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Even Illegal Immigrants Don't Want to Live In California Anymore
You know that your state is in trouble when even illegal immigrants have stopped moving there.
Since 2006, illegal immigration to the United States seems to be leveling off, after a huge spike in the 1990s and early '00s. These days, we're holding steady at a crop-pickin', lawn-mowin', dish-washin' 11.9 million.
The immigrants who do come, according to today's Pew Daily Number, have been shifting to states other than the traditional California option. Since the state is in a spending binge, population bleed, and general downward spiral, you have to give the illegals credit for being forward looking.
More on illegal/undocumented/unauthorized/differently papered immigrants here.
|6.22.09 @ 5:25PM|#
Americans better wake up, because we are definitely going to get
financially overwhelmed with another BLANKET AMNESTY. E-Verify a
unique weapon against illegal immigration in the workplace, but
must be implemented permanently. It should be enforced for every
worker, no matter how long they have worked for any business? There
are hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals, working on all
rungs of the business ladder, without their immigration status
being scrutinized? Don't let the special interest lobby of
globalists and open border insane ideology steal American jobs.
They want as much cheap labor as they can cram into our nation, to
lower wages in their agenda. E-verify can and will identify foreign
labor and errors can be resolved by approaching your Social
Security Agency. Its certainly obvious Illegal aliens will stay
well away from this government office.
DEMAND E-VERIFY FROM YOUR INDIFFERENT SENATORS. JUST AS WE VOTED
THEM IN--THEY CAN BE THROWN OUT. STOP ANOTHER 20 million plus
illegal family Blanket AMNESTY before it's too late? REMEMBER
MILLIONS MORE WILL RUSH OUR BORDER, ONCE THE WORD GOES OUT OF
AMNESTY.
A resounding--NO--to any AMNESTY. Outside of this--NOTHING WILL
HAPPEN--EXCEPT ANOTHER PRE-ARRANGED AMNESTY, THAT TAXPAYERS WILL
GET THE BILL FOR IN INFINITY, IF WE DON'T SPEAK UP? READ ABOUT THE
IRREVERSIBLE OVERPOPULATION NIGHTMARE. Digest more of the facts and
unbiased truth at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIALWATCH,CAPSWEB, ALIPAC,
AMERICANPATROL. Find out undisclosed news and the numbers of
illegal aliens in the penal system at
THEDARKSIDEOFILLEGALIMMIGRATION & ILLEGALIMMIGRATIONDAILY. This
is information you need to understand remains hidden by the liberal
national press and the Congress.
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 5:26PM|#
that first map doesn't tell me anything. you mean the four states with the largest populations have the largest immigrant populations? No shit?
|6.22.09 @ 5:29PM|#
Brittanicus is not as entertaining as LoneSchmuck, and he posts walls of text. I'm giving him a C-, or maybe even a D+.
|6.22.09 @ 5:32PM|#
I find his sturm und drang refreshing. What he lacks in
skill and finesse he more than makes up in passion and zealousness.
Also, his lack of actual links or even URLs was a subtle twist on
the post-post-modern world of so-called web logging.
I give him a B-.
|6.22.09 @ 5:43PM|#
Brittanicus,
Have you asked the tough questions and posted the videos on
youtube?
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 5:43PM|#
Pro Lib,
Stupid people are usually zealous in their stupid ways. I see no
reason to give Brittanicus a step up because "He tried his best". I
would go with a D- because he didn't post links about the dangers
of HFCS or ask politicians questions and post them to youtube.
|6.22.09 @ 5:46PM|#
Also, his lack of actual links or even URLs was a subtle
twist on the post-post-modern world of so-called web
logging.
But how can we learn if we can't click?
Jonas|6.22.09 @ 5:47PM|#
Is no one else having a problem with the graphics covering up most of the text?
|6.22.09 @ 5:51PM|#
"I'm giving him a C-, or maybe even a D+."
and
"I give him a B-."
Could I raise my grade if I sent you each pics of me blowing
myself?
|6.22.09 @ 5:52PM|#
Only messed up with Internet Explorer. Looks OK in Firefox. That's OK though, cuz a picture is worth a thousand partially covered words.
|6.22.09 @ 5:53PM|#
ProL:
Wall of text = - 1 full grade point
ALL CAPS = - 1 full grade point
Being a huge douche = - 1 full grade point
Joining words together like LoneDope = + .5 grade point for irony,
even if unintentional
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 5:56PM|#
Epi, I'm confused. Since all trolls are huge douche's, how can that be part of the grade? Clearly you need to read over Queensbury Rules for trolling.
|6.22.09 @ 5:57PM|#
Episiarch,
You have no appreciation for the art.
Naga,
Ditto.
MikeP,
That's the point of his message.
|6.22.09 @ 6:00PM|#
Brittanicus gets a gentleman's C from this comment
professor.
Fuck, we let the damned Irish in, what's another influx of papist
scum really gonna hurt?
|6.22.09 @ 6:05PM|#
Since all trolls are huge douche's, how can that be part of
the grade?
Not true. I would have given Neil an A. See, when you're sincerely
a douche, you lose points. When you're faking douchebaggery, and
doing it well, you don't lose points.
You have no appreciation for the art.
My appreciation of trolling relates to yours like an appreciation
of Kandinsky relates to Warhol. I'm just that much above you, that
you can't even see me.
|6.22.09 @ 6:09PM|#
Has anyone else noticed the interesting choice of the Pew Reseach Center to use the dulcet hues of the Latina Maiden Sherwin-Williams color palette?
|6.22.09 @ 6:12PM|#
Juanita is too heavy-handed. B.
The higher grades go to trolls who are not serious (unlike,
seemingly, Brittanicus or LoneIdiot), yet can get people to
frequently--and seriously--argue with them because their statements
hit exactly the right nerves.
