Curious About Homeland Security's Massive Ammo Buys? So is the Government Accountability Office

The Department of Homeland Security has raised eyebrows with what was first reported as plans to buy 1.6 billion rounds of ammo over the next few years---enough for five shots in the dome of each and every American--but which the agency now claims is the far more reasonable (so they seem to think) 750 million rounds.

tricklePhoto credit: Tigresblanco / Foter.com / CC BY-NC-ND

Amongst the eyebrows raised are those of the Government Accountability Office, which is, according to U.S. News and World Report, planning to look into this matter:

The Government Accountability Office tells Whispers it is now investigating large ammunition purchases made by the Department of Homeland Security. Chuck Young, a spokesman for GAO, says the investigation of the purchases is "just getting underway."

The congressional investigative agency is jumping into the fray just as legislation was introduced in both the Senate and the House to restrict the purchase of ammo by some government agencies (except the Department of Defense). The AMMO Act, introduced Friday, would prevent agencies from buying more ammunition if "stockpiles" are greater than what they were in previous administrations.

Why do they need so much goddamned firepower? It's all about extensive training, says Homeland Security's Humberto Medina to a House Oversight Committee hearing. Extensive, extensive training. "They have to be proficient at a very high level," says Medina.

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  • The Late P Brooks||

    Tulpa will be scowling balefully down from his cross momentarily.

  • tarran||

    Stop giving the shit-weasel your attention!

    Seriously. It's like giving crack to an incontinent parrot.

  • ||

    Let's not forget that a bunch of NutraSweet's and my comments insulting Tulpa were deleted from the Levy gun control thread last night. One would think the only reason that would happen would be Tulpy-Poo being a whiny little bitch about them to reason. What a little pussy.

  • tarran||

    It's your own damn fault!!!

    I am utterly unsympathetic that your pointless 'experiment', worthy of Josef Mengele himself, didn't pan out the way you wanted.

    You thought you were tormenting him? Hell no, he lives for that stuff. The rest of us, however, *were* suffering reading that shit.

  • ||

    Then my evil plan worked, because my true intention was to torture you.

  • tarran||

    So it was a very circuitous evil plan?

  • Doctor Whom||

    Epi had a cunning plan, my lord.

  • ||

    Very Barney Stinson of you!

  • AuH20||

    A very clever ruse!

  • Paul.||

    I deleted them.

  • ||

    That's why nobody can buy any fricken ammo anymore!

    BTW, my 350 rds of 45 long colt arrived last week. I think about 5-6 days from order to arrival. SGAmmo.com was the site, link provided by Grey Ghost.

  • John||

    It is a combination of three things. This is definitely part of it. In addition to this, people are panic buying and stockpiling the stuff, which then becomes a self reinforcing cycle as people stock pile more creating a worse shortage causing people to stockpile more. The third reason is the ammunition industry apparently plans their material buys years in advance. So they can't easily increase production to deal with a spike in demand.

    As far as the DHS buy goes, I would advise following the money. How is this ammunition being purchased from, at what price and who owns the companies that are selling it? The answers to those questions will more than likely lead to a set of Obama cronies using this as a way to further loot the treasury.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It would be interesting to trade ammo futures on the commodities market.

  • Jon Lester||

    One more reason to choose an AK over an AR. The global supply of 7.62x39 ammo won't be running out anytime soon.

  • IceTrey||

    @Jon Lester

    You can have an AR that shoots 7.62.

  • Jon Lester||

    You're right, and I've seen AK's made for 5.52.

  • Duke||

    True, but they're not as reliable, or so people say. I have an AR in 556 and an AK in 762. That way I'm covered. I waslucky to find about 500 rds for both but cannot find any more.

  • ||

    ARs are gas operated, but have no piston. The gas blows directly on the bolt face. This gums up the bolt and gets it red fucking hot in no time. With 50 rapid shots you can start cooking off rounds easily.

    The AKs have a robust piston system. I like the AKs better, but the SKS is much more accurate than the AK.

    A mini-30 is a good choice also. Plenty of 7.62 x 39 around.

  • Duke||

    You can get a gas piston upper for your AR, but they are expensive. They are more reliable than the original gas impingement system.

  • db||

    Technically in an AR, the gas does not impinge on the bolt face. It expands in a space within the bolt carrier/bolt assembly which forces the carrier backward, unlocking and then cycling the bolt.

