The New Yorker: Libertarian Founding Mother Rose Wilder Lane was a Crazy Crank, But Influential!

Judith Thurman has a weird piece in The New Yorker that with the most tenuous of connection continues the game of (unfairly, to the libertarians....) linking Paul Ryan with them. She talks about him and Ayn Rand, then mentions Rose Wilder Lane, who helped ghostwrite her mother Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House on the Prairie series, and then she's off to the races on one of her hobbyhorses, Miss Lane, a Founding Mother of modern American libertarianism with her 1943 classic The Discovery of Freedom: Man's Struggle Against Authority.

Thurman manages to make Lane's political ideas all just seem weird and peculiar, connecting through her limited choice of details Lane's belief in individual rights, limited government, and the fecund powers of liberated human energy as arising from her "tragic" life, with "suicidal depressions" and a baby dead in infancy, her "left wing idealism" eventually dying, inclined to want to murder presidents. And:

Old friends were dismayed by her increasingly erratic militance. One of them described her as “floating between sanity and a bedlam of hates.”

Thurman's just reporting the facts, man. (Sort of; see a big fact error, even beyond these tasteless character assassinations, below.) For a truer sense of the thinking and mentality and character and often very bright and cheerful personality of this woman who Thurman paints as merely depressed and hateful (why else be a libertarian?), I suggest reading her collection of letters exchanged with industrialist Jasper Crane, The Lady and the Tycoon.

Thurman engages in typical misrepresentation of Rand, I have to assume deliberately, with this nasty aside:

Lane and Rand exchanged collegial letters for a while in the late nineteen-forties and early nineteen-fifties. But when Lane invoked the Biblical imperative to “love thy neighbor as thyself,” and protested that “without some form of mutual coöperation, it is literally impossible for one person on this planet to survive,” Rand “tore apart [her] logic” and denounced it as collectivist heresy. That sort of impulse, she concluded (to help your neighbor save his burning house, for example) led inexorably “to the New Deal.”

That sounded insane to me, the "to help your neighbor save his burning house" part, so I checked the letter Thurman must have been referring to, reprinted on page 345 of The Letters of Ayn Rand, in which Rand says to Lane: "Take your own example--about rushing to put out the fire in a neighbor's house. You may (and would) certainly do that--if your own house is not on fire at the same time."

Reads a little differently than the implication of Thurman's parenthetical, doesn't it?

As Thurman ends:

as Lane suggested rather plaintively in her argument with Rand, the pioneers would have perished (in greater numbers than they did) had they embraced the philosophy of every man for himself.

Of course, Lane and Rand's philosophy was not at all of "every man for himself" but of every man in social cooperation that does not depend on one man using violence and force to get what he wants from the other.

But that doesn't sound bad enough to make the reader walk away thinking he hates Paul Ryan (and libertarians) just a little bit more than when he started, so it wouldn't be appropriate for Thurman's purposes.

Thurman should know better, a bit; she wrote a much more nuanced take on Lane, Little House, and libertarianism back in 2009, also for The New Yorker. I blogged about it here, and said:

Judith Thurman in the current New Yorker, in an article largely (and curiously) hooked off a now-16-year-old book, The Ghost in the Little House: A Life of Rose Wilder Lane, by William Holtz, uncovers what seemed (to anyone unfamiliar with modern libertarianism's history) like a fascinating and somewhat dark secret: that the hugely popular and influential Little House books were highly influenced, edited, maybe even "ghostwritten" to a significant extent, by Laura Ingalls Wilder's radical libertarian daughter and fellow novelist, Rose Wilder Lane....Rose Wilder Lane could certainly have set Ms. Thurman straight on her absurd assertion that the current crisis is one of laissez-faire capitalism. 

The famously fact-checked magazine also mistakenly claims that Roger MacBride, Lane's heir (though no blood relation), was the Libertarian Party's first presidential candidate in 1976; not so, he was their second. The first one was John Hospers, in 1972.

What MacBride did do in 1972 for the LP, which would have been an interesting story for the New Yorker reader, was cast in his role as Virginia elector the first electoral vote in American history for a woman, the LP's female VP pick Theodora (Tonie) Nathan.

I wrote in Reason back in 2005 about the third woman in the trinity of great libertarian heroines who arose in 1943, Isabel Paterson; the article has bits on Lane as well. Here's me on the similarities between the two and their 1943 political treatises (Paterson's was God of the Machine):

Lane and Paterson not only wrote very similar books; they had very similar lives. Both began as American frontier girls; both had troubled relations with their parents. Both married young and quickly lost track of their husbands; both were popular novelists turned political philosophers; both grew into eccentric rural dotages, refusing Social Security and communicating with only a small, select circle of ideologically congenial confreres. 

Lane and Paterson both seemed glad enough to see their husbands disapper..... Lane had many intimate friendships, involving long-term travel and living arrangements, with other women; Paterson remained a proud exemplar of the Virginia Wolff dream of a woman with a Room of Her Own--in Paterson's case, one she built herself, both literally and figuratively.

Although libertarianism as a modern American ideology and movement was born largely from the work of Paterson, Lane, and Rand, women have tended not to play a large role in continuing the tradition....Why haven't women figured more prominently in the libertarian movement during the past few decades? All three of these women would reject the question's premise. They came to their conclusions and their careers as unique individuals, not as women, they would insist. They were individual--and individualist--phenomena, not examples of a type. These were not conventional women. None was concerned with specifically "feminine" issues, which helps explain why Paterson, Lane, and Rand have not attracted much attention from contemporary feminist scholars.

Lane's story is told at length in my 2007 book Radicals for Capitalism: A Freewheeling History of the Modern American Libertarian Movement.

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  • wef||

    I do not understand why reasonoid writers feel obliged to keep commenting - and legitimizing - what are the strained contortions of the power-worshiping, lickspittle lewinsky press.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Because if there's no one explaining why and how these articles are strained contortions, then some people might get the idea that they aren't.

  • Hyperion||

    Agreed. Who is going to inform people of their lies if we don't do it ourselves?

  • Pound. Head. On. Desk.||

    Agreed. Who is going to inform people of their lies if we don't do it ourselves?

    I sure appreciate it. I came to Reason Magazine through Objectivism. If someone goes after Rand, I can either defend her work or not, according to her actual words. For Paterson or Lane, since finding out they exist, I've been raising a family and running a business. I sorely need this sort of coverage.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, what I need to say is that ignoring lies, ignoring facts, that is what progressives do, because they have nothing else. And in fact, they have to lie, deflect, and obfuscate, because their message is a lie. In contrast, Libertarians, we inform, we educate, we bring the issues into the light so that everyone can see them. We call a lie a lie, and the truth the truth. We have what the progressives can never have. We are right, and we really believe that, in fact, we know it.

