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Well, His Shirt Was White...
The social construction of the brownshirt
menace,
chapter DXXIII:
On Tuesday, MSNBC's Contessa Brewer fretted over health care reform protesters legally carrying guns: "A man at a pro-health care reform rally...wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip....there are questions about whether this has racial overtones....white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.
Tomcat1066|8.20.09 @ 10:24AM|#
Never let the facts get in the way of pontification, especially when you can scream racism!
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 10:27AM|#
Hahahahah! How the fuck did morons come to rule the world?
Oh, wait. Right. Democracy.
|8.20.09 @ 10:29AM|#
She got the narative right. It was the facts that were wrong. Also, we all know any black person who is not a leftist is not a real black person.
|8.20.09 @ 10:29AM|#
Christ all Mighty, It's worse than I thought, It's a Black man with Guns. Holy Shit!
semm|8.20.09 @ 10:30AM|#
They cropped his head out of the shot so all you could see was the gun. The average viewer would have no idea that it was a black man and what Brewer was saying made no sense. Pretty crazy
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 10:35AM|#
And what WILL happen when infinite computing power is meshed with infinite human stupidity?
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 10:38AM|#
Didn't see this exact bit of coverage, but I did see several
other reports. Are you sure she was describing this guy? It's not
like he was the only one there who "wore a semiautomatic assault
rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip."
I mean, if we are gonna stick to the facts, it would be important
to know that one.
Mango Punch|8.20.09 @ 10:40AM|#
I'm not sure which member of N.W.A. spit this lyric, but it
seems poignent to the topic:
"And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop"
Fluffy|8.20.09 @ 10:44AM|#
Didn't see this exact bit of coverage, but I did see several
other reports. Are you sure she was describing this guy? It's not
like he was the only one there who "wore a semiautomatic assault
rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip."
I mean, if we are gonna stick to the facts, it would be important
to know that one.
Search for the clip on YouTube.
They cropped the image so it focused only on the guy's back, shirt
and the weapon itself. The voiceover talked about the scary specter
of armed white racists at rallies.
The report absolutely, positively did exactly what Jesse is
claiming it did. This guy had the most telegenic gun, you
see. So by the iron laws of television, they had to use
it. But his race didn't fit the story, so they made sure you
couldn't see he was black.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 10:46AM|#
Jesus, Neu. Did you even click on the link? If you look at the
footage, it's obvious that it was edited to show just the gun,
white shirt and no skin. Now check out the AZ Republic photo,
kindly posted at the top of this post, from the same meeting. It
surely seems to be the same gun, carried the same way, over the
same shirt.
You make the call, baby.
|8.20.09 @ 10:46AM|#
I just watched the linked video. The man in question has a rifle with at least some wood on top of the barrel and his pistol is in a nylon holster on his right hip. It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and pistol in leather holster on his left hip.
|8.20.09 @ 10:47AM|#
I'm sorry, it's racism if you oppose the administration, regardless of your race.
Sean Healy|8.20.09 @ 10:51AM|#
It is possible to carry firearms legally AND intend to intimidate people with them. It is also possible to be black AND white. I'm pretty sure some H&R commenters were fond of this ploy when our president was merely a candidate.
|8.20.09 @ 10:51AM|#
It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and
pistol in leather holster on his left hip.
Two men w/ the same shirt and slacks, and similar rifle/pistol show
up at the same rally, and it just so happens that they
1. Film the white one
and
2. Manage to never show any uncovered skin?
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 10:51AM|#
Rewatching the video, I now see that the weapon IS being carried
differently than the way it's being carried in the still. Calling
all gun nuts! Calling all gun nuts!!
What's the verdict? Same guy/weapon?
|8.20.09 @ 10:56AM|#
I don't think it's the same guy. I do, however, think it is the height of douchebagginess to craft such a sensationalist story from a non-event. John said the other day(I think it was John) that the msm is doing all sorts of these kinds of stories to be on the front end of the bragging rights if something actually does happen to Obama.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 10:59AM|#
Let's see...pants and shirt are similar, but the color seems
different. That doesn't solve it because of the issues of lighting
and what not...
Can't see the right hip of the man pictured above to determine if
brotherben's observations about the pistol solves the
question.
The rifle?
You decide.
|8.20.09 @ 11:00AM|#
I know that these fellas were well within their rights to carry
openly at these events. I think that in light of the atmosphere at
many town hall events that doing it is not particularly wise. It
makes it way too easy for your exercise of rights to become
ammunition for the scaredy cats on the left.
Just because it's legal for me to sit outside the funeral of a
soldier killed in Iraq with a sign reading "God Hates Fags" doesn't
mean it's a good idea.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:01AM|#
brotherben,
I concur.
Much ado about nothing.
Both the rally. And the outrage here about the reaction to the
rally.
Scott|8.20.09 @ 11:01AM|#
Mango - I believe that's Ice Cube on "Gangsta Gangsta."
