Why Didn’t Tim Pawlenty Attack RomneyCare?

Mitt Romney doesn’t seem like the sort of person who’d respond to criticism by confronting his critic and saying, “You want to say that to my face, huh?” At last night’s Republican primary debate in New Hampshire, he didn’t need to: Moderator and CNN anchor John King did it for him.

Indeed, King practically begged Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty to go on the offensive against the former Massachusetts governor. Over the weekend, Pawlenty had coined the phrase ObamneyCare to suggest that Romney’s health care overhaul and Obama’s law are essentially one in the same. But despite King’s repeated nudges, Pawlenty would not repeat the charge. Instead, he backed away from his earlier criticism, suggesting that he was only repeating what the White House had already said—that RomneyCare provided the model for ObamaCare—and only in response to a specific question.

Going into the debate, conventional wisdom was that health care was the area where Pawlenty had the most leverage to draw clear distinctions between his position and Romney’s. So why didn’t he follow up on his earlier attacks? Perhaps he’s just a nice guy and, once he finally took the stage, decided he didn’t want to go through with it. Perhaps he had already decided he didn’t want to go there, and stumbled because of how much King pushed him. Perhaps he just froze and couldn’t remember whatever phrasing he’d prepared in advance.

All of those answers could be true. But it might also be the case that Pawlenty realized that in attacking Romney, he’d invite a discussion about his own prior interest in health care legislation driven by mandates and regulations. Politico has the details:

Not so long ago, Pawlenty was praising Romney as an “unbelievably bright and nimble and gifted public policy leader in Massachusetts.”

“We have been studying, very diligently, the Massachusetts model, about how that would apply to Minnesota, some of the unique differences, advantages and disadvantages to Minnesota,” he said at a Minneapolis health reform forum in 2006, discussing fixes to the broken system.

At that conference, to the surprise of many, Pawlenty proposed that Minnesota “chart a path toward universal coverage,” starting with thousands of uninsured children. Pointing out that mandated automobile coverage still leaves a double-digit portion of Minnesota’s population uninsured, Pawlenty said “a mandate by itself is not much of a solution.”

There was some qualifying language: “In Minnesota as to the access issue, I believe we should move towards universal coverage. Everybody should be in a health plan of some sort. How we get there becomes important, I think a mandate by itself is potentially helpful, but is not an answer by itself.”

Then in 2007, he advocated setting up an insurance exchange — now a key piece of the federal reform that he now says interferes with the free market.

It’s obviously not fair to say that Pawlenty’s interest in universal coverage driven by mandate combined with some other sort of regulation or subsidies is somehow equivalent to what Romney did. Romney put years of legislative and political effort into passing a law that explicitly paved the way for ObamaCare. Pawlenty merely voiced an interest in following Romney’s lead. But all the same, that interest was there.

And while he’s no longer in favor of a mandate, he still likes some of the insurance regulations included in both RomneyCare and ObamaCare: As Dave Weigel reported yesterday, he agrees with the way both laws require insurers to sell coverage to those with pre-existing conditions at regulated rates. But talk to any health policy wonk and they’ll tell you that those regulations don’t work without a mandate. Insurance markets deteriorate fairly quickly. It’s not enough to strike down the mandate. As I’ve said before, half a repeal is no repeal at all.

Like a number of Republicans in the decade or so following the failure of HillaryCare, Pawlenty seemed fine with the idea of a mandate in the context of a broader effort to regulate and subsidize the health insurance market. Even though he’s turned on the mandate, that’s necessarily going to make it somewhat more difficult to criticize Romney for passing a law that plenty of Republican policy wonks and politicians agreed was a pretty good idea at the time.

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  • ||

    Because he's a pathetic, simpering loser?

  • Res Publica Americana||

    You're just a butthurt redneck from, like, FLORIDA OR ONE OF THOSE OTHER FAR-OFF EXISTENTIAL DARKNESSES, who, like, totally hates old people and Asian kids. Bamitt Obamney made Massachusetts the greatest place in the whole wide world, and you libert-ARYANS just don't appreciate it.

    I'll go back to sucking my grandmother's transplanted penis like the fucking single-digit IQ cock-muncher statist fuckbag that I am.

    /Example

    I've met a couple of people that actually believe that. What is the world coming to?

  • Almanian||

    Res, you get today's "Kegfull of Awesome!" paragraph award.

    Well done!

  • ||

    Loser. First thing that came to my mind, too.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Wow, Res... you should sell that post as a cut'n'paste E-Z template. Posters at places like DU and MediaMatters would lap it up... allow them to save typing time so they can get on with The Good Work of raising taxes on eeeevul rich people, for instance.

  • ||

    The one thing that could have made that PR exercise worthwhile was a 6-on-1 attack on Romney over RomneyCare. And it didn't happen.

    What's wrong with these people? Don't they understand that right now, their main function is to entertain us?