  • wareagle||

    I used to ask the "why" question, but the past four years have convinced that the nuclear levels of stupid whose votes impact my life need whatever education can be provided. Lessons are learned and habits are engrained through repetition; it takes repetition to unlearn and break them.

  • Rich||

    I have difficulty with the (pervasive) "I just feel my way is better, so we'll have to agree to disagree." Any practical suggestions?

  • JW||

    Any practical suggestions?

    Yes. Don't waste your time.

  • Christina||

    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

    That being said, sometimes when my friends are receptive to discussion I start with first principles that we agree on and work from there.

  • JW||

    You can lead people to facts, but you can't force them to avail themselves of them.

    With Obama, I'm ignoring all of the stupid partisan bullshit that usually comes up. Here's the list of atrocities that your candidate has committed, all with corroborating links. Still feel like you're not voting for the lesser evil?

    I don't think I can persuade a single person to not vote for the Big Zero, but I want them to feel dirty pulling the lever.

  • AlmightyJB||

    And then you always get the, "well the other team did this & that response". Facepalm. It's funny though to see the perplexed look when I say yeah I agree those guys are horrible as well. Their expecting a red/blue fight and don't know how to go forward without it.

  • JW||

    Yep. If it's not a binary choice, ERROR ERROR.

    I concluded a brief conversation laid out like yours above with "So, then you've made your choice: still evil. Have a nice day."

    3rd parties aren't viable choices, I'm told. The store they've always shopped at just stocks shitty rotten meat, so they have no choice but to buy it, instead of going to the grocer next door with his fresh foods.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I find it interesting that the left has gone from accusing republicans of being racist to being libertarians. Maybe it's because they think that hating the state is worse than hating minorities.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    It's because libertarians hate both the state and are racists.

    Duh.

  • wef||

    Those few idiots who might be persuaded, are not reading anything at reason.com - to engage these lewinskies is to waste your time but worse grant them respect.

    The bs artists at the newyorker, nytimes, etcetera don't give the pissants at reason a thought, but the reasonoids sometime act like lilliputians puffing out their chests and squeeking "oh yeah!" at gullivers in the "mainstream" power-worshiping chorus.

  • Anacreon||

    I enjoy pulling a good point from HR and emailing it to one of my lefty friends. If he doesn't respond I know he is angry that he cannot counter my argument. Eventually he will come around, perhaps.

  • Question of Auban||

    After reading an article like this some might get curious as to what libertarianism actually is - it is therefore useful for libertarian organizations to have articles like this.

  • JW||

    some might get curious as to what libertarianism actually is

    Most, the sycophantic partisan mouth breathers, won't. Maybe a couple will, but they're the notable exceptions.

    Too many times I've left laying on the table, "Since you clearly don't know anything about libertarianism that didn't come from uninformed lefty screeds, would like to ask me questions about what it's really about?" Crickets.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    They don't want to know what it's really about. They'd rather believe in their strawman.

  • JW||

    Pretty much. Comfort is in their political faith.

  • Virginian||

    None was concerned with specifically "feminine" issues, which helps explain why Paterson, Lane, and Rand have not attracted much attention from contemporary feminist scholars.

    Or perhaps the important thing for feminists is not "feminine" issues, but how dedicated a feminist is to a leftist orthodoxy.

    If Rand had wrote a ponderous novel detailing the decline and collapse of an individualist society, calling for total Communism as the only moral way, then everyone in America would read her in school as a great literary mind.

  • Christina||

    Because of its reputation for being long and boring I avoided Atlas Shrugged for years. Then my sister started reading it and convinced me to try it too. I already had a copy on my bookshelf (how it got there, I have no idea), so I started reading it. The biggest surprise to me was how strong of a woman Dagny Taggert is and how I had never heard anyone anywhere say that. She is by far the most fearless, independent, self-assured, sexually-free female protagonist I have ever come across in fiction. My sister and I kept remarking to each other that she says and does everything right.

    So why don't feminists embrace her? She's clearly ticked all the boxes of Feminist Success. The only answer that I can come up with is that she doesn't require the government to help her solve her problems. She is therefore completely ignored. Any liberal criticism of AS I ever read acts as if the book is about John Galt, when in my mind, the book is about Dagny Taggert.

  • silent v||

    I don't remember if this applies to Dagny specifically, it has been so long that all of her novels kind of blend together for me, but there are a lot of sexually submissive women in Rand's novels.

    With the way that feminists are tying themselves in knots (ha!) to explain away the success of 50 shades, they seem really uncomfortable with the this idea and see it as antithetical to feminism.

  • Virginian||

    The feminist's hand wringing concern with sex and how it relates to politics goes far beyond any bible thumper I've ever met. And the idea that one's personal sexual preference should determine one's political alignment is one of the more idiotic things ever postulated.

    Personally, I'm into the BDSM thing, and very much a D. One of my exes was a very left wing feminist who had a lot of trouble wrestling with her dearly held political beliefs conflicting with her deeply felt sexual needs. Getting her to realize that the things that turned her on didn't have to inform her politics took a long time, because she'd been indoctrinated that "the personal is political". It's a really disgusting little idea, in my opinion. The personal is personal, I always say.

  • wareagle||

    unless I mistaken, isn't the submissive the one with the power?

  • Coeus||

    You are indeed mistaken. That is another feminist rationalization. Any sub who tries to manage it too much ends up not getting what they want from it in the first place.

  • ||

    I think you're confusing "submissive" with "passive-aggressive".

  • Christina||

    I remember vaguely someone in a tv show or something saying that people crave in bed the opposite of what they have in real life. So the railroad executive who spends her whole day bossing people around likes to be submissive when having sex. Big whoop.

    I'm one of the chattiest-cathys (cathies?) with the dirtiest mind (and mouth) you'd ever want to meet. Good luck getting me to say anything while fucking. I think if I said in bed, "do me big daddy, yeah, I'm a nasty whore," my husband would die of shock on the spot.

  • JW||

    Yes, yes, go on.

  • Christina||

    I think my issue with talking in bed stems from watching too much porn. It just feels fake and forced, ya know? Plus I think I would giggle too much while talking dirty.

  • JW||

    I once had a rendezvous with a woman who loved to talk dirty and had it down pat. When she did it, it was actually much better than any porno. When she insisted that I try, yeah, it was like that episode of Seinfeld.

  • RBS||

    "You mean the panties your mother laid out for you?"

  • Ted S.||

    Try it and report back to us on what happened. :-)

  • mad libertarian guy||

    If my wife said that to me I'd start laughing, and give her the "what the fuck?" face.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah, Dagny was the primary protagonist, and main character or the book. Galt wasn't in the top half dozen. Personally, I think the book would have been better if Galt had died some time after leaving 20th century motors, and Dagny had discovered his truths as a type of Saul of Tarsus.

  • wareagle||

    So why don't feminists embrace her?

    because feminism is rooted in victimhood and the demand for govt programs to rectify perceived inequalities. The character is not asking govt to do for her; if anything, she debunks the core of feminism.