Does anybody feel that now, more than ever, we truly are living in
a 1984-esque world where up is down? Where politicians who claimed
to support dissent then squash it? Where companies that are
bankrupt get bailed out and companies that make profits are
persecuted? Where the politicians and media constantly race-bait
and then call protesters racist? Or is it just me?
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 11:02AM|#
Amen, brotherb.
Still, I must admit it's a hoot watching the gun-phobes wet
themselves.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 11:03AM|#
Neu, you're just one cool cat. You should get a job with George Mitchell.
|8.20.09 @ 11:04AM|#
Looks awfully similar to me. I also wonder why they went so far
out of their way to not even show the guy's hands--the camera
jerked down once it got up that high.
What the fuck is wrong with the media? It's the guys controlling
the big guns we have to worry about, not some random armed citizen.
What is the point of reporting on politics at all if you're going
to pick a side and perform cheerleading when that side is in
power?
I think carrying a gun is pretty provocative, but I'm not sure I
think it's a totally bad idea. A few more administrations (and
Congresses) like the current and last one, and some of those
citizens will be firing those guns. We're getting awfully close to
a government without real limits. Maybe something like this will
make our "leaders" think long and hard about our tolerance for
tyranny. Even tyranny wrapped up in a nice baby blanket.
|8.20.09 @ 11:06AM|#
NM, I was calling the news people douchebags. The whole sniveling "bad economy, black man in the whitehouse, people are scared" tune is disgusting. I don't know anyone down here that is railing against Obama just because he's black. And I know some twisted cats.
PR|8.20.09 @ 11:08AM|#
the man in the video doesn't have a holster on his right hip and there is no wood shown.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 11:11AM|#
I don't know anyone down
here...
You're not in hell already, are you brotherb?
Mike M.|8.20.09 @ 11:12AM|#
I wish that liberal media weenies would learn that there is no such thing as a "semiautomatic assault rifle". They obviously have no idea how stupid they sound when using such a term.
Homer Simpson|8.20.09 @ 11:13AM|#
Facts are meaningless: You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts, shmacts.
Seward|8.20.09 @ 11:16AM|#
brotherben,
Wise or not, sometimes the exercise of rights is controversial and
that by itself is an important reason to exercise them. Flag
burning, ripping up draft cards, wearing provocative statements on
t-shirts, etc. all come to mind. Indeed, open carry is as much a
speech issue as is burning a flag IMHO.
Neu Mejican,
So is the reaction to the rally also much ado about nothing?
|8.20.09 @ 11:18AM|#
|8.20.09 @ 11:20AM|#
here is a video proving that it's the black man.
I stand corrected for my bad eyesight. Apologies.
PR|8.20.09 @ 11:22AM|#
I'll tell you the main reason it's the same guy. If it were some white guy, there would video and photos of him readily available.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:23AM|#
brotherben,
Much better.
Jesse should have done at least that much leg work.
<strike>strike through</strike|8.20.09 @ 11:26AM|#
Scott | August 20, 2009, 11:01am | #
Does anybody feel that now, more than ever, we truly are living in
a 1984-esque world where up is down?...Where the politicians and
media constantly race-bait and then call protesters racist? Or is
it just me?
Alice's Wonderland might be a better metaphor, Scott, and no, it
isn't just you.
|8.20.09 @ 11:27AM|#
That guy is awesome and that rifle is sweeeeet.
That's all I have to say about that.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:28AM|#
James Ard | August 20, 2009, 11:27am | #
PR's point makes legwork unnecessary.
Jesse's post is, essentially, a criticism of lazy
journalism...no?
<strike>strike through</strike|8.20.09 @ 11:28AM|#
there is no wood shown
A black man showing wood. Now that would be a threat!
Warty|8.20.09 @ 11:31AM|#
Only one gun pedant showed up to mention that there's no such thing as a semi-auto assault rifle. That's impressive.
|8.20.09 @ 11:32AM|#
When I challenge Schumer for his Senate seat I'm coming to you guys to get my gun facts straight so I can make him look like a dumbass.
PR|8.20.09 @ 11:33AM|#
Jesse should have done at least that much leg
work.
In spite of all his shiftlessness, at least Jesse didn't get it
backwards.
I think attributing this to laziness is generous.
Seward|8.20.09 @ 11:35AM|#
Neu Mejican,
There was nothing lazy about what Jesse Walker's comment. And it
really is more than issue of lazy journalism, isn't, it? Anyone
with half a brain can see that.
The Angry Optimist|8.20.09 @ 11:35AM|#
When I challenge Schumer for his Senate seat I'm coming to you guys to get my gun facts straight so I can make him look like a dumbass.
Yo, dawg, you don't need us for that. Chuck Schumer speaks
for himself.
Chuck Schumer's continued political tenure is indictment enough of
his constituents.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:35AM|#
Here's my point made more clearly.
Since the video shown and the words spoken were controlled by
different individual's and it is unclear if the speaker knew
whether or not the video shown was the same individual she was
referring to, we don't know for sure that she was at all aware of
the black man with the gun.
