Sweet Jesus

The Associated Press reports that the Gospel According to Mel has taken in an estimated $15 million to $20 million in its first day and a bit in theaters:

"That falls far short of the single-day record of $43.6 million held by "Spider-Man," but "The Passion" already has passed the receipts that other modern religious films took in during their entire runs, among them "The Last Temptation of Christ" ($8.4 million) and "The Omega Code" ($12.5 million).

To my mind, those comparisons actually make The Passion's performance seem a bit less than inspiring, though a lot will depend on what happens through the weekend. For some perspective on box office results, check out this chart at Movies.com. You may end up asking yourself whether we're in an age of miracles or in the Anti-Christ's interregnum that 50 First Dates has grossed over $70 million in two weeks and Miracle and Barbershop 2 over $50 million each in three weeks.

One sign that God still exists: After a week in theaters, Welcome to Mooseport and Eurotrip have grossed less than half of what The Passion pulled in so far.

UPDATE/ACT OF CONTRITION: Let me say an act of contrition for my reading skills. As several readers pointed out, I mistook the full-run grosses for The Last Temptation of Christ and The Omega Code for their opening-day grosses. Hence, my mischaracterization of the boffo b.o. for day one of The Passion. It'll be five Hail Mary's, three Lord's Prayers, and two Glory Be's for this lapsed Catholic. And wearing scapulas for a week.

Comments

[Pete]

Perhaps you’re not used to reading grosses, Nick. 15 to 20 million on a Wednesday (for a religous film with subtitles and no names) is huge. The only real question now is does the film have legs.

[John Hensley]

The Passion could be an absolutely horrid film, but as long as it’s consistent with the bible people will see it in droves to avoid ticking off God. It’s a clever business strategy.

[tim]

consistent with the bible? isn’t that an oximoron.

[Jack]

I’m with Pete, Nick needs to follow movie grosses more. Just a few years ago $20 million would’ve been a record opening for a Wednesday.

[John Hensley]

No, no. I wrote “biblically accurate” at first but then changed it.

[Andrew Lynch]

Thank the Christ we live in an age when box-office receipts are the gauge of subject matter. The fiscally entrepreneurial Holy Spirit has a place in heaven for you, Nick.

[Douglas Fletcher]

I thought that the big tracking for movie grosses was he first weekend it comes out, not the first day.

[Joe Majsterski]

Certainly this is true, Douglas, but they track both, really. A huge Wednesday bodes well for the weekend gross, when people have a lot more free time to go see the movie.

[Douglas Fletcher]

I’m sure they track every penny all the way, then rewrite the books before they have to start paying out those troublesome residuals and royalties. Or so I’ve heard.

[Eric]

JB,
Thanks for the reference to the 1985 article – I’ll track it down. I’ll also revisit Sheler’s book and see if he mentioned it (he should have). Also, about rich folks and hellfire, please see my earlier posts to Joe about that.

Douglas Fletcher,
What’s the historical evidence that, say, Alexander the Great existed?

[Ther Prophet Mohammed]

Jesus Christ, I sure got off easy!

[Aristotle]

Existence exists.

[KentInDC]

“Tell me, Jesus…do you think that this movie has created divisiveness or unity? And, which do you prefer?”

Linda,
I wasn’t there, but according to the Bible, Jesus said:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.” Matthew 10:34-38

[Les]

Gosh, he sounds kind of like an asshole to me.

[Jesus]

When the Romans nailed me to the cross 2000 or so years ago I have a vage recollection of them sticking the spikes between my wrist bones. Hand bones would break under the stress in few minutes. But It’s hard to remember.

Jesus

[chthus]

I would guess that the box office take has no reflection on the subject of this film, however it reflects significantly on what the subject of future films will be. I can see the movie execs scrambling now. Just like they found a recent goldmine in already written stories with a built in audience in comics, now they can plumb the depths of the bible for stories. I wonder who they are casting as Job.

