Reminder: Commies Still Suck

The Boston Globe's Jeff Jacoby does the work that shouldn't, at this late date, need to be done:

If José Saramago, the Portuguese writer who died on Friday at 87, had been an unrepentant Nazi for the last four decades, he would never have won international acclaim or received the 1998 Nobel Prize for Literature. Leading publishers would never have brought out his books, his works would not have been translated into more than 20 languages, and the head of Portugal's government would never have said on his death — as Prime Minister José Sócrates did say last week — that he was "one of our great cultural figures and his disappearance has left our culture poorer."

But Saramago wasn't a Nazi, he was a communist. And not just a nominal communist, as his obituaries pointed out, but an "unabashed" (Washington Post), "unflinching" (AP), "unfaltering" (New York Times) true believer. A member since 1969 of Portugal's hardline Communist Party, Saramago called himself a "hormonal communist" who in all the years since had "found nothing better." Yet far from rendering him a pariah, Saramago's communist loyalties have been treated as little more than a roguish idiosyncrasy. Without a hint of irony, AP's obituary quoted a comment Saramago made in 1998: "People used to say about me, 'He's good but he's a communist.' Now they say, 'He's a communist but he's good.'"

But the idea that good people can be devoted communists is grotesque. The two categories are mutually exclusive.

Read the whole thing here; link via the Twitter feed of Kristie Coneys Kuhl. Reason's archive on the horrors of communism here.

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  • ||

    Even after all this time, I just sit in total disbelief that people could be willing to accept support of a system that has caused such horrific misery for so many. The analogy with Nazism or any other brutal, totalitarian system is apt.

  • ||

    Whereas Capitalism is a system that has not caused horrific misery for anybody. Really!

  • JEP||

    Capitalism has never been intimately tied to a governmental system the way communism has.

    If you want to use the US as an example, our government has never executed large portions of the population to my knowledge.

    Comparing the social effects of Capitalism to Communism is going to get you no where Dan T. History is against you.

  • Sitting Bull||

    If you want to use the US as an example, our government has never executed large portions of the population to my knowledge.

    I beg to differ....

  • JEP||

    Then differ...example?

  • WTF||

    Um... you might take note of Sitting Bull's name. There be a hint for ye there.

  • JEP||

    Damn I'm slow.

    The native american situation is definitely a black eye, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that it stems from the economic system and not from douche bag politicians.

  • ||

    If anything, you could argue that what was done to the native Americans was more akin to communism (taking property by force for the benefit of the state) than capitalism (respect for property rights).

  • ||

    My point is simply that capitalism requires a government that enforces its rules via the threat or use of violence just like every other system does.

    If I take something that the government says belongs to you, then I can be thrown in jail.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • marlok||

    "If I take something that the government says belongs to you, then I can be thrown in jail."

    Hence 'property rights'.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    If I take something that the government says belongs to you, then I can be thrown in jail.


    That is correct.

    It is called stealing.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • Max's Porn||

    Communist Body Count: 149,469,610

    (I am what I am.)

  • ||

    As with so much else, the definition of words like "communist" matter.

    What to many people is e.g. socialism some others call communism. To me it's the totalitarianism (and evil performed by) fascist and communist systems that make them evil. There are, and have been, capitalist totalitarian systems that are likewise wrong (slaveholding capitalistic societies with democracy but only for some, anyone?). So I could see someone supporting a non-totalitarian socialist system which they considered "communist" would not necessarily be a "bad" person, no matter how mistaken I thought they were.

    If one thinks e.g. Stalin was a great guy, bad. If one thinks socialized medicine is a good idea (not on this site!), some people might think that is "communist", but I don't think that necessarily makes the person "bad". For that matter notwithstanding the problems of unions today, at least in some instances (mining and safety and violence against workers etc.) I think they were "good" things (or at least not clearly "bad"), at least for a time, even if they were called "communist" at the time by some.

  • ChrisO||

    Private property doesn't exactly "liberate" itself, now does it? Coercion is inherent in any socialist or communist system. The communists are just more brutal about it.

  • ||

    Right, capitalist societies like the U.S. never take property away from individual citizens for the good of all - I guess all those "blight" condemnations of private property and takings by the government for redistribution, not to mention seizure of property allegedly used in crimes even when there was no conviction to support "law" enforcement, happened in some parallel universe...not to mention welfare (paid for by taxes), etc. (I support a welfare system in general, even if I have some specific problems, but I don't pretend it's not redistribution of wealth/property).

  • Max||

    Okay, let me explain this to you. Despite the many crimes of Stalinism, Maoism, and other communisms, it has never been an explicitly murderous ideology. American communists made contributions to the labor and civil rights movement. It was possible to be a communist and a humanist ideaalist. None of this was ever true of Nazism. Nazis were openly and explicitly racist and murderous and nothing they did ever appeared to be a contradiction of their principles. I actually don't expect you right-wing nutjobs to understand this.

  • highnumber||

    You could leave off the "right-wing nutjobs" part of your statement if you want to make a sensible comment. OTOH, if you just want to provoke, then you did fine.

  • ||

    Max or whoever you are, you are amazingly ignorant. Communism has always been an explicitly murderous ideology. And American communists operated for decades under the funding and control of the KGB. They had the specific mission to apologize for, cover up and deminish the crimes of Stalin. During the Soviet non aggression pact, they specifically acted in concert with local fascists in efforts to keep the US from aiding Britain and out of the war with Germany. Later, they participated in massive espionage which enabled Russia to modernize its military industrial complex after the war (including building the bomb) which then allowed Stalin to enslave all of Eastern Europe for 40 years. Worse, they undercut and attacked Soviet dissidents who spoke about the nightmare state that was the USSR.

    Later the celebrated and defended the Khmer Rouge and denied any killings ever took place in the country. That of course is in addition to supporting Cuba and any number of other murderous communist regimes in Africa.

    You really are the most uneducated and ignorant person who posts on here Edward.

  • ||

    I don't know a single liberal who knows about Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge.

  • T||

    Are you serious? If so, just damn. You know some ignorant bastards.

  • ||

    No joke....

  • ||

    Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al., have murdered millions more than the Nazis. How can you possibly defend them?

  • ||

    I'm all for taking up a collection to get ol' Maxi pad a bus ticket to NORK. Anyone else want to chip in?

  • ||

    http://www.amazon.com/Forsaken.....1594201684

    The Maxes of a previous day did do that. And it didn't work out so well.

  • Warty||

    Did you read that, John? It's a big 'ol kick in the balls.

  • ||

    I have been meaning to. You are the one who pointed it out to me. It is on my amazon to buy list.

  • ||

    And it didn't work out so well.

    Well, for them it didn't. We'd come out ahead.

  • ||

    You can get the Hardcover edition at Paperbackswap.com for $6 and change.

    (I'll send a referral if you wish)

  • BakedPenguin||

  • BakedPenguin||

    And part 3.

  • Unions & Unicorns||

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/journ.....30n1-4.pdf

    "Illinois coal strike of 1898. When an agreement between the United
    Mine Workers and the mine owners expired, the UMW went on strike, and violently prevented black workers from taking their former jobs. The union
    had the full support of Illinois Governor John R. Tanner, who swore
    that he would use the state militia to “shoot to pieces with Gatling
    guns” any train bringing in black workers. The militia captain in Pana,
    Illinois, pledged his support. “If any Negroes are brought into Pana
    while I am in charge, and they refuse to retreat when ordered to do
    so, I will order my men to fire,” he pledged. “If I lose every man under
    my command no Negroes shall land in Pana.” Several black miners
    were murdered in the ensuing weeks. The AFL passed a resolution
    praising Governor Tanner (who had been indicted by a grand jury for
    allowing the situation to get out of control), and “Remember Pana” became a UMW slogan."

  • mad libertarian guy||

    That can't be right. There were/are no racists outside of the deep south.

  • Max||

    and as I've already asserted communists contributed to labor unions AND civil rights, ergo, labor unions can not nor ever have been in any way racist or violent or violently racist. the above quote is obviously just a bit of fabricated history intended to smear the good works sown by the brotherhood of labor.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    That can't be right. There were/are no racists outside of the deep south.


    It is hard for people in those states to form prejudices against black people if black people were forbidden to live in those states.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Being from Cato, i believe it to be a bit suspect. I wouldn't expect a decent discussion about unions from Cato.

    To add, why were the employers so eager to use african americans to staff their mines. Could it be that they could neglect the safety and wage concerns brought up by the original workers. SO what if they died, they're only blacks. It's pretty clear who the bigger racists were. Nice try though.

  • marlok||

    Concerning your blanket dismissal of Cato: if you can't cite something challenging their account of events, then you are standing on nothing.
    Concerning your theory of "who the bigger racists were": Let's assume they were trying to exploit labor that was more easily expendable. Blacks were taking the jobs on their own free will; they weren't coerced by force. However, the unions were acting through force directly against black people. The unions were therefore "the bigger racists".
    "I wouldn't expect a decent discussion about unions from Cato." Lemme guess, you would only expect one from some unbiased source like The Nation or Mother Jones.

  • ||

    I'd just note that during the 1920s and 1930s one of the more common defenses of violence by communists (throughout the world) was that colonialism is violent, but hey we are violent for a noble purpose.

  • Jordan||

    What a crock of shit. Communism is inherently violent. If somebody refuses to give their property to the collective, what do you think happens to them?

  • #||

    "Communism is inherently violent"

    not to mention that communist philosophy, as envisioned by marx, explicity requires a violent revolution.

  • In Time Of War||

    Whether or not the communist philosophy is "evil", whenever commies take power a lot of people who don't like communism start dying.
    I don't like communism, hence, I am opposed to communists and their ilk purely due to my survival instinct.

  • A. H.||

    How come nobody ever claims National Socialism hasn't ever really been tried?

  • Michael Ejercito||

    How come nobody ever claims National Socialism hasn't ever really been tried?


    Who says it was tried?

    The National Socialists were detracted from their goal of creating a greater German state by Hitler's quest to conquer Europe and exterminate the Jews.

  • Kevin||

    Okay, let me explain this to you. Despite the many crimes of Nazism, Fascism in general has never been an explicitly racist ideology. It is nationalistic, which is not the same as racist. In fact Heidegger, a German Nazi, made the same distinction between between different Nazis that progressives love to make between different Communists. Among other things he distinguished between the inner truth and greatness of the movement and the party that put it into practice. He was generally critical of thier biological, racists views. This is the whole 'gee, what a great idea, too bad these guys fucked it up' mentality that communist apologists love to engage in. I don't expect philosophical morons to grasp this subtlety.

  • Sam Grove||

    The NAZIS' were also socialist, explicitly so.

    It may be so that communism, as an economic system and philosophy, is not an explicitly murderous ideology, it nonetheless require implementation by murderous thugs as people are not inherently NACO (National Communists) and, in the interest of personal survival, act capitalistic even under an imposed communism.

  • Alan Vanneman||

    ... it has never been an explicitly murderous ideology."

    Huh? Just an inexplicably murderous one, I guess. Prior to WWII, Hitler was a piker compared to Stalin. Um, anyway, what I was really going to say was that Picasso, whether or not he was a "real" communist (he never got around to sharing the wealth, did he?) always said he was a communist. Sadly, he was a great artist, which leads to "smart" people today saying stupid things like this (shameless self-promotion to follow, but, hey, it's funny): http://avanneman.blogspot.com/.....rs-of.html

  • ||

    Jesus Edward, you even make Vennaman looks sharp.

