Obama-Supporting Union Calls for Full Repeal of ObamaCare

Photo credit: Pat Dalton... / Foter.com / CC BY-NC-NDPhoto credit: Pat Dalton... / Foter.com / CC BY-NC-NDIn January I noted that even though labor unions generally supported the passage of President Obama's health care overhaul, many are less than thrilled with it now. That's because the law is written in such a way that it creates big incentives for unions that rely on multiemployer health plans for members to drop those plans and instead send their members to the law's newly created health exchanges. For unions, this is a really big deal, because high-quality health benefits are one of the biggest enticements labor groups have to attract and retain members.

Now, via Janet Adamy at The Wall Street Journal and Sean Higgins at The Washington Examiner, it looks like one union is calling for full repeal: the 22,000-member, D.C. based United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers. Here's part of the statement from the union, which supported Obama for president in both 2008 and 2012: 

But regrettably, our concerns over certain provisions in the ACA have not been addressed, or in some instances, totally ignored. In the rush to achieve its passage, many of the Act's provisions were not fully conceived, resulting in unintended consequences that are inconsistent with the promise that those who were satisfied with their employer sponsored coverage could keep it.

These provisions jeopardize our multi-employer health plans, have the potential to cause a loss of work for our members, create an unfair bidding advantage for those contractors who do not provide health coverage to their workers, and in the worst case, may cause our members and their families to lose the benefits they currently enjoy as participants in multi-employer health plans.

You can find the full statement here

This continues to be an interesting substory in the health law battle, because it forces the Obama administration to pick between helping a political ally and keeping costs down.  

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  • ||

    it forces the Obama administration to pick between helping a political ally and keeping costs down

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that he will find a way to help the political ally at the expense of keeping costs down. Get it? "At the expense"?

  • ||

    Was that a fucking pun? From you?

  • ||

    No, it was a trap, and you fell for it. God, you really are the worst. I had at least hoped to suck Hugh in.

    I should probably rethink the phrasing on that last sentence.

  • ||

    Hehehe, who's trapping whom? I WILL KEEP THAT GODDAMN TIARA FOREVER.

  • ||

    That's...that's not possible. I can't have been outsmarted by a woman!

    I'm just going to believe that I won, nicole. Think of it as my own rationalization gopher or something.

  • ||

    It's a ferret, actually.

  • ||

    DON'T CORRECT ME.

    This is all I have to say.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Full of win!

    If I ever disagree with Nikki, I'm just gonna use this.

    "you're talkin to me about stuff. Why? I'd much rather see your titties"

  • ||

    It's true, you would.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    You're talkin to me about stuff... why? I'd much rather see your titties.

  • ||

    We didn't disagree!

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I stand by my statement. ;)

  • Hugh Akston||

    I suppose you expect me to post some kind of response because you used my name. Well fuck the both of you. I'm not a dog that comes when summoned.

    I'm not posting anything in response, and you can't make me.

  • ||

    Ok, now roll over!

  • ||

    Fuck you and the sonnet you rode in on, Hugh.

  • Paul.||

    News all a-twitter... suspect in Boston Bombings has been identified.

  • John||

    Saw that. How fucking pathetic is it that most people are anxiously waiting to see if the suspect is part of the other tribe whichever that is?

  • Paul.||

    How fucking pathetic is it that most people are anxiously waiting to see if the suspect is part of the other tribe whichever that is?

    Because the pundit-sphere and the legislator-sphere are going to craft policy based on it. How do we know what to make illegal if we don't know who killed those kids?

  • ||

    Extremely pathetic, but utterly predictable. They are literally waiting with bated breath to see if they can climb on top of the dead bodies. You can feel it oozing from the media like some kind of repulsive current just under the surface.

  • NoVAHockey||

    my bet, he's not right wing ... only b/c CNN is saying he might "only think he's part of a group ... delusions of grandeur"

  • Virginian||

    It really doesn't matter. I mean, a card carrying Communist killed JFK, and somehow the right is still to blame.

    It could be a dude with an Obama O tattoed on his face, and it would somehow still be the right wing at fault.

  • ||

    Have you ever been to the museum at Dealy Plaza? It's all about how the Right murdered JFK. Hilarious. It's worth the trip to just listen to all the conspiracy theorists talk about the grassy knoll and shit, too.

  • Virginian||

    Nah, but have had a lefty say that Josef Stalin was really a rightwinger because once someone becomes a dictator and throws people in camps they're automatically rightwing.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Even better, some crackpot professor goes around on the debate circuit saying Stalin got a bad rap from relatives of his victims. Dr. Richard J. Kossmann mentions him in this Mises Institute speech: http://youtu.be/egyIj2yXZ9k

  • ||

    Yes. First place I went to when I moved to Dallas two years ago. The first 3rd of the museum and audio guide are all about right-wing opponents, right wing news articles (they're very careful to highlight any possible innuendo to death or harm), and a very thorough recanting of secret service preparations with multiple references to "right-wing extremist" threats.

    Once you get past all that, it shows where the gun is, then you get to stand basically where LHO stood, see pictures of the ambulance goign to Parkland hospital, and THEN you get to the whole communist angle.

    By then everyone got to see out the window and see the gun and people just kind of breeze by and go to the 'conspiracy theory' section. They knew what they were doing when they designed the place.

    Almost as politically daft as the Obama museum tearing down Reagan's childhood apartment to make room for the parking structure.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Sorry - but it's really not his childhood home - he lived there from 3 to 4.

