State Secession Petitions: Ticked-Off Americans Want Out

One of the great joys of the Internet age is the voice it gives to myriad people whose opinions previously remained silent, unknown or at least badly misrepresented by whatever sundry politicians and journalists set themselves up as mouthpieces for what the regular folks really want. Unfiltered by those mouthpieces, and speaking through the medium of the White House's petitioning mechanism, what lots of folks very, very unhappy with the result of the election want is take their states out of the union. That's the sort of sentiment that often raises hackles in the United States, though there's nothing inherently unreasonable about it. It's also a sentiment that's almost certain to remain frustrated, at least in the short term. But with thousands (err ... tens of thousands) of Americans signing petitions to make the union rather less united, it's worth considering the top-down policies and fear of D.C. that have these modern-day secessionists so upset.

There's nothing sacred about national borders, of course. And this isn't the first time in recent memory that people dissatisfied with election results have fantasized about redrawing this country's boundaries. Remember those Jesusland vs. United States of Canada maps of the terrible Bush years (that dark interregnum in this country's history when the federal government engaged in undeclared wars overseas, spied on Americans at home and went on a massive spending spree)?

In 2008, before the last national election, 22 percent of Americans voiced support for the idea that "any state or region has the right to 'peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic.'" The results were pretty consistent region to region, too, though more liberals than conservatives favored the idea.

Just looking at the past, it's as near to a sure thing as you'll find outside a John Cusack movie that the borders of the United States will not only move a little or a lot in the centuries to come, but they'll eventually cease to exist and the whole country will end up as a chapter in a history textbook published somewhere in the Greater Hawaiian Empire (come for the conquest, stay for the all-you-can-eat luau).

But that's for the future. What drives today's would-be movers of borders? The petition for Texan secession cites "blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc." and boasts that Texas "maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world."The petition for Oregon complains about "the Federal Govenrment increasing it's size much larger than our Founding Father's intended, and it's abuse of power trumping over the rights of State constitutions, and the forcing of unconstitutional laws over it's own citizens." The Montana petition quotes Benjamin Franklin saying "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." A whole bunch of the petitions quote the Declaration of Independence to the extent that:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

It's hard to argue with those sentiments, though I might quibble with grammar and spelling. There's no doubt that the residents of many states have a bone to pick with the feds, just judging by ballot initiatives passed last week. Colorado and Washington voted to completely legalize marijuana. Alabama, Missouri, Montana and Wyoming voted to block enforcement of the federal Affordable Care Act. Medical marijuana gained new adherents in defiance of federal law, and gay marriage, while not a direct challenge of D.C. policies, was approved by do-it-our-way voters in Maryland, Maine and Washington.

 

In response, the feds are making noises about suing to block the marijuana legalization initiatives, or simply threatening anybody who tries to take them seriously. They aren't even paying attention to the Obamacare initiatives, beyond planning to implement the health care program without the cooperation of a good many state governments. That's a fairly high-handed come-back from a government founded on the idea of federalism, under which the states would be able to set their own policies, so long as they abided by a few basic guidelines. You can see why plenty of Americans might feel a tad ... stampeded by the government in Washington, D.C. They're sufficiently alienated from that political entity to fire a few symbolic warning shots the White House's way via the online petition mechanism.

As it stands this morning, residents of about 20 states, in varying language (and varying degrees of literacy) have created petitions calling on the federal government to permit the secession of their home states. The White House has committed itself to respond to petitions signed by 25,000 people within 30 days. At the very least, the residents of Louisiana and Texas are likely to rate a few quasi-presidential kind words, considering that their secession petitions have been signed by 12,883 and 16,568 people respectively, with lots more time to go.

None of those petitions has a chance of succeeding — right now. But things change. The unassailable central government of today might well be the weak figurehead of a generation or two in the future. Whether or not the people living under the laws passed by that government work to extend its lifespan will depend on how badly it pisses them off between now and then.

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  • Caleb Turberville||

  • Caleb Turberville||

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/n.....ick-cheney

    Oops, correct link. Bonus: James Carville wears a goofy shirt.

  • Sudden||

    A pet peeve of mine that Maher said:

    "What congress gave Bush was the right to go into Iraq with the guns strapped on, not to go in there with guns blazing."

    STFU Maher, Congress doesn't grant rights, and the president doesn't have any "rights" other than those that each individual has. What congress gave the president was powers.

    The fucking misuse of the word "rights" is something that irks me mightily.

  • Paul.||

    From your accidental link.

    Cornel West puts both barrels to Barack Obama: http://www.mrctv.org/videos/co.....ma-pottage

  • kinnath||

    I hereby renew my call for the states comprising the territories of the Louisana purchase to bail out of the union.