People will jump all over Juanita's statements, because they are
formed to be exactly the arguments of the worst drug warriors. So
that works, but Juanita has no personality, so the grade goes down.
Neil had personality and he said perfect TEAM RED stuff,
complete with bad punctuation/spelling and "lol"s. A.
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 6:22PM|#
I'm going with J sub D on this one and giving her an A. Sorry but no personality? How did she hook him then?
|6.22.09 @ 6:23PM|#
Maybe if I blew all the illegals in the country they would
leave.
However, I don't want to take jobs from American born
hookers.
These are the dilemmas you face when you stand up for your
country.
Something that no one in here would understand.
|6.22.09 @ 6:31PM|#
Maybe if I blew all the illegals in the country they would
leave.
Wait, what?
Do you bite or something?
|6.22.09 @ 6:39PM|#
Episiarch,
You're not even a Type I commenter. I'm a Type III, using the power
of an entire galaxy to post comments on this blog.
Say, why did Cesar leave, anyway? Everyone loved Neil. Surely the
ban hammer wasn't used? If it was, I'd like the ban lifted and
Cesar invited back. In fact, I think Cesar should be given a
triumphal procession at Hit & Run, with togas, chariots,
captured enemies in chains, and Episiarch whispering to him
reminders of his mortality.
BakedPenguin|6.22.09 @ 6:40PM|#
Epi, don't forget that in addition to all that, Neil had an
entire worldview. He wasn't just a one note wonder, like
Juanita, LW or Underzog. An entirely false system of beliefs based
on a set of completely fictional values. Also, a website set up to
express those phony values.
Now that was impressive trolling.
|6.22.09 @ 6:43PM|#
Wow, fascinating! California is such a dump that even uneducated
Third Worlders are fleeing from it along with native-born tax base.
Let's have completely open borders as advocated by Reason, so that
the rest of the US can look just like California! Makes sense. to
me.
Do you not understand that one of the reasons California is on a
"spending binge" is because the huge Hispanic population votes for
big spending liberal Democrats every time, and keeps putting
pressure on our "representatives" to give bigger and biggier
entitlement bennies to their illegal kin from south of the
border.
Democracy, welfare statism and open borders = the Third World
disaster that is California.
|6.22.09 @ 6:45PM|#
I like to think that Neil is still out there somewhere, faking out liberal nutjobs with his almost plausible mock-conservatism.
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 6:52PM|#
Correct MaryJ. That's why Europe is so socialist. To didn't keep out the Mexicans. Native voters driven by ideology aren't the blame for California's budget problems, just immigrants. Or would you rather I type IllegalMexicans?
|6.22.09 @ 6:55PM|#
Do you not understand that one of the reasons California is
on a "spending binge" is because the huge Hispanic population votes
for big spending liberal Democrats every time, and keeps putting
pressure on our "representatives" to give bigger and biggier
entitlement bennies to their illegal kin from south of the
border.
Only 15% of the voting population in California is Hispanic. 70% is
white.
Care to rephrase your rant?
24AheadDotCom|6.22.09 @ 7:01PM|#
Katherine Mangu-Ward writes: crop-pickin', lawn-mowin',
dish-washin'
Good thing she didn't say "cottin-pickin'", otherwise where she's
coming from would have been obvious to even more people. She also
fails to note that in addition to washing her dishes, they also do
other things such as provide a power base for the tax-lovin' Dems
and money-lovin' foreign governments. In fact, for a few countries,
the money their people send home make up a huge percentage of their
revenues. That's not good public policy.
P.S. If anyone would like to see some of the ways that Reason and
other hacks try to mislead you, see my list of
pro-amnesty immigration talking points. I believe all of those
have been used at various times by various Reason contributors in
an attempt to mislead you.
Lalalalove|6.22.09 @ 7:04PM|#
So really, all you xenophobes gotta do to scare away the brown scary migrants is tank your economies. Keep America pure.
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 7:06PM|#
Alright Chris Kelly, I'll bite:
In fact, for a few countries, the money their people send home make up a huge percentage of their revenues. That's not good public policy.
Why is that "not good public policy"? Isn't it true that the
revenue from products that Toyota manufactures and sells here goes
back to CEOs in Japan? Isn't it true that companies with foreign
headquarters frequently trade money for United States labor? So why
is it bad if the United States trades money for foreign labor?
|6.22.09 @ 7:08PM|#
In fact, I think Cesar should be given a triumphal
procession at Hit & Run, with togas, chariots, captured enemies
in chains, and Episiarch whispering to him reminders of his
mortality.
Speaking of which, the irony in a Buchananite rant from someone
adopting a pig Latin name for a country overrun by swarthy
Mediterraneans. I think that picks up 2 points for a C+
overall.
I unfortunately must deduct 2 points for the insult that I am not
smarter than an undocumented worker since I still live here on the
lower left coast. Even if true, I'm doing the grading and the troll
must suffer.
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 7:11PM|#
TAO! You're breaking protocol! You do NOT engage conversation with his LoneWackiness Chris Kelly!!! Don't make me lobby for your ban again.
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 7:13PM|#
oh come on, Naga! I doubt he has a decent answer anyway. After
all, if I make money here and send it to another country, where's
the harm in that?
As a matter of fact, that's a proud tradition of immigrants: go
forward, make your fortune, send the money back and eventually send
for the kids.
|6.22.09 @ 7:15PM|#
So why is it bad if the United States trades money for
foreign labor?
In the case of Mexico, this is what sustains the political economy
of that country - a system which is not very free and more than a
little corrupt. The U.S. is the great safety valve, letting the
ambitious earn more than they could at home (and ironically
repatriating those earnings) and keeping them from agitating for
political change. What more could the Mexican elite ask for?
