Neighborhood Man Saves Kidnapped, Captive Women; Police Fight War on Drugs

not a copWEWSTVThree women who were kidnapped and held in captivity for nearly a decade in Cleveland were finally rescued after a neighbor, Charles Ramsey, saw one of the women trying to escape and went to the porch. Ramsey says the woman, Amanda Berry, asked him for help and figuring it was some kind of “domestic dispute,” he helped. Police found two other women imprisoned in the home and arrested three brothers, since charging one, Ariel Castro, with kidnapping and rape.  “I knew something was wrong when a little pretty white girl ran into a black man’s arms,” Ramsey told a reporter in an interview that’s gone viral. Ramsey, who has a history of domestic violence he says helped him grow into a better person, was not the first person to see something strange at the house, just the first one who went and did something about it. USA Today reports that several neighbors said they called police about the Castro home, the windows of which were covered with plastic, several times; including once after a girl said she saw a naked woman on her hands and knees in the backyard and another after someone heard banging at the doors from inside the home. Police acknowledge coming to the home twice, but the police chief says he’s “absolutely sure” police did everything they could to find the women.

Faced with an $8 million deficit at the start of this year, the mayor of Cleveland warned budget cuts would eliminate the narcotics unit. What’s that unit done in the last few years? They found a warehouse full of marijuana plants last November and in June an FBI-coordinated drug raid involved 350 law enforcement officials and 70 arrests. There was a bust of a prescription drug ring last March. Cleveland police made their biggest drug bust in history in February 2009, seizing 3000 pounds of marijuana and $386,000 in cash and making 8 arrests. They seized 700 pounds the February before that and in 2007 busted a six-year veteran of the police department trafficking cocaine from Mexico.

At the crux of the drug war is the victimless crime of narcotics possession and use (and the sales that make that voluntary possession and use possible, tied to which are the weapons needed because of the business’ illegal status). Billions have been spent on law enforcement around the country to combat an essentially private, voluntary choice. Alternet ran a piece this morning explaining some of the perverse benefits for police to going after drug crimes instead of kidnapping, rape and slavery. The rescue of three women by a passer-by from a home police had been alerted to multiple times (and which was apparently occupied by the father of one of the girl’s self-described “best friends”), coupled with incidents like the suspected Boston bomber being spotted not by a massive manhunt but by a homeowner having a cigarette in his backyard and the thwarting of the Times Square bombing not by the heavily-armed and stationary police officers in the area but by local vendors going about their business suggests it’s not money or even manpower but good, alert police work that can solve and stop crimes. Instead, fueled by the militarization of police and the war on drugs, the beat cop’s disappearing while the war on what goes in your body continues, violently.

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  • ||

    Ramsey says it's a dead giveaway.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Further proof demonstrating Robert Downey, Jr.'s genius in Tropic Thunder?

  • ||

    That you never go FULL RETARD?

    Simple Jack.

  • Caleb Turberville||

  • $park¥||

    Asshole, I'm sending the counterterrorism unit to Seattle first.

  • cw||

    I heard Anderson Cooper asked Ramsey if he should receive a reward for finding those girls. He told him they should get the money since he "gets a paycheck."

    Props.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Hopefully McDonalds will give him a $1000 gift certificate or something. He gave them at least that in free advertising.

  • Pro Libertate||

    What? No, they should give him free McDonald's for life.

  • deified||

    Free McDonald's for life is a death-trap. That shit is poison.

    As for me, Fuddrucker's.

  • Pro Libertate||

    You didn't rescue those girls. He wants McDonald's, by God, Cleveland owes him some fucking McDonald's.

  • Invisible Finger||

    I blame the neighbors who told the police "something strange was going on in the house" instead of the more appropriate "drug selling is going on in the house". Police, like everyone else, only respond to selfish incentives.

  • ||

    That's probably a great tip in general if you want to get the cops to show up ASAP.

  • ||

    Trying to make a bust on prescription drug dealing was what led to the arrest and prosecution of that abortion doctor after decades of being overlooked.

  • ||

    Not only show up, but bust down doors without a warrant. Although the three women probably would have been killed by the cops just for being in the house.

  • Almanian!||

    So you're saying those women are dogs?

    LOOKIST!

