Dave Eggers' Crappy "90 Days, 90 Reasons" Site Strikes Again

Earlier this week we told you about a pro-Obama website started by literary luminary Dave Eggers. The site is titled 90 Days, 90 Reasons, its mission is to provide 90 "daily reasons—concrete, factual, plain—to re-elect Barack Obama...[and] likely outcomes of a Romney presidency"; and thus far, the bulk of its commentary has been written by famous people who do not follow the news, like Oscar-nominated poverty tourist Jesse Eisenberg

Today's entry is even better than its predecessors. It describes the exact moment that Jim James (of My Morning Jacket) realized President Obama is made of flesh and blood and hair, and is not a Connecticut robot in King Arthur's yurt (like our last president).

No, seriously: "Obama is not a robot" is the "concrete, factual, plain" reason Dave Eggers is giving Team Blue players to climb out of the ice tub, lace up their cleats, and do whatever activity this metaphor might use as a substitute for voting "D." 

Don't believe me? Here's Jim James performing "REASON 10: BARACK OBAMA IS NOT A ROBOT":

“Ok, who's ready to get their picture taken with the president?" This is what the no-nonsense Secret Service agent asked several of us. We had just walked offstage after performing at the national Christmas tree lighting ceremony, held every year since 1923 in President's Park, just south of the White House. I was honored to have been chosen in 2010 to sing perhaps my favorite Christmas standard, "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas," accompanied beautifully by the U.S. Coast Guard Band. Talk about surreal — but I had a really nice time and thought the performance went well, considering the level of stress that comes with a high-profile event like that.

The red carpet must have been 1000 miles long -- at least it seemed 1000 miles long to me as I strolled down the path -- but when I reached the end, the pomp and circumstance seemed to fall away, and there were two real people there, real people who reached out, gave me a big hug, and said thanks for coming ... and just like most everything that comes out of their mouths, you could tell they really meant it. They were no longer the President and First Lady there in that tent. They were REAL. Somehow in those three minutes they made me feel at ease and conveyed the truth of the human experience: that no one is any better or worse than anyone else.

Standing there getting our picture taken ... it was SO strange, being this close to a real live president. I thought of all the times I had seen him on TV, especially election night in 2008 -- watching with tears in my eyes as the Obama family took the stage after winning the election, thinking to myself what so many others were thinking: "Finally!!! Sweet justice! A real live person is our president! Who has a real live family and a loving relationship with his wife! A president that does not seem like an evil robot!!!" What a revelation it was. And standing right next to them, that feeling was confirmed to me even deeper -- that these were real people who know what it is like to live real life and deal with real struggles that ordinary Americans face every day. What an incredible thing to see and feel after watching way too many wealthy, out-of-touch presidents and their families take office.. Here was something in politics that finally made sense to me and so many others.

Only 80 more days of weird cult testimonials to go! 

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  • Barfman||

    *barf*

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    Thanks, barfman

  • Brutus||

    Sometimes a single word says it all.

  • Aresen||

    Did they let him pet the unicorn?

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    is that what you kids are calling it these days?

  • Aresen||

    lol^10

  • ||

    The stupid! It burns!

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Dave who now?

  • Anacreon||

    Eggers is from my hometown, and I did some writing for a magazine of his in the mid-90s. I have always been puzzled by why so many people think he is a genius. From his derivative "clever" ideas (let's open a store for people to pretend to be pirates!) to his self-publication of his friends' navel-gazing essays, I have just never seen it. A classic example of the Emperor's New Clothes, he is considered "great" because other people say he is, and no one wants to look foolish for pointing out that he isn't.

  • ||

    I dunno, I loved A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. His other stuff I could take or leave, though some of the short stories are good.

  • Dylan||

    This is from The Onion right?

  • Brutus||

    No, DC Tiger Beat.

  • JW||

    "I'm never going to wash that 6 square inch patch of my left shoulder ever again."

  • BakedPenguin||

    Jim James (of My Morning Jacket)

    I'd rather hear what Jim James of Newsradio has to say on the matter.

  • The Hammer||

    Jimmy: You know what's really, really wrong with this country? Nothing!

    Bill: Your confusing thesis has captured my attention. Tell me more.

    Jimmy James: I am a cipher, a cipher wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce

  • ||

    I sure do love me some Stephen Root.

  • ||

    You know what I'd like? I'd like celebrities, on both sides of the aisle, to sit down and shut the fuck up. They are probably some of the least informed, most retarded people on the face of the planet.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    You meant that getting paid convincingly speak the words of others doesn't make you an expert on everything?

  • ||

    Shocking I know.

  • The Hammer||

    Yeah, but they don't ever reflect or re-examine their premises either, so they've got that going for them.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    At first I saw the picture and I thought like maybe the bass player for Mastodon was shilling for Obama and I was sad. But then I learned it was some guy I never heard of. So I went to his wiki page, and I still don't understand who he is or why he is 'famous'. I mean I guess there's 88 more reasons to go or something, but come on.

  • Professor Booty||

    How could you confuse the awesome raw power of Troy Sanders with Jim James? Geez.

  • nicole||

    I feel like the worst part of this is just the straight-up lameness. That's ignoring the part that implies no president before Obama ever loved his wife (WTF?).

    Anyway, I'm here to shill for a minute: some people are publishing a guide-book via Kickstarter and if you vote for me (only possible, alas, via a Facebook "like"), you could get a real literary luminary in there. (See how I integrated the shilling into the topic of the post? And no, I don't mean me, I mean Melville.)

  • BakedPenguin||

    I would prefer not to.

  • nicole||

    Teehee

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Sorry, nicole, but number 5 is William Gibson. Billy Budd is great and all, but it's no Neuromancer.

  • nicole||

    The attempt to actually compare the two is a little tough, but of course you should go with what you like best!

  • Restoras||

    I don't know what any of you are talking about but everyone knows Ender's Game is the best book ever written.

  • SugarFree||

    Yes, the novelization of The Last Starfighter was quite a read.

  • Restoras||

    +1 Ansible

  • Azathoth!!||

    Ender's Game was published in 1977. Wouldn't 'Only You Can Save Mankind' be more like the novelization of 'The Last Starfighter'?

    Unless you consider the actual novelization of 'The Last Starfighter'.....

  • rts||

    You know, and maybe I'm guilty of a little Canada Smug here, but from observing from afar this strange near-deification of presidents the American left (AND right, but to a lesser extent) engages in borders on North Korea-style creepiness for Love of Leader.

    I mean, I know a fair number of hyper-partisan TEAM tribalists here, and with the possible exception of eulogizing the dead, I never see this level of personal worship (rather, they'll gas on about the policies and ideas).

    I've seen some American friends share those "Wish Obama a happy birthday!"-type links on Facebook and wonder to myself, how the fuck did I not detect this severe personality disorder when I knew this person IRL when I was living in California?

