Citizens Against Cheap Gasoline

When some Maryland gas stations faced the prospect of new competition, they posed as a grassroots movement to block it.

Comments

[joe]

I wonder how many of these gas station owners are GOP Team Leaders.

[PLC]

Huh?

[joe]

http://www.gopteamleader.com/about.asp

Bullet point four refers to astroturf campaigns, in which people who send variants of letters (written by RNC staffers) to newspapers and magazines (above their own name, and often beginning with "As a lifelong Democrat...") are rewarded with Team Leader Points, which can be spent on Republican-themed merchandise on the GOP website. There have been a number of cases of identical letters, which originated on the GOP website, appearing in several different newspapers at the same time, from different readers. One even made it into Time.

[Warren]

This is another example of the whole freedom vs. democracy thing.

[Serena W.]

Jesse Walker, to form the appropriate acronym, you should have titled your piece "Citizens Against Decency & Straightforwardness."

[PLC]

Joe - you don't think the Democrats do exactly the same thing?

[JDM]

joe,

Bullet point four from that page is:

"Collect GOPoints by completing Action Items and redeem them for collateral of your choice, ranging from leather PDA covers to folding chairs."

Perhaps the Republicans do what you say they do - I have no trouble believing it (or PLC's point) - but why did you post that link? Do you think it supports your contention?

[Anonymous]

Glad to see we can still make judgement calls. I thought the concepts of right and wrong were apostatized.

[joe]

PLC,

The DNC does not have any organized program of encouraging people to publish canned work as their own, not has it set up a system of individual bribery to motivate political action.

You see, the center-left has genuine grassroots support, and doesn't have to drum up astroturf. They don't tell CEOs at rallies to take off their ties so they'll look like normal people, which is roughly the same thing - faking support among regular, working people.

JDM,

That link is as far as you can go without registering, and I'm not getting on any GOP lists.

[JDM]

It's interesting to me that giving away naugahyde wallets with a mule emblems on them is bribery in your book, while giving away hundreds of billions of dollars of other people's money each year is not. Also, the fact that you don't think the Democrats stage manage the speakers at their rallies to appeal to the "common man," makes me think that you may be a young Republican working for a Ronald Reagan night-light by posing as a starry eyed liberal right now.

[joe]

JDM,

"Move along folks, nothing to see here. Hey! Look over there, behind you! Body? What body?"

Can't you just admit that getting people to publish unattributed work as their own is wrong? That staging fake grassroots is wrong? That employing dirty tricks in a political campaign is a bad thing? You are defending the indefensible.

But no, you disagree with the Democrats' policies, so anything, anything that gets your side power is not only acceptable, but morally pure. They would have loved you at CREEP.

[Anonymous]

Most of the "grassroots support" I've seen Democrats muster is mainly college students and paid union workers.

[Lefty]

Well, there. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Joe, you Democrat apologist.

JDM, you did everything but talk about organized false letters being sent to an official to influence policy.

Is that right or wrong?

[JDM]

Lefty,

It's wrong. That's implicit in my line of argumentation. Otherwise, I'd be arguing that it wasn't, rather than that it's par for the course for any political party, or any other organization for that matter. Why is it that you need me to tell you that?

[JDM]

"Can't you just admit that getting people to publish unattributed work as their own is wrong?"

I'm torn over what my response to this should be. My first option is - "The love fest is two doors down, hippie." My second is - "I'm not here to validate you. Maybe you should be talking to your mother."

If I were to be more rational about it, I'd just point out that in your posts, you neglected to mention that the Democrats also stage manage rallies while claiming that the Republicans did it. I'd also say that calling the Republican's Grit-style rewards system (which hands out trinkets to people who are *already* Republican "team leaders") is frothing at the mouth lunacy. Which is what I did.

Your moon-eyed faith in the Democratic party leaders would be touching if it weren't so nauseating. The Democrats have talking points, rewards systems for organizers (visits to the Oval Office even) and a history of building corrupt political machines that goes back to Aaron Burr and Tammany hall. You neglected to mention that. Why do my posts need to be balanced, while yours are not?

It's strange that you'd be so surprised when someone takes the other side of a political debate you've started on a political message board. I think I've seen you do the same thing.

[joe]

Actually Lefty, I don't think sending canned letters to office holders is wrong at all. When a Conressional office received 1500 identical lettes, it's obvious that there's an organized campaign going on, and the letters function as a long-winded signature petition. A petition, of course, is meant to show a lot of people buying into a pre-written statement.

But sending canned letters to media outlets, and passing them off as your own, makes me sick, because the purpose (and effect, in many cases) is convince the editor and readers (including office holders who read the paper) that the letter is the original work of an individual.

[Josh]

If it makes you guys feel any better, I've helped friends on Democratic campaigns where they wrote letters for members of various unions (mostly teachers and AFL-CIO), then had those members sign and send them to their papers. So there you go, first-hand evidence that even the altruistic Democrats are not above a little media manipulation.

[John Hensley]

The article fundamentally misrepresents what happened in the Microsoft case. Microsoft did not send any official a letter from a dead person. It (or its lobby group) solicited interest from the public, then sent a package that included a form letter to interested households. The recipients were expected to write their own letters or sign the form letters (accurately) and send them to officials. No corporation should be prevented from lobbying this way, nor should it be held responsible for the respondents' screwups. But I draw the line at making gifts to people who respond.

Interestingly, I've never seen the LA Times attack AOL/Oracle/Sun's lobby group (ProComp) with the same vigor.

Getting back on topic, any lobby group that complains about low prices is almost sure to have some business interest pulling its strings.

[Levy Rachel]

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DATE: 01/20/2004 01:06:28
It's not all lies - not all of it. That's the age-old dilemma.

[Denk Jeremy]

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To be a human without passion is to be dead.