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 7:17PM|#
great, juris, so it's win-win. Mexico gets rid of its "rabble"
and hurts its own interests in liberalizing and it gives us cheap,
ambitious labor.
My god. you're right...it's the Brown Apocalypse.
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 7:19PM|#
TAO/AR,
Assume that any insults/chiding I post is in jest. You will rarely
be wrong.
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 7:21PM|#
indeed, sir. I'll just assume that you're hammered on either sake or cab sauv.
Naga Sadow|6.22.09 @ 7:24PM|#
I'm mainly Merlot, actually. Sake? I rarely drink it. I just serve a lot of it.
|6.22.09 @ 7:27PM|#
TAO, I was looking at it more as what is bad for Mexico overall - not so much for the U.S. I've always been greatly amused at Buchanan - the descendent of some of the most maligned immigrants ever to set foot on this land. Likewise the Mexicans who cherish the saying about Mexico being so far from God and so close to the U.S.
JB|6.22.09 @ 7:27PM|#
Mexicans are so forward looking they not only ran Mexico into
the ground, but they helped with California as well.
I look forward to more articles demanding we import millions more
Mexicans so they can help run the rest of this country into the
ground.
|6.22.09 @ 7:31PM|#
Maybe if I blew all the illegals in the country they would
leave.
That only works if you bite.
The Angry Optimist|6.22.09 @ 7:32PM|#
JB - last time I checked, it was mostly native Americans (note:
white folks, not casino-types) who kept voting for big spending and
welfare programs and lobbied to keep banks afloat and to take over
GM.
So, it's funny that you blame Mexicans. One would almost think you
have something against them.
juris - sorry, I wasn't sure where you were coming from.
Mike Laursen|6.22.09 @ 7:53PM|#
REMEMBER MILLIONS MORE WILL RUSH OUR BORDER, ONCE THE WORD
GOES OUT OF AMNESTY.
Umm, my Caps Lock-challenged friend, Brit, the post was about how
they're doing the opposite of rushing our borders.
|6.22.09 @ 10:19PM|#
Did you ever wonder where the money for things like the
subversion of the world's immigration laws may come from?
It seems to me as long as we allow people to print up fiat money
there will ve no place in the world where freedom can
flourish.
If the Globalist oppose your efforts, paid for with real hard
earned money, all the have to do is fire up the presses and shovel
the money to any group that will oppose you.
Not only that but it seems they do it in such a way that the money
to achieve THEIR goals is borrowed from them. Then we pay interest
to a group outside of our country, like the Federal Reserve, on the
creation and borrowing of OUR OWN money.
IN ESSENCE THEY BEAT US WITH OUR OWN STICK!
|6.22.09 @ 10:20PM|#
I think they should uphold the rule of law and govern by the
rules set forth by the United States Constitution, as they swore
they would with their oaths of office.
Back in the sixties the government came into the schools and
brainwashed us with the idea we needed to control the population
because it was rising so fast. They said the roads would become
crowded and we would run out of things like water.
They unleashed abortions, birth control pills, and other forms of
Family Planning.
To allow the country to be over run with the criminals in
businesses illegal labor while the criminals in the government aid
and abet the invasion is a travesty against mankind.
They have seen to it our children were killed to control the
population at the same time allowing the world to export their
population problems here.
What about our sacrifices, many made against our will?
P.S. We still haven't recovered from the last time the criminals in
business were allowed to bring in their slaves.
Vizion|6.22.09 @ 10:29PM|#
Illegal immigrants are culpable (though not entirely) of the
poor condition California is in.
Allow me to preface I welcome all immigrants to be Americans as
long as they are educated, skilled, willing to assimilate, and most
importantly GO THROUGH THE LEGAL CHANNELS.
That said, let's take a look on negative effects of illegal
immigrants on California's achievement levels. Most of the the
millions of illegal aliens who invaded America are uneducated with
low-skills and unwilling to assimilate. How in the world is America
is going to be the forefront of advancement and maintain economic
superpower status when these people invade America by the millions
annually? If you want America to maintain it's high living
standards then you ought to be concerned
Illegal aliens are far less educated than the U.S. population as a
whole. A recent study http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/107.pdf
states that illegal alien adults between the ages of 25 and 64 are
disproportionately uneducated and unskilled when compared to U.S.
citizens or legal immigrants. Nearly 29% of illegal aliens in the
United States possess "less than a ninth-grade education; an
additional 18% have some high school education but have not
completed high school."This compares to 2% and 6% of U.S. citizens
in that age range who, respectively, have not reached the
ninth-grade level or the equivalent of a high school degree. That
means almost half of illegal aliens are high school dropouts.
Younger illegal aliens (ages 18 to 24) do not fare much better: 40%
of illegal aliens in that age group have not completed high school,
compared to 15% of legal immigrants and 8% of U.S. citizens in the
same age group.
Pew Hispanic study states that the fact that illegal aliens tend to
be unskilled and uneducated reveals why illegal alien adults are
also disproportionately represented among the poor. Pew found that
21% of illegal aliens inside the United States are considered
"poor" (compared to 13% of legal immigrant adults and 10% of U.S.
citizen adults). Additionally, illegal alien adults and their
U.S.-born children account for 11% of the total U.S. population
living below the poverty level, "twice their representation in the
total population."
Illegal aliens' "anchor children" are lowering our academic
achievement levels.
California ranks next to last in states where the adult population
has at least a high school education, according to a report
released by the California Faculty Association at Cal State Los
Angeles.
Ranking 49th out of 50 states is an indication of the state's
deteriorating educational status in recent decades, according to
"California at the Edge of a Cliff," by Thomas G. Mortenson, a
senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity
in Higher Education and publisher of the Postsecondary Education
Opportunity newsletter. He believes California is arrogantly riding
on its past; spending a lot of money and getting unsatisfactory
results.