  • Brutus||

    You're right about this being a bipartisan stroke-fest. The apotheosis of Reagan in the past few years have left even me, a guy who liked and respected the man, queasy.

    They're the hired help, folks, not denizens of Olympus.

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    I think your Canada smug is well placed. The US populace just sucks with the Leader Worship any more. It's kind of sickening.

    I blame Bush.

  • ||

    Nana nana nana nana. Nana nana nana nana. FISHING!

    I mean... LEADER!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Didn't we used to have laws against putting pictures of dead leaders on money? We really need to bring those back.

  • Hugh Akston||

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    You MONSTER!!!

  • Brutus||

  • Scotticus Finch||

    I'll put up a similar marker in the spot where he first raped me in the ass.

    Only the first, though. Granite ain't cheap.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    THE FUCK?!?

    America is dead.

  • R C Dean||

    That would be the Baskin-Robbins that was saved from bankruptcy by Bain Capital, yes?

    I think we need another plaque. For the fairness.

  • ||

    Holy shit that's awesome. This should be pointed out to all Obamaites between now and the election. The lulz as their heads explode would be great.

  • Brutus||

    +32

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    This was in the morning links comment section, too.

  • Numeromancer||

    If I go and piss on it, am I protected by the 1st amendment?

  • Loki||

    WHAT. THE. FUCK. EVER.

    That is all.

  • anon||

    It's a natural by-product when one depends on their government for sustenance rather than themselves.

  • rts||

    I see your point but I'd argue we have just as much of that here as you have there, and yet I don't detect that same level of political hero worship.

    Also this phenomenon cuts across all social strata. My American FB friends that I referred to range from pretty well off to proper rich, so it's not like they're thanking the deity that dispenses food stamps.

  • nicole||

    I always thought it had something to do with the fact that you aren't, really, electing a PM, but MPs. I just don't think you get the same level of cult-of-personality in a parliamentary system, even when the party leader is very strong and personally well-liked.

  • Aresen||

    In a Westminister Parliament, you are electing spear-carriers for the boss.

    MPs have fare less power than Congresscritters.

    OTOH, the PMOC does have to answer questions about his government's performance every day during question period in the House; he/she cannot sit back and refuse to testify like the POTUS can.

    Also, if a PMOC gets too far above himself, his own MPs can bring him down in a confidence vote.

  • nicole||

    Yeah, I know how it works. I always found, for example, that around campaign season in Canada you were much more likely to see the party's name most prominently displayed in signage, even if there was also plenty of coverage of the obvious PM candidate as well. The amount of "vote Democrat!" you see here vs. just the "O" symbol is a total reversal of that.

  • rts||

    Interesting point. I wonder if other Presidential republics besides the US experience the same?

  • AuH2O||

    Well... DeGaul would be a big example that this is true of France. I mean, each President of France seems to get their own cult following, even Sarkozy.

  • ||

    The cult wasn't following Sarkozy, they were actually following Carla Bruni

  • Brutus||

    Peron is still a fixture in Argentina, even after totally fucking the place up.

  • Aresen||

    Having lived through the Trudeau era, I would not get smug at all.

    The way the CBC still fellates Trudeau's corpse is fully the equal of the Presidential Cult in the USA.

    TBS, given Clark, Turner, Mulroney, Campbell the short, Chretien, Martin and Harper, it is pretty difficult not to laugh out loud when one speaks of the PMOC.

  • rts||

    Having lived through the Trudeau era, I would not get smug at all.

    Ah, good call. I'm a child of the 80s, so Trudeau is kind of a fog in my mind.

    Point taken.

  • Brutus||

    Does Maggie still fellate his corpse? I know she did just about everyone else.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Jack Layton was getting close. They are already making a movie about him.

  • rts||

    That's who I was thinking of when I said "eulogizing the dead". It wasn't at all like this Obama worship before he got sick. You're right in that it was getting pretty nauseating when he passed, but I'll cut some slack for the dead and, uh, "grieving".

    Aresen, though, was bang on for the Trudeau worship while he was in office (and afterwards).

  • Killazontherun||

    What? Every Canadian doesn't drink a mug of Molsen to a life sized statue of Brian Mulroney every evening? We have been misinformed.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Molson is shit.

  • Restoras||

    What do Canadian's like if not Molson? Is Molson the Canadian Budweiser??

    Drank a lot of Labatt's Blue back in the day.

  • nicole||

    Moosehead. And they buy it in a two-four.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Alexander Keith's and Kokanee

  • RBS||

    I remember a beer with a fat dwarf on the label being pretty good.

  • Zeb||

    I like Molson just fine.

  • Randian||

    You like retail, popular beer?! BURN HERETIC

  • Aresen||

    Only so they can fill their bladder in order to pee on his foot.

  • R C Dean||

    When I saw that monument on the news yesterday, my first thought was "Man, they could hardly have made a more inviting target for offloading the evening's beers."

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    He wasn't even PM, or likely ever going to be PM. It's more about mourning his loss, they're mourning the loss of what could have been.

  • rts||

    I dunno... I'd say his illness and impending death helped the NDP become the opposition; I believe the sympathy got them more than the might otherwise have achieved.

  • Aresen||

    Eh?

    Layton claimed through the campaign he was cured and able to run the country.

    The treNDee Pee picked up votes because the Liberals and BQ basically collapsed.

  • Killazontherun||

    This is one Canadian complaint that is completely legitimate. I'm native to the Nth degree and it creeps me the fuck out.

  • ||

    The upcoming Jack Layton movie may serve as a hell of a test for your Canadian theory.

  • rts||

    with the possible exception of eulogizing the dead

  • ||

    I guess, although Layton's political accomplishments seem to me more like material for an animated short than a 2 hour movie... I mean, it's not like a movie about the life of a guy who was merely the opposition leader (for a few months) is typical.

    Unless we're just gonna watch him and Olivia stare into each other's eyes, dreaming about actually having some real power and changing something.

  • rts||

    Unless we're just gonna watch him and Olivia stare into each other's eyes, dreaming about actually having some real power and changing something.

    I don't know about this we business (but maybe the massage parlour scene might be interesting), but I think you've pretty much nailed the plot.

  • ||

    Hahaha I guess I don't like using the impersonal term "the viewer". But I doubt I'll waste my time (especially not living up there), although I'm sure that my commie sister will buy any special limited edition DVD they release.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I don't have to watch it. They are filming it in Winnipeg. We get updates on the news.

  • ||

    Actually there's another guy that's constantly lionized by Canadians that I thought of that many Americans might not even recognize... Tommy Douglas, who was even voted history's Greatest Canadian! Cue the barfing

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Canadian

  • Rasilio||

    Is that kinda like winning the special olympics?