  • Herpes||

    He has his moments, particularly when he blogwhores. Brother Alan certainly is prolific and spreads our "gift" well.

  • ||

    impostor!

  • BakedPenguin||

    I don't know why you're insulting Vanneman in this case. He's pointing out that some lefty artist is (or was) a hypocrite. True, it's a dog-bites-man story, but there's nothing stupid about it.

    Hey Alan, why don't you go after Godard (if you haven't already) for constantly whining that capitalists wouldn't give him money to make (boring) movies about how much capitalists suck and should be killed?

  • BakedPenguin||

    Oh, wait, you were insulting Ed/ Lefiti / Max, not Vanneman. Never mind.

  • ||

    I'll be attending the funeral.

  • Stalin||

    Whoops. Sorry. My bad.

  • highnumber||

    I don't see how buying into a poorly thought out political theory makes one a bad person. Did he also advocate for genocide or something?

  • ||

    So you would be OK with a Nazi winner of a Nobel Prize if their intentions were good and non-racist? If they were a "moderate" Nazi who thought Hitler went too far?

  • Citizen Nothing||

    If he won for literature, and his stuff was actually good, then I think I'd be cool with it. I wouldn't call him a good guy, though.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    If he was an unabashed commie, you can be sure that he wrote in red ink.

    There is no separating a man from his writing.

    But for the sake of argument, even if one could separate one's ideas from what one writes, if a Nazi (or more accurately unless we are specifically talking about Germany here - a Fascist) were to write the most wonderful piece of lit ever written, he still wouldn't have a chance in hell of receiving the Nobel Prize.

  • highnumber||

    "'Moderate' Nazi"? You're making an unreasonable comparison. The Nazis philosophy was based on hatred. Communism, to me, is based on a misapplied concept of equality. Your question is more like asking about a "moderate" child killer who thought John Wayne Gacy went too far.

  • cynical||

    Bullshit, communism has always been about hate -- hate based in envy, rather than fear, but hate nonetheless.

  • highnumber||

    It may be that you have trouble seeing the world through others' less jaded eyes, Herr cynical.

  • Sam Grove||

    The NAZIS was based on hatred?

    Here I always thought is was based on Nationalism, Socialism, and Authoritarianism.

    The inciting of hatred against "others" is something you can find in many places...like the U.S.

  • Zeb||

    I think Heidegger is a good and interesting philosopher despite his membership in the Nazi party.

  • guy in the back row||

    And Von Braun?

  • ||

    He always claimed he was forced into it, because otherwise they wouldn't let him continue his rocket work. He was always pretty non-political, AFAIK.

  • Pendulum||

    Gather round while I sing you of Werner von Braun
    A man who's allegiance is ruled by expediance:

    "Vahnce zhe rockets are up, who cares vere zhey come down!
    Zhat's not my department!"
    Says Werner von Braun.

  • ||

    I don't see how buying into a poorly thought out political theory makes one a bad person. Did he also advocate for genocide or something?

    It doesn't really matter around these parts.

    Listening to some people one would think that capitalists have never done evil or murderous things.

    Why is capitalism immune from this guilt by association? If even one capitalist has done anything evil, than anyone who is an unabashed and unrepentant capitalist is evil too -- since that seems to be the standard for every other ideology.

    Just because some people have done bad things in the name of an ideology doesn't make the whole ideology evil.

    How many people have done murderous genocidal things in the name of religion? Yet religion isn't considered inherently evil by the same people that condemn communism, socialism, etc.

    Funny how the certain ideologies are held to a different standard than others.

  • ||

    "Just because some people have done bad things in the name of an ideology doesn't make the whole ideology evil."

    Depending on the ideology, it can. Communism is ideology that says we are going to transform the nature of man in order to create paradise. It by necessity involves force and oppression. You can't do it any other way.

    To give you an example, under communism we are all supposed to work for the collective. The moment I start not working for the collective, have become a capitalist and an exploiter. In practical terms, the moment I start spending my efforts growing tomatoes in my back yard to sell them rather than working on the collective farm, I have undercut the collective. Eventually, I will be a new socialist man and never do that. At that point the government falls away because there is no need. But until that happens, the government has to force me to act for the collective and ignore my own interests. That is the only way the system can ever work. Communism necessarily requires, at least in its early stages, government oppression.

    When you believe in a system that requires government oppression, you are responsible for the deaths and oppression that result in the places where that system is implemented.

  • ||

    When you believe in a system that requires government oppression, you are responsible for the deaths and oppression that result in the places where that system is implemented.

    Kind of like how if I don't respect the concept of private property then I could be thrown into prison by the government of capitalist countries?

  • ||

    Shut up Dan. That statement is so stupid it is not even wrong. Re-read my post and try again. I can't provide you political theory lessons.

  • ||

    It's not stupid, it's true. Capitalism can only work if it has the power to enforce property rights.

  • JEP||

    Dan T's argument is that capitalism is "oppressive" because you don't have a claim to something that belongs to someone else.

    For all the shit libertarians take for "advocating" anarchy, Dan's argument is probably the most anarchistic I've seen posted on the forum.

    Also, government isn't necessarily required to enforce property rights...it's a civil recourse to enforce property rights, but I would feel justified in shooting you as you run away from my house with my TV.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • cynical||

    Difference is that capitalism as an ideology arose in a system where property rights already existed, and capitalists (followers of the ideology, not owners of capital) never actually seized power or for that matter experienced complete success in convincing those with power to adopt their ideas.

    Communism's murderous totalitarian governments have been a product of and necessary for the implementation of communist policy, in contrast.

  • ||

    And can't you say the same thing about Fascism? Just because some bad people in Europe did bad things in Europe doesn't make every fascist responsible?

    At some point, an ideology can be so inherently vile and murderous that it is wrong to believe in it even if you never actually go out in kill someone in the name of it. Communism and its evil twin fascism fit that description.

  • ||

    Why is capitalism immune from this guilt by association?

    Because it's not a political system?

    As an economic system, it typically involves the consensual transactions of voluntary actors. This isn't to say that actors don't try to game the system through the political process, but that's not capitalism.

    Now, if you can point to *one* self-proclaimed communist system that didn't involve brutal and bloody oppression as SOP, I'd be curious to see it all worked out.

  • ||

    Communalism formed some workable communities, but they have rarely last more than just a few generations.

    Completely voluntary communism doesn't have to be a project drenched in blood. The problem comes in when they attempt to coerce the voluntary relationship of the individual to the communal state.

    It's never a problem to consider yourself a communist; the problem always comes when you think it's time for someone to agree with you at any cost, even to the point of manufacturing the silent consent of the murdered dead.

  • ||

    Please disregard my draft 2nd paragraph.

  • ||

    Sure, on paper, communism doesn't sound so bad. Unfortunately, in practice, its murderous barbarism and enrichment of the ruling elite at the cost to the working class is uniform.

    The only variant seems to be just *how* brutal the regime can be.

  • Capitalism||

    Capitalism isn't an ideology - it is system of standardization in trade between human beings. Capitalism can be practiced in any number of degrees under any number of ideologies.

    The only contra ideology to communism is individualism.

  • Zeb||

    Capitalism is not an ideology. It is people freely engaging in voluntary exchange. It is what people do. It exists in spite of whatever ideologies are pushed by governments. This is why there is no guilt by association to capitalism. It is not a political system or an ideology, it is people doing what people do when they are not forced into some system or other.

  • ||

    Saramago didn't defend and support communism as an ideology or as a theory. He defended communists and communist systems.

    Castro, Mao et al.

    Try again.

  • Sam Grove||

    Capitalism isn't a political ideology.

  • Sam Grove||

    In fact, I don't think Capitalism is an ideology at all. The term was coined by Marx to describe the the economic system extant in the constitutional republic of the U.S.

  • Corduroy||

    It certainly makes you stupid.

  • ||

    Y'know... I'm fine with communists who would keep their whole system voluntary. The sort of "live and let live" approach.

    Nothing wrong with a bunch of like-minded idealists voluntarily getting together and living in a commune, working side-by-side as equals according to their ability, and sharing their mutual production according to their need.

    I wish them well, as long as they don't force me, or anyone else, to follow their system. Unfortunately, most commies I know of tend to want to force everyone else to play the game by their rules.

  • ||

    People who do this are not communists. They are Utopian Socialists. And they have been around since the 18th Century. And yes, the generally are harmless though foolish. Communism has always been and will always be about transforming man and society. It can never be a voluntary system.

  • ||

    "Communism has always been and will always be about transforming man and society. It can never be a voluntary system."

    I thought that was "Progressivism".

  • ||

    Progressivism is just the low grade chronic version of the collectivist disease. Communism and Fascism are the high grade acute version.

  • ||

    So Capitialism is a voluntary system? I didn't realize we could just opt out of it.

  • ||

    yes dumb ass. People do it all the time. They form communes.

  • ||

    So if I join a "commune" then I am no longer subject to the laws of the Capitalist government?

  • Jordan||

    Capitalism is not a political system, you moron.

  • ||

    Yes, I'm going to be Dan's porn for a moment, because someone else might actually buy into his shit not knowing any better.

    IF you join a commune, you opt out of capitalist society, but you're not immune from the laws of the government...because capitalism does not equal government. Get it?

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    What the fuck does that even mean? You wanna start yourself a self-sufficient commune? Knock yourself out. In fact, I'm sure many here would encourage you to do so.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    I am his porn, too.
    I feel so ashamed.
    And also, John and I, our minds are like one.
    I feel so ashamed.

  • ||

    I know it's hard to stop. I too know the lure of beating up on the retarded. But I don't say that it's bad to beat him for his sake, but ours. In a completely atheist sense, I am striving to save your soul.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Mea culpa, Father SugarFree. (And stop touching me there.)

  • ||

    Why? It is the way to paradise.

  • Banjos Kick Ass!||

    :-) Sugar, you are one of the reasons why I look at the Reason comment threads almost everyday.

  • ||

    I didn't realize we could just opt out of it.

    Planes, trains and automobiles.

    It's more than just a movie.

  • Sam Grove||

    You don't have to practice capitalism, but you remain subject to the laws of the formerly constitutional republic and its member state that you reside in.

    That has nothing to do with economic systems.

  • Jonny A||

    Correct.

    Human beings are by biological nature autonomous creatures (and quite obviously social beings). Unlike the aspen "tree", a lump or coral, or a borg, a human being can never really be anything other than an individual who interacts with other individuals. My starvation will never be your starvation.

    This is why communism "works" - if collectivist rhetoric were true, and we really were a "we"...then we could never distinguish a communist leader from the hoards of "we", their pain would be his pain.

    Even communism implicitly relies on individualism to distinguish between those who right rules on the wall and those who obey them.

    As such, communism is unique in its horror - it prescribes living people be what they are not and cannot be - the zombie "we".

  • Sam Grove||

    Please, "write", not "right".

  • ||

    Actually, social insects are essentially communists. The queen of a colony uses chemical scents to control all her daughter workers and prevent them from reproducing, thus aligning their Darwinian success with the colony's success.

    Trying to impose that workable system on independent human beings doesn't work so well.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    It's because they want your shit.

    The entire system is based on envy.

  • Max||

    Also, Saramago was a great writer unlike, say, Ayn Rand, who was laughably bad. We don't judge the quality of a writer by his or her ideology, do we?

  • Citizen Nothing||

    So, Max. What do you think of the film-making skill of Leni Riefenstahl?

  • ||

    Shakes fist in anger.

  • Max||

    She was a powerful film maker.

