7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do We Get?

Fox Business host Gerri Willis tallies up the various bailouts and stimulus plans and arrives at a big fat number: $7.66 trillion. That's the aggregate amount spent by the government and Fed to do everything from the Bear Stearns rescue to various levels of quantitative easing to payroll tax "holidays" (that were not offset, of course) to good old Operation Twist (look it up). These things happened under Bush and they happened under Obama and they have precious little to show for themselves:

That's a lot of money and where are we? Nowhere, as far as I can tell. Unemployment is at 7.8%, exactly where it was when President Obama came into office.

The economy is contracting, shrinking, and consumers and taxpayers say they aren't too happy. It's no wonder. All of this money out the door and much of it will have to be paid back. Our economy hasn't recovered. The stimulus spending was a bust!         

Read the whole list and more here.

For Reason's coverage of why stimulus didn't work, go here.

Willis gets a shot in at Paul Krugman at the end: "Next time you hear Paul Krugman say we need more stimulus spending, ask him: where's my $7.66 trillion, mister?"

Krugman's demand for more stimulus always reminds me of Edward G. Robinson's Johnny Rocco in Key Largo and his insatiable need for...more. Take a look (30 seconds):

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  • John||

    Even Mrs. Sudderman is starting to suspect that they may not have told her the whole truth at Wharton. The idea that a bunch of rednecks, Libertarians, and other assorted rabble who went to all of the wrong schools might have been right all along is a possibility just too horrible for her to contemplate right now.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....heory.html

  • John||

    Bonus Brad DeLong sighting explaining how the problem is that people are just saving and paying off their debts and not spending. It is always the hoarders who ruin everything.

  • Virginian||

    Yep. Kulaks, wreckers, and hoarders.

  • NoVAHockey||

    i can't get enough of that hoarders show.

  • Virginian||

    I sure as hell ain't watching the Caps play.

  • NoVAHockey||

    i'm a Pens fan. Watching the Caps stink is some of the best schadenfreude.

  • From the Tundra||

    Your Pens looked pretty good last night. What the hell happened to the Caps? We Western Division fans don't see much of the East until the playoffs

  • NoVAHockey||

    http://www.japersrink.com/2013.....ngth-goals

    I think number 8 is a great talent that either doesn't have a supporting cast he needs and/or refuses to use them.

  • John||

    I think the problem with number 8 is that he made a living just bullying people. And that was great until teams adjusted and he got a bit older. He has never really developed any other skills to compensate. He is still good but no longer one of the best.

  • John||

    The hired a new coach who has a completely different system from Dale Hunter's play defense and never try to score system. With no training camp to get confident with the system, they were completely screwed.

  • NoVAHockey||

    check out the link -- it breaks down Ovie's "move" and how everybody knows he's going to do it.

  • From the Tundra||

    Thanks, NoVA, that is some excellent analysis. Looks like 8 needs to update the repertoire a little.

  • From the Tundra||

    Yeah, wasn't the deal last year to try to get AO to play more defense? I guess that explains the coaching change, but isn't that like three coaches in three years. He needs to get out of there.

  • KDN||

    Adam Oates is a bad coach (trust me, I had to deal with that shitshow of a powerplay he ran for two years in NJ), the league has figured out Ovechkin (who probably needs a change in scenery), and their defense is even more terrible than it used to be.

    The most entertaining team I've seen this year (possibly for the last 3!) is the Isles. They score in bunches, don't play defense, like to scrap, and have John Tavares. You'll always have a fun time watching them.

  • NoVAHockey||

    i'm in NYC next week and picked up tickets to Rangers - Islanders. looking forward to see Tavares.

  • From the Tundra||

    I love it when a hockey thread breaks out during yet another bullshit stimulus discussion. AS far as 8 getting a change of scene, the Wild found a spot for Parise, maybe they could squeeze Ovi in somewhere.

  • NoVAHockey||

    i don't know the particulars of his contract beyond that it was a 13 year deal or similar -- or how the new CBA changes things -- but i just can't see the Caps moving him, even if it's the right thing for the team. just from a marketing standpoint. if a kid is wearing a jersey here, it's #8. he's really grown youth hockey here. which is good and bad. now the rinks get bitchy about post-game drinking in the lobby and in various states of undress

  • KDN||

    Wild found a spot for Parise, maybe they could squeeze Ovi in somewhere.