  • ||

    Agreed, as with most victims of society, true freedom isn't what they seek. They want retribution for perceived wrongs. They want payback, not equality.

  • Christina||

    I have a very dear friend who is terrible with men. She has, since we were but wee tweens, always gone out with domineering douchebags who were horrible to her.

    I'll never forget when she was engaged to her now-ex-husband she was also attending college and taking a Women's Studies class. At the time bunch of us girls were getting together on a monthly basis for dinner, and so we were keeping up with each other pretty well (this was pre-social networking). We all knew, because she told us, that her fiance was terrible to her. He wouldn't have sex with her unless she was dressed in full-on teddy-garters-stockings-platform heels. He wouldn't go down on her, but would force her head down so she would suck him off. He made her do EVERYTHING around the house, including pouring his breakfast cereal. She paid all the bills with her meager Admin Assistant wage, because he was spending $400+ a month on tricking out his fancy Mustang (this is over and above car payment and insurance), and every other dollar he made as some high-paid computer guy on computer hardware and games, DVDs and music.

  • Christina||

    Cont:

    So one girls' night we're chatting about this, that, and the other and my friend starts gushing about her fascinating Women's Studies class. Did we know that (I swear I'm not making any of this up) Cuba is so advanced that they have LAWS mandating that husbands and wives share household chores equally? We should have that here in the US!

    Well, I went OFF about how that was the most ridiculous thing I had ever heard. How would such a law even be enforced? What? Do you call the cops and say, my husband left his socks on the floor come and arrest him? I said, if you can't work that shit out between you, you have problems no police force can fix. That shut her up. But she stuck with the douchebag another few years. Then on Valentine's Day, 4 months after their son was born, he dumped her for a 19 year-old.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    So the lesson is I'm single because I'm too nice?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Pretty much.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I disagree. No one is single because they are a genuinely nice guy. But many guys are confused as to what 'nice' is.

    Following around a woman like a puppy dog whilst d-bags treat her like shit pining away as a sob sister isn't being nice. It's being cowardly.

    Not that I'm talking about PantsFan. He's single because he's a cheetos eating, mom's basement living, gun hoarding, stereotypical libertarian.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Mom lives with me, got it?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Mom lives with me, got it?

    Alright Norman.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    ^This.^

    Also, most "nice" guys in that mold lack confidence in themselves. Being an indecisive pussy with self-esteem issues is going to be a dealbreaker for just about any girl, and rightly so.

    Note: the opposite of being a pussy is not tuffgai posing or stupidity.

  • Coeus||

    Note: the opposite of being a pussy is not tuffgai posing or stupidity.

    No, it's not. But with the dumb ones, it'll work in a pinch.

  • Brandybuck||

    Not every "nice guy" is the passive aggressive jerk, but just using that term will get a guy blackballed because all woman think that's what it is.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Don't put the pussy on a pedistal.

  • Christina||

    I don't know why you're single. But I can tell you that Mr. Douchebag was/is HIDEOUS to look at but a very charming guy.

    I remember when she was first dating him and she showed me his picture. I was dumbfounded by his ugliness and responded, "I like the pants he's wearing."

  • General Butt Naked||

    Thing is, your friend sounds pretty damaged, forgive me if I am mistaken. So why should she get a good man when there are other good women out there more deserving.

  • Christina||

    Oh, she's hella damaged. But, she's gorgeous. And as has been discussed on HitampersandRun before, beautiful women are stupid and/or crazy, but men don't really give a shit because it HURTS SO GOOD.

  • ||

    beautiful women are stupid and/or crazy

    My wife believes it's because they've gotten by on their good looks rather than actually needing to make something of themselves. I agree. With a few exceptions, the beautiful people from high school grew up to be pretty unexceptional. We ugly nerds had something to prove.

  • Anacreon||

    True Dat.

  • JW||

    How to stand not being with that stunningly beautiful woman: Some guy, somewhere, is putting up with her unending bullshit.

    You've described sooooo many women that I've known. The men that treat them the worst were the ones they couldn't live without. It's fucking twisted, speaking as a reasonably nice guy.

    HampsersandR seems to have collected the only sane and well-adjusted women in existence.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    and they're taken.

  • JW||

    Noticed that, have you?

    I used to think they were mythical, like unicorns.

  • Brandybuck||

    Who, unattached libertarian women? Yes they are mythical.

  • sasob||

    Basicly, women love bastards; they're more exciting to them. Nice guys are dull and only good for paying the bills or doing the handyman jobs.

  • Copernicus||

    Christina: "I'm one of the chattiest-cathys (cathies?) "

    Do tell

  • Xenocles||

    Sucks for her, but all the signs were there for her to read.

  • Sam Grove||

    Then on Valentine's Day, 4 months after their son was born, he dumped her for a 19 year-old.

    She should have introduced him to a 19 year-old much sooner.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    because feminism is rooted in victimhood and the demand for govt programs to rectify perceived inequalities. The character is not asking govt to do for her; if anything, she debunks the core of feminism.

    This.

    It also adequately explains why so-called feminists simply can't bring themselves to call someone like Sarah Palin a feminist despite her being well educated, having had a power job, children and the rest of the shebang.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Edward Bellamy did just that, and is looked upon fondly in most literary/academic circles (of course).

  • Christina||

    I grew up as a huge fan of the Little House books (NOT the show; I've never even seen an episode). I think I've read some of them as many as ten times, and I can't wait 'til my kids are old enough to read them.

    When Laura agrees to marry Almanzo in These Happy Golden Years she makes explicitly clear that she will not promise to obey him in her vows. I was struck by that and many years later when I was enfianced I mentioned to my mother-in-law that I would not promise to obey. She was shocked. She had promised to obey. Doesn't everyone? I was, in turn, shocked that this woman who got married at the height of the hippie era had participated in a marriage ceremony that was less feminist than Laura Ingalls Wilder's frontier wedding almost 100 years prior. Now I'm wondering if that tidbit was true, or just something Rose added to influence the many young girls who would read the book. Because it sure worked with me.

  • General Butt Naked||

    But you must obey your HUSBAND, God commands it.

    It's right there in the CONSTITUTION:

    Ephesians 5:22, Married women, submit to your own husbands as if to the Lord...

    That's what's WRONG with this country: a bunch of HIPPIES doing whatever they want. When your king NOBAMA puts you in a FEMA CAMP you'll be sorry you didn't heed GOD's warnings and COMMANDS!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Other parts of the New Testament (including the preceding verse) stipulate that Christians are to submit to one another -- making any specific or extraordinary obedience on the part of a woman to her husband extra-Biblical at best, and an anti-Biblical for odious social control, at worst.

    Unsurprisingly, clergy and laity alike took to the erroneous interpretation that justified what they already thought.