  • ||

    If that writing furthers a horrible ideology, yes. Leni Riefenstahl was one of the five or ten greatest film makers of the 20th Century and easily the best woman film maker. But the fact that she was a Nazi and made movies like Triumph of the Will, reduces the quality of her art, no matter how technically brilliant it was. Saramago is no different than Riefenstahl.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    This seems like a good place for this.

  • Daze||

    Leni Riefenstahl was one of the five or ten greatest film makers of the 20th Century

    This is just dumb. No serious film buff/historian/critic would rank Riefenstahl this high.

    For example, this list puts her at #164: http://www.theyshootpictures.c.....ectors.htm

    Here she ranked #151: http://www.thecinematheque.com.....ector.html

  • ||

    But they meant well.

    All men, deep down inside, are Communists at heart. Anybody who has ever spent an afternoon with a two year old could tell you that.

  • Adonisus||

    As an ex-communist, I can tell you by experience that in the movement there are two kinds of communists.

    1. The 'ignorant idealists'. These are usually decent if completely delusional individuals who truly believe that the Marxist utopia is the cure for the world's ills. Generally they really do care about the poor, the problem is that they tend to run purely on emotion and sentiment, denying that Communism is inherently totalitarian and tend to get defensive when you bring up the CCCP. Mostly harmless.

    2. The true-blue believers. THESE are the guys you have the watch out for. They generally tend to be in leadership roles and are VERY good at spinning their ideaology. They're also really good at keeping their lessers in the dark. During the Soviet days, the average Party member didn't really know that the party was getting funds from the KGB, because the party leaders kept them ignorant.

    So, remember that not all Communists are made equal, but they're all idiots. Just some of them are more dangerous than others.

  • Max||

    True believers are very visible here among the libertoid masses.

  • Curt||

    Hmmm. Kinda sounds like Scientology.

  • -||

    "But the idea that good people can be devoted communists continue to enable Max is grotesque."

  • Max||

    Here are some Americans who were communists: Elia Kazan, Erskine Caldwell, John Dos Passos, Howard Fast, Pete Seeger, Clifford Odets, Larry Parks, John Garfield.

    Anybody have a list of Americans who were Nazis?

  • Colin||

    Ezra Pound, to name one. If you include sympathizers, the list is huge.

  • Max||

    Pound was a fascist, not a Nazi. There's a difference.

  • ||

    Ezra Pound was a devotee of Mussolini's fascism, he was never, AFAIK, a Nazi. Mussolini's fascism did not require anti-semitism, in fact Mussolini specifically denounced it early on, he hoped to get the support of Italy's Jews (and succeeded to some extent), and it was one of the reasons that Hitler did not entirely trust him.

    All of Pound's propaganda work was for Musolini and Italian Fascism, never for Hitler and Nazism. He was also charged with treason for these activities but never went to trial. Instead he was found incompetent and commited to a hospital.

    I have never heard of his work being mentioned without reference to his treasonous wartime activities.

    Pound was an anti-semite but only in the same way as most non-jewish intellectuals of the time were. They, like many pro-German people*, did not believe in Hitler's extermination policies and denounced Hitler and Naziism once the true nature of the program became known.

    *See also Charles Lindbergh and the majority of the Swedish population pre-WWII.

  • ||

    Interesting how the history of illuminati is littered with widespread support of murderous regimes and ideologies. You'd think for a group that is always regarded as the cream of society, one that it infested with such well-educated and knowledgeable people, that they'd learn by now.

  • ||

    It always reminds me of Harry Lime's speech in The Third Man comparing the Medicis with the Swiss.

  • ||

    Joe Kennedy Sr.

  • ||

    Joe Kennedy Sr. was pro-German but was not a Nazi.

    In fact, he wasn't even all that pro-German, he just wanted to end up on the winning side. And (like half of the British population, including the Chamberlain Cabinet) he belieived that Germany was going to end up the winner.

  • Maverick||

    Alger Hiss

  • ||

    Alger Hiss was a communist.

  • Maverick||

    I should've been clear that I was adding him to douche's list of commies.

  • WTF||

    Henry Ford?

  • ||

    Again, never a nazi, but a truly nasty anti-semite. Though, in fairness, most of these anti-semites were truly horrified at what Hitler and the nazis ended up doing.

    It's worth remembering that Ford also built auto and truck plants in the Soviet Union and sent Ford employees over to set up and run them.

    He basically believed that the planned regimented industrial societies of the Soviet Union and nazi Germany were the wave of the future.

    Another example of someone who wanted to end up on the side of the winners.

  • Urkobold™||

    MAX THE TROLL.

  • ||

    Some of the people on that list were fellow travellers rather than outright communists. For example, while John Garfield's wife was a party member, there is no evidence that he ever was.

    Elia Kazan and John Dos Passos specifically renounced communism and not as some deathbed act but while they were still active and relevant.

  • Chinny Chin Chin||

    Wernher von Braun

  • Enyap||

    Larry Thorne

  • Colin||

    Miroslav Krleza was also a communist, but his novel On the Edge of Reason is one of the greatest testaments to individualism I've read.

    As they say, you can't always judge a book by its cover.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Why do you people reply to anything Max says. It's fairly obvious he's a troll.

  • -||

    He completes them.

  • Warty||

    Edward, how many Bob Avakian speeches have you memorized?

  • ||

    If he won for literature, and his stuff was actually good, then I think I'd be cool with it. I wouldn't call him a good guy, though.

    I really don't give a shit about anything but what's in the pages of the book. A long time ago, I made it a policy to not have any interest in the writer's real life. He could be a drunken wife-beating hit man, and if his work is good, I don't care.

    That does not mean, however, I don't think he should be jailed or shot for the other stuff.

  • T||

    This. I don't have the time to exhaustively research the political inclinations of everyone involved with the production of my entertainment.

    I will note, however, that if you start with an ideology as the basis for your work, the end result tends to suck as a piece of art. Ayn Rand is the poster child for this statement.

  • Zeb||

    If you had to judge artists by their political ideologies, there would not be much art suitable for consumption by libertarians.

  • If I may be so crude...||

    If José Saramago, the Portuguese writer who died on Friday at 87, had been an unrepentant Nazi for the last four decades, he would never have won international acclaim or received the 1998 Nobel Prize for Literature. Leading publishers would never have brought out his books, his works would not have been translated into more than 20 languages, and the head of Portugal's government would never have said on his death — as Prime Minister José Sócrates did say last week — that he was "one of our great cultural figures and his disappearance has left our culture poorer."

    You don't suppose that the fact that there are a lot more Jewish ex-communists than ex-Nazis running newspapers, publishing houses and media conglomarates has anything to do with that, do you?

  • ||

    Yet religion isn't considered inherently evil by the same people that condemn communism, socialism, etc.

    Wrong.

  • Warty||

    Communism and religion come from the same seemingly innate human desire to control and be controlled. So yes, I'd say they're both inherently evil.

  • ||

    Whereas in Capitalism there are no prisons or laws!

  • Warty||

    I realized he was right and headed for the bathroom. I noticed there was only one other customer in the store, a very tall man who looked like he was about to pour a half-gallon of milk over his head but had stopped, his body frozen except for his eyes.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn. He just wants to jack off in your mouth.

  • Warty||

    I can only respond to his stupidity with equal stupidity, and there's only one source of suitably high-grade stupidity.

  • ||

    If he gets to jack off here, that takes the sting out his wife refusing to sleep with him. He should never have a moment in order to forget the dead look in her eyes and her shudder at his touch.

  • marlok||

    I'm looking forward to the day when Max finally reveals which regular poster he is the troll-doppelganger of. I'm starting to suspect its John, expressing his creative side.

  • billy-jay||

    Communism is evil because there is no private property. It is the very foundation of the ideology. It's dressed up to present it as heaven, but the concept of private property is what enabled humanity to settle down and build civilizations. Communism is anti-civilization at its core.

    Blaming Capitalism for its evils is not nearly the same thing. Capitalism's faults are human faults. Communism's faults are much more. Anti-civilization? Maybe I should've said anti-human.

  • ||

    I'm listening to some lectures on the French Revolution, and the professor is discussing the role of utopianism in the violence of the Terror.

    Really, to grossly oversimplify things, one could label the American Revolution as "pragmatic" and the French Revolution as "utopian." Because utopias require that people all behave and interact in a certain way--a really tough task if you're relying on mere persuasion--the urge to compel "correct" behavior is apparently overwhelming. Rooting out heresy has been a major--perhaps the major--characteristic of utopians like the French revolutionaries and the Bolsheviks. Also, of course, another common point is the emphasis on the collective and not on the individual. Breaking some heads to get to utopia always seems okay with utopians.

    As much as libertarians talk about "Libertopia", most of us seem to be operating more under old school American pragmatism than under any real idea of utopianism.

  • Warty||

    What lectures are those? Sounds like something I'd get a kick out of.

  • ||

    Liberty and its Price: Understanding the French Revolution. The lecturer is Donald M.G. Sutherland (loved him in Kelly's Heroes!), and the audio course is published by Modern Scholar. My library system has a decent collection of Modern Scholar and Teaching Company CDs and DVDs.

  • ||

    Because utopias require that people all behave and interact in a certain way--a really tough task if you're relying on mere persuasion--the urge to compel "correct" behavior is apparently overwhelming.

    Whereas in a Capitalist country there are never attempts to compel "correct" behavior.

  • Warty||

    Captain Smith stared straight ahead. The Tarmo fighter had maneuvered into attack position, its dewentar ray pointed directly at the Nonix’s outer shurt. The attacker’s beguplanktar relegnared the Nonix’s vadeenvedar at the looputanistic werttentrat!

  • ||

    Don't be his porn. Don't reward his bad faith.

  • ||

    Translation: attack the messenger instead of my points.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • -||

    e.g. his fluff boy.

  • ||

    Pro. Once Utopia is your end, any means is justified. Since man lacks perfect knowledge, the only true good in the world can be between two individuals. If I stop and help someone, that is a pure good as long as it is viewed only through the lens of those two people. Once we start getting bigger and start trying to do more good for more people, we go off the rails.

    All of the most monstrous evils ever perpetrated have been perpetrated in the name of the most noble ideals. Communism in its ideals is as noble as any. Who doesn't want a paradise without need or want? Same with religion. If everyone lived the life of Christ, life would be perfect. The problem is we can't do that.

    And the reason for that is that we can't know what the greater good is. We can know what is good for ourselves. We can know what is the good when we deal with another person or maybe our immediate families, but after that we lose touch with it altogether. What is good for my family or tribe or nation may not be good for you and yours. What is good for the whole is likely to be horrible for a few select individuals. Once we start dealing with things at the societal level, the more "good" we try to do, the more monstrous we become. That is why things like religion and communism, which have the most wondrous ideals, have resulted in most monstrous things being done at the societal level.

  • ||

    If your philosophy requires that you don't care much what means get you to your ends and that wholesale compulsion and violence is justified, your philosophy is evil and immoral. Period.

  • ||

    Glad to know that if I break into your house and take your stuff that you won't try to stop me or call the police!

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • Dan T||

    ARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFTHROWTHESTICK

  • Oh no not this again||

    You just described capitalism.....OOPS.

  • ||

    Don't try another handle, you ignorant piece of shit.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Ahhhhhh does it hurt SUge, please tell me how this,

    f your philosophy requires that you don't care much what means get you to your ends and that wholesale compulsion and violence is justified

    Hasn't been used by, for, or in pursuit of capitalist goals. You can stick your fingers in your ear, and pout and huff, but really, are you sad enough to reason like a communist.