    & Obama has nothing to do with it... though a university does own the property and does wish to donate it for Obama's Presidential Library, no such selection has been made at this time.

  • Hyperion||

    Don't worry, if he turns out to be Islamic, the left will just start labeling Islamists as right wing. And I bet they had teabagger friends that were cheering them on.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Not Islamic, but on the relabeling behavior, it took them years to label the New Black Panthers "right-wing" so this might take a while.

  • Loki||

    the left will just start labeling Islamists as right wing

    A lot of lefties already love to point out much "right wing" Christians (CHRISTFAGS!!!) have in common with radical islamists. I.e. "both hate teh gays, wymmens rights, want to live in theocratic states. Blah, blah, blah." So it's only a matter of time. I'd say just give them time to indoctrinate a generation of publik skool attendees with it.

  • Lord Humungus||

    c'mon white guy, c'mon tea party member, c'mon republican /lefties

    c'mon muslim, c'mon OWS, c'mon democrat /righties

  • ||

    I've got 100:1 on a German anarchist.

  • ||

    I really have no idea, but it's probably going to be a total nutjob who once lost a marathon by a whole minute or something, or a guy who possesses a terrible resentment for his cross country coach, or someone who hates finish lines. You know, the kind of crazy mother fucker who would actually set bombs off in the middle of crowds.

  • ||

    If that's the case it'll be amusing to see the talking heads on the alphabet networks hide their disappointment.

  • ||

    Oh, I am hoping so. Not only will it not give them grist for their various mills, it will be a terrible letdown for them, and I will thoroughly enjoy the media's collective sadface. It wasn't the other TEAM! I HAZ A SAD

  • ||

    What the media will do in that case is interview someone who once knew him back in elementary school who thought maybe he saw a copy of The Turner Diaries on his pillow one time.

  • Virginian||

    I was "counseled" once in high school because my copy of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich had a big old swastika on the cover.

  • Loki||

  • sloopyinca||

    I was "counseled" once in high school because my copy of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich had a big old swastika on the cover.

    Try carrying a signed copy of Inside The Third Reich to your 9th Grade world history class when you're going over WWII. My Jewish teacher nearly gave birth.

  • Pippers||

    Paul Ryan?

  • Brandon||

    I keep thinking about the phone book scene from The Jerk.

  • ||

    Gavrilo Princip

  • ||

    I've got 100:1 on a German anarchist.

    No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.

  • Hyperion||

    They're holding a special prayer over at HuffPo, praying that it is NOT anyone from the middle east, cause if it is, American Arabs will all be unfairly rounded up and sent to Gitmo.

    At the same time, they are praying that it IS a teabagger so that all teabaggers can be unfairly rounded up and sent to Gitmo.

    The tolerant left.

  • Paul.||

    News is reporting a "dark skinned male". Immigration reform is in trouble.

  • Zeb||

    Because there aren't any native born dark skinned Americans?

  • Paul.||

    No. They're all dirty immigrants and any dark-skinned man related to a bombing is because of all you open-border libertarians.

    Get with the program!

  • Zeb||

    Oh, right. Sorry.

  • Zeb||

    I forgot that open-borders favoring libertarians are responsible for the current immigration policy with it's non-open borders.

  • ||

    We tried to warn you Shikha but you wouldn't listen! WHY WOULDN'T YOU LISTEN!

    If it is an immigrant, it'd probably be the respectable thing for her to not recycle that immigration article again today.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Yep - today for main stream opinion there is only white and other.

    Imagine the cognitive dissonance if it turns out to be a black man acting for McVeigh like reasons....

  • Mike M.||

    What a country we're living in. I'm so sick of these psychotic assholes.

  • Hyperion||

    I've been reading comments over there since the bombing.

    They are in quite the mood.

    Their hopes of severe restrictions on the 2nd amendment, after having jumped up and down on the backs of dead children for months, are quickly fading.

    Now, if this does not turn out to be a teabagger or other right wing extremist, I think the left are going to finally lose their minds and go completely ape shit.

  • Paul.||

    It's not a stretch to tie in pressure cooker bombs with gun control. I mean, the connection is clear.

  • Hyperion||

    Umm, there have already been comments there like 'Now are you happy, NRA gun nuts?'

  • Loki||

    I've been reading comments over there since the bombing.

    Why the hell would you do something like that to yourself? There are many other much better ways to abuse oneself, you know?

  • Hyperion||

    At least I refuse to go to Salon or Jezebel, unlike some here.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    There are many other much better ways to abuse oneself

    Giggity

  • some guy||

    In this case the only tribes that matter are "terrorists" and "not terrorists". I am damn certain the culprit is from "the other tribe".

  • Pro Libertate||

    Good. Hope they got the guy.

  • Sevo||

    I hope Richard Jewell stayed indoors.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Hope they got the guy who actually built and set off the bombs.

  • robc||

    Considering he is in a coffin, I would guess he did.

  • Ice Nine||

    Not very good at command detonation if he is.

  • Sevo||

    Well, maybe not in doors, but out of the way.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    You make that sound like it is a better alibi than he had last time. Good luck with that theory.

  • Hyperion||

    NBC and MSNBC are now saying that no arrests have been made. CNN are saying an arrest has been made. Synchronicity.

  • ||

    Fox has joined in and said an arrest has been made and suspect will be arraigned in court later today.

  • Ice Nine||

    FOX is obviously up to something really dirty.