Jesus, you aren’t seeming quite as omniscient as your daddy. While historians and doctors with cadavers have figured out that you would have been hung by the wrists, the gospels make no such mention. As a matter of fact, they discuss how Doubting Thomas later touched the nail wounds in your hands. Go bitch at the source material, you’re about 1950 years late.

[Jean Bart]

DENVER (Reuters) – A Denver Pentecostal church named “Lovingway” put up a sign that read “Jews killed the Lord Jesus,” prompting about 100 people to march outside the church to protest the message before it was taken down.

The sign in front of the Lovingway United Pentecostal Church was put up on Wednesday, the same day the controversial movie “The Passion of the Christ” opened in cinemas across the United States.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040226/film_nm/leisure_passion_sign_dc&e=4

[SM]

Eric,

“What’s the historical evidence that, say, Alexander the Great existed?”

References to Alex the Great in histories all the way from greece thru’ to India good enough for you ? And before you start with the Josephus stuff, there are many, many, many more citings of Alexander the Great. Of course, he didnt turn wine into water. But that could be because he drank a lot of the former.

[Warren]

Christ; what a dick

[Eric]

SM,
References based on what?

[SM]

Eric,
Before I put any more time into discussion, riddle me this – How old is the earth ?

[Eric]

SM,
Sorry, not biting. But there is a point to my question, and if you answer it, I’ll tell you what it is.

[SM]

Forget it. I want to be reasonably certain that the person at the other end of the line has a rational frame of reference. With all due respect, I am not interested convincing anyone that the Earth is not flat.
For what its worth – i don’t have any opinions on Jesus’s historicity one way or the other.

[Jean Bart]

Eric,

Well there exist actual royal letters sent by Alexander to his various court officials.

[Jean Bart]

Eric,

Also, the Astronomical diary that was kept in the Esagila is a contemporary source which mentions Alexander.

Try:

A.J. Heisserer, Alexander the Great and the Greeks. The Epigraphic Evidence (Norman: U. Oklahoma Press 1980)

[Jean Bart]

Eric,

Indeed, the diary mentions him extensively as I recall.

[Eric]

SM,
Don’t worry, I’m no flat-earther. I’m trying to make a point. Our knowledge of these historical figures is based on references in contemporary documents and later references based on those contemporary documents. Many of these references were written by people who were actually there and saw everything, or spoke to those who had. We accept these references as valid unless they are proven otherwise.

It seems to me that the Gospels fit that same definition. No one doubts Alexander existed, or Socrates or Aristotle or Plato, or other ancient figures, although all we have are historical references of their existence, and writings that we’re pretty sure they penned. So why do we doubt the same about the Bible, when it meets those same criteria?

JB, those letters from Alexander. No one can prove he actually wrote them, but we accept it because they haven’t proved unreliable. I contend the Gospels haven’t given us any good reasons to be unreliable. I know there’s a huge debate about that, a lot of smart, educated folks think otherwise. But equally smart and educated folks think they are reliable.

So that’s my point. But back to Douglas Fletcher, there are plent of extra-biblical, historical references to Jesus. Here are some, as listed in the March 21, 1986 JAMA:

“Specifically, Jesus (or his crucifixion) is mentioned by the Roman historians Cornelius Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Suetonius, by non-Roman historians Thallus and Phlegon, by the satirist Lucian of Samosata, by the Jewish Talmud, and by the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, although the authenticity of portions of the latter is problematic.”

[SM]

Eric,
OK. No comment.

JB,

I seem to recall there was some question over whether the Christ mentioned by Cornelius Tacitus was actually “the” Jesus (ie Mel Gibson’s saviour) ? Apparently slave rebellions were common enough at the time and Tacitus may have been referring to one of those ? Any truth to that ?

[SM]

Eric,
OK. No comment.

JB,

I seem to recall there was some question over whether the Christ mentioned by Cornelius Tacitus was actually “the” Jesus (ie Mel Gibson’s saviour) ? Apparently slave rebellions were common enough at the time and Tacitus may have been referring to one of those ? Any truth to that ?

