US Marshal Upset That Couple His Police Gang Terrorized Went to the Press

Reason 24/7ReasonWhen you're a police officer searching for a suspect who you believe has taken shelter at an apartment complex, of course you politely knock on the doors of the residents, most or all of whom must be innocent, and politely show them a photo— Oh, who am I kidding? Polite cops are so old fashioned. Of course you put together a massive tactical team, point guns in kitchen windows, brutalize the inhabitants, and then take offense when somebody has the nerve to call a reporter.

From the Sarasota Herald-Tribune:

After leaving her operating room scrub nurse duties at Sarasota's Doctors Hospital on Wednesday, Louise Goldsberry went to her Hidden Lake Village apartment.

Her boyfriend came over, and after dinner — about 8 p.m. — Goldsberry went to her kitchen sink to wash some dishes.

That's when her boyfriend, Craig Dorris — a manager for a security alarm company — heard her scream and saw her drop to the floor.

Goldsberry, 59, said she had looked up from the sink to see a man “wearing a hunting vest.”

He was aiming a gun at her face, with a red light pinpointing her.

“I screamed and screamed,” she said.

But she also scrambled across the floor to her bedroom and grabbed her gun, a five-shot .38-caliber revolver. Goldsberry has a concealed weapons permit and says the gun has made her feel safer living alone. But she felt anything but safe when she heard a man yelling to open the door.

He was claiming to be a police officer, but the man she had seen looked to her more like an armed thug. Her boyfriend, Dorris, was calmer, and yelled back that he wanted to see some ID.

Note that the officer at the door, Matt Wiggins of the US Marshal's fugitive division, responded to the request that he prove his claim to be a police officer by cursing and threatening to shoot the frightened couple.

Dorris ultimately took the plunge and emerged to establish the raiders' identity. He found 30 or so marshals and Sarasota cops who handcuffed him, ransacked the apartment once Goldsberry emerged (she was also cuffed), showed the photo of the suspected child-rapist they actually wanted, and then left.

The journalist Goldsberry called, Tom Lyons, seems to have a refreshingly skeptical attitude toward law enforcement behavior for a modern newspaper reporter.

The tip was never about Goldsberry's apartment, specifically, Wiggins acknowledged. It was about the complex.

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

Maybe none of them had a gun pointed at them through the kitchen window, I suggested. But Wiggins didn't think that was much excuse for the woman's behavior. He said he acted with restraint and didn't like having that gun aimed at him.

“I went above and beyond,” Wiggins said. “I have to go home at night.”

Goldsberry was at home, I said. She had a gun pointed at her, too, and she wasn't wearing body armor and behind a shield. She had no reason to expect police or think police would ever aim into her kitchen and cuss at her through her door to get in. It seemed crazy. She was panicked.

“We were clearly the police,” Wiggins insisted. “She can't say she didn't know.”

She does say so, actually.

Ultimately, Marshal Wiggins is upset that he has to answer a reporter's questions about his conduct while conducting a sweep through the war-torn streets of Kabul an apartment complex in a peaceful Florida city.

Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, “She sure shouldn't be going to the press.”

Let's hope Wiggins and his hopped-up gang don't decide to shoot first, in the future, just to avoid dealing with unpleasant reports in the press.

This seems like a good moment to mention former Reason staffer Radley Balko's new book, Rise of the Warrior Cop, about militarized policing.

And, as a side note, on New York City's WOR radio, yesterday, I was asked by guest host Brett Winterble if America is now a police state. Yes, I said. Yes, it is.

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  • SIV||

    I have to agree with anonbot on this one.

  • JW||

    Oh, those Scalia Boys. Always fucking around with the peasants.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    He said he acted with restraint and didn't like having that gun aimed at him.

    Once again, I think that unrecognized irony ought to be a toxic substance, so that after people say something like this, the next line would be "Marshall Wiggins then had to be rushed to the hospital to be treated for irony poisoning".

  • Tamfang||

    And Ms Goldsberry was restrained because she didn't like having a gun aimed at her. Perfect symmetry!

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

  • Hollywood||

    Nice, +6 crackas

  • Aloysious||

    I laughed. I still hate this meme.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Better to be judged by, ah, six, than carried by six.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Notice that the race hustlers never organize protests against police abuse.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    Not true in NYC. I won't list them all but the Diallo murder and Louima rape by baton had the race hustlers out in full force.

  • Ted S.||

    That of course isn't true. Remember Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Not really, I live in CA and they barely got mentioned by the legacy media here. In contrast, 'protests' have bee happening daily here and around the country over Zimmerman's acquittal (which is what they are protesting). And not a peep about any of the police abuse cases that are common knowledge to reason readers.

  • Adam330||

    Rodney king then? Perhaps you heard if that one.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Twenty one years ago.

  • wwhorton||

    Yeah, my friend paged me when the verdict was read...

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    “I went above and beyond,” Wiggins said. “I have to go home at night.”

    Out. Standing.

  • fish_remote||

    “I have to go home at night.”

    No you don't....If your safety was of such importance why not pick another career....floral arranger for instance.

    Pussy!

  • PH2050||

    Right?! I feel like most cops I've run into are pussies. They experience none of the danger of Iraq but swear they're in fucking Fallujah.

  • Irish||

    The primary cause of death for police officers is traffic accidents. The odds of being seriously injured by a suspect is very low. Not only that, but police officers would be even less likely to be shot or injured by a suspect if they didn't conduct military style, no-knock raids at midnight.

    They put themselves in danger through dangerous tactics and then use their own stupidity as evidence of how much we should respect them.

  • PH2050||

    "Not only that, but police officers would be even less likely to be shot or injured by a suspect if they didn't conduct military style, no-knock raids at midnight."

    Totally agree. Why is it wrong for me to grab a weapon to defend myself if I'm woken up by the sound of my door being bashed in? Am I no longer entitled to self-defense?

    Don't get mad when you bust through my door like a gang and my response is quite loud and injurious.

  • ||

    So there's this guy see.

    His thing is running down cops with his car. Any chance he got he'd swerve to run down a cop giving a ticket.

    So one day he picks up an Irish Catholic priest, hitchhiking. After the father is in the car he thinks better of his decision to pick him up. What do I do if I see a cop?

    I know, I'll pretend to drop something on the floor and then swerve to get him as I'm leaning over.

    Sure enough, a mile down the road, there's a cop giving a ticket. Taking off his sunglasses, he pretends to accidentally drop them on the floor. He leans over to pick them up, swerves and hears THWAMP!

    The man gets up, looks in the rear view, places his hand over his mouth and says, "Oh my, did I hit that pig?"

    The priest, in a thick Irish accent, says, "No laddy, you would've missed em', but I opened me door."

  • StinkEye||

    Perfect... +1

  • Virginian||

    My roommate is current Guard, and a veteran airborne regular who has been to both of my generation's shitty places courtesy of Uncle Sam. CIB and everything. He hates cops. Says they want to play soldier without the whole "fighting enemies with mortars and RPGs" bit.

  • PH2050||

    They seem to LOVE this cordon and knock, house clearing shit.

    Tell those pussies do it for 48 hours straight, let's see if they still want to "play soldier".

  • Xenocles||

    I've heard that it's an old Coast Guard motto that "You have to go out; you don't have to come back."

  • croaker||

    The Coast Guard is one of the few honorable law enforcement agencies that exist in this country. Or they were until they were sucked in by the brownshirts of Homeland Insecurity.

  • hotsy totsy||

    What would NOT going above and beyond be? Just smokin' the two of 'em without asking questions?

  • A Serious Man||

    “I went above and beyond,” Wiggins said. “I have to go home at night.”

    Sure asshole. The rest of us are just expendable.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Fuck you, Dumb Ass Dumpfy.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    The fact that the civilian had an assault revolver validates the necessity of the procedures followed by the Peace Officers.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Love the handle.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Proof of slowly eroding expectations this article seems to be, of even asking questions about warrants and scope of warrants. The goon-squad best I can tell was scampering about on a 'tip.'

    Ditto for if they even caught the child-rapist. Child-rapist? Sounds like a grab-bag boogeyman to justify stupidity to me - one of the three modern classes of untouchables used to justify militant police: Narco-terrorist-pedophile, that works every time. And as an aside, what did other residents have to say about hosting a bunch of fatties who watch the Military Channel too much?

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    People who can't deal with having guns pointed at them should not hold careers in the initiation of force and the invasion of property.

  • Cement Pond Scum||

    She wasn't a dog. Probably saved her life.

  • Zeb||

    I'd say she was fucking lucky as a human.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Tragically the officers were unharmed.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    “We were clearly the police,” Wiggins insisted. “She can't say she didn't know.”

    What a pile of shit.

  • Hollywood||

    We were clearly the police. Why didn't she just bend over like a good little serf? I didn't even shoot her, though I could have. She's lucky, by not killing her I saved her life. Next time she'll show the proper deference. This was a good learning experience for her. I'm just trying to get home safe.

    /peace officer dunphy

  • Ted S.||

    If I were going to be a criminal who wanted to break into homes and steal stuff, I'd portray myself as a SWAT officer.

  • TheSpiteHouse||

    I've heard of cases like that, although I don't know if precisely that has happened.

  • Andrew S.||

    It's happened. Balko's chronicled cases of that (in his "Overkill" paper for CATO from 2006)

  • Killazontherun||

    Cause middle class ladies whose idea of cops is filtered through bullshit like Law&Order; should expect to be cursed at while having a gun pointed at them. That's what bad guys do. Yes, that is what bad guys do.

  • Killazontherun||

    Law&Order;; should

    Shows up a second time, squirrels.

  • Killazontherun||

    Yup, they inserted it there after Law&Order;, weird.

  • Agammamon||

    Law&Order;

  • Metazoan||

    Law&Order;

  • Agammamon||

    LAWℴ

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Law & Order

  • ||

    Law & Order.

    So. What's this game called?

  • ||

    My wife loves cop shows. NCIS, Castle, and Law and Order. The cops are mostly portrayed as zany, lovable eccentrics who always behave honorably and get the bad guys. I think she knows the difference. My complaints are met with " It's just a show!".

    I hate that shit.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Make her watch "Raising the Bar". It was a police procedural show that was shown from the defense attorneys perspective. So the cops were constantly lying on the stand and the DA was constantly ringing up unnecessary charges to further his political career, to the point of deliberately going after people he knew were innocent just because he could.

  • Agammamon||

    Not so much on NCIS anymore - They've always been arseholes to the public but now that they're focusing on 'anti-terrorism' a lot they've turned into jackbooted, door-kicking, assassins.

    Its only in the 'private' areas of the show that they are shown as personable. But heck, even Tony Soprano's crew and Dexter are nice when they want to be.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I note also the armed citizen managed to not wildly empty her firearm through the door.

  • croaker||

    Felony murder of a fedcop gets the death sentence.

  • Anders||

    Wiggins said. “I have to go home at night.”

    Yes, yes, officer safety.

    After all, sometimes the peons actually fire on people who scream and point guns at them.

    Also, this Deputy Marshall is not a policeman so he should be charged with impersonating a police officer, common assault, reckless endangerment, false imprisonment, and being a douchebag.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Please do not associate me with these scum. It is spelled marshal.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I'm sure Fearless Fosdick will be able to explain this.

    Overwhelming force in situations where there is a complete lack of intelligence(!) is not only justifiable, it is absolutely essential.

  • RBS||

    He's probably too busy discussing the serious issues over at volokh.

  • PH2050||

    I know I've arrived to the party late but I don't understand the hate dunphy gets in the comments here. I've met plenty of stupid or asshole cops that weren't fit to serve in the military much less the police but I've met a few good ones and I sometimes find myself agreeing with what he writes. Did I miss something?

  • RBS||

    Go through the archives and find the article about the guy who answered the door in the middle of the night with a gun in his hand then read dunphy's comments.

  • PH2050||

    I found this story but dunphy comments were noticeably absent.

    Related to this story, a friend used to live in Chesapeake and the police were called on him by some crazy chick accusing him of stealing her cell phone. He didn't steal anything but when he opened the door for police they saw his tank where his chameleon lived and forced their way in. Arrested him, searched his place, found a little weed.

    In court, they said the plants in the tank looked like marijuana plants from the doorway, no bullshit.

  • ||

    I didn't dislike him too much at first, but he kind of wears you down after a while.

  • johnl||

    Yes.

  • Virginian||

    He always sounds kind of reasonable, but then you realize that no matter how outrageous the latest police abuse case is, dunphy is always coming down on the side of the cops. It never fails.

    He also asserts insane things like "cops get punished more harshly then civilians for the same crimes."

    Add in the powerlifting/surfing/rock band bullshit stories about how awesome he is, and the constant assertion that he and his fellow gun thugs are heroes, and you quickly find yourself hoping he does catch a bullet at some point.

  • ||

    At this point, I'm convinced he's a pathological liar and just some third-shift security guard with delusions of being a hero cop.

  • William of Purple||

  • PH2050||

    I'm still searching for the comments RBS mentioned so I thought you were linking them.

