Immigrant Song

All of the details are hazy, but President Bush's planned announcement of some sort of amnesty for illegal immigrants currently in the U.S. and the creation of a guest-worker program seem like steps in the right direction.

As the Miami Herald notes, Bush had planned a major overhaul of immigration laws prior to 9/11. It looks like his new proposal will not be that, but it's starting the conversation up at least. From the Herald account:

The proposal would provide a way for illegal immigrants who can show they have employment to work legally, although temporarily, in the United States. The new "temporary worker program," which also would include people still in their native countries who have a job lined up in the United States, would not, like the temporary visa programs already in existence that involve mostly technical experts, apply only to a certain sector of the economy or industry.

…

Bush wants to increase the nation's yearly allotment of green cards that allow for permanent U.S. residency, but won't say by how much, the officials said. Approximately 140,000 green cards a year are issued now.

He also wants the workers' first three-year term in the program to be renewable but won't say for how long; he won't set the amount workers should pay to apply for the program; and he won't specify how to enforce the requirement that no American worker wants the job the foreign worker is taking, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Comments

[Shawn]

A person can’t advocate against the absurd mass immigration policy we have had since 1965 because their ancestors were once immigrants? Thats not a particularly rational argument. O’Sullivans family most likely came to the U.S. prior to 1965, when the U.S. had a rational immigration policy. Since the law change of 65 we have had an immigration policy that not only is not in our national interest, it is an assualt on American citizens. I like Bush on the whole, but any amnesty for ILLEGAL immigrants is just an invitation for more people to flout our laws. And correct me if I’m wrong, but we DO currently have an unemployement problem. Surely American citizens should have priority over people who came here by breaking our laws, and who’s ancestors, unlike O’Sullivans, contributed nothing to our nation and its prosperity.

Try some genuinely rational, as opposed to politically correct, arguments against illegal and mass immigration by Ilana Mercer:

http://www.ilanamercer.com/Braindrain.htm

[Lonewacko Takes on "Liberal" "]

“For a fellow named O’Sullivan to take on that hue hue and cry is doubly ironic.”

Indeed. Especially since most Irish came here legally. And, when they came here they came here for good. And, Ireland wasn’t a 2 hour car trip away. And, no parts of the U.S. had ever been part of Ireland. And, the Irish government wasn’t trying to take its former lands back. And, the Irish spoke English. And, there was no welfare state. And, there was no MultiCultiCult

Except for those differences and a few more, there’s absolutely no difference between yesterday’s Irish immigration and today’s immigration from Mexico.

Here’s an interesting what if for ya, Mona: What if, like Northern Ireland, the New England states had previously been an Irish possession, and had been bought from them after a war? And, what if Ireland, instead of being across a wide ocean, was connected to the New England states and separated only by a land border?

Here’s an article from FAIR about this proposal:

Proposals for a massive new “guestworker” program would:

• threaten homeland security
• grant amnesty for law-breakers, a step overwhelmingly opposed by the American public
• establish a back door immigration program
• threaten the jobs and wages of American workers.

The politicians pushing a guestworker amnesty know that Americans staunchly oppose amnesty, and so they shy away from calling it what it really is, instead cloaking it in terms like “earned legalization” or “normalization of status.” They are deliberately misleading the American public.

And, here’s an article from Michelle Malkin:

My 8-week-old son’s Social Security card recently arrived in the mail. On the back, there’s a stern warning: “Improper use of this card or number by anyone is punishable by fine, imprisonment or both.”

Welcome to the world of government theft and selective enforcement, my boy.

While innocent babes who have yet to earn a penny are threatened with jail time for misusing Social Security cards, the Bush administration appears set this week to turn the ailing government pension program into an international relief fund for illegal alien workers who used counterfeit Social Security cards and stolen numbers to secure illegal jobs.

Unlike the bedtime stories I tell at night, I am not making this up…

Consider this quote from a Mexican government official:

“By populating the United States with millions of Hispanics who are tied economically, politically and linguistically to Mexico, we are able to exert enormous influence and pressure on U.S. policy and its dealings with Mexico.”

How does that make you feel? Do you think it’s a good thing to have other countries try to get what they want by sending us people?

For background, see the article ‘Multiculturalism, Immigration and Aztlan’. There are many more links in my Immigration category.

For extra credit, search for useful idiots here.

[Lonewacko Has Another What-If?]