Mortenson has just released a report on higher education, prepared
for the California Faculty Association
www.calfac.org/calattheedge.html. He said he was "stunned to see
how far and how fast California has fallen." In the share of adults
with a bachelor's degree, California was No. 1 or No. 2 from 1977
to 1987. Today the state is No. 14. As of 2007, California ranked
14th in the nation in terms of college educated members of the
workforce over 25 years of age "a big drop, a drop from 1987.
According to the report, Mortenson said:
"Other states have made greater gains in building a college
educated workforce and moved past California. California is
slipping toward educational and economic mediocrity among states on
this critical measure of state competitiveness, prosperity and
success."
The really bad news, however, is in the share of adults who are
high school graduates. In one generation, California has dropped
from the top to the bottom. The state was No.1 or No. 2 in this
category from 1977 to 1987; today California is No. 49.
Because non-English-speakers are so common in California - only
62.3 percent of California's children have parents who are fluent
in English, compared to the national average of 84.3 percent, it is
difficult to raise the averages for student potential for all
students, including children of US citizens.
A "Smartest State" designation is awarded based on 21 factors
chosen from Morgan Quitno's annual reference book, Education State
Rankings, 2006-2007. To calculate the Smartest State rankings,
there are 21 factors divided into two groups: those that are
"negative" for which a high ranking would be considered bad for a
state, and those that are "positive" for which a high ranking would
be considered good. States are assessed based on how they stack up
against the national average. The end result is that the farther
below the national average a state's education ranking is, the
lower (and less smart) it ranks. The farther above the national
average, the higher (and smarter) a state ranks. This same
methodology is used for our annual Healthiest State, Safest and
Most Dangerous State and Safest/Dangerous City Awards.
Where does California stand in these rankings - 47 out of 50
states? (Mississippi is 48th.)
The yearly rankings of state education standings shows that states
that allow in massive numbers of illegal aliens feel the effect
directly in their education system. The 2005-2006 findings reported
in a survey by Morgan Quitno Press, which looked at hundreds of
public school systems in all 50 states shows that out of the bottom
five states, 4 of them have massive numbers of illegal
aliens.
46. California
47. Nevada
48. New Mexico
49. Mississippi
50. Arizona
Moreover, they are less likely to have any post high school
degrees. "Nearly half (49.8%) of Asian Americans, nearly a third
(30%) of non-Hispanic Whites, 17.3% of non-Hispanic Blacks, and
just over a tenth (11.4%) of Hispanics or Latinos had a four-year
college degree. The same ethnic differences decrease significantly
at the high school level with 89.4% of non-Hispanic whites, 87.6%
of Asian Americans, 80.0% of African Americans, and only 57% of
Hispanics or Latinos having graduated from high school."
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf
Is it racist to want your country to have an highly educated
populace? America is inching towards a third world as long as
illegal aliens, mostly who come from and through Mexico, keep
coming.
Illegals drain on the economy is enormous in California and the
country as a whole.
A quick run down:
-- They are drying up our public school budget dollars. Breaking
the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the
Red notes that "The estimated costs of educating illegal aliens and
their children exceed 28.6 billion dollars in 2004 alone.
http://www.mnforsustain.org/immg_costs_of_educating_legal_illegals_fai
r.htm
-- "The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least
one major welfare program is 33 percent, compared to 19 percent for
native households."
http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/mexico.pdf
--Many hospitals in areas with a high concentration of illegal
immigrants in California have closed down because illegals are not
paying their bills (it costs a lot to deliver those "anchor
babies").
According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing their
doors as a direct result of the rising number of illegal aliens and
their non-reimbursed tax on the system.
"Anchor babies," the author writes, "born to illegal aliens
instantly qualify as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused
enormous rises in Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental
Security Income and Disability Income."
In addition, the report says, "many illegal aliens harbor fatal
diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago,
such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague,
polio, dengue, and Chagas disease."
While politicians often mention there are 43 million without health
insurance in this country, the report estimates that at least 25
percent of those are illegal immigrants. The figure could be as
high as 50 percent.
Not being insured does not mean they don't get medical care.
Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985,
hospitals are obligated to treat the uninsured without
reimbursement.
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
-- The average annual cost to house an inmate in California is
$35,587. Illegal immigrants comprise 15 percent -- roughly 26,000
inmates -- of the state's prison population.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Lawmaker-to-Feds-Pay-Californi
a-for-Illegal-Immigrants.html
The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in California's prisons
and jails amounts to about $1.4 billion a year (not including
related law enforcement and judicial expenditures or the monetary
costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).
-- Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in
California and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Californians
spend approximately $7.7 billion annually on education for illegal
immigrant children and for their U.S.-born siblings. Nearly 15
percent of the K-12 public school students in California are
children of illegal aliens.
The estimated cost of illegal immigrants in California alone and
their "anchor babies" is 10.5 billion dollars a year.
But they give a net contribution to the economy, right? Wrong. The
Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecen
tersf134 has a fairly recent article, The Estimated Cost of Illegal
Immigration, where the net number is put at $24.4 Billion. However
some experts say almost twice that much is being sent out of the
country.
In California, state and local taxes paid by the unauthorized
immigrant population go toward offsetting these costs, but they do
not come near to matching the expenses. Their main contribution
would be sales taxes but there is no way they can afford to be big
spenders.
24AheadDotCom|6.22.09 @ 11:18PM|#
Here's the editor of a Hispanic site discussing the - dare I say
it - anti-liberty scheme that libertarians try to force on
Mexico.
Here's a scary chart showing the GDP% for various countries due
to money sent there from their nationals.
For some very unhealthy numbers, here's the
percentage of several countries' population that lives in the
U.S.