If she wasn't, that is because she's a lazy journalist. Lazy
journalism, whether on a blog posting (just linking to NB) or
editorializing about an event without knowing the facts, is worthy
of criticism.
But "the facts" are not always so easy to determine. Journalists
should work harder to establish them.
Of course, Jesse is not a journalist, per se, so he may get a
break. If your goal is to create a narrative that supports a
particular viewpoint, you will be less worried about the veracity
of a claim.
JB|8.20.09 @ 11:35AM|#
Contessa Brewer = stupid cunt.
Definitely a fetus in need of a medical procedure.
|8.20.09 @ 11:36AM|#
libertymike,
It's a strong statement that I'm not sure is entirely relevant or
helpful to this particular debate, except in the general
"Don't tread on me" sense, which I'm okay with.
I think it's good to freak out the establishment from time to time,
especially in a peaceful manner.
Oh, and yes, I think the idea that cops can carry guns and wield
them willy-nilly while common folk aren't supposed to is a little
contrary to a free society. Mike Vick got locked up for killing
dogs.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:37AM|#
The Angry Optimist | August 20, 2009, 11:34am | #
Neu, for Chrissakes just admit you were wrong.
Please identify the assertion you feel I made that was in error and
I will readily admit that I was wrong, if I was.
|8.20.09 @ 11:37AM|#
"A man at a pro-health care reform rally...wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip....there are questions about whether this has racial overtones....white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.
Hey Contessa, I have a news flash for you. People from all social
and ethnic backgrounds own firearms for a wide variety of
legitimate purposes.
I find it sad that there are those on both the left and the right
who still wish to play the race game. Why the hell do alleged
adults in the 21st goddam century still give a crap about how much
melanin is in a person's skin?
Sheesh!
The Angry Optimist|8.20.09 @ 11:38AM|#
you were wrong to question surety with which Mr. Walker wrote
the post. He was right; you were wrong for doubting.
Especially irritating is that this is what you feel like
dying on a hill about.
|8.20.09 @ 11:39AM|#
The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was
showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided
showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the
reporterette was complaining about white people.
Someone is lying.
|8.20.09 @ 11:39AM|#
J sub, I doubt the bitch has any real feelings on the issue. She is just following the script that has obviously been given to almost all of the "reporters" in the MSM.
|8.20.09 @ 11:40AM|#
I am a bit concerned that the news readers talking about the scary white people with guns apparently didn't think far enough ahead to see that the video they edited may show up uncut somewhere else. My IQ dropped a bit just thinking about it. (and I don't really have any extra to give)
The Angry Optimist|8.20.09 @ 11:40AM|#
In other words, Neu, you are implying that Mr. Walker was wrong to be so sure that Contessa Brown was either mistaken or lying - you want to go on about something? let's go on about this blatant lying for the sake of framing a narrative that this is all "angry white dudes" from a mainstream "news" channel.
<strike>strike through</strike|8.20.09 @ 11:41AM|#
JB | August 20, 2009, 11:35am | #
Contessa Brewer = stupid cunt.
MSNBC is the home of the super-cunts:
Contessa Brewer
Tamron Hall
Rachel (shiver) Maddow
Norah O'Donnell
Keith Olbermann
|8.20.09 @ 11:41AM|#
And what WILL happen when infinite computing power is meshed with infinite human stupidity?
Trust me. You're
not gonna like it.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:44AM|#
In other words, Neu, you are implying that Mr. Walker was
wrong to be so sure that Contessa Brown was either mistaken or
lying - you want to go on about something? let's go on about this
blatant lying for the sake of framing a narrative that this is all
"angry white dudes" from a mainstream "news" channel.
I was criticizing JW for not establishing whether she was mistaken
or lying...the interpretation that flows from those opposing facts
are different.
In other words, you claim of "blatant lying" rests on an
assumption, not a "fact."
The Angry Optimist|8.20.09 @ 11:45AM|#
Neu - yes. But not for the reasons you think.
If I were to "innocently" "question" "Isn't it possible that,
instead of institutional racism, black people really are more prone
to criminality as a result of genetics and/or breeding?" that would
make my agenda transparent.
you did the same kind of thing - you're missing the forest for the
pedantic trees.
The Angry Optimist|8.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#
In other words, you claim of "blatant lying" rests on an assumption, not a "fact."
Do you have a rational explanation as to why the film was
so heavily cropped?
you are right, I don't have her here to interrogate, but I can draw
commonsense inferences - this was a lie.
|8.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#
You're not in hell already, are you brotherb?
South Alabam. Close enough to smell the brimstone.
|8.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#
The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was
showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided
showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the
reporterette was complaining about white people.
So the people watching MSNBC were duped. Both of them.
phalkor|8.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#
I am currently in Wellesley, MA. I met several people last night
who honestly believe no one should own or want to own a firearm for
any personal reason, ever.