    With the cap going down next year I find it unlikely; plus I think they'd be more in the market for defense now. I'd go with St. Louis, Dallas, or Nashville if any of them are willing to spend.

  • From the Tundra||

    I was kind of kidding. With the Suter and Parise contracts, it couldn't happen. Defense is actually looking up. Brodin is getting up to speed and there are some young guys in the system that have promise. Biggest problem right now id 2nd and 3rd line scoring.

  • KDN||

    Tavares is a beast. Huge fan, but he was cherry picking a bit too much yesterday (though that picking worked for him when he abused Salvador on his second goal).

    I haven't been in the Garden since the remodel, but I hope you're in the lower bowl. The sight lines upstairs are atrocious; the place is clearly designed for basketball and boxing.

  • John||

    The Isles haven't been good in 20 years. Aren't they moving to Brooklyn?

  • NoVAHockey||

    in 2015 they move to brooklyn

  • John||

    I hear the Nassau Collisium is a real dump. But the Brooklyn arena is a beautiful. I know it was built with the blood of the old neighborhood. But it is a beautiful arena.

  • KDN||

    The Isles haven't been good in 20 years.

    They're a defenseman or three away, but they've got a really good group of prospects and a boatload of cap space. They're basically what the Leafs would have been if they hadn't made the Kessel trade. If the move to Brooklyn can attract some talent (instead of inducing them to bolt back to Slovakia) then they should be a force over the next 5 years.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Watching the Jets-Panthers game last night, I couldn't help but notice the empty seats.
    Why do they try pro hockey in South Florida again?

  • Restoras||

    Why do they try pro hockey in South Florida again?

    They're gettin' a bunch of old geezers down there from the northeast...

  • From the Tundra||

    Marketing to people that move from MN, MI etc, I guess. Panthers have some talent and some good picks coming soon. Too bad they can't draw.

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    It's the preppers. They're the modern day hoarders. Git em.

  • ||

    Wow. Ms. McArdle may be libertarian, but if so she's economically ignorant. Here's the capstone to her piece:

    In short, I'm wondering if
  • ||

    Oh, come one. Let's try this again.

    In short, I'm wondering if rather than being tried and found wanting, Keynesianism hasn't been found impossible and left untried. Whether the amount of stimulus needed to jolt the economy back to trend isn't simply too large to pass political muster. It's hard to see a situation short of total war where that kind of money could be authorized or spent in the requisite period of time.

    So Keynesianism (meaning here only Keynesian SPENDING, never Keynesian SAVING) hasn't been tried, and the best way to do it would be TOTAL WAR. Destruction = growth. Great.

  • Steve G||

    "what do get"?

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

  • nicole||

    Ding ding ding! This is the correct answer.

  • ||

    "This video is unavailable.
    Sorry about that."

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Imagine the Buzzcocks, performing What Do I Get? circa 1981.

  • John||

    What do we get? I think the people who have made the DC housing market as expensive as San Fransisco and New York, got a lot.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    It's an INVESTMENT! We'll get it all back, and more.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    "We have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt." - Vice President Joe Biden

  • Fatty Bolger||

    7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do Get?

    What do get, indeed?

    "We" get re-elected, of course.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    We are the deadbeats we've been waiting for.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    $7.66 trillion is completely bogus.

    Fed LOANS peaked at $1.2 trillion (Bloomberg), TARP (also LOANS) were $700 billion and the Obama stimulus was $500 billion (net of the FICA tax cuts).

  • sloopyinca||

    FTA: That's the aggregate amount spent by the government and Fed to do everything from the Bear Stearns rescue to various levels of quantitative easing to payroll tax "holidays" (that were not offset, of course) to good old Operation Twist (look it up).

    Sorry, but there's more than one way to calculate what the government spends on wasteful bullshit. And it goes back to BOOOOOOSH as well, before you accuse me of being a Team Blue basher.

    You know what? Don't even respond to me. I don't know why I replied to you, but it's easier to keep going now than it would be to delete the post.

  • Invisible Finger||

    If shrike had a shred of brain, he could have at least made the argument along the lines of "Most of QE was sterilized purchases."