  • ||

    No, the cops would have shot any dogs present in addition to the women.

  • Almanian!||

    So cops are not Specieist. I guess that one goes in the "Plus" column for them.

  • ||

    It would go something like this, with regards to the women:

    Cop: "Get on the ground! NOW!"
    Women: "We're chained to the wall, you idiot!"
    Cop: "What did you just call me?!?!?!"

    *Sound of 100s of gunshots*

  • Almanian!||

    It's like you're THERE, KK, inside the cops' minds!!!

    That must be a scary place.

  • Almanian!||

    Oh, PS - one suggested edit to your outstanding post:

    *Sound of 100s of gunshots...with approximately 7% hitting the intended target, and at least 50% creating collateral damage*

    hth

    /Bigorati

  • ||

    "I've seen this before, I think they're naked cause they were cutting the drugs and if they had pockets they'd steal some!"

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Cop to Review Board:

    "The naked, chained-up woman was reaching in her waistband for what I thought was an AK-47 and I felt my life was in danger. My service weapon discharged in the course of duty."

  • Invisible Finger||

    If they're on all fours, should a cop take a chance it might NOT be a dog??

  • Almanian!||

    "it was pretty dark in there, and she was moving so fast...officer safety. procedures were followed. IMHO it was a good shoot. hth"

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    ARF!

  • Pro Libertate||

    "Hey, is this the police? Yeah, listen, I think I saw a female cop being abused next door."

  • ||

    A female cop that lived on my street in Manhattan got robbed and beaten up by the robbers. The place was swarming with cops, to the point where they got inside my building and were knocking on every door. It was so pleasant having just got home from a racquetball game to have some pig knock on my door and ask me questions about my whereabouts as if I were a criminal. No, you may not come in.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Saying you saw a female cop with a leash around her neck works on so many levels:

    1) Cop being abused. That's worse than treason.
    2) Female cop. Adds to number one in that male protective thingee.
    3) It will turn on the male cops, who will rush to see this exciting event.

    I'm sure there are more. Tell them you think you saw a female cop.

  • ||

    "Yes, hello, police? I think I saw Poppy Montgomery in a dog collar naked on all fours. You heard me."

  • Pro Libertate||

    Yes, I think that would work, too.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    ARF!

  • ||

    I'm not so sure about that. See: Donna Watts, FL State Trooper.

    Of course, it was the po-po threatening and abusing one of their own, so....

  • Pro Libertate||

    Come, let us be reasonable. That is completely different.

  • Zeb||

    That can't be. I'm told that there's no special treatment for cops.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It's not special treatment per se. See, cops have to protect cops because replacing cops is difficult and cops protect society so we need cops or we'll all die because of the lack of cops. So, yes, cops must be saved and avenged first, in order to protect the people.

  • CE||

    Apparently the police deny having any records of being contacted about the women. One of the neighbors who said she called the police admitted later she had called her mom, and her mom didn't do anything. Another neighbor said the police didn't believe them when they called, and didn't send anyone.

    The visits to the house were for other issues: investigating the homeowner/kidnapper for leaving a kid unattended on the school bus he drove, and for a noise complaint.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Shhhhh! hey, get rid of all of those old 911 tapes!

  • Pro Libertate||

    Man, these meddling private citizens, finding bombers and missing girls--someone needs to put a stop to this.

  • CE||

    Start calling police, paramedics and firemen what they really are: second responders.

    We're the first responders.

  • thom||

    Thanks for making this point.

    Everybody knows that when you identify a threat to yourself or others, the right thing to do is call the police and let the trained professionals handle it.

  • ||

    Hear here

  • Almanian!||

    what? where?

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Can you imagine being a decade behind the rest of the world? Just no one tell them how The Wire ended, okay?

  • robc||

    Maybe they left a tv on for them or something.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    That's considerate. Perhaps a mitigating circumstance to consider when deliberating punishment?

  • Brandon||

    Could we hold off on telling them about the whole Obama thing? They might want to go back to the house when they hear about all of that.

  • NeonCat||

    From the Rumford Meteor:

    Three Women, Freed After Being Held As Sex Slaves For A Decade In A Basement In Cleveland, Are Immediately Fined For Not Having Health Insurance

    http://rumfordmeteor.com/?p=10330

  • Brandybuck||

    On the plus side they managed to completely miss out on Windows Vista.