    Funny shit.

  • ||

    Paul Blart? Is that you?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Add in the powerlifting/surfing/rock band bullshit stories about how awesome he is, and the constant assertion that he and his fellow gun thugs are heroes, and you quickly find yourself hoping he does catch a bullet at some point.

    Don't forget paramedic, firefighter, computer programmer, physicist, casanova, working class hero, rich guy, and husband of some famous actress. And no, I am not making any of these up (I'm probably forgetting a couple).

  • PH2050||

    Come on, you guys are fucking with me, right?

  • Irish||

    No. Dunphy claims to have won a bunch of surf competitions, and all of his surf stories end with him banging some hottie on the sly.

    We are unworthy of breathing the same air as such a noble, masculine creature.

  • ||

    I'd actually like cites for some of these (physicist, rich, husband of famous person). The others are somewhat plausible, but not in combination with these three.

  • Virginian||

    Pretty sure he claimed to have had a torrid affair with Morgan Fairchild.

  • sasob||

    Pretty sure he claimed to have had a torrid affair with Morgan Fairchild.

    That would be Secretary Kerry who had the affair. Always knew there was something about Fairchild I didn't like.

  • Silly ol' Bear||

    I am all of those, besides paramedic, but I don't go around busting doors down. Just sayin....

  • Timon 19||

    He's Fletch!

  • ||

    Add in the powerlifting/surfing/rock band bullshit stories about how awesome he is, and the constant assertion that he and his fellow gun thugs are heroes, and you quickly find yourself hoping he does catch a bullet at some point.

    Don't forget acting.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    My most memorable Dunphy-moment was when he argued, rather vehemently, that plainclothes cops had the legal power to chase a minor to his home, kick in the door, and then shoot him while he's crouched over his toilet, shouting "gun! Gun!" Keep in mind that no gun was found, the cops didn't identify themselves as cops, and they lied in their initial statements as to events of that day.

    Thread where dunphy lies, backtracks, moves the goalposts, and splits hairs regarding Remarley Graham.

  • Irish||

    This is Dunphy's first post from that thread:

    KNOWING the kid matters.

    totality of circ's ALWAYS matters.

    there is a difference between running and a person, standing in street clothes especially (iow not athletic gear, like he was out for a run), turning and SEEING the police and THEN running

    that is, generally speaking, REASONABLE SUSPICION. it's stronger if the ofc. has specific knowledge regarding the person indicating they are a career/frequent criminal, etc.

    This is the Dunphyiest comment to ever Dunphy since Dunphy Dunphy'd to Dunphytown. It is an almost totally incomprehensible mashup of cop jargon, acronyms, and ALL CAPS.

  • PH2050||

    Holy shit.

  • Irish||

    HAHAHAHAHAHA! You think that's bad?

    there is no right to reach for your waistband when a cop ***or*** a "noncop" lawfully detaining you at gunpoint tells you to keep your hands up

    there is NO SUCH RIGHT

    again, i have responded to a # of doods held at gunpoint by average joes (NOT COPS) and i can tell you that if one them shot some burglar or car thief and made the claim the guy reached for his waistband and there was no contradictory evidence, there is not a DA in my state that would charge him, ESPECIALLY because the state has the burden to DISPROVE self defense and must pay lawyer and lost wages to the defendant if self defense is believed by the jury

    i am sure you can point me to this magickal right to reach for your waistband in a felony stop situation

    lol

    Here's Dunphy arguing that it's totally cool for police officers to gun someone down so long as the cop claims he was touching his waist band. He also claims that if a non-cop were to shoot someone who was unarmed for touching his waistband, that non-cop would not be charged. Which is, of course, total bullshit.

  • PH2050||

    Wtf this doesn't reconcile at all with the mental image I had of a relatively chill cop who was most likely a member of LEAP.

  • ||

    I used to feel the same way. I sort of liked Dunphy. I wasn't sure I agreed with everything he said, and felt the people who disagreed with him made some reasonable points, but I didn't understand at all the vehemence and hatred with which they refer to him.

    But after seeing post after post of theatrically-humble bragging about how great he is at his job and how noble and well-loved he is, and his repeated defense of indefensible and absurd actions on the part of officers, when the same actions on the part of a non-officer would be dealt with harshly, I too have come to the conclusion that he's a rank piece of shit.

  • PH2050||

    But then why would he espouse video recording of police - hell, he even espoused police being issued personal devices that would be worn at all times.

    Why would someone who supports abuse of the badge take such a position? It doesn't make sense to me.

  • ||

    Because he doesn't believe he's a bad guy, and he doesn't believe cops are incapable of corruption. He's just an apologist for a lot of wrongdoing as well.

  • croaker||

    Show me a cop who is a member of LEAP and I'll show you a cop that's about to be fired.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    So all Zimmerman had to do was say he was reaching for his waistband, and he'd never have been charged?

  • ||

    Only if he was a cop. Everyone knows some citizens are more equal than others.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Everyone knows some citizens are more equal than others.

    "The creatures outside looked from pigDunphy to man, and from man to pigDunphy, and from pigDunphy to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I was asked by guest host Brett Winterble if America is now a police state. Yes, I said. Yes, it is.

    THIS IS WHY NOBODY TAKES LIBERTARIANS SERIOUSLY!

  • Erik Jay||

    Say what? I've been having some pretty good success with (honest) leftists by reminding them what THEY used to say in the 1960s and 70s about the cops. For those with some intellectual honesty on the left, and they are definitely there, this approach can work. In fact, there's a good tradition in AA (I don't endorse the group or their "steps") about keeping "principles before personalities." A principled person (okay, yeah, they're not the majority) can at least have some cognitive dissonance sown by this approach. I use it all the time. We need allies, and need to reach out appropriately. As to this screaming comment, it's just not true -- rather, it's not as widespread a reaction as it once was. Progress has been made... but not enough that we can say the U.S. is NOT a police state. It is.

  • Inigo M.||

    Why, because they speak the truth?

    How is it NOT a police state? You have broad wiretapping and surveillance of EVERYBODY, a newly militarized police force, and government-approved reprisals toward political dissidents (Hello?? The IRS scandal). Do you actually need people to disappear into secret prisons and have a high-tech fence around the place before it qualifies as a full police state? Well, news flash: they are already talking about the fence.

  • Virginian||

    And people have disappeared into secret prisons. They're just dirty brown terrorists. Promise. Swearsies. For real.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Remember, there's no child-rapist manhunt so important that you can't take time out to teach uppity civilians a lesson in blind, immediate compliance.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Are pedophiles known for being as well armed as drug lords? If not, then why the need to employ "special weapons and tactics" to arrest what is likely an balding and overweight middle-aged man?

  • Anders||

    I'm not an expert criminologist but I do read the crime section and the fully armed Rambo-Pedo is a creature that requires at least 30 heavily armed LEOs to apprehend.

    Hell, a routine traffic stop around here requires a minimum of three police trucks.

  • Irish||

    When I was 16, some friends and I were shooting off a potato gun in a field just outside of town. There were houses way off in the field, and someone must have called the cops.

    Four squad cars showed up to deal with half a dozen kids shooting off a potato gun.

  • RBS||

    When I was 16, some friends domestic terrorists and I were shooting off a potato gun in a field just outside of town. There were houses way off in the field, and someone must have called the cops.

    Four squad cars showed up to deal with half a dozen kids domestic terrorists shooting off a potato gun.

  • Sevo||

    OK, but did they shoot your dogs?

  • TheSpiteHouse||

    "Fully armed Rambo-Pedo" is in equal parts terrifying and hilarious. Well done.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • TheSpiteHouse||

    I will admit that I find that entry perplexing.

  • Agammamon||

    I think someone is confused.

  • ||

    Well, they really couldn't afford any pets, so they drew dog features on the potatoes. Incidentally, when the cops arrived they shot all the remaining potatoes. Irish and his friends were all charged with animal cruelty.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I remember once making works bombs (works toilet cleaner, Al foil, pop bottle) in a tube and shooting out a kid's basketball with some friends at my dad's house. A cop pulled in the driveway just as one went off and we ran. Where we were going, who knows, but it was funny.

    Considering that we were blowing shit up, the cop was actually very pleasant. We told him we learned of the reaction in chemistry class and he told us not to do it anymore.

    I have no idea who called the cops because we were out in the country in the middle of a 3 acre field. We always were blowing shit up there before that and continued to do so afterwards with no trouble. Probably a car going by on the road heard the thunderous booms and called it in.

  • Inigo M.||

    You're obviously old enough to have been a kid back when things were still fairly normal. Contrast this to today, when a kid will be removed from school for chewing a Pop-Tart into a "gun-like" shape. Today, your behavior would probably earn you a bunk in Gitmo.

  • ||

    I am old enough also. I constructed home-made guns and bombs before I was 12. It was fun and mostly no one cared. My mother would have a fit when she caught me, but everyone else was amused and just thought I was being a boy.

    I wouldnt dare do it today, more because i realize the danger than for legal reasons.

  • ||

    And rockets. I made rockets too.

  • ||

    Same here. Always playing with explosives and toys that would be deemed "dangerous" today. Not only that, we spend a lot of time in forests and shit. Man, it was great.

    Kids today probably are no different than we were. It's just that they have the miserable honor of living in the wrong era looks like. There are some seriously deranged or irrational teachers and parents out there fucking these kids up.

    No wonder they keep their heads in a video game. If they look up, they'll be subjected to idiocy.

  • Lord at War||

    You're obviously old enough to have been a kid back when things were still fairly normal.

    This!

    I remember buying (only) potassium nitrate and "blue tip" matches at the local pharmacy as a 13 yr old in 1978 (yes, we were blowing shit up!), and the old guy in line behind me protesting to the cashier that it was "irresponsible".

    I complimented his knowledge of chemistry- and paid for my purchase.

  • Agammamon||

    I remember when you had to be at least 16 to buy the model glue that didn't suck.

    Now you can't get it at all.

  • sasob||

    I remember when you didn't have to be any certain age but only needed a half dollar or less to buy the model airplane kit. Yeah, I'm older than dirt.

  • sasob||

    As old as Morgan Fairchild anyway. :-)

  • General Butt Naked||

    When I was 16, some friends and I were shooting off a potato gun in a field just outside of town.

    Finally got revenge on those blight-prone tubers. Good for you and your people.

  • Brendan||

    Henderson, NV?

  • Ted S.||

    If not, then why the need to employ "special weapons and tactics" to arrest what is likely an balding and overweight middle-aged man?

    Because fuck you, that's why.

    It's all about grooming people to believe that it's OK and normal for police to terrorize people this way.

  • Bill||

    Or a 17 year old who has a 16 year old girl friend.

  • Sevo||

    "But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said."

    It's clear; resistance = guilt. Next, they'll tie her hands and toss her in the lake; it's a shame if she's innocent.

  • ||

    If she sinks, then she was innocent. If she floats, then totally guilty.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Witchsmeller Pursuivant: The suspected witch has his head placed upon a block, and an axe aimed at his neck. If the man is guilty, the axe will bounce off his neck, so we burn him; if he is not guilty, the axe will simply slice his head off.
  • sasob||

    But at least his soul will be safe - that's the important thing.

  • Kyfho Myoba||

    She turned me into a Newt!

  • Dweebston||

    How is a police state identified? I've always assumed it's a legal system in which enforcers and the judiciary are in bed, and any action taken by officers is justified post-hoc with no regard for legitimacy or proportionality. Tyranny of absolute discretion, in other words. We're not quite there, but it's closing in.

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    I'd say we're in a soft police state, where the police can arrest anybody at any time for any reason, and cause so much grief that even if the victims prove their innocence, their lives will be destroyed -- bankrupt, marriage gone, house gone, car gone, job gone.

    We're not yet at Nazi or Communist style hard police state, and may never get there, but more from lack of necessity than lack of desire.

  • Dweebston||

    Agreed, with the caveat that degree of police statism is immaterial. The fact that we have a system which can target dissidents of any stripe with ruthless efficacy is the important distinction, even if their tactics aren't as jackbooted thuggish as other examples.

  • Killazontherun||

    As The Road to Serfdom pointed out, the laws protecting citizens were eroded for the purpose of efficiency over time before the Nazi regime came to power. Do we really want to be Berlin in 1932?

  • Dweebston||

    We haven't got an authoritarian regime with a globalist agenda. Instead we've got a problem of self-serving fiefdoms with worrisome autonomy and a definite sense of how to butter their bread.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    We haven't got an authoritarian regime with a globalist agenda.

    Wanna bet?

    Instead we've got a problem of self-serving fiefdoms with worrisome autonomy and a definite sense of how to butter their bread.

    Commies and Nazis had those too.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    We're not yet at Nazi or Communist style hard police state, and may never get there...

    Did the gestapo or commie cops make it routine practice to kick doors down and shoot everything in sight when arresting someone?

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    We'd appreciate reverting to the relatively tame current police state if we ever did advance to a nazi or communist police state. There is a difference.

