Apparently I Sued Citibank

My latest Citibank Visa bill includes a credit for 73 cents, my share of the "SCHWARTZ SETTLEMENT REFUND." As a reader of Overlawyered.com noted last month (along with many other people who scrutinize credit card bills faster than I do), the money comes from an $18 million fund created to settle a class action lawsuit challenging Citibank's 10 a.m. deadline for payments. The refunds ostensibly are compensation for inappropriate late fees, but a Citibank recording explains that it was impossible to allocate the money with any precision and that qualifying customers generally received less than a dollar. The lawyers got $9 million.

Comments

[Equality 7-2521]

My lawyer friends tell me that they are actually doing you a big service by bringing these lawsuits. If it weren't for them, Citibank could scam you for 73 cents anytime they wanted to. Nine million is a fair price to pay for that kind of protection.

[Rebekah]

Sorry, but I disagree. Nine million is definitely NOT a fair price to pay for any kind of protection. If I wanted protection I'd go to the damned government and ask for a little oversight. And by the way, isn't it interesting that lawyers are telling you its a good deal. Well I'm training to become one and it isn't a good deal. Not by a long shot. When 1 attorney gets paid millions of dollars and the people who were defrauded get coupons or less than a dollar in damages, then the justice system has done the bigger disservice to the consumer. And by the way, I don't appreciate being made a plaintiff when I haven't sought legal protection nor was asked to be represented. It's just wrong.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Rebekah, far be it from me to speak for Equality 7-2521, but I think he or she is being facetious.

[thoreau]

I have an AT&T Universal Card, administered by CitiBank. They occasionally try to get me to sign up for some sort of "free trial" on one program or another. It's almost impossible to get them to not do the free trial, so I have to remember to call them at the right time to cancel the trial. I have a second credit card, and once my credit limit on that card increases I'll probably drop my Citibank card.

The worst thing they ever did: They froze the card, allegedly because of some suspicious transactions. This caused a bunch of hassle, and when I finally got through to them they rattled off some purchases that my wife makes every week (gas, groceries, pharmacy). However, while they were waiting to "access my account", they wanted to tell me about some free trial or another. I kept trying to get past it and get to the allegedly suspicious charges (sure takes a while to access that account...), and they kept talking about this special offer. Finally I agreed to the free trial so they'd move on and tell me about some dubious charges that turned out to be innocuous.

Needless to say, as soon as the paperwork on my free trial arrived I called to cancel.

The things I put up with for a huge credit limit and cash back...

[digamma]

I got $2 out of the class-action lawsuit against Milli Vanilli. Damn I'm cool.

[joe]

"Nine million is a fair price to pay for that kind of protection." What pay? Did you have to pay anything?

Citibank was screwing around. The wages of this screwing around were $9 million, plus $0.73xsomenumber of customers. Plus legal fees. As economic determinists, don't you think providing a big disincentive to screwing around is a good thing?

[Jason Ligon]

Tim,

I don't know Equality 7-2521 very well, but I do know that lawyers say that sort of thing all the time. My cousin has all sorts of stories about his compatriots to that effect ...

[arthur]

Since my Citibank card was defunct, I got a check for twelve cents in the mail. the cost of postage was 37 cents. the sot of processing the check if I cash it will be a little bit more.

"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's class acitons."

[rst]

don't you think providing a big disincentive to screwing around is a good thing?

The cost goes back to the consumer. Citibank will recoup their paltry $10-20 million losses with increased fees and interest because they can, the lawyers got rich because they speak legalese, and Citibank's customers got .73 cents. Where's the disincentive?

[joe]

rst, if a private individual who showed harm and won before a jury cost Citibank that money, one could make the same argument. So now you're not arguing against blind class action lawsuits. You're arguing against anything that costs corporations money. And I note you're mute on the issue of merit.

Are you actually saying corporations should never be held responsible for their actions if it lowers their profits, because they might try to recoup through prices? That's the implication of what you wrote.

Or, to argue from a libertoid perspective, credit companies that don't screw around don't pay fines, don't have to raise fees to make up the cost, and their lower prices will attract Citibank customers.

[mak_nas]

The cost goes back to the consumer.

or the employees -- one of the reasons i've often wondered why anticorporate crusaders bother. in the end, they usually are screwing the customers of such companies. even when absolutely successful -- that is, they manage to kill the companies they hate so very, very much -- they may temporarily displace a few bad seeds, but destroy the livelihoods of some hundreds or thousands of families whose lives revolve around the wages they drew for evilcorp.

obviously, there must be some law and penalties for breaking the law, and no employment is risk-free. but too frequently it is taken to extreme ends with little reason, and that to sate their crusader's sentimental religious zeal. i cannot understand that as anything but selfish and irrational, in the end.