  • Hyperion||

    Now CNN are backing off again, and saying No arrest. I guess that means no teabaggers were identified among the current suspects.

  • Sevo||

    AP's trying to pull the foot out of the mouth also.

  • some guy||

    You'd think they'd learn their lesson about jumping the gun by now. Also, any information given by an anonymous source should be immediately suspect. Trust, but verify and all that...

  • ||

    News all a-twitter... suspect in Boston Bombings has been identified.

    That's SOOOOO 1:53.

    That story has been discredited since like 1:56

  • John||

    I pointed this out during the AM links. And someone rightfully made the point, so what? This is a blue collar union. And Obama has made it abundantly clear that blue collar workers' interests are not to be in any way represented or protected in the government. In short, go fuck yourself roofers. If you don't like it, go on welfare like every real American should.

  • Paul.||

    United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers.

    Yeah, these guys seem small-time. Never heard of them.

    There probably isn't a union in the United States that didn't support Obama. The question Obama asks before sticking it to one of them, how many members you got and how big was your contribution?

  • pmains||

    Wikipedia has an estimate of 22,000 members.

  • Paul.||

    Infinitesmally tiny. Don't even answer their phone calls.

  • Raston Bot||

    As they are only 22,000 strong, they are expendible.

  • Hyperion||

    Obama knows that he and the Dems can stick it to their supporters as many times as they want, as deep and hard as they want. And they will continue to receive their votes. Why? Because the choice? RETHUGLICANS! Rethuglicans will sew up our vaginas and put us in chains again! Oh noes!

    And what do Republicans do to fix this? Make fun of Rand Paul and double down on the drug war and foreign wars, and SoCon crap.

  • Paul.||

    They ran Romney! The anti-Obama candidate! Because, that's the sound of electability!

  • phandaal||

    Think of progressivism as an Oreo. Liberals want Oreos, and Republicans try to win them over by giving them a Hydrox with a complimentary vaginal probe.

  • Rhywun||

    Hydrox are better than Oreos anyway. I dunno about that other thing.

  • ||

    Hydrox were better than Oreos. RIP.

  • Rhywun||

    Yeah, I looked that up. Fucking cookie monopoly.

  • ||

    But Tulpa told us that Romney lost because of libertarians.

  • Hyperion||

    If that's so, I'm really proud of our achievement.

  • some guy||

    If only we could have also kept Obama from being elected. Oh well, 1 for 2 ain't that bad.

  • Paul.||

    If you consider "never having a snowball's chance in hell" as "because of libertarians", I'll take it.

    And in all serialness, I would take that credit for Romney's loss. That way, we can clearly say that any Obama opposition candidate that ignores libertarians does so at his or her peril.

    Or what hyperion said.

  • Hyperion||

    Rand Paul and a few others have tried to tell them this, and what good does it do?

    Wacko-birds!

  • Lord Humungus||

    *mumbles* you reap what you sow *mumbles*

  • Sevo||

    "*mumbles* you reap what you sow *mumbles*"

    The hell with mumbling; the assholes voted for it and now they're griping?
    OK, repeal it, *except* for special dispensation regarding the roofers; they still get stuck with it.
    Fuck 'em all; 'we'll see what's in it after it passes'.

  • Lord Humungus||

    don't other me - I'm just the guy in the back of the room.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "In the rush to achieve its passage, many of the Act's provisions were not fully conceived, resulting in unintended consequences that are inconsistent with the promise that those who were satisfied with their employer sponsored coverage could keep it."

    I don't think they understand that once ObamaCare is fully implemented, their members will learn to love it.

    You have to fully implement it to find out what's in it.

  • ||

    In the rush to achieve its passage, many of the Act's provisions were not fully conceived, resulting in unintended consequences that are inconsistent with the promise that those who were satisfied with their employer sponsored coverage could keep it.

    The tears could not possibly be yummier or sweeter.

  • ||

    Bittersweet, dude. We're going to get fucked too, and not the good kind.

  • Hyperion||

    resulting in unintended consequences

    Nothing that congress does has unintended consequences, they are all intended. Job security!

  • Hyperion||

    I know how this works. IT is sort of the same, it works like this:

    Wednesday: Run script that intentionally breaks all sorts of shit.

    Thursday: Fix all the broken stuff.

    Friday: Relax and bask in the glow and glory of being the hero for fixing all the broken shit, yesterday. 5PM - drank.

    Next Week: Repeat sure fire formula for job security.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    "unintended consequences"

    Fully predictable results should never be labeled in this way.

  • Hyperion||

    Here's some great news to cheer up the war boners:

    More troops to middle east

  • Brandon||

    How is this possible in the midst of sequestration?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Supposedly these are photos of suspects:

    http://www.fromthetrenchesworl.....und/41400/

  • ||

    There are some interesting pics in there. This one caught my eye.

  • Paul.||

    I didn't get that one. That's clearly after the blast.

  • ||

    Perhaps trying to detonate another? Or just some schmo trying to take cover (though the woman with the pink poster doesn't seem too concerned). It's hard to tell if that's one of the guys from the crowd pics.

  • ||

    (man with pink poster)

  • Paul.||

    Also note the Korean flag right there. This was a North Korean plot... it's now all so clear.

  • Hyperion||

    Yep. It really looks a lot like the guy in the light colored hat and black jacket, who could definitely have something big enough to be a pressure cooker in that backpack.

  • Paul.||

    If the shredded backpack is the one which held the device, the white Unabomber dude had a backpack which had the most matching features, particularly the grey accent stripe down the shoulder straps.