    "OH it wasn't real capitalism."

    Well then, i guess that makes it all ok then, don't it suge?

  • ||

    Seriously, Dan. You don't fool anyone. Your insipid prose is easy to spot under any handle.

  • ||

    "I know you are but what am I?" strangely doesn't work here.

    I'm a minarchist, which means that I think some laws--and, as a result, some compulsion--is necessary to maintain a stable polity. But where I might set that level of compulsion to a 2.5, many--particularly, these days, on the left--would set it to an eleven.

  • ||

    Incidentally, capitalism isn't a political system. It's an economic one. A society could be monstrously oppressive and still allow people to operate businesses and conduct trade. Shoot, if we ever turn the corner into outright authoritarianism, we may still have some capitalist elements, though even those might be more veneer than substance.

    Creating false equivalences between commercial pragmatists and revolutionary utopians can only be done by ignoring history. Humans do evil in any system, but the evil we've done in pursuit of some person's idea of perfection is some of the greatest evil done in human history.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Sorry, capitalism doesn't get a get out of jail free card. Either way, that economic system has led to its fair share of deaths through either political means or economic. Those who have tried to make capitalism less lethal usually end up denigrated as communists, or in other places, dead.

  • ||

    I'm hardly suggesting--adn have said this a couple of times in this thread--that any human institution is purely good. We're flawed as a species, so, naturally, our institutions are flawed. But liberal republics and capitalism are a hell of a lot less flawed than communism or any other authoritarian alternatives.

  • Corduroy||

    I hate utopia as a concept. It's not achievable now, if it ever will be. Libertarians need to promote that freedom is messy, but it's better than the alternatives (of which we have plenty of examples).

    Anyone who sells the ultimate solution to all our ills is either deluded or evil.

  • ||

    The only realistic way to anything like utopia is improving the species. Make us less crazy and stupid on an individual level, and maybe we could get somewhere.

    Of course, even that path is dangerous.

  • ||

    Americans who were Nazis?

    Woodrow Wilson.

  • ||

    I feel like he overstates his case. Ex:

    "Mass murder and terror have always been intrinsic to communism."

    Murder and terror may have been the M.O. of recent historical authoritarian communist nations, but AFAIK they're not "intrinsic" to communism in the same way anti-semitism is fused with Nazism.

    I'll maintain that one could (and many do) be a devotee of communism and imagine that, in their communist country, those types of abuses would never happen.

    Then again, if Saramago in fact supported the actual communist regimes that perpetrated all these abuses...then that's pretty inexcusable.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    I'll maintain that one could (and many do) be a devotee of communism and imagine that, in their communist country, those types of abuses would never happen.


    Can people be a devotee of National Socialism and imagine that in their National Socialist country, no genocide would happen?

  • highnumber||

    And another thing - I freely admit that I am not familiar with José Saramago's life or work, but the bits I have just read indicate that he was not a Marxist but rather a libertarian communist. If you want to attack his ideology, this seems like an important distinction.

  • ||

    "but rather a libertarian communist"

    That is like saying he was a "Satanic Christian". I don't see how those terms could ever be reconciled.

  • ||

    Voluntarian communist. It's not evil, just insanely naive.

  • Warty||

    If he didn't believe in coercion, then I suppose it's possible. But like you said earlier, then he'd be a utopian socialist.

  • BakedPenguin||

    If you want to start a commune, and get people to voluntarily move there, voluntarily stay there, and voluntarily work there, there's no problem. The Farm is a hippee commune in Tennessee. So far as I know, it's not a cult, and doesn't use coercive measures against anyone. I sure as hell wouldn't live there, but to each his own.

    Also, the Hutterites are religious socialists (nearly all property is communal - due to some verses in Acts), but they don't force anyone to stay with them.

  • Warty||

    I thought they had died out. Are they the last of the 1800s religious socialist utopians?

  • BakedPenguin||

    They actually pre-date the other 19th century socialist utopians. They'd stayed in Europe from the Reformation on, but decided to move to the US and Canada in the 19th century.

    I don't know of any other socialist communes that have managed to stay around for any length of time.

  • WTF||

    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    - Robert A. Heinlein

  • ||

    So if somebody had copied all of Heinlein's books and sold them under their own name he wouldn't have minded?

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • Max||

    Noam Chomsky calls himself a libertarian socialist and thinks you right-wing libertarians are a specific American abberation. Christopher Hitchens (Jesse Walker wishes he were Christopher Hitchens) was long a Trotskyist.

  • T||

    Noam Chomsky could call himself God-Emperor of the Universe and his political beliefs would still oscillate between willfully naive and breathtakingly stupid.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Though he does have a point with his whole military-industrial complex gig. When you spend nearly a trillion dollars a year on your military, you end up with Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, et al becaise you need to justify that cost somehow.

    Otherwise he's a leftist shill.

  • ||

    Noam Chomsky also denied that the Khmer Rouge ever killed anyone. He has defended some of the most vile regimes on earth. There has been no bigger apologist for mass murder in the last quarter of the 20th Century.

    And Hitchens is an ignorant drunk. Just because he is one of the few socialists smart enough and not self loathing enough to see the threat of radical Islam, doesn't make him right about anything else.

  • Max||

    Give me a reference for you Chiomsky comment.

    Hitchens has written an impressive number of books and essays for an ignorant drunk. I'd say he's an erudite drunk.

  • Max||

    "I took the position that Pol Pot was a brutal monster, from the beginning was carrying out hideous atrocities, but the West, for propaganda purposes, was creating and inventing immense fabrications for its own political goals and not out of interest for the people of Cambodia. And my colleague and I with whom I wrote all this stuff simply ran through the list of fanatic lies that were being told and we took the most credible sources, which happened to be US intelligence, who knew more than anyone else. And we said US intelligence is probably accurate. In retrospect, that turns out to be correct, US intelligence was probably accurate. I think we were the only ones who quoted it. The fabrications were fabrications and should be eliminated. In fact, we also discussed, and I noticed nobody ever talks about this, we discussed fabrications against the US. For example a standard claim in the major works was that the US bombings had killed 600,000 people in 1973. We looked at the data and decided it was probably 200,000. So we said let's tell the truth about it. It's a crime, but it's not like anything you said. It's interesting that nobody ever objects to that. When we criticize fabrications about US crimes, that's fine, when we criticize and in fact expose much worse fabrications about some official enemy, that's horrible."--Noam Chomsky

  • ||

    Chomssky as usual is lying.

    "In the case of Cambodia, it is Chomsky and his co-author Edward S. Herman themselves who try to shed doubt on the extent of the horrors that took place. In their After the Cataclysm we read, "The apparent uniformity of refugee testimony is in part at least an artifact reflecting media bias." 3 And to think that we used to believe that independent reports confirmed each other."

    "In order to minimize the extent of Pol Pot's crimes, Chomsky asks, "In the first place, is it proper to attribute deaths from famine and disease to the Cambodian authorities?" 8 It is quite proper if those very authorities caused the famine and disease, which they did by evacuating the cities. He also asks, "Or, one might wonder, how can it be that a population so oppressed by a handful of fanatics does not rise up to overthrow them?":

    http://www.jochnowitz.net/Essays/ExtremistLang.html

    It was not only Chomsky who was sucked into supporting the maelstrom of violence that characterized the communist takeovers in South-East Asia. Almost the whole of the 1960s New Left followed. They opposed the American side and turned Ho Chi Minh and the Vietcong into romantic heroes.

    When the Khmer Rouge took over Cambodia in 1975 both Chomsky and the New Left welcomed it. And when news emerged of the extraordinary event that immediately followed, the complete evacuation of the capital Phnom Penh accompanied by reports of widespread killings, Chomsky offered a rationalization similar to those he had provided for the terror in China and Vietnam: there might have been some violence, but this was understandable under conditions of regime change and social revolution.

    Although information was hard to come by, Chomsky suggested in an article in 1977 that post-war Cambodia was probably similar to France after liberation at the end of World War II when thousands of enemy collaborators were massacred within a few months. This was to be expected, he said, and was a small price to pay for the positive outcomes of the new government of Pol Pot. Chomsky cited a book by two American left-wing authors, Gareth Porter and George Hildebrand, who had “presented a carefully documented study of the destructive American impact on Cambodia and the success of the Cambodian revolutionaries in overcoming it, giving a very favorable picture of their programs and policies.”

    By this time, however, there were two other books published on Cambodia that took a very different line. The American authors John Barron and Anthony Paul called their work Murder of a Gentle Land and accused the Pol Pot regime of mass killings that amounted to genocide. François Ponchaud’s Cambodia Year Zero repeated the charge.

    Chomsky reviewed both books, together with a number of press articles, in The Nation in June 1977. He accused them of publishing little more than anti-communist propaganda. Articles in The New York Times Magazine and The Christian Science Monitor suggested that the death toll was between one and two million people out of a total population of 7.8 million. Chomsky mocked their total and picked at their sources, showing some were dubious and that a famous photograph of forced labor in the Cambodian countryside was actually a fake.

    He dismissed the Barron and Paul book partly because it had been published by Reader’s Digest and publicized on the front page of The Wall Street Journal, both of them notorious anti-communist publications, and partly because they had omitted to report the views of journalists who had been to Cambodia but not witnessed any executions.

    Ponchaud’s book was harder to ignore. It was based on the author’s personal experience in Cambodia from 1965 until the capture of Phnom Penh, extensive interviews with refugees and reports from Cambodian radio. Moreover, it had been favorably reviewed by a left-wing author in The New York Review of Books, a publication for which Chomsky himself had often written. Chomsky’s strategy was to undermine Ponchaud’s book by questioning the credibility of his refugee testimony. Acknowledging that Ponchaud “gives a grisly account of what refugees have reported to him about the barbarity of their treatment at the hands of the Khmer Rouge,” Chomsky said we should be wary of “the extreme unreliability of refugee reports”:

    Refugees are frightened and defenseless, at the mercy of alien forces. They naturally tend to report what they believe their interlocutors wish to hear. While these reports must be considered seriously, care and caution are necessary. Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account.

    In 1980, Chomsky expanded this critique into the book After the Cataclysm, co-authored with his long-time collaborator Edward S. Herman. Ostensibly about Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, the great majority of its content was a defense of the position Chomsky took on the Pol Pot regime. By this time, Chomsky was well aware that something terrible had happened: “The record of atrocities in Cambodia is substantial and often gruesome,” he wrote. “There can be little doubt that the war was followed by an outbreak of violence, massacre and repression.” He mocked the suggestion, however, that the death toll might have reached more than a million and attacked Senator George McGovern’s call for military intervention to halt what McGovern called “a clear case of genocide.”

    Instead, Chomsky commended authors who apologized for the Pol Pot regime. He approvingly cited their analyses that the forced march of the population out of Phnom Penh was probably necessitated by the failure of the 1976 rice crop. If this was true, Chomsky wrote, “the evacuation of Phnom Penh, widely denounced at the time and since for its undoubted brutality, may actually have saved many lives.” Chomsky rejected the charge of genocide, suggesting that

    the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state but rather attributable in large measure to peasant revenge, undisciplined military units out of government control, starvation and disease that are direct consequences of the US war, or other such factors.

    After the Cataclysm also presented a much more extended critique of refugee testimony. Chomsky revealed his original 1977 source for this had been Ben Kiernan, at the time an Australian graduate student and apologist for the Pol Pot regime, who wrote in the Maoist-inspired Melbourne Journal of Politics. What Chomsky avoided telling his readers, however, was that well before 1980, the year After the Cataclysm was published, Kiernan himself had recanted his position."