  • General Butt Naked||

    If true, then I would like a fellow Christian to make me a fucking sandwich. And no miracle whip either, asshole. That shit is the devil's work.

  • sticks||

    Fuck mircale whip. DUKES MAYO all the way.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I put only the best on my sandwiches -- artisanal mayo from Williamsburg.

  • sticks||

    "artisanal mayo "

    what is wrong with america?!

    p.s. I like that whatever spell check is on my end tried to make it "partisan mayo".

  • General Butt Naked||

    Here you go, sticks. A guy named sloopy who posts on here turned everybody on to this stuff. I don't have any use for this junk, but to each his own, eh?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    They have a website, now? With products you can buy for effin' $8/pop?!

    Maybe we shouldn't have given up on the forced sterilization thingee so soon.

  • General Butt Naked||

    8 bucks is for the fucking sample jars. A real deal jar of mayo is like $18.

    'tha fuck outta here...

  • ||

    I'll stick with Miracle Whip.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I use Ranch dressing in place of mayo. I have never been let down.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Reminds of a something I once heard:

    How do you get a girl from Pittsburgh to go down on you?

    Cover your dick in ranch dressing.

  • sticks||

    How do you get a girl from Pittsburgh to go down on you?

    Cover your dick in ranch dressing.

    No comment. Just admiring.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Actually the best mayo is mayo you make yourself. It's pretty freakin' look it up.

  • AlmightyJB||

    freakin' easy to make

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    That's the "do unto others" spirit!

  • General Butt Naked||

    I'm a very giving person.

    As in orders, I like to give orders. "Make me a sandwich", for example.

  • robc||

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Ephesians 5:22, Married women, submit to your own husbands as if to the Lord...

    Compare with verse 25:

    Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

    She submits you, you die for her. Who has the better side of this deal?

  • mike c.||

    My wife didn't vow to obey either. I suggested "put out" instead, but that didn't make it into the ceremony.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Sometimes when I'm fighting with my wife I'll "remind" her that she promised to obey and that she's in violation of her vows. And then she reminds me that she never did any such thing.

    It's become an inside joke that defuses our conflicts.

  • Generic Stranger||

    "I mean, I'm the one she swore to love,
    honor and obey."

    "Listen...She swore to obey?"

    "Well, no, not...But that's just my point! You she obeys!
    She obeys you! There's obeying going on
    right under my nose!"

  • wareagle||

    the series wasn't so bad. What can I say; my ex- had a thing for Michael Landon. As I recall, the Laura/Almanzo relationship was pretty equal footing. The female character was not one to be pushed, she called bullshit when necessary, and he called it on her, too. In the context of the times, the couple seemed way ahead of its time.

  • Lisa||

    I thought about the whole traditional 'wives submit to your husbands' thing before I recently got married and I came to agree with it even though I am one of the most independent women I know. It follows logically from the premise that a marriage is a unit and that we both make sacrifices for the good of the unit. Combine that with the simple fact that, by and large, a man has to learn and understand things on his own and make his own mistakes and it therefore is very rational for a woman to defer to her husband when there is disagreement. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, but as soon as I realize that my husband thinks differently from me...I try to give up my position. It's interesting, at least half the time he will change his mind to my position on his own. I'm perfectly ok with that because it happened without an argument. It's more efficient and it keeps me from being a harpy.

  • ||

    There is something wrong with you, Lisa. Seriously.

  • sasob||

    She was shocked. She had promised to obey. Doesn't everyone?

    Well of course, they do - but how many of them take it seriously and actually keep their vow?

  • sticks||

    Totally OT:
    I'll probably post this in the am links too but anyone interested in a fantasy soccer league is welcome to join. Scoring starts 2nd game week(aug 25). Head to head with no knock out rounds.

    http://fantasy.premierleague.com
    league code: 1820944-388444

  • Christina||

    OK, one more and then I HAVE to put my kids to bed (goddamn it's late for them).

    One of my other favorite fiction authors is Louisa May Alcott. Indeed, my daughter, Louisa, was named for her. She was amazingly independent for her time and never married.

    What do ALL these women (Rand, Wilder, Lane, Alcott) have in common? Highly principled and highly engaged fathers. Dads who had daughters and treated them (intellectually) like sons. Alcott's dad kept journals of his children's childhood progress (he was such a dedicated Transcendentalist), and later when Louisa kept her own journals, her parents would read them and write notes in the margin, etc.

    This is all preamble for my primary point, which is, girls are highly influenced by the care and attention they receive from their fathers. It is the primary model for all their relationships with men going forward, and later the rest of the world (which is arguably still dominated by men). To the extent their fathers see them as smart, capable, and worthy of respect is the extent to to which those girls see themselves as smart, capable, and worthy of respect.

    So, in conclusion, I exhort all you guys to be great dads. It's the best way to keep your daughters from turning into statists.

  • Sevo||

    The picking of the nit (or not)

    Christina| 8.17.12 @ 8:53PM |#
    ..."What do ALL these women (Rand, Wilder, Lane, Alcott) have in common? Highly principled and highly engaged fathers. Dads who had daughters and treated them (intellectually) like sons."

    You sure the fathers didn't just treat the offspring as humans, rather than sons?
    Any comment on how the mothers dealt with this?

  • Christina||

    I like the way you think Sevo. Sure, they were treated as humans. But let's be real here, none of these women grew up in a time in which men were expected to be engaged fathers at all, let alone attentive to girl children. In ALL cases (Paterson I don't know) they were families without sons, so these dads bestowed all their attention, by default, on their daughters.

    As to the mothers, I believe all were good, even great, moms. But I'm pretty sure that in all cases these women felt emotionally and intellectually closer to their fathers.

  • Sevo||

    Christina| 8.17.12 @ 10:00PM |#
    ..."But let's be real here, none of these women grew up in a time in which men were expected to be engaged fathers at all, let alone attentive to girl children."
    Just for the hell of it, I just did a (Wiki) look at Margaret Sanger; anecdote, but she doesn't follow the pattern.
    Regardless, it's fortunate that 'expected' /= 'constant'.

    "In ALL cases (Paterson I don't know) they were families without sons, so these dads bestowed all their attention, by default, on their daughters."
    Again, anecdote; not clear in the case of Sanger.

  • Christina||

    Margaret Sanger's dad was a very strident atheist and social activist for women's suffrage and free, coed public education.

    Also, I'd like to point out (since this seems to be a little-known fact) that Margaret Sanger never advocated abortion. She started PP so that women wouldn't have to get abortions.

  • Sevo||

    Christina| 8.17.12 @ 10:37PM |#
    "Margaret Sanger's dad was a very strident atheist and social activist for women's suffrage and free, coed public education."
    Well, the 'free ed' didn't quite work out. But he did father (and his spouse 'mothered') 11 kids. So I'm not sure he qualifies as the 'father who doted on daughter'.