What if the leaders of Quebec started encouraging illegal immigration from Quebec to northern New England? In parts of Maine, 3/4 of the people speak French at home, and one can see TV channels from Quebec on TVs there. What if the Quebec gvmt started making noises about mobilizing those people to support its programs? What if U.S. politicians of French ancestry invented some organization that believed that Maine is a French-Canadian homeland?

Wouldn’t that be a threat to our sovereignty?

[Xrlq]

Wasn’t IRCA supposed to solve the illegal immigration problem? Seeing as it hasn’t, why does anyone seriously believe that a second amnesty program will? The more times we do this, the clearer a message we will send to prospective illegals: flout the laws of this country, and eventually you’ll get your reward.

[Dan]

Mona, at the risk of repeating an old cliche, it’s actually ironic for anyone in this country.

Actually, no.

The old “immigrants are taking our jobs!” complaint didn’t really catch on until American became more industrialized. Prior to that, immigrants generally came here and took up farming on previously unclaimed* land.

Racism, anti-semetism, and anti-Catholicism also played roles, of course. But it’s hard to waste a lot of time disliking people when you aren’t competing with them in any real way.

Especially since most Irish came here legally

Oh, come ON. For most of the period during which large numbers of Irish were coming to the United States, “coming here legally” pretty much meant “showing up on a boat”. Immigration controls and quotas are FAR stricter now than they were during the 18th and 19th centuries.

And, no parts of the U.S. had ever been part of Ireland.

Ireland didn’t achieve independence from England until well after the bulk of the Irish-American immigration was over. During the period when “Irish” were coming to the United States, they were emmigrating from Great Britain, not from a country named “Ireland”.

Remember the country the United States used to belong to? Think hard now. 🙂

And, Ireland wasn’t a 2 hour car trip away

So?

[Dan]

What if U.S. politicians of French ancestry invented some organization that believed that Maine is a French-Canadian homeland?

Nobody would give a rat’s ass?

Do you realize how laughable it is, to sane people, to act like Mexico and Canada somehow represent threats to US sovereignity?

[Mona]

Lonewacko, clearly you are in the grips of a terror of Mexicans and the evil machinations they purportedly engage in once here. I see others have already pointed out salient problems with your attempt to distinguish the Irish from the Mexican immigration experience, but I have a bit to add. Gee, the Irish spoke English, eh? Well, damn, then the micks were grand, but those wops, Polacks and krauts were such a nuisance.

(All of ’em were filthy papists, however, and thus could not ever be “real Americans,” just like…those Mexicans! It is time to resurrect the Know-Nothing movement, yes indeedy-do. Do ya think the Mexicans have guns in their basements, as the Catlics have always done to, you know, take over the country for the Vatican?)

And doncha know, those Germans we let in here were real, real suspect during WWI — to whom were they loyal, hmmm? Yeah, like those Japs we had to deal with in camps, that WWII project (and so many of the first generation just did NOT speak English, whihc is in-fuckingtolerable.)

And oh, yes, opposing such policies, and embracing generally open borders, that sure enuff makes me a liberal. A lot of lefties oppose anti-discrimination laws and think most enviros are wacko freaks. Left-wing nut, that’s me. All because I think people who want to come to America should be allowed to, absent serious criminal record or intent to commit espionage and/or terrorism.

I’ve lived in the polyglot Manhattan, and occasionally found the language barriers with cabbies and deli vendors annoying. But mostly, I loved the endlessly variety of cuisine, interesting people from everywhere, and the diversity of attitudes and thinking. But then, I find peopole intersting, and do not expect them to be just like me — altho I can get impatient with those whose politics do not tilt libertarian. Including, Lonewacko, mindless lefties and xenophobic, conspiracy-mongering rightwingers..

[Jason Ligon]

What I think is goofy about immigration policy is that it isn’t neutral. Why should it be easier to get here from Mexico than from France?

Or is that bit popular myth …?

[Phil]

And, there was no MultiCultiCult

Nonsense. Immigrants have been (self-)organizing into insular ethnic enclaves since the U.S. was formed. Even today, much of the East Side of Cleveland and its suburbs is a patchwork of ethnic communities — Polish, Slovak, Serbian, Albanian — where English is a second language (when spoken at all), they maintain their own schools teaching in their languages, and a lot of businesses succeed by catering to them.