Let me take this opportunity to add another item to the list of
things that "libertarians" support. Not only do they support giving
power to the far-left, and not only do they support massive
government handouts, and not only do they support MassiveSubsidies,
but they also support propping up corrupt, anti-liberty
governments.
wampus|6.22.09 @ 11:23PM|#
You can't have open borders without dismantling the welfare system. You just can't. It's not sustainable.
|6.22.09 @ 11:33PM|#
Vizion scores an RC'z law in the first two sentences.
And what is with the dugal dude, does LW actually have a
fanboy?
|6.22.09 @ 11:48PM|#
You can't have open borders without dismantling the welfare
system. You just can't. It's not sustainable.
Yet another reason to have open borders.
The Angry Optimist|6.23.09 @ 12:03AM|#
Oooh, Chris, you still haven't explained why it's a bad
thing to have money remitted to foreign nations.
Border hawks using fiscal conservatism to appeal to anti-immigrant
status is like liberals using the wars to appeal to fiscal
conservatives: superficially appealing, but smart people know you
have different motivations and agendas than your stated ones.
In other words, this nation has managed to rack up 12 trillion in
Government Debt and 57 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and you
wanna talk about Mexicans? I mean, incredible.
The Angry Optimist|6.23.09 @ 12:04AM|#
*anti-immigrant beliefs
I must have been thinking of something else at the time.
Mike Laursen|6.23.09 @ 12:46AM|#
In other words, this nation has managed to rack up 12
trillion in Government Debt and 57 trillion in unfunded
liabilities, and you wanna talk about Mexicans? I mean,
incredible.
Damn. Well said.
|6.23.09 @ 12:55AM|#
# wampus | June 22, 2009, 11:23pm | #
# You can't have open borders without
# dismantling the welfare system. You just
# can't. It's not sustainable.
I disagree. I think this is a canard deliberately employed by many
as a discussion-killer, and uncritically accepted by many more, to
the same effect. All you have to do is pass the appropriate
constitutional amendments at the State and Federal levels to deny
unearned benefits to people who are neither citizens nor accepted
into the naturalization program.
An "earned" benefit would be something for which you paid your
share of the full cost of provision via taxes or fees. An
"unearned" benefit would represent a net transfer of wealth from
the state to you. Immigrants and foreign visitors who did not fit
the "eligible recipient" profile would have to show documentation
of sufficient taxes or fees paid to transform a normally "unearned"
benefit into an "earned" one -- even simpler, they could pay the
necessary fee(s) upfront, at the point of service.
By the way, I'm not arguing that this setup, or any welfare-state
arrangement at all, is either sustainable or desirable. But if
people are bound and determined to maintain the honeypot of
entitlements, yet reluctant to allow any and all peaceful people to
cross our borders more or less at will, because of free-rider
fears, then a scheme such as I suggest here would eliminate the
free-rider problem without forcing others to prove their
citizenship or right-to-work/live in this country, as long as they
don't expect any "unearned" benefits. We could do something like
this if easing the stress on the safety net were our only, or even
our primary concern. But it isn't, obviously; that's just a
convenient excuse to neither do anything nor have a serious
discussion about what we MIGHT do.
|6.23.09 @ 12:56AM|#
According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing
their doors as a direct result of the rising number of illegal
aliens and their non-reimbursed tax on the system.
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
I'm betting you can't name one of those "84 California
hospitals".
After all, that Cosman paper is the biggest piece of trash in
support of anti-immigration positions that I have ever read. In
fact, the "reference" she gives for that statistic is a newspaper
article that does not even mention illegal immigrants.
Estimated Cost of Illegal Immigration, where the net number is
put at $24.4 Billion. However some experts say almost twice that
much is being sent out of the country.
As the length of the anti-immigration rant goes to infinity, the
probability it includes a bald-faced mercantilist fallacy
approaches one.
Mike Laursen|6.23.09 @ 12:59AM|#
According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing
their doors as a direct result of the rising number of illegal
aliens and their non-reimbursed tax on the system.
And I'm sure Cosman carefully controlled to make sure they weren't
counting hospitals that are having financial troubles because of
unfunded seismic upgrade mandates from the state of California?
The Angry Optimist|6.23.09 @ 1:20AM|#
I forgot that the slogan for us rational-types about immigration
was "I agree with MikeP"!
And what is with this lame Cosman study anyway? You shouldn't need
a "study" to demonstrate that a particular hospital is shutting
down because of services to the indigent. It's a simple matter of
opening the books and looking.
|6.23.09 @ 1:43AM|#
And I'm sure Cosman carefully controlled to make sure they
weren't counting hospitals that are having financial troubles
because of unfunded seismic upgrade mandates from the state of
California?
As a matter of fact, the supposed
source of Cosman's "84 California hospitals" does not mention
either illegal immigrants nor any number close to 84, but does
note:
Like other hospitals that have closed down, RFK Medical Center was hit by rising costs for nurses to fill state-mandated nurse-to-patient ratios that went into effect in January and the heavy expense of seismic retrofitting required by state law.
|6.23.09 @ 2:06AM|#
Some Guy | June 22, 2009, 5:31pm | #
Brittanicus, why are you against having these people pay
taxes?
Why would you believe someone has to be legal to be
required to pay
taxes?
"The IRS created a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification
Number in 1996 for foreigners who don't have Social Security
numbers but need to file taxes in the U.S."
"But it is increasingly used by undocumented workers to file
taxes, apply for credit, get bank accounts or even buy a
home".
Meanwhile, I'm quite sure that every 'undocumented citizen" in
America who has broken innumerable laws in their "freedom quest" is
nonetheless quite conscientious about each and every one of their
tax liabilities mandated by the various taxing agencies of our
multiple Gov'ts. (Did I keep a "poker face"?)
