4-20 Or Fight

David Murray, special assistant to the director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, threatens unspecified action against Canada if our neighbor to the north liberalizes its marijuana laws. In Vancouver Thursday for a day of meetings, Murray predicted "the loss of the mutual cooperative partnership we've had with Canadians regarding our borders, regarding the integrity of the hemisphere, regarding our commerce, regarding the implications of trade and value to ourselves, the loss of that would be something truly to be regretted," adding that the new drug policy would bring "unintended consequences." In another report on the meeting, CBC quotes Murray subjecting beliefs about cannabis to Mansonian biblical interpretation: "You can't wall this off saying, 'We're only talking about a little cannabis.' Our experience is they come together like the Four Horsemen."

Comments

[PoliBlogger]

I have never smoked marijuana, nor would I recommend that anyone start, but I have to admit, the amount of time and money we put into policing that substances is crazy, to say the least.

[quaker120]

I've never smoked it either, and I think Murray's comments are f--ing nuts. For our government to bully a sovereign country like this--one of our best allies, no less--is disgraceful.

[thoreau]

We may need to invade Canada! Bill O'Reilly already rails against them for a lot of reasons, including their immigration policies. We need to find out if they have oil too....

(Anybody who thinks I was serious in this post needs to stop smoking weed.)

[Anonymous]

Why does every smart idea like decriminalization go hand in hand with a stupid idea like needle exchange? Instead of subsidizing the pushers with inane anti-drug laws, they subsidize the junkies.

[Russ]

Seems to me that this wouldn't be the first time that Canada and the US have had radically different policies regarding the prohibition of a substance. The 1920's and 30's saw plenty of American's coming north for a good stiff drink. Perhaps Canada will welcome a new generation of toking tourists from the "land of the free".

[Anonymous]

"Decriminalization" is just a different revenue scheme. Instead of arresting and charging people for pot possession (and incurring all of the legal and procedural costs), they just cut their costs and raise some cash by fining people instead.

Up to now in Vancouver, cops have turned a blind eye to minor pot possession. Now they'll start dishing out fines. This will actually constrain pot smoking more that encouraging it (especially for those of us who don't like paying fines).

[Brian]

Here's wishing the best to our good neighbors to the north...and a sincere apology for the assholes currently running our drug policy. Don't worry, we have term limits, so even those appointed posts turn over eventually.

If Canada proceeds with decriminalization (and ultimately legalization), this will undoubtedly get the attention of those sitting on the fence here when they realize the world does not come to an end if you let people smoke pot. The government can get away with dismissing how well legalization has gone in Holland because so few Americans go there, but that won't be the case with Canada, since most of their population is within 200 km of our border.

[joe]

How stupid is this guy? Does he think bullying the Canadian government will make them less likely to stick a thumb in our eye?

Decriminalization addresses one serious problem (people going to jail who shouldn't be there), but leave the other Big 2 in place: the diversion of the money into the criminal underworld, and diversion of buyers into a criminal underworld (where, among other things, they're more likely to use truly dangerous drugs. The gateway effect is real, and prohibition causes it.)

[Lou]

Good point, Joe--give Canada a chance to prove they're independent of US hedgemony, and they'll do it. It's part of their national character.

[James Merritt]

Amazing that I agree with Joe in this thread almost as much as I apparently disagree with him in the assault weapons ban thread.

It is indeed the prohibition that greatly enhances, if not creates, the "gateway drug" effect. Similar bad effects occur from weapons prohibition, with the primary beneficiaries being the criminal class. But we can argue that issue over there.

Here, I echo other contributors' anticipation of sanctions against Canada, and even an invasion aimed at regime change. Yes, I'm laughing along with the rest of you, but I have to say that the arrogant, belligerant attitude and actions of the US government in recent years make such an "unthinkable" outcome much more likely than it once was, so that the laughter is closer to a nervous titter than the deep belly laugh it would have been, back in the days when the movie "Canadian Bacon" was in theatres.

Really, for the good of both our domestic and foreign policy, the drug warriors must be swept from office, and the controlled substances act must be repealed or struck down in court. This Act and this War it spawned have brought us to a very bad place, out of fear of yet another phantom menace. Grow up and wake up, America. The bogey man outside our window is simply the scraping of limbs and rustling of leaves caused by the drug warriors shaking the tree below us, and letting the darkness of our relative ignorance do the rest.

[joe]

The Bogeyman is real, James. He lives in a neighborhood in my city, and earns $90k/year selling dope, largely to people who drive in from the surrounding suburbs. (Where they sit back and talk shit about the criminals they fund and how the neighborhood's gone downhill since "those people" moved in.) He's not afraid to shoot up the neighborhood to keep his turf, and manages to hit innocent people about half the time.

He's a piece of trash, he scares away decent people and legitimate business, and causes the people who try to stick it out to live in constant danger. The police need to throw his ass in jail. I just wish he had one less hustle to cash in on.