    But not only did he not say that, he completely IGNORED QE which is the bulk of the figure!

    The sterilized purchases were actually trading low risk for high risk, and at this point the Fed purchases aren't even sterilized anymore. Of course, the risk assets were such high risk that it actually makes the pure dollar figure more credible even if the reporting of the "pure" number was strictly for shock value.

  • Lord Humungus||

    someone needs to learn how to read the article:

    Let me help your monkey-addled brain:

    Bear Stearns: $29B
    Economic stimulus checks: $178B
    Bush Home Owners bailout: $300B
    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bailout: $400B
    AIG bailout: $42B
    Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (TARP): $700B
    Automakers bailout: $25B
    American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009: $787B
    Obama Home Owners bailout: $275B
    Small business loans: $15B
    Automakers bailout: $22B
    Quantitative Easing I: $1.75T
    Quantitative Easing II: $600B
    Quantitative Easing III: $960B
    Quantitative Easing IV: $1.08T
    Operation Twist: $400B
    Extending Payroll Tax Cut: $100B

  • Pro Libertate||

    And I get? Let me do the math here. . .nothin' and a nothin', carry the nothin'.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    There are many redundancies in that. For instance, TARP money was used for the AIG, auto, and GSE loans.

    And QE is offset by asset purchases. And there is no such thing as the "Obama Home Owners bailout" unless you count a mortgage fraud settlement with the banks.

  • Restoras||

    This sock is in the spin cycle, and spinning furiously.

  • Sevo||

    "And QE is offset by asset purchases."

    Take it back; dirt's smarter.

  • some guy||

    He's got a point about TARP redundancies and asset purchases. He just leaves out the part where those redundancies are only worth a few hundred billion and the "asset purchases" are worth pennies on the dollar.

    How about we compromise on $7 +/- $T0.5 trillion?

  • Professional Target||

    Counterfeiting isn't offset by theft with it? Who knew?

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug| 2.1.13 @ 11:14AM |#
    "$7.66 trillion is completely bogus."

    Dumber than dirt.

  • Professional Target||

    Provider One bids three hundred quatloos for the newcomers!

  • ||

    "Professional target"? HA! Where were you in all the immigration threads yesterday?

  • Pro Libertate||

    We're getting into terraforming Mars territory with that kind of money.

  • some guy||

    The government couldn't even terraform the Middle East for 7.66T$. How is it going to terraform Mars?

    Detroit might actually be doable, though...

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Goddammit, John.

    McCardle is retarded.

    Maybe the sums we need are just too large to get through the political system.

    If only there were some way to get the right people in charge, and turn it all over to them. What a fucking dope.

  • Pro Libertate||

    The fact that the government even has one tenth of the power to steal that kind of money from us and from the future shows how far gone we are from any concept of limited government or individual liberty.

  • John||

    In fairness, they did borrow a lot of it from the Chinese.

  • R C Dean||

    In fairness, they did borrow a lot of it from the Chinese.

    Actually, no. As I have pointed out many, many times, Chinese holdings of our debt have been essentially flat for years.

    Most new Treasury issuances have just been monetized via Fed purchase.

  • $park¥||

    It all started on a cool September day in 1787 when some old man said "Fuck it, this is good enough."

  • Pro Libertate||

    Who knew words could be twisted to such an extent or that we'd tolerate a long coup?

  • $park¥||

    The Shadow knew.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Should've given him a veto.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

    -- Sherman Hemsley

  • Killazontherun||

    Damn, Gorge Jefferson was a genius.

  • $park¥||

    He came up with that because he wanted Bentley to leave him alone.

  • John||

    She is so fucking retarded. And she thinks she is so damned smart. She is a snob of the highest order. She really believes that because she went to Wharton, she is one of the Top Men and fit to rule with the rest. Since she just writes and doesn't do any damage, it is really funny. Watching that train wreck is one of my vices.

  • ||

    Her wiki page says she got her MBA at UoC Booth.

  • John||

    You are correct. She did her undergrad at Penn. But U of C is still top men material.

  • $park¥||

    All of this money out the door and much of it will have to be paid back. Our economy hasn't recovered. The stimulus spending was a bust!