    I have fired multiple mag dumps through a full auto AR platform rifle over 200 rounds and have never seen a round cook off. It can certainly happen, but it takes far moee than 50 rounds. When it does happen it is because the chamber, not the bolt face, is very hot. In the AR, it is possible for the gas to heat the bolt face directly but the cook off risk comes mainly from the heat in the chamber.

  • ||

    I hadnt thought of that, but you are probably right.

  • Spoonman.||

    John's Razor: the hypothesis requiring only corruption should be selected.

  • Brett L||

    I feel like this should be added to the Iron Laws.

  • Fluffy||

    It doesn't even have to be Presidential-level cronies doing the stealing.

    This could be plain old school Defense Department procurement stealing branching out and taking over the Homeland Security agencies.

    The thing about these procurements is that they have to include a certain number of "small business" set asides, "minority-owned" set asides, "woman-owned" set asides, "veteran-owned" and "service-disabled-veteran-owned" set asides, etc.

    So the country is littered with shell companies with nominal owners who fit into these groups. Those companies put up really primitive catalog websites and proclaim themselves to be suppliers. All they are doing is taking somebody else's product and slapping a "favored group" premium on top of the price. They then get the set asides.

    I bet a bunch of these companies got together, took up an intermediary position in the ammo secondary market, and got DHS' component agencies to order a bunch of ammo.

  • John||

    You know the game fluffy. Some pro gun sites did some investigation of the publicly released government contract information on these buys. And they found every single one of the companies that won the bids to be companies that had recently come into existence and seemed to have no other purpose in life beyond winning this contract.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Ah, Fluffy, I see you are familiar with Cook County/Chicago contracting practices. There is good money to be had fronting the Holy Grail of Status - the Minority/Woman Owned Business!

  • ||

    I had to switch to a new company last year (same contract), because the re-bid went out as "minority owned small business". The company I was working for did not have that status, so even though we were the incumbent and doing an amazing job, 51% of the contract had to go to another company. The new company is fucking cheap and cares much more about the "community" than it does its own employees (they have monthly events at various food banks, but won't give more than 2% raises and no promotions within contracts - if I want a promotion, I have to go to another contract).

  • ||

    Indeed. My boyfriend was doing some event planning at work a couple weeks ago, and the first caterer he met with mentioned being from "a woman-owned business" like five times within the first two minutes they were talking. He said it was all he could do not to tell him no based only on that.

    Fortunately the food was not that great either so he could go elsewhere in good conscience.

  • Killazontherun||

    You can always snub a blackmailer in good conscience.

  • Killazontherun||

    When Helms made an issue of Harvey Gant making millions by being the front for broadcast companies one of the ads used to drive home the point was made into a leftist rallying cry railing against racism.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    I think the feds want dibs on near term production, so they paid suppliers the necessary premium to divert orders to themselves. Was this happening before the panic buying started?

  • some guy||

    This counts as Stimulus, right?

  • Restoras||

    Cowboy rifle, or cowboy pistol, KK? Or both?

  • ||

    Three more in custody on the Boston Bombings: http://www.nbcwashington.com/n.....03911.html

  • Mike M.||

    "Lone wolves", huh? Lone wolves, my ass.

  • ||

    So you believe the gubmint on this one? After Richard Jewell, Steven Hatfill and Kevin Curtis, I'm skeptical.

  • ||

    So you believe the gubmint on this one?

    I don't believe the government on anything. I sincerely doubt the Boston bombing was a false flag, but I have yet to be shown conclusive proof that it's as cut and dry as the State is making it out to be.

  • ||

    I think the State is trying to make it way more complicated than it actually is.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Probably so we don't think too much about how badly they dropped the ball on actually paying attention to what other nations (who apparently have functional intelligence agencies) were telling us about the older brother.

  • Paul.||

    I would argue that the government is making it out to be less cut and dry. Initially, it looked cut and dry: two disaffected yutes who felt alienated and dissed by American society made an easily built bomb from instructions on the internets and blew some shit up.

    Now it's looking like it could be (operative word: could) a much wider conspiracy.

    The problem here is, yes, the kids may have spoken to come in contact with radicals abroad, but that doesn't mean they were given marching orders.

  • Paul.||

    Boston police did not elaborate on why the three were arested in their official announcement, but federal authorities told NBC News the three will be charged with lying to federal investigators.

    Oh jeez, I heard about the three arrested on the news, but reading Kristen's link, this is small potatoes. Some friends who knew them may have run some interference for their friends in the early stages when strange men with wires in their ears started sniffing around.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    And well you should be, KK. It always pays to wait a bit and see - ie. the latest "ricin mailer".