    But my point is also that the current police state may be sufficient. Aside from droning people overseas, the authorities can make resistance such a virtual living hell that they don't need to make it literal, and its virtuality provides cover that a hard police state wouldn't.

  • Killazontherun||

    Sorel made the same argument in a section of Reflections on Violence. I suppose there is validity in the soft touch being more effective at getting away with more, but, come on, this guy is a straight up jack booted thug concerned for his safety over that of the public as he freely admits and uses to justify his actions. There is nothing soft gloved state about that at all.

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    One jackbooted thug does not a police state make.

  • Inigo M.||

    "We'd appreciate reverting to the relatively tame current police state if we ever did advance to a nazi or communist police state. There is a difference."

    This makes no sense. The fact that it's not as bad as it could potentially get makes it somehow excusable? By that logic, someone kicking you in the groin a few times would be preferable than having them shoot you in the head. Does that mean groin kicks are acceptable?

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    Where the hell did I excuse the current sorry state of affairs?

    Keerist you need some lessons in reading comprehension.

  • Agammamon||

    THOSE WITHOUT SIN, KNEEL ON THE GROUND!

  • Frequent Poster||

  • Irish||

    The Stewart case described in the article is another case where things not only turned out badly, but could have been even worse. When police are “invading” a home to arrest a suspect and seize contraband, it’s hardly an unreasonable assumption that the suspect may react violently in an attempt to defeat the police and escape. Stewart may have “thought” he was being invaded by other criminals, but it was his choice to grab a gun and start shooting. The result of the police response may have been regrettable, but it was hardly unexpected.

    Note: The contraband this guy had was a couple of pot plants. It occurs to me that breaking down someone's door and getting in a shootout over a few pot plants is ridiculous.

  • AlmightyJB||

    99.9% of militant police behaviour is over some trivial bullshit.

  • Ted S.||

    Note: The contraband this guy had was a couple of pot plants. It occurs to me that breaking down someone's door and getting in a shootout over a few pot plants is ridiculous.

    The War on Drugs is evil.

  • Zeb||

    But, he might flush the plants down the toilet.

  • PH2050||

    LOL

  • Agammamon||

    That's why he should have known they were police - criminals wouldn't have broken in for so little gain.

  • John||

    When police are “invading” a home to arrest a suspect and seize contraband, it’s hardly an unreasonable assumption that the suspect may react violently in an attempt to defeat the police and escape.

    Yeah, because everyone so wants to turn a drug wrap into a life without parole/death penalty cop killing wrap. That is just fucking stupid. The only reason they might react violently is if the dumb ass cops fail to identify themselves and the person thinks they are going to be killed.

  • Agammamon||

    Well given how harsh the drug laws are, its won't be too long before simple possession gets you a life sentence anyway.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "The Stewart case...could have been even worse"

    You mean worse than a dead cop *and* a dead "civilian"?

    And notice that he admits Stewart may have sincerely thought the people breaking into his home were (unofficial) criminals, he *still* thinks he was wrong to shoot the intruders.

    Maybe the derisive term "other criminals" is meant to posit a moral equivalence between keeping pot plants in your home and making an armed invasion of the same home. Because keeping pot means you've given up your right to defend yourself even against fellow "civilians."

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Dweebston||

    I'm having trouble following the second sentence out of the first, and the third is right out.

    Presumptive guilt in rape cases is a very real problem, but presumptive innocence is no better.

  • ||

    HM is rewriting a paragraph from the Hot Air police apologetics article.

  • Lord at War||

    Presumptive guilt in rape cases is a very real problem, but presumptive innocence is no better.

    The "presumption of innocence" is the first principle of our judicial system.

    You are an idiot.

  • Dweebston||

    I figured I hadn't made myself clear. I meant the presumptive innocence as displayed in HM's link, the variety that presumes the possible rapist can't possibly have committed the crime because the woman alleging rape had been drinking with him.

    Also, defendants in court are presumed innocent. Police make no such presumptions, else no apprehension, no incarceration, no charges. The latter is what concerned me about the link.

  • Calidissident||

    Shows that conservatives are just as capable of mindless worship of the state as liberals. Some of the comments are good, but some are just mindnumbingly stupid.

  • Irish||

    On Balko's WSJ article the other day, virtually all of the comments were very good. I think there are educated, intelligent conservatives who read the Wall Street Journal, and then there are the mouthbreathing slobs that tend to comment on any article that Drudge links to.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Some of the comments are good, but some are just mindnumbingly stupid

    I actually read the entirety of the comments and came away pleasantly surprised how many of the Hot Air people are starting to notice and also connect the dots of the WoT and the WoD as well. There's always going to be derp, but that's to be expected, as it's still more or less a TEAM site. I've noticed a similar trend at AoSHQ as well. I think it's a positive, if belated development.

    I'm sure they'll run some dirty Messican tanking our JERBZ article before too long to get them all back in line.

    Also, Jazz Shaw is an idiot.

  • John||

    The derp seems to be coming in extreme doses from a few people. The vast majority of the commenters on there agree with Balko.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Stewart may have “thought” he was being invaded by other criminals, but it was his choice to grab a gun and start shooting.

    If this person's guns had been confiscated, he might be alive today.

    Gun control: it's for your own good.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I really do hope I never experience one of these goon squad raids. Because I'm pretty sure I'll wind up dead. My only solice being all the dogs that I have saved.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Me too. Faced with someone pointing a gun in my window, I'd be grabbing my M1A and then dialing 911. I doubt the body armor would turn a 7.62x51. And considering I would never hear another thing after popping that off indoors, I'm sure I'd be dead for killing "one of the thin blue line" and not following orders.

    BTW, what ever happened to warrants? Or can we now raid whole neighborhoods under "exigent circumstances?"

  • Agammamon||

    Apparently nowadays you only need a warrant if you are raiding a single residence. If you're doing a whole block then that's cool.

  • ||

    We don't need no stinking warrants!

  • Agammamon||

    Remember - Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    So you only need to get a warrant if you have probable cause and can specify the location to be searched.

  • ||

    True. The part about if you don't have probable cause or even a clue as to who you are looking for or where they are you shouldn't go ransack the neighborhood seemed so obvious it didn't need specification, but...

  • Agammamon||

    Hey leftist *and* rightists can do the whole 'textual' thing when it suits them.

  • ||

    Well it IS a living document... unless a cop mistakes it for a child molester.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Do we need “kinder and gentler” cops interacting with the community in a friendly fashion? It is certainly to the benefit of the police to be in good standing with a cooperative community and to know the people they protect and serve, but they also deserve a fighting chance when the situation suddenly turns violent and ugly. The rise of “warrior cops” may not be what everyone would hope for, but I don’t see any realistic alternatives.

    All must offer their love and obedience to the STATE and its agents!

  • Aloysious||

    They should have dialed 911 and reported house breakers imitating police officers. Maybe the responding officers would have arrested the marshals, and the marshals would have arrested the police officers.

    I know, I'm dreaming.

  • Dweebston||

    I would guess that if not for her boyfriend's relative levelheadedness, he'd be a pallbearer at her funeral rather than a plaintiff in their case against the city. Submission is the only gesture likely to placate these assholes.

  • Acosmist||

    Armed thugs impersonating cops are in my house, shoot them on sight. Don't listen to their lies!

    If only.

  • Agammamon||

    Or they would have gotten in a shootout with each other.

    6,000 rounds and no-one hit.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Except for people living in the vicinity.

  • Agammamon||

    Hey - you are insulting those hard-working cops with your empathy for *civilians*.

  • A Serious Man||

    US fighter jets screw up training mission, drop unarmed bombs into Great Barrier Reef.

  • Killazontherun||

    Well, better than that a-bomb that's still somewhere in the muck of a South Carolina swamp.

  • RBS||

    Hey, I pass the site every time I visit my mom's family.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Better than accidently shooting down a civilian airliner.

  • Agammamon||

    "The two planes jettisoned four bombs in more than 50m (165 ft) of water, away from coral, to minimise damage to the World Heritage Site, the US navy said. "

    So, they *didn't* actually drop bombs on the reef then.

  • Agammamon||

    Oh and the fighters didn't screw up the mission, it was called off and they couldn't land loaded.

  • A Serious Man||

    Also, Welch is on MSNBC talking the Zimmerman case, Obama's speech, and other stuff.

  • A Serious Man||

    Oh Christ, the lady from the Center for American Progress wants Zimmerman prosecuted again for the sole purpose of creating a racial catharsis for America.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    And they dropped right there without giving Welch a chance to rebut Aisha.

  • A Serious Man||

    She literally referred to Martin as a child and a little boy.

  • sticks||

    Think she refers to 17 year old as children when they are on trial for murder?

  • A Serious Man||

    Indeed, like how Marcotte and the feminists were insistent on referring to the Steubenville rapists as children during their trial.

  • RBS||

    I don't know how he does it. I'd want to strangle everyone in the room.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    A room full of liberals who think protection against double jeopardy is inconvenient.

  • Bill||

    "liberals" or "progressives"

  • PH2050||

    At least Welch gets to talk on Red Eye. I always enjoy the show when he's a guest.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    the lady from the Center for American Progress

    "You keep using that word [progress]; I do not think it means what you think it means."

  • Caleb Turberville||

    "Progress": Protection against double jeopardy is an archaic vestige from colonial times.

  • Killazontherun||

    That which progresses the interest of a total state is what they have always meant by the phrase. In the first generation of progressives, it was well understood that the movement was a reaction against classical liberalism.

  • Anders||

    I have had the pleasure of meeting my town's SWAT commander. I refrained from asking him why on earth we need a SWAT team at all given the stats but he did say, in front of many people, that whilst he understands people's concerns about constitutional rights...he will do whatever is necessary to ensure public safety.

    He said this with a nice smile.

    It was so re-assuring.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Did I miss something?

    Yes. Keep watching. The mask will come off.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    whilst he understands people's concerns about constitutional rights...he will do whatever is necessary to ensure public OFFICER safety.

  • Anders||

    He also mentioned that he would round people up and detain or force them to take vaccines in the event of an outbreak of some kind of bio attack.

    "Whatever it takes".

    I will say he has a most excellent Les Baer custom 1911 though. It's very, very shiny.

  • Anders||

    Basically he was like a character out of those super paranoid prepper novels like "Lights Out!".

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Cool! Paranoid novels is an aspect of Prepper culture I've missed out on, in spite of being (according to my friends) a "weirdo survivalist" for over thirty years.

    Farnham's Freehold and Lucifer's Hammer I know. Others?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Others?

    Jesus, Amazon is chock full of them. It's like it's own genre now. Look up "post apocalyptic fiction" on Amazon, you get stuff like this or this.

    Quality really varies, as does ideological bent.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Quality really varies, as does ideological bent.

    Of course. And thank you. I'm getting ready to go on vacation -- my first 100% kidless vacation since the Jurassic. I'm looking for beach and deck reading.

  • Anders||

    I may or may not be a survivalist but surely you have read Patriots? I mean come on, genre classic.

  • Anders||

    I must say though, I slogged through 2 out of the 10 books of 299 days and that was just the most badly written prepper porn out there.

    The author is in the state of Washington, which admittedly is about to do a state-level Detroit...but some kind of authorial standards must be maintained.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I haven't read the 299 Days series as I'm waiting for some sort of omnibus anthology to come out.

    For a twist on the genre, I recommend A Land of Ash. The event is a bit out there (the Yellowstone supervolcano), but the authors (it's a series of connected short stories) make a point by having the super-survivalist mountain man be the first fatality. I don't want to say more due to spoilers.

  • Virginian||

    I like the less apocalyptic ones and more libertarian ones. Like Unintended Consequences, Net Assets, and Alongside Night.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    I like the less apocalyptic ones and more libertarian ones. Like Unintended Consequences, Net Assets, and Alongside Night.

    Whew! I've been hoping to find new reading... Be careful what you ask for, right?

  • Live Free or Diet||

    For a twist on the genre, I recommend A Land of Ash.

    Sounds like fun -- "Oh shit, we lost our expert!" -- and my favorite form is novellas, followed closely by short stories.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    I must say though, I slogged through 2 out of the 10 books of 299 days and that was just the most badly written prepper porn out there.

    Yikes! OK, maybe I'll skip those.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    I may or may not be a survivalist

    Like I said, my friends call me one. I've kept a "Go Pack" and a 5-gallon can of stabilized fuel ever since I bought my first car. It's been a handy thing many times over the years, to have a spare set of clothes and hat, a little food and water, a blanket, a few little camp tools, and an old AR-7.

    but surely you have read Patriots? I mean come on, genre classic.

    Hmm. I just looked up the book. Looks like three books. Thanks, I'll give them a look-see.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Oh, and how much do you bench prep?

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Oh, and how much do you bench prep?

    Well... As I mentioned above, I've always kept a Go Bag. It's essentially a weekend camping kit. My wife and each kid has one as well.

    We always have about two weeks of food (with some strange meals) in the house. I have enough .22LR rounds to last me 5 shots a day for the rest of my very optimistic life expectancy (this was actually a mistake - my wife bought two cases I didn't know about), plus ammo and reloading supplies for several more serious firearms.