    "Also, I'd like to point out (since this seems to be a little-known fact) that Margaret Sanger never advocated abortion. She started PP so that women wouldn't have to get abortions."
    Sounds like a good position to take.

  • Christina||

    Hey, my dad had 13 kids (9 girls, 4 boys), and I was doted on. It can be done.

  • wareagle||

    but didn't Sanger favor eugenics? Or at least think it was not a totally bad thing?

  • Sevo||

    wareagle| 8.17.12 @ 10:55PM |#
    "but didn't Sanger favor eugenics? Or at least think it was not a totally bad thing?"
    And according to Wiki, phrenology.
    But as far as I'm concerned, you have to make allowances for the state of knowledge. Much as those X-years down the road will laugh at the enviro-whakos as we laugh at Malthus now.

  • Xenocles||

    I'm not convinced that Malthus is dead yet. It seems obvious that we'll run out of food production capacity someday - Malthus just seems to have underestimated our ability to find new streams of food.

  • wareagle||

    it's about not treating the girls as fragile little snowflakes who will crumble at the first problem. And you're right about moms; the ones who expect their girls to do their best and to achieve and all the rest tend to have the best adjusted daughters.

  • Mr Whipple||

    The Discovery of Freedom: Man's Struggle Against Authority.

    pdf here:

    http://mises.org/books/discovery.pdf

  • Hyperion||

    No doubt whatsoever that the proglodytes continue to try to portray Ryan as some kind of Libertarian only as a very low life attempt to discredit Libertarians. This is what they do. It is all they have. If they let enought people get enlightened about Libertarianism, they are in deep shit and they know it.

  • Mr Whipple||

    Libertarians are crypto-arch-conservatives that want people to go without food, water, and air.

  • Hyperion||

    Noticed the comments here about feminists. I have lots to say about that. I don't really give a big fucking rats arse who gets offended by it either. But this isn't exactly the PC emporium, it's more like South Park. Anyone ever notice how silent most feminists are about Islam? I have even seen some of them go as far as to say that Islam is some type of feminist system of heroic proportions, lol. Yeah, they really believe that. Feminism is bullshit, plain and simple. Most women do not want a dominant role in a relationship and do not hate men. The ones who do have some serious emotional issues(explains most of them being progs I guess), or serious hormone inbalances. I have never met a sane and stable woman who does not like the man to be dominant. For all of the idiots that talk about spouse abuse, I am not talking about that, dummies. My wife comes right out and tells me that women love when the man is dominant. I am pretty damn sure that doesn't mean she wants me to beat on her, lol. There are some fucked up people out there and feminists are amoung the worst.

  • sticks||

    I've never gotten the dominant thing in relationships. Not that I'm a an expert, but why should either person be the dominant person?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Because it's not dominance as in a prison gang.

  • sticks||

    what?

  • Sevo||

    Hyperion| 8.17.12 @ 9:41PM |#
    ..."I have never met a sane and stable woman who does not like the man to be dominant."...

    You never met my wife. She has no desire to be "dominant", but she's not about to be "submissive" either. And I waited to find and marry a woman who was strong enough to call me on my bullshit.
    Comes to serious matters, neither one of us 'trumps' the other; it is decided between us.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    That sounds like bullshit from my experience.

    Marriage is a partnership, but that does not mean that every decision is a fifty-fifty issue.

    My wife is not a pushover, by an means, but there's a lot of stuff that she doesn't want to deal with at all. Like figuring out how to pay the mortgage or deal with bill collectors or cars or electronics.

    And there's a lot of shit that I don't care that much about, like what furniture or dishes to buy, what color to paint the rooms or what to plant in the yard.

    The thing is that we both think we have, and actually do have, the dominant position wrt what we care about.

  • Hyperion||

    My wife is not a pushover, by an means, but there's a lot of stuff that she doesn't want to deal with at all

    This. Great point. My wife is no exception at all in this regard. Women love for the man to be in charge.(NO, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY LIKE A FUCKING PRICK WHO NEVER LISTENS TO THEM AND BEATS THE SHIT OUT OF THEM!) Normal women anyways. I would steer clear of the ones who don't in general feel this way, as insanity is lurking right around the corner. Insane feminists would have women believe that this is abnormal and that men and women are equal in every way. That is perverse and leads to stupid ideas like progressivism. And we are all witness to the horrors wrought by that vile movement.

  • Sevo||

    VG Zaytsev| 8.17.12 @ 10:59PM |#
    "That sounds like bullshit from my experience.
    Marriage is a partnership, but that does not mean that every decision is a fifty-fifty issue."

    Ya know, you should read what was posted before replying.
    "Every" was not included, "fifty-fifty" ditto.
    I'm not going into details, but suffice to say, I respect her knowledge as she does mine, separate as those might be.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah I was responding more to the zeitgeist than your actual post.

    No offense intended.

  • JW||

    Marriage is a partnership, but that does not mean that every decision is a fifty-fifty issue.

    When you go out, who drives?

    In our case, I do.

    My wife is not a pushover, by an means, but there's a lot of stuff that she doesn't want to deal with at all.

    I once explained to the wife that I delegate certain duties to her, which is why I don't do them. She started flipping out, before I could point out that she does the exact same thing. Take out the trash lately or take the car in for service?

  • Christina||

    I like to say that nuclear families are not liberal democracies, they are communist dictatorships. (This is where leftists get lost. They don't see why we can't take that family model to its logical extreme.)

    In my particular family, my husband and I are the UN Security Council; each member holds veto power.

  • Hyperion||

    My wife and I like to say that we are Libertarians politically, but socialist democrats when it comes to home life. Of course, we only have 2 votes in our district, nenhum mais criancas para sempre...

  • JW||

    The she-spawn discovered a few months ago that our family is not a democracy.

    She: "This family is nothing but a dictatorship! With you in charge!"
    Me: "You got it. It's a benevolent dictatorship."
    She: [mouth open]

    Or, as I am known to tell them, "If ever you become dissatisfied with the management of this establishment, you're free to take your business elsewhere."

  • sticks||

    "If ever you become dissatisfied with the management of this establishment, you're free to take your business elsewhere."

    When I was a child it was "This, or boot camp. You decide. Dinner at six."

  • Hyperion||

    Yeah, JW, but I don't have to say that, I got meself a feminine, as opposed to feminist woman, from an old traditional family, where in that culture that is the norm. So no need to say that it is not really a socialist democracy, where she knows that if I want to assert my dictatorial authority, that I can and she won't even object, but that I won't because I am the benevolent ruler. Or somethin like that. Feels right to me, anyway.

    In plain English, I am the man, nuff said.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Sounds about on par with my family's setup (Puerto Rican here).

  • Hyperion||

    Latin thing maybe, my wife is Brazilian.

  • wareagle||

    every now and then, a scene from My Big Fat Greek Wedding rings true:

    Daughter: but mom, dad always says the man is the head of the family.