  • The Hammer||

    I still say Colorado, Wyoming and Montana should start our own country with an economy based on mountain/weed tourism and oil, and annex Idaho and Washington for port access. And we shall call it Libertopia!

  • kinnath||

    You can eat weed or oil. You need to have a little bit more diversity in your new economy.

  • kinnath||

    can't dammit

  • The Heresiarch||

    You can eat weed. You just have to watch all of the Planet Earth series afterwards.

  • Rights-Minimalist Autocrat||

    They have port access. They can export weed and oil, and import baby seals.

  • The Hammer||

    I said based on, not exclusively consisting of. We'd still have a lot of farms and ranches, and probably even some raw milk dairies. The market would pretty much provide anything anybody was willing to pay for, especially since we would have free trade. Like I said, Libertopia.

  • Zeb||

    Hemp is a major seed crop. You can eat it. I imagine it would get a bit dull, but I think it is pretty healthy; lots of good fats and protein.

  • robc||

    Add in North Dakota for barley production.

  • Rasilio||

    But you can eat cows which they got aplenty in Wyoming and Montana and Nebraska which would be in there too grows quite a bit of wheat.

  • The Hammer||

    Fuck Nebraska. We're not taking any Big Ten states.

  • kinnath||

    As long as I get N Dakota's share of the missles, I can let the Rockie Mtn states go on their way I suppose.

  • CE||

    Or New Somalia.

  • ||

    Why is it when libertarians discuss the idea of what a society should look like, some statist(or a dealer in unlabeled sarcasm, perhaps?) always has to waltz in and liken this dream state to Somalia?

    The statist utopia at least gets some variety e.g. Cuba, USSR, North Korea, etc.

  • MrGuy||

    Somalia is mostly an anarchy, with limited government in certin regions.

    Somalia is as Libertarian as the moon.

  • Paul.||

    bail out of the union

    Oh, they will be.

    Wait, you said "bail out of the union." At first I read it as "bail out the union".

  • Gman||

    States don't need permission to succeed; see the 10th amendment.

    Why wait for your state to get around to it anyway? My money has already succeeded.

    Why wait around for the crash??

    There are several brokerage firms (and fewer banks) that will still allow American clients to open accounts without traveling to the foreign firms office. Many are completely removed from the western worlds unstable banking system. We're talking well capitalized firms operating in very solid, stable currencies in equally solid countries. You could hold your cash there in the local currency, or sometimes have a choice between several currencies, or purchase shares in companies earning their revenue and paying dividends in solid foreign currencies. See swisssolution.webs.com

  • Pro Libertate||

    See also, Independence, Declaration of.

  • Almanian_||

    South Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, the rest of you - your thoughts?

  • Caleb Turberville||

    The Confederacy could have successfully seceded from the Union if they had practiced sound monetary policy.

    That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

  • Almanian_||

    I think you may be right. They were SOOOOOO close...

  • Caleb Turberville||

    We do you mean "close"? They succeeded in seceding, or have you not see the current map of the Southeastern Conference?

  • R C Dean||

    I wonder what would have happened if the Confederacy hadn't been itching to go to war; without firing on Ft. Sumter, etc. What if they had gone the diplomatic route first, tried to negotiate all the issues of disentanglement and secession; how much support for a true war of aggression could Lincoln have drummed up against an "enemy" so apparently determined to be a peaceful neighbor?

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Isn't this the same United States that acted belligerently against the Mexican and Indian nations?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Well, maybe we'll find out with the second round of secessions. I envision a new country, resetting and adding to the original Constitution, then engaging in litigation at the Hague over the use of the name "United States of America." Eventually, the issue will be settled by the new country getting the "U.S." and the remaining states being called, "The Original United States."

  • ||

    U.S. Classic.

  • CE||

    How about The Monroe Republic?

  • MrGuy||

    Diet U.S. ?

  • $park¥||

    How about New United States and United States Classic?

  • $park¥||

    First I'm agreeing with Episiarch, now I'm thinking like Warty. If you guys never hear from me again it will be because I hung myself.

  • ||

    Hanged, you idiot. Hanged. I'm well hung, you're best hanged.

  • Enough About Palin||

    US Zero?

  • CE||

    U.S. Lite. Now with 33 percent fewer states.

  • MrGuy||

    66%

  • OldMexican||

    Re: R C Dean,

    What if they had gone the diplomatic route first, tried to negotiate all the issues of disentanglement and secession...

    Lincold would still want his tariff, RC. He would've invented any other "Gulf of Tonkin" incident if the Ft. Sumter provocation had not succeeded. There was no way he would've allowed the seceded states to leave the union even if these had decided to abolish slavery just to get more international support, especially after Lincoln promised them to allow slavery in the Southern states if they rejoined the Union.