  • ||

    Hmm... 6-on-1, you say...

  • tarran||

    No! NO! NOOOOOOOOOO!

    Sugarfree, It took me years to recover my sex drive after reading your fanfic about Krugman and Ezra Klein!

    For the love of God, please don't do this to us again!!!! I implore you!

  • ||

    Finish him, NutraSweet! All it will take is a bukkake story about Bachmann and the rest of them!

    Wait, that might turn SIV on. Be careful.

  • hazeeran||

    He shouldn't write it 'till we know if Christie's running!

  • Wind Rider||

    Doesn't matter - whatever other characters he includes, the scene with Henry Waxman as the pizza delivery guy stays in.

  • ||

    "Yeah, I have a meat pizza with extra meat for Amanda McGroin... oh, sure... I'll take a look at your Copier/Cable TV/Pool while I'm here. And yes, I'm into nostril play. Rowr."

  • ||

    Look away. Look away now...

  • Cliché Bandit||

    DAMNIT!

    You realize "Look Away" means "I can't stop reading now"

    like telling my 2 year old "don't touch that"

  • ||

    Newt ran his tongue around Tim’s gaping anus in a lazy spiral, seeking the center to dart and dip within. Tim was still strapped down ass up, offered like a ruined buffet. Blood leaked in slow rivulets down his scrotum; his wrung out penis glued to his leg with dried semen. The room stank of sweat and shit.

    Michelle emitted a long, rumbling queef as she sat up. Her startled eyes narrowed for just a moment before springing open again. Mitt was masturbating furiously, intent on ejaculating again in Tim’s hair. Michelle crawled over and began to lick Mitt’s flailing scrotum. He smacked her with his free hand and she tumbled backwards, rolling on to Ron with an inhuman grunt.

    Ron was nude, wearing nothing but bright purple surgical gloves. He had assisted Gary in stuffing Rick’s testicles into Tim rectum early in the night, and then passed out. Ron had snored through the quadruple anal, a feat of sexual acrobatics and contortion only attempted once, years before in the pleasure pits of Columbus, Ohio. Two people had died that day and one lost the use of his penis, forcing him to fuck on crutches for the rest of his life. The Ass-Pleasure Overseers had declared the position impossible.

    New Hampshire had proven them wrong.

    Herman had proven them wrong.

  • WTF||

    Oh, dear God! Make it stop, make it stop, just make the pictures in my head STOP..sweet screaming Jesus make it stop.....*whimper*

  • Almanian||

    See, this right here is why I come to reason.com

  • Jim||

    I guarantee this is the only political site with fanpron of this level. And I just cannot figure out why my dad won't come back to the site...

  • ||

    *one in AND the same

  • Almanian||

    CAPTION!!!

    "You're a loser!"

    "No - you're a loser!"

    "No - YOU'RE a loser!"

    "No - YOU'RE a loser!"

    "No...."

  • ||

    "I piss on your spit!"

    "I shit on your piss!"

    "And we are friends again!"

  • hazeeran||

    "I'm not your guy, pal!"

  • ||

    I'm not your buddy, pal!

  • ||

    Whoops. let me try that again. I need more caffeine.

    I'm not your pal, buddy!

  • ||

    I propose a new format, which I shall call "The Maw of Truth".

    Seven men enter, no man leaves!

  • ||

    Is that like that thingee where a Nazgûl gets killed by a woman?

  • hazeeran||

    *Romney's pic* "hayyy grrl"

  • T||

    The fact the all the rest of the candidates didn't beat Romney over the head and shoulders with MassCare gives me great doubt that the efenants will put up a serious contender.

  • ||

    It wasn't meant to be a debate. This was about the Rs being nice to each other and bashing the D. The Rs will have plenty of time to shred each other as we get closer to 2012. I think Pawlenty was playing nice because they all agreed to play nice for this "debate".

  • ||

    They should just do a sleepover, and paint each others' toenails and stuff.

  • ||

    As I said Sunday, after listening to Pawlenty on the teevee, he sounds like a mopey kid who can't understand why he didn't get picked first for kickball.

  • Brett L||

    Yes. This was a "don't fuckup while trying to look presidential" debate. Although I don't know why. They'll shake more hands in Iowa than there were R primary voters watching the debate.

  • Res Publica Americana||

  • hazeeran||

    Red Letter Media's review of the prequels is rip splitting:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hpJzK9NzTI

  • Res Publica Americana||

    That was kick-ass -- roflmao

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    ^^ xD

  • hazeeran||

    Don't even get me started on MST3K, lmao

  • Fluffy||

    I think Pawlenty has concluded that the fix is in and Romney will be the nominee so now he's running for Vice President.

  • ||

    I think that Pawlenty is jealous, because he was never able to pass a similar program in MN.

  • ||

    That is a scary thought. Not to go Pauline Kael but I have never met a single Romney voter. Everyone I knows loaths the guy. Who and where are all these supporters of his?