  • Mike M.||

    Richard Jewell, Steven Hatfill, and Kevin Curtis never carjacked someone, fired shots at the cops while fleeing by automobile, or hid in a stranger's boat.

  • ||

    Yeah, Richard Jewell just bombed the Olympics (oh wait, no he didn't). Steven Hatfill just mailed anthrax and killed several postal workers (oh wait, no he didn't). Kevin Curtis mailed ricin to our Lord and Master and a coupla other bigwigs (oh wait, no he didn't).

  • Zeb||

    Neither did the three people they just arrested.

  • Zeb||

    I'll give that one a bit more time before jumping to any conclusions. They have been known to get this sort of thing wrong.

  • Brett L||

    I expect this is going to be obstruction of justice charges for material witnesses who are non-cooperative.

  • ||

    I don't think they'll be charged with anything. They'll be roughed up by the Fibbies for a few days, then quietly let go without charge. The FBI is in a "do something " mentality right now and probably wants to see if they can dig up more than just two bros from a place that no one has ever heard of.

  • ||

    from a place that no one has ever heard of

    At first I thought you meant Cambridge, then I had a real "duh" moment.

  • Brett L||

    Maybe they're arresting the OTHER 3 guys that both the Saudis and the Russians warned us about.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Hey, remember when Lefties everywhere got their panties in a bunch when it was implied that the Bush administration didn't correctly handle intelligence collected before 9/11 concerning the attacks?

  • Brett L||

    Its not like Obama was reading to a class of 2nd graders, HM. You racist.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Brett L||

    Jesus. First time tragedy, second time farce.

  • Ted S.||

    Was he golfing or fundraising?

  • Paul.||

    I was a bit surprised by this.

    Man, it's really not looking good for the DemOp media early conspiracy theorists.

  • ||

    "They have to be proficient at a very high level," says Medina.

    If DHS spent more time becoming proficient at things other than weapons training, they likely wouldn't need so much weapons training.

  • ||

    It takes a lot of ammo to become a good shot. Just how many agents are they trying to make good shots?

  • CE||

    A hundred rounds a day for a month ought to do it, so 533,333 agents.

  • ATXChappy||

    As a U.S. Marine, I was given 250 rounds a year to maintain my very high level of proficiency.

  • Virginian||

    You mean per week right?

  • ATXChappy||

    Nope, 250 rounds per year. I spent 5 days a year on the rifle range. And, we fired 50 rounds per day.

  • ||

    Let's see: at a time when ammo prices are already sky-high and people are going apeshit buying both guns and ammo because of gun control concerns, the government, whose current ruling administration would like to implement sweeping gun control, buys phenomenal amounts of ammo which makes ammo prices rise even higher and makes it even harder to get. So on top of that, the government is buying tons and tons of ammo at the worst time ever for prices, when they are already out of money and in terrible debt.

    It's really hard to think that's just a coincidence. It's too perfect.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It's hard not to think it's a quasi-gun control effort. Interesting that it hits the poor hardest. Typical of the left, isn't it?

  • John||

    Obama didn't say he was going to pursue gun control "under the radar" did he?

  • Pro Libertate||

    If it's true, I hope a whistleblower comes out with some written proof.

  • John||

    Come on Episiarch. Give them the benefit of the doubt once in a while. It is not like they let guns get smuggled into Mexico in hopes that they would be found at murder scenes and thus become a political justification for gun control or anything. Right?

  • John Galt||

    Uh, actually that's exactly what they did do.

  • John||

    Forgot the sarcasm tag.

  • tarran||

    Forgive John Galt, he's been out of touch with the rest of the world for some time. ;)

  • Fluffy||

    They don't get good broadband in the Gulch.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Someone has already invented something better than broadband internet in the Gulch.

  • Ted S.||

    But do they have better porn in the Gulch?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It's all S&M and Rape Fantasy shit.

  • Coeus||

    Go on...

  • An0nB0t||

    What?! That's a shocking story. Just wait until the media gets ahold of it.

  • Spartacus||

    Yep. Hoovering up the supply of ammo is just as good as gun control. Maybe this will be the new black market opportunity for organized crime once Prohibition ends.

  • John||

    It will have to be a two pronged effort. Eventually the ammunition supply companies will raise production to meet demand. It just takes a while. So, you would have to do something to keep them from raising production.