  • R C Dean||

    Sure, Lincoln would have wanted to push it to war, but if the Rebs had resolutely refused to be provoked, would a North that had frikkin' draft riots been willing to go along?

  • Randian||

    Oh jeez, this is the portion of the program where OM makes shit up again.

  • T||

    I think it's pretty well established that Lincoln's primary motivation was to preserve the Union and he could give a rat's patoot what happened to the blacks or with slavery.

    I mean, just judging by what he wrote, anyway. I'm not the Shadow, I don't know what lurked in his heart.

  • Zeb||

    You mean he doesn't have special insight into the minds of people who have been dead for 150 years?

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Randian,

    Oh jeez, this is the portion of the program where OM makes shit up again.

    You're just sayin' that because the shit YOU make up is not as interesting.

  • Stephdumas||

    Good point, we often wondered in Alternate History about what if the General Lee had won the Battle of Gettysburg then we forgot that detail.

    And some Wikis had jumped on the occasion http://althistory.wikia.com/wi.....ted_States

  • CE||

    Any state that wants to secede would probably start with a ballot measure these days. Set the threshold at a 2/3 vote or some such, then let Washington DC explain why they're for self-determination, except in North America.

  • CE||

    See also FATCA, and get those 10K penalty checks pre-filled out.

  • Rick Santorum||

    JESUSLAND *votes for someone whose policies are near identical to Bush's while rabidly denouncing anyone who disagrees as a racist and misogynist*

  • Caleb Turberville||

    See my link above.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Including Montana in "Jesusland" is an error.

    Montana is a parasite state, taking more from the federal treasury each year than it (we) contributes. I suspect there are people in Helena who are aware of this unpleasant little truth, but the vast majority of the GimmeGimmeGimme Party would be very unpleasantly surprised if they found out how much they would have to kick in to male up the slack.

  • Almanian_||

    So which one's the "gimmegimmegimme" party? Cause I thought Team Red and Team Blue were just divisions of that party, just wanting to take slightly different things in slightly different amounts....perhaps I'm mistaken...

  • Whiterun Guard||

    It's the one that's just like the other one, but makes you say Winter Holiday instead of Christmas.

  • R C Dean||

    Why couldn't they be a parasite on Jesusland?

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Theoretically, Jesusland wouldn't put up with that kind of crap.

    In reality, well, you know.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Jesusland would turn the other cheek to a parasite.

  • Paul.||

    Why couldn't they be a parasite on Jesusland?

    The disintegration has to start somewhere. What good is a living constitution without parasites to push the boundaries?

  • Calidissident||

    Don't most of the Southern states get more from the feds than they contribute?

  • MiloMinderbinder||

    With trillion dollar plus deficits, I would think at this point all states are getting back more than they pay in.

  • The Hammer||

    NOT NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA!!!! NEVER NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA!!! THE BLUE MODEL IS TOO PERFECT TO FAIL!!!!

    -Tony.

  • Argumatronic||

    AFAIK, that's mostly got to due with the military installations and the large amount of national interstate relative to the population size. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying that it might not be an issue if Jesusland broke off. Most of the outraged blue-state types who cite that statistic seem to be unaware that some portion of the goods they buy, including food, passed over the flyover states' interstates on its way to their bloated gullets.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    As sure a thing as War, Inc, Runaway Jury, and Martian Child?

    Sign me up.

  • Almanian_||

    "1408" and "Grosse Pointe Blank" FTW.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Wait, I can't tell what you're saying with that post.

    GPB is a mediocre, tepid, nostalgia piece that's widely regarded as a "good movie."

    But as far as I know 1408 is unanimously regarded as a huge piece of crap.

    Are you adding to my list of terribad films or are you trying to refute me with what you consider good films? And if it's the latter why don't you use his actual good films? The ones he did with Savage Steve?

  • kinnath||

    Tapeheads

  • ||

    SAY ANYTING BEST MOVEE EVR!!!!1111111

  • Brett L||

    Sorry, dude. Better Off Dead. Unless you're a female teenage timetraveller from the early 90s.

  • $park¥||

    Buck up little camper, we'll beat this thread together.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Go that way really fast, when something gets in your way... turn.

  • ||

    "Bueller. Bueller. Bueller? Bueller?"

  • Almanian_||

    I'll just let you ponder that for awhile...

  • Whiterun Guard||

    I DON'T KNOW MAN.

    There's so few people that hate Grosse Pointe Blank like I do.

    Well hate is too strong a word. Disregard would be a better one.