[joe]

I just don’t care about wacko’s concerns. I mean, even when he phrases them in overwrought language, exaggerates their scope and the threat they pose, and adopts the scariest interpretation of any quote or event, I still don’t care. Oh no, the Mexicans want to influence our policies! Whatever shall we do? I hope those Canadians don’t try to annex Maine! Is it just me? I feel like I’m being threatened withe a bubble wand.

Anyway, immigration laws are like drug laws; they don’t reduce the amount of the activity, they just make it more profitable, more violent, and more dangerous for the people who get involved with the government-created black market. Wacko’s worst case scenario looks a hell of a lot better than the hundreds of people who die in airtight trailers and endless deserts every year under the current regime.

[fyodor]

Good for you, Joe! When I told Wacko that if the SW US after massive Mexican immigration someday wants to join Mexico so what, he accused me of treason! So I accused him of Coulterism, heh… Of course, it’s far from obvious that Mexicans who come here would really want such a thing anyway, no matter what some Mexican politicians say.

[Tom from Texas]

I am on a first name basis with half a dozen Hispanic men, all brothers or cousins, who are not U.S. citizens and who came here in unorthodox manners. They all have settled down with American born wives or girlfriends, work any number of jobs including evenings and on weekends, have goals of opening their own businesses (one already has), have children whose English is at least as good as my own kids, and whose major aim is to have a happy, healthy prosperous life for their families.

Never once have I heard any of them mention Aztlan, the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo, returning the southwest to Mexico, taking over the Texas government, or milking the gringo cow dry. The only use they still have for the country of their birth is as a place to go for cheap dental work.

Granted, six men is just a sliver of a sliver of the entire “illegal” immigration situation, but I don’t lose sleep at night worrying about what these men are up to.

[SM]

Jason Ligon wrote –
“Why should it be easier to get here from Mexico than from France?

Or is that bit popular myth …?”

Depends on what you mean by “getting here” but it is almost certainly popular myth. As also with claims that you automatically become a citizen if your child is one by virtue of being born in the USA etc, etc. Unless you mean walking across the border which the French obviously cannot do.
If anything it is probably easier to get here from the EU, UK, Australia etc and overstay. I am simplifying this somewhat but many of these folks, by reciprocal agreement, are not required to get visas for short term stays & consular scrutiny for other kinds of visas is less stringent than for, ahem, certain other categories of human being. Lonewacko would approve.
Still, it’s a bit annoying to see illegals jump the queue. Oh well.

[Lonewacko]

Mona’s “argument” doesn’t seem to contain any facts. Do you have anything to say besides ad hominem smears and strawmen, Mona?

“Dan” doesn’t seem to be aware of his history, for someone who seems to know so much. First, Ireland has been Ireland for hundreds of years, whether the residents were struggling under the English or not. Second, getting into the U.S. via Ellis Island was actually fairly difficult. Steamship companies were charged an additional fee if someone they brought over was rejected. Did you know that, Dan?

Does “Phil” honestly think there was what is referred to as multiculturalism today away back in the 1800s and early 1900s? I’d suggest a little history lesson for Phil as well.

“Granted, six men is just a sliver of a sliver of the entire “illegal” immigration situation, but I don’t lose sleep at night worrying about what these men are up to.”

Yeah, Tom, great example. Say, why don’t you ask them what the Spanish-language media and the officials in Mexico are telling them? Ask them about public policy too, I’m sure they’re plugged into that.

[Lonewacko]

“As also with claims that you automatically become a citizen if your child is one by virtue of being born in the USA etc”

You don’t, however, those are referred to as “anchor babies.” They are able to sponsor their whole clan due to family reunification. That explains why there’s a service in Korea that flies women over here to have babies. When they grow up, the U.S. citizen child can then bring over everyone else. Hey, whatever, some people like being suckers.

“Lonewacko would approve”

Why is that, Mr. Anonymous?

[thoreau]

Living in CA, I have met precious few hispanics who seem interested in taking over the US, or whatever. There’s a reason they left their countries of origin, and it ain’t to act as loyal servants of the Mexican regime’s plans to conquer the US. (Many of them aren’t even Mexican, a fact often overlooked.)

I have yet to meet a hispanic who doesn’t want his or her kids fluent in English. Many of themwant to make sure their kids also know good Spanish, but even my 100% Aryan brother is fluent in Spanish because it makes good economic sense.