    We live on an old farm (this is still rather new to us) with about 6 acres cleared and planted mostly in three kinds of clover to see what takes best. We keep goats, chickens, and presently some cattle.

    The old house has a tin roof, and stone-faced concrete walls. I'm still putting in new windows. New doors will be next. After they're installed anyone trying to break in will earn his pay.

    The barn is a wreck. I shored it up and roofed it on the cheap for storage. My generator is from the 1990-something. We keep enough gas for about two weeks out of power. I think alcohol in the gas has started taking its toll.

  • Agammamon||

    I don't know that I would call 'Lucifer's Hammer' a prepper novel.

    The only prepper I can recall ended up losing his cabin to his hired man and getting left to fend for himself.

  • Lord at War||

    The only prepper I can recall ended up losing his cabin to his hired man and getting left to fend for himself.

    Duh! Obviously NOT prepared.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Duh! Obviously NOT prepared.

    IIRC the "cabin" was an observatory that belonged to the soap-heir playboy who discovered The Hammer. And no, he was not prepared at all.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    The only prepper I can recall ended up losing his cabin to his hired man and getting left to fend for himself.

    Please tell me prepper novels aren't about "how smart we are to be ready for anything"? That would be boring. And I think it's literally impossible in real life. An Atlantic tsunami could conceivably deposit everything I own 150 miles west in the Shenandoah Valley.

  • Lord at War||

    LFoD--

    Not necessarily "prepper", but a good analysis of 'assessing your needs'/'what you can carry' is in Heinlein's "Time Enough for Love".

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Heinlein's "Time Enough for Love".

    Love the book! Never thought about it that way. Are you thinking about the part after Dora grows up? I don't mind admitting the end of that story made me cry.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It's not paranoia if the villain actually exists and conforms to the depiction in the novel....

  • Live Free or Diet||

    US Marshal Upset That Couple His Police Gang Terrorized Went to the Press

    If the Marshall didn't do anything wrong, he has nothing to worry about. Right?

  • croaker||

    He's pissed off that she didn't suck his dick like a good little serf.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    We should have a law that any LEO caught employing excessive force in this manner will henceforth only be issued one bullet. And he will be required to keep it in his shirt breast pocket. Call it the Barney Fife rule. The second law would be that any LEOs that want to employ military tactics and equipment must spend one weekend per month for their entire careers in a Marine boot camp.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Screw that. It only takes one bullet to kill someone. When someone has demonstrated their incompetence by using excessive force, if you let them remain in the LEO business at all, they should be chalking tires and writing tickets.

    Oh, wait. That would require literacy.

    -jcr

  • croaker||

    No, require them to submit to a double orchidectomy. Want to carry a badge and a gun? Turn in your balls.

    That should weed out all the gestapo wannabes.

  • Tejicano||

    "must spend one weekend per month for their entire careers in a Marine boot camp."

    Nah, too safe and easy. Make them spend a weekend with a Marine Infantry unit with at least one combat action or a good, long forced march as part of the deal.

    I handled Marine Boot Camp relatively easily. It took me six months to get used to life as a Marine Grunt.

  • PH2050||

    ^THIS

  • DaveSs||

    I'm from the government and I'm here to ensure you submit.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Matt Wiggins of the US Marshal's fugitive division, responded to the request that he prove his claim to be a police officer by cursing and threatening to shoot the frightened couple.

    If that behavior had resulted in Wiggins taking two rounds in the head, and the government decided to persecute the innocent person for defending herself, the persecuting attorney would not want me on her jury.

    -jcr

  • Killazontherun||

    The way I feel about prosecutors and the state after the last twenty years from Waco to this just the latest state organized thuggery, I would let Charles Manson walk. Seriously.

  • John C. Randolph||

    I'd shoot Manson myself, personally. He is one sick little elron-hubbard wannabe.

    -jcr

  • Killazontherun||

    And I would buy you the gun, in case you couldn't get yours through security.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    The Royal Baby already has a wikipedia page.

  • RBS||

    I find the American public's obsession the British Royal Family to be equal parts sad and pathetic.

  • Acosmist||

    The American public is obsessed with that? When did I lose my citizenship?!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I saw a reference to the "works bomb" above, and decided to investigate. Intellectual curiosity, etc, etc.

    Surprise!

    Warning! The Works bomb is illegal to make! Don’t do it! The information below is purely for educational purposes (such as research papers) and may leave leaves out crucial steps. UPDATE: As of June 2011 key steps to making what is known as The Works Bomb have been omitted from this post as a result of the recent prosecution of a person who told others how to make the bomb. While I strongly encourage scientific exploration and showing how much fun science can be, some people have used The Works Bomb in menacing ways, making it a serious crime to make one and/or tell someone how to make one. Regardless of my beliefs about the right for information on all things to be freely available for people’s education, I had to delete information previously displayed in this post in order to ensure I can continue my education and not be put in jail.

    Just don't mention the police state.

  • A Serious Man||

    I'm now convinced that Twitter does more harm than good: Geraldo Rivera tweeted a semi-nude picture of himself.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    I hope the folks at the NSA enjoyed seeing it retweeted thousands of times.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    Geraldo Rivera tweeted a semi-nude picture of himself.

    Must be running for office in New York.

  • ||

    + 5 inches

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Here I sit, killing time until the MotoGP race from Laguna starts, and I flipped over to MSNBC just in time to catch a (surprise) RETHUGLITARDZ R EVUL OBSTRUSHUNISMZ segment. Howard Dean, who used to know better, is now claiming health "insurance" is the same as health "care". Dean also wants you to know the Kochs are Satan's minions. They then ran part of that awesome, "Obamacare is the best because it will bankrupt all the evil insurance companies by eliminating coverage caps!" ad.

    Also, repealing or threatening to repel laws is un-American, or something.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    MotoGP race from Laguna starts

    I can't find a working link for that anywhere.

  • SIV||

    The Koch brothers used ALEC tp pass all the Stand Your Ground laws.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Lady, the only reason your plan is working is that all these pilots are hoping you'll help them join the Mile High Club.

  • RBS||

    She should totally take her jethiking international. Nothing terrible could ever happen...

  • PH2050||

    "It isn't easy and there is a lot of waiting involved," Amber warns. "I can't really plan much since I often have no idea where I'm heading to next, and flights get cancelled all the time for weather (or anything really)."

    So basically, if you have a 9-5 you could never do this.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    To be fair, if you go to her website, it's clear that she's not advocating this as an alternative to commercial aviation, but as a way to popularize general aviation and perhaps motivate some folks in getting their private pilot's license.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah it works because, as with the gun culture, lots of people in the general aviation like giving newbies a taste of the hobby to bring more people in.

    I know I have an open invitation to take anyone who wants to go shooting to the range and show them the ropes, and I've had a good number of people take me up on it. With this thing, I think if I had to hop a solo flight of five or six hours I might want some company.

  • PH2050||

    Ah, thanks for pointing that out. Interesting.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Lady, the only reason your plan is working is that all these pilots are hoping you'll help them join the Mile High Club.

    Pilots have to be perverts, right? Listen to the terms they use:
    joystick
    cockpit
    vertical stabilizer
    dead stick (hey, it happens)
    dirty up
    knot
    pitch
    roll
    trim
    tower
    Then they're always trying to get some girl to give 'em a standard rate turn.

  • SOFL Hockey Fan||

    "But she also scrambled across the floor to her bedroom and grabbed her gun, a five-shot .38-caliber revolver. Goldsberry has a concealed weapons permit and says the gun has made her feel safer living alone."

    I wonder if the reporter knows that in Florida a CWP is not necessary in your home.

  • Tejicano||

    You maight be correct that the reporter does not know this. But I read it as the reporter explaining to the average dimwit that she was a legitimate gun owner - not some semi-felon who bought a gun for the wrong reasons.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Police in the US state of Ohio are searching a neighbourhood in a Cleveland suburb after the discovery of three dead women there.
    Police said the women, who were all black, had been wrapped in several plastic bags and are believed to have been killed in the last 10 days.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Well, it's obvious; ZIMMERMAN STRIKES AGAIN!

  • ||

    He's teamed up with Casey Anthony and they're living out the plot of Natural Born Killers.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    Dexter M.O.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Speedvision, Archduke. Now. Live.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    don't get it here, but I found a link

  • np||

  • Irish||

    And subsequently got called a nigger and an Uncle Tom by tolerant liberals on Twitter.

    Liberals: We aren't racist and are super tolerant UNLESS YOU'RE A FILTHY UNCLE TOM HOUSE NIGGER, BOY!

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    and he has no rings so his opinion don't count!

  • AlmightyJB||

    That's SOP for the left.

  • np||

    I suspect he'll be denied hosting or commentating opportunities from now on

  • AlmightyJB||

    I think Barley should move from analyzing sports to analyzing news. That's a win-win. I disagree with him that it was clear that Zimmerman racial profiled him but other than that pretty well thought out.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Didn't he run for office in Alabama?

  • John||

    I love this "child rapist" bullshit. Since when are child molesters dangerous or hard to capture?

  • A Serious Man||

    You mean criminals who specifically prey on weak and helpless children are probably cowards and weaklings?

    Who would have thought that?

  • John||

    It is difficult to imagine any criminal who would actually require a SWAT team to capture. Look at bail bondsman. They do after some pretty nasty people. But they don't have SWAT teams.

  • A Serious Man||

    It's a media effect. People remember the North Hollywood shootout when armed robbers with AK-47s shot-up the LAPD, so of course every city across America wants a SWAT team.

    And since a scenario involving heavily armed robbers almost never happens, SWATs are left with nothing better to do than run around busting up illegal card games and people smoking the reefer.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Who needs SWAT? A Springfield rifle with AP tips solves Hollywood Shooters pretty quick.

    Ironically, most SWAT guys carry around M4's, which essentially are full-auto Varminters. They are not high-power rifles.

  • np||

    Without knowing any more details, I'd even give the "child rapist" the benefit of the doubt. Consensual sex with a highschooler is considered child rape.

  • John||

    Chances are he was a little league coach who felt up some boys or something. If he had a federal warrant, he was more than just a teenager with a young g/f. Remember the federal marshals were after him. But regardless, when is the last time a child molester shot a cop?

  • Agammamon||

    Marshalls could have been after him simply because he moved across a state-line.

    And you're right - when was the last time pedo-bear got in a firefight with police.

  • Bill||

    I think you are misinterpreting this. It was not someone who raped a child. It was a child running around raping people.

  • Agammamon||

    Oh, well that's ok then.

  • mr lizard||

    I think a lot of this will calm down as soon as federal dollars dry up for stoooooooopid random shit like this. Color Me optimistic, but I think that regardless of the rampant money still talks. BTW I suck at making a proper bloody Mary so if you're doing Sunday Funday in Ybor, drink with the giant reptile at your own risk.

  • John||

    That is an interesting point. These teams are expensive as shit to maintain.

  • mr lizard||

    I'm glad you made sense of that post. I'll reiterate that I'm feeling especially optimistic. I think the American inner greed will keep us in this Soft Police state zone for the foreseeable future. Definitely not cool, but I can't see how they can transition to full blown FYTW. Especially given the ever increasing private weapons inventory.

    Ironically they would be better off relaxing all gun laws and backing off all the bullshit.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Wow. Thanks for the link.

  • TheSpiteHouse||

    I noticed the guy giving 'thumbs up'.

  • ||

    [...]
    Antonio Morrison was barking up the wrong tree early Sunday morning.

    The Florida linebacker was arrested and charged with barking at a police dog and resisting arrest, both misdemeanors, following a run-in with cops outside an after-hours club in Gainesville.

    But at least the Gators sophomore has a good excuse: the dog barked at him first.
    [...]

    Florida linebacker Antonio Morrison arrested after barking at police dog: This is the second arrest in less than a month for the 19-year-old, who was collared on June 16 for punching a bouncer. In this instance, he told cops he barked at the dog because the dog barked at him first.

  • Anders||

    Barking at a Police Dog is a crime now?

    Awesome.

  • RBS||

    Contempt of K-9.

  • Killazontherun||

    That's K-9 Officer to you, little people.

  • Atanarjuat||

    I guess we can add "misdemeanor" to a list of words that no longer has any meaning.

  • Agammamon||

    Wait, wouldn't *barking* be protected by the first amendment?

    I mean, police dogs are cops and I can tell a cop to go fuck himself (legally).

  • Bill||

    Not and live.

  • Agammamon||

    But, assuming I *did* live, the charges the cop files against me will be dropped. Eventually.

  • ||

    God, some of those commenters are such authoritarian cocksuckers:

    Resisting arrest is a serious crime, as this dingbat will soon learn. You seem to think you are entitled to say or do what ever you like where ever & however you like to - Apparently you were raised about as well as this kid was.

    If my parents caught me talking back to a Cop or taunting a dog they would smack me upside the head & ask where Ilearned to actlike a fool. Just because you feel you have the 'right' to cuss out a cop doesn't make it a good idea & it sure doesn;t mean anyone will feel bad for you when that Cop gives you an attitude adjustment by arresting you.