    While other backpacks had interesting or similar features, that was the most glaring to me.

    Plus, he looked shifty and didn't fit in with the crowd. Also, he was carrying the backpack over his forearm, as if he wasn't commited to carrying it for long and was preparing to set it down when he found the right place.

    The Arab-ey, Muslim-ey looking guys actually fit in with the Marathon crowd much more naturally, what with all their Addidas tracksuit goodness..

  • Loki||

    he was carrying the backpack over his forearm, as if he wasn't commited to carrying it for long and was preparing to set it down when he found the right place.

    Or maybe the backpack wasn't that heavy* and he just happened to be holding it in a weird way?

    *Which would kind of rule out the possibility of a pressure cooker loaded with explosives and ball bearings wouldn't it? I have no idea how much that would weigh, but I'd think it would be enough that you'd want to wear it on your back, not hang it over your arm. At least not for any length of time, which is another thing that's unknown: how long was he standing like that for?

    Which I guess is the real takeaway: while some of these people in the photos may look a little suspicous or out of place, I don't think anyone can jump to any conclusions right now. Although I wouldn't blame the police for wanting to talk to them either.

  • SusanM||

  • Jordan||

    That was actually pretty good.

  • Hyperion||

    2 of those guys could definitely be Arab. The 2nd guy in the black jacket(not seen with backpack on, but standing beside holding backpack) though, looks caucasion.

    Teabaggers and Arabs team up?

  • ||

    3 Arabs and a white convert? It really is life imitating that British comedy 'Four Lions'.

  • Hyperion||

    There are lots of white converts in Britain, I have heard.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    There are lots of white converts in Britain, I have heard.

    They're smart enough to recognize which way the demographics are running. Southern England's pretty much going to be an emirate in about 10-20 years.

  • Hyperion||

    Probably a lot of other European countries, also. Sweden for one.

    I don't know that it's going to take that long. Entire areas of cities in England have went Shariah, and they're starting to become violent when anyone invades their turf.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    OKC conspiracy all over again. Every bombing is a rerun these days.

  • Paul.||

    Occupiers and Jihadis.

  • John||

    That is what I am thinking. The one white tall dude with the bad neck beard looks like a hipster OWS person.

  • Hyperion||

    I ain't buying OWS being any more involved in this, than I am that it's teabaggers.

    Not saying that OWS could not become violent, but I think their targets would be banks, corporate offices, a stock exchange, anywhere on Wall Street, etc. But a marathon? Why?

  • John||

    Looking at the pictures, two of them are clearly middle eastern. I would be very surprised if the Aryan nation or tax people got involved with anyone with middle eastern connections. But assuming these are the guys, a big assumption I know, we have two middle eastern guys and an aging white guy. Maybe the white guy is a convert to Islam. But his beard looks wrong for that. Most converts either have no beard or go for a long religious one, not five days of bad hipster neck beard. If he is not a convert, who is he? OWS or some lefty splinter group is the likeliest option. Someone who is pissed off about America's imperial war on the brown people, hates Israel and is a sympathizer to the jihadist cause.

    Think about it. Jihadists marched at OWS rallies. Jihadists and hard leftists have been allied in Europe for years. They share many of the same opinions about capitalism, Israel and the US.

  • Hyperion||

    I am not 100% convinced that those two guys are middle eastern, but I would say it's very likely.

    I've been saying for a long time that leftists 'thinking' Islamists are their friends in one of the most stupid mistakes in history. They'll find out when they all wind up as some type of slaves, forcefully converted, or beheaded, and all the liberal women find themselves in Burquas.

  • John||

    Hyperion, feminists march with Jihadists in Europe. Think about that for a while. Insanity is a polite way of putting it.

  • Zeb||

    Which feminists do that?

    I like the Femen ones much better.

  • ||

    A friend of a friend went to Turkey to "teach" and lived in the Istanbul gecekondu (urban shanty towns populated by very conservative Muslims from rural areas). She, in her naive lefty do-gooderism, thought those poor, poor people would welcome her with open arms.

    They hated her guts and made her feel unsafe and unwelcome. You gotta be very offensive for a Turk not to welcome you.

  • John||

    Kristen,

    There are really a lot of people in the world you just don't want to meet. Liberals problem is that they think most of those people reside in scary places like Huntsville and Dallas.

    When I was in Iraq, I lived in a safe house with a USAID middle eastern "expert". She walked around every night in the house in shorts. She then was shocked that the teenage boy from whose family we were renting the house stared at her. This is a society where men don't uncover their legs and a woman doing so is unthinkable. Yet, she was shocked that a man from such a culture would stare at her in shorts. And she was an "expert".

  • Enough About Palin||

    And hard leftists planned tho throw Molotov cocktails at cops and others at the 2008 RNC in Minneapolis.

  • Loki||

    Most converts either have no beard or go for a long religious one, not five days of bad hipster neck beard.

    Maybe that's the best he can do. Some people have trouble growing ful beards. Not me though, damn Welsh heritage. I get 5:00 shadow by noon.

  • John||

    but I think their targets would be banks, corporate offices, a stock exchange, anywhere on Wall Street, etc. But a marathon? Why?

    You could say the same thing about Jihadists. Why not a military rally or a government building or a stock exchange or something designed to hurt us economically? A marathon really doesn't make sense from any perspective. Yet, they did it.