  • ||

    Gotta love the voting (not that I wouldn't expect similar results anywhere). Fredric Banting #4, Alexander Graham Bell #9. Discover insulin and win the Nobel Prize? Invent the telephone? Sorry, not good enough. Alexander Graham Bell should have called up Ron MacLean's great-great-grandfather and told him about all of the chicken swedes that were going to want to use his telephone, he might have squeezed ahead of Don Cherry.

  • Randian||

    Needs MOAR Alanis Morissette.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    We got a local DJ on the list as a joke. #15 I think?

  • ||

    #34 actually, still a pretty good showing

  • Zeb||

    And Shatner isn't on the list at all.

  • ||

    Shatner I think squeezed into the top 50, don't have it in front of me anymore.

  • BakedPenguin||

    So he was Canada's JFK, only without the charisma. But I repeat myself.

  • ||

    watching with tears in my eyes as the Obama family took the stage after winning the election

    Oh my gosh, you're so embarrassing!

  • Brutus||

    If Obama loses in November, he has a bright future with a Menudo or Backstreet Boys revival band.

  • Drake||

    Well thank goodness this President isn't out of touch or wealthy. I fell better.

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    CAPTION!!

    "Got my 70's pornstache, my 70's sideburns, my 70's leather jacket, and I'm ready to parTAYYYY!"

  • Brutus||

    Needz moar chainz.

  • o3||

    and members only plus spray breath freshener...which sprays sideways

  • Drake||

    And a big cool belt-buckle. And a vest and collared shirt under the jacket to show I'm a nice guy on the inside and you shouldn't be intimidated by my gruff exterior.

  • Restoras||

    Don't forget some velour in there somewhere

  • Pip||

    "Needz moar chainz."

    Romney will provide them.

  • Brutus||

    Perfect!

  • JD the elder||

    "These were real people who know what it is like to live real life and deal with real struggles that ordinary Americans face every day. What an incredible thing to see and feel after watching way too many wealthy, out-of-touch presidents and their families take office."

    I know, right? It's great to see a President who's a real person and understands ordinary Americans' issues like having multiple Ivy League degrees, being a multimillionaire bestselling author, and being on the boards of several foundations.

  • ant1sthenes||

    I'm just glad there's someone in the White House now who understands how frustrating it can be when your personal chef doesn't properly prepare your arugula.

  • o3||

    #91 - help prove ann coulter wuz correct about mittens!?!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    You what over politician wasn't a robot?

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    I'm guessing iPhone submission with hyper-Autocorrect in play.

    Amirite?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Anonbot?

  • ||

    I've never heard of this guy's band, but a quick look around Youtube confirms that they're fucking terrible.

  • RBS||

    Oh MMJ fucking sucks. The people I knew in college that liked them were all Younglife morons.

  • Professor Booty||

    Actually they used to be quite good. Their first four albums are excellent, and they only started sucking on the last two. Of course, if you are a aspergian net nerd or never grew out of your high school metal phase you would probably not "get" them.

  • ||

    So you have terrible taste. It's OK, you don't have to be ashamed. I mean, you should be ashamed, but you don't have to be.

  • Professor Booty||

    I grew out of my Swedish death metal phase. I'm sorry I didn't stay in Neverland. I am so uncool.

  • ||

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Is your feelings hurt, big guy? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt your little feelings.

  • Professor Booty||

    Feelings? Don't have any. No butthurt here. I just enjoy a good flame war. You know, there IS decent music out there other than metal, you unlovable roid-addled power-lifting man-beast.

  • ||

    Unlovable???

  • SugarFree||

    Man???

  • ||

    They are the "cool" version of Kings of Leon.

  • Brett L||

    Does not compute.

  • Brutus||

    It's like the head-banging version of Air Supply or The Carpenters.

  • Pip||

    I'M LOST IN LOVE AND I'M SO OUT OF TOUCH!!!

  • BakedPenguin||

    This is as close to what Brutus said as I know about.

  • Brutus||

    That wins the thread.

  • Professor Booty||

    Kings of Leon made exactly one decent album. They have, however, always been insufferable phonies.

  • Randian||

    JD Salinger, please pick up the black courtesy phone...

  • Professor Booty||

    Holden Caulfield? WHAT A FUCKING PHONY. Now excuse me while I go attempt to emote to a prostitute and end up getting shamefully beaten and robbed.

  • T||

    Otherwise known around here as Friday night.

  • nipplemancer||

    The only reason I even know who they are is because of an episode of American Dad. And the only thing I learned is that I have no desire to ever hear that shit.

  • Brutus||

    American Dad is for people who think Family Guy is too subtle.

  • ||

    Here, something not terrible by an Obama-hating crackpot.

  • Professor Booty||

    I can't see this at work, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume Mustaine is involved.

  • ||

    Obviously. He's easily my favorite crackpot.

  • Rasilio||

    I've heard of them, but only because one of my wifes best friends is the lead singers cousin.

    I have never actually heard any of their music which leads me to believe they are either fucking awesome or horrible but I have heard of them.

  • sloopyinca||

    Somehow in those three minutes they made me feel at ease and conveyed the truth of the human experience: that no one is any better or worse than anyone else.

    Yeah, I'm gonna have to take issue with this nitwit. Is he trying to tell us that Hitler was no better or worse than Enrico Fermi? Or that Pol Pot, for all his faults, was equal to James Joyce? Or Carrot Top is no better or worse than Hank Aaron?

    Fuck man, these people are just beyond parody. I couldn't even see SF creating Obama fanfic as absurd as the real stuff is.

  • ||

    There really is no reason too. Real life is way too entertaining sickening* now.

    *I assume that any fanfic that SF creates would sicken me to my core and make me but a shell of the person I once was.

  • AuH2O||

    "Boy, there are some door in life that are best to leave closed. Some locks you don't want opened. Some... things... that are best left kept away from the world."

  • SugarFree||

    I couldn't even see SF creating Obama fanfic as absurd as the real stuff is.

    I do what I can, but these people are professionals.

  • JW||

    "Obama is not a robot"

    While we can't prove that one way or another, we can say with certainty that his supporters are.

    10 IF D GOTO 20
    20 EMOTE
    30 IF R GOTO 40
    40 ERROR ERROR

  • rts||

    No offence, but I hope you don't write code for a living.

  • ||

    +50

  • sloopyinca||

    No offence,

    -50 for not speaking American on an American board.

    Sorry, but you're back to zero (or "naught" as you flappy-heads probably call it).

  • rts||

    Tabernac!

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    I realise your education was lacking, but do not bring the rest of us down to your level.

  • sloopyinca||

    realise

    Do they remove the Z's from your keyboards at customs?

    BTW, did you know that every time I get insulted, a person drops a place in the FFL draft order? Thought you might like to know that.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Only if you pronounce 'Z' as 'Zed'

  • Randian||

    Get out.

  • AuH2O||

    What day is that again?

  • SFC B||

    The cool one is at 1am on the 26th.

  • ||

    How does one get in on that?