[Ruthless]

joe,
As an ignorant, disinterested reader, I'd say you're winning this one.
The concern most people have with lawyers--and unions--is the high probability of under-the-table deals with government.
There's also the concern lawyers are smarter than most of us thus tempted to snooker us.

[joe]

And aren't lawsuits to recover damages the preferred libertarian solution to problems currently addressed by regulations?

[thoreau]

Joe-

Lawsuits are allegedly the preferred method of dealing with problems. But many posters here believe that people should just leave corporations alone and accept whatever they do, should stop protesting against the government, and should stop worrying about anything other than guns and taxes.

[bigbigslacker]

They sent me a check for 4 cents and explained I could write them a letter to request a more detailed explanation. Tempted as I was...

[rst]

You're arguing against anything that costs corporations money.

How silly a conclusion to draw. You ran so far with that I'm not even going to try to bring you back to reality.

And aren't lawsuits to recover damages the preferred libertarian solution to problems currently addressed by regulations?

Just in case...I know I've had to explain it s-l-o-w-l-y to some...I'm not a libertarian.

[AgentAlbert]

How was Citibank screwing around? So they had a 10 am cutoff time while MBNA had a 12 noon cutoff time. And customers made a bunch of late payments and got ticked. A class action lawsuit protects responsible consumers how? This is similar to the class action lawsuits against Blockbuster and Columbia House Record Club. Blockbuster charged people late fees. People brought stuff back late a lot, and paid hefty fees. People got upset, even though it was their fault -- class action lawsuit, big payment to the lawyers, and I got a coupon for a free rental. With Columbia House I got a coupon to buy a regular priced cd at $7.99, which was worthless as nobody buys anything from Columbia House at regular price anyway. But the lawyers made out big "PROTECTING" us. As said earlier, this serves no public good. This is inventive lawyers tapping into any revenue stream they can.

[mojo jojo]

I'll bet 73 cents that one of the lawyers at that firm had a late fee imposed by Citibank and decided to get some revenge. 9 million dollars worth! As for needing crooks err... I mean "lawyers" to protect us thats pure bunk. If you don't like what a business is doing DON'T USE THAT BUSINESS!!!! Duh.

[dave]

If I were a lawyer I would want to make $9 million. So I can't blame them...

[AgentAlbert]

Exactly, Mojo. It's not like we don't have enough choices with regard to credit cards in this country.

[joe]

Agent Al,

"How was Citibank screwing around?"

I have no comment on the merits of the case, other than to note that 12 citizens (or one experienced trial judge) who knew a lot more than you or I agreed unanimously that Citibank was liable for damages.

My comments were addressed to the anti-lawyer sentiment generally, and the anti-class action (you can get away with it if you screw a lot of people for a little each) sentiment in particular.

[mojo jojo]

joe,

This wasn't a judgement it was a settlement. As in, out of court, we'll pay you shysters 9 mil to go away, type of settlement.

[Will Spencer]

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

This group of lawyers may have only made you $.73, but they cost you nothing.

That's a whole lot cheaper than anything the government has ever done for (or against) you.

[cj]

Sorry, the Blockbuster comment hit home.

In my personal experience, Blockbuster DID NOT simply charge legitimate late fees. They either rigged their software or had a corporate policy to charge late fees on rentals that were turned in on time (i.e., staff not processing returns in a timely manner). Again, that is MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the company. (And not simply, gee, I "remember" returning it on time; but, after many suspicious late charges, logging my returns against what their "computer" said.) I even wrote my state attorney general to alert them to this practice -- to my knowledge, prior to when this became a class action lawsuit.

The problem with class action lawsuits today, is that legitimate grievances by consumers are afforded little or no compensation -- lawyers profit, while there is little or no addressing of compensation to consumers, and damn little disincentive to the fraudulant company.

Remember when Microsoft's "settlement" was that they would provide 'free' computer systems to schools? De facto, their "penalty" was ensuring a future market for their products.

I should be so lucky that my sins are thus compensated...

[vahluree]

Has anyone noticed the a change in terms? APRs jump to 23.99% if you go over limit or make a late payment. For a platinum card, I don't call that platinum rates. And for a company that just lost a lawsuit for fraudulent charges, this just looks like a bold attempt to pay for the loses to me. I don't think I'll be accepting these changes. I'll take business elsewhere.

[blah]

As long as we're piling on Joe:
...agreed unanimously that Citibank was liable for damages

Were that this were a judgement and not a settlement it would still be a judgement in a civil case and, if I'm not mistaken, though I very well may be since I'm not a lawyer, the jury requirement for guilt in civil cases is not unanimity.