[Jean Bart]

Eric,

Well, you didn’t address the diary; furthermore, Alexander’s exploits don’t include the sorts of miraculous events claimed of Jesus. By itself, those claims of miracles make the story suspicious. Indeed, I doubt those stories of miracles and the like as much as I do those which are found in say Homer’s Iliad or Herodotus’ Histories.

As to the historical sources you site, I know that there are many concerns at least about Tacitus and Pliny and that many scholars have found the statements entailed in them questionable. I don’t doubt that the same is true of the rest; Christians in the middle ages and earlier were quite throwing interpolations into texts to prove the authenticity of their so-called god. Indeed, that they felt the need to do so – to create a pedigree and provenance – is indicative that the evidence for his existance is faulty at best. Of course even if I were to accept his existance, that doesn’t meant that I would never accept the sorts of stupid and irrational tales that one finds in the bible or other religious texts.

[Eric]

JB,
I was typing my post when you mentioned the diary. Of course I don’t doubt Alexander existed. Just saying that the same criteria we use to judge that he did are the same we use to judge that Jesus did – historical documentation by contemporary sources.

I was trying to address Douglas Fletcher’s point, that there’s no historical evidence of Jesus’ existence. Of course there is.

And yes, one can accept he existed without believing he was God. Perfectly respecable.

Wrong, but respectable. 😉

[Jean Bart]

Eric,

I can’t help if you are irrational. 🙂

[Jean Bart]

SM,

You are correct. 🙂

[Critic]

I am, therefore I’ll think.

[joe]

“By itself, those claims of miracles make the story suspicious.”

I think you give away the game here, JB. The existence of Jesus and the literal truth of the miracle stories are two different issues.

Achilles was thought by all reasonable people to have been a myth, too. I mean, the feats described by Homer couldn’t possibly be true!

[JimBob]

Nick ole boy, get a grip son.

The Passion burned onto the record books, notching the biggest opening day for a movie released outside the summer (May-August) and holiday (November-December) seasons

[Jean Bart]

joe,

“The existence of Jesus and the literal truth of the miracle stories are two different issues.”

Well, I don’t generally contest the existance or non-exist of the carpenter; its really a non-issue to me.

[SM]

JimBob,

“The Passion burned onto the record books, notching the biggest opening day for a movie released outside the summer (May-August) and holiday (November-December) seasons”

Hallelujah, I am a believer ! Where do i convert ?

[JimBob]

“Hallelujah, I am a believer ! Where do i convert ?”

I suggest you go over to Nick’s place, smoke some dope and it’ll hit ya.

[Mo]

JimBob,
This is Reason, most of the commenters have their own stash.

[jagcap]

Why not leave the snarky “I’m a lapsed Catholic and you know what THAT means” schtick to George Carlin and his ilk? Ass.

[Critic]

DANGER! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

A woman in Wichita, Kan., collapsed during the film’s final, bloody crucifixion scene. While people were helping the woman, identified as 57-year-old Peggy Law Scott, the lights were turned on and moviegoers were ushered out. She later died at a hospital.

[Jean Bart]

chthus,

There is very little archeaological evidence to suggest that anyone was nailed by their wrists, hands, etc. to a cross. Indeed, there is no evidence that I know of this. There is some evidence of being nailed through the ankle; but it is suggested that most persons who were crucified were done so by ropes.

Second, the Gibson’s movie has a number of extra-biblical scenes; such as the sopping up of Christ’s blood (a story which comes from the visions of a 19th century saint) as well as the conversation Pilate has with his wife (which could have been inspired by Bulgakov’s “The Master and the Margerita” for all anyone knows). Of course there is also the issue of the punishment itself; which makes one incredulous given the lengths Gibson went to.

[Overlord]

“It’ll be five Hail Mary’s, three Lord’s Prayers, and two Glory Be’s for this lapsed Catholic. And wearing scapulas for a week.”

And how about a couple of hard knocks on the knuckles with the old Nun’s ruler?