I am dumbfounded that such a sentiment exists and in some regions
is actually quite popular. but to them I'm just a crazy redneck
from Pennsyltucky. fascists.
<strike>strike through</strike|8.20.09 @ 11:48AM|#
James Ard | August 20, 2009, 11:39am | #
J sub, I doubt the bitch has any real feelings on the
issue.
Incorrect, James. She has repeatedly revealed her opinions on the
matter. MSNBC is as transparently biased as they claim their arch
enemy (FOX) to be. And yet FOX, somehow, has become the most
credible cable-news source available. How did that
happen?
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 11:50AM|#
TAO,
I think sage's post is the most scenario...but I doubt that the
video edit and the editorial comments were coordinated
intentionally. I think they were coincidental.
wingnutx|8.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#
The man in question has a rifle with at least some wood on
top of the barrel and his pistol is in a nylon holster on his right
hip. It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and
pistol in leather holster on his left hip.
That's not wood, it's the front cover of his Eotech sight
reflecting the light. It's not visible from the angle of the photo
at the top of this page. In the video you can't even see the stock
due to the zoom.
That's not a pistol on his right hip, it's his sling, where it's
attached to the rifle.
Look
at a screen capture
The rifle is a Bushmaster Carbon-15. Note the unusual absence of an
ejection port cover.
15% of the GDP and Everybody\'|8.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#
"There was nothing lazy about what Jesse Walker's comment. And
it really is more than issue of lazy journalism, isn't, it? Anyone
with half a brain can see that."
At least he's no a plagiarist like that Suderman fellow.
|8.20.09 @ 11:56AM|#
strike through, They may all believe it, my point
is that the storyline was generated in the White House and given to
the minions for release.
Jesse Walker|8.20.09 @ 11:58AM|#
All gun owners look alike to me.
(Seriously, I saw several photos and video clips of the guy, not
just the one I posted. I didn't think there was any question that
it was the same man.)
|8.20.09 @ 11:59AM|#
I think one of the problems with television news these days is the idea that everything has to have some sort of theme or "narrative." By thinking that way, journalists and editors bias the story and tend to twist facts (and images) to fit the narrative. That can be done for political purposes, but it can also be done to preserve other, less evident story lines.
|8.20.09 @ 11:59AM|#
Neu, your accidental scenario would work, had the video guy not gone to so much trouble to obscure any skin. Are you really that gullable?
15% of the GDP and Everybody\'|8.20.09 @ 12:03PM|#
Someone mentioned yesterday that neu mostly debates how things are said as opposed to anything substantive. Hmmmmm....
hmm|8.20.09 @ 12:10PM|#
1) Kudos for no "assault rifle" nonsense, but you have to assume
it's semi-auto. I can't see the trigger mechanism, who knows maybe
he has a class III and is toting a full auto or select fire. Why
does it matter? (knit picky, I know)
2) Every black man, gay man, and women should carry a gun, (this
isn't an evil white man statement)
3) Who gives a fuck what race the guy is?
4) If you're going to carry an AR15 for the love of god build
something better than that. If you are going to accessorize a
business outfit might as well do it right.
15% of the GDP and Everybody\'|8.20.09 @ 12:26PM|#
"South Alabam. Close enough to smell the brimstone."
That's not hell you're smelling. Just Port Sulphur, LA.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Neu the diplomat. See if you can figure out the shape of the table we should be discussing this at, can you, Neu?
Tony|8.20.09 @ 1:07PM|#
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative
radio stunt, don't you?
Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are
no racists.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 1:18PM|#
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged
conservative radio stunt, don't you?
So MSNBC was punked on their own petard? That's priceless!
|8.20.09 @ 1:18PM|#
Jesse,
You missed the best part. According to Althouse today one of the
comentators said leading into the clip
"I think we are going to see somebody, you know some sort of
Squeeky Fromme, some sort of MARK HINKLEY figure."
You know Mark Hinkley. That evil creation combined Mark David
Chapman and John Hinkley's DNA that Dick Cheney built in the
basement of the VP's residence.
Jesse Walker|8.20.09 @ 1:19PM|#
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged
conservative radio stunt, don't you?
It was "staged" only in the sense that any demonstration organized
in advance is "staged." And the radio host is a libertarian, not a
conservative.
Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there
are no racists.
No one said it did. It does cut against the idea that all the
opposition to Obama is driven by race hatred, though. And it
certainly cuts against the idea that the man in the shot was an
example of "white people showing up with guns."
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 1:19PM|#
And remember, boys and girls. The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no intelligent liberals.
|8.20.09 @ 1:20PM|#
So Tony they are now paying black people to show up at these things. What is that "Afro Turfing"?
|8.20.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Fair play to WGN, the first place I saw the story - their clip showed the entire guy.
wingnutx|8.20.09 @ 1:30PM|#
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged
conservative radio stunt, don't you?
He was part of a group from a local shooting BBS that
attended.