    Mother: he is right but the woman is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she wants.

  • JW||

    I was talking about the daughter, not the wife-unit.

    On the subject of the wife-unit, she didn't like a decision I made with the boy today, so here you go, you get to make the decision unilaterally and deal with all the bullshit that will shower down as a result. Enjoy.

    I couldn't begin to classify her, other than taking the exact opposite position from whatever I take.

  • SKR||

    You forgot "with a philosopher-king in charge" after benevolent dictatorship. That's when you hand her a copy of Plato.

  • Hyperion||

    Sticks and Sevo.

    I just threw that out there to let people read between the lines and interpret what they think it means. Of course, would be really naive of me to think that everyone or even most people would get my drift exactly because of lack of detail.

    What I meant by dominant, I think it is a very subtle thing. My wife and I make major decisions together and I like that, and even minor decisions, like what will we have for dinner or what movie we will watch. I am not some kind of prick or anything. Quite to the contrary, I am very respectful to her and her to me.

    It is really a very subtle thing. For instance, there are times when my wife seems to love if I just come home from work and say, 'hey, get dressed, we are going there...'. I think it's just that she seems to love a sensation of me being in charge. I find her much more feminine that most American women. I think that is more common to Latin women, and I really like that. Not into tomboys at all.

    But, I have to reiterate and double down on, feminizis are detestable scum, and insane.

    Hope that clarifies a little.

  • wareagle||

    seems pretty clear. Some days you don't want to have to make an after-work decision, like where to go for dinner or what to watch. The big stuff, sure, you talk about it and make a joint decision. And sometimes one of us will do something simply because the other really wants to.

  • Hyperion||

    This. And on the point of your last sentence, I can relate, like staying at the mall for 3 hours because she wants to, (:

  • wareagle||

    upside is my bride loves football. And understands the game, too. I can trade a shopping trip or two for that.

  • Christina||

    How about this? Every year I watch the Super Bowl alone while my husband cooks dinner. I don't cook and he doesn't care for sports.

  • wareagle||

    you're both happy it seems. What's not to like. My wife wears the tool belt in fixing things at home and I not ashamed of that because I can vacuum the hell out of a floor.

  • Hyperion||

    There isn't anything about that, that would be offensive, or strange to me and my wife.

    We both cook, but while she is just incredible, I am a mediocre wannabe. But my chili kicks ass!

    Other examples, I like gardening and flowers more than her, and I really think she likes cars more than I do.

    The only annoying thing is that she keeps wanting to buy all this feminine looking shit to put in my house, when just black stuff and stainless steel with bare wood accents works better for me.

  • Hyperion||

    Mine too, but we call it soccer. But when I want to watch futebal Americano, I watch it, damnit! And the woman folk gets me a beer!

  • sticks||

    well different people have different preferences. I guess we all know that.

    " I have never met a sane and stable woman who does not like the man to be dominant"

    I don't think one can get from the specific to the general in this case.

  • ||

    i do most of the cooking, too.

    and football bores me to tears. my wife watches it.

    i made some moroccan style beef stew with preserved lemon tonight.

    b00ya

  • wareagle||

    bored by football???? What the hell kind of American are you? Football isn't just in the Constitution, it's in the 10 Commandments. The sabbath is to be kept holy and can be observed on Saturday or Sunday, depending on your preference for college or the NFL.

  • Hyperion||

    It is a required religious rite in the new church that I am starting, the Man Church. I know that all men will come. Main features will be giant screen TV, NFL ticket, and kegs, lots of kegs. Ladies, say goodbye to the men folks on Sunday.

  • ||

    Never understood this.

    If you like sports, why don't you play them instead of watching them on TV?

    I don't football...

    ...but I'm not gay.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I play, but I like to see the pros do it better.

  • wareagle||

    because for the vast majority of guys, high school is the last game of genuine, organized tackle football they will ever play. Flag ball is not the same. It can only be watched.

    I can play basketball, golf, soccer, whatever other team/individual sport there is. But not football. And gays have been in the NFL; they just don't tell anyone till they have retired, like most male sports. Women are way ahead in that regard.

  • ||

    I watch tennis on TV...and play it 5-6 times a week. I also watch football on TV--and seriously enjoy it--but haven't played it, even a goofball pickup game, in years.

    Football is fucking fun to watch.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Same way with basketball for me. Play it 3-4 times a week, and I love watching it. Could never get into football.

  • JW||

    Yeah, I miss playing pick-up games of football, but that was 20 years ago. I have hunch that if I tried to play any contact sport now, I'd regret it very quickly.

    But, I swear, I will do some auto racing, of some kind, one day.

  • ||

    my dad still does lacrosse, which is pretty bad-ass imo. in his 60's.

  • ||

    Violence is really fun, so therefore football is really fucking fun to play and mildly fun to watch. However, I used to enjoy watching football a lot more back when I was playing it.

  • ||

    any sport i play is more fun to watch.

    since i moved to WA and no longer surf, i find surfing far less entertaining to watch.

  • sticks||

    bored by football???? What the hell kind of American are you?

    One bored by football. To each his own.

  • ||

    Saying that Rose Lane took a “hard turn to the right” tells me more about Judith Thurman than Rose Lane. I’m pretty sure actual right-wingers would say she remained a hard leftist. She actually turned hard towards true liberalism, or what we call libertarianism in the US. The left and the right both see libertarianism as a sect of their enemies and label them as such. So the leftists call us right-wingers, and the right calls us left-wingers.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Questions surround Suicide by Cop
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19302899

  • General Butt Naked||

    It sounds fishy.

    On the sidebar they had a link to a column about Ayn Rand. Surprisingly even handed. I didn't know that she was against "Beards and moustaches".

    Here's what Paul 'christfag' Ryan had to say about Rand:

    "Atlas Shrugged was a very exciting book to read when you're young but then you grow up and get a family and develop a relationship with God.

    "Rand teaches you that the individual is in complete control of their life and adolescents are terrified of being told what to do.

    "She tells students that when they leave college they will work for liberals who will take their taxes and don't know anything. She massages the egos of juveniles."

    Hey Paul, I got yer juvenile ego right here!