    It's also dangerous for a cop to allow behavior like that to go unchecked - In a large crowd of people, it could cause a riot. People see HIM gettting away with this behavior & it emboldens them to act the fool too. Pretty soon it escalates into something dangerous & it all gets prevented by nipping it in the bud.

    Grab this smartazzz & check his attitude. If he can't take a hint & his friends can't convince him to wise up, then he gets arrested. Looks like his big mouth & punk attitude cost him at least 2 games from an 11 game season.

    Think he's gonna go to his coach & whine about his rights to free spech?
  • ant1sthenes||

    When talking about USG's authoritarian cocksuckers specifically, the word is "fedophiles".

  • np||

  • ||

    "Out of control schoolgirl arrested by police, charged with felony".

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Soviet Board games 1920-1938

  • Agammamon||

    What, no "Monopoly"?

  • ||

    The marshal needs to man up. You don't point your gun at somebody unless you have specific articulable facts they represent a serious danger to you. He had no such facts, just some people who were questioning his ID. People have that right. I've had it happen to me. I give them my employee # and tell them to call dispatch if they want to confirm my identity, or if practical, to look out the window at my police car, if it's visible. I say that as a firearms instructor who teaches this stuff to both 'civilians' and cops. There are rules about when you should actually point your gun at somebody, and they exist for good reason. Assuming arguendo the people who went to the press are telling the truth about him pointing the gun at him, they are well within reason and their rights in being pissed off about it.

    Going to the press is a refuge that we have when faced with govt misconduct and the marshal needs to man up and take his lumps.

    I've gone on raids, tactical entries etc. and I know the rules and he violated them, as well as common sense. Pointing a gun at somebody is a serious thing, and you have to be justified in doing so. It can obviously escalate an encounter, which is why you don't do it unless it's justified.

  • Agammamon||

    Uh, apparently he was pointing the gun *before* they questioned his ID.

    He was pointing it into the window looking onto the kitchen. That's when the occupant first saw him. Pointing a gun at her through the window.

  • Agammamon||

    Of course, discounting the fact that all that can be faked, cops have been known to murder people, in public, in uniform - counting on the uniform to allow them to get close to their victims.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-1180833.html

    Its stuff like this, Dunphy, that hurts you 'good cops' when you don't clean out your forces trash.

  • ||

    I am aware of that case. I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Some cops are evil, just like some people in any profession. Obviously, the above mentioned case is about the most egregious in the history of law enforcement.

    The case we are discussing here is a serious breach of common sense and proper tactics, and hardly comparable to somebody who executed people for hire.

    I'm proud that my agency does a pretty damn good job at weeding out the bad apples WHILE respecting due process etc. Sometimes they violate due process and get spanked (unjustly fire somebody etc.), but on the whole they do a pretty darn good job.

    I've never seen a single corrupt act in 15 yrs in my current agency. I have seen exactly one blatant example of excessive force and the officer who committed it was properly punished.

  • Agammamon||

    My point is that those cops didn't jump right into killing people for the mob. Theirs a bunch of bad stuff they did prior that their fellow cops helped cover up or turned a blind eye to.

    And that's the norm.

    When its the norm, its not to be unexpected that little old ladies won't stop for the traffic cop in the middle of the night without first calling dispatch (and then getting that cop to bet the crap out of her for not stopping quickly enough)

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_new.....s-cop?lite

    Or how about this one from a traffic stop deemed illegal.

    http://www.10news.com/news/911.....e-06172013

  • Anders||

    Dunphy says:

    "The case we are discussing here is a serious breach of common sense and proper tactics, and hardly comparable to somebody who executed people for hire."

    Actually we're talking about possible criminal actions by the LEOs in question. And what their agency is betting on is that the victims do not hire a lawyer.

    That's how this plays out.

    Henderson Police recently performed a home invasion and are no doubt surprised that the victims have retained counsel.

    HPD will no doubt be advised by their lawyers to settle this idiocy out of court.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....57431.html

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Some cops are evil, just like some people in any profession.

    In what other profession can the professionals claim sovereign immunity?

  • PH2050||

    Can't even get immunity in the military.

    Seems like we had more restrictive ROEs than most PDs.

  • Xenocles||

    You did. And there's no prohibition on hollowpoints for LEOs, either.

  • PH2050||

    Damn. Didn't know that.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Sovereign immunity is a bar to civil action, not criminal prosecution.

    Can members of the military be personally sued for acts committed during wartime?

  • ||

    Are the cops at war with us? Oh, right...

  • ||

    Word

  • Robert||

    That's what I don't understand. What rxn was he expecting from pointing his weapon at an unknown occupant he hadn't even communicated with? And if the sequence of events was as reported above, what was the point of ransacking the place before showing them the picture of the fugitive? And does "ransacking" mean looking for places someone might hide, or does it mean just making a mess?

  • Rhywun||

    And does "ransacking" mean looking for places someone might hide, or does it mean just making a mess?

    My guess would be "looking for drugs".

  • ||

    AKA "looking for an excuse to justify his prior actions"

  • andarm16||

    Huffington Post disturbed over creepy new line of dolls.
    (and no, it's not because the dolls in question are horrible horse human hybrids)

  • ||

    I guess they never read any Piers Anthony books.

  • JeremyR||

    I wish I had never read any Piers Anthony books.

  • Rhywun||

    I wish I had never read any Piers Anthony books.

    Heh. Yeah he's a hack but the series alluded to above is actually pretty decent.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    Matt Wiggins of the US Marshal's fugitive division

    I just couldn't help but seeing Chief Wiggum in my head when I read this.

  • Sevo||

    OT:
    The Chron used to feature a catastophist named Peter Gleick who routinely sort of 'missed facts' regarding energy production, 'green' this and that. He got tossed when he got caught impersonating someone else in an attempt to discredit those who don't agree with him; he's a typical lefty hypocrite. Who knows how many times he got away with it.
    So now they have a new columnist who for some reason is published under the hint that he has some knowledge of tech ("Dot Commentary"). He doesn't; he's strictly J-school lefty, but now he's pimping for the proven hypocrite re climate change (some "Dot", right?).
    Anyhow, today we find that "Global warming hasn't stopped", accompanied by various graphs (with what look like seriously exaggerated vertical scales), and then:

    "“When you look at the bigger picture, warming hasn’t stopped,” Gleick said.
    Now some scientists do think there’s a possibility that the climate system is slightly less sensitive to growing carbon dioxide concentrations than previously thought. A report published in May in the journal Nature Geoscience looked at temperatures in the last decade and concluded that “equilibrium climate sensitivity,” might fall into the lower part of earlier ranges."
    http://blog.sfgate.com/techchr.....heres-why/

  • PH2050||

    Models that make incorrect predictions are not flawed! Reality is flawed!

  • Agammamon||

    REVILE THE MUTANT! HATE THE ALIEN!

    I'm not sure which category these abomination fit into, except they're definitely not heretics. The Emperor never saw fit to bestow his divine grace upon these wretches.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    The more I find out about the NSA stuff the worse, but also just the stranger, it gets. This is from an article by Richard Epstein who defends the program in general but then highlights some parts of it that concern him. As to that he notes "all appointees to the FISA Court are made by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court" and "10 of the 11 FISA court judges are Republicans."

    That strikes me as bizarre. It's not so much that the court is mostly Republicans (though I think in general Democrat appointees tend to have better views on the Fourth Amendment), but why in the world would you give one person who is in no way accountable to the people the power to appoint all the judges? Chief justices often serve for decades. That means essentially friends of Roberts will be running the FISA court for decades. Am I the only one that finds that not only troubling, but downright bizarre? Who comes up with that idea?

  • Sevo||

    I find it at least as troubling that Epstein is blowing it off.

  • Irish||

    Why is this court the only one that the president doesn't select the judges for? I guess they don't want the president stacking the court with judges that are beholden to him, but a president only serves 8 years, whereas a Chief Justice can serve for 20-30 years. In Roberts' case, he's very young for a chief justice and could be around for a while.

    I'd rather have someone who only serves for 4-8 years selecting the judges than someone who serves for decades.

  • Agammamon||

    Even better, the judges can only sit during that president's term and have to either be re-appointed or replaced every 4 years no matter what.

  • Irish||

    Even better, the judges can only sit during that president's term and have to either be re-appointed or replaced every 4 years no matter what.

    Disagree. I WANT judges from the prior president to still be sitting on the FISA court of the current president. That way, FISA judges from a Republican administration might be more likely not to green light a Democrat and vice versa.

    Of course, even that probably isn't true, but I think it's better than allowing a president to choose 11 of his own judges.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    These are all good suggestions. I like Epstein's, that judge selection should at least be in the hands of some other justices (perhaps the Chief and the two most senior), more balance on the FISA court itself (though this really is the least important), and having a full time advocate paid to argue against each warrant request. The key is to get some sense of an adversary procedure as well as accountability.

  • Sevo||

    Bo Cara Esq.| 7.21.13 @ 8:15PM |#
    "These are all good suggestions."

    OK, I have question:
    Who decides who chooses judges? Is this one of Obozo's 'I'll make a royal decree' issues?
    The courts are grounded in the Constitution; how does this "court" fit in there? Why is it even called a "court"?
    It seems it's a collection of political appointees who are 'graced' with the title of 'judge'.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Here's what the NYT story Epstein refers to says on that.

    -Created by Congress in 1978 as a check against wiretapping abuses by the government, the court meets in a secure, nondescript room in the federal courthouse in Washington. All of the current 11 judges, who serve seven-year terms, were appointed to the special court by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., and 10 of them were nominated to the bench by Republican presidents.

    -President George W. Bush, under a secret wiretapping program that circumvented the FISA court, authorized the N.S.A. to collect metadata and in some cases listen in on foreign calls to or from the United States. After a heated debate, the essential elements of the Bush program were put into law by Congress in 2007, but with greater involvement by the FISA court.

  • Sevo||

    "-President George W. Bush, under a secret wiretapping program that circumvented the FISA court, authorized the N.S.A. to collect metadata and in some cases listen in on foreign calls to or from the United States. After a heated debate, the essential elements of the Bush program were put into law by Congress in 2007, but with greater involvement by the FISA court."

    Anyone recall the "heated debate" on the issue? Slipped right by me, and I do try to keep up on things.

  • Agammamon||

    The second place loser in the presidential election gets to select which judges are confirmed by congress.

  • Generic Stranger||

    (though I think in general Democrat appointees tend to have better views on the Fourth Amendment)

    {{Citation Needed}}

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Since it is a general claim, I can only point you to any casebook on Criminal Law and Procedure.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Oh, here's the Epstein article:

    http://ricochet.com/main-feed/.....Dodd-Frank

  • Sevo||

    Thanks.
    "Barnett and I disagree, however, on the matter of the NSA, on which I give the national security interest much more weight than he does. In the case of the NSA, the internal controls are far stronger than those with the CFPB."
    Sorry, it's not how you weigh anything: A4. That's all that matters.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Well, the 4th is all about weighing. It's not a categorical provision like the 1st, it bars 'unreasonable' searches and seizures, so it's all about balancing.

    There was a time when SCOTUS seemed to have a 'warrant requirement' or 'warrant preference' and so weighing wasn't so prominent. That went out as the more liberal Warrant court passed into the more conservative Burger and Rehnquist court, not most scholars say we are in the 'reasonableness' era. See DRESSLER & MICHAELS, UNDERSTANDING CRIMINAL PROCEDURE.

  • Sevo||

    I presume from your handle that you are a lawyer; I'm not.
    But you claim that A4 is 'about weighing'. I see this:
    "along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause."
    So before there is any "weighing" of activity to search, first there must be a probable cause.
    I know you're not that shitstain Roberts, so there is not accusation involved, but it seems A4 is also being 'used', not to say 'corrupted'.

  • Killazontherun||

    “I went above and beyond,” Wiggins said. “I have to go home at night.”

    Knocking on the door and making a polite inquiry would have been much safer than the crap you pulled, asshole.

  • Robert||

    Isn't Wiggins the fat cop in Simpson cartoons?

  • William of Purple||

    Wiggum.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Close enough, citizen.

  • Robert||

    Is there an explanation in the article as to why the US was even involved in this case?

  • Hyperion||

    I read about this incident a few days ago, and as usual with these type of stories, I felt outraged.

    As I was driving, yesterday, to an event that I had to go to, I felt a very real and strange sensation that I am living in some kind of Orwellian dystopia. This is not the country that I grew up in. It barely even resembles it. I feel like a stranger in a strange land.

    And yet, people like Tulpa and Cytotoxic don't even seem to notice that our rights and freedoms are being obliterated at an ever increasing pace.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Do you really think things are worse than they were, say 25 years ago? Free trade has increased considerably. We now have Supreme Court precedent for an individual 2nd Amendment right that means that now concealed carry is available in every state. At the state level several states have legalized marijuana, that was unheard of in 25 years ago. Vermont just became the third state to allow physician assisted suicide.