    Chomsky of course loved and defended Mao as well, even as Chomsky knew Mao was killing millions

    "For all his in-principle disdain of communism, however, when it came to the real world of international politics Chomsky turned out to endorse a fairly orthodox band of socialist revolutionaries. They included the architects of communism in Cuba, Fidel Castro and Che Guevera, as well as Mao Tse-tung and the founders of the Chinese communist state. Chomsky told a forum in New York in December, 1967 that in China “one finds many things that are really quite admirable.” He believed the Chinese had gone some way to empowering the masses along lines endorsed by his own libertarian socialist principles:

    China is an important example of a new society in which very interesting and positive things happened at the local level, in which a good deal of the collectivization and communization was really based on mass participation and took place after a level of understanding had been reached in the peasantry that led to this next step.

    When he provided this endorsement of what he called Mao Tse-tung’s “relatively livable” and “just society,” Chomsky was probably unaware he was speaking only five years after the end of the great Chinese famine of 1958–1962, the worst in human history. He did not know, because the full story did not come out for another two decades, that the very collectivization he endorsed was the principal cause of this famine, one of the greatest human catastrophes ever, with a total death toll of thirty million people."

    http://www.travelbrochuregraph.....homsky.htm

    Chomsky is a horrible human being. But then again so are you Edward. So it makes sense that you would like him.

  • highnumber||

    Why would you say that Jesse Walker wishes he were Hitch? They don't write in similar styles or on similar topics.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Maybe he thinks Jesse wishes he were drunk right NOW.

  • T||

    Hitch almost certainly is.

  • johnG||

    Check out some of the comments:


    Could we point out that Cuba was an impoverished, third world level island with a very low literacy rate. And now(only 50 years later) there is a virtually 100% literacy rate, no homelessness, no malnutrition, and health care for all, and in the face of our economic blockade.
  • ||

    Well, except that you'd be wrong if you were to "point out that Cuba was an impoverished, third world level island with a very low literacy rate."

    Pre-Castro Cuba had the highest standard of living in Latin America and a much higher literacy rate.

    Living standards in the rest of Latin America have increased far more than they have in Cuba, where in fact, in most respect they are now worse than before.

    But Castro still has admirers who believe stuff like the nonsense in that comment.

  • ||

    Communism requires the use of force to get people to share resources. Capitalism requires the use of force to prevent people from sharing resources.

  • ||

    "Capitalism requires the use of force to prevent people from sharing resources."

    Yeah Dan because it is against the law for you to give your things away. What the fuck is the matter with you?

  • ||

    It doesn't prevent people from always sharing resources but Communism doesn't prevent people from owning things either.

  • ||

    Actually, it does - in particular capital goods.

  • ||

    But people in communist countries still own personal items.

  • Corduroy||

    They have no rights to them. They own them at the whim of the state.

  • ||

    "Communism doesn't prevent people from owning things either."

    Yes it does dumb ass. All means of production and raw materials are owned by the collective. Abolishing of private property is like page 1 paragraph 2 of the communist how to manual. Do yourself and everyone on here a favor and go find out what communism actually is before commenting on it.

  • ||

    Means of production and raw materials are not the only kinds of property.

    Obviously in the Soviet Union a person could not just walk over to his neighbor's house and help himself to his food, for example.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • ||

    Obviously in the Soviet Union a person could not just walk over to his neighbor's house and help himself to his food, for example.

    Well, unless he was an appartchik or otherwise an agent of the Soviet state, of course.

  • andy||

    That's because lack of at least de facto property in consumer goods is the recipee for very quick starvation... as Lenin soon found out when he reverted to NEP.

  • andy||

    lack of PROPERTY RIGHTS in capital goods is juts a slower road... still gets to starvation pretty fast 'though... ask the NKoreans..

  • &||

    John is a troll fluff boy.

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • ||

    People share resources all the time in capitalist nations; it is why you have a computer to write your posts on. Of course they do this via the price mechanism and labor, but I'm not quite sure what is wrong with that.

  • ||

    There's nothing wrong with it, but let's not pretend that the people who own things don't use force to prevent them from having to share with those who don't, except on terms favorable to the property owners.

  • Jordan||

    Actually, the terms are mutually favorable, or there would be no agreement. I mean, I'm not surprised that you just go to the store and buy random shit that you don't need or want, but the rest of us aren't retards.

  • ||

    So you think that the people who flip burgers at McDonald's are just there for the love of flipping burgers?

  • ||

    Don't be his porn.

  • Jordan||

    They're obviously there because the McDonalds slavers rounded them up. Oh, no wait. They're there because they've agreed to exchange their labor for something they value: money.

  • Ska||

    And I here I thought I could make a few quick caps rounding up grill boys for Caesar's Legions.

  • Zeb||

    "Capitalism requires the use of force to prevent people from sharing resources."

    That is fucking stupid even for you, Mr. T.

  • Max||

    Would you fear a biker with a swastika on his helmet more or less than a biker with a hammer and sickle on his helmet? Be honest.

  • Max's Porn||

    Communist Body Count: 149,469,610

  • WTF||

    Depends. What's he doing? And where's the helmet.

    Go look up Buddy Hackett's bit about how the word "hand" is worse than the word "ass". Depends on where the guy has the gun...

  • ¢||

    Murder and terror may have been the M.O. of recent historical authoritarian communist nations, but AFAIK they're not "intrinsic" to communism in the same way anti-semitism is fused with Nazism.

    Marx-descended communism is murderous and terroristic (and antisemitic) because that's how Marx wanted it. He was that kind of guy. Lenin reduced Marx to murder and terror and little else. It's Leninism, its derivatives, and its competing murderous Marx-reductions that non-commies refer to when they say "communism," because those are the only kinds of communism that Actually Exist. There's nothing wrong with the usage. Pleasany economic communism is only in books, like Jesus.

    Nazism stripped of its explicit Jew-hating is, point-for-point, American Progressivism—or Nazism is Progressivism with explicit Jew-hating added to it, for historically and culturally specific reasons. Nothing in Nazism's non-Jew-related theories or plans entails its Jew-related theories or plans. Fascism (or socialism, or communism, or Progressivism, or Fabianism, or...) and Jew-hate just appeal to the same people psychologically. They're the same pattern laid over different externalized neuroses (Problems).
    This shit's too long, yo.

  • ¢||

    t, not y

  • ||

    Murder and terror may have been the M.O. of recent historical authoritarian communist nations, but AFAIK they're not "intrinsic" to communism in the same way anti-semitism is fused with Nazism.

    If every single nation to attempt to implement communism has resorted to authoritarian/totalitarian means, resulting in murder and terror, then I'm not sure why I shouldn't conclude that murder and terror are, in fact, intrinsic to communism.

  • ||

    You may conclude that, and I wouldn't say its terribly unreasonable. But that's not what the author argues. He argues that it is such a given that murder and terror will result from any communist experiment that there no room for any "good" person to be a mistaken "idealistic" communist. I don't think that's true. I would say it is true for Nazism.

  • WTF||

    Wondering if SugarFree has programmed a macro, or one of his keys, to enter "Don't be his porn" at the touch of a single key. It would make his herculean (or perhaps sisyphean is more appropriate) task so much easier.

  • Troll Enablers||

    But we like being fluff boys.

  • ||

    No, but I have learned to type it surprisingly fast.

    I know it's fairly futile. Trolls will troll. It's in their nature, like a dog eating turds out of the catbox.

    Replying to that vomitous twatwallet is consenting to him being on here. He doesn't care about the answers to his questions, just the smug stupidity of asking them. He is the very definition of what it means to argue in bad faith.

  • &||

    Trolls will be trolls, but it's their enablers here who have made this place a joke.

  • ||

    Thanks, Sug for the profane and brilliant imagery. You are totally right.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Look in the mirror Sugar free if you want to see someone arguing in bad faith.

  • marlok||

    OH SNAP. You really turned that one around.

  • Towely||

    Finally, I meet someone lamer than I am. Were you created in a Pentagon lab like I was, oh no not this again?

    You wanna get high?

  • Astrid||

    I'd say it's far more Sisyphean than Herculean.

  • Jordan||

    Where the hell is Barfman?

  • ||

    Barfman has given written instructions to inform the commentariat that as a result of his hyperemesis d/t Trollus Progressivus, his secondary condition of ruptured esophogeal varices has necessitated a esophogastrectomy, resulting in permanent enteric nutrition; Barfman is permanently retired from professional barfing.

    He thanks all his fans for their support.

  • Son of Barfman||

    BARF

  • Dan T||

    ARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARFARF

  • Dan T.'s Porn||

    It's okay Dan, maybe you'll have better luck next thread.

  • Liberal Score Board||

    Liberals Who Oppose Communist: Alan Vanneman

    Those who are for Communism: ChiCom Tom, Dan T. Max*

    left anyone out?

    * if you have to qualify, 'but, but capitalism' when talking about communism, V I Lenin would consider you to be just a useful idiot, so, yes, you go in to the 'for communism.'

  • Oh no not this again||

    if you have to qualify, 'but, but communism' when talking about capitalism...

  • Oh no not this again||

    It's nice to see Matt Welch picking up the slack for Glenn Beck, we all know how stressed, overzealous, and tired he is.

  • ||

    The number of people in any system who want to use force--even lethal force--to compel all sorts of behaviors in others is truly disturbing. It's one thing to have laws against murder and theft and altogether something else to execute people for saying the wrong thing, to steal property from some to give to others, etc.

    What a more libertarian system aims for is to minimize the opportunities for people to commit wholesale destruction of life, liberty, and property. At least we acknowledge that humans in large groups are dangerous and try to limit that danger structurally. All of you who think any means are justified by your ideal du jour do neither.

  • Liberal Score Board||

    Liberals Who Oppose Communist: Alan Vanneman

    Those who are for Communism: ChiCom Tom, Dan T., Max, Oh no not this again*

    So, so far, only Vanneman is not a punk bomb thrower who doesn't know any better in this score board.

    *moral equivalence between capitalism and communism isn't as clever as you think it is, in fact, it is a mark of extreme ignorance.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Which isn't really what i did, "if you have to qualify, 'but, but communism' when talking about capitalism..."

    It's actually what WElch et al have been doing for sometime since they could no longer deny that there was an economic crisis, other than blaming the victim i.e. borrowers, unions. They're acting the same way actual communists act, don't blame communism, blame the people who perverted it for violent authoritarian ends. To argue in bad faith, to say those fellow travelers of the free market aren't responsible for the decline in America is to be either in denial or thuggish. This is what happens when capitalism and authoritarians collaborate to abusive ends, we get a left wing resurgence. Now, if you wanted to have a discussion on limiting corporate influence in our politics and lives, that would go a long way toward alleviating the problems we face. If the idea is abhorrent to you then all i can say is you're part of the problem not the solution. More of the same isn't what's needed.

  • Liberal Score Board||

    Really simple. All you had to do was show your unqualified disgust for an abhorrent system. That you instinctively chose the comparative route because you know of no other way to react shows you up.

    Easiest test in the world to take, but you failed because passing it would be a denial of who you are to your bones even if your mouth says otherwise, a Communist.

    Now, we'll go easy on you because the baiting is way too easy when the fish are as cooperative as you are. Except for Vanneman, we will have to take back the liberal label from the rest of you and use Socialist as a more accurate designation of your affiliation.