    As much as I dislike Perry, he might be the only thing to save the world from Romney.

  • Brett L||

    By "save" you mean something possibly less evil. Perry has more or less followed the same course as governor that Bush did. And you see how well that predicted his behavior as President. I'm afraid Perry wouldn't have GHWB's old buddies around to provide adult supervision.

  • ||

    I can't for the life of me see a single reason why Perry is worth a shit.

  • ||

    Honestly, I think I am going BAchman. I don't care that she is a socon. The Presidency has only a marginal affect on social issues anyway. And she seems to be the only one up there with any balls.

    And liberals and media hate her every bit as much as they hate Palin. But they can't quite go bizerk and start eating the furniture the way they did with Palin because they can't do that twice.

  • MNG||

    "I don't care that she is a socon."

    I would think that is a feature, not a bug for you.

  • ||

    Like most things you think, it would be wrong.

  • hazeeran||

    My family by and large voted for him in the '08 primaries but I think they're all for Cain now. So I haven't met anyone for *this* round who supports Romney.

  • CrackertyAssCracker||

    I'm starting to fear this too.

    Perry has been making an effort to be more tea-partyish without going out of bounds of "respectable republican", and he's done a pretty good job.

    I'm waiting to see how he'll vote on the Interstate-lightbulb thing. It's less "in your face" than the TSA-groping law, but still sort of a middle finger to DC.

  • hazeeran||

    This soured me on Perry: http://www.texastribune.org/te.....nal-guard/

    Instead of nipping the drug violence in the bud by bringing the green stuff in the light of the legal market, he wants to militarize the border. For Perry, keeping immoral victimless crimes in place is so important it's worth almost anything.

  • ||

    I lived in Texas under Perry. I hate his guts. This is the assclown who thought arresting drunks in bars because they might drive was okay.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure they use his picture next to the definition of "pandering kleptocratic crony capitalist social conservative."

    Perry or Romney? Jeebus on a crutch, I honestly couldn't say which is worse.

  • ||

    And you guys wonder why I like Palin. Just who exactly is better out of this group? Yeah Johnson and Paul. But they are not a threat to take the nomination.

  • MNG||

    "And you guys wonder why I like Palin."

    Like? There's a point where infatuation gets creepy John. Regarding Palin you can see that point, look in your rear view mirror.

  • ||

    So if you defend a politician from rediculous attacks, you are obsessed? Yeah, that makes sense.

    It is called "projection" MNG. Look it up. You do it almost as well as Tony.

  • MNG||

    John, regarding Palin you crossed the "defend a politician from rediculous attacks" line long ago and are now entering "restraining order" town.

  • ||

    That is rediculous and you know it. You really are off your meds today.

  • MNG||

    First borrowing from Epi, now Al. Get your own material!

    Let me borrow from someone then.

    John you know you love Palin unless you provez you dont by citing five comments you made critisising her! You are just a dishonest fuckity hack dishonest everyone knows dishonest partisan Reason is partisan partisan liberal MSM partisan hack!

    Jesus this is fun.

  • ||

    I like Palin. So what? I generally agree with her. I wish she hadn't done the reality show. She should have stopped her daughter from going on TV. She should have also told her to keep her legs closed. But what are you going to do?

  • hazeeran||

    I dislike her voice and her personality generally but she's 1. less statist than Romnlenty (how are they fundamentally different?) and 2. more willing to let the establishment Republicans sit and swivel.

    http://www.politico.com/news/s.....55970.html

  • ||

    The 2008 Colorado caucuses were filled with Romney voters (I was there voting for Ron Paul).

  • Sparky||

    I think they're all looking across the room for a potential running mate. If the hate gets too harsh people are going to question the VP picks. I wouldn't be surprised if the Republican ticket ends up being Romney/Bachmann.

  • ||

    That is a fair bet God help us.

  • ||

    Pawlenty didn't attack Romney, because Pawlenty knows his own record is just as bad.

    Pawlenty passed his own socialized medicine program in MN. Yes, it only applies to children, but this is the party of Reagan. During the debate surrounding the passage of Medicare, Reagan had this to say:

    One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine.

    It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project, most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.

    Socialized medicine for children is no different than socialized medicine for seniors. If you believe in Reagan Conservatism, you have to believe that both programs lead to the same place.

    Pawlenty also passed a statist energy bill in 2007, placing a mandate on energy companies to produce 25% of their electricity from renewables. No one has brought this part of T-Paw's record up yet. I think he wants it to stay that way.

  • ||

    Then screw Pawlenty as well. All of these clowns keep finding ways for me to hate their guts. At this point, why not Cain?

  • ||

    Because Cain is a bigot, who wants to use a religious test when appointing people to his cabinet. I mean, I get. All Muslims are terrorists, just like all blacks are gang banging, criminals.