  • $park¥||

    You're a handsome devil, what's your name?

  • kinnath||

    Is it a compliment to call her "handsome".

  • JW||

    Have you ever considered that your taste in movies just sucks?

  • Drake||

    I have a nice 4 bedrooom house in Snobberia I'm willing to swap for the equivalent in Jesusland.

  • ||

    Meh. I just voted with my feet.

  • Almanian_||

    Ohhhh - I didn't know you were paraplegic :( I'm so sorry!

  • ||

    Thalidomide baby, you insensitive dolt!! Flipper =/= paralysis.

  • Almanian_||

    bark bark bark!!

    *claps flipopers*

  • Almanian_||

    typing with flippers is HARD

  • The Late P Brooks||

    There's nothing sacred about national borders, of course.

    Now you've done it.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    So which one's the "gimmegimmegimme" party?

    Sorry if you thought I was implying a distinction between the two "legitimate" political parties. They ALL want cake. Free cake.

  • Almanian_||

    COOKIE!

    /gimmegimmegimme Monster

  • Almanian_||

    Mike Church is on about this daily on his radio show (6:00-9:00am daily on The Sirius 125). Not to shill for him, but I'll shill for him - lots of good ideas, has studied history and can cite chater and verse about how secession is just something assumed in the Constitution. Cause, y'know, IT'S NOT A SUICIDE PACT and all.

    It brightens my daily commute to be able to listen to intelligent, informed discussion, rather than all "team" all the time. Plus, I've learned a ton...I highly recommend a listen.

  • $park¥||

    It brightens my daily commute to be able to listen to intelligent, informed discussion, rather than all "team" all the time.

    And then you come on here to get back to reality?

  • Almanian_||

    These are my PEEPS, Sparky.

    My. PEEPS.

  • Jordan||

    Secession would be the best thing to happen to individual liberty in this country in a very long time.

  • T||

    See, this is why I support Texas distilleries and craft brewers. When we finally secede, I don't want to pay import duties on my booze.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    They'll just jack up the price on hops though. I don't think you can grow them in Tejas.

  • Brett L||

    Certain varieties grow okay in Tallahassee. I've helped harvest them. Tallahassee and Houston have the same climate.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Well that looks like the last thing they'll need then. When is this whole thing happening?

  • kinnath||

    Not to worry. New Louisiana will happily establish trade relations with the Republic of Texas. All the agricultural products you need in exchange for natural gas and refined oil products.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    voted to block enforcement of the federal Affordable Care Act.

    In the case of Montana, I'm going to just say, "WRONG."

    If anything, the Montana vote to "prohibit" implementation of the individual mandate was based on the fervent belief that nobody should be forced to pay evil out of state kkkorporations for insurance, when they really have a clearly delineated Constitutional right to FREE UNLIMITED HEALTH CARE.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Why couldn't they be a parasite on Jesusland?

    Those crazy Jesusland ratfuckers believe in self-sufficiency, and stuff. And they approve of kkkorporations, and profits, and PAYING YOUR GODDAM WAY IN THE WORLD, and all manner of mean icky stuff like that.

    Right?

  • T o n y||

    Uh, not if you calculate which states take more federal government money than they pay to it in taxes. Jesusland contains the moochers.

    Don't let facts get in the way of self-congratulatory myths.

  • Drake||

    Or... Snobberia has more retards.

  • ||

    You might consider the possibility that the REASON southern states get a lot of federal tax money is because they have a lot of black people on welfare.

  • ||

    That's just racist and also racist. Did I mention it was racist. And doesn't fit the narrative.

  • $park¥||

    Tony wouldn't consider that because saying that black people are on welfare is RACIST!

  • Calidissident||

    I won't call this comment racist, but it is misleading/inaccurate in that black people being on welfare is far from the only reason many red states get more from the feds than they contribute. States like Alaska, the Dakotas, Montana, Kentucky, and West Virginia are all among the biggest moocher states, and none of them have large black populations. And blue states like California, New York, New Jersey, and Illinois, which have large minority populations, are all among the biggest net "donors" to the feds. And I'm no TEAM BLUE hack btw, I'm just stating the facts

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    States like Alaska, the Dakotas, Montana, Kentucky, and West Virginia are all among the biggest moocher states, and none of them have large black populations. And blue states like California, New York, New Jersey, and Illinois, which have large minority populations, are all among the biggest net "donors" to the feds.

    I'd imagine having a radically high cost of living plays as much of a role in this "net donation" as anything else.

    And let's not leave out New Mexico, an increasingly blue state that would be a glorified sheep ranch without the DoD.