  • ||

    You fools, it's a Greek separatist group who is protesting the appropriation of ancient Greek traditions. They would have hit the Olympics but the food in London is terrible.

  • Hyperion||

    They had better be worrying about getting any money they have left out of their banks, instead of blowing up marathons.

  • ||

    Dude, if they were good with money they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

    Next act of terror: bombing every diner in Manhattan.

  • John||

    No Episiarch. It is a group of radical French Cyclists. They have decided to end the scourge of distance running forever. From now on the paths will be free to cyclists with no runners in their way.

  • ||

    You're overthinking this, John. The French Cyclists Liberation Front primarily concerns itself with Lance Armstrong. This bombing was retaliation for all the runners that are wearing Livestrong bracelets.

  • Paul.||

    You fools, it's a Greek separatist group who is protesting the appropriation of ancient Greek traditions.

    Did you see anyone with Pom-poms on their shoes and wearing skirts? Didn't think so.

    Don't make me post that picture that Hugh hates so much.

  • ||

    The guy in the blue fleece holding the backpack around his forearm looks like an aging beado hipster. THE HIPSTERZ DID IT!!

  • Virginian||

    I am perfectly ok with the internment of hipsters.

  • John||

    Round them up. Put them in camps and reeducate them. Take away their laptops, make them drink only black coffee and teach them some kind of usable skill. Try to make productive human beings out of them.

  • Hyperion||

    Is that before or after we nuke Pyongyang?

  • John||

    Sarcasm, how does it work? And with regards to Pyongang, a surgical strike would be insanity. First, it would almost certainly not take out the leadership or Un. We bombed Iraq for weeks and never got Saddam. And we had a 1000 times more intelligence about Iraq than we do about North Korea. All a surgical strike would do would ensure the NORKS got off a massive retaliation on Seoul killing tens of thousands of South Korea. The only way to attack North Korea would be in a single massive strike that would take away their ability to retaliate. Anything short of that, the sort of half assed measures you guys were talking about, would be nothing but the de facto murder of God knows how many South Koreans.

  • NoVAHockey||

    " teach them some kind of usable skill"

    You want the impossible

  • fish||

    Waterboarding too...while screaming...."This is what questionable fashion decisions and lifestyle choices get you"!

  • Zeb||

    Looks like a middle aged boring guy from Boston to me.

  • Zeb||

    Or maybe just good a good old American melting pot.

  • CampingInYourPark||

  • John||

    I am prejudiced but I would be shocked if the beardo white dude is not some kind of OWS freak.

  • Paul.||

    I've been wondering, all things being equal, why OWS has been utterly immune from even the suggestion that they're involved from the pundit-sphere.

    I mean, even I admit it seems unlikely because OWS types didn't grow up in flyover country playing with improvised explosives when they were kids the way we (I) did.

    Plus, the average OWSer would have just blown himself up.

    But still.

  • John||

    As someone pointed out the other day. The anti-war groups in the 60s were almost exclusively dumb college kids. But out of that came the weather underground and the SLA and such. It only takes a few nuts to form a terror cell.

  • Paul.||

    Well, we do know that when leftists get on the terrorism wagon full bore, than can really do it right.

    Remember the Red Army Faction? Yeah. Those motherfuckers were surgical.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Herrhausen

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    I've been wondering, all things being equal, why OWS has been utterly immune from even the suggestion that they're involved from the pundit-sphere.

    It's not like there isn't a precedent for their partisans playing with dangerous toys:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....ZyfC1pLVXN

  • Paul.||

    The privileged daughter of a prominent city doctor, and her boyfriend — a Harvard grad and Occupy Wall Street activist — have been busted for allegedly having a cache of weapons and a bombmaking explosive in their Greenwich Village apartment.

    Defense attorney: Fertilizer for their sustainable organic garden.

    Prosecutor: Fertilizer... for an organic garden?

    Defense attorney: It was an experimental organic garden. We're talking about progressives here.

  • fish||

    The privileged daughter of a prominent city doctor...

    Terrorist or not....I'd hit that hard!

  • Zeb||

    Really? I think beardo white dude looks like pretty much every schlumpy middle aged white guy in New England.

  • ||

    I like the one that is only a half dozen or so down, with the chick's ass circled and "da bomb" written on the picture.

  • ||

    Jesse Walker's earlier post got me all investigativey and conspiracy-ey.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    That linked story was the longest damn thing I've read online this century.

  • ||

    Never read a Reddit thread?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    No, thankfully my old-fart status was solidified before whatever Reddit is became a thing.

  • Hyperion||

    No end in sight to congress, both teams, playing fast and loose with our tax dollars.

    Free MarcoPhones

    WTF? Where's my free fucking phone for having brought my wife here? This had better be retroactive. And I want an unlocked Galaxy S4, not one of those cheapo phones were I can't see the damn screen, mofos!

  • ||

    What I don't get is why no one has claimed responsibility....isn't the point of these things to, you know, make a point?

  • Hyperion||

    I had this discussion extensively, with John, yesterday. We disagree about it.

    I still think that this is blowback from the middle east, and that it is someone from the middle east pissed at us either about Malawi, or drone attacks, or the myriad of other reasons they have for hating us. They could be lone wolves and not necessarily Al Queda, or any other large organized group. If that's the case, maybe they really do not want to get caught.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I've always wondered something. If the point of terrorism is to cause terror and panic, why would you want your enemy to know who did it? Giving the attacker a name/face/org gives the attacked something to rally around and fight against.