    And if we take a broader view, say 75 years, things have really gotten better I'd say. Apart from the obvious improvements away from horrible, state sanctioned discrimination against blacks, women and gays, incorporation of the Bill of Rights has put the most substantial limitations on use of police and correctional officer authority in our history, allowed unprecedented freedom of speech, ended state sponsored religious observances and more.

    We have to always be vigilant of course, but I see some really important improvements in liberty.

  • Irish||

    Do you really think things are worse than they were, say 25 years ago?

    Yes. We're less free economically in virtually ever way except for a few trade treaties. The government is spying on people in unprecedented numbers. The police have become a borderline occupying military with military hardware, a mentality more at home in Iraq than Boston, and a compliant legal system that lets them go for crimes that would get normal citizens decades in prison. Add to that the advent of drone war and we can wage constant war in countries we haven't declared war on, but we don't have any troops there so no one ever complains about how horrifying this is.

    We are unquestionably worse off than a quarter century ago. A few bright spots does not make up for the ever advancing darkness.

  • Rhywun||

    This is not the country that I grew up in.

    That country had a good run, but... terrorism drug pedo something something.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Do you have an extra chromosome or something? I am always talking about our rights and freedoms being in danger-although the notion that we are much worse off than in the times of military draft and segregation is debatable. Of course, being an idiot, you've read 'debatable' and processed it as vindication of your own sanctimony.

  • Irish||

    I don't know why he included you with Tulpa. I disagree with you about issues of warfare and foreign policy, but you're consistently on the right side when it comes to domestic rights.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I'd think the right not to be incinerated for the crime of living in a Muslim country ranks pretty high on the list, maybe even higher than gay marriage.

  • ||

    "It is difficult to imagine any criminal who would actually require a SWAT team to capture. Look at bail bondsman. They do after some pretty nasty people. But they don't have SWAT teams."

    I think you are divorced from reality. I had 3 guys in my unit (we did lower risk warrants vs. SWAT that does the higher risk ones) shot in just ONE warrant service. And that was just a medium risk warrant. There are some heavily armed sprackers out there who set dangerous boobie traps that patrol is not trained to deal with, and whose compounds are well fortified and difficult to breach, let alone in a way where we have the upper hand. SWAT, when used PROPERLY (proper risk matrix assessment) is able to handle the higher risk details with much greater safety margin, greater skill set, and is going to be more likely to be able to take the suspect into custody w.o using deadly force. At least my dept swat team has a very low ratio of the # OF TIMES they use deadly force vs. their deployment rate.

  • ||

    SWAT is a valuable tool and absolutely a benefit to the public and to law enforcement WHEN used properly. The problem isn't SWAT qua SWAT. It's misuse of SWAT that is the big problem. Proper risk assessments need to be done etc. Also, there is a huge variation in our democratic republic with little standardization nationwide, in the capability of SWAT members. Some agencies have exceptional SWAT teams. Others don't. A poorly trained SWAT team is a huge liability.

    And they ARE out there. The good ones are a huge benefit to everyone - suspects, cops, the public etc. because they have the equipment and the skills to handle the higher risk entries and arrests

  • Agammamon||

    The problem Dunphy, is that any force with a SWAT team is going to want to use that SWAT team.

    Mainly because the less likely your force is to *actually need* a SWAT team means that your SWAT team is less likely to be properly trained and equipped and the button pusher is less likely to have the training, heck just the self-restraint, to know when *not* to push the button.

    I live in a *county* of less than 200,000 people and we have 2 SWAT teams. Yuma County Sheriff's have one and Yuma City PD have one. There's 100,000 people in Yuma county (and all the little towns) and 100,000 in Yuma itself.

  • ||

    I've addressed this many times. SWAT is just like any govt. entity. It seeks to justify its own existence and cries out to be OVERUSED.

    That's one of the big problems. I've worked in my agency to change the rules such that our SWAT team is NOT used for "all drug warrants" which was a rule at one time. So, unlike most of the wankers here who complain but do nothing, I've actually tried to change the status quo with SWAT and it was eventually changed (I was hardly the only person advocating for such change).

    But you are correct. There are many poorly trained SWAT teams out there.

    Again, the problem is not SWAT qua SWAT. It's a great concept and a huge positive when well trained and when used properly, and NOT used properly, so to speak.

  • Agammamon||

    So the remedy is *not* to utilize SWAT properly, its to starve the beast so that only places that have a real need for the fethers will fork over the money for one.

  • ||

    No. The remedy is to train SWAT well and to have proper risk analysis procedures as for when they are used. Also, ASAP training needs to be done, as it is often necessary in situations where you can't wait for SWAT.

    I was called off a warrant attempt today (they are using SWAT) because the guy we were going to go after has past history of shooting at police. It's tailor made for SWAT.

    A person like that is going to be more likely to be taken in WITHOUT getting shot or shooting one of us if SWAT handles it. They have shit like flash bangs, better ballistic protection, snipers, shields, way more less lethal options, etc. We don't.

    SWAT is a very valuable tool and a boon to the public, to suspects and to officers WHEN properly used

  • Agammamon||

    Except training DOESN"T WORK does it. We see this all the time - some group of cops screw up and its blamed on 'lack of training', we'll just train 'em right next time.
    And yet they're never trained right are they? Because they keep doing the same stupid dangerous shit over and over.

    Only in government do you get to increase your budget when you screw up or fail to produce.

  • PH2050||

    "I've worked in my agency to change the rules such that our SWAT team is NOT used for "all drug warrants" which was a rule at one time."

    That's awesome.

  • PH2050||

    Of course, I can't help but wonder why a rule like that even existed in the first place. What happened to ORM and all that shit?

  • Ted S.||

    Of course, I can't help but wonder why a rule like that even existed in the first place.

    Because fuck you, that's why.

    Of course, drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place.

  • Ted S.||

    The problem Dunphy, is that any force with a SWAT team is going to want to use that SWAT team.

    This reminds me of something I've said regarding campaign finance. We give Big Government enormous power to screw up people's lives. It's only logical that people will go to great lengths to ensure that Big Government is screwing up someone else's life.

    The obvious solution is to make certain Big Government doesn't have that power to screw up people's lives, but it's depressing to see how many people think the right people need to have the power, and in fact need to be given more power.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    The problems are that (a) the media almost NEVER reports on these incidents for fear of losing police access, and (b) an economically comfortable white person has like a 1 in 10,000 chance of being affected by a bad SWAT raid.

    Like Dunphy said, there are situations where you really do need a SWAT team and you can't predict these in advance. As the saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have. The solution is citizen control of police, but that's quite a difficult knot to untangle particularly since we're starting from a situation where police agencies are out of control.

  • Agammamon||

    You're absolutely right, maybe we should keep the war on drugs since sometimes people hurt themselves and all the other problems of prohibition are just something you have to deal with in order to stop a minority from hurting themselves.

    Fuck that - sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

  • Anders||

    3 guys in your 'unit' got shot serving a low risk warrant?

    Sounds like bad risk analysis, bad planning, poor observation, insufficient skill with weapons, and general ineptitude.

    Maybe you need to cross-train with TSA.

  • ||

    No, it means that just because a warrant SEEMS low risk doesn't mean it will be low risk. You never know who can snap.

    The officers did nothing wrong. Guy walked up on them from the outside with hands in pocket. THey told him to get his hands out of his pocket. He closed the distance, drew his gun and started firing. He got killed by the officers but got his rounds off. There was no way to predict that factor in the risk analysis.

    Law Enforcement is like poker. It's a game of limited information. Juset as Pocket A's can sometimes lose to 7 2 offsuit,a warrant can appear low risk and turn out to be anything but. Just like a "routine traffic stop" with an apparent soccer mom can turn deadly. You never know.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Law Enforcement is like poker.

    Occifer Dunphy likes to play poker, especially when your life is the big blind.

  • ||

    "Occifer"? how much you had to drink, buddy?

    Here, wrap your lips around this and blow!

  • ||

    http://www.urbandictionary.com.....rm=occifer

    Have a nice night, Occifer Dunphy.

  • Xenocles||

    The first two entries are related to drunkenness, Darius. You may need to expand a little.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Drink? Not nearly enough to transmute your unique brand of petty tyranny into rational thought.

    Are you propositioning me, Occifer Dunphy? This isn't the weight-room at the police station. Go trawl some cadets and police candidates for sex. Or go rape a hooker like a normal cop.

  • ||

    Don't be so petty. It's a precision instrument. Cmon, wrap your lips and blow. If you aren't DUI, you can exonerate yourself.

  • ||

    Cmon, wrap your lips and blow

    Glad to know we have such an expert at blowing on our hands, Occifer.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Don't be so petty. It's a precision instrument.

    Precise like a .5 mm screwdriver. And as easy to lose track of.

    Cmon, wrap your lips and blow.

    Sorry dunphy. Unlike your stable of badge bunnies and toothless meth addicts, I have no interest.

    If you aren't DUI, you can exonerate yourself.

    I'm not driving, Occifer. But thanks again for demonstrating why our system doesn't, and shouldn't, rely on the cops' inadequate understanding of the law.

  • ||

    Our understanding of the law is good enough such that prosecutors rely on us to develop cases, society trusts us to enforce the law, and most cops do so honorably and with proper restraint.

    But I did catch you driving, deny it all you want, and your diction is weak, the odor of an alcoholic beverage strong. I fear you may be DUI. Purse your lips and blow, sweet prince. Do it for jolly ole england!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Our understanding of the law is good enough such that prosecutors rely on us to develop cases

    Sometimes, you even fuck up and tell the truth.

    society trusts us to enforce the law

    Society PAYS you to enforce the law, which you do to the best of your meager abilities.

    and most cops do so honorably and with proper restraint.

    And when they don't, people die, rot in prison, are financially ruined, publically humiliated, or some combination of the aforementioned.

    But we can't make a police state omelette without breaking a few eggs, right Occifer dunphy?

    But I did catch you driving, deny it all you want, and your diction is weak, the odor of an alcoholic beverage strong.

    Cool story, bro.

    I fear you may be DUI.

    Fake tough guys are often given to fear, especially fear with no rational basis.

    Purse your lips and blow, sweet prince.

    How about we come to a sensible middle ground? I'll just hoc a wad of spit in your eye and you can not only feel my DNA on you, but it will dribble down your face, too.

    Win, win.

    Do it for jolly ole england!

    Not only are you a power fellator, but you're a Tory. Figures.

  • Agammamon||

    And of course you would never use copies of old reports and boilerplate to fill in the blanks. YOU would never stop innocent people and accuse them of DUI knowing they'll fight it and padding your overtime pay, would you.

    http://www.duiblog.com/2010/09.....e-reports/

    http://www.duiblog.com/2009/02.....-supercop/

  • ||

    btw, for the trolls with no life. NOT powerlifting. The sport is called "Weightlifting" or sometimes "Olympic Style Weightlifting".

    They are totally different sports. WL'ing involves the Snatch and the Clean and Jerk.

    Powerlifting involves the Bench Press, the squat, and the deadlift

    Powerlifting is actually primarily a test of limit strength, and to some extent, start strength

    Weightlifting tests speed, power, flexibility, proprioreception, start strength, and reactive strength.

    They are VERY different sports. Weightlifting is much more like a track and field event like the javelin in terms of the power component, timing, etc. demands.

    hth trolls

    oh, and smooches to all those trolls who have no life. Get one

  • William of Purple||

  • ||

    You can't limit it to just one.

    Smooches to the trolls

  • ||

    -1/10

    Comment procedures were followed.

    hth

  • ||

    smooches

  • ||

    1/10

    A civilian commenter would have been treated the same way, rest assured.

  • ||

    Equality before the Law (tm) my man.

  • ||

    Some citizens are more equal than others, Occifer.

  • ||

    Not on mah beat, mr!

  • Agammamon||

    Its been raining almost all day. Even thunder!

  • Hyperion||

    It has rained, part of the day, if I have maintained proper track, and I am sure I am not off by more than a day or two, 53 out of the last 60 days, here in Balmer. And again today..

  • Hyperion||

    I haven't had to water any of the plants on my deck, that are not back under the overhang where they can't get rained on, even one time, since putting them outside in April.

  • Agammamon||

    I'm surprised the other plants aren't climbing out of their pots and banging on the door demanding to be let in where its dry.

  • Agammamon||

    It has rained, If I have maintained proper track, and I am sure I am not off at all, exactly 1 out of the last 181 days, here in Yuma. Including today.

    So you can see why I'm happy. Though I can't see why you haven't killed yourself from the depression yet.

  • Ted S.||

    It was nice for once to wake up at 6:30AM and find out it was below 75.

  • Rhywun||

    Here in NYC, I don't even remember what 75 feels like any more. I'm happy we finally got highs under 95.

  • Ted S.||

    Serves you right for living in NYC. :-p

    The one nice thing about the weather was being able to go out on the trails in the state forest after dinner and not run into the bikers who normally use them. Nothing against the bikers, but the solitude is nice.