    *grabs crotch, shakes vigorously*

  • ||

    it's so RIDICULOUS, it almost has to be true.

    who could make up such horseshit?

    truth be stranger than fiction

    i have had a few incidents that are SO ridiculous, i felt pained writing the report, just because i knew how ridiculous it sounded.

    like i had the one where i approached the counterfeiter getting out of his car and pulled my gun and yelled at him to put his hands up. he literally dropped several thousand dollars in counterfeit bills. i mean talk about red handed. shit like that is hard to believe

    or the time i had a burg and the complainant just KNEW johnny dirtbag down the street did her burg. and like many burgs, the suspect took the victim's pillowcase to carry his shit away in. this one happened to be one she made herself with a very distinctive design

    so i figure what the fuck, i'll knock on dirtbag's door and ask him if he had seen anything suspicious. humor her

  • ||

    swear to god guy comes to the door, and opens it and IMMEDIATELY next ot him is her very distinctive handsewn pillowcase. and her DVD player is sitting right next to it (this was back when DVD players were actually worth something)

    or the dope case where i am running the plate (for officer safety before i approach) and im waiting and a guy comes out the door and beelines towards me holding out something in his hand outstretched. i'm like "what do you have in your hands". and the guy is like "my drugs. i figured you'd find them anyway"

    lol

    that was the case where i wrote a written warning for the MJ and the sgt. approved it. so, that's kosher i guess

  • General Butt Naked||

    Today I made stuffed hot banana peppers. They were stuffed with a mixture of hot italian sausage, eggs, breadcrumbs, cheese, fresh herbs, and diced thai hot peppers.

    I made sauce from scratch with stuff from the garden. The stuffed peppers were served with the fresh sauce over rigatoni with mozarella cheese melted on top.

    It was fucking awesome. The ingredients were home grown, except for the meat and cheese. Amazingly fresh flavors.

    *heads downstairs to raid the fridge*

  • ||

    thai hot peppers

    The ones that point up, or the ones that point down?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Up. I was supposed to have both but they all point up. Tiny, hot bastards. A pain to deal with because you need to pick about 1000 of them for a meal.

    I also have the aformentioned banana peppers, fatallis(hot as habanero,but has a fruity flavor-great for hot sauce), ghost peppers, and red savina habaneros.

  • ||

    i have a TOTAL food crush on you

    there is a special sense of satisfaction in cooking ingredients you grow yourself

    it's also a great bonding experience with my kids. go outside and pick your breakfast from the vines and bushes - blueberries, greens, apples, plums, etc.

  • General Butt Naked||

    You're in Washington, do you have the growing season for peppers and tomatoes? Or do people start stuff inside early?

  • ||

    god, the growing season this year SUCKS for tomatoes. i've gotten like 6 ripe ones so far. that's it. my neighbors have similar woes. the blueberries are going completely nuts, though. i get a full sized bowl every morning.

    some people start inside. i don't. i do the square foot garden thing and then have a bunch of bushes and trees for fruit

    i am considering buying a greenhouse.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Hell, put up a hoop house. You can put one up in a day for a couple of hundred dollars. There are a lot of plans online.

    Or, if you have the room inside you could not only start early, but overwinter the shit from the last season.

  • ||

    thanks. i will look into this. gotta extend the season a bit.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    hot italian sausage
    Does your wife get to pick which hot italian the sausage comes from?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yeah, she picked your mom.

    HA!

    ummm, err, take that...

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    my mom is ukranian. so take that.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Ukraine is game to you!

    Ukraine is STRONG!

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    when my family plays risk, Ukraine is homeland and worth 3 armies.

  • ||

    Rigatoni?!? Not penne? What the fuck is wrong with you?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Funny you say that. I almost went with the penne, but went with rigatoni, the smaller rigatoni actually which is like penne rigati(sp?). The reason was that I knew I was making homemade sauce and that it would be pretty thin unless I cooked it all day. Don't have time for that, 2-3 hrs is long enough. I don't use paste either; hate the taste of it.

    The thin sauce doesn't stick to the smooth penne well, and pools in the bottom of the bowl.

  • ||

    Penne is not smooth, you heathen scum, ziti is. Your horrific lack of pasta knowledge disgusts and enrages me.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    It also turns him on.

  • ||

    penne has ridges ... "for her pleasure"

  • General Butt Naked||

    Both ziti and penne can be smooth or rough, you goddamn dago poseur. I don't know why you try so hard; no one's ever gonna like you.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    He thinks he's Dennis Miller.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Ha!

  • ||

    Penne lisce isn't penne, it's fucking ziti, you poser fuckbag. Everyone knows that. And I only hope that everyone likes me half as much as I do.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Good job, dipshit. It only took you 6 minutyes to google that.

    Taking the computer courses at the YMCA still, champ?

  • ||

    Listen, you probably Irish Mick piece of shit, I'm distracted. I'm watching Private School and they just did the "American Girl" bit, and it was...distracting. Very, very distracting. Phoebe Cates distracting.

  • General Butt Naked||

    "IRISH"?! YOU TALKIN TO ...

    Wait, did you say Phoebe Cates?

  • ||

    Yes. Young Phoebe Cates. IT'S DISTRACTING.

  • JW||

    I'll be in my Fast Times bunk.

  • ||

    I'm also a fan of Betsey Russell's work in the film. I think it's still on a VHS in my parents' basement somewhere.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I'm Canadian. If it's not KD I don't want it.

  • General Butt Naked||

    How about, "Fresh Velveeta melted over Banana peppers, stuffed with timbits over poutine"?

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Replace the Velveeta with Kraft Mexicana shredded cheese...

  • Hyperion||

    You are from Canuckistan? And Libertarian? What has this world come to.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    It's an uphill battle.

  • Hyperion||

    I hear ya amigo, since I can relate. Lots of my Conservative friends like to say when I post 'and so speaks the guy from communist Maryland'.

  • Christina||

    Today (yesterday) I came home to a fully prepped homemade meat lasagna. All I had to do was put it in the oven. My husband is an awesome cook thanks to extensive coaching from his chef of a brother.

    My 3 year-old rejected it outright (he skips 4/5 dinners). More for me dude, more for me.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Dude's have been learning to cook ever since we were expected to either cook or clean. You'd rather have us cooking.

  • Hyperion||

    All of the men in my family cook better than their wives, except for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a bad cook, I am not bad at all. But my wife is from a long line of Italian women that handed cooking down for untold generations, and now combined it with the cooking of Bahiana, Brazil. Gawd, I love NE Brazilian food.

  • ||

    so, i get this call ... cold burglary. probably going to be pretty run o' the mill, right? i mean i've been to scores of these things

    i get there, house is kind of out of the way, almost like a compound - full on fencing, no trespassing signs, "armed homeowner" signs , the whole nine yards

    guy comes to the door. politely answers, and invites me inside. interior of the house is FILLED with nazi shit. i mean, i am talking flags, posters, the whole nine yards. guy has a swastika tattoo ON HIS NECK.

    clearly, not "covert' in his beliefs. and i'm taking the info down, totally routine ... "can you describe the pressure washer sir? " etc.

    surreal.

    so, he asks the magic question "have we been having a lot of burglaries in this neighborhood, any usual suspects?"

    and i SO SO SO SO SO SO SO want to make some comment ... totally deadpan... about the local Zionist Burglary Crew financed by the international jewish banking cabal, etc.

    but darn that new professionalism. i can't do it.

    :(

    but stuff like this is why i love my job. i mean you can't get more surreal and even kakfa'esque than taking a burg report from a couple of neo-nazis who are sitting there calmly drinking coffee (with vanilla creamer!) and remarking on our recent spell of dry hot weather.

    there are a million stories in the nekkid city. this was one of them.