Community Organizing FTW!
|8.20.09 @ 1:33PM|#
I'm becoming more and more glad that I didn't vote for the Obama ticket. The Democrat base is stoopid. They keep pushing the theme of the resentful southern white racist. But society has changed a lot since then. American society just isn't segregated anymore. Everybody knows interracial couples. And as this guy with shows, a black man can join a right-wing millitia.
Tomcat1066|8.20.09 @ 1:33PM|#
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged
conservative radio stunt, don't you?
Who gives a flying fuck? He would obviously have had to LISTEN to
the conservative radio host, right? That means his ideology leans
in that direction already, and would probably have gone
anyways...he just brought his rifle with him based on the
"stunt".
And all the talk of "racial overtones....white people showing up
with guns" was shown to be bullshit, since it wasn't all white
people.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:37PM|#
Someone mentioned yesterday that neu mostly debates how
things are said as opposed to anything substantive.
Hmmmmm....
Sometimes there is a substantive point to made about the way things
are said.
Sometimes the substantive points discussed here are, well, pretty
unsubstantive.
This post seemed to be about the narrative.
The focus on this one man seems to attempt to restrict the
narrative to this one man.
Clearly the "white men with guns" narrative is worthless. The fact
that this commentator fell for it to the extent that she did not
even bother to find out the facts (that there were both black and
white gun owners at the rally) is probably worth a discussion. The
juxtaposition of the video with her comment is ironic, but does not
point to the type of deliberate manipulation that James Ard is
talking about. Jesse may or may not believe like James. He hasn't
contributed his perspective here.
Jesse,
I like the "all gun owners" quip.
Do you think she deliberately manipulated the video to help her
make a point?
Or do you think she's just cluelessly falling into the trap her
inner narrative set for her?
|8.20.09 @ 1:39PM|#
The Angry Optimist | August 20, 2009, 11:34am | #
Neu, for Chrissakes just admit you were wrong.
Someone's setting themselves up for a long wait.
Neu Mejican is never wrong.
He's smarter, more muscular, and has better breath than any
commenter here.
At least in his own head.
And he will remind you of that fact over and over again.
And you'll have to read it, as scrolling past a comment with a
blank line between every sentence takes forever.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:40PM|#
Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 12:32pm | #
Neu the diplomat. See if you can figure out the shape of the table
we should be discussing this at, can you, Neu?
For a virtual discussion, the table can conform to everyone's
personal ideal shape. ;^)
|8.20.09 @ 1:40PM|#
The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the reporterette was complaining about white people.
Having worked a few news studios in my life, I can tell you that
the anchors can see the video being aired because there is always a
monitor sitting next to the studio camera that shows what is going
out over the air. She knew exactly what was being shown.
|8.20.09 @ 1:40PM|#
"Everybody knows interracial couples. And as this guy with
shows, a black man can join a right-wing millitia."
The real shock to dumb ass liberals is coming. At some point there
is going to be a third party or the Republicans are going to find a
way to show black people that they really don't hate them. At that
point, guilty white liberals are going to get the shock of their
lives and find out that black people are socially conservative as
hell. I know a lot of black of black people. None of them are
Republicans. They are all Democrats. But none of them believe in
the welfare state and all of them believe in gun rights. Hell, a
few of them are more country than my biggest redneck relatives.
Guilty white liberals who have never lived in anything but
segregated progressive communities and never actually known a black
person head's are going to explode.
|8.20.09 @ 1:42PM|#
"Tony | August 20, 2009, 1:07pm | #
You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative
radio stunt, don't you?"
how many spontaneous protests have you ever been to? 4 or 5 people
pre-planning to protest an event is staged?
stupid!
"Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are
no racists."
yhe idiocy of this statement is stunning. i don't hear anyone
claiming "there are no racists". the discussion is whether the
media attempted to obfuscate the man's race in an attempt to fuel
the notion that race is even at issue. of course some people are
motivated by race. but is the entire movement motivated by it? well
i'm not; and i do not believe a majority are.
|8.20.09 @ 1:45PM|#
coverage that was more "honest" -
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
|8.20.09 @ 1:46PM|#
Neu Mejican | August 20, 2009, 1:42pm | #
Tulpa,
I am wrong all the time. What's you beef?
You're Wrong About That!!!!
|8.20.09 @ 1:47PM|#
NM,
Just to clarify, my "narrative" criticism wasn't purely directed at
leftist journalists. In fact, it's not solely limited to politics.
You see it frequently with local news and "My God, this regular
product you've used for the last fifty years will fucking KILL YOU
RIGHT NOW!"
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:47PM|#
Tulpa,
I
think
you
may
be
developing
an
unhealthy
obsession
with
my
posts.
|8.20.09 @ 1:48PM|#
NM,
Your post would've been more impressive if you'd nested each word
within a blockquote tag.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:50PM|#
Prolib,
I generally concur with the point. The level of the discussion on
cable news, in particular, has very little to do with providing the
facts about which a discussion can be held.
Olberman or Hannity...it's all the same and gets quite tiresome.