  • ||

    Just don't approve factory expansion building permits, or allow increased mining, etc. As we have seen, there are many ways to interfere with business and commerce.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Yes, the president's powers extend far beyond issuing illegal executive orders.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Have you seen the shit companies have to go through to open a copper mine? Lead, probably forget it.

  • ||

    Someone say copper?

  • DrAwkward||

    Heh!

  • ||

    Sounds like a job for the EPA.

  • Fluffy||

    You just tell them that as soon as they increase production, you'll stop buying.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    I don't go through personal defense ammo very quickly so, while it sucks, it's not much of an issue for me at this point. Finding range ammo, on the other hand, is a PITA.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I was looking at some ammo site the other day. By the time I had looked at three full pages of .45acp selections, all labeled SOLD OUT in red, I gave up.

  • ||

    I looked at the ammo site I mentioned above in the morning, and they had 93 50-rd. boxes of 45 long. By late afternoon, they had 14 boxes. I bought 7 of those.

  • ||

    At what price?

    And, what pistol have you got in 45LC? Just curious as I have a slew of them.

  • ||

    68c/round. I have the Taurus 410/45 revolver. Her name is Judy.

  • ||

    Now that brings a big smile to my face. The gun does, not the price. For 45 LC it costs me around 10 cents per round.

    I cast and load my own.
    I have been doing so for 30 years and have amassed a good supply of nearly every caliber there is. It makes me sad to see so many people starving for ammo. The people who used to make jabs at me for hoarding ammo all those years are calling me up now.

  • ||

    How complicated is it to cast your own? What kind of equipment? I don't know nuttin bout no homeade ammo (I hardly know anything about mass produced ammo)

  • db||

    Handloading is not complicated but you have to be dedicated to doing it safely. For handguns it's quite simple.

    The biggest problem right now is that it's just as hard to buy bullets, brass, primers, and powder as it is to buy loaded ammo. Plus loading presses are impossible to get right now. I have a friend who's been waiting for a Dillon 650 for two months now and they have no idea when they'll have one for him.

    Casting lead bullets is simple but you absolutely need to be safe. Lead vapor and dust ist not something you want to be breathing if you value your nervous system or intend to have children. You need to build a good fume hood and try to lkmit your skkn contact witg lead. I know a guy who owns a lead bullet casting company and he and his employees are regularly tested for lead exposure. Anyone who doesn't take precautions handling lead in quantity is flirting with disaster.

    Also, getting lead is hareder than it used to be now because auto shops typically need to show environmental comlpliance in their disposal of wheel weights. Gone are the days when you could gwt all the lead you could carry at a tire shop.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    ead vapor and dust ist not something you want to be breathing if you value your nervous system
    try to lkmit your skkn contact witg lead

    I think maybe you failed? (I keed, I keed)

  • db||

    That was actually my first reaction upon reading what I had posted.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Fat fingers or neurological damage?

  • db||

    Fat finver, of course.

    *twitch*

  • some guy||

    KK, Don't you live in Arlington? How many local laws would you be breaking if you started making your own ammo?

  • ||

    Fairfax County. Not sure what the regs are. I imagine they're more 2A-friendly than Arlington, though.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Does Arlington have restrictive gun laws? I lived across from Pentagon Row for a while and never had any issues with LEO. Maybe I just ignored the laws, but my guns were always loaded and always within reach in my apartment.

  • db||

    Is Virginia one of those backward states that allows its municipalities to have stricter gun laws than the state does?

  • ||

    Not sure, db. I think laws are state-wide, by being able to exercise your rights comfortably and without harassment varies by jurisdiction. There was a story Balko posted on the old Agitator blog about a dude in Arlington that decided to see what would happen if he open carried. Within minutes someone called the cops saying a guy was "brandishing" a firearm (he had it holstered the whole time).

  • some guy||

    I have no idea what Arlington's laws are like, I just assumed they were strict because, you know, it's Arlington.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Arlington is run by retards, no doubt. But the only problem I had with gun laws is not having Castle Doctrine (which is statewide, not Arlington). I flat out told a cop that I would do what I had to to defend my family. He just sorta nodded his understanding and left it at that.

    I'm not surprised the guy who was open carrying got harassed, though. Arlington is infected with progtards who started screeching like some of our resident trolls when they found out I owned guns. One guy refused to be in the same room as me because I "am a dangerous gun nut". He even left a party at someone else's house because I showed up.