  • Hyperion||

    So, what was the outcome? You didn't shoot his puppies, did ya?

    If not, what was that stew you were talking about earlier? I like cooking soups. Matter o fact, I have 3 or 4, including my chili, that kick arse.

  • ||

    i make a lot of beef stews- vietnamese style, american style,

    this is moroccan style.

    basically i cube up some beef

    and i season it with tumeric, salt and pepper and fresh ginger and garlic

    brown it in olive oil and butter (vive the maillard (sp?) reaction) and then dump it in a dutch oven along with all the brown bits

    add diced onion, carrot slices, green pepper slices, about 1/2 cup of cilantro (or parsley or both) , about two cups of water

    cook at low simmer for about 1 1/2 hrs to break down the fat and get that nice unctuous broth. i do this covered

    then i uncover it and add some olives and a couple of diced preserved lemons

    i then reduce it down to a more stewlike texture

    good over rice or couscous or with crusty bread

    you can use a nice cheap piece of meat to cube up and imo it's totally tasty

    you can also add some saffron. i did this time.

  • Hyperion||

    Thanks, man, I shall reciprocate, you won't regret it. Your Moroccan soup sounds awesome.

  • ||

    Hyperion, if you want soup recipes, email me. I am the original Soup Nazi--apropos to dunphy's story above--and I make the best soups.

  • Hyperion||

    Damn you, Epi, I am the original soup nazi! We will exchange soup recipes, just like da wimins folk! For real, but dude, I make the best soups. Big pot o chili(I was born in Cincy ya know) sittin on my stove right now.

  • ||

    oh, the outcome. i took a report, gave him the case # and i was on my way. i am pretty sure i know who did it (i would say on most burgs i have a pretty good idea who did it. we have about 4 crews who do the majority of our burgs and they all have little telltale signatures.

    it's just SO surreal when shit like this happens. i mean just totally casual, hangin' with the white supremacists

    and i kept humming "take the skinheads bowling" by camper van beethoven

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I choose not to cook!

  • Hyperion||

    Marry an Asian or South American woman then, or Italian, or kill yerself with da fast food, or just kill yerself. Or, in brighter news, have money to eat out at good restauarants every day.

  • JW||

    Marry an Asian or South American woman then

    So this.

    A friend of mine with 3 kids from marriage #1 to Caucasian American woman just married a Filipino woman, very cute, her friends are very cute and he seems extremely happy.

  • ||

    few things better in life than to come home to a house that smells like adobo and a nekkid welcoming filipino girlfriend in the kitchen...

    ahh, hawaii memories

  • Hyperion||

    Caucasian American woman = pure evil. Caucasian woman from anywhere else in world = feel better, get more sex, eat better, feel good!!! Oh, and best part, don't say goodbye to half your stuff to white bitch! Sorry, white american bitches, just that white bitches from distant shore = better than you, biaaatcchhh!

  • Christina||

    The girl I've known all my life is the spawn of an Indian (from the subcontinent, not a reservation) man and a blonde American woman. Their marriage lasted a few years before she walked out on the family when my friend was 18 months-old. My friend hasn't heard from her mother since.

    After his wife divorced him my friend's dad tried to find another wife. He tried and he tried. But his type is the American blonde and no American blonde had any interest in an Indian mathematician/computer guy who, by the way, was a very, very, very passionate Christian-turned-Messianic Jew. So not only did the guy have positively archaic views on the proper woman's place, he would also proselytize the shit out of you.

    By the time I got married he had long since given up hope in finding an American blonde. But, he still wanted a blonde. So he did the whole Russian mail-order bride thing. Only the woman he picked told him upon meeting that she really wanted to stay in Russia, so it wouldn't work out between them.

    He wasn't able to attend my wedding, in which which his daughter was a bridesmaid, because he was in Colombia trying to find a blonde bride. No luck there either.

    He died of a sudden heart attack while shoveling his walk during snowpacalypse. He never remarried, or had any more children.

  • JW||

    He sounds like a rigid, card carrying weirdo. They generally die alone.

    I like grilled cheese sandwiches, but I would never think of limiting my diet to just that and only that.

  • Christina||

    He was a very nice man, so I'll be nice and say he was eccentric.

    His problem was that his reach exceeded his grasp and he was, indeed, too rigid to adjust.

  • JW||

    He was a very nice man, so I'll be nice and say he was eccentric.

    OK, I'll go with that.

    Reminds me of my ex's father. He was Iranian, but loved American women. He was a first class weirdo (not for his taste in women).

  • Christina||

    We white American women have been coasting on our brand for years. Now we're being forced to compete with Asian and Latin imports who offer far more bang for the buck (pun intended).

    Being married to a white American woman is the functional equivalent of owning a Jaguar. It's a status symbol. You're so awesome that you can manage a temperamental bitch and do it simply because she turns you on.

  • JW||

    Being married to a white American woman is the functional equivalent of owning a Jaguar.

    And you're always in the shop. I keed!

    I'm not sure that analogy works. American women, in terms of availability, are the Fords and Toyotas. But functionally, they're the Fiats. Temperamental and unreliable. The exotics, OTOH, should be the Ferraris and Porches; but instead, they're more reliable and still shitloads of fun.

    American women seem to have forgotten that it's not all about them. Men are still expected to bend over backwards to please them, but I see little in return for that effort. The exotics still understand that the man wants something from them other than torrents of grief.

  • homebrude||

    Wouldn't it be more honest to just say your penis is too small for American women? Get on with it, dude--they apparently have.

  • ||

    One of the advantages of living in Singapore was Filipino live in maids who could cook up a storm for sure.

  • JW||

    Marry an Asian or South American woman then, or Italian, or kill yerself with da fast food, or just kill yerself.

    Years ago, I probably could have married a westernized Indian woman, beautiful, smart, didn't have to have the last word but was no pushover, loved sex, but I was too young and too big an idiot.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid!

  • Paul.||

    Agitating for less government power and less authority is a one way ticket to hitlerville!

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yup, those damn selfish libertarians not wanting to take other people's money by force.

  • Hyperion||

    To the gulags with you, inconformist!

  • Hyperion||

    Must be the talk about food and wimin folk, but anyone in the mood for some custard pie?

    Custard Pie

  • ||

    i didn't know they were videotaping!!!

    my keen professionalism and expert witness testimony in action

    and it all started from a humble terry stop

    http://www.jdbucksavage.com/da.....drunk.html

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Community returns to NBC October 19, 2012. Until then, here's almost seven minutes worth of outtakes from season three to hold you over.
    http://devour.com/video/community-bloopers/

  • ||

    Yeah, but without Dan Harmon, it doesn't bode well. I suspect they will try and mainstream it somehow. Less meta, more melodrama.

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