  • Rhywun||

    Serves you right for living in NYC. :-p

    I like NYC but I've got to tell you it gets a little unpleasant when it's 100 degrees out - everything you might dislike about the place gets magnified like a thousand times.

  • Ted S.||

    I'm not a big city person, which is why I live next to a thousand acres of state forest.

    Of course, last Sunday when I was out for a walk I had encounters with two different adult bears. :-|

  • PH2050||

    Riding the subway on hot summer days blows. The platforms...the smells...I will only ever visit during fall or winter.

  • Agammamon||

    Oh poor baby, in another month our highs might start to drop below 110.

  • Rhywun||

    Heh. Unless that's "dry heat", which we don't get.

  • Agammamon||

    It ain't all that dry - the Salton Sea isn't too far from here. I've riven through fogs in the summer just west of the AZ/CA border when all else is dune sand.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I've never seen a single corrupt act in 15 yrs in my current agency.

    Your word is good enough for me, Sgt Schultz.

  • ||

    Smooches no-life troll!

    Who loves ya baby!

  • ||

    Forget your pacifier, Officer?

  • ||

    Nope, just spreading the love to the petty hateful trolls. Trying to inject a little sunshine into their sad, petty lives!

  • ||

    Sorry, I think you have us confused with PoliceOne. Nighty night, Occifer.

  • ||

    Nighty night little troll

  • ||

    Nighty night little thug.

  • Calidissident||

    Dunphy, when you call everyone else here a troll, doesn't it imply that you are probably the troll?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    He didn't call everyone else here a troll.

    You have to admit there is an unhealthy obsession about him, and others from H+R past.

  • StinkEye||

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Shouldn't you be humping your Heather McDonald blowup doll, Fosdick?

  • ||

    Smooches to you, no-life troll.

    Remember, we working class heroes are still here to serve you despite your petty hate. We have nothing but love.

    Smooches

  • ||

    Remember, we rich paramedic firefighting physicist casanova Olympic Weightlifting surfing rock star working class heroes are still here to serve you despite your petty hate. We have nothing but love (in the form of clubs, tasers, and bullets; lots and lots of bullets).

    Fixed. We can't have a hero like you denying your true status, Occifer.

  • ||

    Yawn. Weak troll-sauce.

    .0001 on the troll-o-meter.

    Not a casanova, btw. Happily married and faithful.

    Rich? Nope. But I did very well with gold investing since I started when it was about $250 ounce

    Paramedic firefighting? A loooooong time ago. It's a good job

    Physicist? Hardly, although I tutored physics in college.

    But thanks for being so obsessed with other people.

    Remember, we're just working class heroes, admired by the general public and doing a hard job damn well.

    Maybe one day you can join the ranks, although I fear the psychological screening would weed you out

    Sorry about that

  • Andrew S.||

    If we didn't have signed in posting right now, I'd be pretty sure that somebody was impersonating you. You're a complete over-the-top parody of yourself. Glad to see the mask slip off, though.

  • ||

    There's no mask. Just enjoying feeding the trolls and helping to make their sad existence a little brighter.

    If the above posts aren't evidence of petty obsession with me, nothing is.

    If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't be here.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    If the above posts aren't evidence of petty obsession with me dunphy being a good rhetorical punching bag, nothing is.

    FIFY.

  • ||

    This guy holed up in his bunker is a good example of the type of call that SWAT is tailor made for...

    http://www.valleyrecord.com/news/149367855.html

  • Agammamon||

    Nope - you're wrong.

    Get a negotiator to talk him out or wait him out - he's going to run out of food or water soon enough.

    What happened to serve and protect, to innocent until proven guilty. This guy didn't surrender immediately and so the local PD blew the roof off. Probably would've killed him if he hadn't already done the dead himself.

    For feth's sake, we send soldiers into holes like these to capture people during wartime when tossing a grenade in is actually acceptable.

  • Whiggish Tendencies||

    You'll note he didn't have a reply to that, well said bud. All we can hope for is dwindling budgets and blown pensions so worthless people like Duphny have to resort to begging on the streets like a throwaway for the Napoleonic Wars.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Tornado and severe Thunderstorm warnings popping up all around me tonight.
    Stay safe!

  • Xenocles||

    Where are you at?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    south. Manitoba

  • Xenocles||

    Oh. I was going to make a joke about heading to the nearest football stadium because there won't be any touchdowns there, but I guess that doesn't work. Stay safe.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    our team sucks so it works :)

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    On tonight's Top Gear the presenters terrorized the people of Stratford-upon-Avon.

    Hilarious.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    welcome to the bigorati, anon-bot

  • PH2050||

    Damn, what happened to "roll with the punches" or whatever?

  • Sevo||

    The bean footage burned out.

  • ||

    An0nb0t is always like this on cop threads. His ability to be on topic has lead me to suspect an actual human behind the name.

    The most interesting (and worst) thing he's said was "Naked children? Pics or it didn't happen!"

  • PH2050||

    Hahaha holy shit!

  • ||

    As per the Reason commentariot's standards, the actual quote is worse than the paraphrase:

    waaminn| 11.26.12 @ 8:02PM |#

    Whoa, naked kids? Where? Pics or it didnt happen!

    www.Tru-Privacy.tk
  • Rhywun||

    Anonbot is Warty? I knew it.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Remember, we're just working class heroes, admired by the general public and doing a hard job damn well.

    You're a sad, boring, self-obsessed little man.

  • Sevo||

    Dunphy (and other LEOs) simply do not accept that they are the social equivalent of janitors.
    They are paid to be on call and clean up the mess on aisle 6 with limited approval regarding use of force.
    No, Dunphy, it is not your choice. It is society's choice regarding what force you use, you need to ask permission. Especially when you ask someone to open a door.

  • Whiggish Tendencies||

    A knight doesn't ask a peasant! A knight takes what he wants, as his his due. So long as a knight doesn't question his master he may do as he please.

    Spot on though, the are basically hall monitors and retain the same personality traits (flaws) that go along with that, such as authority and hero worship. The same goes for firefighters. You are not all heroes because a building fell on 300 odd men acting selflessly. The vast majority of you are clean up crews. Living in a county of 400k we haven't had a firefighter fatality in generations, yet I am to be convinced these tax leeches are heroic? Also, first officer shot in over 25 years happened a few months back (they've shot a half dozen innocent people since, and murdered a mentally handicapped man in the mean time).

    Construction work is actually dangerous, and at least those guys are leaving something behind, usually worth while (unless it's a public building). Loggers are producing something, along with commercial fisherman. It wouldn't amaze me to find out that statistically long haul driving is more dangerous than either firefighting or police work.

    Everyone needs to start treating all government employees, namely ones police, as lesser beings for a while. Only way to get the point across... that and fight their filthy unions at every turn and push for the elimination of positions.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Melissa Harris Perry Keeps Abortion Debate Classy: Wears Tampon Earrings to Protest Texas Abortion Bill

    “My producer Lorena made for me last week some tampon earrings,” Harris-Perry said as she put on the jewelry. “The Texas state legislature said that you couldn’t bring tampons in, when these women were going to, in fact, stand up for their own reproductive rights.”
  • VG Zaytsev||

    That'll show 'em.

  • Agammamon||

    Why, why would you ban tampons? Are they so massive that being hit with a thrown one is a danger to anything other than your ego?

    On the other hand, MHP is an annoying shit.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    It wasn't just tampons. There was paint, urine, and feces confiscated.

    While Harris Perry smearing herself in piss and shit to show solidarity with the Cause would be amusing, the Jezzies are showing their Frankfurt bona fides by replacing rational discourse with shock value and shouting.

  • Silly ol' Bear||

    I am sorry, but this would never happen in MS. Our cops are generally good folk and almost all of them are good friends. We do have a few idiots, most of of them straight out of school. We generally ignore them or take them to court. Not being from that neighborhood, I can't defend either position but if someone was pointing a gun at me outside my window, it would be the last decision of his life. As i said, cops are generally decent folk, there are a few out there that spoil the barrel.

  • kbolino||

    there are a few out there that spoil the barrel.

    Rot spreads quickly once it takes hold. If you don't purge the rotten apples early and often, then pretty soon you won't have any good apples left.

    Cops ought to be the most vocal in pushing for the swift and severe punishment of their fellows who violate the rights of those they are sworn to serve and protect. They should be eagerly and forthrightly volunteering evidence and testimony to see that the "bad apples" are weeded out promptly and consistently.

    Since that is hardly the case, one can only conclude that the rot has well and truly taken hold, and the "bad apples" are merely the ones who are too stupid or too arrogant to effectively hide their misdeeds.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Double Melissa Harris Perry Whammy: Small Government Policies Led to Detroit Bankruptcy

    “When you have a median home price of $45,000, people are going to go buy those houses sooner or later,” he said, “but you’ve got to have a government to run the place.”

    Ms. Harris-Perry agreed, saying Detroit is indicative of many of the problems facing America’s cities.

    “In the case of Detroit, the reason that the tax base has become so small is because a loss of population, right?” she asked. “So folks move out, they are not there to pay the taxes on the homes, and the kind of deterioration is what you see in the numbers you’ve suggested.”

    “But this lack of tax base is also exactly the thing that many Republicans would impose on us, even when our cities have sufficient populations, even when our communities have sufficient populations,” she continued. “This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown in your bathtub, and it is not a pretty picture.”

    People are leaving Detroit and therefore not paying taxes. The only solution is to pass sensible, common sense legislation tying people to the city of Detroit, find gainful employment working the land, and paying the government it's rightful dues.

    We can call it "serfdom."

  • ||

    Pedro Calmon • 5 hours ago
    Wait...what????

    How can small government and Detroit even go together on the same sentence? 

    The last year Detroit had a Republican mayor was in 1962, when JFK was still alive!!!!!

    Hilarious.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Detroit has 10,000 city employees and 20,000 pensioners in a population of 700,000.

    They could field an army of 30,000 and send them into Windsor, Ontario to plunder and burn down the Chrysler and Ford plants.

  • PH2050||

    I believe someone had posted on another thread a link showing Detroit had way too many government employees compared to cities of similar size.

  • Agammamon||

    Wait, Detroit *already* has a government running the place. ITs that very same government that ran it into the ground and she thinks somehow, this time, it will be different?

    Is this the same thinking that has Dunphy saying that all we need is better training and then SWAT teams will move from liability to benefit?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Emperor Diocletian in a pantsuit.

  • ||

    From Radley Balko's Facebook page:

    You can be a cop who is caught with stolen jewelry and not get charged.

    You can be a cop caught with stolen jewelry who is not only not charged, but is allowed to resign with a sweet $70K/yr "disability" pension.

    But you can't be a cop caught with stolen jewelry who doesn't get charged, is permitted to resign with a $70K/yr "disability" pension, *and* then go on to star in a reality TV show in which you wrestle and chase after monster trucks.

    We have standards!

    Former Hamilton cop who claimed disability but starred in reality TV show loses pension
  • Ted S.||

    Are they going to indict him on fraud charges?

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  • PH2050||

    "The state Police and Firemen’s Retirement System board of trustees voted unanimously on Monday that Derrico’s disability did not exist anymore, and suspended his $5,808.61 monthly payouts."

    This asshole got more per month than military veterans with full medical retirement and missing limbs. I don't know whether to be angry or chastise myself for being a dumbass and not going into "the force".

  • ||

    You didn't think to do both? The lack of a conviction to have your cake AND eat it too, in contrast to this fine (former) officer, shows you don't have the inventive mentality necessary to make it off on the force.

  • PH2050||

    Self-flagellation it is.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Not sure what I just watched, but Nick Offerman as Axe Cop was awesome.

  • ||

    Axe Cop rocks. Nick Offerman rocks. Axe Cop + Nick Offerman = ?

  • ||

    And crime rates are at the lowest they've been in decades, moron.

    A reenactment of Merkin's struggle with the alien invader.

  • Calidissident||

    Somehow, the rest of the country has managed to see a drop in crime and homicide like NYC has without Giuliani and Bloomberg. This is similar to leftists who credit Clinton for the 90s economy

  • Calidissident||

    That's not surprising, considering crime rates were (and are) much higher in NYC than in the country as a whole. LA's murder rate is a fraction of what it was in the late 80s and early 90s and while the LAPD today is far, far from a libertopian police force, it's not as bad as it was in those days.

  • Rhywun||

    Any coincidence that this coincided with an era where we lock up more people than in any country in the world?

    There's no coincidence that everything you cite coincides with an era where we have ramped up the Drug War to epic proportions.

  • ||

    Merkin logic: "The Drug War has decreased crime!"

  • Virginian||

    Japan's population is older for one. Young people commit crime. Young men specifically, and of all races.

    Who the fuck do you think is cooking meth in SW Virginia? It ain't blacks and Mexicans. It's the same people who's daddies and grandaddies and great grandaddies ran shine past the revenuers.

  • Virginian||

    Dude, the US has always been a rough and tumble place. We are made up of people who crossed oceans, left their homelands behind, to cut farms and towns out of a howling wilderness filled with dangerous animals and hostile natives.