    Well, now that there's rock-solid proof nobody will ever need to try something like this again.

  • sloopyinca||

    7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do Get?

    Another eight years older and deeper in debt?

  • LTC(ret) John||

    +16 tons

  • NoVAHockey||

    one of the bars I frequented an undergrad had karaoke on Thursday nights. this townie would sing that song every week. come in, have his beer, sing the song, and leave. like clockwork.

  • Virginian||

    HAHHAHAHAHA

    16 tons of gold is worth about 780 billion.

    We are soooooooooo fucked.

  • In Time Of War||

    I ain't too good with the maths, but isn't it more around $854 million at today's rate?

  • Virginian||

    You're right. We're even more fucked!!!!

    When truckloads of precious metal can't even begin to pay off a rounding error on your debt, you ARE FUCKED.

  • sarcasmic||

    According to this, $7660 Billion at the current spot price for gold adds up to 285,497,048.12 pounds, or 142,748.524 tons. That's equivalent of a 62 foot tall gold cube, 82% of all the gold ever found, and would require 200 standard shipping containers to transport.

    http://politicalcalculations.b.....Qvv3fItRfJ

  • In Time Of War||

    Wanna know just how fucked we are? If you owned every single ounce of gold mined throughout human history, you could only pay off half the current national debt.

  • Marshall Gill||

    I don't think it would cover even close to half the debt.

  • John||

    Wow.

  • some guy||

    In all fairness, if you owned all the gold you could demand a much higher price for it than the current market price. So you might (maybe) be able to pay off the whole debt. Of course we're on course to replace that debt in about 10 years, so what's the point?

  • sarcasmic||

    Of course we're on course to replace that debt in about 10 years, so what's the point?

    Is it just me or has something similar to Moore's Law been happening with the debt?
    As in it the trend is for each president to double it.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Since gold's value mostly comes from being a medium of exchange, cornering the market might actually render it worthless aside from the much smaller jewelry and industrial uses.

  • SIV||

    16 Tons

    I was going to post Bo Diddley but this one has better video.

  • SIV||

  • sarcasmic||

    That act would be laughed off of American Idol.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    It's more of an "Americas Got Talent" bit

  • sarcasmic||

    true

  • Voros McCracken||

    I was waiting patiently for that one.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "That's a lot of money and where are we? Nowhere, as far as I can tell. Unemployment is at 7.8%, exactly where it was when President Obama came into office."

    Not, I think, anymore.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100426559

  • Pro Libertate||

    Not to mention that the metrics are increasingly questionable. I think we've got a lot more people on the dole and working off the books than previously.

  • John||

    The labor participation rate is the lowest in like 40 years, back when women tended to stay home and raise their kids. This is a depression and has been for four years.

  • Jordan||

    Yeah, this has dragged on so long that even U6 is understated.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Actually it was this low in the early 1980s. Not that that's much better.

    During 2008-2012 it's dropped as far as it rose from 1983 to 1990.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    And all the people in that article are concerned with is that Congress might cut off their stimulus heroin.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I cannot wait until the President goes on record as saying,

    "The business of America is to destroy your business."

    Many years ago, Howard Dean (when he was still at least mostly sane) said of GWB, "He wants to run the country on the Argentine Model."

    I'd welcome something as restrained and sensible as Peronism, at this point.

  • John||

    Many years ago, Howard Dean (when he was still at least mostly sane) said of GWB, "He wants to run the country on the Argentine Model."

    You know back when we had a real deficit problem, when it was a half a trillion dollars.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "I'd welcome something as restrained and sensible as Peronism, at this point."

    I laughed - bitterly - but I did laugh nonetheless.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    In fairness, they did borrow a lot of it from the Chinese.

    The Chinese wised up.

    Bennay is the one keeping us afloat, at this point.

  • John||

    As long as there is cheques in the cheque book.

  • RG||

    I'm not a fancy pants economist, but the concept of an output gap always seemed moronic. Especially since the previous GDP path was driven by debt fueled consumption. Now, we're just shoveling money into the system to prevent deflation.

  • Invisible Finger||

    We're really just shoveling money into the system so the governments can pretend to pay their bills.