  • db||

    That's pretty funny. Most of the liberals I know (mostly Dr. Girlfriend's co-workers) just act lile I'm an interesting subspecies to observe and marvel at.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    mostly Dr. Girlfriend's co-workers

    Would that be The Monarch or the minions?

  • ||

    There was another web site that had a few rounds of 45 long, and it was 85c/round. Unreal.

  • ||

    Try byronsammo.com

  • entropy_factor||

    44 mag here. Day after Sandy Hook, I bought 350 rounds of 44. A week later, none to be found.

  • db||

    I am the match director of a local USPSA club. We are reducing the round counts of our matches this year due to the ammo situation. There's a lot of concern in the competitive shooting sports world that we are going to lose shooters in a big way due to the twin prongs of the shitty economy and high ammo prices.

  • John Galt||

    Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz said Thursday that the Department of Homeland Security is using roughly 1,000 rounds of ammunition more per person than the U.S. Army,..

    Alright, everyone move along. Nothing to see here.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Let's not forget that a bunch of NutraSweet's and my comments insulting Tulpa

    You helped nailed him to that cross by not voting for Romney. Isn't that enough for you?

  • ||

    Remember, by not voting for anyone, I voted for Obama. Or something. I don't really understand Tulpalogic, it requires an extra chromosome to get it.

  • sarcasmic||

    It's the paradox of inaction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_inaction

    Nothing is something. Inaction is action.

    Tonyfiy it a bit and you get not taking is giving and not giving is taking.

  • An0nB0t||

    My God, critical theory all makes sense now.

  • Restoras||

    So, if you choose not to decide...you still have made a choice?

  • sarcasmic||

    But have you? That's like saying you signed the social contract when you did not make the choice to reject it.

  • T||

    Yeah, society didn't sign it first, so I threw it out.

  • The Last American Hero||

    I will choose Freewill!

  • UnCivilServant||

    You're not allowed to make that choice.

    /gubmnt

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Yes you are.

    /Geddy Lee

    Geddy trumps gubmint in my book.

  • sarcasmic||

    Geddy doesn't do the writing.

  • Zeb||

    I heard an amusing interview with Geddy Lee recently. Apparently he did write all of the words to their first album the night before they went in to record it because whoever was supposed to write the lyrics didn't finish them. So he was pretty happy when Neil Peart joined the group and was interested in writing lyrics.

  • db||

    They actually had some serious interviews for a new drummer. Alex and Geddy were getting serious about being a pro band and wanted to make sure they got the right guy...they were concerned because John Rutsey was becoming too much of a flake.

    Geddy so wrote the lyrics to at least one song on 2112. I think Alex wrote the words to "Tears."

  • ||

    Might be a song in there.

  • Jon Lester||

    So these agents get all the remedial help they need developing a skill set that some would deny to the rest of us?

  • John Galt||

    That "some" would deny to the rest of us? I suspect it's a prerequisite of employment.

  • Jon Lester||

    Well, I meant some in Congress and their anti-2A support base. I just got lazy, loathe as I usually am to sound like a Fox News personality with "some say."

  • Jingles||

    That's actually bullshit.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-gNReEZJAY

  • Jingles||

    tl;dr: DHS actually only purchased 450 million rounds over five years, giving each agent under its umbrella about a thousand rounds a year to train with. The BILLIONZ OF ROUNDZ lunacy stemmed from fucking Alex Jones adding that number to the number they'd left as an optional maximum purchase if they decided they needed more ammo.

  • John||

    That is not true. They purchased more than that.

  • Jingles||

  • John||

    The link in the post everyone is commenting on you fucking retard.

    DHS told Whispers it regularly fills all of its goods and services requirements at one time because it's cheaper for the agency, and that the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS's purchase said it would need "up to" a certain amount.

    One solicitation by the agency—for training centers and law enforcement personnel—was for "up to" 750 million rounds of training ammunition over the next five years, DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard told Whispers.

  • Jingles||

    Mmhmm. And so far on that "up to" 750 million contract, they decided to purchase... 63 million rounds for the first year. They did not actually purchase and pay for 750 million rounds of ammo.

  • some guy||

    "Yet." You meant to add "yet" to the end of that last sentence.

  • ||

    450 million rounds five years ago is 450 million rounds too many. The Department of Homeland Security is a joke that shouldn't even exist, but unfortunately it does.

  • Jingles||

    Oh, I agree entirely. But it's not BILLIONS of rounds too many.