  • ||

    And how many Muslims are in the current administration? That is hardly a big issue.

  • ||

    You mean besides the President?

  • ||

    Touche!

  • MNG||

    Bigot finds humor in bigotry, film at 11.

  • ||

    Everyone on this board is just a big meanee aren't they MNG?

  • Almanian||

    Mung, did you forget your meds today? You're like Tony or something.

    SNAP OUT OF IT! You'd been pretty good for a few months.

    Today - you're just bringing BAGFULs of teh stoopid

  • MNG||

    I get it, Obama has a muslim name so he's a muslim! Why, that's totally different than Cain's anti-Muslim thinking.

  • ||

    Humorless statist is humorless.

  • Fluffy||

    Come on, I laughed.

    That was just a zinger.

    Do you really think RC Dean and John are bigots?

  • MNG||

    There's similar thinking in Cain's anti-Muslim rant and the meme that Obama is a muslim, and the Right likes to play with that meme, even if done jokingly.

  • ||

    So it is okay for people on the Left to call Bachman and Paul crazy, which they do about every day. But wobetide the person who jokes about the Black Jesus being Muslim. Got it.

  • MNG||

    Because calling someone crazy=suspicion of all muslims.

    Gotcha

    Youz is a parisan hack, fuck you, fuckity fuck fuck, just like Hitler who was on the right but now the left you are as bad as Shirley Sherrod who was bad on the tape but is now good on the tape now bad. Everyone is laughing at you and no one is your friend and you are dishonest and won't you name five republicans you don't like or else you are a partisan?

  • ||

    Yeah. I think calling anyone who disagrees with you poltically, is about the same as being susupicious of someone because of their religion. It is called stereotyping.

  • MNG||

    No, anyone who disagrees with you politically is a "fucking dishonest partisan hack", right?

    Hell, you think someone who has a disagreement with on macro-economic policy is as crazy as someone who invokes prayer and supplication to a diety to induce action by said diety in our nation's politics.

  • Fluffy||

    Come on, Dean's joke is OBVIOUSLY about how stupid it is to think Obama is a Muslim.

    He's doig shtick about what a dumb birther would say to the above request for a list of administration Muslims.

    What, we're not even allowed to MOCK birthers now?

  • ||

    No Fluffy. We are not. Because when we laugh at birthers and people who think Obama is a Muslim, we are not treating their bigotry seriously and making a joke out of it.

    Right MNG

  • ||

    There's a point where infatuation gets creepy

  • ||

    Like the Rod Stewart song? No wait, that's crappy, not creepy.

  • spambot||

    If this is the best they (Republicans) have to offer, get ready for 4 more years of Obama. Pretty much every one of them could fuck up a cup of coffee.

  • ||

    I don't agree. I think Obama is in extremely big trouble. So if an idiot wins the nomination, an (another, really) idiot is going to be president.

  • Brett L||

    This is different from all the other elections how?

  • ||

    No, I don't mean an idiot winning is unusual; I just mean that one of those people (or another who hasn't announced or didn't show) will be our next president.

    Excepting Johnson and Paul from my displeasure, of course.

  • rather||

    I thought he may not have attacked because it would signal Romney is the leading candidate.

  • ||

    Bloomberg just replayed Bachman's quote about "As President, I will not rest until I repeal Obamacare."

    Uh, Ms B, aren't you currently a member of the House of Representatives, the most appropriate forum in which to conduct this exercise? Do you go to the podium every day to introduce legislation repealing Obamacare?

    If not, why not?

  • ||

    The House has passed a repeal of Obamacare. It was one of the first things they did. But it takes the Senate and the President to make it law.

    So what is the point of intrroducing a bill that has already passed the House?

    http://www.politico.com/news/s.....47831.html

  • ||

    Keep doing it. Attach it to everything. Force the issue.

    Or just take some token action that won't solve the problem.

  • ||

    Bachman probably would do that if it were up to her. That is why the liberals call her crazy.

  • MNG||

    "That is why the liberals call her crazy."

    Well, maybe more things like the black helicopters...

  • Fluffy||

    I think she's crazy because she said that gay marriage is the most important issue to face the United States in the last 30 years.

    And because she said that America is currently in a state of anarchy and utter lawlessness from one ocean to the other.

    And because she said that if everyone just prayed and confessed their sins, God would stop gay marriage laws from passing.

    She's just kind of nuts. If anyone came on here and posted in Michelle Bachmann's voice, even you would think they were a nut, John.

  • MNG||

    "If anyone came on here and posted in Michelle Bachmann's voice, even you would think they were a nut, John."

    Unless she were a hot lady conservative, or John himself.

  • Fluffy||

    You know what?

    John doesn't use Bachmann's voice.

    Or Palin's, for that matter.