  • sloopyinca||

    OT (sorry, but I missed the Am Links): Here's a crazy as fuck story of how a cop can choke three people and only get charged with a misdemeanor but the taxpayers can be put on the hook for $650k.

    Bonus points for holding 4 men for days without charging them with a crime, for having several cops brandish their weapons at men that had done nothing wrong and for the blatant disregard for the safety of the "suspects" by other officers witnessing the crimes by their fellow officers take place.

  • R C Dean||

    It's bad apples all the way down.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I grew up in a house right by the train tracks. I'd have friends over to play Hungry Hungry Hippos and they'd be like "wow, another train!" and I'd be like "what train?"

    See, when you hear the same din every day over and over, you stop noticing it.

    Just a suggestion ... maybe you ought to find another strategy for your activism.

  • John||

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....talks.html

    It makes me sad to say this. But Argentina versus the UK, CRIPPLE FIGHT!!

  • LTC(ret) John||

    The Brits would more be an older, former fighter that can still remember how to do it, but just doesn't have the muscle anymore. The Argies would just be the crazy guy that huffs paint thinner, can't see straight and is malnurished and even if he landed a punch, it probably wouldn't even cause a bruise.

  • John||

    Actually the Argentines were closer to winning the last time than is generally known. The British had killed their aircraft carriers and the Harrier Jump Jets were a sorry substitute against land based fighters. Had the dumb bastards had bombs that actually worked, the British fleet would have gone to the bottom. The Argintines scored all sorts of hits, but were plagued by dud after dud ordnance.

  • Restoras||

    The Argintines...were plagued by dud after dud ordnance

    Well, they did buy from the French.

  • Ice Nine||

    They were "duds" because of fusing issues not because of bomb quality. They set the fuse timing so that they could go in low to increase their survivability against SAMs and FLAK. It was apparently not correct timing (or perhaps impossible to attain the correct combination, I don't know).

  • Ice Nine||

    Actually the Harriers had a kill ratio of 6:1 - primarily due to their A-A missile superiority.

  • John||

    But they didn't have enough of them. The Argentines were able to get through.

  • Restoras||

    I do recall us sending Sidewinders down there in a hurry.

  • Ice Nine||

    It was enough to drop 24 Argie jets and to convince them to avoid A-A combat. Of course they still got some attack birds through. The Argentinian pilots had serious balls. I'm not saying, BTW, that it wasn't touch and go for the Brits. The outcome was close indeed.

  • tarran||

    It's more complicated than that (BTW, every naval officer should study the Falklands war because it's pretty much the only war fought between modern fleets since WW-II).

    The Harriers were superior aircraft at medium altitudes and speeds and had a larger supply of modern munitions.

    The Argentines had aircraft that could fly at higher speeds and higher altitudes, but they had very few Exocets, and needed to put iron bombs on the ships to kill them.

    They tried to lure the British fighters out to fight at higher altitudes and speeds, but the Brits stubbornly refused to take the bait.

    They used their exocets pretty wisely, but essentially ran out of them quickly, and were forced to try high speed low altitude attacks to penetrate the British air defenses. This sort of attack will result in a higher percentage of incidents where bombs fail to go off, because they have insufficient time to arm themselves after release. Thus, they were unable to prevent the British Army from landing on the island.

  • tarran||

    Lacking carriers, and air bases on the island that could support fighters or naval attack aircraft, the Argentine aircraft couldn't loiter over the battle-field effectively ceding control of the air to the Brits.

    The British submarine force bottled up the Argentine surface fleet quite effectively.

    The Argentine Navy was pretty professional but lacked the supplies and munitions needed to fight for long. The Army used conscripts and treated them so badly, that they were an ineffective fighting force.

  • Restoras||

    Question. I was watching a bit of The Iron Lady last night and the dramtaization implied that Maggie herself gave the order to sink the Belgrano. True story or Hollywood BS?

  • John||

    Why was that even a debate? They were at war, that was a warship, lawful kill. What is there to debate about it. Sorry for the crew of the Belgrano. But such are the fortunes of war.

  • Restoras||

    I dunno. I'm not questioning the ethics. I am wondering if Maggie gave the order herself as portrayed or if the sub commander saw a big fat slow surface combatant and let his fish swim.

    Frankly, if I were Maggie I would have sunk everything that came out of the Argentine port.