For me the first sign that you are being sucked into one of these
narratives is when a sentence starts with a phrase like...
"What liberals/conservatives don't realize is..."
|8.20.09 @ 1:51PM|#
Has there been a discussion on the over/under of when the
"racist" chants will be understood as crap by the general populace
and therefore will drop out of everyday usage by the MSM when
refering to critiques of the President?
I'm thinking not too bloody soon.
Jesse Walker|8.20.09 @ 1:52PM|#
Neu: I assume the host was following her own inner narrative. If anyone was being deceptive here, it would be whoever edited the video. (That's not an accusation -- there are perfectly inoffensive reasons why he, she, or they might have cut the clip off before the man's skin was visible.)
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:54PM|#
Prolib,
Your post would've been more impressive if you'd nested each word within a blockquote tag.
I
am
too
lazy
methinks
|8.20.09 @ 1:54PM|#
re: teh narrative
Black men with guns don't overthrow the government. They knock over
Korean-owned liquor stores.
Duh.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 1:57PM|#
ransom147 | August 20, 2009, 1:46pm | #
Neu Mejican | August 20, 2009, 1:42pm | #
Tulpa,
I am wrong all the time. What's you beef?
You're Wrong About That!!!!
I stand corrected.
|8.20.09 @ 2:01PM|#
That's why Gates invented cut and paste for his people.
I'm not keen on the blatant shills--Hannity is a good example on
the right, even more than Limbaugh. But at least they're
commentators, not news. Matthews and Olberman should've been fired
for openly taking sides (some folks at Fox may be on this list,
too). Either admit that your news service is totally biased or
really try to be as objective as you can be. Claiming objectivity
when you clearly have none is fatal to your network's credibility.
Well, it should be fatal.
|8.20.09 @ 2:04PM|#
"I'm not keen on the blatant shills--Hannity is a good example
on the right, even more than Limbaugh. But at least they're
commentators, not news. Matthews and Olberman should've been fired
for openly taking sides (some folks at Fox may be on this list,
too). Either admit that your news service is totally biased or
really try to be as objective as you can be. Claiming objectivity
when you clearly have none is fatal to your network's credibility.
Well, it should be fatal."
Exactly. It drives me nuts when liberals answer cases like this
with "what about Rush". What about him. He is a radio entertainer.
He never pretends to be anything but biased. That is his act. That
is not the same as being biased but claiming your are just
reporting the News.
Matthews should have been fired the day he said that he felt it was
his patriotic duty to do everything he could to help Obama succeed.
He really said that.
Fluffy|8.20.09 @ 2:13PM|#
Matthews and Olbermann are not doing news shows. They're commentators who do talk shows. There is essentially no difference between Hannity's show and Olbermann's show in principle. So it's kind of dumb to say that you're fine with what Hannity does, but that Olbermann should be fired.
|8.20.09 @ 2:14PM|#
A black man showing wood. Now that would be a
threat!
"Hang on a minute while I whip this
out".
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 2:15PM|#
I would say news shows on MSNBC and Fox both fail the "Claiming objectivity when you clearly have none" test more often than not.
|8.20.09 @ 2:21PM|#
Fluffy,
I believe both were doing news coverage of the election--not
opinion pieces but news--and got kicked out of doing that because
each exhibited biases too strong even for TV. In a sense, that
counters my point above, but it only means that there's a limit to
how open your bias can be. Having orgasms on air is apparently
right out.
In any case, I'm just tossing names out. There are few journalists
that don't fall prey to my "narrative" criticism. In TV especially,
the temptation to "tell a good story" is too great to worry about
facts or other perspectives.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 2:24PM|#
I believe both were doing news coverage of the election--not
opinion pieces but news--and got kicked out of doing that because
each exhibited biases too strong even for TV.
Hannity did as much, if not more, "news" coverage of the election,
iirc. Particularly during the conventions.
alan|8.20.09 @ 2:26PM|#
It's all about the narrative. Welcome to post
modern America America...
FTFY
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 2:26PM|#
Prolib,
But, I agree with you. The pressure to tell a good story comes out
the worst in science reporting. The important studies are not the
ones that make headlines. It is the ones that have a narrative
punch.
|8.20.09 @ 2:32PM|#
Science reporting. Those words shouldn't even be allowed to be
next to each other.
Like I said, Fox has a likely stable of sinners, too. I'm not being
evasive--I just don't watch TV news, well, at all. I think I might
watch the occasional rocket launch or terrorist attack on U.S. soil
on the news, but nothing else.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 2:46PM|#
Prolib,
Probably a good strategy.
I tend to watch to see what the narrative has become...but I don't
have much endurance, I admit.
I do, often, wonder how many of the regulars around here see Reason
and H&R as "objective news" rather than biased commentary. That
goes both for the staff and the comment boards.