  • T o n y||

    They have a lot of white people on welfare too. Generally, a lot of poor people, relative to blue states. Black people are disproportionately poor, yes. The controversy over that fact, and which side you're on determines whether you're a racist cretin, is whether black people are proportionately more poor because they are less morally or genetically fit, or because they are victims of historical disadvantages.

    Which is entirely beside the point. States aren't red or blue, really. Poorer, more rural areas are red. More densely populated areas are blue. The wealthier, bluer areas fund the government goodies for the Republican-voting Medicare recipients in the poorer, rural parts.

    In short, the entire narrative about self-sufficient conservatives and parasitic liberals is a big fat lie not insignificantly tied to racism.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    The controversy over that fact, [...] is whether black people are proportionately more poor because they are less morally or genetically fit, or because they are victims of historical disadvantages.

    The false dichotomy god has spoken.

    They could be poorer because they were disproportionately targeted by Great Society "social workers" that recruited them into the welfare programs that they historically shunned. Just sayin'.

  • CE||

    No, it's because of farm subsidies and defense contracts and retirees.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

  • T||

    Okay, what's in the middle of Alaska? I get Elmendorf-Richardson there by Anchorage, but what's driving the stats up there in the middle on your posted map?

  • ||

    There's a person on welfare in that area.

  • T||

    Well, one probably is enough to skew the stats for some parts of AK.

  • ||

    I'd much rather we fix the federal government, though fucking the tyranny out of it will take serious state defiance.

  • Spiny Norman||

    Meanwhile, in Los Angeles...

  • Calidissident||

    Ok, I'm eating extra meat today (no pun intended)

  • Brett L||

    2 bacon hotdogs dogs, one covered with mac & cheese, the other with guac and sour cream. Yeah, my guts are gonna hate me, but it was my mouth's turn to be happy.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Meanwhile, in the AM Links...

  • Baal||

    I must take issue with putting *all* of Illinois in Snobberia.
    There's plenty of vague sentiment here for kicking Chicago out.

    More concretely, some communities near Chicago have considered seceding from Cook County:

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/20.....ok-county/

  • Drake||

    If we are going to play the county or district game - then Northwest New Jersey and most of PA would be red.

  • ||

    The lowest portion of Texan counties would be blue.

  • Randian||

    And all of Ohio outside of the cities. Literally, all of it.

  • Drake||

    Same is true of every state.

  • ||

    Snobberia would be a collection of little blue dots immersed in a sea of red, except along the coasts and the Mexican border, if the secession was by county.

  • ||

    1) Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Arizona, Louisiana, the Carolinas, Virginia, Kentucky, and Indiana secede and unite to form the Confederal States of America.

    2) Come up with a cool new flag.

    3) Engage in conflict with the US until the federal government backs down, and a restoration of the Republic can commence.

    /Pipe dream.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Can't we just take all the libertarians and a bunch of extra good looking dumb chicks* and take over Cuba?

    Seems easier, and then we don't have to have all the baggage that is Indiana.

    *We can tell them we're making a movie or something.

  • ||

    Fuck you! Only a libertarian would be disgusting enough to suggest a patriarchal uber-sexist kidnapping of hot babes!*

    *Unless huge tits. Huge tits = Empire.

  • $park¥||

    We'll need "huge" to be clearly defined. Bigger than C? By how much?

  • ||

    D and above is the official benchmark.

  • $park¥||

    Even the floppy, saggy Ds?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    That will be taken care of by the cheap, unregulated health care system.

  • $park¥||

    So masking tape then? Or would you go all out and offer duct tape?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Injections of some sort of horse grade chemical that makes them perky. Possibly administered by child laborers.

  • Calidissident||

    I'll be glad just to have one of the native girls in that scenario

  • Brett L||

    Taking good looking girls to Cuba is probably going to be like bringing a kiddie pool to the lake, but go for it. I, for one, plan to win that race by having a monocle and US passport. That way I can string her along about going to live in Miami with her primas and abuelita.

  • CE||

    How about Bir Tawil?(the only place on Earth with no government):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil

  • ||

    If Cuba is taken over, there would be no need for the dumb chicks. Plenty of hotties there.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Excuse me, why no Florida?

  • ||

    I forgot to include it. Sorry.

    AND Florida.

  • Brett L||

    Fuck the petitions. Let the peasants go hat in hand to their barons asking for fewer beatings. I'll worry about the death of the Republic in the current form when the Constitutional Conventionists manage to get 25 states fully engaged. Our Constitution (or the current reading of it) sucks a little. Having it rewritten by representatives chosen by the legislatures of the 50 states would be the giantest clusterfuck in history. And probably not just ours. I mean, being on the bad side of an Eastern European prince fucked multiplied by the whole US.