    Bachmann expresses herself like a John Waters film parody of a Krazy Khristian, and Palin's faux populism is pretty far beneath John at this point. He'll bitch about "elites" occasionally but I never notice him trying to deliberately make himself appear to be some kind of semirural Andy Griffith rube.

  • MNG||

    "but I never notice him trying to deliberately make himself appear to be some kind of semirural Andy Griffith rube."

    He just admires that in his politicians.

  • ||

    I loved the level of commitment on display last night, against gay marriage. Everyone, except Ron Paul, made sure to remind everyone that this issue is so important, that we should amend the Constitution to define marriage.

    Amending the Constitution to define marriage, is of course, much more important than amending it to define the limits of the Commerce Clause, the 10th amendment, entitlements, the commander-in-chief power. Nope, these pale in their level of importance, when compared to something as crucial as the definition of marriage.

  • MNG||

    Did they say they wanted an amendment that would prohibit states that wanted to define marriage however they want from doing so or just a DOMA type amendment?

  • ||

    They wanted the amendment to define marriage at the federal level. They didn't get into any nuance, although I suppose the amendment could be worded in a way that merely prevented states from having to accept another states definition.

    It's still dopey. If we are going to use the constitution to define words, let's start with the words "regulate" and "commerce". Both have much greater significance than the definition of marriage.

  • hazeeran||

    Thankfully the office of the President has no *official* role in amending the Constitution. It's all the states and congress.

  • ||

    The gay marriage thing is typical political hyperbole. What politican hasn't said this or that pet issue isnt' the most important thing ever? That is what politicians do.

    I would have to see the context of the second statement. Was she talking about borders? What did she mean by "Anarchy".

    The third statement is nuts. But show me a link to where she said it. That strikes me as urban myth. But if you show me a link, fair enough that is crazy.

    But is it no more crazy than "if we pass the stimulus unemployment won't go to 8%."

  • MNG||

    You think saying that if everyone prayed and confessed their sins God would stop gay marriage is equally as crazy as someone saying that a stimulus program would mitigate unemployment problems? I know you might think the latter incorrect, but it's equally crazy as the former?

    WTF?

  • MNG||

    Let me try to channel John here:

    John, I kant beleeve you. This is why everyone here doosnt like you. You will never critisize someone from your party. You are a dishonest partisan hack and I am wasting my time argueing with you. Now I await your reply so i can reply to it and so on for 100 posts.

  • ||

    Yes MNG. It is just bad form to ask for a link or a citation. You would never do anything like that.

  • ||

    There's a point where infatuation gets creepy

  • ||

    Yes. MNG. Thinking the stimulus program would keep unemployment below 8% was just as crazy. If anything it is more crazy. We have never tried having the nation confess all their sins. So how do we know it wouldn't result in the end of gay marriage? In contrast, we have tried the stimulus and we know it didn't do anything for unemployment.

  • MNG||

    You are a partizan hack. Now it is clear for everune to see. Fuck you John I used to think you were bad now I now you are dsihonest. Everyone is laughing at you. What else can expect from a elitist like you!

    Nasme five Republicans you hate to prove you are not non-partisan!

  • Fluffy||

  • MNG||

    Get ready for the goalposts to move.

    3
    2
    1

  • Fluffy||

    http://www.thebachmannrecord.c.....recod.html

    She also has apparently asserted that she considers it child abuse if school districts hire teachers who are gay, AND that the reason the gay teenage suicide rate is high is because gay kids kill themselves because they can't stand the wrongness of their own actions.

  • MNG||

    fluffy

    C'mon, that's no crazier than supporting minimum wage laws!

  • ||

    If she said it, then yeah that is pretty crazy. That is the only link you have? How do we know that is legit? It is like all of those fake Rush Limbaugh quotes that are floating around as fact. Most of the quotes in you link are un sourced quotes from radio interviews.

    Considering how much people like MNG hate Bachman, I am not really sure what to think about that site, especially since I have no idea who made that web site or where their information came from.

  • MNG||

    "especially since I have no idea who made that web site or where their information came from."

    They might not have the sterling track record of John's usual sources Brietbart and Drudge.

  • ||

    It is terrible how Breitbart hacked and framed Weiner. And Drudge just links to other news sources you half wit.

    Now go away the adults are talking.

  • MNG||

    "It is terrible how Breitbart hacked and framed Weiner."

    Like Colbert said, he's 1 for 4!

  • ||

    What is that site? It doesn't even have a root site. It is no better than quoting a Reason comment.

  • Fluffy||

    John if you highlight the text of the quote and google it, it's in other places.

  • ||

    Fair enough. I will trust you. I don't feel like googling. Wow unlike Palin, Bachman has actually said crazy shit.

    Again, though, what is she going to do? All the culture war stuff is at the state level. She does seem to believe some nutty things. But they are nutty things about stuff that she wouldn't have much power over as President.