The mission of Reason makes it clear that they are providing a
biased view; essentially providing persuasive discourse rather than
objective reporting. But I am not sure everyone gets that...I see
the same thing at HuffPo and similar places as well.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 2:52PM|#
I do, often, wonder how many of the regulars around here see
Reason and H&R as "objective news"
Ah. Now I get it. Neu thinks we're all retards.
|8.20.09 @ 2:56PM|#
Reason absolutely is biased, and I come here for that
bias. They're selling a world view. However, within the limits of
its free market and libertarian leanings, I think the magazine does
try hard to work with the facts at hand.
For general news, I go to any number of sources, usually multiple
ones. God bless the Intertubial Superhighway.
|8.20.09 @ 3:22PM|#
I remember a picture of Black Panther members holding shot guns....and it was an odd feeling..although i probably don't agree with many or most of the Black panthers stance on anything i did feel proud that these black Americans where carrying guns in the open.
hmm|8.20.09 @ 3:42PM|#
The panthers march in formation with rifles and shotguns as
recently as the early 2000s. Oddly no one seemed to care about that
I think it got maybe one half a news cycle, or one cycle
today.
For the record I openly admit and embrace my inner retard.
|8.20.09 @ 3:48PM|#
"I remember a picture of Black Panther members holding shot
guns....and it was an odd feeling..although i probably don't agree
with many or most of the Black panthers stance on anything i did
feel proud that these black Americans where carrying guns in the
open."
As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really care. At
most, it makes me think perhaps I need to get out of my lilly white
progressive liberal neighborhood and go back to my redneck roots. I
think the Panthers enjoy living and breathing a bit too much to
ever turn those shotguns and rifles on people in the wrong
neighborhood.
Spice Master|8.20.09 @ 3:48PM|#
This is the same woman who called out the AZ GOP for using. . .
a doctored photo that fit their agenda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4mIDFIy7b0
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 4:27PM|#
As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really
care.
Your side?
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 4:32PM|#
Not that John is a retard. Not at all. But you must admit he spells like one...
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 4:33PM|#
Defining the "other side" from the perspective of a black
panther.
The Ten Point Program was as follows:
1. We want power to determine the destiny of our black and oppressed communities' education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present day society.
2. We want completely free health care for all black and oppressed people.
3. We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people, other people of color, and all oppressed people inside the United States.
4. We want an immediate end to all wars of aggression.
5. We want full employment for our people.
6. We want an end to the robbery by the capitalists of our Black Community.
7. We want decent housing, fit for the shelter of human beings.
8. We want decent education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society.
9. We want freedom for all black and oppressed people now held in U. S. Federal, state, county, city and military prisons and jails. We want trials by a jury of peers for all persons charged with so-called crimes under the laws of this country.
10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and people's community control of modern technology.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 4:35PM|#
Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 4:31pm | #
Perhaps I own Neu an apology...
Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 4:32pm | #
Not that John is a retard. Not at all. But you must admit he spells
like one...
Whose law was that? Joe'z? I forget...so many rules around
here.
Citizen Nothing|8.20.09 @ 4:38PM|#
RC's law, I believe. (I spell like a retard too, but I usually
have editors to fix it.)
In other events concerning supposedly mixed-race presidents, some
Warren Harding news be breakin'. Somebody got their hands on the
sealed love-letters between Harding and Carrie Phillips. And
supposedly there are WWI spying implications.
Anyhow, the book with all the low-down will be released Sept. 1.
I'll be at the news conference and keep you posted.
Yes, I'm a history nerd.
|8.20.09 @ 4:38PM|#
The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no
intelligent liberals.
Indeed, some of them are quite clever little misanthropes.
-jcr
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 4:42PM|#
CN,
Isn't RC'z law that your spelling error will be more interesting
than the word you were trying to spell?
Joe'z was that you will make an error whenever you call someone
else stupid...
But maybe I am mis-remembering.
Yours might count as an example of both...
You own my apology, but are not willing to part with it? Or
something.
|8.20.09 @ 4:43PM|#
Now you're being evasive. I don't think anyone on this planet
views the BP as anything other than a leftist group. Their agenda
was certainly broader than militantly fighting racism.
By BP, I mean British Petroleum, of course.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 4:48PM|#
Pro lib,
Yeah, but you get to be the "other side" if you are...
1) a cop
2) a teacher
3) the government
4) a for profit doctor
5) a capitalist
6) non-oppressed
It seems a multitudinous beast.
Tomcat1066|8.20.09 @ 4:54PM|#
"Defining the "other side" from the perspective of a black
panther.
The Ten Point Program was as follows:
[SNIP]"
Basically, the other side is anyone who won't let them have that
stuff.
Glad to know I qualify :D
|8.20.09 @ 4:59PM|#
Say, point ten is pretty Marxist sounding. So are some of the
other points, but "people's community control of technology?" I no
likee.
I think I'm on the other side. Does that make me a racist?
|8.20.09 @ 5:06PM|#
"As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really
care.
Your side?"
I definitely on the other side from the panthers. They are a black
supremicist organization.
