Crossovers

I see there's some sort of Hit and Run / Corner cross-mojination going on… and now I can't get that episode of the Danny Thomas Show where they go to Mayberry and meet Andy Griffith out of my head.

Anyway, pending specification of my "stolen bases," I suppose I'll reply to Jonah Goldberg's comments. First, have there been folks who overstated how bad PATRIOT was? Sure… but do we have to wade through that mire before talking about a set of particular arguments? If one gets to be a hawk without having to constantly defend "invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity," I think its fair to say civil libertarians aren't required to stand by every wild statement made by someone who doesn't like PATRIOT.

Second, I don't know whether the term "fifth columnist" has been applied to PATRIOT skeptics in particular, and didn't mean to imply that. I was just taking a frivolous shot at an annoying phrase I've seen bandied about the blogosphere to describe those bad Americans who are less than totally sanguine about the administration's approach to the war on terror.

Oh… and I wouldn't characterize the original piece as "attacking" Rich Lowry. A vigorous foot massage, maybe, but an attack?

Comments

[Chuck]

“cross-mojination” is my new favorite word, and will likely remain as such for at least the remainder of the afternoon.

[fyodor]

I think it’s always better form to attack one’s adversaries at their best rather than their worst. Oh, but it’s always easier to pick on the stupidest arguments and most outlandish statements made by the “other side,” and so that’s what usually takes place, and I think that holds for whatever political persuasion.

[Kevin Carson]

Goldberg ridicules the idea that “conservatives” have referred to Patriot critics as “fifth columnists.”

Hmmm… What “conservatives” does he mean? Lew Rockwell? Bob Barr? Does “conservatives” now include only those still recognized by the Con-Intern since David Frum’s purge?

“Conservative” is not now, if it ever was, a blanket term. What KIND of conservative we’re talking about makes a huge difference. It’s only recently that the mainstream press has stopped using “conservative” as a generic catch-all that includes NRO, the Weekly Standard, etc., and begun to understand that some conservatives are actually SKEPTICAL of the jackboots and the national security state.

[Flounder]

Don’t sweat that guy.

Remember that Jonah is the same guy who ceaselessly trumpets his tortured belief that the fun-loving National Review crowd is the modern-day incarnation of the Deltas, with liberals and libertarians lumped together as a bunch of Omega killjoys. Um, OK, if you say so . . . .

[Ray]

A very famous and very much hated radio personality has made the poignant observation of various media outlets creating stories about themselves and then reporting on it as if it were news.

Gratuitous garabage designed to show everyone that the fringe group has gained the attention of their mainstream rival.

[Rick Barton]

Jonah Goldberg wrote:
“To suggest that the assault on Ashcroft and the Patriot Act has been finely tuned and careful is absurd”

A too common J. Goldberg logical falacy: He attacks Sanchez’s position on the “assault” by implying that it is, some how, homogeneous in thoughtfulness. To the point; even casual reading reveals that much, if not most, of the critique is well reasoned. Of course, Goldberg takes the easier rout and chooses to attack the attackers rather then defend the Patriot act itself… Those details can be so pesky.

“…Second, he (Sanchez) says — or seems to — that conservatives have called all opponents of the Patriot Act “Fifth Columnists.” ”

As has been pointed out, many conservatives strongly oppose Patriot and have issued some of the most telling “assaults” against it. Can someone who does not at LEAST harbor reservations about the Patriot Act(s) even be fairly characterized as a “conservative”?

[Contra Rick]

>>Can someone who does not at LEAST harbor reservations about the Patriot Act(s) even be fairly characterized as a “conservative”?

How do you know he DOSEN’T have reservations?

Personally Rick I don’t know how someone can call themselves “libertarian” and not at LEAST harbor reservations about dudes blowing up busses and murdering tolders and infants (especially when their motivation is the foundanation of a illiberal STATE).

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EMAIL: [e-mail]
IP: 212.253.2.205
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DATE: 05/20/2004 02:37:07
The fear of death is the beginning of slavery.