  • The Hammer||

    Do seceding states take with them a portion of the national debt?

  • Pro Libertate||

    No, unless the part seceding is the one with the socialism.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Obama won, there is no debt anymore, stupid.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Actually, "Obama won, and we're just discovering that there is, surprisingly, a debt problem."

  • Hyperion||

    It's not a debt problem, it's a revenue problem. It's always a revenue problem. Someone isn't paying their fair share.

  • Pro Libertate||

    First increase taxes. . .a lot. Then, after that doesn't work, make some spending cuts to deal with the immediate fiscal crisis. But never lower the taxes.

  • Almanian_||

    HAHA!! All your state are belong to us

    s/ The Management

  • Hyperion||

    Fuck that map, I don't like it at all. Where the hell is Libertaria? I don't want to live in Snoberria or Jesus Land.

    I demand a re-drawn map with at least one state for Libertarians.

    I vote for TN, or VA. Or maybe North or South Carolina. The Jesus Land folks will need to relocate.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Libertaria will be Key West. That's it.

  • Hyperion||

    That's way too small, prol. Need moar terra.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'm with you, but that's all the statists are willing to give, provided that we allow them to bury a 50 megaton warhead in the island. Just a precaution, they assure me.

  • Brett L||

    Its actually just a staging base so we can beat all the Miamians back to Cuba.

  • Hyperion||

    After that we can invade Uruguay and eventually stage a successful coup to take over Argentina, from where we will engage in unbridled capitalism and hedonism.

    But anywhere is good as long as we can be a contstant source of irritation for the nanny-bots in DC.

  • ||

    Libertarian society would be just like Caligula.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    doomed?

  • T||

    Denied by everyone that there after teh collapse?

  • np||

    It's in Antarctica!
    http://www.theworldgeography.c.....world.html

    6. Grand Duchy of Westarctica
    Size: 1,610,000 km2
    Population: 0, usually
    Ruler: Jon-Lawrence Langer, Grand Duke of Westarctica

    Westarctica is a wild stretch of Western Antarctica, unclaimed until 2001, when an American by the name of Travis McHenry founded it via a supposed loophole in the Antarctic Treaty, a set of agreements regarding how the international community treats Antarctica. Essentially, the Antarctic Treaty prohibits countries from claiming territory in Western Antarctica, but it does not specifically prohibit individuals from doing so. McHenry claimed his territory, then founded a country. As micronational leaders often do, he sent letters to various world governments informing them of this, but was quietly ignored. Antarctica has no native human population, and as such Westarctica has no year-round citizens. However, some research facilities have been stationed there, and the micronation both prints stamps and mints coins, which are available to collectors for purchase. In 2005, McHenry tried to annex both the Balleny Islands and Peter I Island to grow Westarctica, but nobody really took it seriously – the land already belong to New Zealand and Norway, anyways.
  • Stephdumas||

    I spotted a map on Deviantart made by a fan who might be more precise then the prediction made by Igor Panarin
    http://jxl5465.deviantart.com/.....-332251649

    Or this other fantasy map I saw at http://www.alternatehistory.com

  • ||

    December 21st, 2012: The US Government enabled Internet Censorship and the 'Six Strikes' scheme, the government and big corporations shut down popular websites like Youtube, Facebook, eBay and deviantArt.

    January 1st, 2013: Many internet users around the world are unhappy with the New Internet Policies, but the US was worse as American Citizens realized the US Constitution failed to protect their rights and the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution, former presidents and the soldiers who fought for Freedom died for nothing.

    January 2nd: Riots begin to spread across the nation for weeks.

    February 4th: The US Government tries to suppress it by enforcing Martial Law which backfires greatly as several states begins to secede from the Union.

    "Fuck, I can't Tweet now? IT'S REVOLUTIN' TIME!"

  • Brett L||

    I was gonna start a revolution, but I only have Facebook and Twitter friends. Since I can't organize on them, I guess I'll just be a good little peon.

  • ||

    Or this other fantasy map I saw at http://www.alternatehistory.com

    The Holy State of Deseret would include Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada except for Las Vegas, and Arizona except for Phoenix.

  • CE||

    New Hampshire. Still waiting for the Free State Project to file that secession ballot measure, and get serious.

  • Cavpitalist||

    I've lived everywhere. Northwest Arkansas is the best. Problem solved.

    We have a shit-ton of leftists here, but they stay stoned and blissfully ignorant enough that it would be a decade or two before they figured out what had happened. By then, they would all be on the streets dying for lack of subsidized condoms.

  • The_Choctaw||

    Hey, yeah, secession. How'd that work out last time? What? 3% of the population dead? Gotta protect fuckyougotmineism at any cost.