    If you wanted to cause maximum panic and terror, the attacks would be random and no one would know who is responsible.

    Look at how much thought and speculation is going into who's responsible for Boston, and nobody can agree. The moment we find out the identity of the responsible parties, all focus will be on prosecuting and hating them and not on worrying if the trash can next to me on the corner is going to explode.

  • ||

    I think the point of these things is to send a political message while at the same time causing fear. You ain't gonna send no message if you don't say who you are.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I dunno.

    Maybe they just learned that taking credit for the bombings causes them and everyone they've ever known to get murderdroned, so they're keeping quiet and laughing at the FBI trying to find the suspects.

  • $park¥||

    Hey, get the fuck out of my head. That's twice today.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Great minds and all...

    When was the other one?

  • $park¥||

    The 'quantum' thing in AM Links.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Oh yeah. Shit, it's been a long day.

  • Hyperion||

    Or like I said yesterday, if it's Islamists and they can get someone else blamed, and get a divided America to really turn on each other in a civil war, it's a huge win for terrorists. And I am sure they are well aware that the left are just itching for a chance to turn the government loose against extremist white teabaggers, with guns.

    If they really want to stir up trouble in the USA, why not try to exacerbate a situation that is already just waiting to boil over into violence?

  • John||

    If that was their plan, they would have figured out some way to make it look more like a false flag. If you want to get the lefties pissed off, you blow up an IRS building and send a manifesto to the NYT explaining that it was done to protect America's constitutional rights. But none of that happened here. The follow on to ensure the right people get blamed never happened.

    You are reaching here Hyperion.

  • Hyperion||

    We're all reaching. It's all we've got.

    But I still think it's going to be connected to the middle east, or Islam.

  • Zeb||

    I still think (or hope) that it is some nutcase with no coherent cause.

  • Libertarius||

    It is obvious that Bernanke is behind this whole thing, because the fiat price of gold has tanked and the 10 & 30 year T-bond yields have also fallen.
    Now Bernanke can continue to monetize debt at absurdly low interest rates for the common good! Forward!

    Which makes absolutely no sense, unless you figure there are several jokers in the system (which there are). National disasters should inspire intelligent people to own gold, not go buy bernanke bonds lolz

    The fiat dollar ponzi racket is at the root of all this evil and destruction.

  • Zeb||

    That's it! Bernanke is the bearded white guy in the picture.

  • Paul.||

    What I don't get is why no one has claimed responsibility....isn't the point of these things to, you know, make a point?

    That's why I'm leaning lone-wolf domestic.

    The Jihadis love to flaunt their work.

  • John||

    I tend to agree. I think it is some small cell who really believes they are starting a revolution. They don't want to get caught because they think they have more work to do.

  • Hyperion||

    A revolution for what?

    What sort of revolution do you start by targeting runners? The counter fitness revolution?

  • Paul.||

    The same revolution you start by flying a plane into a building full random offices?

    I caution against finding logic behind the terrorist's acquisition of his target.

  • John||

    They want to terrorize people. They want people to feel like the government can't protect them.

    Yeah, it is totally fucked up. I can't come up with a single sane reason why anyone would bomb the Boston Marathon. An IRS office or police station? Sure. Even a university if you are dealing with some anti-tech nut like the unibomber. But a marathon makes no sense at all. The only way it makes sense is if AQ is doing it. But AQ would have likely blown themselves up and would have certainly claimed responsibility by now.

    This thing is really nuts.

  • John||

    Hyperion,

    I bet we are both over thinking this. You are right, there isn't any kind of good political motive for this. So, I bet it is someone with a specific grudge against the Marathon. Seriously, some disgruntled former volunteer or something stupid like that.

  • Hyperion||

    Never fear, CNN will reveal the truth for us soon, right after the next 3000 false reports.

  • ||

    Well, *I* as a labor union member with incredibly bitchen insurance cetainly does not support this Obamacare nightmare.

  • $park¥||

    I does not. Bitchen.

    Attaboy, Dunphy.

  • fish||

    Bitchen...

    Maybe that's the Seattle spelling?

  • Loki||

    But regrettably, our concerns over certain provisions in the ACA have not been addressed, or in some instances, totally ignored.

    "Maybe you should have thought of that before being so singy with your campaign donation. A couple more zeros on that check would have made a big difference" - Captain 0

  • Paul.||

    Feds are now declaring that there is NO arrest in the bombings.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/.....?hpt=hp_t1

    Damnit, it's like waiting for surgery. My rights are going to be trampled in one way or another once they find him. I just want to get it over with.

  • Paul.||

    A Boston law enforcement told CNN, "We got him," but won't clarify whether that means a suspect has been identified or arrested.

    Well, that's just stupid of BPD to say that. Words mean things.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, they haven't found any teabaggers yet, it's not their fault. Teabaggers are difficult to find in Boston.

  • Paul.||

    Meaning they should stand out more.

  • Banjos||

    I personally hope the Boston bomber is a huge Voyager fan so we can rid ourselves of the series once and for all, and let's ban Enterprise while were at it to be on the safe side.

  • ||

    I think it's a given that anyone sick enough to like VOY is completely capable of bombing a marathon.

    (glances at nicole)

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure that whoever did it must have been a Soul Asylum fan. I mean, what a fucking fag, you know?

  • $park¥||

    The FBI is working on decoding your gay-ass code speak right now. Keep it up.

  • ||

    What's a Soul Asylum? Is that where your victims go to die?

  • ||

    I don't see what's sick about liking...