  • Tejicano||

    Hell, I stopped watching TV in 1988. Half the time when you guys mention a TV show title I don't know if it is a movie, a mini-series, or a regular program.

  • Zeb||

    For a minute I was afraid this was going to say that Ramsey had been arrested for drug possession or something.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Yes, along with the free McDonald's for life, he should also get a free drug card from the cops.

  • some guy||

    He just made them look bad in front of the world. He isn't going to get anything from the cops except extra scrutiny.

  • Pro Libertate||

    No doubt. I'm saying what he should get, not what he's gonna get.

  • thom||

    I give it a week before they find something to charge him with.

  • Almanian!||

    ditto

  • Hugh Akston||

    Alternet ran a piece this morning explaining some of the perverse benefits for police to going after drug crimes instead of kidnapping, rape and slavery.

    I'm more concerned about how to fund grammar police units to go after scofflaws who refuse to use serial commas.

  • robc||

    Its the Oxford comma so it probably falls under international law.

  • SugarFree||

    The Oxford Comma is now only to be used when the list would be otherwise unclear without it.

    "We serve waffles, pancakes, bacon and eggs."

    "We serve waffles, pancakes, bacon, and eggs."

  • Hugh Akston||

    You're one of them!

  • Cliché Bandit||

    dead to me...How am I to enjoy your particular for of art when you excise commas willy nilly?

  • mr simple||

    My favorite:

    "I'd like to thank my father, God, and my mother."

  • Pro Libertate||

    I do my part, adding in the serial comma in contracts. I have a little rule--if they consistently don't use the serial comma, then I'll allow it. That's NEVER HAPPENED.

  • Raston Bot||

    Click the alter piece and you get this double-negative gem:

    Without proof of the 911 calls, it is hard to say definitively that the Cleveland Police Department failed to properly follow up on tips (and it is assuring the public that it did all it could to find the young women). If the neighbors aren’t making it up, which seems unlikely, there is some explaining to do.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Citizens can't be trusted.

  • ||

    They can't even be trusted to bring up ACTUAL double-negatives! H&R needs a governmental comment panel for this sort of thing.

  • ||

    Oh wait, now I see. Ugh, nevermind. I'm still all for that panel though. This close commenting call just shows how we're only one step away from total chaos without government overcite.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    overcite? Like jaywalking AND disorderly conduct?

  • ||

    The phone records for those citizens can probably be obtained that would show calls to 911. It's not that hard to prove/disprove.

    I have no reason to believe the police on this. They have proved themselves unworthy of trust on a daily basis in just about every city and town in the U.S.

  • Zeb||

    That's pretty bad. Are they trying to say that it is unlikely that the neighbors are making it up, or the opposite?

  • Dweebston||

    Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma?

  • ||

    Amen Dweeb....

  • Agammamon||

    That and constructing a sentence that says the that the only reason police don't kidnap, rape, or enslave is that they're going after drug crimes.

  • Ted S.||

    Ed obviously doesn't know the totality of the fact pattern. He's just a bigorati.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    afatfpat the above is correct, i killed a bear with my wang once, hth

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    "I knew something was wrong when a little pretty white girl ran into a black man’s arms,"

    I see it all the time.

  • robc||

    If American were here, he would say that is proof that something was wrong.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    +1

  • ||

    DEAD GIVEAWAY

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    deaaaddddd giveaway

  • deified||

    The Alternet article mentioned in this blog post is excellent. Basically, federal grants have made it more profitable for local PDs to search for drugs than to chase criminals. Thank you, Federal Grants-in-Aid!

    We need a little more Charles Ramsey up in this bitch.

  • Pro Libertate||

    And to spend time and resources on handing out parking and speeding tickets.

  • deified||

    Wait, I don't follow. Federal grants also incentivize the issuance of parking/speeding tickets?

    Or are you saying that that's what WOULD happen with less federal aid?

    Or that that's what SHOULD happen in a post-WOD future?

    I am so confused.

  • Pro Libertate||

    No. I meant they get their revenues from the feds for certain things, and they get revenues from traffic copping. The latter are direct, not federal. And they have little to do with actually protecting people from, you know, actual crime.

