Alex P. Keatons of the World, Unite

New at Reason: Every few years, there's a new political schema for the rising generation. The kids born after [alarmingly recent year] are coming into their own, and it turns out that unlike [Generation TK], they're reacting against the [right or left] dogmas and [neglectful/stern/too attentive] parenting attitudes that shaped their elders. It's the unexpected return of [a certain value system] that just a few years ago seemed to be dead and gone.

And as it happens, that's my value system too!

It always makes a good story. And as Julian Sanchez demonstrates, it's all a bunch of horse puckey.

Comments

[CollegeReasonAddict]

You are absolutely right… I go to an Ivy League university, supposedly the best and brightest, and yet everyone I know either is in love with government as it is, or just thinks, as Julian says, “If we only had the right people (meaning MY people)”… It’s sad, but when I mention ideas like individual liberties and small government, I am looked at like a crazy person. The innocent have no reason to hide!

[A Newer]

I seriously do not understand what Sanchez’s articles is saying as a whole. What is his verdict for the generation I supposedly belong to?

I have a feeling that this is another one of those “the next generation is bad news and these are the reasons why . . .”

So, could someone be kind enough to clear up the article to its key ideas and components?

[Hovig John Heghinian]

People are seldom libertarian, because libertarianism requires trust. Leftists think everyone else is selfish, and rightists think everyone else is out of control. Since most people distrust everyone else by nature, the only thing that changes from generation to generation is whether the droplet on the knife’s edge drips toward distrust of one form, or the other.

[Russ]

Libertarian’s don’t necessarily trust others; they own firearms.

[Jim Walsh]

I recall the story of Socrates (or was it Aristotle? Plato?) railing about society’s future at the hands of the younger generation. It this real or an urban legend? Anyone?

[PapayaSF]

I don’t have a source, but I recall reading years ago that there are ancient Egyptian heiroglyphics decrying how the young have no respect for their elders and how everything is going to hell.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that it’s never true!

[Brad S]

I think Julian is correct – many members of the youngest generation are simply confused. They may label themselves “Conservatives” because they support Bush and they support the Iraq war, but in reality Bush and his cronies, with their big government spending and willingness to trample on civil liberties of private citizens via the (GAG) Patriot Act, are anything but Conservative. Ironic? Yes. Predictable? Well, we’re talking about college kids here. College kids tend, by nature, to be somewhat “anti-establishment.” Given that over 90% of professors and faculty on college campuses these days are bonafide left-wingers, the left is clearly the “establishment” in college.

[ChrisTHamrin]

>I recall the story of Socrates (or was it >Aristotle? Plato?) railing about society’s >future at the hands of the younger generation. >It this real or an urban legend? Anyone?

I read that in some book Isaac Asmov did called something like 10000 facts. It was in a work by Plato though I don’t know what person he was writing as there or which book, but I trust Mr. Asmov.

Everybody always thinks everythings going to shit at the hands of the next generation. What people forget is most of every generation is made up of idiots. Nor do I think this new generation, of which I am a part of, is any more conformist than any other.

And about libertarians trusting people, I do think those on the right or left ultimately have a worse conception of mankind than libertarians as both of them want to control people, just differently. Except any conservatives masquerading as libertarians, of course.

As for college kids being ‘anti-establishment’ I really don’t think so. This assumption is always made because those that are anti-establishment are so much more vocal than the disinterested masses.

[Sir Real]

A member of of the generation discussed in this article wants SOME RANDOM STRANGER to “clear up the article to its key ideas and components”.

Of course, the article in question is mainly about how the kids of the current generation place TOO MUCH TRUST in strangers.

Savor the Irony, people…

[Ron]

Well, I’m a student at possibly the best college in the country, and I agree with Julian. There is no overwhelming left bias amongst students. We have a decent distribution across the political spectrum. However, no one, not even the Republicans, are willing to support individualism. The thinking is always collectivist. I’ve seen people endorse all sorts of totalitarian ideas – with the precondition that “good, dedicated people would have to be in charge.” A basic skepticism and distrust for government, or respect for one’s fellow man, is absent.

[thoreau]

As an undergrad I went to a university where the student body is more conservative than your typical campus (although still more liberal than the general population, probably). I was of course a liberal, although never an extreme liberal.