  • Ice Nine||

    According to Claire Berlinski's Thatcher biography, which I read a few months ago, Maggie gave the order. It should be noted that after the sinking of General Belgrano, no Argentinian Navy vessel left port. That's a good, strategically crucial kill.

  • John||

    How was that? I have always kind of had a thing for Claire.

  • sarcasmic||

    I have always kind of had a thing for Claire.

    As long as she pointed that nose someplace away from my eyes, I'd be all over that.

  • John||

    I don't mind big noses. I never have. She is not a classic beauty. But it is really the whole package. She is just really smart and very sexy.

  • sarcasmic||

    "Aaaauggghh! My eye! My eye!"

  • John||

  • JW||

    She's a tad bit horsey, just from the long and narrow face, but I'd happily hit it.

  • Ice Nine||

    It was OK. A smidge dry and tedious perhaps but, as the only Thatcher bio I've read, very interesting of course just because of the incredible subject.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Brad DeLong publishes a very thought-provoking piece ...

    Unbelievably, it went downhill even from there.

  • MJGreen||

    Yes, "The feds aren't spending ENOUGH!" is thought-provoking in 2013.

  • mr simple||

    Seiously, everyday I do not read Brad DeLong I am smarter because of it.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "That's a lot of money and where are we? Nowhere, as far as I can tell."

    But, but it would have been SOOOOO much worse if we hadn't spent all that money. We were saved from the GREAT DEPRESSION II.

    Just ask the Obamabots, they'll tell you.

    But don't ask them to prove it. Either their heads will explode or they'll pivot into a BUT BOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!! rant.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    The escaping steam of BOOOOOSH! comes from the safety valve that keeps the heads from exploding.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    other officers witnessing the crimes by their fellow officers take place.

    They wanted to do the right thing.

  • sloopyinca||

    This is one of the things that makes me wonder if cops really care about the rights of the public or if they merely care about themselves. Too many times has a cop stood idly by while their partner or another cop beat the shit out of somebody, only coming forward when compelled to due to formerly-unknown video evidence of the crime.

    They don't care about us. It's about keeping the air of invulnerability and intimidation that they want. The public seeing one of them cuff another and stuff him in the back of a cruiser after pummeling an unarmed "civilian" just wouldn't perpetuate that.

  • sarcasmic||

    What do you expect from people who seek out a career in dealing out violence other than violence?

  • sloopyinca||

    Breaking News on Fox right now: Looks like Obama and HHS is backing down on the contraception mandate and will make it up to the individual employers.

    Fuck. I hoped they'd stick to their guns so this could go to the Supreme Court and get slapped down.

  • John||

    Really? Wow. A SCOTUS beat down would have been really fun. But the gnashing of teeth and lamentations going on right now at NOW and Jezebel and such places is really really sweet.

  • T o n y||

    The religious right wins over medical science! Yay freedom!

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "The religious right wins over medical science!"

    I know we are supposed to lay off troll engagement - but this is PEAK DERP.

    Not forcing employers to violate their group's religious or philosophical beliefs and pay for someone's birth control has what to do with science again?

    The science of discontent?

  • $park¥||

    When you wrestle with a pig, all you get is dirty.

  • sloopyinca||

    When you wrestle with a pig, all you get is dirty.

    Funny. When I did it with my ex-wife, I ended up with two kids.

  • Restoras||

    Same thing?

  • mr simple||

  • Sevo||

    "Not forcing employers to violate their group's religious or philosophical beliefs and pay for someone's birth control has what to do with science again?"

    Well, see, it has to do with chemicals and that's all 'science-y' to lame brains.

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    Peak Derp is a myth.

  • tarran||

    Are you angry Tony? Are they tyrannically oppressing you by refusing to submit to your wise enlightened rule?

  • Restoras||

    It's a sock. Socks are incapable of anger.

  • sloopyinca||

    Right, because those objecting to it wanted to outlaw contraception altogether.

    You're a fucking disingenuous cunt, aren't you?

  • John||

    Tony, your tears are just lovely. It makes me so happy to hear your sadness.

  • Jordan||

    Not paying for somebody's birth control is against science?