Another fun fact of life in CA:

I have some eye problems. I frequently see an eye doctor. Most of the people on his staff have hispanic accents. They all seem to know what they’re doing. I figure immigration can’t be such a bad thing if immigrants are keeping me from going blind in one eye.

And as a grad student in physics I’ve gotten more help than I can describe from students and postdocs on visas. I figure immigration can’t be all that bad if the immigrants are helping me get my Ph.D.

Oh, and when I was called up for jury duty recently, the plaintiff’s attorney (the plaintiff was a victim suing a convicted child molester for compensation) had a Spanish surname. I figure immigration can’t be all that bad if hispanics are suing child molesters.

Sure, there are plenty of undesirables with Spanish names. Well, guess what? I can rattle off plenty of undesirables with last non-Spanish names.

Final irony: I have a good friend from China who’s here on a student visa. A couple years ago he brought his wife over here. The law forbids her to work, even though she has some very marketable skills. (She’s even talked of starting her own business.) How ironic is it that she can get a job in China, but when she comes here she can’t get a job because she didn’t get permission from the government of this ostensibly capitalist country?

[thoreau]

Oh, I just remembered the one time I met a guy interested in conquering the US for Mexico. He was a drunken idiot in downtown LA. I was waiting for a bus one night, he was complaining half in Spanish and half in English about how Asians are taking over CA. My Japanese friend and I were getting pretty creeped out the louder he got. He was trying to persuade another hispanic (also waiting for the bus) to help him strike a blow against the wicked whites and Asians and reclaim California for Mexico. The other hispanic guy just ignored him while silently praying for the idiot to go away (the look on his face said it all).

So, let’s see, after 9.5 years in CA, I’ve encountered exactly one saboteur trying to reclaim CA for Mexico, and he’s a drunken idiot. I’ve also encountered thousands of normal people who enjoy living their lives and minding their own business.

If I don’t seem the least bit worried, that’s because I’m not.

[Lonewacko]

Wow, Thoreau, you’ve really opened my eyes. And here I thought all Hispanics were of Mexican descent and were all bad. Now, thanks to you, I know the truth.

As for my eye doctor, he’s from Lebanon, and his assistant is not only Mexican-American, she has a nice big rack.

Now that we’ve had that nice kumbaya moment, can we go back to discussing the attempts by the European elites of Mexico to erode U.S. sovereignty?

[Lonewacko]

“Oh, I just remembered the one time I met a guy interested in conquering the US for Mexico. He was a drunken idiot in downtown LA.”

You must not get around much or go to the proper areas. Let’s go to East L.A. or something. The smart young radicalized Mexican-Americans (MEChA members or not) are so easy to spot they practically have signs on their heads. And, I’ve run into plenty of them.

[Mona]

Lonewacko errs: “Mona’s “argument” doesn’t seem to contain any facts. Do you have anything to say besides ad hominem smears and strawmen, Mona?”

My argument is that the U.S. has repeatedly seen eras of anti-immigrant fervor in which scare-mongering and demonization about said immigrants are staples of the anti-immigrant position. When WASPs didn’t want Irish, Italians and Germans (some of whom of the latter were Lutheran and Jewish rather than Catholic) here, the perfidy of papists (and Jews) was the rallying cry, along with angst about their supposed squalid living and reproductive habits. Fastforward, and you find different, but equally unsupportable and some times (as in your case) febrile rantings, not infrequently offered by descendants of the Irish, Italians and Germans who were despised and unwanted in prior times. You were meant, in my sarcastic rant about anti-immigrant Know-Nothingism, to recognize yourself. But then, you knew that.

[Mona]

Lonewacki displays his lack of insight: “Second, getting into the U.S. via Ellis Island was actually fairly difficult. Steamship companies were charged an additional fee if someone they brought over was rejected. Did you know that, Dan?”

You are, no doubt purposely, knocking down a strawman. I imagine Dan is aware that it was difficult to raise funds to get on the boat, that the trip was seldom pleasant, and all that. His point, as you must have realized, is that there were few barriers to the immigrant’s getting into the country once off the boat. Some were turned away (generally for health reasons), but the vast majority got through. That continuued until people like you generated enough hysteria, and quatas began to be adopted. Now, not just any mick who wants in can get in.

So, Dan’s point that Mexicans today face legal barriers the Irish generally did not face, stands. Irishmen fleeing the heel of British persecution and potato famine for the freedom and opportunity of America, are no less sympathetic than the Mexcians who leave the poverty and corruption of Mexico. Have a heart, Lone.