    A real pity, though. Likely no more than twenty years ago, there would have been far more New Dealer and Great Society types on your side of the aisle who did not stray so far from classical liberalism that the label wasn't applicable, but it looks like smelly, stringy hair bomb throwers at WTO meetings dominate the leftist agenda now.

  • Oh no not this again||

    Very nice, very well rehearsed, i feel sorry for you, why, because you're a thug. Sorry not to engage in the spoonfed anticommie propaganda, but im really not into rehashing shit from decades ago, an age ago.

    The real danger comes from those who call themselves capitalist, they make the laws, they control the government, and they have their boots on the workers of China, america, and wherever a work gets uppity.

    Here's a test for ya, who's the greater danger to liberty today? Glenn Beck or some scruffy communist on the corner

  • Liberal Score Board||

    Someone tells you truth you don't want to hear and that is thuggery. You could pile of the skulls and bones from progressivist actions (even imperialism was justified with 'manifest destination' progressivism) several miles high, and that is progress.

    You have to pretty insular to live in your reality bubble, fool.

  • Liberal Score Board||

    Shit, fucking random IM popped up while editing, forced a submit

    Someone tells you truth you don't want to hear and that is thuggery. You could pile up the skulls and bones from progressivist actions (even imperialism was justified with 'manifest destination' progressivism) several miles high, and that is progress.

    You have to be pretty insular to live in your reality bubble, fool.

  • #||

    not to mention that communist philosophy, as envisioned by marx, explicity requires a violent revolution.

  • ||

    You don't hear much about the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, do you?

  • Oh no not this again||

    Well if i owned the media.......

  • ||

    I'll repeat (if only to myself): Sarmago didn't defend or embrace communism as an ideology or in theory.

    He embraced actual communists and communist governments. Y'know, the ones that slaughtered people and imprisoned them? He didn't say about Castro or Mao, "This isn't the communism that I support". He supported them and their application of communism.

    Supporting communism in theory is one thing; supporting murderers is another.

  • ||

    Exactly. And everyone communist I have ever heard of did more than support it in "theory". All of them at one time or another have acted as apologists for mass murderers.

  • ||

    FYI:

    THREADED COMMENTS STILL SUCK.

  • ||

    Ain't that the truth?

  • ||

    “The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans freedom and before I leave office I must inform the Citizen of his plight.” PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY(5 months after he signed Executive Order 11110, and 10 days before he was murdered)
    On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Common Law Institute has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress and can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superseded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid. When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy – the author of Profiles in Courage -signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -money –DEBT FREE, without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy’s Executive Order 11110 gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: “to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury.” This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury’s vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there. As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated. It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America. “United States Notes” were issued as an interest-free and debt-free currency backed by silver reserves in the U.S. Treasury.
    The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was slipped through Congress during the Christmas recess, with many members of the Congress absent, in fact just three senators between 1:00 am and 4:00 am in the morning. President Woodrow Wilson, pressured by his political and financial backers, signed it on December 23, 1913.The act created the Federal Reserve System, a name carefully selected and designed to deceive. “Federal” would lead one to believe that this is a government organization. “Reserve” would lead one to believe that the currency is being backed by gold and silver. “System” was used in lieu of the word “bank” so that one would not conclude that a new central bank had been created.Federal Reserve banks are privately owned In Violation To the US Constitution Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution specifically says that Congress is the only body that can “coin money and regulate the value thereof.” The US Constitution has never been amended to allow anyone other than Congress to coin and regulate currency.Ask your representative, in light of that information, how it is possible for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and the Federal Reserve Bank that it created, to be constitutional. Ask them why this private banking cartel is allowed to reap trillions of dollars in profits without paying taxes. Insist on an answer.Thomas Jefferson said, “If the America people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

    Every year your income is taxed to pay for the printing of money from nothing, to pay a criminal institution that is in violation to the United States Constitution!

    "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

    President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 and the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation.