[Shannon Love]

If you think of Gibson’s movie as a major Hollywood production designed to have wide appeal, then its performance is good but no amazingly so. But if you consider it is a subtitled film art house film, then it is huge.

I would be willing to bet that this is the biggest grossing subtitled movie ever. Especially, if you consider that all the dialog is in two dead languages so that it has no native audience.

[Phil]

Since this is Reason, add an extra Hail Mary for comparing Movie revenues from different years without adjusting them to real values via the Consumers Price Index or the like.

[joe]

Because of the graphic violence, the film is being referred to as “The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.”

[Critic]

“Das Boot” was subtitled. How’d it do?

[Jean Bart]

joe,

*LOL*

Shannon Love,

Yes, Gibson will make a fortune I am sure; blood and graphic scenes of violence almost invariably turn a profit. Hmmm, was there not something about lenders and merchants in the temple that angered Christ? 🙂

[Jean Bart]

Critic,

How about all the silent films? They were sub-titled, no? 🙂

[quaker120]

That is a very impressive opening day, but I think the real money from this movie will be made in the DVD and VHS markets.

[Critic]

I’m hoping for a version with a laugh track.

[Eric]

There is some evidence of crucifixions using nails through the wrist. In 1968, the remains of a crucified man was found in a burial cave northeast of Jerusalem. A large iron nail, about seven inches, was found with the body and had been driven through both heels. Nails had also been drive through the wrists.

My source: Jeffery Sheler’s Is The Bible True: How Modern Debates and Discoveries Affirm the Essence of the Scriptures. Sheler is the religion writer for U.S. News and World Report.

If these findings have since been proven false, I haven’t heard about it, though of course it’s possible.

[Col. Klink]

O du aller unvormodeste Dot,
Up di en dacht ik klene noch grot.
Ik hebbe al min Gut vorsaden,
Mine B?ne sint vul Kornes geladen.
Mot ik nu sterven, dat is mi swar,
Unde latent hir, unde wet nicht, war.
Ik en wet nicht, war ik henne mot,
Vorbarme miner Her dor dinen Dot.

[Eric]

Also, my understanding of the lenders and merchants in the temple is that they were screwing the people, and that’s what ticked Jesus off. There’s not much evidence that Jesus was anti-capitalist or against making a buck, as far as I know.

[nobody]

Jesus as muckraker?
Gotta love it.

[joe]

“There’s not much evidence that Jesus was anti-capitalist or against making a buck, as far as I know.’

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Last shall be first, first shall be last.

Blessed are the poor.

etc

(Although, the way people got rich in first century Judea probably wasn’t the libertoid ideal.)

[Linda]

Tell me, Jesus…do you think that this movie has created divisiveness or unity? And, which do you prefer?

[Eric]

Joe,
Thanks, I was expecting that response from someone. There were rich Christians in the New Testament – those passages refer to those rich people who are greedy or idolize their wealth, or who believe their redemption and blessing stem from their wealth rather than from God. In other words, their faith is in money, or in themselves, not God himself.

[chthus]

JB,

Historically, it’s been established through written record as well as with skeletal remains that when nails were used they went through the wrists. You are correct though, most often, ropes were used, however, when it was nails it was wrists.

Furthermore, studies with cadavers have shown that when some one is crucified through the hand, the nail tears out in between the fingers. There are a variety of sources I’ve seen, but there was a JAMA (1986:255:1455-63) article entitled “Study on the Physical Death of Jesus Christ” done by some docs at the Mayo Clinic that covers it all quite well. They even give explaination for the sweating and bleeding of blood, neither very miraculous.

As for the second point, I never claimed that there isn’t anything non-scripture in the movie. There is indeed. However, Gibson said he tried not to conflict with anything in the gospels, that’s why I mentioned the hand reference. If he goes to the wrist, he’s directly conflicting with the “proof” Jesus showed to his doubting follower. But you are correct, he added some extras.

That all said and done, this atheist is skipping out at lunch today to go see the show. If some one drops dead of a heart attack at my showing, I may just have to shout an Amen.