  • Rich||

    No offense, but JW was responsible for writing much of the Perimeter Intrusion Detection System.

  • JW||

    Good enough for gubmint work. Pays well too.

  • JW||

    No offence, but I hope you don't write code for a living.

    What gave it away?

  • Randian||

    The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
  • alexdroog||

    As I stood there waiting I must say I was perhaps more nervous that I had ever been in my life — and I have found myself in some pretty nerve-racking situations. But then before I could think about it any longer, "Poof!" they pulled back the curtain, Jackie and her dad left, and I was ushered inside. It was a narrow tent, with a long red carpet leading the way to the President and First Lady of the United States of America standing tall at the end. The red carpet must have been 1000 miles long -- at least it seemed 1000 miles long to me as I strolled down the path -- but when I reached the end, the pomp and circumstance seemed to fall away, and there were two real people there, real people who reached out, gave me a big hug, and said thanks for coming ... and just like most everything that comes out of their mouths, you could tell they really meant it. They were no longer the President and First Lady there in that tent. They were REAL. Somehow in those three minutes they made me feel at ease and conveyed the truth of the human experience: that no one is any better or worse than anyone else.

    Because real people hide behind curtains, guarded by armed men, and have others walk a red carpet before greeting them. I know that's how it is at my house...

  • Drake||

    Well, I am armed...

  • The Hammer||

    Riggs! That picture is just begging for alt text.

  • Brett L||

    "From his Anchorman II promo shoot"

  • BakedPenguin||

    Semipro II would have been the better faux sequel. For a couple reasons.

  • Brett L||

    I won't even admit to knowing that movie exists. I watched maybe 2 minutes of it on cable and bailed.

  • BakedPenguin||

    You sir, are a better man than I. As an excuse, I will say that I was drunk.

  • ||

    What I also love is this assclown's assumption that had he played the Christmas Tree Lighting ceremony 4 years ago Bush would have just dismissed him or been all robotic about things. Fuck even Oliver Stone didn't try to portray Bush as a robot.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    The only reason I need: What is his stance on mandated alt-text?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    So, they aren't even pretending it's not a cult of personality now?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Gillespie's black leather jacket Egger's brown vinyl jacket

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Fuck you squirrels--that's supposed to be Gillespie's black leather jacket is greater than Egger's brown vinyl jacket

  • ||

    "daily reasons—concrete, factual, plain abstract, opinionated, bizarre—to re-elect Barack Obama..."

    Fixed.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    I can't bring myself to put that Obama love-fest site in my bookmarks, so Reason, please continue highlighting the funniest (most pathetic) bits.

  • sloopyinca||

    Alt text: Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son.

    -or-

    Coning soon to a theater near you: Animal House II: Flounder's Revenge!

  • Silverlode||

    I like MMJ a lot actually. I like them more because this guy is a fan of my band. But this 90 days 90 reasons thing is absolutely pitiful. In a way that makes me want to look away in shame. I only hope that when these contributors mature they look back and cringe.

  • sloopyinca||

    What makes you think fully grown adults will ever "mature" more than they already have? Sorry, but there are some people that just like having others run their lives and take great pleasure in making their hero-worship public.

    There was a time when many German artists latched on to a leader as well. His name escapes me at the moment, but I'm sure one of you will remind me.

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    Frederick II?

  • Brett L||

    I want to change my guess to this.

  • Brett L||

    Helmut Kohl?

  • Archduke PantsFan||

    WAIT
    David Hasselhof!

  • sloopyinca||

    Sorry, but the correct answer is Falco. I was looking for Falco, people.

  • Slumbrew||

    Now you're just making things up. Everybody knows Falco was Austrian, as evidenced by his mega-hit, "Vienna Calling".

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm sorry, but I said German artists latched onto a leader. I never said he wasn't Austrian. I doubt Falco was the only Austrian in the 20th Century that many Germans followed.

    In fact...

  • Slumbrew||

    Ah, I follow you. You're saying Falco wanted to exterminate the Untermenschen. I will admit that I never listened too carefully to his lyrics, but that makes total sense now that you mention it.

  • Randian||

    Charlemagne?

  • Anacreon||

    Do you mean the leader on a fishing line?

  • R C Dean||

    This just awesome.

    The cult-o-personality on display is priceless.

    Query: did they start with their weakest, lamest ones, to build up to a finish, or did they launch with their best stuff, and its all downhill from here.

    Pls, pls keep the juiciest ones coming!

  • sloopyinca||

    Wait until the Horse-lady and Anna Wintour ones print then. My guess is they hold those until around the 20 day mark. After that, it'll all be race-hustlers and hardcore feminists.

  • AuH2O||

    Don't forget world's funniest woman Lindy West!

  • nicole||

    Why Ayn Rand leads to a "Hunger Games" type society. Or, you know, not.

    Also, Little House on the Prairie was the second, not third, book in the series. Thanks for your vaunted fact-checking, New Yorker.

  • Brett L||

    I saw today that Atlas Shrugged was in the mid-30s for top paid books on iBooks. Someone should tell people it isn't nearly as pretentious to download a book you'll never read. What are you going to do? Leave your dl'd booklist open at the coffee shop?

  • nicole||

    Maybe all the dudez out there read that NY mag piece from the other day and realized if they wanted to read AS and get laid, it would have to be invisible. Just like the ladies like to download romance novels for Kindle now so no one will know what they are reading.

  • ||

    In the last few days, however, Ryan has had to shrug Rand off—she’s his Jeremiah Wright.

    Really? Ryan, who 12 when Rand died, was a member of her collective and had his children baptized her? Idiotic faux controversy.

  • ||

    Ugh
    *who was 12 when Rand died

    **and had his children baptized by her

  • R C Dean||

    she’s his Jeremiah Wright.

    This might work if the media had shown any interest in punishing Obama for soaking up Wright's racist screeds for 20 years.

    As it is, she seems to be saying Rand is the radical in Ryan's past who the media doesn't give a shit about, which makes no sense.

  • Randian||

    I liked how the author completely missed how the Founding Mothers came to libertarianism in the first place:

    Paterson, like Lane, it’s worth mentioning, came from an impoverished farming background; Rand’s family lost all they had in the Russian Revolution of 1917.

    You mean people whose lives were made significantly worse by government interference learned something from it? The horrors.

  • nicole||

    Yeah, that was my favorite part too. I was just thankful it didn't turn into much of a Little House, Long Shadow affair, which would have had me running for the hills.

  • Killazontherun||

    I was looking at some literary reviews from several mainstream sources for A Feast of Crows one day last week, as it was the first to really get their attention. God, what a display of ignorance. The gist of their sagery would have you believe that Martin invented adult fantasy. I've been reading adult fantasy since I was eight and picked up a sex and murder laden work by Philip Jose Farmer. I've been reading this stuff my entire life, Stephen Donaldson, Fitz Lieber, John Buchan, Andre Norton, LeGuin, etc., and they are the ones with the credentials to write about it.