  • ||

    They have ~half a million agents?

    I dont think the GAO is investigating because of something they read on infowars.

  • Jingles||

    As I said, it's over five fucking years. DHS has about 100k agents under its umbrella, using UP TO ninety million rounds per year.

  • ||

    go ahead and just say it. We know you are dying to dingles.

    Obama is an ardent supporter of the second amendment, right?

  • Jingles||

    I honestly didn't know how good at am at channeling and suppressing pure rage until I read that comment.

    Fuck no he isn't. But apparently suggesting that the president isn't dictating all of DHS's ammo purchases for the sole purpose of keeping ammo costs high means I just don't despise Obama quite enough. Never mind the facts.

  • ||

    That made me chuckle. I thought you were Palins buttplug in disguise.

  • jcalton||

    If you go back to last May, they also bought 450 million rounds of ammunition "for five years." Hmm...hope they pay a lot at DHS if all their field agents are aging at 5x the rate of the rest of us. Either that or the DHS had a shooting war and used 450M rounds of ammo in one year.

    DHS has 240,000 employees. Say half of them are field agents (or carry weapons)...that's 120,000.
    So in 2012 they needed 3750 rounds. That's a lot of training...and now this year they need maybe a billion, maybe 750M, so that's roughly doubled...7500 rounds per person who has a gun. In the army we maybe used 240 per soldier per year when not deployed. The marine here said 500, so the army at half seems about right.
    So DHS needs roughly 30x the training of the US Army...?

    DOES EVERYONE FEEL SAFER YET?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I wonder what the EPA has been up to, with regard to rules covering ammo manufacturers. They would NEVER try to impede the ability of manufacturers from responding to demand, would they?

  • ||

    Handloaders are exempt from the EPA rules covering lead, arsenic etc..

    The manufacturers arent. I am betting the EPA could give them hell if they put their mind to it.

  • John Galt||

    The EPA's sole purpose for existing is the protection of our liberties.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Were you able to type that with a straight face, or did you break down halfway and have to start over?

  • John Galt||

    Well, it took a few more than one tries.

  • ||

    This is what we really need to fear. The EPA could play merry hob with ammo.

  • John||

    I really think this probably is a hair brained attempt at gun control as well as a way to skim money to cronies. You have to remember these people don't recognize the laws of supply and demand. The idea that doing this would cause people to panic buy and hoard I guarantee you never occurred to these idiots. The reality is that there is probably more ammunition in private hands today than there was before this started.

    I suppose this might discourage people from taking up shooting. But I doubt they thought about this stuff that deeply. The other thing is that unless you really like to shoot, you don't need that much ammunition. If properly stored it lasts forever. Gun owners like me who only shoot a few times a year are pretty much unaffected by this. I still have devil sticks in my closet and they still can do harm. And I would imagine there are more gun owners like me than ones who are disarmed by the lack of access to ammo. And the people who shoot a lot usually load their own and or are the ones hoarding what is available and probably have more ammunition on hand than they ever have.

    These people really are morons.

  • UnCivilServant||

    I'm a tad short on .308, 9mm and .22LR. But I've got a metric crapload of 7.63x54R . So as long as I stick to the Russian guns I'm fine.

  • John||

    My brother was telling me .22LR was going for twenty cents a round. That is amazing. You used to be able to buy a bucket of a thousand rounds of the things for less than twenty dollar or less then two cents a round.

  • UnCivilServant||

    I'm trying to find a brand for use in competition shoots that doesn't drop as much at 100 yards as the one I'm using now. Any suggestions?

  • ||

    40 grain CCI mini mags. 3in drop at 100 yds.
    That is the flattest shooting 22lr that I am aware of.

    I have no idea where you can get any. I got lucky and got hold of 500 of them recently, but it was a fluke.

  • UnCivilServant||

    I'll see if I can turn up any, but I'll have to shop out of state thanks to King Cuomo.

    Thanks.

  • ||

    Here you go brother. I hope they are still in stock, I think they are.

    http://www.grouseriver.com/CCI.....001541.htm

    I would order them right now.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Thanks again.

    I would order now, but the work proxy blocks the site (Category block: "Weapons and Ammo" - I hate this state).

    I also can't wait for Cuomo's law to go down in flames. Background checks for "mass ammunition purchases" The threshold is absurdly low. Each smallbore match, we burn 100 rounds of ammunition, about 1000 for the season, depending on cancellations due to rain. Practice takes about as much again. Yet somehow, buying this amount is seen as "dangerous" to the city dwellers who infect the state.