    The rest of them seem to believe nutty things about things that they would have power over as President. Look at it this way, if the President actually did something about the size and scope of government, would you care if they were having Pagan rituals in the White House? I am not sure I would.
    And if not that, why this?

    It sounds terrible to say, "yeah she is kind of crazy, but she is the best available". But it is kind of ture.

  • MNG||

    "I don't feel like googling."

    It's not so bad, they correct for spelling.

  • MNG||

    And here's the backpedal.

    Familiar ground, eh John?

  • ||

    MNG, I never denied it. I just ask for a link. And when fluffy provided one, I said "yeah, she is kind of crazy". It is called admitting the obvious after it has been shown to you. And it is something you have never once done on here.

  • Jim||

    And, John, she would have about as much control over KULTURE WAR as the Muslim in Chief (I keed, Minge, I keed) has over TARP and STIMULUS. That is, he can use the bully pulpit to recommend it, and sign it if congress comes up with something. Bachman could do something similiar; "I hate gays, so I want congress to pass anti-gay legislation, which I will sign when it comes to my desk."

    Remember, neither Bush/Cheney nor Obama created TARP or the bailouts by executive fiat. They had a (mostly) compliant congress come up with it, and they signed it. If Bachman really, truly believes the things she's quoted as saying, she could do the same with culture war legislation.

    On the upside, the concentration camps will be extremely good from an interior design perspective. Good use of space and colors, etc.

  • Fluffy||

    Look at it this way, if the President actually did something about the size and scope of government, would you care if they were having Pagan rituals in the White House?

    That's a pretty big If.

  • ||

    It is a pretty big IF fluffy. But the rest of them don't even give us an "if". These are truly desparate times.

    Honestly, you have convinced me Bachman is a little nuts. And in spite of that, she still is probably the best of the six up there last night. And she is way better than the current President.

    Our political class has pretty much hit rock bottom.

  • ||

    I stand corrected. Better than five of the six. I would take Paul over her. But honestly, gun to your, even knowing what you know about her, would you vote for Romney, Pawlenty, Cain or Santorum over her? I wouldn't.

  • Fluffy||

    I would take Bachmann OR Palin over Romney, Cain, Pawlenty, Santorum, or Obama.

  • ||

    The sad fact is that it appears that Palin is considerably less nuts that Bachman. Bachman might actually be what they accuse Palin of being. But since the media shot their wad destroying Palin, Bachman very well may fly under the radar and get elected. Someone is going to become the "anyone but Romney" pick. And it may be Bachman.

  • ||

    Bachmann was busted spying from a hiding place in the bushes at a gay rights rally here in Minnesota a few years ago.

  • ||

    ""But is it no more crazy than "if we pass the stimulus unemployment won't go to 8%."""

    So Obama style crazy can get your vote?

  • ||

    It was funny watching them leap over one another, to try to answer the question. You would think that CNN was handing out a trophy for intolerance.

  • Brett L||

    Can I just ask how Bachmann got in without being an official candidate until just that night while Johnson got shunned? Did CNN explain that any way except ratings.

  • sarcasmic||

    Maybe because his name sounds like boiled corn meal mush?

  • Cruz||

    Cain reminds me of Al Sharpton. And it's not just because he's black. The guy has the balls to get up there and never actually say anything. He just inserts catchphrases like "Common Sense Solutions" and thus having appeared to answer the question to only the dumbest of Americans. He's gonna win.

  • ||

    Give me platitudes or give me death!

  • Ted S.||

    Cain needs to suggest that Eric Holder masturbated over a picture of that girl to whom Anthony Weiner sent the seminude photos of himself. That would make him analogous to Mr. Sharpton.

  • Robert||

    I can't blame people for having promoted some form of socialized medicine at a time when socialized medicine seemed inevitable and lacking any great backlash to it, and where the form they promoted was intended as a less painful compromise form of accession to the inevitable.

    Now that it's here, I don't blame them for wanting to do the only thing they can to be on the opposition side.

    We hire politicians basically as our negotiators and mediators. You shouldn't blame them for doing the job.

  • ||

    If they won't admit they made a mistake, I will blame them. Unless and until Romney gets up and begs the country for forgivness for creating Obamney care, he can go to hell.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    even after that he can go to hell. It is not like he is a shining example of principles but for Romneycare.

  • OO||

    john - is ur judgement better than the massachuttes electorate who approve of romneycare?

  • ||

    Considering the results of Romneycare and the economic and fiscal state of Mass and the fact that the electorate elects people like Devel Patrick and Barney Frank, YES.

  • .||

    And particularly the fact that they kept Kennedy in office for years.

  • Fluffy||

    I actually hire politicians to knife the other guy in the throat or die trying.

  • Robert||

    But that's as dumb as it would be IRL.

  • Fluffy||

    And hiring politicians as mediators and negotiators is working so great?

  • Almanian||

    Fluffy, I find your ideas intriguing, and am interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

  • Fluffy||

    I find you utterly boring and wish you would choke on a newsletter.