  • Killazontherun||

    it.?

  • ant1sthenes||

    If everyone was a Randian, probably, since there would be much less charity, and all of it would be serving some ulterior motive. Of course, since all the people suffering would be Objectivists, I don't see the problem.

  • Killazontherun||

    If everyone were a Randian then where would this 'poverty' come from? You have had poor people from the beginning of the species. But poverty is not the same thing. Poor people in hut villages were able to take care of their own needs with only plague and drought effecting their external circumstances. Ghetto poverty is nothing like that. It is a condition of the spirit where the drive and motivation to take care of ones person is replaced with dependence on a lord and master. Even what you saw in Ethiopia shows this to be so, as a once bountiful people were destroyed by a Communist take over. Within that generation, one bad drought was enough to kill hundreds of thousands.

    The conditioned mind that is the necessary source of poverty would be absent if everyone were Randians so your claim is self defeating.

  • Killazontherun||

    BTW, I'm not a Randian, but you set up the condition 'if every one were a Randian . . .' Well, Sport, the planet would be empty of poverty pimps to create the conditions necessary to poverty.

    You could have said 'an-cap' instead of 'Randian' and the inevitable logic would be the same.

    Now, if you asked, 'if everyone were a socialist . . .' Well, we would all be dead. Yeah, USSR was socialist, but they had a lucrative black market, and most of the industrial city leaders were communist in name only, but oligarchs ruling an economic roost. If they actually followed the precepts of socialism to a T, the Russians would be no more.

    Sweden isn't socialist. They have a highly influential socialist party, but capitalism remains the backbone.

  • Adam330||

    I'm not going to believe he's not a robot until they make him pass a CAPTCHA before every speech.

  • Loki||

    that these were real people who know what it is like to live real life and deal with real struggles that ordinary Americans face every day. What an incredible thing to see and feel after watching way too many wealthy, out-of-touch presidents and their families take office.

    The stupid! It burns! Does this putz not realize how ridiculously loaded the Obamas are? Or does he honestly believe that the "real struggles that ordinary Americans face every day" include taking multiple vacations a year to Martha's Vineyard, Spain, Hawai'i or pretty much any other place on the planet they want to go, playing Golf anytime they want, flying off to NY for "date night" or any of the hundreds of other things the Obamas have done over the past 3.5 years that would be considered "out-of-touch" if any other president (especially rich white Republican ones) did them?

    How can one person demonstrate this much cognitive dissonance without their head exploding like that dude from Scanners?

  • AuH2O||

    Well, because, while the Obamas aren't robots, many of their followers are.

  • Zeb||

    Well, to be fair, they weren't rich their whole lives. But I don't think they ever struggled too much either. But neither were most prsidents. I think that this douche is just stuck in the "Bush Sucks" mode.

  • Paul.||

    Something that always leaves me sad and perplexed is the almost shocking turnaround of sudden respect-for-the-office that liberal celebrities affect when their guy gets in charge. It's like all skepticism melts away.

    It's like you're watching a USO rally in 1942 for the troops. It's all stars-and-stripe and hushed reverence. I could accept it if the guy was dramatically different than the previous guy, but when he's only different at the margins, I just don't get it.

  • Skip||

    Thats why I think even if you think Romney will be the same as Obama (he won't but whatever) you should still vote for Romney. These celebrity assholes should be made to suffer every 4 years and see how hypocritical they are. And if Romney sucks, go ahead and vote for the Democrat in 2016 to see the hypocrisy cycle start anew.

  • Paul.||

    Or you could vote for Gary Johnson. Because a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Gary Johnson.

  • AuH2O||

    See, I would do that... but you give the reason yourself. They simply do not see their own hypocrisy. Really, they do not see it.

    The Democratic Party under the next R pres is going to go right back to pretending that the War Powers Act means something and that civil liberties are sacred and that assassination is wrong and that war is evil.

    It won't teach them a damn thing.

  • Zeb||

    Oh, stop with the stupid strategic voting crap. Vote for the candidate you think would be best for the office.

  • R C Dean||

    when he's only different at the margins

    And even then, not in a good way.

  • califernian||

    It is a politician's JOB to put on a smile and make you feel warm and fuzzy when you are in the presence. They are the best in the world at this. You have to be a freakin' moron to think some politician is a "real" person just like you and me. WTF.

    The irony here is that Obama actually IS a ROBOT. They all are. Jesus christ.

  • califernian||

    *ROBOT: the metaphorical one where he's a soulless actor without real emotion not an actual, artificial construction of a person.

  • Randian||

    I was just thinking about this. Politicians didn't get to where they are by being prickly SOBs. It is their function in life to make you feel like the most important person in the room.

  • Paul.||

    It's all plastic smiles, handshakes and double-finger-points. You don't get to be in upper management without it.

  • ||

    6th circuit court rules that pinging a cell phone for location data is not a "search". (note: for those of us who live in states that value privacy e.g. WA (and that also happen to be in the 9th), this case is irrelevant... here in WA, i can do pings based on exigency (kidnapping, etc.) or else i need a warrant. otoh, if you call 911, generally speaking, you are "volunteering" your cell's location data. i picked up a assault suspect the other day after he called 911, thus revealing his location.

    good discussion thread

    http://www.volokh.com/2012/08/.....qus_thread

  • Old Mexican||

    [...] and there were two real people there, real people who reached out, gave me a big hug, and said thanks for coming ... and just like most everything that comes out of their mouths, you could tell they really meant it.

    And they probably relieved you of your wallet - sucker!!!

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, they really cared that some dick from a crappy band came to their photo-op.

  • ||

    i happen to know one state rep (i used to work for him before he got into politics) who is a really good guy, and clearly a real person, all obama hagiographies aside.

    so, i guess it's possible to be a good person and a politician.

    at least at the beginning. let's see if he remains so. speaking of polling data, if there is one profession that consistently ranks amongst the lowest in respect of the american people - it's politicians. although journalists are co nsistently near the bottom, too

  • AuH2O||

    Actually, here is one of my biggest pet peeves:

    The tendency of the media and others to call former politicians by their former title.

    When interviewing Palin, it's all "Governor". Hell, even Clinton gets "Mr. President".

    They aren't the fucking President anymore! There is a ban on titles on nobility in our goddamn Constitution!

  • R C Dean||

    Me, too. Although they are somewhat selective about it. Guess which way.

  • Zeb||

    Do you put retired military officers who still use their ranks in the same category? Just wondering.

  • sloopyinca||

    here in WA, i can do pings based on exigency (kidnapping, etc.) or else i need a warrant.

    So you can do them without a warrant then? Sorry, but your little "etc" is a bit of a problem for libertarians. Especially when you personally think a cop shouldn't be held accountable if he improperly applies the law.