  • Chris Mallory||

    When you go to fill out Billing Info, it only accept Canada as an option.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Well crap.

    There goes that option.

  • ||

    Yep. The boxes of 550 that I used to get at walmart for 9 bucks are now selling for 100 bucks. Unfuckingbelievable.

    I was at a gun show a couple weeks back and watched a woman buy 10 boxes at that price, and was happy to pay it.

    I have enough to keep me happy for now. The bubble will pop.

  • ||

    I think 350 rounds will be fine for me until the bubble pops. Unless I experience that certain something special when I shoot the gun for the first time, i don't think I'll be a regular range visitor. And the 410 seems to be very easy to find, so if I really want to practice, I'll use the 410 and save the 45 for home defense.

  • ||

    Oh my God. Judy is a virgin? For shame Kristen....for shame.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I had to get on my wife about carrying a virgin gun. She got a new Ruger, loaded it, put it in a a holster, and that was that.

    I just stared at her incredulously. I couldn't imagine buying a new gun and not immediately going to the range to fire it. She's really well trained with guns and is a one of the best shots I know, but I mean, come on... new shiny. How can you NOT want to test it out.

  • ||

    The squeeze is on an extended work trip, and I will not fire that gun until he's back. I'm saving it for him, in other words :)

  • ||

    To clarify, I will shoot the gun, at the squeeze's friend's gun shop. But that won't be until mid-May.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    You are a nicer person than I. I couldn't wait that long.

    I took my wife's new pistol to the range the next day because I wanted to shoot it NOW. I dunno, must be a boy thing.

  • Zeb||

    .22LR was going for twenty cents a round

    Holy fuck. I'm glad I stocked up whenever I saw a good deal over the past several years. I think I still have 3000+ rds of 22 in my closet (and about 1000 of .308). I'm sort of tempted to sell some of it off.

  • John Galt||

    The lesson I learned from this shortage is to buy/reload every month whether I need it or not.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Yeah, every time I'm at my in-laws, I go the the basement and load up a few hundred rounds using my FiL's equipment. I also check the sporting goods section of any store I go to whether I need range ammo currently or not.

    I've had to cut way down on range time recently, though. Even getting loading supplies is getting hard. I hate having less than 1000 rounds for any of my guns at any given time.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "They have to be proficient at a very high level," says Medina.

    Dogs are harder to hit than you might think.

  • John||

    In fairness, CBP agents actually do do dangerous work. Cruising the Texas desert alone looking for drug and people smugglers is some pretty crazy shit. But that isn't all of DHS.

  • John Galt||

    Oh, that's cold blooded. I can't believe you posted that.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Her name is Judy.

    Dead to me, you are.

  • ||

    Ain't nuttin wrong with Judge Judy! She hates tax cheats and welfare queens, and also is an alumna of my alma mater.

  • John Galt||

    Watsa mater?

  • ||

  • John Galt||

    Heh-heh.

  • John Galt||

    What's this? I'm watching Glen Beck on Stossel claiming the drug war is a failure.

    Guess I must still be sleeping.

  • entropy||

    Beck has always been kind of libertarian and he's apparently getting more so. I don't know why some libertarians are so down on him, apart from personal distaste. He's a shitload more libertarian than the various Shawn Hannity's and Bill O'Reilly's of the world. We could do a lot worse.

  • John Galt||

    And he has been kind of libertarian on a wide range of issues, however, the drug war was not one of them. Hearing him say the drug war was a "failure" came as a surprise to say the least.

  • Killazontherun||

    I don't have to like everyone I agree with on several matters pertaining to politics. Beck has a cutsie round about way of making his arguments in a folksy lrxicon that grates on my nerves.

  • sarcasmic||

    He tried real hard to be a libertarian but his inner socon gets in the way.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Because a lot of time he goes off half-cocked on conspiracy theories, and we'd rather not have every assume that "libertarian" and "Infowars reader" are synonymous?

  • fish||

    See ......shreeky was right...we all are just a bunch of Beckerheads!

  • CE||

    1.6 billion rounds? Keep in mind they need to fire 200 shots to hit anything, so that would only be enough to stop a revolutionary force of 8 million people.

  • John Galt||

    If they're expecting some kind of revolutionary force wouldn't that amount to somewhat of an admission of guilt?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • John Galt||

    Coincidentally I explained to a group of young people, at a bonfire party last Saturday, that very point.