In grad school I’m at a university where the student body is very liberal. Of course my first instinct was to rebel. But I sure as hell couldn’t become a conservative. So now I’m a libertarian. Although I think the libertarian conversion would have happened no matter what, since my undergraduate minor was economics. If you study enough microeconomics you’ll inevitably start to sympathize with libertarian ideas, even if you don’t become a purist (I certainly haven’t).

[cj]

I have worked for the past 17 years at a second-tier university that is quickly devolving to third-tier.

Seeing as how our univ. is always the last to jump on a bandwagon headed over the cliff, I agree that COLLECTIVISM is strong — in all levels of the educational system (I also have young children in elementary education).

To the person who asked what the point of the article is, I’ll repeat — COLLECTIVISM. To those without personal history or immediate recollection of the dangers of collectivism, and who have been exposed to this indoctrination throughout their educational experience, I’m sure the negative is lost to them.

Of course, they could research North Korea for a living example. But I’m not sure they’ve been schooled in the critical analysis and logical thinking required to reach an independent conclusion.

[Joe]

It’s interesting that an article supposedly deflating generalist arguments about a generation does so with another sweeping generalization… The thrust of it seems to be, “Those people who think this whole generation is one way is wrong. This whole generation is actually this other way.” Whatever. Generation after generation the kids have basically been the same, as have people like Julian who see the benighted masses through crap-colored glasses.

[kevrob]

It is too soon to judge where the Millenials (from Strauss & Howe’s “Generations”, BTW) will tend to fall on the political map. It depends, according to S&H’s theory, on what the signal organizing event for those just starting to vote and identify with political parties will have seemed to be. If it is the 9/11 attacks, then we might be in for a long period of support for a strong military. If the recovery stalls before the 2004 election, the tendency to trust the government in foregn policy may be echoed in statist economic policy, much as it was for the WWII “G.I. generation,” which reacted to the Great Depression and to Pearl Harbor. If Bushie and the timing of the business cycle arrange themselves so that unemployment is well down by November 2004, support for tax cuts may become engrained. Social issues are the wild card. I couldn’t guess whether agitiation for such as “gay marriage/civil unions” will solidify an atmosphere of tolerance, or energize a successful backlash, frex.

Kevin

[Julian Sanchez]

Joe-
I make no claim to be “deflating generalist arguments.” I’m suggesting that I’ve got a better generalization; that’s all.

[Joe Majsterski]

I actually think this supposed trend among the post 1981 generation is just part of a larger, vaguely rightward, but primarly pro-government, trend in society. Having a Republican executive and legislative branch has shown that the right really is as interested as the left in spending lots of our money, just for different goals. So the problem is that people are no longer arguing about whether money should be spent. Democrats are now attacking each other over this. Dick Gephart was recently saying how awful Howard Dean is because he sided with Newt Gingrich in wanting to slow the growth of Medicare in the 1990s. This is seen as a mortal sin now! Individualism is really in trouble these days, but it’s not limited to the youngest generation.

[Rex Stetson]

Julian seems to be arguing that the Gen Y Kids are centrists- with faith in institutions over individuals, but willing to rebel against the establishment when it goes “too far”- Patriot Act, War in Iraq. Not exactly collectivists or nationalists, but a divided mix.
It makes sense that libertarians would decry the new generation as “going to hell” if they become radical centrists. They’re worse than the hardcore liberals and conservatives that we can usually agree with 50% of the time.

It was my reading that Julian was concerned over the new Generation taking the worst elements of both groups- the collectivist, big gov’t inclinations.
Am I misreading him?

[Madog]

Here at Yale, most of the students who are aout there being politically active are pretty left wing. There was a lot of support for Nader last election, and they seem to be favoring Dean for this one. Of course, New Haven is a town where the Greens are just as powerful as the Republicans, so it’s probably not the best example.

My experience talking to people in their early 20s is that most of them want the government to leave them alone, are extremely tolerant of other people (except when it comes to smoking in public if their non-smokers themselves), and want lower taxes. When you get into specific issues however, they usaually want the government to do something about it (i.e., force people to think the way they do). Of course, few of them have ever voted, and know little about politics, so it doesn’t really matter in the end.