 2,700 people killed. It was the beginning of WWII rembember. And we ened WWII with TWO ATOMIC BOMBS on two cities--- hundreds of thousands of people, mostly civilians killed.

CAUSE= Surprise attack starting US involvement in WW II.

EFFECT= Retaliation by the US with two bombs ending WW II.

Most of the civilians that died in those two bombings would rather not have been there or even been involved in WWII-- BUT THAT IS THE WAY IT IS DUMMY. If you think it is bullshit then try to convince the world from you bully pulpit.

No one will listen to you.

War is war, and like it or not we are at war.

And those people in Iraq and Afgainistan, supporters of al Qaeda, (the ones who saw off mens heads, and blow up buildings with innnocents inside) will come to know a lot about America, the enemy that they have chosen to fight by lending support to those that wish to destroy us.

Then you wrote this demonstrating your stupidity:

"Retard!!! America to begin with was not attacked on 9/11 OUT OF THE BLUE!!!"

Oh really ! Humm did not see any "announcement" that day to stay away from the Trade Center Buildings" (By the way: I could have been there on that day as I was involved in an event that would have put me in the resturant at the top of the WRC at 9:00 AM that morning the morning of 9/11/01. Had I gone I would have been killed.)

It was out of the blue, bastard, (terrorist sympathizer you are)

"Keep your Blue n Red in your pocket and open your thick skull...America had credible info of 9/11 to which they did not care enough about, instead FBI and CIA kept playing passing the pillow later on when it came to taking the blame for ignorance..."

You are so stupid it is beyond my belief. Everything you post reveals it more and more. (Just like Mark Twain said) Okay, fool, PROVE TO ALL WHAT YOU KNOW THAT EVERYONE DOES NOT?

Prove your "conspiracy theory"

You can't because there are no facts to support it. Where do you get your "information" the "Daily Star" the "National Inquirer" or is it "Hustler."

And you wrote:

"and besides i think you have a VERY SHORT MEMORY...read previous replies where i have CLEARLY mentioned that 9/11 is not an act OUT OF THE BLUE!!! shit head..."

You are a DORK ! You say it was not "out of the blue"... I SAY IT IS, and I have said that right from the very beginning.

It was out of the blue, I have stood by that right from the very start. That "out of the blue" 911 attack represents a clear and unprovoked attack on the United States, just as dastardly as Japan's attack on Dec. 7th, 1941.

I have stood by that right from the beginning. And it is you that have the short memory. It is you that have the conspiracy notions infesting your brain and clouding your memory.

Then you wrote:

"The atrocities on the weaker by the US and their allies have created such monsters who once HAD A LIFE!!!"

They never had a life, stupid. Living in shit hole countries of their own making. Living under Taliban governments that have put them back into the middle ages. Then they have the audacity to attack a superpower ?

They deserve our response, idiot.

"In the bargain we live all the time around the world live UNDER THREAT YOU MORON!!!"

There we go again with your "bargain." What threat are you talking about stupid. The response that a governement or persons would get if they launch another surprise attack?

"And by the way...9/11 might happen again coz the DAMN forces are focused on other issues rather than catching some REAL BAD GUYS...
These terrorists are spread around the world and thus operate that way...They act individually unlike the Army with the proper ranking orders..."

Right, they only thing you have said that is right. And we will root them out like weeds and burn out the governments that support them.

"YOUR WAR is against groups and individuals with twisted minds not a NATION named Afghanistan or IRAQ..."

Stupid-- Afganistan under Omar, supported Osama Bin Laden. And Iraq was also supporting Bin Laden as well and the murder bombers that attack Israel, remember.

We are in a Third World War. And this war will not be like the others. That is the "bargain" that your terrorist bastards have placed on the table. And we have to deal with it, and we will.

Then you wrote:

"Given the idea that your grasping power of anything outside TV news is very limited i would still leave you with the option to talk to more people..maybe then you wont feel so lonely and cheated..."

Look, stupid, I am certainly MORE informed than you. (One cannot get much information where your head is at in that "grey area") [your ass]

Then you wrote:

"Dont bother replying...coz as f
ar as i am concerned this window is CLOSED!!!
GOD BLESS..."

BTW: If your "god" is allah, don't bother as I do not need a "blessing" from a god that likes to see mens heads cut off and the murder of innocents for pleasure.

[Sikandere]

CallforJustice911,
Have you noticed how you get too excited in replying to me...Using words such as 'MY ASS' in the 'Grey Area' and bla bla bla...
You wrote:
Tell that to 2,998 victims of 911 (American people) and their surving families. Tell them that it is not their "issue."
Well Mr. RIGHT how about you justifying your cause to the Afghani and Iraqi families and children to whom i said dont even know where America is on the world map...Blow up their homes...oh wait!! this is WAR right...BULLSHIT!!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHAT SO EVER...
How many did you lose in 9/11?????
You wrote:
Your terroists were the ones that started it in the 911 attacks. They out of the blue ATTACKED the United States without warning. THEN afterwards they announced that this would be the beginning of the end for the United States, and Western Civilization.
Retard!!! America to begin with was not attacked on 9/11 OUT OF THE BLUE!!! Keep your Blue n Red in your pocket and open your thick skull...America had credible info of 9/11 to which they did not care enough about, instead FBI and CIA kept playing passing the pillow later on when it came to taking the blame for ignorance...and besides i think you have a VERY SHORT MEMORY...read previous replies where i have CLEARLY mentioned that 9/11 is not an act OUT OF THE BLUE!!! shit head...The atrocities on the weaker by the US and their allies have created such monsters who once HAD A LIFE!!!
In the bargain we live all the time around the world live UNDER THREAT YOU MORON!!!
And by the way...9/11 might happen again coz the DAMN forces are focused on other issues rather than catching some REAL BAD GUYS...
These terrorists are spread around the world and thus operate that way...They act individually unlike the Army with the proper ranking orders...
YOUR WAR is against groups and individuals with twisted minds not a NATION named Afghanistan or IRAQ...
Given the idea that your grasping power of anything outside TV news is very limited i would still leave you with the option to talk to more people..maybe then you wont feel so lonely and cheated...
Dont bother replying...coz as far as i am concerned this window is CLOSED!!!
GOD BLESS.....