    No, there's no legitimate justification for it. EXCEPT THAT IT HAS ALL THE BEST Q EPISODES, MOTHERFUCKER.

  • ||

    She doesn't even try and deny it. See? Sick!

  • sloopyinca||

    EXCEPT THAT IT HAS ALL THE BEST Q EPISODES, MOTHERFUCKER.

    OT: Does anybody know how to go about legally changing a child's middle name?

  • ||

    I think you have to start by reimbursing the winning bid for the child's middle naming rights. ;)

  • ||

    Because we all know that money would not have gone to reason (magazine) without Reason (baby).

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm ready to write the check if Nicole doesn't admit that TNG was superior to Voyager.

  • Virginian||

    Well, she is the worst ever. So it makes sense that she would think the worst ever Trek is in fact the best.

  • Loki||

    it makes sense that she would think the worst ever Trek is in fact the best.

    I take it you've never watched Enterprise.

  • sloopyinca||

    I take it you've never watched Enterprise.

    I'm posting this just for confirmation.

  • Loki||

    Ugh... Fucking Rod Stewart. Why did I click that link??? WTF was I thinking!?

    *goes into fetal position in corner and rocks back and forth, sobbing*

  • sloopyinca||

    Actually, we can thank the Englishman Russell Watson for that piece of shit.

  • Banjos||

    I finally now know whose balls to punch.

  • Loki||

    In that case fuck Russell Watson too.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I always wished Q would come and give me powers like he did to Will Riker. Of course, I'm not nearly as good a person as Riker, so I woulda abused the hell out of godlike powers.

  • ||

    I'm not nearly as good a person as Riker

    Dude. You are never seeing them now.

    And sloopy: Banjos liked Q too. So you might need to be changing more than just a middle name.

  • sloopyinca||

    Oh, I love Q. But Voyager was just beyond awful. And that goddamn New England aristocratic voice of Janeway causes a reaction in me like an epileptic gets from a strobe light.

    I fucking haaaaaaaaate Voyager. It's just fucking retarded.

  • ||

    Voyager is terrible and Janeway is evil (and annoying). But this is the way of all Trek!

  • Rhywun||

    The one where Janeway WAS evil (like, Nazi evil) was great. Y'all are way too hard on V'ger. What's wrong with being the 4th best ST series...?

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Aside from the many times they went off canon and generally ignored the rules of the universe that had been established over the last several decades, I thought Voyager was good.

    Janeway's captaining style was more by committee than I would like, but I thought she was a fantastic character.

    And you can't tell me you don't like Neelix. How could anyone hate Neelix?

  • sloopyinca||

    And you can't tell me you don't like Neelix. How could anyone hate Neelix?

    Neelix was fine. I had no issues with him. My disgust stems entirely from Janeway's voice.

  • ||

    Neelix was fine. I had no issues with him.

    And I mean, wtf is this? Neelix is horrible! Horrible! Most annoying character EVER! The worst thing about Janeway was that she let him join the crew, and the worst thing about Kes was that she fucked him. I mean he was so goddamn upbeat all the time, not to mention completely illogical. Morale officer?!?!? I would have let Tuvok shove him out the nearest airlock, because you know he wanted to.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    And you can't tell me you don't like Neelix. How could anyone hate Neelix?

    yeah, that part was sarcasm. Neelix is the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek.

  • sloopyinca||

    Neelix was fine by me. Yeah, he was an upbeat douche, but he was also a refugee of sorts and was probably just happy to have a chance at survival. Janeway, on the other hand, was a fuckhead.

  • ||

    Uh, Kate Mulgrew is from Iowa, Ken. Learn to tell a real New England accent from a fake one.

    And anyone who likes Q clearly has a fondness for utterly stupid plot complications. "Hey, lets make an omnipotent character and then 'defeat' him! That makes sense!"

    You people disgust me.

  • ||

    Epi, you're not allowed to talk about Q anymore, but thank you for correcting Ken about New England accents.

  • sloopyinca||

    I know she's not really from New England, which makes it even worse. Think Picard trying to talk with an outrageous fake French accent.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Q is never "defeated". He comes by to fuck with humanity and then leaves when he's satisfied.

    It's like a kid playing with an ant farm. He secretly loves the ants and wants them to do well, but he keeps fucking with them just to see how they'll overcome. It's a fascination, not an enmity.

  • sloopyinca||

    Trying to explain Q to Episiarch is like trying to teach quantum physics to a mongoloid. Don't waste ytour time.

  • ||

    I just don't understand how the failure of the distributive law forms a basis for quantum logic, OK?!?

    (runs off crying)

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    This is my first Star Trek thread on H&R, thanks for the info.

    Q is one of my favorite characters, though. He really is just a big kid with godlike powers.

  • Rhywun||

    You people must not ever have been to New England. Janeway does not have a New England accent.

  • Loki||

    Voyager did have one redeeming quality. Or would that be two?

    Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

  • sloopyinca||

    And we can thank that woman for helping start Obama's political career.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    And we can thank that woman for helping start Obama's political career.

    wait, what? Seriously? I think Jeri Ryan just lost all hotness. Sad day.

  • sloopyinca||

    wait, what? Seriously? I think Jeri Ryan just lost all hotness. Sad day.

    Read it and weep I'm gonna indirectly blame her for everything that's happened the last 5 years.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Yeah, not seeing how it's Jeri's fault. Jack wanted to do the sex clubs, not her. His perversions cost him the race, not Jeri...