[John]

Canadians also use the metric system, play football wrong, travel to Cuba and foisted upon an unsuspecting world Celine Dion, Alan Thicke, Bryan Adams & Michael J Fox.

Obviously, such a country should not be allowed to exist.

We should let Rush escape, then we should nuke the entire country.

[James Merritt]

Sounds like a government-created bogeyman to me, Joe. Instead of busting down your "neighbor's" doors or engaging him in a high-speed chase, perhaps our drug warriors simply ought to let the air out of his tires. The end of drug prohibition will do that. Your gangsta "neighbor" could not flourish outside of a prohibition environment. (Realistically, if he is only bringing in $90K as a violent "playah" in a contraband industry, he can't be all that talented.) On the other hand, I have read recent quotes by the Drug Warriors in Washington calling for even more draconian drug laws. So maybe your "neighbor" will be getting an effective raise, thanks to Uncle Sam.

Nothing like gasoline for putting out a fire, 'eh? Anyway, if the people wouldn't buy into the fake bogeyman hysteria caused by government anti-drug propaganda, the real bogeyman, whether operating as a gangsta or as a asset seizing drug warrior under color of law, wouldn't have a leg to stand on...

[joe]

Damn straight.

[Steve]

I blame Canada.

Seriously, tho, I'm pretty well in agreement (and with Joe, no less-ouch). Canada can do what it wants if it isn't hurting us or in league someone else who is.

[joemeek]

Thanks to Canada for showing the world that there is intelligence in North America.I have seen with my own eyes that marijuana can be tolerated without the sky falling, the Netherlands are a perfect example how things should be.Just as the US benefitted from Nazi Germany's intolerance(by getting some of the brightest minds), so too will Canada benefit from the US's intolerance.Don't believe the hype, the average marijuana smoker in the US is a productive citizen, not the lazy ass criminal media sterotype. I wish I were Canadian.

[Anonymous]

Canada, if you give in to bullying now, you'll be bullied for the rest of your life.

I like how Murray posits that the very integrity of our hemisphere is at stake. Reefer madness!!

[JDM]

"so too will Canada benefit from the US's intolerance"

Now that's funny.

[Guy H.]

I'm a Chemical Dependency Counselor, and I am hoping that the legalization of marijuana happens. My field could use the influx of cash that taxing it would supply.

[Tio Wally]

You have to love any Chemical Dependancy Couseler who says "My field could use the influx of cash that taxing it would supply." Spoken like a true right-wing pie-eyer.

If the emperical evidence is any indication, you won't get the windfall, Guy. And, thankfully, many people will not be conveniently demonized in the process, lest they be remanded to your care. Money talks, eh?

[Harriet Guest]

I have never smoked cannabis and I wouldn't want anybody to start but I think it should be legalised. It is classed as an illicit drug which puts it on the same market of other drugs that will cause more cannabis users to easily get their hands on more dangerous drugs. I am 15 years old and many of my friends have started to take cannabis and I'm worried but I don't think that they are phased that it is illgal or that it would make any difference to them if it was legalised. I also think that becasue it isn't legal that people smoking cannabis may be getting the drug mixed with other substances which will do harm.

[Kevin]

I am an American and somewhat proud of it. But when it comes to American drug laws.... I don't even have the words to describe it. There are child-molesters who can go to jail for less time than someone who had a joint in his pocket.

I'm from Detroit and I'll say this. If the U.S. government gets any more strict there will be one more person singing "O' Canada".

[Kevin]

I am an American and somewhat proud of it. But when it comes to American drug laws.... I don't even have the words to describe it. There are child-molesters who can go to jail for less time than someone who had a joint in his pocket.

I'm from Detroit and I'll say this. If the U.S. government gets any more strict there will be one more person singing "O' Canada".

[ourforeignpolicysucks]

It's 4-20 time again and by now we all know that marijuana has been decriminalized in canada. A little known fact here in the U.S. is that one city in Michigan is also trying to defy the U.S. stranglehold. A decades old law punishes those caught in possession of marijuana with only a $25 ticket, unlike the other far greater consequences around the states. Advocates for 4-20, don't worry, the graduates from highly acclaimed liberal university towns like berkley/stanford (where everyone is walking around on some type of drug) and College Park, MD, will soon be experienced and in position to run our government. Like a previous post, our term limits will take care of those already in power.

the product of our government: garbage in, garbage out.

[toke it up]

WeeD is good Weed is gr8 SMoke all Day smoKE alL niGhT!! 4:20 SweET haha

if you try and dont suceed come with me n smoke weed

[toke it up]

WeeD is good Weed is gr8 SMoke all Day smoKE alL niGhT!! 4:20 SweET haha

if you try and dont suceed come with me n smoke weed

[Bowman Rob]

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DATE: 01/20/2004 08:25:46
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