[matt]

cj,

I worked at blockbuster on and off for 3 years, so I have to come to their defense (well, sorta).

At my store the return time was changed from 12 midnight to 12 noon the next day (I think that's been about 4 years ago), which was supposed to give you 12 more hours to return your rentals.

Anyway, some people never seemed realize that items were due at noon and not midnight (despite the fact that we told you when you left, it was all over the store, and on the receipt).

Usually if it was a first or second offense we'd take it off (especially if they were just a few hours late). But I can't speak for every store, and we certainly had some boneheads, idiots and morons work at my store.

Usually, if an employee didn't scan in a tape one of us could go find it on the shelf and take the late fee off. But like I said, it varies with every store. Some are managed well and others not so well. I guess that's what you get when you hire teenagers and college kids...it's hit and miss.

[beau]

Matt- while you found it necessary to defend blockbuster, I find it necessary to defend teens and college kids... Carefull what you say about hiring teenage and college kids... most of the time poor customer service comes from poor management. The manager's attitude sets the example.

[thoreau]

I didn't hear about the free computers for schools, but it's also interesting that the settlement involved free computers for government schools, but nothing for the allegedly wronged consumers.

[Rebekah]

No one is saying that corporations shouldn't be punished if they are caught doing something wrong. A 10 am cutoff time on the day that a payment is due, is hardly wrong doing. You may not like it, and quite frankly, I think boycotting that company is far more effective in implementing the changes that a consumer would typically seek. It's cost effective towards the consumer, and towards the employees that work at said company who may get axed because the company can no longer afford to keep them due to large settlements or judgments.

Which also brings me to the settlement of the Citibank fiasco. The word settlement actually means there was no trial. No jury decided anything nor did any judge. In fact, Citibank made the decision that it didn't want to take a chance with a jury.

Now perhaps you think that this indicates that they did something wrong. You would be naive and wrong in making that assumption. It's just the cost of doing business in an environment when stupid lay people sit on a jury who really can't be bothered to pay attention to make some determination with regards to guilt if there is any. And when I say stupid juries, I mean exactly that. I have witnessed numerous juries and they are too busy looking around, dozing off, daydreaming, and basically not comprehending the accumulation of many years worth of material and legalese that both legal teams have put into the trial. In fact, a trial can be down right boring. And have you ever listened to the long litany that the judge gives a jury afterwards with regards to the law and what they can and cannot do? If lawyers need 3 years to learn all that shit, then what makes you think that 12 men and/or women will get it in a few hours!?

[Athena]

I was amazed by the .7 cent check I received to the point I had to scan/email it to all in my world. Of course, this action opened the flood gates and stories abound of similar checks BUT theirs were a bit more...sigh. Since I am not a current "victim" of Citibank, they couldn't "credit" my account nor did they think the amount would warrent my contacting them or cashing the check. What a true waste of .7 cents, plus all the cents that will NEVER be cashed. Who truly is the winner here?

[Athena]

I was amazed by the .7 cent check I received to the point I had to scan/email it to all in my world. Of course, this action opened the flood gates and stories abound of similar checks BUT theirs were a bit more...sigh. Since I am not a current "victim" of Citibank, they couldn't "credit" my account nor did they think the amount would warrant my contacting them or cashing the check. What a true waste of .7 cents, plus all the cents that will NEVER be cashed. Who truly is the winner here?

[David Anshus]

Glad to hear of your seventy three cents.
I received a check for $771.65. This is the delayed fruit for leading a disorderly life, being late more often than not. And at the right time, too.

[Josh]

Today, I received my Citibank credit card statement and noticed a credit for 9 cents on account of the "Schwartz Settlement Refund". I have a balance of $3,078. This nine cents should really help me pay off this credit card in no time now. Thanks Citibank!

[matt]

beau,

I'm in college myself (graduate in may) so I wasn't trying to imply young people were all poor employees. It's just that a lot of people my age and younger aren't all that responsible (I agree management does play a part). All else being equal though, if I had a choice between hiring someone my age and hiring someone older, I'd probably hire the older person almost every time.

[Jaybee]

ANY godamned "corporation" in this godamned country is godamned corrupt. As is the godamned government.
Throw in the godamned towel. Your balls are theirs.

[Jaybee]

ANY god damned "corporation" in this god damned country is god damned corrupt. As is the god damned government.
Throw in the god damned towel. Your balls are theirs.
"freedom"???? LOL!!!

[FuckCitibank]

hey guys, please visit these forums and share your horror stories! The more experiences posted the better:

http://www.fuckcitibank.com
http://www.buckcitibank.com

[Me]

Citibank is a great company. They have helped millions of people all over the world generate wealth.

Don't critize this corporation because you are jealous of their success or size.

Embrace Citibank and do not fight it.