[Mona]

Lone laments and asks: “can we go back to discussing the attempts by the European elites of Mexico to erode U.S. sovereignty?”

Sure thing, and I’d also like to delve into Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors and other 18th and 19th century papal documents excoriating notions such as those contained in the Bill of Rights, demanding Catholics not to assent to them, and otherwise prattling a lot of BS that embarrassed Catholics then and now. And which served as fodder for anti-immigrant hysteria.

Well, at least the literate and reading clergy that had time to learn of these papal pronouncments were chagrined. You see, most 19th century Catholic immigrants were kinda busy earning a living and raising kids, and didn’t spend a great deal of time contemplating that His Holiness wanted them to reject the very ideas that made it possible for them to thrive here. Not that your ideological forebears, the Know-Nothings, believed that commonsensical fact.

So Lone, ya REALLY think a whole lot of Mexican immigrants leave the squalor of Mexico for the U.S. so they can engage in a plot to turn us into what they left? Huh? Do ya really?

[SM]

Lonewacko wrote –
“You don’t, however, those are referred to as “anchor babies.” They are able to sponsor their whole clan due to family reunification.”

Great !!! Wacko makes it all sound easy except –
1. That entails a wait of only about 18/21 years + however much time it takes for “the whole clan” to wait in the family immigration queue. Contrary to myth this is a considerable period of time. I don’t know what the wait currently is but it used to be as much as 7-10 years. But if you believe in stealth infiltration and all that then i suppose it makes sense.
2. The “anchor baby” (sheesh!) has to show financial support for the “clan” he or she is sponsoring. I don’t know how much it works out to but a friend of mine who was sponsoring a cousin for a student visa had to show something like $15,000 in the bank.

Tu que pasa to that, LW ?

“Why is that, Mr. Anonymous?”

I kid you, LW. Heh heh …

[deist]

as an irish american i am always disapointed at the anti-immigration views that many irish-americans espouse. i would say that the majority of irish-americans are anti-immigration. i can’t think of one person in my family who is pro-immigration. they will always use the argument that they came to this country legally, unlike those “filthy” mexicans i guess. but before the 20th century there was no real organized system of immigration. sure irish immigrants were nationalized and registered to vote right after they came off of the boat by crooks like boss tweed or other racketeers who wanted to use the “green power” to their advantage. there wasn’t even a federal income tax until the 1900’s so what difference did it make whehter you were legal or illegal? as for ellis island, it didn’t even open as an immigration station until the 1890’s. because we had smaller goverment in the 19th century, the government didn’t get it involved in immigration, and it didn’t ask for your papers. it’s interesting that the people who are against immigration, never really mention that we have illegal immigrants who come from china and even northern ireland. i know, and my parents know plenty of illegal immigrants who have come here from northern ireland, mostly because they are running from the law. my parents don’t have a problem with these illegal immigrants. even if we could clamp down on illegal immigration, it woudln’t stop illegal immigrants from getting into this country, it would only hurt our civil liberties because a more intrusive federal government is never good for freedom.

[Mona]

And you should see O’Sullivan wringing his hands about this over at NR. Amazing. Did you know that this easing immigration restrictions will take jobs from poor Americans, especially minorities, and also drive wages down? They become economically illiterate over there, to an egregious degree, only when immigration is an issue. For a fellow named O’Sullivan to take on that hue hue and cry is doubly ironic.

Mona Holland, nee Walsh — who is glad that Irish may now apply.

[SM]

Mona wrote –
“You are, no doubt purposely, knocking down a strawman. I imagine Dan is aware that it was difficult to raise funds to get on the boat”.

Rest assured Mona – that is indeed a strawman. LW is comparing apples to oranges. These days there is no Ellis Island; the equivalent is a tortuous process that is spread in time across many years & is probably many orders of magnitude harder to qualify for in most cases. These days the airline or the country of origin, i am not clear which, is required to bear the cost of returning the passenger to whereever he came from if rejected at a US port. This is why the airline/customs at the point of departure will check to see that you have a return ticket if you are on a non-immigrant or short term visa.
You are already talking several thousand dollars.
Frankly, I don’t see how the Theory of Cultural Hispanization & Irrendentism or whatever LW is talking about is credible. The only way this will happen is if there is a fantastic scientific renaissance or economic miracle out of spain or mexico or argentina & everybody decides to hitch their wagons to the winning horse. What i think, anyway.