  • wwhorton||

    Hey, pal, in case you haven't heard, there's a war on. The cops don't have time to run around responding to every little kidnapping, rape, or murder when there are dime bags to be confiscated.

  • deified||

    Naturally, Slate is troubled. What a piece-of-shit webzine they are.

  • deified||

  • hotsy totsy||

    Charles Ramsey doesn't fit Slate's own stereotype of Black. Especially since his own common sense easily trumps the usual official "lines". He comes across as genuine and it contrasts with their pretentiousness.

  • ||

    Of course they are. If they can't spin a media event to focus on their personal obsessive hobbyhorses, what can they do?

  • ||

    I realized yesterday why I love Charles Ramsey so much: because he's Jim.

  • ||

    That's Nigger Jim to you.

  • ||

    HE IS NEVER CALLED NIGGER JIM ANYWHERE GODDAMMIT MOTHERFUCKER STUPID COCKSUCKER

  • Pro Libertate||

    I just about had a stroke the first time I heard one of the best American novels ever written called racist. It's almost exactly the opposite.

  • ||

    It has "nigger" in it, and it was written by a white guy. What more do you need?

  • Pro Libertate||

    You can't read that book and come out thinking it's remotely racist. Unless maybe you don't know English. Then I guess you could if it were the illustrated version.

  • Zeb||

    Some people seem unable to comprehend that an author could write a racist character without being racist himself. If any quote from the book sounds racist, then the book must be racist.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Some people seem unable to comprehend that an author could write a racist character without being racist himself. If any quote from the book sounds racist, then the book must be racist.

    I love that line of thinking. It proves that you have to be a racist to identify racism.

  • Tonio||

    You presume that the people calling it racist had actually, like, read the book.

  • Pro Libertate||

    That's what I was getting at--pretty much couldn't have read it and said that honestly.

  • Zeb||

    Actually, I'm more inclined to think that they read a few passages that used the word "nigger" and decided it was racist based on that.

  • Brett L||

    I just about had a stroke the first time I heard one of the best American novels ever written called racist. It's almost exactly the opposite.

    Philip Jose Farmer has his Sam Clemens character nearly do the same in Riverworld, which is the worst waste of a great concept ever committed to paper.

  • ||

    Exactly. Can't I imply you're a racist without you getting all worked up? Jeez, you're so sensitive, just like ProL when he has his period.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Naturally, I'm prejudiced against you. If a law were passed making you sit in the back of a bus and forcing you to use inferior services, just for you, I'd pronounce it constitutional and morally correct.

  • ||

    Jesus. I lynch one little black guy, one fucking time, and rich fucking New York Jews like you are calling me a racist for the rest of my life. This is bullshit.

  • ||

    Oy vey, why do you have to hate the shvartzes so much?

  • Hugh Akston||

    It's not like you lynched him because he was black.

  • ||

    Mr. Garrison: How about tonight, we sneak up to one of their houses, and right on their lawn we'll set fire to a big lowercase "t"!
    Jimbo: Lowercase "t"?
    Mr. Garrison: Yeah, for "time to leave"!

  • Almanian!||

    I. Hate. Those. Richers.

  • ||

    Mrs. Broflowski: Mr. Garrison, you're a Clan member?

    Mr. Garrison: No no, Mr. Hat is.

    Mr. Hat: White power! White power!

    Mr. Garrison: You are such a racist bastard, Mr. Hat.

  • ||

    HE IS NEVER CALLED NIGGER JIM ANYWHERE GODDAMMIT MOTHERFUCKER STUPID COCKSUCKER

    Ah, so you have the Robotic Edition as well, I see.

  • Brandon||

    Slate: Everything is racist.

  • wwhorton||

    The guy is a real, honest-to-god hero, unlike the worthless cops who never responded to a single call on that house. He's also a trip, and says some funny shit. I don't think the one takes away from the other. I do know I'd rather have Charles Ramsey live next door to me than all of the Cleveland PD.

  • ||

    Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't leave anything valuable out in my yard or anything, but, uh...yeah.

  • ||

    Well, shit - I wouldn't do that anywhere in the Cleveland metro, even Bay Village.

  • ||

    I walked down to Seymour yesterday. Not surprisingly, the police had it blocked off, but there appeared to be quite a media circus going on. I don't have a point, it's just fucking weird that this is within easy walking distance of me.