  • Jordan||

    Yeah, you're probably right that TEAM GIMMEDAT would resort to mass murder before they would let anyone escape. The history of the 20th century certainly bears that out.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I doubt there'd be a civil war if a few states seceded now, though there might be some initial violence. Times have changed.

    What I really would like is the threat of secession. That would greatly weaken the federal government right there.

  • ||

    If we're being serious, I agree. Again, if bigger, more outspoken (culturally) states, like Texas and/or Missouri and/or Arizona, fevered up to secessionist sentiments hard enough, I don't see the feds pulling anything violent.

  • Hyperion||

    If TX would secede, that would be one big problem for the feds. I think any attempt to send in the military might become every problematic due to the number of people there who are armed and might not hesitate to shoot back.

    We are very close to one party rule in DC and the feds ruling an entire nation there with a single minded ideaology that half the country strongly opposes is going to result in trouble eventually. Or everyone just calms down and becomes good Euro type socialist serfs.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    If TX would secede, that would be one big problem for the feds. I think any attempt to send in the military might become every problematic due to the number of people there who are armed and might not hesitate to shoot back.

    If there's one area of the country I could see seceding and perhaps even pulling it off, it would be the Texas-Arkansas-Oklahoma region. It would all be contingent on if they could seize and hold the military assets in their states, especially Texas.

  • JW||

    Texas could secede more easily than other states for one reason: they have their own self-contained power grid.

  • Drake||

    More important - the First Calvary Division (active) is based at Fort Hood. Most of them would probably pledge for Texas. The Texas Army National Guard has most of heavy Infantry Division.

    Finding enough troops in the rest of the country willing to fight their way into Texas probably isn't possible.

  • T||

    Something about a rifle and a blade of grass seems apropos here.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, we're going to get a quick preview of that. A sort of mini-scenario if you will, since the Feds will soon be at war with 2 states out west.

    At war with 2 states and others threatening to secede. Interesting times we live in.

  • CE||

    Or read Molon Labe!

  • $park¥||

    I have to believe that the National Guard would go more towards fighting for their home state than for the feds. Also, many people in the armed forces would take the state's side.

  • Hyperion||

    ^this^ Also, you are going to have lots of citizens who were not normally apprehensive of the feds, changing their opinions quickly when the shit hits the fan. The more the feds try to do to take complete control over the states, the more they are going to turn citizens against them.

  • Drake||

    More Texans serve in the U.S. military than any other state. The day after secession, they all go AWOL and head home (those not already stationed in Texas).

  • ||

    Also, you are going to have lots of citizens who were not normally apprehensive of the feds, changing their opinions quickly when the shit hits the fan. The more the feds try to do to take complete control over the states, the more they are going to turn citizens against them.

    I call bullshit Hyperion. John informs me that blowback is just a figment of my imagination.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: The_Choctaw,

    Hey, yeah, secession. How'd that work out last time?

    Pretty good, actually. After secession, the states created a constitutional federal government, had a brief war against the old motherland which was won, and still grew to become the wealthiest and mightiest of countries.

    Or, what secession were you talking about???

  • JW||

    Nothing quite says "fuck you I got mine" like droning 3rd world peasants back to the stone age.

  • RPR2||

    who would fight for Snobberia? OWSers?

  • Hyperion||

    Maryland is the only Snobberia state worth fighting for. The rest are frozen wasteland. And too many commies and gimmes in MD, make it not worth fighting for.

  • Hell's Librarian||

    Yeah MD went from being a state that Lincoln felt compelled to occupy to prevent secession (and easy access to DC by Confederates), to being amongst the statiest of statist fucks. If a state can be considered to be a fuck.

    I had to laugh when I saw the election results. I knew MD would go Dem, but I was surprised by how much. MD has a lot going for it in terms of its geography and geology, but the number of people sucking at the federal govt teat has seriously screwed up the population's common sense.

  • JW||

    MD has a lot going for it in terms of its geography and geology, but the number of people sucking at the federal govt teat has seriously screwed up the population's common sense.

    Hey now, Bal'mer has it's very own special version of retardation. No need to go lumping them in with the Federalitas.

  • Hyperion||

    True, inner city Balmer is like that. Outside of Balmer or Annapolis, it quickly turns red. It is much more like the south than the north. In the case of a breakup of the states, I could see Balmer and Annapolis siding with the proglodytes, and the rest of the state going to a more right wing faction.

  • Drake||

    The fight would be keeping them out.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Libertarian society would be just like Caligula.

    Nonsense. It would be just like The Godfather. MNG told me so.