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Well, she was an asset to the crew.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    What? Why not?

  • ||

    You think Riker is good?

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I'm not saying the guy was a paragon of all that is good and pure. I mean, the guy slept with more aliens than Kirk all while his Imzadi was there.

    I was mostly referring to the episode where Q gives him the powers and he DOESN'T abuse the fuck out of them.

    That would never happen if I were in his shoes.

  • Banjos||

  • ||

    But in "The Q and the Grey" Janeway gets to wear an awesome gown! And there is Q sex! (Actually I think "Death Wish" is the best one but all the same.)

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, Q's side (the Union) represents individual liberty and the Confederates are the bad guys. And Janeway doesn't care about free will, happily taking the side of the status quo and the strict confines of a hierarchy (even amongst supreme beings like the Q).

    Your love of future space statism is sickening, Nicole. Also, Janeway's voice features prominently in that episode, so no dice.

    I can honestly say that I'd prefer to watch the Wesley/Traveler episodes on endless loop before I watch any Voyager episodes featuring Janeway as more than a background (and silent) participant.

  • ||

    Dude, no. It's my hatred of future space statism that makes me enjoy Voyager. Janeway is the apotheosis of the evils of the Federation. "Death Wish" in particular shows exactly how evil and statist she is compared even to the most communitarian Q ever depicted. I mean I like Q, not her!

  • sloopyinca||

    You have staved off my disgust for another day, Nicole.

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    The only thing voyager had going for it was 7of9. Wait, that's TWO things, if you get my point. Dang. I might have to watch reruns with the volume off, so Janeway's banshee wailing doesn't kill the mood.

  • Virginian||

    Wait I thought the Enterprise was the good guy spaceship?

    You Star Wars fans are confusing.

  • Banjos||

    Star Wars? Was that the movie with the sparkling vampires?

  • Virginian||

    Nah I think that's Dune.

  • $park¥||

    I thought Dune was the one with the giant worms and Kevin Bacon.

  • ||

    Kevin Bacon's name is a killing word?

  • John||

    http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event.....n_Marathon

    They have closed the federal court house in Boston and employees are saying they are preparing the courtroom for some kind of an appearance.

    Perhaps they really have made an arrest.

  • sloopyinca||

    Looks like they've evacuated the courthouse. I guess they didn't have their Jack Ruby in place in time for the arraignment.

  • John||

    Yeah. I can't tell if they evacuated due to a bomb threat or because they have dirtbag number one in for arraignment.

  • sloopyinca||

    Nothing says "fair trial" like a closed hearing.

  • John||

    It would be just the arraignment. Letting the mob shoot the guy doesn't exactly say fair trial either.

  • sloopyinca||

    Alex Jones is typically off his rocker, but I might actually give a bit of credence to their investigative abilities on the Boston bombing.

    BTW, why aren't the media referring to it as the "Boston Massacre" or "Boston Massacre II: Electric Boogaloo" at the least?

  • John||

    Those pictures are all over the internet. Was it Jones who got them? And someone might tell Jones that any clown can buy a cell phone with a head set and push to talk two way communications. Those guys in that pictures look about as "government" as lonewacko.

  • sloopyinca||

    Still, the fact that they weren't watching the race, were constantly communicating with someone, they left their packs just prior to the explosion and they had credentials is gonna get the conspiracy nuts going.

  • John||

    I can tell you this, no way were they any kind of SF or Feds. Retard with the beard is too old and out of shape. The other two are too young.

  • sloopyinca||

    Chuck Schumer just said reciprocity is wrong because the 2A is fine for people in Wyoming but shouldn't be forced on people from NYC in Times Square or Yankee Stadium. And Mike Johanns (R-NE)basically said we need to regulate video games and Hollywood.

    Now Toomey is up on CSPAN2 saying the 2A doesn't apply to all Americans.

  • John||

    Tulpa was on here claiming Toomey is alright and the good he does outweighs the bad. yeah, right.

  • sloopyinca||

    In typical fashion, he was wrong.

  • Hyperion||

    He also thinks that all foreigners pee in their own drinking water. He can be safely ignored.

  • ||

    Now Toomey is up on CSPAN2 saying the 2A doesn't apply to all Americans.

    He's technically correct; it applies to all people.

  • Zeb||

    I'm pretty sure all Americans is a subset of all people.

  • ||

    Haha, good point, I misread my own sentence.

  • sloopyinca||

    Vote going on now for Toomey-Manchin Amendment. Looks like it isn't gonna pass.

    Good. Fuck those assholes.

  • John||

    LOL. That is great. I hope Toomey enjoyed pissing away his political career for a losing amendment.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah I'm pretty sure the NRA has more members in PA then any state besides Texas.

    He really fucked up when he decided to cross them.

  • John||

    Yeah and it is not the like Philadelphia Dem machine will be able to find him a few hundred thousand extra votes. If I were an even remotely well known Republican PA right now, I would be getting ready for the 2016 primary challenge.

  • sloopyinca||

    Am I the only one watching CSPAN2?

  • $park¥||

    Quite possibly the only one in all of America. Try talking to the screen and see what happens.

  • sloopyinca||

    Toomey-Manchin just shit the bed. Next up is the Grassley Amendment. Pat Leahy is saying it hurts law enforcement by "gutting" laws and helps drug cartels.

    I didn't know it reinstituted Fast and Furious.

  • WomSom||

    Sometimes man you gotta smack it good!

    www.AnonHit.tk

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