Don't worry! I'm sure the "property taxes" from 8 uneducated (16-24
yr old males) earning $8.00/hr while "hot-cotting" in a $600/month
two bedroom apt. will surely yield enough revenue to pay the
$14K/yr that the Columbus City Schools require for each child that
they father during the three years they work here before going
home...(not to mention the total of their total "city income taxes"
does not even pay for the 'per capita' costs of their use of "city
services".)
CPSD currently spends $14K/student/yr. More than 5 thousand
students - that's almost 10% of all students in the
Columbus(OH) City Schools- are the child of an "illegal" parent in
this fucking cowtown more than 2500 miles from the Mexican
border.
That's over $100K just to reach 8th grade for each of more
than 5 thousand students a year- before 40% of all the
"beaners" drop out sometime between 8th and 10th grade- not to
mention the 10% of the remaining 60% who cannot pass a "9th grade
skills test" to get a "real" diploma in 7 different attempts during
their 4 yrs of High School.
Mike Laursen|6.23.09 @ 2:27AM|#
...8 uneducated (16-24 yr old males) earning $8.00/hr while
"hot-cotting" in a $600/month two bedroom apt. will surely yield
enough revenue to pay the $14K/yr that the Columbus City Schools
require for each child that they father...
And you're sure that your hypothetical bunch of guys sleeping
eight-to-a-room are scoring great amounts of sexual activity with
womenfolk? Is it possible that it's a different group of guys who
are fathering children. Maybe ones that are a little higher up the
earning scale and have a little nicer domestic circumstances?
Peter Buxton|6.23.09 @ 3:03AM|#
I also find amusing the arguments that workers must be legal to pay income tax. After all, you don't get a pass on stealing gas while fleeing a murder charge... That's how they got Capone.
|6.23.09 @ 3:22AM|#
WOW! This is my first and last time to this site. Too many dumb@#$'s defending illegals. Man, if you people defending illegals think Mexico and Mexicans are so great, we Americans won't mind if you move there. Bye-bye
|6.23.09 @ 4:00AM|#
Brittanicus, you pig-ignorant little nazi puke.
If we sent all the Mexicans home, US agriculture would collapse.
There's also the fact that a lot of illegal immigrants pay taxes
and don't collect benefits. They're here to work; the welfare
leaches are US citizens, and major corporations.
-jcr
|6.23.09 @ 4:02AM|#
You can't have open borders without dismantling the welfare
system. You just can't. It's not sustainable.
The welfare system is a train wreck, with or without open
borders.
-jcr
|6.23.09 @ 5:05AM|#
Enough of the childish attacks on those against illegal aliens-calling them nazi's is a leftist tactic and all who do so should know better. Illegal immigration has many serious problems that transcend pure economic concerns. Try talking to someone who has lost a family member to murder or drunk-driving and get off your high horses.
Ed Lilly|6.23.09 @ 7:10AM|#
It's all part of Arnold's genius plan to deal with the illegal immigration issue. Make CA worse than Mexico & other Central American countries, and watch the population flow elsewhere. Brilliant!
|6.23.09 @ 7:27AM|#
An open border to the third world's poor, on the "path" to full
welfare "rights" and voter registration, gaurantees an ever
expanding welfare state.
So called "libertarians" who favor an open border are the useful
idiots of statism.
|6.23.09 @ 8:19AM|#
MikeP says 15% of Ca. voters are Hispanic and 70% are white. Old
figures. More like 18/62 but that isn't half the story.
State Senate and Assembly districts are apportioned by number of
"persons", not number of citizens.
The non Hispanic white percentage of the "persons" living in Ca. is
down to about 41%.
This should help you understand how Democrats with a historical
single digit advantage in voter registration have held about 65% of
seats in both bodies for most of the last 20 years or so.
|6.23.09 @ 8:54AM|#
A modest suggestion for California. Why not send liberals to the
statehouse in Sacramento and send conservative, state's rights,
limited govt people, maybe libertarians, to the federal govt? That
way you could seriously affect the balance of power for the better,
live as you want, not have to compete with the federal govt to
borrow, and give up the project of trying to make, say, Oklahoma or
Wyoming, liberal paradises?
Naaah!
Brett Stevens|6.23.09 @ 9:40AM|#
The only reason people support diversity is because the
"diverse" group votes for leftist/1789/1968/progressive
ideas.
I don't trust progressive ideas; I say use history as a form of
science, and build on what works.
After all, the world hasn't changed.
|6.23.09 @ 9:56AM|#
40 years ago when illegal immigration really started picking up
someone asked me why I cared about stopping illegal immigration. I
said, "Because if we don't stop them, they will keep coming when
living here is worse than living there."
It's now worse. Thanks members of the US Federal, State and Local
governments. Thanks for nothing.
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 10:28AM|#
Of course not. Now that they've wrecked California they'll move
on to another state.
From their point of view what they do makes sense. What is our
excuse for allowing it?
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 10:36AM|#
If we sent all the Mexicans home, US agriculture would
collapse.
What sort of faux free marketer are you? US agriculture would not
"collapse". Wages would rise, as they should in a free market
system, to reallocate the neccessary labor. And some agriculture
would be outsourced to places like Mexico, in accordance with the
concept of competive advantage.
There are a lot of lefties posing as libertarians on this
site.
There's also the fact that a lot of illegal immigrants pay
taxes and don't collect benefits.
They do collect benefits, you ignorant jackass. Benefits are not
tied to citizenship.
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 10:43AM|#
In other words, this nation has managed to rack up 12
trillion in Government Debt and 57 trillion in unfunded
liabilities, and you wanna talk about Mexicans?
What kind of statist nitwit is unable to understand the connection
between the two? What part of "illegal immigration shoves America
further to the left" is too difficult for you to understand? What
part of "making America a Latin American country means Latin
American politics and economics" do you need to have spelled out
for you?