  • ||

    it isn't a problem for some libertarians. speak for yourself

    if sally soccer mom gets kidnapped, and she has her cell phone on her, yes we should be able to ping without a warrant.

    i can count on one hand the # of times in 20 yrs i have seen pings done for exigency in my agency. it's a rarity, but it is absolutely constitutional (imo) and absolutely good policy (imo)

    that sets aside your trollish attempt to claim (wrongly) that i think a cop shouldn't be held accountable if he improperly applies the law.

    you yet again, fail to understand the difference between normative and descriptive statements

    what i said, and this backed up by actual case law and cites is that as a general principle, failure to train can be a mitigating or sometimes an excusing factor when an officer misapplies the law, or policy.

  • ||

    or that past practice matters. iow, if an agency has a record of not disciplining officers for X (such as the case i mentioned - reaching into a car to turn off the ignition before the driver drives away in DUI, stolen car, etc. cases) then they can't turn around and discipline another officer for doing the same thing, merely because the result was politically unsavory

    that aside, i most definitely DO think cops should be help accountable for improperly applying the law

    iow, you lie as usual, and munge descriptive and normative arguments

    i explain to you what the law IS, and you portray that as me saying what the law SHOULD be

    there are a host of factors that determine (imo) to what extent an officer (or a citizen making a citizens arrest) shoul;d be held accountable for improperly applying the law

  • Auric Demonocles||

    i explain to you what the law IS, and you portray that as me saying what the law SHOULD be

    In almost all instances here, no one gives a shit what the law is. If you're arguing for something without being explicit, it's assumed you're saying that's the way it should be. If you're describing the way things are, and you don't say you disagree, then it's going to be assumed you agree.

  • ||

    false

    in many instances, people (mostly sloopy since his knowledge of the law is so weak) make proclamations about what the police, etc. can or can't do without a warrant, etc

    and they are quite often wrong

    and i don't give a flying fuck what you assume. i tend to speak precisely, and if i say the law says X, then i am saying the law says X. if i say 'i agree with it" then i do

    if you fail at reading comprehension, that's not my fault

    i will comment on the law as it is, and also comment on what i think the law SHOULD be

    i think cops should have FAR less search and seizure power.

    but if i am commenting on what their search and seizure power IS, that is not the same thing

  • sloopyinca||

    i think cops should have FAR less search and seizure power.

    And I'm sure you're pretty vocal about this when in the station house and when you perform your Terry stops on the flimsiest of "evidence", right?

  • ||

    yawn. weak troll attempt

    i choose to live and work in a state that respects FAR more privacy rights than the federal standard

    we don't DO search of motor vehicles incident to arrest

    we don't DO roadblocks for DUI,
    etc

    those are unconstitutional

    i will continue to make terry stops pursuant to the legal standards necessary

    and unlike you, i will apply the law and make a difference in the real world, and you will complain and wank but effect no positive change in the world whatsoever

    there are those of us who make the world a better place, and there are wankers.

    wank away

  • Auric Demonocles||

    and unlike you, i will apply the law and make a difference in the real world, and you will complain and wank but effect no positive change in the world whatsoever

    there are those of us who make the world a better place, and there are wankers.

    You're probably right, sloopy is making no positive change. Which makes him infinitely better than you, since you're part of the third group you left out: those that make the world a worse place.

  • ||

    lol

    i make the world a much better
    place

    and if you didn't have such blinders on, you would see that libertarian cops are better than non libertarian cops

    but i have zero doubt that i have effected metric assloads of positive change, including the ultimate one - saving lives.

    brining scumbags to justice is good too

    you can continue to make no difference and wank about stuff you don't understand

    i will continue to actually ENGAGE in the real world and make a difference

  • Auric Demonocles||

    The code I wrote just last month is going to do more good than you'll do in your entire life. And I did it all without enabling someone to beat up "civilians" or putting someone in prison for injecting something into their own bodies.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'd rather be here on my own, wanking away and not impacting anybody else's liberty than be in any way associated with a gang that regularly abuses the basic human rights of others because they are the arbiters of the law.

    I'd rather be making no impact than enabling those I work with to regularly and routinely pervert our system of justice by manufacturing, embellishing or illegally obtaining evidence to convict people of victimless crimes.

    And FWIW, I do contribute to making the world batter IRT law enforcement. I do it by involuntarily paying taxes that go to pay settlements to the victims of police abuse. Based on that contribution alone, I'd imagine I'm doing more for liberty than you ever could offset with your little tin badge and gun.

  • sloopyinca||

    in many instances, people (mostly sloopy since his knowledge of the law is so weak) make proclamations about what the police, etc. can or can't do without a warrant, etc

    Try putting less words in my mouth next time, shit for brains. I almost always say what I think the law strictly says and say that's how it should be applied. I speak almost exclusively about principle and how laws have been contorted (in the legislatures as well as the way they're interpreted in the courts) to pervert their original intent.

    You can have your case law. That's what they fell back on when slavery was legal, when separate but equal was fine and when women were not allowed to vote. It means that the rule of law is fallible, something you can't seem to get your head around.

  • ||

    lol.

    case law matters

    i don't read miranda because the constitution says i have to. i do it because case law does

    when you agree with case law, it's great. when you don't, it's just "follwoing orders"

    unlike you, i choose to live a life where i make a difference and where integrity matters.

    i don't have to agree with all laws, or all case law

    i have to obey them

  • Auric Demonocles||

    and i don't give a flying fuck what you assume.

    Then don't get your panties in a bunch when people assume things. One instance of these things is that you're arguing in the same vein as everyone else on the site.

    i tend to speak precisely,

    I highly doubt that someone who refuses to use proper punctuation and capitalization is being all that precise with their speech.

  • ||

    i will simply speak the truth

    if morons want to make unfounded assumptions, great. but that is part of the reason why so many people falsely misstate and misunderstand my positions

    their prejudice means that they will see what they want to see, not what i type

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Should we not assume you're speaking in English even though everyone else is, since you haven't explicitly confirmed this?

  • ||

    you should read what i write

    if i say "the law is X" only a moron would assume i am saying "i agree with X"

    granted, i spend a lot of time on volokh.com and people don't make such stupid assumptions there, so maybe i give you too much credit

  • Auric Demonocles||



    you should read what i write

    if i say "the law is X" only a moron would assume i am saying "i agree with X"

    granted, i spend a lot of time on volokh.com and people don't make such stupid assumptions there, so maybe i give you too much credit

    Sorry, I can only read English. I'd assume that's what this comment was (and say something along the lines of "of course a website specifically dedicated to legal analysis will be talking about what the law says, just like a website about an ideology with no chance of being implemented will talk about what the law should be"), since it's the language everyone here uses, but I wouldn't want to make an assumption that you were following the language convention of everyone else you were choosing to engage in conversation with.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I know when someone says "The law should be X" and I respond only with "The law says Y" I'm disagreeing with the person.