[joe]

NRO loves to see lower paid foreigners working at jobs that used to pay good wages to Americans – just as long as they don’t have to smell their cooking and listen to their accents.

[fyodor]

Mona, at the risk of repeating an old cliche, it’s actually ironic for anyone in this country. Of course, it’s ironic for anyone anywhere cause if there’s one universal to humanity it’s movement of ja people!

[dj of raleigh]

> Remember the country the United States used to belong to? Think hard now. 🙂

[yelowd]

Not to be cynical, but this is good for bush for two reasons: 1) hopefully, increased hispanic voter loyalty to him and Republicans
2) Increased tax base. Most illegals don’t shell out taxes since they work under the table type stuff.

[joe]

Has Bush ever displayed enough sack to conclude that he’d fight for this against the opposition of the hard-right Congressional (especially House) Republican leadership? Especially when he looks at how Clinton lost the Democratic majority in Congress when he “triangulated” them on NAFTA and welfare reform.

Any examples of Bush pushing hard against GOP opposition?

[SM]

Good Grief ! LW is right. There really is a S Korean plot to export “anchor babies” into the US and them wait for 21+ years to reap the benefits. Apparently these dutiful confucians will even shell out big bucks to sponsor the clan. Now if only i could get my Japanese sister-in-law to lend me $50.

[thoreau]

My understanding is that the Mexican government is buttering up Mexican nationals in the US to try and keep them sending money back home. A lot of immigrants (legal or otherwise) send money to relatives back home. For poor countries with large diasporas these remittances are non-trivial contributions to their economy.

Some countries also value strong ties with their diasporas in hopes that some of their comparatively affluent expatriates will return and use their business connections in the US to enrich their economies.

And what is the Mexican government’s incentive in all of this? The more money their citizens have, the more taxes they get.

Now, what is Gil Cedillo’s incentive to promote driver’s licenses for illegals?

a) He wants illegals to fraudulently vote for him to benefit Gil Cedillo’s career
b) US citizens of hispanic descent in his district sympathize (for one reason or another) with illegals seeking driver’s licenses, and Cedillo wants to keep those voting citizens happy
c) Gil Cedillo wants illegals to get driver’s licenses for the benefit of the Mexican government rather than the benefit of Gil Cedillo

I’d say the truth may be a combination of (a) and (b). (a) is a very disturbing possibility, (b) is rather innocuous, and (c) is too self-less to be seen as a credible motive. Why would Gil Cedillo care about anybody other than Gil Cedillo?

So, I can believe that US politicians have selfish motives in some of the immigration-related developments that LoneWacko laments, but I cannot believe that this is an attempt to turn the US into Mexico.

[Dan]

First, Ireland has been Ireland for hundreds of years, whether the residents were struggling under the English or not.

By that logic, Texas and California are ALREADY part of Mexico. After all, they used to be. We just invaded them, took them, and said they were part of us. Just like England did with Ireland.

So really, when a Mexican sneaks across the border into Texas, it’s the same as when an Irishman sneaks across the border from the Republic to British-ruled Northern Ireland.

At least, if you live in Lonewacko’s Bizarro World.

Of course, back here in reality, Mexicans (unlike the Irish) have embraced the fact that “their” land is part of a different country now. I’ve never met a Mexican living here who didn’t give thanks to God that Southern California is NOT part of Mexico anymore.

After all, if California was part of Mexico, they’d have had to move all the way to Oregon to find work in the United States. And the weather there really blows. 🙂

[Lonewacko]

“Good Grief ! LW is right. There really is a S Korean plot to export “anchor babies” into the US and them wait for 21+ years to reap the benefits.”

Your sarcasm has really affected my position. No longer will I think there’s an SK plot. But, then again, I never thought that. However, anyone with reasoning skills can see that if %1 of the babies born to SK mothers are U.S. anchor babies, there must be some reason.

If you had read the articles, you would see that there’s no need to wait even one day to start reaping the benefits. Those benefits include: health care paid for by our welfare state, other benefits paid for by our welfare state, and exemption from the SK military. Do try and read the links provided please.

[Lonewacko]

“For poor countries with large diasporas these remittances are non-trivial contributions to their economy… Some countries also value strong ties with their diasporas in hopes that some of their comparatively affluent expatriates will return and use their business connections in the US to enrich their economies.”