    Also, eating at the McDonald's on Clark helps you fight crime.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Why do the cops have it blocked off?

  • ||

    Presumably to keep the sightseers out so it doesn't get too congested while they're working in the house. Or maybe just to keep ugly people like me out of the cameras.

  • Pro Libertate||

    McDonald's should sue, calling it a taking, because they'd be making a killing at that location.

  • ||

    Speaking of takings, why do city marathons not qualify as illegitimate takings since they close off sections of private residences and businesses?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Because.

  • Generic Stranger||

    FY,TW

  • Invisible Finger||

    Not sure about the residences, but usually it's the Chamber Of Commerce that promotes such events. I know not every business is a member of the chamber, but then again they usually run these things on the slow days.

  • Tonio||

    Every day is a busy day for someone. I have never understood why these people have to shut down traffic for their exercise.

  • Tonio||

    Why, because they generate money for businesses, who pay taxes, thus reducing the tax burden for everyone! Duh.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Also, I don't think any of the businesses on the Boston Marathon route are ever closed. Maybe near the starting line. The one time I was dragged to the race, the businesses were open and didn't seem to be suffering low customer turnout.

  • Tonio||

    The businesses generally stay open. Many, particularly restaurants, do get a lot of business those days. Jewelry stores not so much.

    For me, the big issue is that public roads are closed and citizens can't go about their normal business. I want to be compensated.

  • T||

    The roads are just being used by a different segment of teh public. As long as the public is using the roads, they're good. The roads are for the public in general, not any particular member in specific, just like police protection.

  • Tonio||

    Roads are designed for vehicular traffic, not pedestrian traffic.

    The number of people-miles consumed by marathoners during a marathon

    Many of the marathoners are out-of-towners, so not the owners of those roads.

    Also, the road closures don't just close the roads on which the race is run, but also prevent people from crossing the race course.

    Nice try, though.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Roads are designed for vehicular traffic, not pedestrian traffic.

    Not in Boston.

  • sarcasmic||

    Cops kill two horses, send owner the bill.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/.....te-patrol/

  • SugarFree||

    Disdanewsh • 5 minutes ago −
    Horses on the interstate?...Sorry, but too much risk of a fatal accident. Good call by the cops when seconds count. Too bad for the horse owner..sad...but I wouldn't second guess this one.

    slurp slurp slurp

  • ||

    Don't you want order?????

    ROMNEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT TOO

  • sarcasmic||

    Most of the comments were fairly sane. Probably because it's linked to Drudge.

  • mr lizard||

    I didn't read the words: dog, furtive movement, discharged 4782 rounds, procedures were followed, typo on the warrant, reliable informant, or dog so quit your whining proles and give us more money.

  • db||

    The incentives are clear. There's no asset forfeiture income for the PD in searching for a kidnap victim, or solving a burglary.

  • CE||

    Speaking of which, how about them solving that 50 million dollar diamond heist in Belgium? Why didn't we hear about that here? Because the crooks dressed up like cops to rob the plane?

  • ||

  • sarcasmic||

    That's a riot.

  • $park¥||

    Best use of 911 ever. "She said she been kidnapped. She need everythang, put yourself in her shoes."

  • Libertymike||

    In the summer of '75(no, not Brenda and Eddie), my brother and I were forced to stay at our grandmother's house for a week and one day we were watching The Price is Right with nana.

    An African American woman was summonsed to "Come on Down!" and she proceeded to do a little dance on her way down. Bob Barker told her "that was some dance" and she responded, "Its the Hustle" to which the silver maned host asked, "what is the Hustle"? "Can you do it again?"

    Keep in mind this was the summer of 1975 when The Hustle was all the rage and was competing with Love Will Keep us Together for top song of the summer.

    The Slaties would probably view that as racist.

  • Almanian!||

    The Slaties would probably view that as racist

    Well - YEAH! Because it IS racist! Geez...

    /Slateorati

  • Almanian!||

    Yep - I love Mr. Ramsey (no homo).

    I hope he gets something positive out of his fifteen minutes. I mean more longlasting than the fifteen minutes. He's a good man.