  • sloopyinca||

    that aside, i most definitely DO think cops should be help accountable for improperly applying the law

    To the same standard the rest of us are? When was the last time you arrested a fellow officer for improperly applying (wrongfully arresting or using excessive force) the law? When was the last time you let an on-duty officer walk for committing a simple infraction you arrested another person in another situation for?

    If the answer is "never," then you're an enabler and a liar. If you claim to have never seen it happen, then you're just a liar. If you actually have, then put up a link to prove it.

    Oh, that's right. You can't post links to substantiate any of your absurd claims. Yet you somehow expect us to believe them, right?

    You're a fucking joke.

  • ||

    yawn

    you can keep rehashing this same stupid "double standards" argument

    but it gets old

    and here's a hint

    1) i can't arrest for an infraction. i can cite
    2) i often issue NONCOPS warnings for both crimes and infractions

    you are amongst the ignorati that view everything through a 5th grader's lens of ARREST ARREST

    you can keep wanking and trolling, but i am not going to devolve to your level

    unlike you, i support my correct legal arguments with cites and facts.

  • sloopyinca||

    Way to dodge the question, asshole.

    I'l ask it a different way: have you ever witnessed a cop who was committing a crime while on duty (or suspected one of committing a crime)? Did you arrest (or detain) him? Have you ever not cited a cop for something you have cited non-cops for?

    They're very simple questions. I don't understand why you can never answer them directly.

  • ||

    i saw a cop slap a guy in the face.

    i told IIU about it and he got 5 days suspension

    i didn't arrest him, but i've never arrested anybody for a mere slap, nor in 20 yrs of police work have i seen a slap or shove prosecuted. it's de minimus as fuck

    he got 5 days, and had a permanent discipline mark on his record, which had serious ramifications on his advancement potential etc

    again, you always concentrate on ARREST, like a 5th grader.

    arrest is not the sole function of my job, and i spend a lot more time giving warnings, and correcting behavior vs. ARRESTING, which is something the anticoppers repeatedly do not understand vis a vis police work

    i've never cited a cop for speeding. i give breaks for speeding all the time, and it's hardly limited to cops

    i did assist in arresting a cop for DUI. i don't give breaks for DUI.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    i've never cited a cop for speeding. i give breaks for speeding all the time, and it's hardly limited to cops

    So all cops get off for speeding, but some noncops don't?

  • sloopyinca||

    So you saw an armed person, acting under color of authority, physically batter an unarmed person and you merely told somebody else about it?

    You'd have made one hell of an assistant football coach at Penn State.

    And is that the only time you ever saw a cop commit a crime in your entire career and let it slide? That was the question.

  • ||

    How does one "correct" someone else's behavior and not feel like a total shit heel about it?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    that sets aside your trollish attempt to claim (wrongly) that i think a cop shouldn't be held accountable if he improperly applies the law.

    Didn't you defend letting cops off the hook for something (I forget what exactly) if they haven't gotten training since the law changed?

  • sloopyinca||

    He sure did. Now watch him try to walk it back.

  • R C Dean||

    Yeah. It was specifically called out, questioned, and confirmed in that thread.

    If you're a cop, you aren't responsible for violating somebody's rights unless you have been specifically trained not to violate their rights.

    Think about the perverse incentive that rule creates.

  • ||

    except that is not what i said

    what i said is that training and past practice are relevant

    that's case law. it's fact. i cited arbitrator reports etc. that prove that

    training matters. i take it seriously. unlike you, i am not some ivory tower ignorant arguing from theory. i am engaged in training, and i am held responsible for how i train, and what i train

    as it should be

  • sloopyinca||

    So you are fully supportive of letting every person go that was convicted of a crime they didn't know they were committing?

    If so, do you vocalize that opinion around the station house? Do you let every person go that says they didn't know their activity was against the law?

    Who are we to know if a cop knows what the new laws are? Are we to take their word for it that they haven't trained themselves? Because if so, then we should do the same for every defendant brought before a judge. Doing otherwise would be...you guessed it...a fucking double-standard.

    BOOM!

  • ||

    seriously. this isn't an argument. it's just you stroking yourself

    and i've never argued what you say i am arguing

    and you continue to make bogus analogies

    really, if you think you are "winning", which is a childish notion - i am interested in discussion and willing to change my mind with evidence - you are interested in peacocking and "one upping" with bullshit, then knock yourself out

    and again, if you want to make analogies to cops use of force, then analogize to CITIZEN arrest incidents, since use of force during arrest cannot be analogized to non arrest situations

    oh, and grow up. seriously. it's sad how petulant and childish you get. " i win i win"

    jesus christ. join the adult world

  • sloopyinca||

    and again, if you want to make analogies to cops use of force, then analogize to CITIZEN arrest incidents, since use of force during arrest cannot be analogized to non arrest situations

    Here is your fatal flaw, asshead. If a cop physically assaults someone pursuant to an unlawful arrest, it is not akin to a citizen doing the same. It is akin to an armed citizen physically assaulting another person, which is felonious assault with the gun possession in commission of a felony an aggravating circumstance.

    You may understand the law, but your sense of equality under it is pretty fucking warped.

  • ||

    not at all

    lie all you want

    i DO think that training is relevant as to accountability

    period

    i am not saying it's dispositive

    i am saying it needs to considered in regards to case law, past precedent and common sense

    but yes- past precedent and training, and i say that AS A TRAINING OFFICER - are exceptionally important (and not just in law enforcement) in how culpable a person is for their Actions

  • Auric Demonocles||

    So then you're arguing that cops SHOULD be given leniency for performing illegal actions because no one told them it was illegal.

  • ||

    i am arguing that what a cop is trained to do and not do is relevant to whether he should be punished, and to what extent he is punished for actions found to be violative of policy or law.

    i advocated for, for instance, my agency to have roll call training in a # of areas, to include the current case law for open carry

    this means we will, PER POLICY be held strictly accountable for violating law/policy vis a vis the right to open carry in WA state.

    i also advocated for stricter criteria for SWAT callouts. which also became policy.

    you are grossly simplifying the issue. but yes, training matters. these are more matters of POLICY than law, e.g the reaching into the car thing (which i have done and will continue to do)

  • Auric Demonocles||

    you are grossly simplifying the issue.
    i am arguing that what a cop is trained to do and not do is relevant to whether he should be punished, and to what extent he is punished for actions found to be violative of policy or law

    Here's what I "simplified" it to:

    you're arguing that cops SHOULD be given leniency for performing illegal actions because no one told them it was illegal

    "whether he should be punished, and to what extent he is punished for actions" =="leniency"

    "actions found to be violative of policy or law"== "performing illegal actions"

    "what a cop is trained to do and not do"== "no one told them it was illegal"

  • Zeb||

    Non-police never get any training on what the law is. Do you think that is relevant to accountability? What do you think the law should say on the subject? Can ignorance of the law be an excuse?