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Only 15% of the voting population in California is Hispanic.
70% is white.
Care to rephrase your rant?
And there we have the deep, deep thoughts of the people who suck at
Koch's teat. This site is about as "libertarian" as the Daily Kos,
and contains as much critical thought.
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 10:54AM|#
Mexico gets rid of its "rabble" and hurts its own interests
in liberalizing and it gives us cheap, ambitious labor.
Yeah, if by "cheap, ambitious labor" you mean "tens of millions of
socialist voters who are a net drain on the economy", sure.
peter m|6.23.09 @ 10:57AM|#
CA has 12-15 % UE and jobs even for illegals have disappeared so
they will drift to other states with lower UE rates such as Texas.
The illegal alien problem persists and is kept under the rung by
the PC crowd, MSM and politicians. Only Nos. USA & FAIR are
keeping the issue alive as there are non-stop efforts by the
pro-amnesty crowd in Wash DC to get some sort of amnesty in place
this year.
The Politicians in Washington and the state Capitals respond only
to lobby pressures by large corp interests and loud/vocal pro
ilegal alien lobby groups such as LA Raza,Mecha and immigration
rights lawyers. The people need to rise up en mass and flood Wash
with angry calls and letters demanding strict enforcement and halt
any further immigration. The people only get aroused when they see
large demonstrations of ilegals marching on the streets. At other
times they ignore this issue while the illegals continue to despoil
America by bleeding it of welfare/medical benefits.
|6.23.09 @ 11:40AM|#
Don't worry about "illegal" "immigration" - that type of thing
has never, ever been a problem to any country in the history of the
world. Ever. Huge populations shifts are always easy to deal with.
Multi-cultural countries always are awesome! Always!!! That's why
Europe has such a peaceful history. And so does China for that
matter. And Asia. Countries where ethnic populations fight each
other for political control are GREAT places to live. I for one,
can't wait.
Rules are for suckers!
|6.23.09 @ 11:43AM|#
(And by Asia, I meant the rest of non-China Asia. I was so excited to be a smarty, I forgot to type what I was actually thinking)
Abner MacGillicuddy|6.23.09 @ 11:56AM|#
Well, Lonewhacko, Brett Stevens and Britannicus can get together for a circle jerk but what will they do when MaryJ shows up to join them?
jbubba76013|6.23.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Mikep,
Try 32/60 Hispanic/White. Care to rewrite your snark?
http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/News-Research/NewVoters/Ethnicity.html
|6.23.09 @ 1:01PM|#
Are those 32/60 voters? No. That is population as a whole. Those
are also old 2000 numbers. California is now less than 50%
white.
As for voters, from this August
2008 profile of Latino voters in California...
Latinos make up about 32% of California's adult population but only 15% of the registered voters most likely to turn out in elections. Asians similarly represent a smaller share of the state's likely voting population (6%) compared to their share of the adult population (13%), while blacks constitute 6% of both the state's adult population and likely voters. Although whites constitute less than half (47%) of the adult population in the state, 70% of California's likely voters are white.
JB|6.23.09 @ 1:08PM|#
TAO, are you making the claim that Mexicans have done a good job
running Mexico?
That would be fun to watch.
zoltan|6.23.09 @ 1:17PM|#
Try talking to someone who has lost a family member to
murder or drunk-driving and get off your high horses.
Uh, what the fuck is this supposed to be? I guess my perfect
state-government-run DPS has never produced a legally
licensed drunk driver? Or, oh wait, no legal citizen
of the U.S. has ever murdered another person? Get the fuck off your
own high horse if you think you're somehow special because a loved
one got killed by one of the eeeevil illegals instead of a real
citizen.
|6.23.09 @ 1:50PM|#
"I'm a statist if I'm for open borders? Huh."
Try googling up George Orwell's convincing argument that pacifists
in a liberal democracy during a time when totalitarians are on the
march are effectively totalitarians. It was true of them, and it is
true of you.
Naga Sadow|6.23.09 @ 1:54PM|#
Wow! Now I'm a pacifist! I should go out and kill some immigrants since we're at war with em. For the good of . . . democracy? Peace? What exactly? Besides you're fear of culture shock?
ZZMike|6.23.09 @ 3:28PM|#
Surely this decline in illegal immigration is simply because our brave and dutiful Border Patrol agents have been working round the clock to stem the tide.
Mike Laursen|6.23.09 @ 3:29PM|#
What kind of statist nitwit is unable to understand the
connection between the two?
Please explain again how the Mexicans are responsible for the debt
from middle-class entitlements like Medicare and Social Security,
the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the corporate bailouts.
|6.23.09 @ 3:43PM|#
MikeP;
You missed the point of my post. State legislators are not elected
"at large", but from districts apportion by number of
"persons".
So an "immigrant" district in East L.A. with 50,000 eligible voters
controls the same percentage of the legislature as does an Orange
County district with 250,000 eligible voters.
In the above example each vote in the first district counts as much
as five votes in the second.
In the case of the Assembly and Senate the statewide PERSONS
demographics are determinant, statwide VOTER demogaphics are
irrelevent.
Get it?
|6.23.09 @ 3:53PM|#
moptop;
I agree with Orwell, but you have your analogy ass backwards.
Americans who defend a never ending flow of poor, uneducated ready
made welfare eligible immigrants serve the welfare state in exaxtly
the same way the European pacifists served the totalitarians.
Mike DeSoto|6.23.09 @ 4:05PM|#
Please explain again how the Mexicans are responsible for
the debt from middle-class entitlements like Medicare and Social
Security, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the corporate
bailouts.
Please pay some attenton to the discussion you are havng with
Raoul.