  • tarran||

    It is. And if one goes against science it gets angry and starts killing ... babies! We must propitiate science with a sacrifice of a virgin!

  • Pro Libertate||

    Slapped down? Because it's a tax?

    I hope the conservatives on the court stay until this idiot is gone. Last thing we need is a wholly megastatist court.

    And yes, I don't much care for the conservative justices, either. But they at least say no on occasion.

  • sarcasmic||

    How can someone have contraception without someone else paying for it?

    They have effectively made all contraception illegal!

    Booooooooooooooosh!

  • SIV||

    We were taking a beating in the War on Women. Maybe this is our Guadacanal.

    [/raep culture]

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Too many times has a cop stood idly by while their partner or another cop beat the shit out of somebody

    Exactly. As long as they refuse to hold their co-workers to any sane level of behavior, and the union fights tooth and claw to keep any member from ever having to face consequences for any act, however outrageous, I will steadfastly hold to my position that THERE ARE NO GOOD COPS.

  • sarcasmic||

    aye

  • robc||

    I wouldnt say NO.

    Every now and then we hear the story of the cop who properly turns in fellow cops and gets fired/demoted for it.

  • Invisible Finger||

    I have a pal on the Chicago PD.

    He tells me with a straight face that he imagines there are some bad cops of the force but he hasn't personally seen any.

    The same guy that also told me he's pissed about how many cops hurt their knees playing football or paintball and then the next day at work they somehow hurt their knees on the job.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The religious right wins over medical science! Yay freedom!

    Even for you, that's...

    exceptional.

  • tarran||

    Tony needs a juice box.,

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I hope the conservatives on the court stay until this idiot is gone.

    You know you're fucked when you have to include, when you kneel down beside you bed at night to say your prayers, a special plea to keep Roberts and Scalia safe from harm.

  • John||

    Yup. And the sad fact is that is where we are. As bad as Roberts and Kennedy are, imagine two more Kegans on the court.

    It is funny. The wise Latina actually has turned out to be better than I expected. But Kegan has been worse. What a worthless government hack she is.

  • Hugh Akston||

    7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do Get?

    Another day older and deeper in debt.

  • sloopyinca||

    Wow, Hugh. That's sooooooooooooooooo original.

    [rolls eyes]
    [shakes head]
    [has smug, satisfied smirk]

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    Saint Peter don't you call I owe my soul to the Fed Reserve.

  • R C Dean||

    OT: Check out the stones on this woman:

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013.....-invaders/

    A short excerpt won't do it justice. Suffice it to say that her story involves three armed home invaders, a roll of duct tape, her gun, with a cameo appearance by her back-up gun.

  • John||

    I bet those guys decide to find a new line of work after they get out of prison.

  • R C Dean||

    Bah. Go to the original story, which is free of unsupported speculation about immigration status:

    http://www.click2houston.com/n.....index.html

  • Cliché Bandit||

    Well after yesterday I would surmise the only salient point for John IS unsupported speculation about immigration status.

  • John||

    Completely. You guessed it there bandit. It is just astounding that you could make such an amazingly creative point. I mean really who would ever think of calling people who even remotely deviate from the Reason party line on immigration racists?

    Did you work hard to think of that? Or did it just come to you like a bolt? it is so rare that we get to hear about the real workings of a rhetorical genius.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    lol...just joined the Dunphy bucket.

    Your inability to rationally discuss immigration and your willingness to "comprise" principles because you believe the reality of them may be difficult has put you firmly in the same camp as MNG Tony and LW. Hell at least Joe was funny. C Ya!

  • John||

    You are dropping the racism card, but I am the one who can't rationally discuss immigration?

    You are so rational about the discussion, you can't help but slander me for being racist in a totally unrelated thread. Not that you project or anything.

    I am sorry you lost the argument and have to resort to slander. The best thing for you at this point would be just to change the subject and move on.

  • John||

    And let me guess, you have no idea what my opinion about immigration is. You just think you do because you assume anyone who bothers to think about the subject must be the racist.

    Lets see, I am sure you are convinced I think that all immigration is bad, I don't. I bet you also think that we should deport all 11 milllion illegals, I don't.

    The fact that I think anyone who wants one should get a ten year green card, at the expiration of which they are given a choice of becoming a citizen or leaving, doesn't even enter your mind does it?