  • ||

    false

    non police, e.g security guards, store owners, citizens who attend police academy are trained in the law.

    as are people who take firearms courses from me and many other instructors

    cops are expected to enforce the law, and thus cops have a duty to do it correctly

    and yes, if TRAINING is not done properly, that is and should be relevant to culpability, both criminally and legally

    i don't even carry concealed (most of the time). my chances of having to use deadly force off duty are infinitessimal

    my chances of having to use force on duty are great, and i am accountable for doing it properly, and my agency is accountable for proper training

    as it should be

  • sloopyinca||

    that sets aside your trollish attempt to claim (wrongly) that i think a cop shouldn't be held accountable if he improperly applies the law.

    Oh, so you never said on here the other day that if a cop applies a law incorrectly because his department didn't train him on a change or a new law that he shouldn't be punished but that the department should be forced to train officers?

    what i said, and this backed up by actual case law and cites is that as a general principle, failure to train can be a mitigating or sometimes an excusing factor when an officer misapplies the law, or policy.

    But in the case of lawbreakers, ignorance is no excuse, right?

    Go die in a fire, you double-standard-loving douchenozzle.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    What was that topic that he explicitly said "this is a double standard and I support it"?

  • ||

    there are several

    i support, for example, cops having qualified immunity

    that's a double standard. i have it. noncops don't.

  • T||

    what i said, and this backed up by actual case law and cites is that as a general principle, failure to train can be a mitigating or sometimes an excusing factor when an officer misapplies the law, or policy.

    As opposed to the rule that applies to us proles, where I don't even have to know a law exists but I can be convicted of violating it. And you wonder why we think there's a double standard? If cops don't have training they can't be liable? Really? Ignorance of the law is what, again?

  • ||

    again, T, the analogy would be when cops are making an arrest vs. when citizens arrests are made

    that is the analogy you fail to make

    cops can and are convicted for violating laws just like others.

    but when it comes to ENFORCING laws, we have qualified immunity

    "proles" don't

    that's a fair tradeoff, imo, but you may disagree

    regardless, a fair analogy is ARREST vs. arrest. compare the use of force used by "citizens' to make citizens arrest to cops use of force. THAT is analogous

    and something you, and others fail to do

  • Auric Demonocles||

    No, a fair analogy is kidnapping vs an illegal arrest by a cop.

    Though that's actually not an analogy since it's the same thing.

  • sloopyinca||

    but when it comes to ENFORCING laws, we have qualified immunity

    "proles" don't

    that's a fair tradeoff, imo, but you may disagree

    Did a group of guys write somewhere about "all men are created equal" or something like that? And IIRC, there was something called the 14th Amendment that resolved the matter.

    Oh, but you'll rely on case law and union contracts that pervert any sense of equality because it grants you extrajudicial powers and places you above the laws that apply to us.

    But you fail to realize why you are despised on here. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

  • ||

    if i wasn't despised here, i wouldn't be telling the truth

    that aside, plenty of people have posted appreciative and complimentary posts about my being here

    but i don't expect love from KKK'ers or cop haters.

    if i was getting it, that would be evidence i wasn't speaking truth

  • ||

    Actually no. If you are charged with arresting or citing people for breaking the law, regardless of whether or not they even know the law exists, you damn well have to know the laws and when they are changed.

    Jesus tap dancing Christ.

  • AuH2O||

    This man didn't fact check enough. The Obamas steal old people's medicine for fuel, and are therefore robots. Sam Waterson told me so.

    Wait a second... denying the existence of robots... this man is a robot! Thank god I have my Old Glory insurance!

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/2340

  • ||

    since the ignorati can't distinguish between normative and descriptive, if I WERE king and could write the constitution

    1) cops would less search and seizure power
    2) drugs would be legal. period
    3) prostitution would be legal
    4) self defense laws for ALL would be strong, and the burden would be on the state to disprove self defense, and the state would be forced to pay defense costs if found to wrongfully prosecute
    5) NO search of motor vehicles "incident to arrest" (which is the law in WA)
    6) only rarely would search warrants be servable at night
    7) noknock warrants, would require exceptional circumstances
    8) SWAT would be subject to much stricter criteria
    9) people could record cops and vice versa with impunity
    10) NYPD would be punished for constitutional law violations pursuant to their stop and frisk program
    11) the constitution would recognize a right to privacy (like my state does)

  • sloopyinca||

    ...and until you are king you will perpetuate the two-class system that makes citizens responsible for knowing all laws all the time but does not hold police officers to the same standard.

    Live in the real world, asshole. It's what you are judged by, not what you "would do if you were king."

  • ||

    there's that false analogy again

    again, not analogizing arrest situtions to citizen arrest situtions.

    unlike you, i make real decisions in the real world that have real consequences and i help people and make the world a better place, like most cops

    you spout your opinion, but you make no change in the world. you don't DO anything

    engaging in a circle jerk with other bigots doesn't make the world a better place

    if you were a little more mature you would realize you could learn from somebody with vastly more experience and knowledge in various topics surrounding constitutional law, police use of force, etc. and make yourself at least better armed with info.

    you won't do that, because accepting that you could learn from a cop is not something your bigotry will allow

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Sloopy didn't mention arrest once in the post you are responding to.

    engaging in a circle jerk with other bigots

    Are "bigots" the ones who

    1) want everyone treated according to the same set of rules
    2) judge people based on the actions they take

    or those that don't?

    doesn't make the world a better place

    But defending police power, giving preferential treatment to other cops, and locking up people for doing drugs does?

  • sloopyinca||

    unlike you, i make real decisions in the real world that have real consequences and i help people and make the world a better place, like most cops

    Do you have any idea how many peoples' lives I improve every day? And it's all done voluntarily by each party.

    engaging in a circle jerk with other bigots doesn't make the world a better place

    That "circle jerk" is getting larger every day by the way, so I am doing some good.

    if you were a little more mature you would realize you could learn from somebody with vastly more experience and knowledge in various topics surrounding constitutional law, police use of force, etc. and make yourself at least better armed with info.

    I do this all the time. Often on here and often with my brother-in-law that happens to have gotten his JD at the top of his class at Northwestern.

    you won't do that, because accepting that you could learn from a cop is not something your bigotry will allow

    I learn a lot from cops. Like what not to do when one of your co-workers is assaulting another human being.

  • Brutus||

    I like all of those but #11. I think it's too broad. A right to privacy to do...what?

    And I might add that it's dangerous to define state power negatively, in terms of rights.

  • Jeff||

    Wow. Shia LaBeouf really let himself go.

  • ||

    Must be all those people he's been eating.

  • Invisible Finger||

    "Third-rate musician covets fourth-rate government."

  • The Late P Brooks||

    More pidgin English Copspeak sermonizing from Fearless Fosdick, The Precautionary Principle Libertarian, I see.

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