    Rothschild lied when he said, “I care not who makes a country’s laws as long as I make their money.” He judged everyone by his own standards and assumed that everyone was like him and had their price. Unfortunately, it appears he was right about the majority of people.
    The fact that the New World Order got their puppet politicians to enact the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, and the fact that they had John F. Kennedy killed when he went to repeal it, is proof that Rothschild lied. Their Achilles’ Heel is The Bible – in The Covenant that prohibits not only legislation but usury upon which their system thrives. Cut off their illegal legislation and usury and they will fall.
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!
    A WHORE PROSTITUTES HERSELF FOR MONEY, SO DO THESE GOD HATING NEW WORLD ORDER MURDERING COMMUNIST COWARDS!
    Revelation 17:16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the WHORE, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. While Richard Nixon was President, the United States of America was officially divided up into ten regions, under what is now called “Regional Governments.” “All United States Government Programs, and all United States Government funds, are distributed not to the fifty states, but to the “Ten Regional Headquarters,” and from there they go directly to the cities, and the counties bypassing the fifty State Governments.” THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE NOW DIVIDED INTO TEN REGIONAL GOVERNMENTS (FEMA)
    Revelation 17:12-17 (King James Version) 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
    THE TEN HORNS OF THE BEAST It is not the nations of Europe, which have built up the Beast of World Communism and the New World Order of Mystery Babylon; instead it has been The United States of America that has built up World Communism and the New World Order. It is from America , which has come the food, technology, and money by which Russia has been able to conquer and control the nations of Asia, and Eastern Europe .
    America was born in one day July 4th 1776
    Isaiah 66:7-8 (King James Version) 7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as ZION travailed, she brought forth her children.
    America = ZION!
    Jeremiah 50: 28The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in ZION the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple. 29Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
    This is from the 45 Communist goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 46 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963 Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .
    3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
    11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
    15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States .
    26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
    27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a “religious crutch.”
    30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
    31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
    Jeremiah 50:16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the SICKLE in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
    Jeremiah 50:23How is the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH CUT ASUNDER AND BROKEN! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
    BABYLON = the HAMMER and SICKLE!
    Carl Marx, once wrote that, the goal of the Communists was to quote,. “enter into men’s minds and cast God down from his throne.”
    Matthew 12:30-32 (King James Version) 30He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
    Jeremiah 50:14 “ Put yourselves in array against Babylon all around, All you who bend the bow; Shoot at her, spare no arrows, For she has sinned against the LORD.
    2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version) 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Luke 22:35-36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. 36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
    Acts5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
    Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on searpents and scorpions, and over all of the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
    Jeremiah 50:14 “ Put yourselves in array against Babylon all around, All you who bend the bow; Shoot at her, spare no arrows, For she has sinned against the LORD.
    BABYLON = the HAMMER and SICKLE!
    “I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.”—Roger Baldwin, leftist, anarchist, and Communist, was born in Wellesley MA and co-founded the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).
    “The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”— Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential Candidate in 1940, 1944 and 1948, co-founder of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).
    “We can’t expect the American people to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have communism.”—Nikita Kruschev, former Soviet Premier/dictator.
    “My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.” Carl MarxMatthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.On January 22nd 1973 The high jacked U.S Supreme Court legalized unrestricted abortions since that time over 50 million babies have been murdered, How can this be a Christian Nation, how can you follow the commands of God Almighty and allow this to continue? It is difficult for many people to accept the truth that several of our nations top leaders have been members of the occultic Bohemian Grove. George W. Bush is also a member of this occult organization. Since 1873, the Global Elite Has Held Secret Meetings in the Ancient Redwood Forest of Northern California. Members of the so-called “Bohemian Club” Include Former Presidents Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan. The Bush Family Maintains a Strong Involvement. Each Year at Bohemian Grove, Members of This All-Male “Club” Don Red, Black and Silver Robes and Conduct an Occult Ritual Wherein They Worship a Giant Stone Owl, Sacrificing a Human Being in Effigy to What They Call the “Great Owl of Bohemia.
    ”Leviticus 26 1Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
    Leviticus 19:4 4Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
    In ancient Babylon the priest sacrificed babies to their god baal, in America the communist under their socialist programs have sacrificed over 50 million American babies to their god satan!
    Obama wants to support abortion with taxpayer money.
    Deuteronomy 19:8-10 8 If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, and gives you the whole land he promised them, 9 because you carefully follow all these laws I command you today—to love the LORD your God and to walk always in his ways—then you are to set aside three more cities. 10 Do this so that INNOCENT BLOOD WILL NOT BE SHED IN YOUR LAND, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed.
    Leviticus 26:14-20 14 ” ‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; THOSE WHO HATE YOU WILL RULE OVER YOU, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you. 18 ” ‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.
    THOSE WHO HATE YOU WILL RULE OVER YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
    “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” – Barack Hussein Obama – Audacity of Hope
    “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter…” (Qur’an 5:33). “Allah’s Apostle said: ‘I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform at that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah’” (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24). “War is deceit” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268). “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57). Or how about Mohammed’s raping of his nine-year-old “wife” and justifying it by saying Allah ordained it: “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old” (Tabari 9:131). “Allah’s Apostle told Aisha [his six-year-old bride and nine-year-old sexual "partner"], ‘You were shown to me twice in my dreams. I beheld a man or angel carrying you in a silken cloth. He said to me, “She is yours, so uncover her.” And behold, it was you. I would then say to myself, “If this is from Allah, then it must happen”’” (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Number 139-140).
    When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, China presented no threat to the United States . Chinese missiles “couldn’t hit the side of a barn,” notes Timothy W. Maier of Insight magazine. Few could reach North America and those that made it would likely miss their targets. Thanks to Bill Clinton, China can now hit any city in the USA , using state-of-the-art solid-fueled missiles with dead-accurate, computerized guidance systems and multiple warheads. China probably has suitcase nukes as well. These enable China to strike by proxy— equipping nuclear-armed terrorists to do its dirty work while the Chinese play innocent. Some intelligence sources claim that China maintains secret stockpiles of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons on U.S. soil, for just such contingencies. “We like your president. We want to see him re-elected,” former Chinese intelligence chief Gen. Ji Shengde told China gate bagman Johnny Chung. Indeed, Chinese intelligence organized a massive covert operation aimed at tilting the 1996 election Clinton ’s way. Clinton’s top campaign contributors for 1992 were Chinese agents; his top donors in 1996 were U.S. defense contractors selling missile technology to China . Clinton recieved funding directly from known or suspected Chinese intelligence agents, among them James and Mochtar Riady, who own the Indonesian Lippo Group; John Huang; Charlie Trie; Ted Sioeng; Maria Hsia; Wang Jun and others. Needless to say, China does not share Clinton ’s enthusiasm for globalism or multipolarity. The Chinese look out for No. 1. “War [with the United States ] is inevitable; we cannot avoid it,” said Chinese Defense Minister Gen. Chi Haotian in 2000. “The issue is that the Chinese armed forces must control the initiative in this war.” By Richard Poe.
    THOSE WHO HATE YOU WILL RULE OVER YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
    Joshua 23:14-16 14 “Behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth. And you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one thing has failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spoke concerning you. All have come to pass for you; not one word of them has failed. 15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all the good things have come upon you which the LORD your God promised you, so the LORD will bring upon you all harmful things, until He has destroyed you from this good land which the LORD your God has given you. 16 When you have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which He commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed down to them, then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and you shall perish quickly from the good land which He has given you.”
    “ America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln.
    Carl Marx, once wrote that, the goal of the Communists was to quote,. “enter into men’s minds and cast God down from his throne.”
    “If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”- George Washington , General, Commander in Chief of the colonial armies in the American Revolution and first President of the United States of America.
    Political Correctness a term first seen in Mao’s Little Red Book, a communist engendered abomination that is instituting censorship little by little.
    ——————————————————————————–
    REPENT! AND TURN BACK TO GOD!
    Leviticus 26: 40-46 40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 41And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 42Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. 43The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes. 44And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. 45But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD. 46These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
    ——————————————————————————–
    1 Thessalonians 5:3 (King James Version) 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    Luke 22:35-36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. 36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
    Luke 22:36 (New King James Version) Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no SWORD, let him sell his GARMENT and buy one. Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his GARMENTS, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” Luke 22:36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no SWORD, let him sell his GARMENT and buy one. WATCH AND KEEP YOUR SWORD!!!!!!!!! Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
    ALL NATIONS SURROUNDED ME, BUT IN THE NAME OF THE LORD I WILL DESTROY THEM. Psalm 118:10
    Jeremiah 50:14-16 14Put yourselves in array against Babylon round about: all ye that bend the bow, shoot at her, spare no arrows: for she hath sinned against the LORD. 15Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the LORD: take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her. 16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the SICKLE in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land. Jeremiah 50:22-46 22A sound of battle is in the land, and of great destruction. 23How is the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH CUT ASUNDER AND BROKEN! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations! 24I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD. 25The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans. 26Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left. 27Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation. 28The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple. 29Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel. 30Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD. 31Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. 32And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him. 33Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go. 34Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon. 35A sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men. 36A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed. 37A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people that are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed. 38A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols. 39Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. 40As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein. 41Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. 42They shall hold the bow and the lance: they are cruel, and will not shew mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they shall ride upon horses, every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon. 43The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail. 44Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong: but I will make them suddenly run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me? 45Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Babylon; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them. 46At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.
    In ancient Babylon the priest sacrificed babies to thier god baal, in America the communist under their socialist programs have sacrificed over 50 million American babies to their god satan!
    MYSTERY BABYLON WILL BE DESTROYED BY VIOLENCE Verse 21 it says that Mystery Babylon will be thrown down with violence, it says; Rev. 18:21: And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    Jeremiah 48:10Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.
    Jeremiah 51:20 “ You are My battle-ax and weapons of war: For with you I will break the nation in pieces; With you I will destroy kingdoms;
    Jeremiah 50:14 “ Put yourselves in array against Babylon all around, All you who bend the bow; Shoot at her, spare no arrows, For she has sinned against the LORD.
    Jeremiah 50:16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the SICKLE in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
    Jeremiah 50:23How is the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH CUT ASUNDER AND BROKEN! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
    BABYLON = the HAMMER and SICKLE !
    Psalm 118:5 I called on the LORD in distress; The LORD answered me and set me in a broad place. 6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me? 7 The LORD is for me among those who help me; Therefore I shall see my desire on those who hate me. 8 It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man. 9 It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in princes. 10 All nations surrounded me, But in the name of the LORD I will destroy them. 11 They surrounded me, Yes, they surrounded me; But in the name of the LORD I will destroy them. 12 They surrounded me like bees; They were quenched like a fire of thorns; For in the name of the LORD I will destroy them. Joshua 23:10 10 One man of you shall chase a thousand, for the LORD your God is He who fights for you, as He promised you.
    Revelation 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily[a] with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.” 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached[b] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you,[c] and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges[d] her.
    Revelation 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.
    THE THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS DIVIDE MYSTERY BABYLON INTO THREE PARTS
    Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walks naked, and they see his shame. 16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. For all practical purposes, the sixth vial has been completed. The world is now gathered, for that battle. Then after the sixth vial of God’s Wrath is completed upon the earth, then comes the vision, of the seventh angel, with the seventh vial of God’s Wrath upon the earth. Rev. 16:17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. . Rev. 16:17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightning’s; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19: And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. In other words, the pouring out the seventh vial into the air, is the end of the pouring out of God’s Wrath upon the earth. The end of God’s Wrath upon the earth, would be when the work of the seventh vial was complete, and the completed works of the seventh vial is, “the destruction of Mystery Babylon, The Great.” After the seventh angel pours out the seventh vial, Rev. 18-19 says; Rev. 18:18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightning’s; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
    19: And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
    MYSTERY BABYLON IS NOW DIVIDED INTO THREE PARTS The earthquake spoken of here, is the symbolic shaking of the earth, which then divides “Mystery Babylon” the “City That Rules Over The Kings Of The Earth,” into three parts. In other words this world system of exploitation and wickedness is now divided into three parts. God is shaking “Mystery Babylon ” in order to destroy the anti-Christian Babylonian System of World Rule. According to these scriptures, this present Mystery Babylonian world ruling system is to be divided into three parts, prior to her destruction. Mystery Babylon is now divided into three parts. In Rev. 17:18 she is identified, as that “Great City That Reigns Over the Kings Of The Earth.” Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. In the above verse it says that the Governments and nations (Note–cities of the nations) fell. This is largely complete today. Almost every non-Communist Government in all the world has fallen, and has been replaced by a government, controlled by secret, or open Red-Communists, in what is described in chapter 17, and 18 as Mystery Babylon, and which we moderns call ” the Worlds Shadow Government.” That Babylon , or world Communism, operates today in three parts, is obvious to students of current events, although many of them know nothing of Bible prophecy. World Communism, or the people who control World Communism, from behind the scenes, have it divided into three spheres of influence.
    One is the Russian sphere , largely Northern
    Asia, or Russia or Eastern Europe, including Poland , Czheckoslovokia , Hungary etc., Moscow is it’s headquarters.
    The second part of Mystery Babylon, is the control of the United States , the Western Hemisphere, England , and Western Europe , New York is it’s headquarters. The third part of Mystery Babylon, is the Chinese sphere of influence , in Eastern Asia, such as India , Southeastern Asia, Vietnam , Cambodia , etc..
    This third part, or the Chinese part, also includes what the Communists, and the news media like to call, the third world, referring to the non-white peoples in Africa, and Eastern Asia, Peking is it’s headquarters.
    The Book of Revelation, show in the 17th, and 18th chapters, that as the governments of the nations fell, this power would be executed in three parts.
    Mystery Babylon , would not seem to be a monolithic world structure, but would be a three part, world ruling system. That World Communism is a world ruling system, is obvious to anyone who studies current world history.
    THE THREE PARTS OF MYSTERY BABYLON ARE SECRET PARTNERS, AS THEY WORK TOGETHER, TO ROB AND PLUNDER THE PEOPLES OF THE EARTH As the United States fought on one side of a war in Vietnam, and Russia, and China fought on the other side, and publicly declare to each other to be enemies, the rulers of America, China, and Russia, carry on negotiations, trade, exchanges information, and visit each other, just as if they had no dis-agreement, and in truth, they have none. The rulers of the three parts of Babylon , are in complete agreement, the dis-agreements are but show, to deceive the people into thinking, that they must be prepared for war, and even fight in wars against each other, to protect themselves from each other. The wars, and the preparations for wars, including unbelievable taxation, go into the hands of the rulers, of each of these three parts of Mystery Babylon,
    making them rich. That is why our Secretary of State, and our President, can put their arms around and hug, Mau Tse Tung, and other Communist Rulers of China, and Gorbachav and all their leaders of Russia, and smile fondly upon each other, and show genuine friendship, they are friends, they are fellow compatriots, in the plunder, and robbery of all the peoples of the earth. Their robbery of the people would not work, if the people realized that there was no real reason for war, and for preparedness for war against other peoples. Americans would not allow themselves to be taxed, 80 billions of dollars every year for defense, or over two and a half trillions of dollars since 1950, unless they were convinced, by their statesman, that America must fear Russia , and China . The same thing goes on in Russia, and China so Mystery Babylon’s Government is never seen by the peoples of the world, as one entity, all of the people see it as disagreeing
    nations, and peoples, who must be continually be armed for war, and in fact most often fight great battles, and wars around the world. All of these wars end up, with out destroying any of the power of the ruling anti-Christians, but actually exalts their power over the nations. The Christian Peoples, are the major suppliers of money, and blood for these wars. The rulers of the world are not opposed to World Communism, but actually support it. Our fields, our factories, and our pocketbooks are stripped to build up Russian industry, and to send food to save the Communist Government of China, and foolish Christians still think, our rulers are opposed to Communism. In truth, what you see in operation, is the three parts of Mystery Babylon, the City that is divided into three parts. THE THREE PARTS OF MYSTERY BABYLON The three parts of Mystery Babylon operate together in co-operation, to control and enslave all the peoples of the earth.
    The major goal of Mystery Babylon is to rob all the people of all their wealth. Revelation, 18:3 it gives an indication of this robbery, it says; Rev. 18:3 the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies . And verse 11 says; Rev. 18:11: And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more
    THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE DRUNK WITH THE WINE OF MYSTERY BABYLON In other words, this verse says that the whole world is drunk, or irrational, with Babylon’s wine. Babylon’s wine in this case, would be Babylon’s false ideologies, teachings, and propaganda. The people of the world have been walking as if they were drunk or confused and are walking in darkness. Babylon calls this wine of darkness, “light.” And the Kings of the earth, and the religions of the earth, including the American Churches, have drunk of the wine, of her dark ideologies. Babylon has caused the peoples of the world, to live and act, as if they were drunk. In Rev. 17:3 it says; Rev. 17:3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Verse 9, it says that the seven heads, are seven mountains, and the ten horns, are ten kings; Rev. 17:9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. The James Moffatt version of the Bible says of the same verse 9, that the seven heads are seven mountains, and seven hills. There is a city of great importance, in the present world’s anti-Christ system, which is built on seven hills. In Colliers Magazine, dated, April 28, 1951, it says from an article titled, “This is Moscow today,” quote– “Moscow, showcase of the USSR, sits on a large plain, on the plains of the Moscow, and Usa rivers, which are frozen about five months of the year. Out of the plain rise seven low hills, on the highest of which, is the Kremlin, the walled fortress of Ancient Moscow, and now the guarded citadel, of the Politburo. From the Kremlin, comes the politburo’s booming challenge, to the Western World.” End of quote. Moscow, capitol of Communist Russia, and headquarters of the vast propaganda apparatus, which has invaded the Christian West, is a city built on seven hills. The verse says that the seven hills are on the Scarlet Colored Beast, upon which Mystery Babylon sits. Moscow has seven hills, Moscow’s flag is red, or scarlet, and they even call themselves the “Reds.” Then in verse four through six it says; Rev. 17:4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. These verses show that she is very wealthy, and is responsible for all the filthy abominations upon the earth. She has caused the deaths of so many Christians, that John could only describe her, as being drunken with their blood. This verse alone, is enough to prove, that this is a great anti-Christ ruling over the earth now, not after the Christians are supposedly raptured into heaven. Mystery Babylon, could not have been drunken with the blood of the Saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus, if all she can persecute, and kill is unbelievers and the heathen, who are the only ones supposedly left on the earth after the pre-Tribulation Rapture, being taught by the establishment Jewish controlled Christian Churches. Most Pastors, who preach the pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church, tell you that the entire Book of Revelations, after chapter six, is completed after this rapture. This is the doctrine of devils, by devils. Christian America will be delivered, in the “Day of God’s Wrath upon Mystery Babylon.” MYSTERY BABYLON WILL BE DESTROYED BY VIOLENCE Verse 21 it says that Mystery Babylon will be thrown down with violence, it says; Rev. 18:21: And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    In ancient Babylon their economy was based on usury.
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!
    In America On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. Five months later A UNITED STATES PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY was MURDERED BY COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!
    In ancient Babylon their priest sacrificed babies to their gods Baal, and molech.
    In America the communist under their socialist programs have sacrificed over 50 million American babies to their god satan!
    Leviticus 20:2-5
    2Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel , Whosoever he be of the children of Israel , or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel , that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
    3And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
    4And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
    5Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
    Obama wants to support abortion with taxpayer money.
    Carl Marx, once wrote that, the goal of the Communists was to quote,. “enter into men’s minds and cast God down from his throne.”Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.On February 23, 1857, in a two hour sermon to the U.S. Congress a Reverend F. E. Pitts told Congress, that America was Zion , and that the battle of “Armageddon” would be fought between the United States of America , and Russia . He said these two colossal powers, will meet in a last decisive struggle, to be fulfilled in a conflict, that will enlist all nations, stir the world with commotion, and drench the earth with blood.
    The Bible says that it is the communist who will be thrown down with violence.