  • Malcolm Kyle||

    PROHIBITION IS A DIRECT THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY:

    "The war on drugs has also generated indirect costs that many researchers contend have undermined public safety. The federal government has prioritized spending and grants for drug task forces and widespread drug interdiction efforts that often target low-level drug dealing. These highly organized and coordinated efforts have been very labor intensive for local law enforcement agencies with some unanticipated consequences for investigation of other crimes. The focus on drugs is believed to have redirected law enforcement resources that have resulted in more drunk driving, and decreased investigation and enforcement of violent crime laws. In Illinois, a 47% increase in drug arrests corresponded with a 22% decrease in arrests for drunk driving. Florida researchers have similarly linked the focus on low level drug arrests with an increase in the serious crime index."

    –Drug Policy, Criminal Justice and Mass Imprisonment, by Bryan Stevenson

    http://www.globalcommissionond.....venson.pdf

  • ||

    From the autotune the news guys, .

  • ||

    Whoa, I fucked that up good. It's Ron Paul singing about the WOD.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "the beat cop’s disappearing"

    What?! I see plenty of cops beating people in these here pages....wait, what?

  • $park¥||

    Why is this local story getting so much national attention?

  • ||

    Are you joking?

  • Brett L||

    Guys, turn on your sarcasmeters. Remember the excuse for not covering the Kermit Gosnell case?

  • ||

    NO.

  • $park¥||

    To be honest, when I first heard this story being reported I was pretty sure it meant never seeing you post here again.

  • ||

    +5-10 years

  • ||

    DEAD GIVEAWAY.

  • Almanian!||

    What difference - at this point - does it make?

  • ||

    Sparky, you know as well as the rest of us that as long as Warty still has at least one host body left, he'll survive.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    Warty is Azazel. Take him to a forest and make sure there are no kitties or other people and kill him and yourself...or nuke from orbit, only way etc.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'm trying to figure out what aspect of this story doesn't deserve national attention.

  • CE||

    Cops arresting the kidnappers brothers, and the national media calling them kidnappers and rapists, and the cops then not charging them the next day after talking to the victims and finding out it was only the one guy?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    What, at this point, does it matter?

  • Invisible Finger||

    "Things Hilary Clinton Would Say" for $2000, Alex.

  • ||

    The safety implications of Burger King vs. McDonalds have clear national implications.

  • ||

    Not to mention the possible need for rape dungeon regulation. Did he have a dungeon? Or was this just the menace of unused rooms? No single person needs four bedrooms in his house.

  • $park¥||

    And why did he have plastic on the windows? Clearly there is now a need to inspect every house with plastic on the windows.

  • ||

    No, the plastic was clearly part of his pot greenhouse activities. They don't care about that.

  • CE||

    I thought Homeland Security recommended plastic and duct tape, in case of poison gas attack?

  • ||

    That's true. What did he know and when did he know it?!

  • db||

    No, they'll just require that all rape dungeons be permitted and subject to such common sense regulations as are common and sensical. For instance, rape dungeons shall be lit to a standard of an incident luminance of no less than 300 cd/m^2, provided with soft rubber bumpers on all edges of furniture with an angle of less than 121.5 degrees, and with an ambient sound pressure level during blood chilling screams of less than 85dB, measured at 1meter from the ungagged mouth of the torture subject.

  • Invisible Finger||

    It's getting national attention because the police found persons who were missing for TEN YEARS! The police are genius heroes!!!!

  • Tonio||

    But you know what the responses will be:

    1) The courts forbid us from doing warrantless forcible entry.

    2) Sure, we miss a few, but think of how much worse things would be if you didn't have us.

    3) FYTW

  • Deputy Van Halen||

    Or maybe the police could have located those women had the home owner been suspected of drug possession, or perhaps someone facing a drug charge might have ratted out the home owner. This is more or less the same that happened to the mafia (just ask Henry Hill's bosses).

    To be clear, this isn't an endorsement one way or the other about the merits of drug prohibition. However, these arguments that we're not getting the "real" or dangerous criminals because of prohibition is rather simplistic, and actually might be wrong.

  • CE||

    Oh, there are "real" criminals selling drugs, but the point is that there wouldn't be nearly as many if drugs were legal. And police could focus on solving actual crimes.