    The people who do that, and the children they produce, are going to be more violent then the ones who were too scared to leave. For someone who prides himself on being American, you don't seem to know too much about the place.

  • Irish||

    You have trouble differentiating the results of culture and poverty from genetics.

  • Rhywun||

    Why do you think people think the WOD is necessary?

    Nearly a century of propaganda?

    Because usage of hard drugs correlates highly with general criminality

    Because hard drugs are illegal. QED.

    and antisocial behavior.

    Who cares? If I want to be antisocial, that's my choice.

    How many of those drug dealers currently behind bars would be productive citizens if let out? Probably not too many.

    I don't know, and you don't either. That doesn't negate the fact that "dealing drugs" is a consensual crime.

  • Virginian||

    That's not antisocial behavior, that's criminal activity. Words have meanings.

    The problem with you is that you see robbery rates being high and your solution is...well, you're too coy to say what you really believe, but I'm thinking it involves deporting everyone who's black or Hispanic.

  • Virginian||

    But what if they are a white illegal alien? Should we still deport them?

  • Rhywun||

    Explain to me how any of these things were any worse before the War on Drugs started in earnest. Maybe the solution to such genuine social problems as exists lies somewhere other than Prohibition and jail.

  • Irish||

    Tell me, why does Japan not have these problems?

    Given that Japan murdered tens of millions of Chinese people and spent most of the 1930's and 40's bayoneting children to death, I think we can say with certainty that the answer isn't 'genetics.'

    You sure do seem to ignore the fact that Japan has a history of unbelievable amounts of violence, and it's only recently that this has changed. That implies that the change occurred as a result of cultural shifts and has nothing to do with the genetic reasons that racist scum like you keep blabbering on about.

  • Virginian||

    I mean what could possibly have caused such a dramatic shift in a cultural inclination toward violence? Perhaps some kind of, oh I don't know, massive ass whuppin culminating in not one but two nuclear weapons had a chilling effect on the Japanese people.

  • Irish||

    I mean what could possibly have caused such a dramatic shift in a cultural inclination toward violence? Perhaps some kind of, oh I don't know, massive ass whuppin culminating in not one but two nuclear weapons had a chilling effect on the Japanese people.

    Followed by the total reconstruction of their society and the banning of their military, except for a small self-defense force. Japan wasn't even allowed to have their military leave the islands of Japan for decades after the war.

    Japan had quite possibly the most violent, racist, genocidal society on the planet in the early 1900s. They are on the level of the Nazis but no one really talks about it because Westerners care more about atrocities that occur to Westerners than atrocities carried out against the Chinese or Koreans.

    Using Japan as your example of a 'peaceful' society and claiming this is based on genetics is absurd when you actually consider their history.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Why do so few Japanese youths go into drug dealing as a career choice?

    That would have to do with the near monopoly the Yakuza has on virtually all crime in Japan.

    Jus' sayin'

  • Irish||

    War in the state of nature in a Malthusian society, which the world was in in most of it's history.

    No. This is a lie. Japan's conduct in the early 1900s was NOTABLY terrible, so the claim that they were warlike in the way that the world was for 'most of its history' is ridiculous. Japan was behaving contrary to all modern rules of war, rules that existed before the 1930s. People were shocked by their conduct even then, so your argument yet again proves that you know nothing about history.

    War was necessary for economic reasons, the Japanese didn't want to colonized and they ran out of land.

    Even if I were to buy that war was necessary for 'economic reasons,' and I don't, since that's a fucking stupid argument, impaling children on bayonets, decapitating pregnant women, and forcing American POWs on a death march were not necessary. They did that because they were a barbaric and hyper violent culture in the early 1900s. They were also essentially a death cult centered around the emperor, which certainly didn't help matters.

    The generations that grew up after WW2 tended to focus their energies towards business instead of war, and we now have a peaceful Japanese society. However, your entire argument is based on the belief in genetic coding for violence and non-violence, and Japan's history proves that wrong.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    and we now have a peaceful Japanese society.

    Well that's also due to the fact that the U.S. authored post-war Japanese constitution makes it illegal for them to have a military that is larger than what is deemed necessary for self-defense and that the U.S. taxpayer is doing most of the heavy-lifting to protect them from the Chinese, who would love a chance to avenge Nanking.

  • Calidissident||

    American, tell me how this picture makes you feel

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/7657.....rge570.jpg

  • Whiggish Tendencies||

    Makes me hate this country, I can tell you that.

  • PH2050||

    "Because those pesky things called "constitutional rights" get in the way of policing in a multicultural society"

    No, it's because many humans are ruled by their emotions, the primary one being fear.

    Your posts are rife with the stench of it.

  • Rhywun||

    If you had to live in Oakland, would you still think that police should need a warrant to search someone?

    I have friends in Oakland and their neighborhood is perfectly nice - but you, being your usual collectivist self, of course leap to the judgement that the whole place is exactly the same.

  • StinkEye||

    "..They say that certain infringements on liberty might be justified if the crime rate goes down."

    And I say they personally deserve both the full savage brunt of the hardened criminals, and the malevolent wrath of a brutal and tyrannical government entity, for holding their own dignity... and all of our rights and freedoms so cheap... Fuck them, that's why.

  • Virginian||

    Rhodesia got taken over by a Communist insurgency. The bad things that happened after the coup happened because the new government was a bunch of murderous commies. Murderous commies can be white, black, yellow, or brown. The problem is that they're murderous commies, not their skin color. Algeria, well that was radical Muslims. Which again can be any skin color. The problem is the violent ideology.

    South Africa is a bit of a different case, wouldn't you say?

  • Irish||

    Murderous commies can be white, black, yellow, or brown.

    In fact, the first murderous commies were white, and the grandfather of murderous commies was a German.

    I also like that American uses South Africa as an example. One of the primary reasons whites are having serious trouble 'living at the mercy' of black people is because they severely oppressed black people up until 1994. You can understand the black South Africans being a little miffed.

  • Virginian||

    Freedom and constitutional government are cultural traits, not racial ones.

    Put it this way: Would you rather give dictatorial power to Thomas Sowell, or to Paul Krugman?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I like how he has ignored your question for almost twenty minutes now because he can't bring himself to admit that he doesn't know either of those two men.

  • StinkEye||

    "..Put it this way: Would you rather give dictatorial power to Thomas Sowell, or to Paul Krugman?"

    Trust no-one with such power. The real question is... which one of the two would be more inclined to "accept" said dictatorial powers?

  • Irish||

    Yeah, and wherever Blacks rule they seem to feature either personal dictatorships or communism, and always grinding poverty.

    Clearly this has nothing to do with Europeans creating borders out of whole cloth and forcing groups of people that hated each other into the same country. It also has nothing to do with the brutalization of Africans for centuries by the European powers, culminating in Germany setting up concentration camps in Africa long before they did the same thing in Europe.

    The fucking Belgians had a hyper violent colony in Africa. Even the Belgians were brutalizing, murdering and oppressing Africans, and Belgium is the most white bread country in the world.

    If you honestly believe that those things had nothing to do with Africa's current state, then I don't know what to tell you. You've come to your conclusion based on totally illogical beliefs and the most virulent sort of racism, and no rational argument will change your mind.

  • Irish||

    Irish- It is ironic that you admit it might not be a good idea to force Hutus and Tutsis to live together, but think it's gonna be a paradise when Hutus, Tutsis, and Whites are forced to live together.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA! This is idiotic. The point is, Hutus and Tutsis did not choose to live near each other, they were forced to coexist at the point of European guns. That's not the same thing as choosing to immigrate to another nation. Do you not see the difference between force and choice? Seriously?

    Because Africans were in such a great State before colonization destroyed it all?

    They weren't in great shape because Africa didn't have many of the resources or advantages that Europe or Asia had. The first leaps of European and Asian society were all agricultural and were enabled by domesticable farm livestock. There's a reason all of the first successful societies developed in the fertile crescent, along the Nile River, or on other rivers around the world.

    Subsaharan Africa did not have that advantage. All the successful early states developed along large rivers with fertile land. Most of Africa simply didn't have that option. That's why they were poor before Europeans came, massive social problems in the wake of colonization is why they are poor now.

    Come on, American. Your arguments seem to be getting worse.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    That's why they were poor before Europeans came

    That's not true at all. Venetian merchants marveled at the wealth of the Mali Empire. In the 13th and 14th centuries, Timbuktu was a more developed city than anything in Western Europe. You might have heard of the Great University of Timbuktu? While the average European peasant was content to roll around in his own feces, so witches won't turn him into a newt, the Muslim scholars of Mali were translating works of Plato and Aristotle (which would be unknown to Europeans until the Renaissance) into Arabic, and puzzling over the latest problems of Al-Jabr.

  • Irish||

    I was speaking in generalities. The majority of Africa was clearly much poorer than Europe by the time the Europeans really began showing up. This isn't really true of Northern Africa, which was run by the Fatamid Caliphate, and as you mentioned it isn't really true of Mali either.

    Mali actually proves my point about the rivers though, since according to the page you linked, it grew up around the Niger River.

    American has actually admitted that Northern Africa was culturally and economically successful, but his claim is that this is due to the fact that it's closer to Europe and that's where all the good genes congregated, or something.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Well, if you look at this map of African states before colonization, you can see that there are a shitload of rivers in southern Africa, yet there weren't too many states. I think this is due to the fact that the rivers were in the tropical jungle, which also brings malaria. Many people today can't appreciate how crippling malaria was before pesticides allowed for successful mosquito control and eradication.

  • Irish||

    I think this is due to the fact that the rivers were in the tropical jungle, which also brings malaria.

    That's exactly it. You also would need to clear massive amounts of jungle in order to plant anything and have a functioning agricultural society. Generally what you see in early human history is societies growing up on rivers in plains and areas that are easy to plant food.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Anonymous Coward||

    but think it's gonna be a paradise when Hutus, Tutsis, and Whites are forced to live together.

    Who is talking about importing white people to Rwanda, shithead?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Who is talking about importing white people to Rwanda, shithead?

    Joseph Chamberlain.

    Truth is stranger than fiction.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Those wacky Brits. Trying to reward the Jews for introducing fish and chips to England with land in Africa.

  • Seamus||

    Algeria has been ruled by the FLN pretty much continually since independence. They may have been murderous terrorists (see "The Battle of Algiers"), but they have never been "radical Muslims" (except in the trivial sense that they were radical, and that they were nominally Muslim). In fact, we've been relying on them to keep the *real* radical Muslims, the Islamic Salvation Front, from coming to power.

  • Agammamon||

    Mein Gott - that comes with a 3 MINUTE commercial!

  • Rhywun||

    AdBlock is your friend... I guess, because I didn't get any commercial. Just cute overload that was a perfect antidote to what I just read.

  • ||

    Mine was only 16 seconds.

  • ||

    Usually if the commercial is that long I refresh in the hopes of getting something shorter.

  • PH2050||

    +1 pubic wig

  • ||

    On the internet, no one know you're a dog.

  • ||

    Except the NSA.

  • PH2050||

    And here I thought most dogs were only racist against black people.

    Merkin is a new breed.

  • Virginian||

    Pretty soon he's gonna open his sockpuppet that is totally a different person but happens to agree with him about everything.

  • Agammamon||

    Uh, unless you're a hundred, modern integration and mass immigration *was* normal during your father's time.

  • Rhywun||

    America distrusts science because... those people won't stay in their place?

    W
    T
    F

  • Seamus||

    99% of cops give the other 1% a bad name.

  • ||

    What a piece of work this thug is.

  • SIV||

    Why are commenters engaging with that sockpuppet?
    It's not slappy either. Slappy would know that Algerians are Caucasians.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You got something better to do on a Sunday night?

    And yeah, I don't remember Slappy! as being as verbose as American either.

  • Paul.||

    I agree. We do live in a police state. A fairly prosperous one, but a police state nonetheless.

    It happened while the press wasn't looking.

  • sasob||

    That's because the press was looking the other way - and got everyone else to look the other way as well.

  • Tamfang||

    The couple's mistake was believing that real cops wouldn't point guns at them and shout abuse. Now that their story has been publicized, other people should be less likely to make the same mistake in future, making the Marshal's job easier. Why isn't he pleased?

  • Bgoptmst||

    You know this is a real problem when the officer didn't even try to cover up what he did. Instead of a "no comment," he tells a reporter "so what?"

    We have a term in the military for what is happening to law enforcement in the US: mission creep. And it is mission creep paid for by you and me, so.someone in DC can justify his job.

  • Free Society||

    Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, “She sure shouldn't be going to the press.”

    Cops can point a gun at you on whim, a hunch, or maybe just because it's a Tuesday. But if you point a gun at a thug with a badge breaking into your house, you deserve to die. Know your place you filthy citizens.

  • croaker||

    Speaking of paranoid prepper novels, it is my fervent wish that Wiggins be found dead in a hotel room, wrists and ankles tied to the bed, surrounded by gay sex toys, with the semen of six different men oozing from his orifices.

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