  • ||

    But ravenous orgies are better. Caligula has that -- the hallmark of the true libertine.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Once NEW SOMALIA is formed and all spending on ROADZ is eliminated, the revenue problem will be well on its way to being solved.

  • califernian||

    I find it kind of astonishing that 78% thought a state should NOT be able to peacefully secede. Wow.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    That seems like the number I would guess gang members feel on other members peacefully seceding.

  • Stephdumas||

    I spotted this clip from 2008 who mentionned Vertmont secessionists http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    And someone suggestion a national anthem for Cascadia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  • Stephdumas||

    Here one more suggested anthem for Cascadia.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  • califernian||

    it's a toss up whether the seceding state would be a saner place than the current states.

  • Rick Santorum||

    Potentially. Chances are, you'd have a very strong conservative evangelical constituency, which would mean that they wouldn't look kindly on things like gay marriage or marijuana decriminalization. On the other hand, you'd probably have a very limited welfare state and business-friendly environment. Without the tax revenue of Uncle Sam, there wouldn't be enough money to fund the military-industrial complex, which would solve a good portion of our domestic problems. You'd probably have a strong focus on a balanced (or near-balanced) budget.

    Likewise, the people there would likely be very traditional and hardworking, so you wouldn't get a bunch of progressive malcontents sneering about DIE CIS SCUM and white privilege, so that alone would be a nice change of pace.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Rick's Scrotum,

    Chances are, you'd have a very strong conservative evangelical constituency, which would mean that they wouldn't look kindly on things like gay marriage or marijuana decriminalization.

    Is that the first thing that comes to your mind when you fill your 1040?

  • T o n y||

    Has there ever been a war in the history of the world that people have taken longer to get over?

  • Hyperion||

    Umm, you mean like, that war thing that has been going on between the Jews and Islam for more than a thousand years? Duh, Tony, you never cease to amaze with your lack of knowledge in just about every department.

    This war we are referring to is not between slavers and freedom lovers. It's between freedom and statist fucks like you who think you can control everything everyone does, unless it's something that you are ok with. Go take your retard pill.

  • ||

    Whoever is doing the Tony character is doing a great job of impersonating someone who has no grasp of history whatsoever, isn't he?

  • Rick Santorum||

    In 2100, Mother Jones will be required reading material.

  • Rick Santorum||

    In public schools, I mean.

  • T||

    Given that I've met Irish dudes still pissed about the Battle of the Boyne, I'm going to have to say yes.

  • Brett L||

    Normans out of Angloland!

  • Brett L||

    More seriously, Muslims were using the loss of the Caliphate at Al Andalus in arguments against Western oppression as recently as a few years ago. I think a half a millennium is as far as anyone can realistically hold a grudge.

  • T||

    Let me live a thousand more years and I'll still have grudges from now. My hate is boundless.

  • Brett L||

    Sure, but your nth-great-grandkids are probably more worried about how they're going to fuck the hotties of the people you hate. Unless you hate the English. There aren't enough hot Englishwomen to really entertain that fantasy.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It's their scarcity that makes them so desirable.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Has there ever been a war in the history of the world that people have taken longer to get over?

    "The violence is settling!"

  • Rick Santorum||

    Three hundred years from now, the last humans will be living in a bomb shelter underneath an irradiated wasteland, and the Germans will still be hearing about the Holocaust.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    The Crusades?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    There's so few people that hate Grosse Pointe Blank like I do.

    "Except for that one guy. I'm definitely going to kill him next time I see him."

  • CE||

    ...22 percent of Americans voiced support for the idea that "any state or region has the right to 'peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic.'

    So 78 percent don't believe in the basic human right of self-government? Do they think people shouldn't be able to divorce an abusive spouse either?

  • Invisible Finger||

    The map would be more accurate if Illinois were red except for Crook County.

  • CE||

    Wouldn't it be cool if California seceded? Could be a win-win for both countries. California gets freed of the net income tax burden they pay to the feds, and the red states have 55 fewer blue electoral votes to worry about.

  • Mr Whipple||

    Too cold to care

    LOLZ

  • Danno||

    No need to worry....2014 Dollar Crisis will create chaos globally which is an excellent time to form new nations.

  • tlapp||

    I like the protest but more realistic is the 10th amendment movement. Marijuana laws will test it as will the objections to Obamacare. Hope it can be expanded to much more.

  • jb4479||

    The map isn't really accurate if you do a county by county breakdown of all the states. I noticed when I looked that most of the all blue states only had a tiny bit of blue concentrated mostly around the large cities.

    As for Wyoming, we seal our borders and watch and laugh as most of the rest of the coutry goes dark.

  • gigarath6||

    People live in Wyoming? Why?

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