  • Deputy Van Halen||

    CE: I get your point, although, with all things "social sciences", you never really know. I'm generally of the view that if you're a violent thug, you'll find some way to act on it. Canada and much of Western Europe prohibit drugs just the same as the US does, yet murder rates are much lower. (And to be clear, I don't think gun control factors into the equation all that much one way or the other).

  • Tonio||

    To call an argument simplistic is often a fancy way of saying that you know you have no way of rebutting the argument as stated. When the argument is expanded beyond it's necessary length you can always find something to nitpick, some crevice, something to attack the argument.

    Nice try.

  • sarcasmic||

    As someone who has been mugged, robbed and burglarized, I can tell you that the cops don't give a shit about crimes with victims.

    They only care when they have the opportunity to confiscate steal shit from people or issue fines extort money.

  • sarcasmic||

    That was supposed to be a reply to DVH.

  • Deputy Van Halen||

    Actually, I gave a real world example of drug prohibition leading to the arrest and conviction of people we could all consider "real" criminals. That's a rebuttal.

    But more to the point, I'm not the one making a connection between drug prohibition and the failure to catch these perpetrators sooner. The writer actually presents no evidence to the contrary other than to say that cops were spending too much time devoted to drug prohibition enforcement. That's a simplistic argument, and one that isn't supported by anything concrete. If you're all in favor of them though, whatever floats your boat.

  • ||

    Ramsey didn't make the cops look bad. Ramsey did what good people do - get involved when they see people who need help. That's how many, if not crimes we get involved in investigating start - because somebody gets involved and calls the police. Good for him, he's awesome.

    Cleveland PD had no way to magick themselves into that house and search for kidnap victims, and of course if they had used some specious pretext to enter the house and search we would be calling them out for 4th amendment violations. Granted, if there was a call for a DV call there, that's an excellent way for the cops to get inside the house - exigency - one I have to deal with constantly - DV call = enter the house whether they want to allow entry or not.

    The idea that the beat cop is disappearing is wrong. Its exactly the opposite. Many agencies have embraced community policing and assigned foot-patrol and storefront officers who don't do "reactive" policing and respond to 911 calls, but instead work longterm with the community to solve problems on their beat - they go to community meetings (where like it or not, the top complaints are usually about drug use/drugs houses/drug dealing - people want these laws enforced), etc. and they know the local businesses, people, and the players on the street.

    The beat cop is alive and well.

  • Tonio||

    DV? Disabled Veteran?

    But let's say they had responded to those earlier calls and searched the house. Sure, they'd have had a harder time making a case against Arias, but the victims would have been freed earlier. Which is the greater good?

    This is not a call for suspending the 4A.

  • ||

    Domestic violence.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Cleveland PD had no way to magick themselves into that house and search for kidnap victims, and of course if they had used some specious pretext to enter the house and search we would be calling them out for 4th amendment violations.

    2012-13 Reason can't make up it's goddam mind about its principles, assuming it has any beyond advancing TEAM NOT A TEAM.

    Yesterday they were complaining about cops chasing someone for traffic violations. Since they also oppose camera enforcement, I'm not sure how they expect the police to enforce traffic laws.

  • Tonio||

    Someone needs a juice box.

  • db||

    A high speed chase involving the death of the quarry. Because he got out of his car and the cop ran him over. Please, Tulpa, please tell me you aren't getting this truly warped that you will leave out important details like cops running over a man because they chased him for not wearing a fucking seatbelt. Please, because I honestly used to have some respect for you, and have defended you here before.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Ramsey didn't make the cops look bad.

    Absolutely correct.


    The police make the cops looks bad.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    If we had the Tulpa secure storage legislation, and these creeps had a semiauto rifle, they would have been caught within a year.

  • db||

    What? Are you saying you support Federal inspection of homes to verify compliance?

  • ||

    Yes, he does.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    CLEVELAND STRONG: Donate now, all proceeds will go to the heroic POLICE OFFICERS that went into HARM'S WAY to rescue the uh,........

  • Paul Pot||

    The most important aid to police work is community co-operation.
    People who use drugs have to think twice about giving police information as the police have a reputation for searching people who report crime.
    I was once searched after I reported an offence.
    When the drug war ends, crime and violence will significantly decrease and we will get our community back.

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