[FRYGUY]

Why not for a brief moment we stop justifying acts of horror and instead demand for a total stop towards all killings?

If you are to brand the Moslems as babbaric and thinks that revenge is the order of the day, what is the difference between you and them?

Is it that hard for us to be human for once?

[FRYGUY]

Why not for a brief moment we stop justifying acts of horror and instead demand for a total stop towards all killings?

If you are to brand the Moslems as babbaric and thinks that revenge is the order of the day, what is the difference between you and them?

Is it that hard for us to be human for once?

[jandy]

could every one who like the usa and what they do please have a look at this web site and then see the the beheading is only a small thing when you compare the two http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

[FRYGUY]

"could every one who like the usa and what they do"

And the opposite of those addressed above will be those who HATE the US of A, right?

Again the theme here is about hatred. Nobody will break out from this vicious cycle if they do not make the iniative to forgive and forget. How many innocent civilians has to be hurt? How many hostages has to be beheaded?

[no one knows me]

kill them all bush, how do u think that faimly feels!
Kill them all

[FRYGUY]

"kill them all bush, how do u think that faimly feels!
Kill them all"

Funnily though, those are the exact words being uttered by the so-called jihad fighters.

Just like ppl in the US are angered by the senseless 911 attack, the jihad fighters are angered by the invasion of iraq. Yes, thats how they see it, invasion, and not liberation.

By saying that world peace can be enforced through war is simply foolish as that is exactly what the jihad fighters are doing. They have to resort to such violent ways (beheading etc) as they are outnumbered.

Cant we see that we are not so different after all. Each are just fighting for their own cause. We might not see eye-to-eye on the cause, but the use of force is just stupid and will not resolve anything. And each killing will anger more people and by saying this, it is not just limited to the US citizens but the Iraqis as well.

And above all, I must admit that the word jihad has been totally misused, as explained by my muslim friends (yes, I have friends from other religion as well).

[callforjustice911]

In this war we cannot forget. We must not "turn the other cheek."

It is a radical Islamic war against us and civilization.

It is the Islamic bastard terrorists vision that the world be under their 8th century style rule.

It is the vision of the United States, and all informed nations that humanity progress beyond the hatred that the Islamic bastards want to impose upon all.

If it means killing all of these Islamic bastard terrorists in a global war that they have declared then so be it.

What is war good for?

To make peace when all are sick of war.

callforjustice911

[FRYGUY]

"It is the Islamic bastard terrorists vision that the world be under their 8th century style rule."

"It is the vision of the United States, and all informed nations that humanity progress beyond the hatred that the Islamic bastards want to impose upon all."

Callforjustice,

US is being the target of hatred as a result of its 'holier-than-thou' attitude. Which, basically isn't that different from the attitude of the radical islamic nations.

And they are asking for the massacre of all US citizens, very much like what you are calling for.

So if they are just plain stupid and a bunch of mother-fuckers, what does that make the US and its people?

So, please. Stop fueling people's hatred towards another. Only the innocent will be the victim (ie the 911 victims, innocent iraqis etc) in this war.

p/s: i totally agree with you in that the guilty ones should be brought to justice, but let them be dealt in a more civilised manner, which we all are.

[U.S. ARMY]

Question 1: Has anyone here been in combat?

I have seen war.

Question 2 : Did you know its standard procedure to get prisoners naked, seperate them, and demean them (to prevent an uprising).

I don't care if they don't get enough sleep, if they are piled up naked if dogs bark at them (come on really)is that so terrible to gain information that will save our soldiers lives?

True : At a major university about 45 minutes from my home town, after 9/11 Many middle eastern students had thier televisions outside thier rooms cheering and carrying on in celebration. There was nearly lynching involved so city police were called, as well as campus security. (If you think the guy at the local hotel/gas station/hospital isn't a sympathizer you are wrong, maybe even funding with our own dollars}.

Paul Harvey : A budweiser beer driver was doing his local route on 9/11, he went to a regular stop/ gas station where the middle eastern man/owner was cheering with his worker, also middle eastern. He called his superior and said u can fire me but im not going back in there. His supervisor said (after told the story) Can you go back in there long enough to get all of our products off the shelves? So the driver did. Go Budweiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those here who love America, but appose the war. It was only a matter of time until they brought the war to us, and george bush knew it.

I have lost brothers in iraq, I support our efforts still.

In fact im going to reenlist, I won't say were i've been only that i was in the Air Cavalry, U.S. ARMY

[Rodman Ramezanian]

America invading Iraq might arise a vicious fude in the world, but beheading a guy is just way too far!! Who are those iraqis trying to impress??