  • Almanian||

    *sad face*

  • Fluffy||

    *High fives all around*

  • Fluffy||

    *takes dump in Almanian's mailbox*

  • Almanian||

    NOW THAT'S JUST UNCALLED FOR, FLUFFY!

  • .||

    (goddamned cat!)

  • Cliché Bandit||

    I didnt see the debate so I have decided to vote for HERCULE TRIATHOLON SAVININ...why the fuck not. Goes to my cinder block theory.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    If we add the POTUS and SCOTUS we get to 545...I can make a nice pyrimid with 545 cinder blocks.

  • ||

    Cinder blocks? I was hoping for heads.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    same thing in this case

  • Boxbot||

    [TRIATHLON] '12

  • Almanian||

    [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]! [Herc]!

    I'm in if Warty doesn't run (I raised my hand to be his Propaganda Minister if he runs)

  • ||

    Secretary of [State] would be more appropriate.

  • Brett L||

    As long as [HERC] continues to use the Vietnamese to undermine the [PRC], I'm in.

  • Ska||

    I've decided to imagine that Herman Cain is Herc, and will imagine him standing at a podium in a toga reading these insane, long-ass diatribes.

  • Robert||

    Any place have that "debate" archived? I didn't see it either, except a couple highlights at cnn.com.

  • ||

    youtube

  • Kommunist Kaptain Kanadian||

    "he agrees with the way both laws require insurers to sell coverage to those with pre-existing conditions at regulated rates. But talk to any health policy wonk and they’ll tell you that those regulations don’t work without a mandate."

    it's almost as if such a mandate were...necessary and proper to enact such a regulation...

  • MJ||

    It's almost as if you need to do something authoritarian to make economically foolish regukation work, then the government should not have the authority to enact that regulation in the first place.

  • ||

    Ron Paul 2012!

  • xaM||

    Ron Pual's Cock 2012!!1one!!1

  • MNG||

    It looks like the Seven Dwarves more every day...The Right just needs to nominate someone that won't scare off 1/3 of the electorate off the bat or who will not be open to ridicule for flip flopping like Romney, but it's looking harder for them to do that every day.

  • ||

    Concern troll is concerned.

  • MNG||

    Look, John does read Epi's posts!

    But you might want to replace concerned with elated, Obama has his problems imo but I don't want what the GOP is selling. I'm glad about their candidate struggles.

  • ||

    I hate to steal someone else's material. But sometimes only one thing is appropriate. Stop concern trolling. No one cares.

  • MNG||

    John, I think you are terrified Obama is going be re-elected.

  • ||

    I think I am terrified for the future of the country. If Obama gets re-elected, that just means his and his finger prints alone are on the collapse. If the Republicans put some big government half wit in there, they will just make the collapse bi-partisan.

    We have to elect someone who will actually take drastic measures. The party is pretty irrelevent.

    But I doubt Barrack W. Hoover stands much of a chance next year. As a matter of fact, I still only give it 50/50 he doesn't quit and let the Dems run someone else.

  • MNG||

    "I still only give it 50/50 he doesn't quit"

    Palin-esque?

  • ||

    No. He won't get near as good a book deal. And no one would want to give him a reality show.

  • MNG||

    Maybe one of his daughters can get knocked up?

  • ||

    But I thought it was bad to stimitize unwed mothers? Oh I get it. It is okay to do it as long as you are doing it to the child of a political opponent. I am a little rusty on my leftist morality.

  • MNG||

    "stimitize unwed mothers"

    Who's stimitizing?

  • MNG||

    You saying I'm stimitizing?

  • T||

    Well, you were a big fan of the stimulus so it's only natural for us to assume you stimitize. Or stimitate, depending on where you're from.

  • ||

    ""I still only give it 50/50 he doesn't quit and let the Dems run someone else.""

    You mean 50/50 he will not seek another term.

    Finishing your term and not seeking another is not the same as quiting. Quiting is leaving before your term is over.

  • Sudden||

    But you might want to replace concerned with elated, Obama has his problems imo but I don't want what the GOP is selling. I'm glad about their candidate struggles

    Why would that make you elated then?

    If Obama has his problems as you say (read: considerably understate), in theory shouldn't you want the republican field to offer up a contender that you actually find equally palatable if not more so? Especially given that the current economic climate is highly unfavorable for a POTUS seeking reelection.

    Oh, that's right. You're just TEAM BLUE shill.

  • Almanian||

    Did you see the most-recent South Park? Cause your posting today is reminding me of it.

    SHAKE OUT OF IT, MUNG!!

  • MNG||

    With all due respect Alamanan, go fuck yourself. What's up with you following me around all day?

  • Almanian||

    I can't help, it, Mung, cause you're EVERYWHERE!

    Get a room, for fuck's sake. And take your meds. For the children.