  • Chris Mallory||

    In GWOT, the GAO has estimated 250,000 rounds per kill.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Re: Boston Bombzers

    I still want to hear a motive, however divorced from reality it may sound to me. Did they just like loud noises, and screaming?

    What atrocity were they commemorating?

  • ||

    I think it's something similar to what Uncle Fred Armisen said - they were underachievers, solidly forgettable in society and at least one of them wanted to be famous and make his mark. Or felt he was "deserving" of fame and success and didn't really want to work at it the old fashioned way. Kind of like Andrew Cunanan.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    What atrocity were they commemorating?

    The atrocity of the infidel kafir Amriki looking down on beating the shit out of one's wife.

  • Brett L||

    I saw something where the older brother felt that a nefarious cabal had held up his citizenship to keep him from boxing in the Olympics. And he apparently was that good of an amateur boxer.

    Of course, the same story noted that several of his training mates, being boxers who'd been punched in the head too many times, thought that there was something worrying about a guy who suffers a major life setback and starts taking time out to pray to Mecca 5x/day all of a sudden. Of course, the 3 letter agencies knew better and ignored him.

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    Muhammed Ali?

  • Brett L||

    He got to fight in the Olympics.

  • John||

    I don't think they thought that deeply. At the time they were arrested they were apparently driving to New York to party for the weekend. You are the most wanted men in America and your first thought is lets drive down to New York and party.

    They were not bright. They didn't have a plan beyond blowing something up and becoming a celebrity for the jihad. Don't under estimate the power of celebrity here. I would imagine in the crazy Muslim circles these guys ran in, they are now rock stars and legends. My guess is that was what they were after more than anything.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Don't under estimate the power of celebrity here. I would imagine in the crazy Muslim circles these guys ran in, they are now rock stars and legends. My guess is that was what they were after more than anything.

    That's true, and John Robb (Brave New War) has written extensively about this phenomenon.

  • ||

    Like I said - Andrew Cunanan.

  • Zeb||

    I just don't get people, I guess. It's hard enough for me to understand why someone would want to be a celebrity at all. Wouldn't it be better just to be rich, but not recognized? But to want celebrity for doing something that is pretty likely to land you in prison or dead? I cannot make sense of that as a motivation at all.

  • Paul.||

    What atrocity were they commemorating?

    The Western World's clash with the traditions of Islam.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    John| 5.1.13 @ 12:59PM |
    Paul.| 5.1.13 @ 1:01PM

    When you guys post in close proximity, my brain gets torn between thinking about the Beatles and the Apostles.

  • John Galt||

    Peter, Paul and Mary.

    Makes me think of Puff the Magic Dragon.

  • db||

    I think John Paul Jones, the most important member of Led Zeppelin.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Dammit, now it's gonna go in three directions. As if my ADD weren't bad enough.

    OOOH SQUIRREL!

  • John Galt||

    Oh, man, I wish I could ADD. For some reason I can only SUBTRACT and MULTIPLY.

  • John Galt||

    Far better than the nursery rhymes style of Peter, Paul and Mary.

  • Zeb||

    Don't for get the Popes John Paul.

  • Paul.||

    My mother actually named me with the Apostle in mind. I'm guessing John was named with the Beatles in mind.

  • John Galt||

    The Beatles, weren't they that band that was more popular than Jesus?

  • Zeb||

    One of them, yeah.

  • ant1sthenes||

    This seems like a good time to get hired by DHS and take their ammo (if it's stockpiled, steal it, if they're wasting it, take it for "training" and then resell it). You could make a killing.

  • John Galt||

    Sounds like a good plan to carry off some of those rounds inside your body.

  • John||

    It wouldn't surprise me if there was some of that going on.

  • Mr. Weebles||

    I used to stop by the local Wally World once a week or so for household crap. While there I would faithfully grab a box or two of ammo, usually .22LR or 9mm.

    My girlfriend at the time used to joke about me hoarding ammo but who's laughing now? I have about 9000 rounds of Federal .22LR, 2000 rounds of 9mm and 3500 rounds of 5.56 in my ammo closet. Also a couple hundred mixed rounds of 12ga buckshot and slug rounds and 100 rounds each of .308 and .30-06.

    Thank God I bought it went it was available. Some of the guys I see at the range will show up, shoot ten rounds and go home because they don't want to use up any of their dwindling supply of ammo.

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