    I am so tired of dogmatic ignorant fucks like you who don't even bother to read the God damned posts or think about what people are saying on here.

    Either take your racist slander back or go fuck yourself and show the world what God damned troll you are.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    *sigh* Ok, so to sart NO I wasn't playing the "racist" card, you inferred that (I would point to to common phrase "guilty conscience" but I am being polite). I pointed out in great detail why it would be wrong to compromise one's principles and you respond with invective. Regardless, your position on immigration is clear from your comments (unless you are admitting to posting comments incongruent with your views, in which case you are a liar and troll, and that is not what I think). You have demonstrated an innate distaste for immigrants coming to this country, your reasoning being that they would vote democrat. This then, in your mind, justifies violating the rights of American citizens and peaceful peoples from other countries. Your arguments are based on a poor understanding of immigration. I pointed out your lack of historical perspective and you responded with:

    I will bet you are a moron who slanders his opponents because you are incapable of making good arguments.


    Tell me again how I have mischaracterized your position?

  • John||

    You have demonstrated an innate distaste for immigrants coming to this country

    No I haven't. That is just not true. How would someone who wants to give Green cards not want immigrants?

    Let me say it to you again. I think anyone who wants one should get a biometric green card that is good for ten years. I would get rid of HB1 and the whole lot of it. If at any time during that ten years, they commit a crime, they lose their card and go home never to return. At the end of the ten years they either go home or become citizens. This would be available to anyone, not just people who come here over the Rio Grande.

    But during that ten years, no access to welfare or any other public services. You come here to work and get your citizenship, end of story. If you can get someone to support you, have fun. But no public support.

    Tell me again how I have mischaracterized your position?

    Since you just ignore what I actually think, I am not sure mischaracterize is the right word.

    Again, you are not interested in having a rational conversation about this subject. You just want to play no true Scottsman and feel smug. Have fun but don't expect anyone to take your seriously about it.

  • John||

    o to sart NO I wasn't playing the "racist" card,

    You just said the only thing I care about is the race of the people involved. Oh that is not pulling the racist card. Whatever. Just admit it, you got caught shooting your mouth off with your ass showing.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Looks like you've lost C. Bandit's friendship, John.

  • sloopyinca||

    three armed home invaders

    You would have thought that with that extra arm, one of them would have gotten the drop on her.

    (Before you correct me, I know.)

  • $park¥||

    (Before you correct me, I know.)

    It's sad when you have to try to head off the pedants and the dummies.

  • JW||

    You dumbass. Clearly, it was the home that was armed.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    with a cameo appearance by her back-up gun.

    I read about that the other day. In my head I could hear Chrissie Matthews asking, "What kind of crazy gun fetishist even needs to own more than one gun?"

  • R C Dean||

    If you only have one, and you need to use it, you will have none, because the cops will take it.

  • T||

    Two is one and one is none.

    That's usually referenced in relation to malf or breakdown, but it still holds.

    That's why I have spares.

  • JW||

    And now there's another dangerous gun out on the street! Nice going mom! /libtard

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    "7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do We Get?"

    The bill.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    "another day older and deeper in debt"

  • John||

    Aren't you going to call him a racist Bandit? That seems to be your MO these days. Or have you run off to hide?

  • Cliché Bandit||

    lol

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Give him credit, he's got a richer slur vocabulary than that. He calls people who want to increase legal immigration xenophobes and nativists.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I know some immigrants who are xenophobes and nativists by Hit and Run standards.

  • sarcasmic||

    Most Mexicans I've met hate black people with a white-hot hatred that makes the Klan look tame.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    It sucks I won't be here for the PM links

    My neighbour walks her girlfriend on a leash
    . What do I tell my kid?

  • John||

    That they like it that way and you shouldn't worry about what other people like?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Well that's what I would say

  • Cliché Bandit||

    you should apply this to your position on immigration of peaceful peoples.

  • John||

    You should try reading posts instead of listening to the voices in your head.

  • mr simple||

    My old man taught me two things: "Mind own business" and "Always cut cards."

  • GILMORE||

    7.66 Trillion Taxpayer Dollars Used For Stimulus And What Do We Get?

    "Fuck You, Thats What You Get"

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