  • MNG||

    It took you forty minutes to come up with that?

    Pretty sad dude.

  • MNG's Only Friend||

    MNG, some people don't stay on one thread for, like, 6 hours like you do. They go out, they come back - like the tides.

    You can't explain that.

    PWNED!

  • Sudden||

    Time for a poll on what MNG stands for:

    Masturbating Nude Guy
    Massive Nodule on Genitals
    Marxist Naval Gazer
    Massacre and Nuke Ghaddafi
    Melatonin Never Greater

  • Fluffy||

    Mobile Nut Gulper

  • ||

    There is little evidence to suggest he is mobile.

  • Fluffy||

    There's no way to do that, because 1/3 of the electorate are total douchebags.

    Maybe more.

    So you can either alienate douchebags, or you can couch your statements and actions in ways that will not alienate douchebags - but that will allow you to be nailed as a flip-flopper when you try to skate on them later.

    I think we have to go with the guys that have just written a portion of the electorate off and make no effort to appeal to them.

  • ||

    "Those Americans who want to rely on the government to take care of them cradle to grave, well, I have no interest in appealing to them. The same for those Americans who think the state should be enlisted in their moral crusades.

    "If any of them vote for me, it will be because they are too stupid and/or lazy to understand what I intend to do.

    "Vote for Dean! Because he'll get the parasites off your back, and the nannies out of your house!

    "Complimentary "Fuck Off, Slaver" bumperstickers available as you leave. Thanks for coming."

  • Fluffy||

    I'd like everyone to know that I am setting up the first RC Dean Moneybomb, scheduled for July 4th...

  • Brett L||

    Only if I get a "Fuck off, Slavers!" bumpersticker signed by robc.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    Watching CNN this morning, the bobbleheads were expressing suprise and amazement that some pundits were saying Michelle Bachmann was the far away winner of the debate last night. They were discussing whether she could be a viable GOP candidate to take back the White House. One female bobblehead remarked that Bachmann was a bit "extreme" and recited a few facts in support of that proposition, including that "she wants government to be limited to only what's in the Constitution."

    OMG WTF!!! How RADICAL and EXTREME!!!

  • MNG||

    "One female bobblehead remarked that Bachmann was a bit "extreme" and recited a few facts in support of that proposition, including that "she wants government to be limited to only what's in the Constitution.""

    Forgive me if I doubt your paraphrase.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    No, I won't. Because I promise you that is exactly what she said.

    I wish I had had some way to record it. I don't know if CNN saves and re-broadcasts or archives on its website any of its broadcasts, but the woman did say, as an example of why Bachmann is extremely conservative, that "she wants government to be limited to only what's in the Constitution."

    Which is why it stood out enough for me to notice it, remember it, and remark upon it here.

  • ||

    You know who else wanted a government of limited, enumerated powers?

    Nope, I can't think of anyone either.

  • OO||

    somalia?

  • ||

    No, dummy, the Roman Republic.

  • Fluffy||

    Right, but they built lots of

    ROADS!!!@!@!#!@#!

  • ||

    It all comes down to roads.

  • OO||

    roads in somalia? must be private pirate toll roads me mateys!

  • Solanum||

    But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

  • Almanian||

    Nice system of numerals?

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    They made some cool candles. Although I never understood why they call them "candles," because usually my candles don't shoot out flaming projectiles and streams of sparks.

  • ||

    System of government?

  • Benito Mussolini||

    Did they get the chariots to run on time? Huh? Huh?

  • Almanian||

    she wants government to be limited to only what's in the Constitution

    The fucking Terrorists Have Won®.
    Congratulations, Adolph Bachmann!!

  • ||

    ""she wants government to be limited to only what's in the Constitution""

    Yeah bullshit on every politician running for a federal office that says that. For example, where in the Constitution does it give the Feds federal policing powers?

    To be true to their word, much of the fed powers, including their own, would have to be deconstructed. Not gonna happen.

  • ||

    "where in the Constitution does it give the Feds federal policing powers?"

    There's something about treason, counterfeiting and piracy, but beyond that, I got nothing.

  • ||

    "MNG|6.14.11 @ 1:16PM|#
    Maybe one of his daughters can get knocked up?"

    Well, she is black and lives in public housing, so she is at risk.

  • ||

    +1000

  • ||

    Couldn't resist. It was too good a set-up.

  • Fluffy||

    RACIST@!@!@!@!!!

    I have to admit, though: She also has liberal parents who travel a lot, and that total combination of factors pretty much puts a bull's eye right on her...ah...back.

  • cynical||

    What? She's white.

    Well, if you follow the reverse-one-drop rule.

  • Brett L||

  • ||

    If you currently have pre-existing conditions like me that have prevented you from being able to qualify for health insurance for at least six months you will have coverage options under new health care. Check "Penny Health Insurance" to find how to get quality insurance for dollars.

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