Remittances are in the top three (legal) income sources for Mexico with oil and tourism.

Hey, maybe it’s all innocent. Maybe all those things Mexican politicians and thought leaders say were just because… er, they have Tourett’s Syndrome. Yeah, that’s it, they have Tourett’s. Now, go stick your head back in the sand and don’t read anymore of the many quotes I’ve already provided and can continue providing.

“Why would Gil Cedillo care about anybody other than Gil Cedillo?”

Because he’s a racial demagogue?

[Lonewacko]

“By that logic, Texas and California are ALREADY part of Mexico. After all, they used to be. We just invaded them, took them, and said they were part of us. Just like England did with Ireland.”

Well, Dan, can you see the problem with your “argument?” And, are you aware of the historical event that supports my arguments?

When I say that Ireland has always been Ireland, I wasn’t referring to the land, I was referring to the people. Do you understand yet?

You see, telling the Irish that they were now British was nice and all. But, almost all of them still considered themselves Irish and from Ireland.

If only the descendents of the original residents of CA and TX were the ones living there, then we might be able to say that CA and TX were still Mexico, even if they were technically part of the U.S. However, plenty of Americans moved into CA and TX, meaning that even if some people still considered themselves Mexican, everyone else considered themselves Americans.

As for one of the parts of Irish history that supports my arguments, read this: “King James, a wily and pragmatic monarch, brought the Protestants to “His Majesty?s Plantation of Ulster” to form a buffer zone and strengthen royal control of the North of Ireland from the generally hostile (to English rule!), native Irish Roman Catholic population…”

Further, Dan writes: “Mexicans (unlike the Irish) have embraced the fact that “their” land is part of a different country now.”

Read the links, Dan. Like this one:

The territory lost in the 19th century by…Mexico…seems to be restoring itself through a humble people who go on settling various zones that once were ours on the old maps. Land, under any concept of possession, ends up in the hands of those who deserve it…. [The result of this migration is to return the land] to the jurisdiction of Mexico without the firing of a single shot.

[SM]

Glad to be of service, LW my dear friend.
But it is my painful duty as a fellow American to remind you that your original contention was as follows –

“You don’t, however, those are referred to as “anchor babies.” They are able to sponsor their whole clan due to family reunification.”

My reasoning abilities, which my GRE scores say are excellent (just thought to mention it innocently), tell me that this process will neccessarily take 21+ many years unless these S Koreans and Mexican clans have access to a time machine. It’s hardly my fault that you suddenly changed the subject.
BTW I don’t doubt that the immigration process is abused by some or even many.

[SM]

LW: Well then, stop making idiotic claims about anchor babies being a viable scheme to sneak an entire clan in and then whining when someone points out how absurd this sounds.

[Lonewacko]

SM: Please stop wasting my time and that of the dwindling number of readers of these comments with your inanities. Just because I mentioned that one benefit of anchor babies was their serving as an anchor does not foreclose on there being other benefits. Some of those benefits are listed in the links provided.

[dhex]

“And if there’s any poltical force more powerful than radical-chic kids, it’s radical chic minority kids from low income ethnic neighboroods.”

that’s the funniest thing written this entire new year. you can make fun of his former ponytail all you want, but joe’s got personality in spades.

btw, i live near a giant enclave of polish folk, and a less giant grouping of puerto ricans and orthodox jews, respectively. all of whom have been in their spots a good 50 years or more. most of whom still speak their own native language and many of whom speak english only grudgingly. you get by, you know. so hard and all, having to repeat yourself occassionally, but you do get by. 🙂

[joe]

“You must not get around much or go to the proper areas. Let’s go to East L.A. or something. The smart young radicalized Mexican-Americans (MEChA members or not) are so easy to spot they practically have signs on their heads.”

And if there’s any poltical force more powerful than radical-chic kids, it’s radical chic minority kids from low income ethnic neighboroods.

[joe]

Is it just me? LW’s 12:47 post doesn’t scare me at all, either.

Look, dude, you’re conflating a simple, familiar, been-there-done-that demographic shift by millions of people going about their lives with the lunatic empire building dreams of a tiny, irrelevant cadre of theorists and fuzzy-headed radicals. So what if a few states down there see their % of Hispanics tick up a few points? We’ve seen non-Anglo, English-as-a-second-language communities grow in the this country before. A few demogogues have even tried to shoehorn a political career out of “loyalty to the homeland.” The vast multitudes don’t buy it, have never bought it, and never will buy it.