Lamarck\'s Giraffe|8.20.09 @ 5:09PM|#
First they came for Whole Foods, now they come for
Arizona?
Arthur Frommer (travel writer/tool) is personally boycotting the
state.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PHXBeat/60783
wingnutx|8.20.09 @ 5:14PM|#
Fuck Arthur Frommer.
Open carry has been relatively common here for decades.
|8.20.09 @ 5:25PM|#
az has no fear of boycotts w/ all the ca residents fleeing the hell hole they created...
|8.20.09 @ 5:26PM|#
wingnutx | August 20, 2009, 5:14pm | #
Fuck Arthur Frommer.
Open carry has been relatively common here for decades.
true, though it is fun to watch all the freaks in tucson shit their
pants when someone does it on scumtran...
|8.20.09 @ 5:30PM|#
I was previously unaware the DNC had adopted the Black Panther platform in toto.
Neu Mejican|8.20.09 @ 6:02PM|#
John,
I definitely on the other side from the panthers. They are a black
supremicist organization.
Thanks for clarifying.
So it is their racial stance that you place yourself in opposition
to...
While I think it is accurate to call them a "racist organization,"
I don't think it is accurate to call them "supremacist."
johnl|8.20.09 @ 6:54PM|#
A shame they went in for too tight a shot because the black man, white shirt, black gun is such a good picture. Do we know his name yet?
The Libertarian Guy|8.20.09 @ 8:20PM|#
"You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged
conservative radio stunt, don't you?
Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are
no racists."
Nobody with a brain would ever say "there are no racists". Someone
without a brain WOULD say that "only whites can be racist",
however.
As for your conspiracy theory above, I wonder if you think Joe the
Plumber was a "plant" who schemed and plotted to be in his own
neighborhood when Obama came by and got asked the uncomfortable
question that should have been a HUGE derailment of Obama's career
path.
|8.20.09 @ 8:45PM|#
She shouldn't have a job and she wouldn't it Jeffy Immelt's GE wasn't a diseased dirty socialist welfare whore.
|8.20.09 @ 9:07PM|#
It took careful editing to crop that video and the result is so tight that it ends up being a bad shot. A wider shot would always be wanted unless you are trying to hide the guy's skin. Unmistakable bias, someones head should roll if this is really a news organization. Of course we know it isn't.
twistedmuser|8.20.09 @ 9:20PM|#
You sure the whole thing wasn't a taping of The Office? He sure looks like the black guy from corporate that tried to take over.
|8.20.09 @ 9:21PM|#
If they ban blacks with guns, only whites? will have guns... Well, that doesn't work.
|8.20.09 @ 9:34PM|#
oh. wouldn't *if* Jeffy Immelt's GE wasn't a diseased dirty socialist welfare whore I mean. I know what Jeffy Immelt really likes to do with those squiggly bulbs but I'm not telling you.
|8.20.09 @ 10:19PM|#
Mystery solved!
Watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuRPEKlxk6c&feature=related
You will see the fellow with the rifle from the same side as we see
him in the MSNBC video. But in this one, we see his head, too. It
is definitely the same man, and MSNBC deliberately did not show his
head.
JB|8.20.09 @ 10:29PM|#
Frommer is a dickless bitch.
Hey Frommer, get the fuck out and move somewhere you will feel more
comfortable like Canada or France. Your kind isn't wanted here.
|8.20.09 @ 10:39PM|#
This appears to be equal opportunity open carry.
Also equal opportunity "menace!"
But only the white guy get MSNed.
Sounds like discrimination to me.
|8.20.09 @ 10:42PM|#
Both rifles have the same model EoTech sight.
Same shirt, same slacks, same model rifle, same model sights.
The odds they are not the same individual are incredibly
small.
Occams Razor=Same person.
|8.20.09 @ 10:47PM|#
Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean
there are no racists.
Wow. Who wudda thunk it? A black person is now considered
incontrovertible proof of white racism! Maybe the NAACP and
all-black colleges are secretly KKK redoubts. Pretty clever!
It takes some serious hallucinating (aided by massive amounts of
mind-altering drugs) in order to allow today's leftists to see
racists under each and every bed.
|8.20.09 @ 10:50PM|#
The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no
intelligent liberals.
Intelligent liberals, like moderate Republicans, are figments of
the state-run media's imagination.
JB|8.20.09 @ 10:53PM|#
Oh, Frommer please choose France so you can die in a heat wave you old fucker.
|8.20.09 @ 11:25PM|#
Contessa Brewer is a profoundly silly TV news reader and moron. She has proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt over the last year.
Tom Perkins|8.21.09 @ 6:37AM|#
"Do you think she deliberately manipulated the video to help her
make a point?
Or do you think she's just cluelessly falling into the trap her
inner narrative set for her?"
I don't think there are any meaningful distinctions between the two
concepts.
|8.21.09 @ 8:10AM|#
I was interested to note the gentleman pictured with his weapon did not suffer the same fate as Kenneth Gladney.
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