  • ||

    Did you know that President’s Day was originally Washington’s Birthday? Does anyone remember him? You Know the Father of our country. The man who defied a Tyrant at the risk of his own life, and that of his family. The man who if caught would have been hung as a traitor because he knew that there was a higher authority than that of evil tyrannical rulers, an authority that everyone will eventually be accountable to! An authority that he often gave all the credit praise and glory to even while suffering the hardships of the winter at Valley Forge with his half naked, starving ragtag army who’s tracks could be traced by the blood left in the snow by many of his soldiers bare feet, almost always without provisions, a good quarter of the army died of cold, starvation, and disease. Several thousand more deserted. Yet those who stayed and survived the suffering of that brutal winter formed a brotherhood that could never be broken, for it was God Almighty that General George Washington credited for the American Army overcoming overwhelming odds and devastating hardships and defeating the strongest military power of his time! The very same authority that the communist of the world hate and despise because they are the egotistical, arrogant, self serving, self proclaimed masters of the universe, who expect you and me to bow down to! For History repeats itself and when communist and other tyrannical invaders destroyed a society from within, they first destroyed their history and their national pride, don’t let this happen remember our Fore Fathers and the risk they took for our Declaration of Independence! They knew exactly how to deal with Tyrants and we are their descendants, never let our children forget! I took an oath to protect my country against all enemies! Foreign and domestic!

    A nation that does not remember where it came from, or what its foundations were, is easily destroyed, by its enemies, either from within, or without.

    What kind of man was George Washington that ordinary men would follow him, though the misery and hardships of Valley Forge, on to the battle fields against the strongest military power of their time, fighting for a cause that if lost their very reason for fighting, the Declaration of Independence would have been their death warrants.

    Over 60 years ago all American children learned in school, the story of our founding father George Washington, as a 23 year old Colonel of Virginia Militia under the British General Braddock along the banks of the Monongahela river, near Fort Duquesne, which is now Pittsburgh , Pa. and how he miraculously survived the first major battle of the French and Indian War at the hand of God, 20 years before the signing of the declaration of independence.

    The Battle of the Mongahela, also known as Braddock’s Defeat was fought on July 9th 1755. 

     Washington had done everything he could to inform Gen. Braddock of the tactics of the French & Indians, of getting down behind cover and firing only when a target was visible, but Braddock was insulted to be advised by an inferior officer. On the morning of July 9th, 1755, Braddock and 1000 of his men, along with Washington and some of his Virginia regulars, crossed the southern shore of the Monongahela.
    Colonel Thomas Gage had a forward detachment of 350 soldiers, and 250 workers, and axemen, cutting a path. They were about 10 miles from Ft. Duquesne. It was around 1:00 pm. Gage and the forward detachment had just crossed a ravine, when scouts, and flanking parties came running back towards them, waving them off. Just then, they were hit with a fusillade of musket balls. It immediately became chaos. The British could not see their enemy, for they were hidden behind rocks, hills, and trees. The rain of bullets kept coming in on them, dropping them like flies. Gage’s men fired back at the direction of the smoke plumes from their enemies’ rifles, but hit nothing but rocks, hills, and trees, merely splintering bark. Gage’s men continued to drop, and the horses, some of them wounded, began to panic, and bolt, carrying wagons full of their weapons and ammo, trampling men on the ground as they galloped off. The workers and axe men fled. For the Indians, who were crack marksmen, this was like shooting sitting ducks! Eventually what was left of Gage’s forward detachment began to retreat. Gen. Braddock, hearing the gunfire, left 400 troops along with most of the Virginia regulars, with Sir Peter Halkett, and most of the baggage. Braddock and his remaining troops, Washington, and a 100 or so, Virginia militia hastened towards the battle. The retreating men collided with the advancing men, setting them to more confusion. All the while, the French and Indians continued to rain down musket balls upon them with deadly accuracy, and force. It became an instant slaughter, as Braddock instructed his men to form columns (making them easy to hit, because of their red coats, and being in plain sight) like they were accustomed to doing in Europe. Musket balls rained down on them at will, cutting them down and anything else that gets in its way, with an instantaneous efficiency! The 100 or so Virginia men, quickly adopted the Indian style of warfare, and dropped behind trees, and shot when only an enemy target was visible. Gen. Braddock was furious at this, and barked orders for them to get out from behind the trees. He saw this as cowardice, according to his rules of engagement. Braddock was undaunted in his task, bravely going to and fro amidst the shower of musket balls, trying to rally his troops. He had five horses shot out from under him. But for all his bravery, and reckless courage, he could not stem the tide.

     God’s hand can be seen protecting Washington this whole time. Because he was busy going back and forth across the battle field, completely exposed. Carrying out General Braddock’s orders. One soldier observing Washington stated: “I expected every moment to see him fall. Nothing but the superintending care of Providence could have saved him.” Indians testified later, that they had singled him out, but their bullets had no effect on him. The chief suddenly realized that a mighty power must be shielding this man. “Stop firing!” he commanded. “This one is under the special protection of the Great Spirit.” A brave standing nearby stated, “I had seventeen clear shots at him…and after all could not bring him to the ground. This man was not born to be killed by a bullet.” They were convinced that an Invisible Power was protecting him. Washington had two horses shot out from under him, he had four bullet holes in his coat. Yet he had been untouched by bullet, or arrow. Scores of victims had fallen beside him, yet he went unharmed, protected by God’s hand! Every other mounted officer had been slain! Eventually, Braddock was mortally wounded in the side, and fell. When this occurred, all the British troops fled in confusion. Washington gathered up what was left of the Virginia men, barely 30, the injured General, and covered the retreating British, leaving all the baggage, weapons, provisions, cattle, horses, behind for the enemy to plunder. General Braddock died three days later. In the aftermath, 714 British soldiers had been killed, 37 wounded. 26 officers out of 86 were killed, and 37 wounded. Only 30 men and 3 officers were killed, of the French and Indians!

    15 years later, after this battle, an old respected Indian Chief, sought out council with Washington , when he heard that he was in the area. Through an interpreter he explained that he had set out on a long journey to meet Washington personally, and to speak to him about the battle 15 years earlier. He said: “I am a chief and ruler over my tribes. My influence extends to the waters of the great lakes and to the far Blue Mountains . I have traveled a long and weary path that I might see the young warrior of the great battle. It was on the day when the white man’s blood mixed with the streams of our forest that I first beheld this chief. I called to my young men and said, mark yon tall and daring warrior? He is not of the red-coat tribe—he hath an Indian’s wisdom, and his warriors fight as we do—him is alone exposed. Quick, let your aim be certain, and he dies. Our rifles were leveled, rifles which, but for you, knew not how to miss—’twas all in vain, a power mightier far than we, shielded you. Seeing you were under the special guard ship of the Great Spirit, we immediately ceased to fire at you. I am old and soon shall be gathered to the great council fire of my fathers in the land of shades, but ere I go, there is something bids me speak in the voice of prophecy. Listen! The Great Spirit protects that man [pointing at Washington ], and guides his destinies—he will become the chief of nations, and a people yet unborn will hail him as the founder of a mighty empire. I am come to pay homage to the man who is the particular favorite of Heaven, and who can never die in battle.”


    This story was once well known by all Americans, taught to our children in our schools


    . But thanks to the traitors, and infiltrators who hate God and America this story and many like it can no longer be taught in school to our children!

    This is not the complete list; it was taken from the 45 Communist goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963.

    Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963 Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .
    27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a “religious crutch.”
    30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
    31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

    Political Correctness a term first seen in Mao’s Little Red Book, a communist engendered abomination that is instituting censorship little by little.

    “If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”- George Washington

    Carl Marx, once wrote that, the goal of the Communists was to quote,. “enter into men’s minds and cast God down from his throne.”

    Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


    In ancient Babylon their economy was based on usury.
    "If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!
     Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states that only the Congress can print and coin money! 

    The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was slipped thru congress during the Christmas break with the majority of it's members absent. 

    The Federal Reserve is self serving and privately owned in violation to the Constitution, charging interest on illegally printed money. Money printed from nothing!
    In America On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. Five months later A UNITED STATES PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY was MURDERED BY COMMUNIST!
    "If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!

    In ancient Babylon their priest sacrificed babies to their gods baal, and molech.  
    In America the communist under their socialist programs have sacrificed over 50 million American babies to their god satan!
    Leviticus 20:2-5
    2Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel , Whosoever he be of the children of Israel , or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel , that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
    3And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
    4And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
    5Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

    Luke 22:35-36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. 36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

    Jeremiah 50:16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the SICKLE in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
    Jeremiah 50:23How is the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH CUT ASUNDER AND BROKEN! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
    BABYLON = the HAMMER and SICKLE!

    Jeremiah 50:14 “ Put yourselves in array against Babylon all around, All you who bend the bow; Shoot at her, spare no arrows, For she has sinned against the LORD.

    All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them. Psalm 118:10


    "The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!"
    George Washington


    "NO KING BUT KING JESUS!"
            

  • ||

    Luke 10:18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
    In ancient Hebrew the word for lightning is barack, the word for heaven or the
    heights is bama and to connect the words either an “a” or an “o” is used.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)
    3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
    come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Political Correctness a term first seen in Mao’s Little Red Book, a communist engendered abomination that is instituting censorship little by little.

    “If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”- George Washington

    Carl Marx, once wrote that, the goal of the Communists was to quote,. “enter into men’s minds and cast God down from his throne.”

    Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


    In ancient Babylon their economy was based on usury.
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!
     Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states that only the Congress can print and coin money! 

    The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was slipped thru congress during the Christmas break with the majority of it’s members absent. 

    The Federal Reserve is self serving and privately owned in violation to the Constitution, charging interest on illegally printed money. Money printed from nothing!
    In America On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. Five months later A UNITED STATES PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY was MURDERED BY COMMUNIST!
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. Exodus 22:25
    Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:13
    Usury is unlawful; expressly prohibited by GOD!

    In ancient Babylon their priest sacrificed babies to their gods baal, and molech.  
    In America the communist under their socialist programs have sacrificed over 50 million American babies to their god satan!
    Leviticus 20:2-5
    2Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel , Whosoever he be of the children of Israel , or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel , that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
    3And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
    4And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
    5Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

    Luke 22:35-36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. 36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

    Jeremiah 50:16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the SICKLE in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
    Jeremiah 50:23How is the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH CUT ASUNDER AND BROKEN! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
    BABYLON = the HAMMER and SICKLE!

    Jeremiah 50:14 “ Put yourselves in array against Babylon all around, All you who bend the bow; Shoot at her, spare no arrows, For she has sinned against the LORD.

    All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them. Psalm 118:10


    “The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!”. George Washington

    “NO KING BUT KING JESUS!”

     

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