[Lonewacko]

“And if there’s any poltical force more powerful than radical-chic kids, it’s radical chic minority kids from low income ethnic neighboroods.”

Good one, Joe! Except for the fact that the types of people I’m referring to are now powerful politicians. Want a list? Cruz Bustamante, Antonio Villaraigosa (current L.A. councilman, former choice of the Democratic party to be mayor of L.A.), CA State Sen. Gil Cedillo (Mr. driver’s licenses for illegal aliens), Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), and Frederico Pena:

“Earlier in 1975, as a teacher I remember attending a rally on bilingual education. It was being conducted on the steps of the capital in Denver by a guy in a red bandanna and long black hair, ripped jeans and a megaphone. They were
handing out leaflets, one of which read, “Return to Aztlan.” It gave a series of steps to be taken to re-establish Aztlan, and the first one said, “Be sure the mother tongue is retained in the school system.” That’s when it really hit
me that this was about politics, not education. So I ran for the state legislature. I won and began trying to attack that whole concept of
bilingual education. By the way, the same guy who was on the steps of the capital also ran and
won; he cut his hair, got a suit and went on to become the minority leader in the Colorado House of Representatives. His name is Frederico Pena. He later became mayor of Denver and eventually state Secretary of Transportation and Secretary of Energy.”

Once again, we see that people like Joe just don’t know what they’re talking about. The young MEChA-types of today will grow up to be the Bustamantes et al. of tomorrow.

[Mark A.]

What, no acknowledgement of the Led Zeppelin reference yet? Isn’t that sort of thing obligatory?

[Lonewacko]

Mona writes: “My argument is that the U.S. has repeatedly seen eras of anti-immigrant fervor in which scare-mongering and demonization about said immigrants are staples of the anti-immigrant position.”

“Anti-immigrant” and “attempt to sharply reduce illegal immigration and reform current immigration laws” don’t seem to me to be the same thing. Your “anti-immigrant” phrase would thus seem to be a strawman, no?

As for the demonization part, even people like Glenn Spencer don’t usually stoop that low, now do they?

Most of the “hysteria” involves the lack of attention paid to pandering by U.S. politicians, antagonistic statements made by Mexican officials, antagonistic statements made by the Race Industry, etc. etc.

Further, Mona writes: “I imagine Dan is aware that it was difficult to raise funds to get on the boat, that the trip was seldom pleasant, and all that.”

You missed the point. The steamship companies were fined if they brought over someone who was rejected. Therefore, they made sure to screen the people they brought over. 98% of the people who made it to Ellis Island got in, and that’s because the steamship companies made sure to bring people who wouldn’t get rejected. Capisce?

“Have a heart, Lone”

When making public policy, it’s best to have a brain as well.

Yet mo’ Mona: “So Lone, ya REALLY think a whole lot of Mexican immigrants leave the squalor of Mexico for the U.S. so they can engage in a plot to turn us into what they left? Huh? Do ya really?”

Mona, are you so far gone that you need to lamely try to put words in my mouth?

Let’s try a little thought experiment. Why do you think Gil Cedillo wants to give driver’s licenses to illegal aliens? If you said “public safety,” immediately cancel your ISP account. Gil wants votes and power. Gil is looking to expand his constituency. Are you with me so far? Now, other people would like that constituency as well. Those other people include the government and elites of Mexico. They would love to have millions of people inside the U.S. who are more or less on their side. Makes sense, no?

Now, do they do things to encourage that? Yes, they do. They recently tried to take a census of U.S. soldiers of Mexican extraction. They have a ‘getting closer’ program. They offer dual citizenship. There are more Mexican consulates in the U.S. than any other country has. Mexican media is available all throughout the U.S. The Mexican government works with U.S. advocacy groups and – believe it or not – U.S. politicians.

Why would Mexico do all these things? Why would they concentrate all this effort on their citizens in the U.S. and even on U.S. citizens of Mexican descent? Is it because they’re nice people? Is it because they “have a heart?”

Or, is it because they see a possibility for power?

“SM” has questions about anchor babies. Articles here, here, here, and here (“At least 5,000 South Korean ?anchor babies??about 1 percent of annual South Korean births?are born in the U.S. each year”) answer those questions.

Some ijit writes: “as an irish american i am always disapointed…”

Come back when you’re coherent.