[dhex]

if nothing else, having your movie kill someone is pretty goddamn impressive.

[chthus]

Jesus was a capitalist only as a means to philanthropy. He invoked his followers to sell all of their worldly possession, then give all the money away.

[chthus]

dhex,

Damn straight its impressive. I’m hoping to see 50’s horror movie warning signs outside the theater. “Those that are weak of heart do not enter, turn back, it’s your last chance.”

[Eric]

chthus,
Yes, Jesus told one wealthy young man to do that, as a test to show that the man was not truly sincere and serious about following him.

Remember, Jesus himself worked as a carpenter. He undoubtedly charged people for his work. He no doubt made money (how much we don’t know). It’s not a sin to work for a living and make money, or even to be rich.

[Pete]

The highest-grossing subtitled film is Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which made 128 million in the U.S. This is pretty amazing since not long ago Hollywood believed the ceiling for subtitled films was around 20 million.

The Passion is, by any way you wish to measure it, already a huge hit.

[Mo]

The Passion is a huge hit thanks to the anti-Semitism controversy, but I bet you Mel will never admit that.

[zymurgist]

I would go see this film, but I would probably be lynched for laughing at inappropriate moments…

[joe]

Although the nails would explain why He died so fast, and the rarity of the technique would explain why Pilate was surprised.

[Woman now in Heaven]

I laughed, I cried, I died.

[KJ]

For all I know, the moneychangers were part of the collection system of the high priests. In order to purchase animals for sacrifice within the Temple (a serious obligation for Jews), Roman coins with the image of Caesar had to be changed into Jewish shekels, lest the Temple be desecrated by a gentile image.

Since the Temple was the base of operations both politically and economically for the High Priest and his colleagues, Jesus’ chasing the moneychangers out of the Temple was ruled an unacceptable disruption of commerce, and a threat to the authority of the Council of Priests. In the view of the priests, the business of destroying the Temple was tantamount to destroying them and their authority.

[Jean Bart]

joe,

Actually, one explanation is asphyxiation. In some of the Nazi death camps prisoners were suspended in a similar fashion (hands tied over the heads with ropes); and many died within ten minutes to half an hour of being so suspended if their feet were tied down.

[Fred]

Zymurgist: Are you a wine maker or do you just want the last word (of the dictionary)?

Laughing at inappropriate moments; isn’t that a typical characterist of libertarians?

I hope the guys at South Park get around to spoofing this movie.

[mobile]

Hey! You can’t announce the first day results yet! The theatres are still open on the west coast!

[joe]

JB, the point is, He died faster than was expected when people were tied to their cross. Most victims didn’t die within a day – they struggled to support themselves with their feet until they became exhausted and suffocated a few days later. The fact that His death came relatively quickly indicates that something unusual occurred.

[Ex-leper]

Crucifixion? Good.

If you want the biblical portrayal, go see Mel’s movie. If you want the accurate portrayal, look on the bright side of life and see Life Of Brian.

[zymurgist]

Fred,

It’s beer, actually. I leave the “turning water into wine” bit for the experts. 😉

Yeah, the South Park guys should have a field day with this one. I still chuckle thinking about the episode where they spoofed the Mormons.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Someday I’m going to remind everybody that there’s very little historical evidence that any of this Jesus stuff happened.

[Woman now in Heaven]

MY DEATH UPDATE:

The flight was a bit bumpy but I’m settled in now and my new buds and I are preparing for lunch. You would not BELIEVE the buffet table!

Tonight we meet Mr. Big.
Can’t wait!

Toodles!

[dj of raleigh]

I have never seen a more devouted lot
to the discussion of religion than here,
from the atheist, agnostic and skeptic.

Who’s tryiing to convince who of what, I’m not sure.
I’m sure most have figured out if the film is for them by now —
an amazing amount of discussion about an unseen film

[Dink]

dj,

It’s funny cuz it’s true.

[joe]

I like the misspelling of “devoted.”

That’s good poetry.