And please try to be aware that many of the actions of the GOP
these last dozen years have been aimed at winning the votes of the
emerging Hispanic majority.
While you're at it, you could take the trouble to learn some
demographic data. For instance, you might discover that Hispanic
Republicans are more in favor of larger government than are white
Democrats.
Mike eSoto|6.23.09 @ 4:12PM|#
I'm a statist if I'm for open borders?
Yes, you are. Being "for" open borders means you are "for" flooding
America with the sort of people who consider the Democratic Party
to be overly in favor of resticted government.
If you clowns could pull your heads out of "Atlas" and pay a little
attention to the demographic data, this would be obvious to
you.
How stupid do you have to be to think that ALMO voters from Mexico
will come to America and start reading Mises? As stupid as the
average cell in the Kochtopus, it would seem.
|6.23.09 @ 4:39PM|#
MikeP;
I've never posted anywhere as jbubba whatever, only posted here as
Raoul.
If you got my point why go on about percent of "voters"?
Legislative districts are determined by # of PERSONS.
41% of Ca. "persons" are white. That explains why socialist Dems
control 60%+ of the seats in both houses. The WELFARE STATE PARTY
gets the votes of the social welfare dependent.
Pretty simple.
|6.23.09 @ 5:25PM|#
If you got my point why go on about percent of
"voters"?
Because I was responding to jbubba76013, who didn't even have that
base fact right.
|6.23.09 @ 7:01PM|#
41% of Ca. "persons" are white. That explains why socialist
Dems control 60%+ of the seats in both houses.
No it doesn't. The fact that 44% of the state's voters are
registered Democratic and 33% percent are registered Republican is
quite enough.
I will defer to your expertise in the politics of LA County. But
living up here in northern California and watching what comes out
of Sacramento, it is very clear where California's Democratic power
base and agenda come from. And it's not Hispanics.
|6.23.09 @ 8:05PM|#
Hmm, maybe I'll start thinking about moving back to CA, the illegal problem is one of the reasons I left, and now Charlotte is starting to look like CA. Just in the last couple of months our apartment complex has been inundated with illegals. Many of the un or under employed people here in the apartment complex are getting very steamed to say the least. These illegals have shown up and immediately are working. One of my neighbors was laid off because of the economy, he later talked to his former foreman who told him that they had hired illegals to take the place of the employees they had laid off. So we fathers get to stand at the school bus stop with our kids and plan our fruitless work searches while watching the illegals going off to work. Nice, eh?
RAOUL|6.23.09 @ 8:40PM|#
MikeP.
You think a 12 point advantage in registration explains a 65/35
split in both houses of the legislature?
G.W. Bush ruined the GOP but a few years ago when the Dem advantage
in voter reg was 3%-4%, the dems still controlled 60% of the
Assembly and Senate.
It isn't "Hispanics" per say. it's millions of third world welfare
dependent poor, most of whom happen to be Hispanic. In Ca.
"Hispanic" is spelled M-E-X-I-C-A-N.
In 1980 and 1984 Ronald Reagan not only won Ca. in two landslides,
he won L.A. County twice. That couldn't happen now or in a million
years. What do you imagine happened? You think we all dropped acid
and went insane? Or is it do to a massive change in demographics
from middle class natural born Americans to welfare dependent
immigrants from the corrupt and dysfunctional third world?
Mike Laursen|6.24.09 @ 2:31AM|#
Please pay some attenton to the discussion you are havng
with Raoul.
I'm having a discussion with Raoul? Are you getting your Mikes
confused? That would be funny because you are a Mike.
Mike Laursen|6.24.09 @ 2:36AM|#
If you clowns could pull your heads out of
"Atlas"...
Sorry, you've got the wrong crowd.
|6.24.09 @ 3:09AM|#
All I ask of immigrants is come in the front door and have a desire to assimilate. Most immigrants I know are very adamant about their childrens education, my main beef is multiculturalists encouraging everyone to cling to their pasts. You came here to do it bigger and better damnit be an American.
The Angry Optimist|6.24.09 @ 4:50AM|#
question for the Mexican-haters:
if it's permissible to build walls and staff them with troops to
keep out "socialist-Democrat, uneducated Mexicans", should say, New
York be able to do the same thing with (statistically speaking,
that is) ignorant Mississippians? why or why not?
|6.24.09 @ 5:41AM|#
Every illegal alien working in construction, manufacturing,
service industries, etc. is using a fraudulent SSN and filed a
fraudulent I-9, W-4, etc. In other words 8.5 million illegal aliens
are committing ID fraud.
They may be using your SSN or your child's SSN. So what harm does
that do??? The IRS will come looking for you asking why you are
filing two tax returns or they will want to know why you didn't
report all the income you made. Don't forget that your income will
now include the illegal aliens earnings, so you will be responsible
for paying any taxes he owes. Many illegals file tax returns for
the sole purpose of claiming Earned Income Credit (EIC), so you can
expect the IRS to question that as well.
Those who have come here illegally, steal our IDs and ignore our
laws have already demonstrated they lack the honesty and decency to
ever become American citizens.
|6.24.09 @ 9:04AM|#
Those who have come here illegally, steal our IDs and ignore
our laws have already demonstrated they lack the honesty and
decency to ever become American citizens.
Those who have passed legislation that prohibits people from
exercising their inalienable rights of travel, residence, and labor
have already demonstrated they lack the principles and decency to
ever become American congressmen.
That further legislation then subverts any attempt by those
exercising their rights to use ITIN's and other mechanisms to be as
legal as they can be under the circumstances -- collaterally
harming citizens in the process -- just proves that the congressmen
are incompetent as well.
adina|6.29.09 @ 4:39PM|#
Paul P, Would you agree that the identity theft problem stems from the useless requirement that everyone list their social security number in order to work?
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